Coaches roundabout season

[ledge]

Was listening to SEN this morning about coaches and who is going and who isnt, who should be etc.
Wondering what peoples thoughts are on coaches this year and maybe we could grade them and post comments on each one.
Will start with,
Melbourne and Bailey, now he is a strange one to gauge, with all the board movements, young and old players this year, you cant really say if he is good or bad, would have to give him another year and see if any improvement.

West Coast an interesting one also, players obviously arent happy the last couple of years and Worsfold isnt getting anywhere near what he should be out of them.
You might be a premiership captain but it only wears for so long, he is getting closer to the end i believe.
Other comments on other coaches anyone?

[bornadog]

Even though the Magpies have made the finals, if they go out in straight sets then Collingwood needs to think about a succession plan. I bet Buckley is waiting for Mick to resign. I feel Malthouse is getting stale at Collingwood, but may be a good candidate for the GC17 team.

[ledge]

Problem at Magpies is i believe Eddie said years ago, as long as i am here Malthouse will be.
Collingwood also finish above expectations every year and dont get real good draft picks.
We all know that Mick likes robots and not players who back there abillity, eventually it wears thin with players who like to do the flash bit, eg Didak, Hardie... probably one more year.
Bornadog i cant believe coaches arent screaming to get to GC17 with all the advantages they are getting, hope its a dud draft that year.

[ledge]

Knights at Essendon, didnt he promise to get them in finals this year, thats why he got job?
They fell away badly and from all reports he ran them all silly and they all got soft tissue injuries, does he really know what he is doing?

[bornadog]

Knights at Essendon, didnt he promise to get them in finals this year, thats why he got job?
They fell away badly and from all reports he ran them all silly and they all got soft tissue injuries, does he really know what he is doing?

I don't believe Knights was the one that said that, it was the other candidate, a name that slips my mind. Knights was talking of 5 year plans:D

[bornadog]

i cant believe coaches arent screaming to get to GC17 with all the advantages they are getting, hope its a dud draft that year.

Would suit an established coach that wants to retire eventually up there, a Matthews, Malthouse, Eade who are all over 50 years old.

In fact, I have thought that eventually Eade would go for the role as he has been up there before as a player and assistant (I think).

[Mofra]

Problem at Magpies is i believe Eddie said years ago, as long as i am here Malthouse will be.

Didn't he also say that Matthews had a "job for life" after the 1990 GF?

[bornadog]

Didn't he also say that Matthews had a "job for life" after the 1990 GF?

Eddie only took over in 1998

[The Underdog]

I don't believe Knights was the one that said that, it was the other candidate, a name that slips my mind. Knights was talking of 5 year plans:D

Damien Hardwick told the board what he thought was realistic, that they needed to start building the list to be a finals competitor in a couple of years. Knights told them they could make the finals while refurbishing the list. Knights got the job.

I can't see any other coaches going. Bailey had a tough year but the last thing Melbourne need is to pay out a coach, even one on lesser money. He deserves the chance to follow through next year, although Melbourne's list needs some serious work. Unless Wallace gets outed by March I can't see him going and every one else is either safe or too new to be sacked.

[Bulldog Revolution]

the Assistant Coaches are interesting also:

Peter German and Robert Shaw leave Freo - both returning to Melbourne

Philip Walsh leaving Port

Guy McKenna leaving C'Wood and heading to GC

Who will Voss recruit?

[bornadog]

Damien Hardwick told the board what he thought was realistic, that they needed to start building the list to be a finals competitor in a couple of years. Knights told them they could make the finals while refurbishing the list. Knights got the job.

I can't see any other coaches going. Bailey had a tough year but the last thing Melbourne need is to pay out a coach, even one on lesser money. He deserves the chance to follow through next year, although Melbourne's list needs some serious work. Unless Wallace gets outed by March I can't see him going and every one else is either safe or too new to be sacked.

Ah, I got that the wrong way. I believe you are right.

[bornadog]

the Assistant Coaches are interesting also:

Peter German and Robert Shaw leave Freo - both returning to Melbourne

Philip Walsh leaving Port

Guy McKenna leaving C'Wood and heading to GC

Who will Voss recruit?

Also West Coast looking for assistants. Richmond will most likely make changes at a minimum the assistants.

[ledge]

How long has Wallace got with March giving him a hardtime already, I mean what club doesnt give the coach a say in recruiting, rumour i heard was they are at loggerheads about Cousins.

[Happy Days]

How long has Wallace got with March giving him a hardtime already, I mean what club doesnt give the coach a say in recruiting, rumour i heard was they are at loggerheads about Cousins.


One would assume they are at loggerheads over the consistent under-achievement that the tiges have gone through under Wallace.

[Super 27]

the Assistant Coaches are interesting also:

Peter German and Robert Shaw leave Freo - both returning to Melbourne

Philip Walsh leaving Port

Guy McKenna leaving C'Wood and heading to GC

Who will Voss recruit?

