INs and Outs for Semi v Swans

[bornadog]

If you look at the whole season including the final, the last North match and the Hawthorn match were the only two games where we weren't leading during the match but were chasing the opposition. All the other games that we lost, we were in a winning postion but got beaten in the last quarter.

Geelong - lead by up to two goals at one stage
Carlton - leading at three quarter time and then lost
Lions - threw the game away with bad kicking in the first half -lost by 11 points
Adelaide - pretty even match, lost by 9 points with a couple of dodgy goals and frees.

The North match they jumped us and we played catch up, got to withing 14 points at one stage.

Really the only game that we looked bad the whole match was the Hawks final, yes one of the most important matches of the year.

We do have the talent, and we are down a couple of KPP's, but to my way of thinking every team has a bad day at the office, and Friday was a shocker, however, we have had a pretty good season overall and must bounce back this week.

We have beaten the Swans twice this year and that will give us some confidence. They don't have a big forward line other than bustling Barry, and Lake will go straight to him. Depending on how some of the boys play today at Willy, there may be very few changes for next week. They do have a good ruck combination and can stretch us when they rest them.

Without being too emotional about it and thinking straight, what are your IN's and Outs.

[Sedat]

Prefer to wait and see how Willimastown performs today. With Sydney getting through, Ray might be saved from the axe due to his very good run-with job on O'Keefe a few weeks ago. Very important that we go in with enough runners to take advantage of the bigger ground that Sydney's style does not lend itself to - that of course is predicated on being remotely competitive at the stoppages, and seeing Jolly feed it down the throat of the Sydney on-ball brigade with ease last night, and knowing that Hudson is either sadly out of touch or injured, that is an extremely big if.

[LostDoggy]

Boumann kicked 7 yesterday for the reserves.

[Mantis]

As with Sedat I think we have to wait til Willi have played. You would think that atleast 5 or 6 players down there would be itching to put in a very good performance to put their names forward. However they may be at a disadvantage as the Willi players if promoted will only have a 5 day break.

[LostDoggy]

Everitt was slightly better than useless last night, Jolley was exhausted in the third quarter from having to do all the work. Our last quarter would be very important. Barry was back in form - although Lake has done a good job on him previously. It is our midfield that worries me - Captain Kirk was just inspirational - what a leader!

Still Johno usually fires up against the Swans and hopefully will have some fire in the belly to redress his game against the Hawks.

I am not optimistic about our chances, the Swans are a seasoned finals team - whereas we apparently got overawed at the big occasion:eek:

[Bulldog4life]

As with Sedat I think we have to wait til Willi have played. You would think that atleast 5 or 6 players down there would be itching to put in a very good performance to put their names forward. However they may be at a disadvantage as the Willi players if promoted will only have a 5 day break.

Good point. That's why there wouldn't be a lot of changes, if any, I would suggest.

[Scraggers]

Out:- Ray In:- Williams (oh, no, wait, he's injured)

Out:- Ray In:- West (nup, out for the season)

Out:- Ray In:- Addison (Mmmm ... shoulder? knee? ... dunno ... injured anyway)

Out:- Ray In:- The Bulldog Boot Studder (Let's face it ... he'd have to play better than Fazza)

[Dancin' Douggy]

Maybe we should give Callan Ward a run on the big stage?

[Mantis]

Maybe we should give Callan Ward a run on the big stage?

Why?

What will he bring to the team that we don't already have?

[bornadog]

Lets see how they perform today for Willy.

Possibles are:

Tiller
Street
Ward
Wight
Everitt
Skipper

[mjp]

I understand the comments about Ray - he was terrible - but he did actually GET the ball. The funny thing about players who have shockers is that it can go one of two ways -

1/.They dont touch it, dont sniff it, dont get near it.
2/.They keep getting the ball and buggering it up.

To be honest, it is way easier to be critical of the second type of player/game...their incompetence is continually on show for all to see. But it is the first type who are more of a concern. And this is where you have to say that we need a heck of a lot more from a lot of players not necessarily named Farren Ray in order to win against Sydney.

Cal Ward? I would love to see it, but he is nowhere next to ready...his last three games he seemed to stop wanting the ball - focusing only on not making a mistake instead of making something happen...I dont think that would be the right move.

[Go_Dogs]

If Tiller has another good game today, he comes in, besides that, no change.

Last thing we need is to bring in an under done player such as Addison (would love to have him out there), but we can't afford to carry any more blokes who aren't 100%.

[Mantis]

I understand the comments about Ray - he was terrible - but he did actually GET the ball. The funny thing about players who have shockers is that it can go one of two ways.



Agree with that Mike. Atleast he presented and ran to assist. He made mistake after mistake, but atleast he was trying to get involved. We had too many player's who stood in the corridor waving thier arms in the air rather than running into space.

We made Hawthorn's zone look inpenetrable due to a lack of work-rate and selfless running. Atleast Farren tried to do a bit of this.

[bornadog]

I understand the comments about Ray - he was terrible - but he did actually GET the ball. The funny thing about players who have shockers is that it can go one of two ways -

1/.They dont touch it, dont sniff it, dont get near it.
2/.They keep getting the ball and buggering it up.

To be honest, it is way easier to be critical of the second type of player/game...their incompetence is continually on show for all to see. But it is the first type who are more of a concern. And this is where you have to say that we need a heck of a lot more from a lot of players not necessarily named Farren Ray in order to win against Sydney.

Cal Ward? I would love to see it, but he is nowhere next to ready...his last three games he seemed to stop wanting the ball - focusing only on not making a mistake instead of making something happen...I dont think that would be the right move.

There were a few in category one on Friday which really hurt us, Hahn, Murphy, Welsh, Johnno

[Dancin' Douggy]

Obviously I'm clutching at straws. But when you're drowning...............

[bornadog]

If Tiller has another good game today, he comes in, besides that, no change.

Last thing we need is to bring in an under done player such as Addison (would love to have him out there), but we can't afford to carry any more blokes who aren't 100%.

Yes we already have Higgins and Callen under done and in my opinion carrying them, plus we have first year players in Hill and Harbrow, plus Hudson not fully fit.

[hujsh]

C.Ward was named in Willy's best with 4 goals.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Why?