I reckon Voss will try and get premiership team mate in Brad Scott. Was on the short list for the GC17 job and has learnt a bit from Malthouse at C'wood.

[GetDimmaBack]

One would assume they are at loggerheads over the consistent under-achievement that the tiges have gone through under Wallace.

Very big rumour over on the Tigers' Bigfooty board that TW will quit tomorrow...the jungle drums are beating!

[ledge]

Well we all know Wallace, loves the sun, up to QLD maybe??

[ledge]

Thought i would open this up again,
I am certain a, if not more coaches will get sacked this year.
I think Wallets a certainty and Harvey not far behind, rumblings at Essendon also.

[westdog54]

Contract status aside, here's my 1 minute breakdown:

Neil Craig: Should be gone if Adelaide finish outside the 8 this year. He's got what I think is a damn handy list at his disposal but they've underachieved in recent years. Had the Eagles on toast in the 2006 PF and let it slip, have gone backwards at a rate of knots since. The jungle drums don't beat any louder than they do in Adelaide.

Michael Voss: Safe as houses, first year coach and favourite son. Not going anywhere fast.

Brett Ratten: Safe as it is, even safer should the Blues make the 8, which I think they will.

Mick Malthouse: Will depend on the Pies finishing spot, but I can't see him coaching Collingwood this year. I can Mick falling on his sword if the Pies miss the 8.

Matthew Knights: Would want an improvement on last year if he's to be a realistic chance of keeping his job.

Mark Harvey: See above.

Mark Thompson: Won't get sacked, but will he stay? Watch this space.

Alistair Clarkson: Has a coach ever won the flag and been sacked the next year? Can't see him going anywhere with that list at his disposal.

Dean Bailey: Needs time to build a list. Would be harsh to be sacked.

Dean Laidley: Not sure that he's achieved his potential but safe.

Mark Williams: One way or another he'll leave Alberton within the next 15 months.

Terry Wallace: Gone if Richmond miss the 8. Can't be any clearer than that.

Ross Lyon: Not sure if he's the man to lead the saints to a flag, but he's doing a reasonable job at the moment.

Paul Roos: Last night told me he's 'still got it', but I've been worried recently that he might be getting a bit stale.

John Worsfold: Don't know what to make of Woosha. Last year he struck me as a man running out of ideas. I think a premiership will be his saving grace for a while, but he'd want to get the Eagles back up the ladder and fast.

Rodney Eade: Please please please Rodney, stay until we've won the flag. Then next year you can do whatver you want.;)

[azabob]

Contract status aside, here's my 1 minute breakdown:

Neil Craig: Should be gone if Adelaide finish outside the 8 this year. He's got what I think is a damn handy list at his disposal but they've underachieved in recent years. Had the Eagles on toast in the 2006 PF and let it slip, have gone backwards at a rate of knots since. The jungle drums don't beat any louder than they do in Adelaide.


Not sure I agree that if they miss the 8 he should go. The Crows are slowly rebuilding without dropping down the ladder. Younger players are in the team and spending more time in the middle.

[ledge]

Ross Lyon is going about building a side taking players who werent good enough at other clubs, as does Wallace, some players you see on a list and just know they wont win a flag with them.
Lyon i think is ok coach but is not choosing the upper players and accepting mediocre players.

[Happy Days]

Not sure I agree that if they miss the 8 he should go. The Crows are slowly rebuilding without dropping down the ladder. Younger players are in the team and spending more time in the middle.

But is this really setting them up for anything other than a period of being there-or-there abouts?

Mid-range first round picks get you nowhere...just ask Richmond ;)

[azabob]

But is this really setting them up for anything other than a period of being there-or-there abouts?

Mid-range first round picks get you nowhere...just ask Richmond ;)

Only time will tell. Geelong had mid range picks and have done ok.

[LostDoggy]

Terry Wallace: Gone if Richmond miss the 8. Can't be any clearer than that.


This is correct, but probably under-stating it. I think Wallet is gone if he has another 1 or 2 bad losses and the ferals down at Tigerland start tearing the seats up.

[ledge]

Only time will tell. Geelong had mid range picks and have done ok.

Geelong were very lucky, they had great players they picked up through the father son rule, hopefully we get that with some of the son of a guns coming through while we are at the higher end of the ladder.

[azabob]

Geelong were very lucky, they had great players they picked up through the father son rule, hopefully we get that with some of the son of a guns coming through while we are at the higher end of the ladder.

Very good point. That slipped my mind...

[hujsh]

Geelong were very lucky, they had great players they picked up through the father son rule, hopefully we get that with some of the son of a guns coming through while we are at the higher end of the ladder.

They still drafted well. Scarlett and Ablett were great pickups but there is more to that team and Ablett may not have become the gun he is at other clubs

[alwaysadog]

Didn't he also say that Matthews had a "job for life" after the 1990 GF?

Previous Pressie McAllister was the culprit I think.

[The Coon Dog]

I have a feeling Mark Harvey would be looking over his shoulder right now. Time for Chris Bond perhaps?

[The Pie Man]

I have a feeling Mark Harvey would be looking over his shoulder right now. Time for Chris Bond perhaps?

I'm really drty on Freo after tipping them this week, and then getting a goal up in the last qtr only watch Rhys Palmer butcher a shot for 12 mtrs out almost in front and hand Adelaide the momentum.

Harvey has repeatedly stated that Freo are rebuilding over the pre-season, likely in an attempt to take pressure away from what he anticipated were early season losses. I think the Freo board will likely see through all that and I tend to agree with you TCD, he's in huge trouble. Chris Bond would be worth a chance.

[The Pie Man]

Damien Hardwick told the board what he thought was realistic, that they needed to start building the list to be a finals competitor in a couple of years. Knights told them they could make the finals while refurbishing the list. Knights got the job.
I can't see any other coaches going. Bailey had a tough year but the last thing Melbourne need is to pay out a coach, even one on lesser money. He deserves the chance to follow through next year, although Melbourne's list needs some serious work. Unless Wallace gets outed by March I can't see him going and every one else is either safe or too new to be sacked.

Astonishing really. If true (which I suspect i is as I've heard this before) he clearly got the job through false advertising. Even before half way through last season he carried on about Essendon being in a rebuilding phase....which is/was true....but Hardwick must've heard that and thought 'WTF?'

Maybe they were keen to get a non-Essendon man in. Good win on Saturday, but they would want to build on that for Knights to be safe. Skipworth played ok as well, but you hear rumblings about his use in the team (not sure what that's about)

[The Coon Dog]

Puzzling times for coaches (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/puzzling-times-for-coaches/2009/04/23/1240079801817.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2)

Robert Walls - April 24, 2009

http://www.realfooty.com.au/ffximage/2009/04/24/aaPuzzle,0.jpg

COACHES at AFL level have an extremely high profile. We all (fans, club boards, media) fall in and out of love too quickly with them.

This season, seven coaches entered the field of battle with contracts that come to an end in September. Some will be offered extended tenure, some won't. And some contracted beyond 2009 may have their services terminated.

Young coaches in the making, such as Nathan Buckley, are putting their hands up to say they are ready to go in 2010. Old ones, such as Denis Pagan, say they will readily roll up the sleeves again if called upon.

For some, coaching is a drug. They just can't let go of the whiteboard and whistle. Realistically, most coaches are only a bad month away from having their position questioned — just ask Richmond's Terry Wallace.

The next to feel the heat will be Fremantle's Mark Harvey. The speculation and intrigue never stops.

So while the coaching jigsaw puzzle for 2010 is far from complete, some pieces can be glued to the board with a fair degree of certainty. A look at each club tells us this.

ADELAIDE
Neil Craig is safe in the city of churches. They love him, and he loves them. He won't coach elsewhere. Last week, he broke a club record when he coached his 108th game for the Crows. With a 62 per cent success rate, his position is ensured.

BRISBANE LIONS
Michael Voss is the youngest and one of the most secure coaches in the business. He will be given time and resources to rebuild the Lions after four seasons out of finals football under former coach Leigh Matthews. His leading assistant, though, Justin Leppitsch would be well advised to head south to gain experience at another club if he wants to enhance his senior prospects.

CARLTON
Brett Ratten is the man for the moment with a developing, young Carlton outfit. Two years from now when the Blues should be top-four material is when Ratten will have to prove that he has what it takes to lead them to a flag. If not, a change will be needed.

COLLINGWOOD
It has been and will be a tough year for the veteran Mick Malthouse. Now in year 10 at Collingwood, with a 50 per cent success rate, his contract is soon to expire.

Interestingly, the coach has put himself out there. He has appeared on more football shows in a month than he usually does in a year. And he has stated that if Collingwood doesn't contract him, he will coach elsewhere. By getting on the front foot he has put the heat on the Pies, who are seriously considering favourite son Buckley for the role. It is safe to say that one or the other will coach Collingwood next year.

ESSENDON
The Bombers will give Matthew Knights a third season. They are realistic and know he must be given time with a young group.

FREMANTLE
Mark Harvey is contracted beyond this season, but he knows the heat is on. His success rate with the Dockers hovers around 30 per cent and it is likely to get worse before it gets better. After years of chopping and changing its recruiting policy, Fremantle has finally settled on youth. The question is, though, can Harvey develop it? Maybe the club's list manager and former Freo skipper Chris Bond is the man. Or Kangaroos coach Dean Laidley, who is a West Australian. It will be at least six years before this club can consider a flag, and even then dozens of things would have to go right. Whoever coaches the Dockers needs strength, discipline and direction.

GEELONG
Mark Thompson has shown he can create and control the best team in the land. The Cats' window of opportunity will last for another three seasons, and Thompson will be there to oversee it.

HAWTHORN
The Hawks pinched a premiership and good on them. Alastair Clarkson and his assistants are still building the Hawks. It is year five. They have the youngest list in the AFL and it wouldn't surprise to see Clarkson hold his position for at least a decade.