What will he bring to the team that we don't already have?

I reckon he might kick three or four goals for Willy and come into consideration...... just a guess of course.

[Mantis]

I reckon he might kick three or four goals for Willy and come into consideration...... just a guess of course.

Good call wise guy, he will replace which of our small forwards?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Didn't realise he was a small forward.

[Mantis]

Didn't realise he was a small forward.

He isn't strong enough or have enough endurance to play in the midfield just yet so has spent 90% of his time in Bulldog's colours in the forwardline.

So I ask once again who's spot does he take?

[1eyedog]

Please see below....

[1eyedog]

Barring injury why would we change the side, who would we bring in that would make a difference? Bringing in a tall against a small Sydney forward line appears futile. There is no midfielder at Willy with the experience or hardness that will make any difference this Friday night unless we want to give youngsters final experience. I don't see the point.

[LostDoggy]

If Hudson fitness isn't going to allow us to play Minson up forward for at least 60% of the game then we might as well play Skipper as well.

There are plenty of cases for and against playing Ward. Pies seemed to do alright with their kids yesterday and we are better off in the long run blooding him now.
Take your pick on who he replaces from Ray, Higgins, Harbrow and a few others.

[The Pie Man]

Why would we change the side, who would we bring in that would make a difference? Bringing in a tall against a small Sydney forward line appears futile. There is no midfielder at Williamstown with the experience or hardness that will make any difference this Friday night unless we want to give youngsters final experience.

Not a bad idea that - Cal Ward for Eagleton

Does it concern me less about Ray that he was actually getting the ball and running into the right spots? Nup, he butchered it or put teamates under pressure, and it's time a line was drawn through his name.

I bet there's no change. Ray did at least do a job on O'Keefe last time around and may get this again, and Eagleton can't play that badly again can he? Can he?

[The Pie Man]

If Hudson fitness isn't going to allow us to play Minson up forward for at least 60% of the game then we might as well play Skipper as well.

There are plenty of cases for and against playing Ward. Pies seemed to do alright with their kids yesterday and better off in the long run blooding him now.

I agree with that - and have Skip play the Minson role and not on the bench while Wil's in the ruck (which seemed to be the case in Adelaide)

[hujsh]

Having a tall forward isn't a bad idea if he get's Leo Barry on him.

[LostDoggy]

Having a tall forward isn't a bad idea if he get's Leo Barry on him.

Might be true. 1 tall option there at least gives a long bomb under pressure hope.
If our midfield turn it over or play as badly as they did last week then it won't matter who we have up forward.

[Sedat]

Boumann kicked 7 yesterday for the reserves.
You're surely not suggesting a call up from Williamstown reserves to an AFL final against an experienced and seasoned opponent?

[LostDoggy]

lol Peter Street has more of a chance than Boumann

[Cyberdoggie]

If Hudson fitness isn't going to allow us to play Minson up forward for at least 60% of the game then we might as well play Skipper as well.

There are plenty of cases for and against playing Ward. Pies seemed to do alright with their kids yesterday and we are better off in the long run blooding him now.
Take your pick on who he replaces from Ray, Higgins, Harbrow and a few others.

I'm with ya there Ernie. Minson needs to be up forward, we lack confidence going forward and the easiest way to fix that is to put a big bloke up there to give the small guys a chance. It takes out the zone/flood issue and creates a 50/50 chance. At least it's the best option until you can get your game going. There's nothing worse than seeing us handball the ball and chip backwards constantly trying to find an opening. You just can't do it when they put pressure on you and make you backpedal.

Ward is still light but best on ground for Willy in the wet in a losing VFL final is a good sign. Ray and Eagleton were absolute rubbish the other night and i think you will all agree there lack of skill on either side of their body combined with their lack of ability to withstand pressure brought them undone. Higgins also made some bad skill errors and didn't really provide any defensive pressure either, and Harbrow is really struggling without any big guys for him to rove to in the forward line. The moment Minson goes forward he starts getting his hands on the ball.

[Dancin' Douggy]

He isn't strong enough or have enough endurance to play in the midfield just yet so has spent 90% of his time in Bulldog's colours in the forwardline.

So I ask once again who's spot does he take?

Eagleton. Harbrow. Higgins. Have all been little value. We've been very poor and we need to shake things up and get some fresh blood in.

[Desipura]

Out: Ray, Higgins and Callan
In: Ward, Tiller and Everitt

[bornadog]

Eagleton. Harbrow. Higgins. Have all been little value. We've been very poor and we need to shake things up and get some fresh blood in.

Yet against Adelaide, Eagleton was one of our best.

[Sedat]

In: Ward
Out: Harbrow

If Harbrow cannot stick a tackle against the Hawks, what hope does he have against Sydney? And he simply does not find enough of the ball at this stage of his career (forget the junktime possessions he racked up late against Hawthorn). Ward is super courageous and will add some steel to the midfield rotations.

I'd also like to see Eagle sacrificed but I don't think it will happen. Would be happy to see Everitt take his place on the wing.

Willy players only had a 5 day break so it will be difficult to forshadow wholesale changes as a result. Good to see Wood making a claim for senior selection with a string of good performances for Willy.

Ray needs to be kept against Sydney IMO - his running power will be important against a side like Sydney and he cannot possibly butcher the ball as badly again. He was very good in a negating role O'Keefe last time.

[Mantis]

Yet against Adelaide, Eagleton was one of our best.

In the first half on Friday night Eagleton had 8 possessions. I reckon atleast 3 or 4 of these were ineffective. This really isn't good enough for a player who's only role is to receive the ball from his team-mates, run and carry it and deliver it to his team-mates. It's not like he is made responsible for his opponent or anything.

His game against Adelaide was good, but was all predictable in a game where he was allowed to run around as pleased.

[bornadog]

In the first half on Friday night Eagleton had 8 possessions. I reckon atleast 3 or 4 of these were ineffective. This really isn't good enough for a player who's only role is to receive the ball from his team-mates, run and carry it and deliver it to his team-mates. It's not like he is made responsible for his opponent or anything.

His game against Adelaide was good, but was all predictable in a game where he was allowed to run around as pleased.

Mantis, I agree his position should be in jeopardy this week, but will they drop him?

[Mantis]

In: Ward
Out: Harbrow

If Harbrow cannot stick a tackle against the Hawks, what hope does he have against Sydney? And he simply does not find enough of the ball at this stage of his career (forget the junktime possessions he racked up late against Hawthorn). Ward is super courageous and will add some steel to the midfield rotations.

I'd also like to see Eagle sacrificed but I don't think it will happen. Would be happy to see Everitt take his place on the wing.



You've lost me with that one.

How could you possibly keep Higgins in the team ahead of Harbrow. While understanding of your thought processes I am stumped to see what Higgins will offer.

We also need to add a defender.

[Mantis]

Mantis, I agree his position should be in jeopardy this week, but will they drop him?

No they won't. They haven't got the balls to do so. They will take the easy or safe option like they always do and drop Harbrow and Callan and probably Ray.

[bornadog]

B: Dale Morris, Brian Lake, Tim Callan
HB: Ryan Hargrave, Cam Wight, Lindsay Gilbee
C:, Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Jason Akermanis, Wayde Skipper, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Giansiracusa
I/C: Jarrod Harbrow, Josh Hill, Will Minson, Farren Ray
EMG: Andrejs Everitt, Stephen Tiller, Shaun Higgins

In: Cam Wight, Wayde Skipper
Out: Shaun Higgins, Nathan Eagleton

[Mantis]

B: Dale Morris, Brian Lake, Tim Callan
HB: Ryan Hargrave, Cam Wight, Lindsay Gilbee
C:, Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Jason Akermanis, Wayde Skipper, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Giansiracusa
I/C: Jarrod Harbrow, Josh Hill, Will Minson, Farren Ray
EMG: Andrejs Everitt, Stephen Tiller, Shaun Higgins

In: Cam Wight, Wayde Skipper
Out: Shaun Higgins, Nathan Eagleton

Cam Wight will match-up on whom?

Sydney started with Goodes, Hall, Moore, Buchanan and O'Keefe up forward on Saturday night. Would he pick up any of these?

[bornadog]

Cam Wight will match-up on whom?

Sydney started with Goodes, Hall, Moore, Buchanan and O'Keefe up forward on Saturday night. Would he pick up any of these?

Goodes?

or resting ruckman if they try and stretch us.

[1eyedog]

B: Dale Morris, Brian Lake, Tim Callan
HB: Ryan Hargrave, Cam Wight, Lindsay Gilbee
C:, Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Jason Akermanis, Wayde Skipper, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Giansiracusa
I/C: Jarrod Harbrow, Josh Hill, Will Minson, Farren Ray
EMG: Andrejs Everitt, Stephen Tiller, Shaun Higgins

In: Cam Wight, Wayde Skipper
Out: Shaun Higgins, Nathan Eagleton

This should of been the team last week IMO. It's too late to add Wight against a small Sydney forward line. I like the idea of Skipper at CHF at least it gives us something although there must be question marks over his fitness. If we are bringing in Wight just to play him in the hope of winning against Sydney fair enough but who would his match up be the following week against Geelong? Just don't see a spot for him this week or next.

In: Skipper, Tiller
Out: Higgins, Harbrow

Tiller's pretty ordinary but at least he gives us some options and decent attack on the ball while Skipper gives us a forward option or allows Minson to stay forward while he shares ruck duties with Hudson.

[Mantis]

Goodes?

or resting ruckman if they try and stretch us.

Yeah maybe on both accounts.

One thing for sure is that Sydney will try and open up there forwardline and let Hall and Goodes go to work. We have to find a way to clog up there space and I don't think we can allow Morris to play on either of these 2.

[1eyedog]

Goodes?

or resting ruckman if they try and stretch us.

I would not put Wight on Goodes. I would bring in Tiller and put him on O'Keefe and Have Morris on Goodes if he was forward.

[1eyedog]

Yeah maybe on both accounts.

One thing for sure is that Sydney will try and open up there forwardline and let Hall and Goodes go to work. We have to find a way to clog up there space and I don't think we can allow Morris to play on either of these 2.

Why is that?

[Mantis]

This should of been the team last week IMO. It's too late to add Wight against a small Sydney forward line. I like the idea of Skipper at CHF at least it gives us something although there must be question marks over his fitness. If we are bringing in Wight just to play him in the hope of winning against Sydney fair enough but who would his match up be the following week against Geelong? Just don't see a spot for him this week or next.



Possibly Mooney or Lonergan? Lake gets exposed when he goes up the ground so he must stay back and pick up either of these 2 when they are playing out of the square. Wight can follow the other one up the ground.

[Mantis]

Why is that?

Because I am sick watching him getting thrown to the wolves by playing on bigger and stronger opponents. I know he is our best defender, but he just isn't big enough to pick up key forwards. Let him pick up someone his own size for a change and throw the challenge to Everitt or Wight or whoever.

[bornadog]

If we are bringing in Wight just to play him in the hope of winning against Sydney fair enough but who would his match up be the following week against Geelong? Just don't see a spot for him this week or next. .

My plan is we need him for not just this week but against Geelong. Lake cannot play on Mooney away from the goal square. Lake would go to Longergan (197cm) and Wight on Mooney.

Personally, I am a little dissapointed with Wight, however, we don't have a choice. We cannot and should not be lowering the confidence of guys like Morris and Hargrave who are asked to play on these big guys. It will not work.

Goodes is also 194cm and built solidly, we need some one that can run with him and has some size.

[bornadog]

Possibly Mooney or Lonergan? Lake gets exposed when he goes up the ground so he must stay back and pick up either of these 2 when they are playing out of the square. Wight can follow the other one up the ground.


Because I am sick watching him getting thrown to the wolves by playing on bigger and stronger opponents. I know he is our best defender, but he just isn't big enough to pick up key forwards. Let him pick up someone his own size for a change and throw the challenge to Everitt or Wight or whoever.