MELBOURNE
The Demons under president Jim Stynes know they have a mammoth task in front of them and seem realistic and united in their approach. Second-year coach Dean Bailey is giving youth every chance, and knows he can get busy without having a heavy weight of expectations placed on him over the next few seasons.

NORTH MELBOURNE
Kangaroos coach Dean Laidley is in an interesting situation. This is his seventh season at Arden Street and he comes out of contract in a few months. Will the Roos want him? Will he want the Roos? Will Laidley look at a club, such as Fremantle, that has a big supporter base, is sitting at rock bottom and presents the challenge for the experienced coach to return to Western Australia and build a successful club?

Life's a struggle as a Roo and the club's chance to be really good seems to have passed. If Laidley leaves, does the door open for duel premiership player David King, who has been a valued assistant at Richmond in recent seasons? Or does John Longmire return, sick of being the second stringer for so long to Paul Roos in Sydney?

PORT ADELAIDE
Those who should know say this will be Mark Williams' 11th and final season as coach of Port Adelaide. Williams is no longer king of the castle at Alberton and, with his nose out of joint, he will look at Collingwood and Essendon. But neither will want him. Could the Tigers or Kangaroos be interested? Maybe.

Those in the running for Port Adelaide would be former premiership player Damien Hardwick, a valued assistant at Hawthorn, and former Melbourne captain Todd Viney. Viney has coached a country team in Moama, was an assistant at Hawthorn for five years, including last year's premiership, and is with the Crows. Being a South Australian would also help.

RICHMOND
Terry Wallace will depart this year, hopefully later rather than sooner. Malthouse would be ideal if the Tigers were looking for experience. If they opt for a young, first-time coach, Buckley, Wayne Campbell, Viney and Hardwick should be considered.

SYDNEY
Paul Roos will coach the Swans at least until the end of 2011. End of story.

ST KILDA
Ross Lyon, in his third season as coach, is putting his mark on the team. It is tough, determined, well-drilled and disciplined. An extension of contract should come his way before other clubs come sniffing around.

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Rodney Eade is doing a fine job. The Dogs are one of the top-four teams with a chance to challenge for the flag in 2009, '10 and '11. He should be offered a two-year extension of contract some time soon to ensure he is there to mastermind the assault.

WEST COAST
John Worsfold is the Eagles' favourite son and will get another contract extension to add to his eight years already in the job. The West Coast board, however, should open its eyes to who else is out there, because the functioning of its forward line leaves a lot to be desired, and has for a long time.

[Mofra]

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Rodney Eade is doing a fine job. The Dogs are one of the top-four teams with a chance to challenge for the flag in 2009, '10 and '11. He should be offered a two-year extension of contract some time soon to ensure he is there to mastermind the assault.

Can some stats guru (looking in TCD's direction) post where Eade is on our longest serving coaches list? He'd have to be making a dint on the top ten now wouldn't he?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Can some stats guru (looking in TCD's direction) post where Eade is on our longest serving coaches list? He'd have to be making a dint on the top ten now wouldn't he?

1. Ted Whitten Snr 228
2. Charlie Sutton 162
3. Terry Wallace 148
4. Mick Malthouse 135
5. Arthur Olliver 131
6. Rodney Eade 97
7. Terry Wheeler 91
8. Bob Rose 89
9. Joe Kelly 69
10. Alan Joyce 57


Eade will become the 24th person to coach 250 games. Malcolm Blight coached exactly 250 and later this year Eade will also pass Bill Stephen (258) and possibly equal Phonse Kyne (272) on Grand Final day.

[LostDoggy]

One question:

With both WOOF and The Age's summary of coach's positions, why are Dean Bailey and Mark Harvey treated so differently?

They both came in at exactly the same time (the start of last season), both had the same kind of list (floaters around the 6-12th mark under previous regimes), both taken their teams to the bottom of the table with some hopeless performances, both gone with a bit of a 'youth policy'...

Why is Dean Bailey seen as someone who must be given some time to turn the list around while Harvey is getting the hurry up? If anything Bailey had a better list to work with (Daniher did take them to the finals every other year, while Freo hasn't made the 8 consistently in a while), and has overseen far, far more diabolical performances than anything Freo's put up. You feel Bailey is given more grace because Melbourne is a basket case off the field.

Complete inconsistency in the treatment of coaches here, purely based on perception.

[alwaysadog]

One question:

With both WOOF and The Age's summary of coach's positions, why are Dean Bailey and Mark Harvey treated so differently?

They both came in at exactly the same time (the start of last season), both had the same kind of list (floaters around the 6-12th mark under previous regimes), both taken their teams to the bottom of the table with some hopeless performances, both gone with a bit of a 'youth policy'...

Why is Dean Bailey seen as someone who must be given some time to turn the list around while Harvey is getting the hurry up? If anything Bailey had a better list to work with (Daniher did take them to the finals every other year, while Freo hasn't made the 8 consistently in a while), and has overseen far, far more diabolical performances than anything Freo's put up. You feel Bailey is given more grace because Melbourne is a basket case off the field.