We are on the same page here:)

[1eyedog]

Fair enough but do we want to win this game or what. I am of the opinion that Goodes is way too creative in the forward line for either Wight or Everitt and could kick a small bag on either of them in the first quarter. You are talking of strength. Are either Wight or Everitt as strong as Goodes? No. Is Morris, probably not but he is a hell of a lot stronger than the two players mentioned above. Let me get this straight, you want to put teenage beanpoles who are hard up getting a game in our team on a much stronger dual Brownlow medalist who is also the most creative player in the opposition team and you want to put our best backman in potential AA form on a less damaging player than Goodes (O'Keefe included) because you're sick of it? Excuse me if I am wrong but, hello, game over. Morris has to go to the Wolf as he is the best we have got.

[Sedat]

You've lost me with that one.

How could you possibly keep Higgins in the team ahead of Harbrow. While understanding of your thought processes I am stumped to see what Higgins will offer.

We also need to add a defender.
I'd be advocating more changes if Willy had more than a 5 day break. To be honest, Higgins is right on the cusp and it would not upset me in the slightest if he was dropped this week. But Harbrow has had ample opportunities to make the small forward position his own and hasn't grasped them. If push comes to shove Higgins is areally superior to Harbrow which would be handy against a small defender like a Paul Bevan type. But this is tinkering around the edges. Hudson, Minson, Cooney, Griffen, Cross and Boyd hold the key to winning or losing this week.

I'm not 100% sure we need an extra defender against Sydney. They have Hall and Goodes drifting forward - they don't have too many other tall targets (assuming O'Loughlin is not fit enough to come back into the side - that changes things if he is).

[1eyedog]

I'd be advocating more changes if Willy had more than a 5 day break. To be honest, Higgins is right on the cusp and it would not upset me in the slightest if he was dropped this week. But Harbrow has had ample opportunities to make the small forward position his own and hasn't grasped them. If push comes to shove Higgins is areally superior to Harbrow which would be handy against a small defender like a Paul Bevan type. But this is tinkering around the edges. Hudson, Minson, Cooney, Griffen, Cross and Boyd hold the key to winning or losing this week.

I'm not 100% sure we need an extra defender against Sydney. They have Hall and Goodes drifting forward - they don't have too many other tall targets (assuming O'Loughlin is not fit enough to come back into the side - that changes things if he is).

From the posts earlier I am assuming it is because if we win, Wight or Everitt have game time under their belt for their upcoming dual with Lonergan, which is probably fair enough.

[Mantis]

Fair enough but do we want to win this game or what. I am of the opinion that Goodes is way too creative in the forward line for either Wight or Everitt and could kick a small bag on either of them in the first quarter. You are talking of strength. Are either Wight or Everitt as strong as Goodes? No. Is Morris, probably not but he is a hell of a lot stronger than the two players mentioned above. Let me get this straight, you want to put teenage beanpoles who are hard up getting a game in our team on a much stronger dual Brownlow medalist who is also the most creative player in the opposition team and you want to put our best backman in potential AA form on a less damaging player than Goodes (O'Keefe included) because you're sick of it? Excuse me if I am wrong but, hello, game over. Morris has to go to the Wolf as he is the best we have got.

I argued last week that Morris shouldn't have played on Franklin, yeah it was probably our only option, but he was just too big and strong. I know the ball was coming down with ease, but he just couldn't compete.

Morris will give all he has on his opponent, whoever it is, but at some stage we have to give these difficult jobs to someone else. I bet if Williams was in the team he would be playing on Goodes, but really Tom is just learning the caper as well.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Cam Wight will match-up on whom?

Sydney started with Goodes, Hall, Moore, Buchanan and O'Keefe up forward on Saturday night. Would he pick up any of these?

Maybe not, but who would he pick up anywhere ever?

What's the point of even having him on the list?
Physically he SHOULD have played on Franklin as opposed to Morris.
Physically he SHOULD be able to play on Goodes but he won't.
If he's not considered for either of these roles after 6 years on the list, in a team that is desperate for talls he's just a good VFL player. That's all

[1eyedog]

I argued last week that Morris shouldn't have played on Franklin, yeah it was probably our only option, but he was just too big and strong. I know the ball was coming down with ease, but he just couldn't compete.

Morris will give all he has on his opponent, whoever it is, but at some stage we have to give these difficult jobs to someone else. I bet if Williams was in the team he would be playing on Goodes, but really Tom is just learning the caper as well.

I understand the logic, I really do. I hope Goodes does not do too much damage on either Wight or Everitt. I agreed with you that Morris should not have played on Franklin, I thought Wight should have as he matches height and athleticism. Goodes is 2-3cm shorter than Buddy and because of dodgy knees not as dexterous. I would have thought Morris would be better on him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I am going in with exactly the same team,

For my money we made the decision last week that we didn't have a key defender on the list that would improve our on field structure in 2008. I dont think that has changed in a week, but it is something that will have to be addressed in the offseason. And Harry Taylor would have greatly helped our 08 efforts.

We went in with a running squad as our best attempt at beating them, which I think most of us agreed with, and it didn't work. Partly because Hudson is struggling to generate any drive out of the middle and they bottled us up with their cluster, and we just weren't clean enough with our skills or intense enough.

But for now basically we just need to play a whole lot better. I think in some respects we can overcook our analysis of Fridays game, but the reality is that Hawthorn and Geelong are a lot better than everyone else.

I cant see any tall options that are going to help and I dont think we need another inexperienced running player.

[Mantis]

Maybe not, but who would he pick up anywhere ever?

What's the point of even having him on the list?
Physically he SHOULD have played on Franklin as opposed to Morris.
Physically he SHOULD be able to play on Goodes but he won't.
If he's not considered for either of these roles after 6 years on the list, in a team that is desperate for talls he's just a good VFL player. That's all

I agree with all that, but atleast give him the opportunity to stuff up on the big stage. We let a few other's get stage fright in big games, why not let Cam join in the fun.;)

[Dancin' Douggy]

That's what I'm saying. Play him. He should have played on Buddy as well. He should have been permanently in the team as soon as Williams went down. Give him a month at senior level so he's ready for Buddy and just stick with him. To expect Morris to do the job was actually idiotic. At least Wight could have competed in the air a LITTLE bit.

[Cyberdoggie]

No they won't. They haven't got the balls to do so. They will take the easy or safe option like they always do and drop Harbrow and Callan and probably Ray.

I agree,

the verbal dressing down, and the promise of wholesale change, ie no one is safe is rubbish.

the usual changes will take place

too much to risk making changes just for a statement in a semi-final.

Otherwise we would probably see Easton Wood get a game.

[Mantis]

I am going in with exactly the same team,

For my money we made the decision last week that we didn't have a key defender on the list that would improve our on field structure in 2008. I dont think that has changed in a week, but it is something that will have to be addressed in the offseason. And Harry Taylor would have greatly helped our 08 efforts.

We went in with a running squad as our best attempt at beating them, which I think most of us agreed with, and it didn't work. Partly because Hudson is struggling to generate any drive out of the middle and they bottled us up with their cluster, and we just weren't clean enough with our skills or intense enough.

But for now basically we just need to play a whole lot better. I think in some respects we can overcook our analysis of Fridays game, but the reality is that Hawthorn and Geelong are a lot better than everyone else.

I cant see any tall options that are going to help and I dont think we need another inexperienced running player.

One of my major problems with the team that was selected for last weeks game was that we only played 5 defender's. Now I no Sydney try and play a 4 or 5 man forwardline , but surely we need to play another defender for some flexibility.

If we win we play Geelong. We will need to play another tall defender to counteract Mooney and Lonergan. Can we expect Wight or Everitt to come into the team without playing at a higher level for atleast a month and compete in a PF? Or are you happy to use Hargrave on Lonergan?

[bornadog]

One of my major problems with the team that was selected for last weeks game was that we only played 5 defender's. Now I no Sydney try and play a 4 or 5 man forwardline , but surely we need to play another defender for some flexibility.

If we win we play Geelong. We will need to play another tall defender to counteract Mooney and Lonergan. Can we expect Wight or Everitt to come into the team without playing at a higher level for atleast a month and compete in a PF? Or are you happy to use Hargrave on Lonergan?

and some one has to pick up Steve Johnson, who is 189cm.

[Sedat]

One of my major problems with the team that was selected for last weeks game was that we only played 5 defender's. Now I no Sydney try and play a 4 or 5 man forwardline , but surely we need to play another defender for some flexibility.

If we win we play Geelong. We will need to play another tall defender to counteract Mooney and Lonergan. Can we expect Wight or Everitt to come into the team without playing at a higher level for atleast a month and compete in a PF? Or are you happy to use Hargrave on Lonergan?
Everitt played down back down at Geelong and was out of his depth in the role. I'd like to see him brought into the team this week for Sydney but as a mobile running wingman (at the expense of Eagleton) and not as a key defender - he just isn't there yet. If we are relying on him or Wight as defensive cover against Geelong we are up that well known creek without a paddle.

[bornadog]

Everitt played down back down at Geelong and was out of his depth in the role. I'd like to see him brought into the team this week for Sydney but as a mobile running wingman (at the expense of Eagleton) and not as a key defender - he just isn't there yet. If we are relying on him or Wight as defensive cover against Geelong we are up that well known creek without a paddle.

and your suggestion on who else can cover the talls? We saw what hapened at Geelong and Hawthorn last week. I agree Everitt cannot be the one so leaves Wight.

[Sedat]

and your suggestion on who else can cover the talls? We saw what hapened at Geelong and Hawthorn last week. I agree Everitt cannot be the one so leaves Wight.
I wouldn't bring in an additional tall against Sydney. Instead I would bring in some additional midfield running power to try and exploit an area of advantage we have against them. That means placing an emormous level of faith in our rucks and midfielders being able to do the job this week that they were plainly unable to do last week. The stark reality is that if our rucks and midfield get smashed again it won't matter if Scarlett, Langford, Silvagni, Dench and Herb Henderson are stationed down back for us.

If we happen to win this week, I would consider bringing in an extra tall(ish) defender against Geelong because their forward set-up probably demands it. Who that player is I'm not quite sure. None of Everitt, Tiller and Wight leave me feeling the slightest bit confident. If pushed I'd probably go with Wight - at least he has height and stamina.

[Bulldog Revolution]

One of my major problems with the team that was selected for last weeks game was that we only played 5 defender's. Now I no Sydney try and play a 4 or 5 man forwardline , but surely we need to play another defender for some flexibility.

If we win we play Geelong. We will need to play another tall defender to counteract Mooney and Lonergan. Can we expect Wight or Everitt to come into the team without playing at a higher level for atleast a month and compete in a PF? Or are you happy to use Hargrave on Lonergan?

I would deal with if we win, if we win.

However, I think you make a fair point about the flexibility, and If Everitt had played at all well at any time during this year I'd probably play him, but he hasn't. If I was going to pick anyone for that role to give the side more flexibility it would probably be Tiller and get him to play big, which he hasn't really done apart from a cameo on Mooney when the cats were rampaging, and I dont think that will get a lot of support for that idea.

I think the team that played on Friday is pretty much the best shot at beating Sydney.

[bornadog]

I wouldn't bring in an additional tall against Sydney. Instead I would bring in some additional midfield running power to try and exploit an area of advantage we have against them. That means placing an emormous level of faith in our rucks and midfielders being able to do the job this week that they were plainly unable to do last week. The stark reality is that if our rucks and midfield get smashed again it won't matter if Scarlett, Langford, Silvagni, Dench and Herb Henderson are stationed down back for us.

If we happen to win this week, I would consider bringing in an extra tall(ish) defender against Geelong because their forward set-up probably demands it. Who that player is I'm not quite sure. None of Everitt, Tiller and Wight leave me feeling the slightest bit confident. If pushed I'd probably go with Wight - at least he has height and stamina.

Ok, one week at a time. What are your changes, if any, for this week?

[LostDoggy]

We aren't going to win playing defenders who aren't good enough atm(Wight, Tiller & Everitt). Game won and lost in midfield.

[Sedat]

Ok, one week at a time. What are your changes, if any, for this week?
Earlier on the thread I suggested Ward in for Harbrow and the reasons for this (and for retaining the likes of Ray). Tinkering with the side based on the 5 day break for Willy restricts our options for wholesale changes.

I really hope that Eagle is dropped but I suspect that he will be retained.

[Mantis]

Everitt played down back down at Geelong and was out of his depth in the role. I'd like to see him brought into the team this week for Sydney but as a mobile running wingman (at the expense of Eagleton) and not as a key defender - he just isn't there yet. If we are relying on him or Wight as defensive cover against Geelong we are up that well known creek without a paddle.