Complete inconsistency in the treatment of coaches here, purely based on perception.

It's easy to kick Harvey he's not in town to defend himself... and as for expecting consistency in football analysis by the media, excuse me while I laugh.

They are more concerned with creating controversy then genuine analysis and kicking those who can't defend themselves.

[LostDoggy]

^^^

Thoroughly agree that the media is more interested in controversy than genuine analysis; but it's not just the media though. See westdog's summary below:


Matthew Knights: Would want an improvement on last year if he's to be a realistic chance of keeping his job.

Mark Harvey: See above.

Dean Bailey: Needs time to build a list. Would be harsh to be sacked.



It seems to be a perception issue -- Bailey supposedly needs time to build a list, and is allowed a couple of seasons at the bottom of the table, but Knights and Harvey, who both came in at the same time as Bailey, inherited the same level of list, and have had better results overall than Bailey, are under pressure?

I would argue that another season at or near the bottom and Bailey should be under as much pressure as anyone. He's taken that club backwards a la Peter Rhode.

[hujsh]

Melbourne has the worst list in the entire comp. There are some very good players at Essendon and Freo but Melbourne has no Richo, Pavlich, Fletcher etc who can help make them competitive.

The closest thing they have is Cam Bruce.

Knights did say he though he could make something of the current list instead of rebuilding Hawks style which is why he got the job so he gets less time.

Harvey was appointed because Freo were seen as underachievers who should be in the 8.

No one thought Melbourne should be winning any games so Bailey is not under any pressure.




That's my take.

[soupman]

I think the difference between the two is that Bailey rocked up at the club after the season ended, didn't make any major off field changes to what was an average list, and then saw injuries to key players (Robertson, Neitz) hurt his team before quickly adopting the youth policy full on.

Harvey on the other hand took over mid-season after a few years as an assistant, so he knew the squad. He then influenced the drafting off season, going for the likes of Johnson and Bradley, both players that aren't rated highly (rightly or wrongly) by most supporters. He essentially stocked up on older blokes for a tilt at the finals, but mid-season last year realised that they weren't close, and has had to adopt the youth policy as a plan b.

Basically Bailey was youth policy from the start pretty much, Harvey was originally "stock up for the finals" before quickly realising how wrong he is and moving on to a youth policy.

[alwaysadog]

^^^

Thoroughly agree that the media is more interested in controversy than genuine analysis; but it's not just the media though. See westdog's summary below:



It seems to be a perception issue -- Bailey supposedly needs time to build a list, and is allowed a couple of seasons at the bottom of the table, but Knights and Harvey, who both came in at the same time as Bailey, inherited the same level of list, and have had better results overall than Bailey, are under pressure?

I would argue that another season at or near the bottom and Bailey should be under as much pressure as anyone. He's taken that club backwards a la Peter Rhode.

Yes there are really two issues; one we have agreed about is selling your soul or intellect, whichever you value least, for a headline etc., the other you correctly point out is perception closed allied to belief. What some perceive is missed However, by others and even where all perceptions coincide there is no guarantee that they accurately reflect reality. At this point the two issues are aligned.

While I don't necessarily agree with them the basis of the current perceptions would seem to be as much based on attitudes to the clubs they coach rather than the individuals themselves, although as they were selected by the clubs they may seem to embody the overall perception.

In an oversimplified manner I think people view the 3 clubs as follows.

The redlegs seem to have everyone's sympathy at the moment, I think it's based on a belief that they are a basket case and will take a very long time to come good. Rather like a very old aunt who is seriously ill.

The shockers, people are fed up with promising but not delivering and some recruiting which based on a perception no one else shared that they were close seemed strange. It's a bit like being in a room with an unpopular relative who has has always been a bit strange and now is so unpredictable you can't be sure what they will do next.

The bombomieres attract little sympathy and like the bluebaggers, they are the rich cousins who flaunted their wealth and patronised, but now attract no sympathy although the value of their investments has declined drastically as a result of global issues and the taxman is hot on their heels. You know you should feel sympathy but somehow can't avoid a bit of the, what goes around, feeling.

[Happy Days]

One question:

With both WOOF and The Age's summary of coach's positions, why are Dean Bailey and Mark Harvey treated so differently?

They both came in at exactly the same time (the start of last season), both had the same kind of list (floaters around the 6-12th mark under previous regimes), both taken their teams to the bottom of the table with some hopeless performances, both gone with a bit of a 'youth policy'...

Why is Dean Bailey seen as someone who must be given some time to turn the list around while Harvey is getting the hurry up? If anything Bailey had a better list to work with (Daniher did take them to the finals every other year, while Freo hasn't made the 8 consistently in a while), and has overseen far, far more diabolical performances than anything Freo's put up. You feel Bailey is given more grace because Melbourne is a basket case off the field.