I think he could play on Lonergan.

[Ozza]

I think he could play on Lonergan.

I agree...and would play him on Goodes this week.

As good a player as Goodes his - his groin is gone at the moment and he can't change direction - Wight has the motor to stick with him and compete - and to chop out Hudson in the Ruck also...

[LostDoggy]

I agree...and would play him on Goodes this week.

As good a player as Goodes his - his groin is gone at the moment and he can't change direction - Wight has the motor to stick with him and compete - and to chop out Hudson in the Ruck also...

Get ready for Goodes to kick 10.
Wight has the motor but he is no where near skilled or strong enough to go with a 2 time Brownlow medalist. He is the twos for a reason.
As for Wight's rucking its poo.

[Mantis]

Get ready for Goodes to kick 10.
Wight has the motor but he is no where near skilled or strong enough to go with a 2 time Brownlow medalist. He is the twos for a reason.
As for Wight's rucking its poo.

Compared to Franklin kicking 8??

Yes if our midfield gets smashed it wont matter, but we need to some flexibility in our backline or are you to ignorant to admit that?

[LostDoggy]

Compared to Franklin kicking 8??

Yes if our midfield gets smashed it wont matter, but we need to some flexibility in our backline or are you to ignorant to admit that?

Thank for continuing your lovely tone at the moment. If the game or the team upset you that much, take a chill pill, there is no need to be so rude not just to me but others as well.

So you think Wight can stop Goodes when he can't stop guys smaller or no where near as skilled as Goodes?
What type of flexibility is playing someone that isn't good enough?

[Mantis]

So you think Wight can stop Goodes when he can't stop guys smaller or no where near as skilled as Goodes?
What type of flexibility is playing someone that isn't good enough?

So we will continue to play Morris in roles that he cannot fulfil? At some point of time we have to give this guy a break from being played on unsuitable opponents. Yes Wight is no world beater, but I feel that he or another tall defender need to play. Goodes is clearly not fully fit, but just his reach is too much for Morris to handle.

[LostDoggy]

So we will continue to play Morris in roles that he cannot fulfil? At some point of time we have to give this guy a break from being played on unsuitable opponents. Yes Wight is no world beater, but I feel that he or another tall defender need to play. Goodes is clearly not fully fit, but just his reach is too much for Morris to handle.
If Morris can't fulfil the role then Wight certainly wont either.

[Mantis]

If Morris can't fulfil the role then Wight certainly wont either.

Morris is probably the best man on man defender in the competition, but struggles on taller opponents, especially ones who play close to goal. Atleast Wight wont have to worry about height being a problem, but I do understand that Wight would have to play above what we have seen this year, but I think he could do the job for us and even if he doesn't I still think he would be of more value than one of our under-performing mids/ forwards.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Morris is probably the best man on man defender in the competition, but struggles on taller opponents, especially ones who play close to goal. Atleast Wight wont have to worry about height being a problem, but I do understand that Wight would have to play above what we have seen this year, but I think he could do the job for us and even if he doesn't I still think he would be of more value than one of our under-performing mids/ forwards.

I think you've made a good case for him this week

I think Tiller could do a better job on Lonergan than Wight - thoughts?

[Mantis]

I think you've made a good case for him this week

I think Tiller could do a better job on Lonergan than Wight - thoughts?

I hope we can worry about that one next week, but depending on who comes in this week (hopefully someone) then we can critique their performance and make a change if required.

[LostDoggy]

Morris is probably the best man on man defender in the competition, but struggles on taller opponents, especially ones who play close to goal. Atleast Wight wont have to worry about height being a problem, but I do understand that Wight would have to play above what we have seen this year, but I think he could do the job for us and even if he doesn't I still think he would be of more value than one of our under-performing mids/ forwards.
Why have we just completely forgotten the past in regards to Wight?
Wight gets out muscled by smaller players. What use is having height if he is easily pushed off?

[Mantis]

Why have we just completely forgotten the past in regards to Wight?
Wight gets out muscled by smaller players. What use is having height if he is easily pushed off?

I haven't forgotten the past, but watching Goodes on Saturday night I noted that he took quite a few marks on the lead where his reach was important. Due to his sore groins I can't see him getting involved in to many wrestling tussles as his core strength is reduced.

[The Pie Man]

I haven't forgotten the past, but watching Goodes on Saturday night I noted that he took quite a few marks on the lead where his reach was important. Due to his sore groins I can't see him getting involved in to many wrestling tussles as his core strength is reduced.

I haven't been the biggest Wight fan this year, but I'll list a few things that can support his promotion

* Last time round he was a late inclusion vs Melbourne, he played well. Was kinda surprised he got dropped for the Geelong game the next week
* While Ottens is now Geelong's number one ruck, he does drift forward - Wight would seem ideal for a Lonergan/Ottens match up (Hargrave to take Lonergan short term when Wight goes to Ottens)
* While form at VFL level may not be stellar, a better style of game and ground/conditions in the ones can make the game easier to play (I still can't believe Everitt was dropped after the Sydney game this year, ruined what was left of his year)

[LostDoggy]

OK it settled then Wight is our saviour. Already beaten Geelong before we played Sydney. Bugger fixing our midfield problems from last week or our lack of a forward line.

[Mantis]

OK it settled then Wight is our saviour. Bugger fixing our midfield problems from last week or our lack of a forward line.

What do you suggest?

And yes I agree our midfield & forwardline problems are probably worse than the defensive problems.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Ray, Eagleton, Welsh, Higgins, Callan, Boyd,

In: Ward, Skipper, Everitt, Addison, Higgins, BoydSorry.....tactical motivational ploy just in case Eade hasn't thought of any new transparent ones.....

[hujsh]

You'd drop Welsh before Higgins?

[LostDoggy]

yep- skipper as a tall high marking target for Welsh...restructure that shonky forward line. B
ut agree Higgins would be a little lucky--

[1eyedog]

You'd drop Welsh before Higgins?

Welsh has been useless as well but at least he demands a half decent defender.

[1eyedog]

Morris is probably the best man on man defender in the competition, but struggles on taller opponents, especially ones who play close to goal. Atleast Wight wont have to worry about height being a problem, but I do understand that Wight would have to play above what we have seen this year, but I think he could do the job for us and even if he doesn't I still think he would be of more value than one of our under-performing mids/ forwards.

Wight won't even get near the ball to use his height to spoil on a strong forward. He will be out-bodied everytime.

[LostDoggy]

What do you suggest?

And yes I agree our midfield & forwardline problems are probably worse than the defensive problems.
I think you have to rely on the main group of players that got us 3rd spot in the first place. I think its more execution issue more than a quality issue. The midfielder simply have to play better and more like they have been. One or two changes at the most but they aren't wholesale changes.

Already suggested if Hudson fitness means Minson has to ruck more then you might as well bring in a tall forward like Skipper.

Bringing Wight into the side isn't going to make a difference between winning and losing. He is more likely take the place of someone that could influence the midfield or forward lines.

[Mantis]

Wight won't even get near the ball to use his height to spoil on a strong forward. He will be out-bodied everytime.

Wight is not the only option. I really don't care if we play Everitt or Tiller in this role. I just believe we need to play another tallish defender.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I can't believe how short our memories are.

Wight is a long way from being an AFL player, do we need to drag out the spiteful posts from earlier this year?

Wight's form at Willi has been nothing short of dreadful, and now he's going to come in and stich up a dual Brownlow medalist?

The facts are our depth is woeful - all the early season carry-on was mostly about kids who one day might be good, but all are some way off being ready for AFL.

We may not like it, but we are probably stuck with the 22 who played last week - even if a few don't deserve to keep their spots.

Does anyone remember Ward's last senior game?

[The Pie Man]

OK it settled then Wight is our saviour. Already beaten Geelong before we played Sydney. Bugger fixing our midfield problems from last week or our lack of a forward line.

Yeah I did mean to write something like 'as a lead up to a potential prelim match up with..' but neglected to so, my bad. He could play on Goodes.....well he could....maybe not well, but it ...could happen....

Midfield - play Skipper. Hudson isn't fit...or in a trough..or something - play Minson as number 1 ruck, have him compete like he always does, and let Skip play the almost permanent forward. If we were playing someone to fill the opposition forward hole, Will (in the absence of Scott Wynd) would be better than Daniel Cross at it.

Drop Ray/Eagleton for someone like Ward and you exit plenty of frustrating mistakes, and provide that exuberant spark of youth. Imagine how excited Cal would be to find out he's playing a semi, it would be infectious.

[Mantis]

I think you have to rely on the main group of players that got us 3rd spot in the first place. I think its more execution issue more than a quality issue. The midfielder simply have to play better and more like they have been. One or two changes at the most but they aren't wholesale changes.

Already suggested if Hudson fitness means Minson has to ruck more then you might as well bring in a tall forward like Skipper.

Bringing Wight into the side isn't going to make a difference between winning and losing. He is more likely take the place of someone that could influence the midfield or forward lines.

We do.

Have a look at who were our 3 best players in the first 2/3 of the season. Cooney, Aker and Murphy were all on fire and cutting the oppostion apart. We also had Hudson being very influential in the ruck. We need these 4 to find some form and quickly.

As far as the Wight move is concerned (or whoever) I think one of the following have to make way, either Ray, Eagleton or Higgins. Anyone of these could perform well enough to make a difference, but how many chances do we give them?

[1eyedog]

We do.

Have a look at who were our 3 best players in the first 2/3 of the season. Cooney, Aker and Murphy were all on fire and cutting the oppostion apart. We also had Hudson being very influential in the ruck. We need these 4 to find some form and quickly.

As far as the Wight move is concerned (or whoever) I think one of the following have to make way, either Ray, Eagleton or Higgins. Anyone of these could perform well enough to make a difference, but how many chances do we give them?

He has to go IMO

[Stefcep]

If you look at the whole season including the final, the last North match and the Hawthorn match were the only two games where we weren't leading during the match but were chasing the opposition. All the other games that we lost, we were in a winning postion but got beaten in the last quarter.

Geelong - lead by up to two goals at one stage
Carlton - leading at three quarter time and then lost
Lions - threw the game away with bad kicking in the first half -lost by 11 points
Adelaide - pretty even match, lost by 9 points with a couple of dodgy goals and frees.

The North match they jumped us and we played catch up, got to withing 14 points at one stage.

Really the only game that we looked bad the whole match was the Hawks final, yes one of the most important matches of the year.

We do have the talent, and we are down a couple of KPP's, but to my way of thinking every team has a bad day at the office, and Friday was a shocker, however, we have had a pretty good season overall and must bounce back this week.

We have beaten the Swans twice this year and that will give us some confidence. They don't have a big forward line other than bustling Barry, and Lake will go straight to him. Depending on how some of the boys play today at Willy, there may be very few changes for next week. They do have a good ruck combination and can stretch us when they rest them.

Without being too emotional about it and thinking straight, what are your IN's and Outs.

Thats overlerly optimistic:

First match at home against Adelaide, they led by nearly 5 goals at times, and by about 3 or 4 with 5 minutes to play. Missed after the siren
Richmond draw..
StKilda first game killed us in the first half, as did Essendon when McVeigh did his hammy
Collingwood lead for much of the game and missed 2 easy goals when 21 points up and Rocca did his leg when they were on a roll
First match against Swans they kicked themselves out of it in the first half.
True these were evened out in the past 8 weeks where we could have won but didn't. But thats happening at the wrong end of the season
The Swans will have Hall whos getting his head right, O'Laughlin who seems to bag 4 or 5 against us, and Goodes who didn't play last time. It aint gonna be easy...

[Mantis]

The Swans will have Hall whos getting his head right, O'Laughlin who seems to bag 4 or 5 against us, and Goodes who didn't play last time. It aint gonna be easy...

Im pretty sure he has been ruled out.

And if I have learnt anything today it's that those forwards will only be effective if our midfield doesn't fire.

[Scorlibo]

The Swans will have Hall whos getting his head right

:rolleyes: Not a chance of that happening, he seems to have got worse to me, but yes, he is still a dangerous player who played well against the Roos.