Complete inconsistency in the treatment of coaches here, purely based on perception.

Because Freo was a top 4 team just 3 years ago, and about half a season before Harvey took over.

[azabob]

Because Freo was a top 4 team just 3 years ago, and about half a season before Harvey took over.

But they only clicked for half a season. Farmer kicked something like 70 goals in 12 games of footy.
So does half a season of footy make you a good side?

[LostDoggy]

But they only clicked for half a season. Farmer kicked something like 70 goals in 12 games of footy.
So does half a season of footy make you a good side?

Exactly. Freo have been a basketcase longer than Melbourne, who were making the finals every other year (and finished top 4 a couple of times) under Daniher. Bailey is being given a free ride, and he's under no pressure to win this year either because they'll be expected to "tank" (assuming they're good enough to even win any games on merit anyway) to get access to early picks in the last uncompromised draft before GC17 come in.

I've always thought that Harvey has a harder job than Bailey, but he's been under the pump (until beating Sydney), while Bailey flies happily under the radar churning out losses and going nowhere fast. Very Peter Rhode.

[Sedat]

I've always thought that Harvey has a harder job than Bailey, but he's been under the pump (until beating Sydney), while Bailey flies happily under the radar churning out losses and going nowhere fast. Very Peter Rhode.
Could also be argued to be very Alistair Clarkson - Hawthorn were an on-field basket case in 2005 and 2006 in Clarko's first 2 seasons in charge. Only in 2007 did they get themselves out of the bottom 4. At Hawthorn, Clarkson shipped off some decent senior players, who were not going to improve the list long-term and who were taking up a largish clunk of the salary cap, and implemented a new game plan that was foreign to the players up to that point - Bailey has basically done the same at Melbourne so far.

Harvey has followed the Wallace "half-pregnant" approach to rebuilding and list management. He will always be judged by the absurd decisions to bring in players like Solomon, Johnston and Tarrant at the expense of developing the list from scratch when he took over, and their game plan is not a lot different now to the Connolly era (of which Harvey was a part of anyway).

Bailey's year of judgement will be in 2010.

[Mofra]

Could also be argued to be very Alistair Clarkson - Hawthorn were an on-field basket case in 2005 and 2006 in Clarko's first 2 seasons in charge. Only in 2007 did they get themselves out of the bottom 4. Bailey's year of judgement will be in 2010.
Freo are spending close to 100% of the salary cap. I believe Melbourne are restricted to 92.5%.

The Demons have't been topping up either, being fully committed to a restructure. Freo's recruiting / trading over the past few years reads like a who's who of wash up hacks and overrated headcases.

[LostDoggy]

But they only clicked for half a season. Farmer kicked something like 70 goals in 12 games of footy.
So does half a season of footy make you a good side?

He only kicked 55 for the entire season.

[LostDoggy]

The biggest difference was Harvey wasted his first season. Bailey wielded the axe from the first day, but if you remember Mark Harvey's first game as the proper coach in 08 he played Mcmanus, the Carr boys, Farmer, Bell, Tarrant, Black,Headland,Gilmore etc etc. Plus recruited Solomon and Johnson. A lack of vision and footy smarts.

[Remi Moses]

Harvey is safe because the club has unloaded experienced players and are playing youngsters. {personally I don't think he has the nouse to become a good coach]
Bailey is safe because the list was like a train wreck when he took over needed a total rebuild.
Malthouse is GAWN plays favourites way to often. Buckley is a certainty IMO.Can someone tell me and the Collingwood massess how Alan Toovey,Rocca,O'bree still warrant a game?
Eade is doing a good job in spite of what the 12y/olds on Big Footy say. Someone posted a thread that Eade is going to take over at Port!!!:eek:
Knights is doing better than I expected,Sheedy left that list in a deplorable state and Knights unloaded every player he should have.Sheedy's gotten away with blue murder with his recruiting
Wallace dead man walking,looked on death row even though they won last Saturday night:D
Williams ^^^^^
Laidley Gotta strong feeling the coach knows his fate.

[LostDoggy]

Oh, I'm not defending Harvey, I'm just saying surely Bailey should be feeling SOME heat if Harvey is. How did Dean Bailey, a 53 game player and former assistant coach at Port, suddenly morph into a guru of modern footy exempt from criticism?

I'm just saying that Melbourne has been abject for the last two years (no club has ever quite plumbed such depths performance-wise, clean out or no clean out -- Alistair's Hawks was never as bad as Melbourne has been), yet a blind eye is turned because they are 'rebuilding'. Even rebuilding sides need more than a handful of kids coming through to create a sense of hope. Clarkson certainly brought in his fair share of trades - Croad and Dew were long-odd punts that could easily have been duds, but the footy Gods smiled for one brief moment on the Hawks. Already Croad may not get back on the park and Dew can't have much more left in him. Also, the Hawks had a core of top quality senior players that held the club together through the tough times, and Clarkson stamped his own style (like it or not) from day one. Knights, too, in a similar position, has created a distinctive style at the Bombers.

Melbourne, on the other hand, has no quality senior players to speak of other than maybe Davey, and they play no discernible style I can see. A team needs more than a couple of first round draft picks to compete, and there's no evidence they are going in any direction apart from pinning all their hopes on a draft system that may or may not produce anything.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Harvey is safe because the club has unloaded experienced players and are playing youngsters. {personally I don't think he has the nouse to become a good coach]
Bailey is safe because the list was like a train wreck when he took over needed a total rebuild.
Malthouse is GAWN plays favourites way to often. Buckley is a certainty IMO.Can someone tell me and the Collingwood massess how Alan Toovey,Rocca,O'bree still warrant a game?
Eade is doing a good job in spite of what the 12y/olds on Big Footy say. Someone posted a thread that Eade is going to take over at Port!!!:eek:
Knights is doing better than I expected,Sheedy left that list in a deplorable state and Knights unloaded every player he should have.Sheedy's gotten away with blue murder with his recruiting
Wallace dead man walking,looked on death row even though they won last Saturday night:D
Williams ^^^^^
Laidley Gotta strong feeling the coach knows his fate.

Williams has been asked to take a massive pay cut which he has supposedly taken with all the good grace of Nathan Brown.

He and the board have never been best friends and I would be very surprised if he isn't coaching in Melbourne next year. Perhaps in royal blue and white? Could they afford him either?

[ledge]

Would think Williams to Magpies bringing the 2 most arrogant people together and Malthouse to Richmond.. is this why Wallace hasnt been sacked?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Would think Williams to Magpies bringing the 2 most arrogant people together and Malthouse to Richmond.. is this why Wallace hasnt been sacked?

I think Malthouse to Richmond would be a near certainty. Williams seems a good fit for Collingwood but I can't see them going past Buckley.

[Remi Moses]

Jesus Dean Laidley is going to be under the pump this week. Might need a name cahnge to the North melbourne Handball club.Big difference between Rohde and Bailey one cut the list to the bone and the other had a reasonable list underperforming terribly. Wouldn't have thought Bailey would recruit the likes of Koops,Street,Rawlingsand Scott Bassett.''Our Mastermind'' gave up decent picks to boot for that lot.:mad:

[AndrewP6]

Interesting to see on the Dog's website, Rocket Eade being presented with an expensive bottle of plonk, to commemorate his 500th game as player or coach, and his 12 years as a senior coach. Some complimentary remarks... augurs well for a contract extension, I think...although the writer did say that Eade would enjoy a drop at "the end of the season"? Hopefully in celebration, not commiseration!

[The Coon Dog]

Now that Richmond & Wallace have parted ways, who do you think will be the 16 coaches in 2010?

Adelaide - Neil Craig
Brisbane - Michael Voss
Carlton - Brett Ratten
Collingwood - Nathan Buckley
Essendon - Matthew Knights
Fremantle - Mark Harvey
Geelong - Mark Thompson
Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson
Melbourne - Mark Williams
North Melbourne - John Longmire
Port Adelaide - Damien Hardwick
Richmond - Michael Malthouse
St.Kilda - Ross Lyon
Sydney - Paul Roos
West Coast - John Worsfold
Western Bulldogs - Rodney Eade

Not sure Buckley would be the right fit for Collingwood, but is Eddie's ego big enough to say no? Mark Williams in my view would be the perfect fit for Collingwood, but if they go with Buckley, Melbourne looms as a team with pretty clever kids & Chocco seems to develop the kids really well.

Everyone seems to think Malthouse will be back at Tigerland next season. I don't think it would concern Collingwood too much to be honest.

Just can't see North & Laidley staying together. It seems an unhappy marriage & I reckon Longmire has done his apprenticeship.

Interesting to see how Port Adelaide go. Will they look from withinn SA as the Crows did with Craig or will they be prepared to take on a Vic? Hardwick gives a bit of both given he won a flag with the club.

[Mofra]

Not sure about Longmire leaving the Swans - he has a fair bit of responsibility there and appears to have the job allocated as his when Roos decides to leave.

[The Pie Man]

Can't see Dean Bailey being in trouble - Mark Williams will see Collingwood as unfinished business, and will relish the challenge at a big club. Buckley would be a massive risk this early

[azabob]

Can't see Dean Bailey being in trouble - Mark Williams will see Collingwood as unfinished business, and will relish the challenge at a big club. Buckley would be a massive risk this early

I tend to agree, but Voss is working out so far so good.

[Mantis]

Not sure about Longmire leaving the Swans - he has a fair bit of responsibility there and appears to have the job allocated as his when Roos decides to leave.

How long do you think he will have wait for that to happen?

I have read before that Roos doesn't want to be a 'career coach', but he seems to be enjoying the role at present.

[LostDoggy]

How long do you think he will have wait for that to happen?

I have read before that Roos doesn't want to be a 'career coach', but he seems to be enjoying the role at present.

Roos's contract is up at the end of 2011 and he has stated quite definitively that this is his last (contract), and unlike Aker, Roos is not known to be one to change his mind.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Roos's contract is up at the end of 2011 and he has stated quite definitively that this is his last (contract), and unlike Aker, Roos is not known to be one to change his mind.

Hasn't he already changed his mind once? I thought 2008 was supposed to be his last year.

[Mantis]

Roos's contract is up at the end of 2011 and he has stated quite definitively that this is his last (contract), and unlike Aker, Roos is not known to be one to change his mind.

Might be a pretty good time to get out too considering the age of Sydneys best players and where their list looks to be heading.

[LostDoggy]

Hasn't he already changed his mind once? I thought 2008 was supposed to be his last year.

Hmm. Don't remember him saying anything about 2008, but you may well be right...

Go, John Longmire! Find your freedom elsewhere! Don't let Roosy hold you back with false promises and fluttering eyelashes. Go!

(But not to Richmond, for your own good.)

[The Coon Dog]

Richmond & North Melbourne for sure.

Which others?

Collingwood?
Port Adelaide?
Melbourne?
Fremantle?

[bornadog]

Richmond & North Melbourne for sure.

Which others?

Collingwood?
Port Adelaide?
Melbourne?
Fremantle?

I can't see Williams being resigned. Melbourne and Freo will retain their coach, and Magpies are a maybe.

[The Coon Dog]

Coaching tenures around the AFL (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25648811-19742,00.html)

AS the coaches merry-go-round continues to swing, Jon Ralph explores what's happening at your club.


ADELAIDE

Neil Craig

Out of contract 2011

Safe as houses after the club’s recent solid form. The club believes he is building a platform for a premiership tilt, even after some early season stumbles.



BRISBANE

Michael Voss

Out of contract 2011

Rock solid. Might yet be at the Lions for a decade after an impressive first season in charge. Loves the club and they love him.



CARLTON

Brett Ratten

Out of contract 2010

Was given an extension late last year, although he is aware he needs to extract obvious improvement from his team.



COLLINGWOOD

Mick Malthouse

Out of contract 2009

The club has gone from publicly throwing up alternative candidates to saying he will be re-signed “in due course”. As the wins flow, his odds of staying shorten.



ESSENDON

Matthew Knights

Out of contract 2010

Once under siege, he seems as safe as ever. Those at the club who once doubted if he would last are now being turned around by his vision.



FREMANTLE

Mark Harvey

Out of contract 2010

Harvey is selling the message that the club must patiently rebuild, but will be under threat next year. Will go into 2010 with the eyes of WA on him.



GEELONG

Mark Thompson

Out of contract 2009

Has a contract under his nose, but is yet to sign it. He says that is no issue, but if he is still unsigned in September, eyebrows will be raised.



HAWTHORN

Alastair Clarkson

Out of contract 2011

Notwithstanding a bake from his president on Monday night, Clarkson is safe and secure. The club’s premiership window will be open for another five years.



MELBOURNE

Dean Bailey

Out of contract 2010

One more year on his contract will not guarantee him much if the Demons don’t finish the year well. Any replicas of the Queen’s Birthday massacre will put him under serious heat.



PORT ADELAIDE

Mark Williams

Out of contract 2009

The coach most likely to be sacked or walk away now Laidley has gone. Only the lack of options elsewhere might see him plead to retain his job.



RICHMOND

No coach

The net will be cast wide, but the Tigers now have another club in the race for Nathan Buckley. Soon to start interviewing prospective candidates.



ST KILDA

Ross Lyon

Out of contract 2010

Lyon was rewarded with a contract extension last year. The administration and football department seem perfectly in harmony. A premiership would do wonders for his reputation.



SYDNEY

Paul Roos

Out of contract 2011

Committed to the club again late last year, but speculation continues about when he might hand over to John Longmire. Is he prepared for a total rebuild under his watch?



WESTERN BULLDOGS

Rodney Eade

Out of contract 2009

Yet to sign a new deal, but despite increasing speculation, he will ink one shortly. Will the club’s success allow him to push for three years rather than two?



WEST COAST

John Worsfold

Out of contract 2009

Is in the process of agreeing to a new deal. Victorians wonder if he has deserved it, but he has successfully sold to the board his vision for the club’s next premiership window.

[bornadog]

Eade should be signed for three years not two.

[Mantis]

Eade should be signed for three years not two.

I think that might be a bit of a sticking point at present.

[mighty_west]

My predictions:

Williams will be next to go, then Malthouse.

Port = Hardwick
North = Longmire
Collingwood = Williams or Buckley
Richmond = couldn't give a rats ass.

[ledge]

My predictions:

Williams will be next to go, then Malthouse.

Port = Hardwick
North = Longmire
Collingwood = Williams or Buckley
Richmond = couldn't give a rats ass.

He just left.

[bornadog]

He just left.

Ledge - read the post;)

[ledge]

i meant rats ass

[bornadog]

i meant rats ass

good one:D