[bornadog]

Thats overlerly optimistic:

First match at home against Adelaide, they led by nearly 5 goals at times, and by about 3 or 4 with 5 minutes to play. Missed after the siren
Richmond draw..
StKilda first game killed us in the first half, as did Essendon when McVeigh did his hammy
Collingwood lead for much of the game and missed 2 easy goals when 21 points up and Rocca did his leg when they were on a roll
First match against Swans they kicked themselves out of it in the first half.
True these were evened out in the past 8 weeks where we could have won but didn't. But thats happening at the wrong end of the season
The Swans will have Hall whos getting his head right, O'Laughlin who seems to bag 4 or 5 against us, and Goodes who didn't play last time. It aint gonna be easy...

We still won those games.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Wight's form at Willi has been nothing short of dreadful, and now he's going to come in and stich up a dual Brownlow medalist?



Who are you suggesting we play on Goodes if he goes forward Sockeye?

Who do you see as in the better form of Wight, Everitt and Tiller?

I dont think its a question of expecting them to be anything that they are not, but we dont have many options and we do need one of them in the team

[Mantis]

On watching training today and my gut feel I think they will make one change max., that player being Addison in. Probably drop one of the soft target's like Ray, Harbrow or Callan.

I don't think the match committee will take a risk with there selections by adding in some much needed height in defence, because if it fails they will look silly.

[Go_Dogs]

Did Tiller train today?

I'd be loathe to risk Addison if he isn't ready, but would sure love his hardness against the Swans.

[Mantis]

Did Tiller train today?

I'd be loathe to risk Addison if he isn't ready, but would sure love his hardness against the Swans.

No, only player added to squad was Addison.

[LostDoggy]

Who are you suggesting we play on Goodes if he goes forward Sockeye?

Who do you see as in the better form of Wight, Everitt and Tiller?

I dont think its a question of expecting them to be anything that they are not, but we dont have many options and we do need one of them in the team

Morris or Hargrave. If either of them can't handle Goodes then any of the 3 mentioned won't either.

[Sedat]

Morris or Hargrave. If either of them can't handle Goodes then any of the 3 mentioned won't either.
Franklin is on another plane to everyone else at the moment. He's 6 ft 5, runs like the wind, has cat-like recovery when it hits the deck and can now clunk them in a marking contest. None of Hall, Goodes (in his current state) or Richards (if he drifts forward) possess all of these tools. We have to back Lake, Hargy and Morris in to do the job, and more importantly, we have to back our midfielders to do the job they did not do on Friday night.

[Mantis]

Franklin is on another plane to everyone else at the moment. He's 6 ft 5, runs like the wind, has cat-like recovery when it hits the deck and can now clunk them in a marking contest. None of Hall, Goodes (in his current state) or Richards (if he drifts forward) possess all of these tools. We have to back Lake, Hargy and Morris in to do the job, and more importantly, we have to back our midfielders to do the job they did not do on Friday night.

Or for the last 8 weeks?

[bornadog]

According to Eade today, there will be one or two changes, depending on the match ups with the Swans.

[Mantis]

According to Eade today, there will be one or two changes, depending on the match ups with the Swans.

Hinted that Hall, Goodes, O'Keefe and possibly Richards could be a concern so you would hope that they bring in a tall defender.

Should bring a smile to Ernie's dial.;)

[Desipura]

Hinted that Hall, Goodes, O'Keefe and possibly Richards could be a concern so you would hope that they bring in a tall defender.

Should bring a smile to Ernie's dial.;)
Your wish will come true with Wight coming in:rolleyes:

[Sockeye Salmon]

Your wish will come true with Wight coming in:rolleyes:

If Sydney leave Richards in the backline we will be playing 1 short.

[Mantis]

Your wish will come true with Wight coming in:rolleyes:

Honestly I would prefer we play Everitt, was just using Wight as the example.

[bornadog]

In: TILLER

Out: RAY

Official

[Mantis]

In: TILLER

Out: RAY

Official

Weak as piss.

[bornadog]

Weak as piss.

Yep..........................

http://westernbulldogs.com.au/tabid/4112/Default.aspx?newsid=67503

[DOG GOD]

If thats the case i feel for Ray, and its looking more likely that he's played his last match.

I wouldve brought Ward in for Higgins as well coz he is obviously not match fit.

[Desipura]

I was just about to post that Tiller is in for Ray. I have also been told that Wight will be coming in. My guess would be at the expense of Higgins who may not come up.

[The Underdog]

Um yeah, not exactly inspiring. I understand why Farren would be pissed. Wonder if he'll turn out for Willy this week.

[The Underdog]

I was just about to post that Tiller is in for Ray. I have also been told that Wight will be coming in. My guess would be at the expense of Higgins who may not come up.

He's not a listed emergency so it would cost us good money for a pointless ruse.

[Sedat]

Ray was twice as good against Hawthorn as Tiller was in his last 3-4 matches this season (and that's saying something). Has the match commitee forgotten how shocking Tiller was against Sydney and North late in the season?

Ray's shocker at least involved him getting a lot of the ball and trying to be constructive for the team - Tiller's 3-4 shockers in a row were all less than 10 possession specials. And at 191 cms, I don't see how he will add all that much 'height' to our backline. On the plus side he is a very strong tackler, which we were desperately lacking last week.

Looks like Ray is now lost to the club. I for one will be disappointed if this transpires as expected. We are now painfully short of running power in our midfield and it will be yet another weakness we need to address in the off-season.

[Ozza]

As bad as Ray was last week and as disappointing as he's been - he's a far better option than Tiller who I don't think is even close to being up to playing AFL football.

Disappointing an uninspired. Would rather see Callan Ward give us a bit of enthusiasm and dare I say it (about an 18y.o) - toughness at the ball!

[bornadog]

WESTERN BULLDOGS v SYDNEY SWANS
Western Bulldogs
B: Dale Morris, BrianLake, Tim Callan
HB: Lindsay Gilbee, Ryan Hargrave, Jason Akermanis
C: Nathan Eagleton, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Robert Murphy, Mitch Hahn, Brad Johnson
F: Josh Hill, Will Minson, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Ryan Griffen
I/C: Jarrod Harbrow, Shaun Higgins, Daniel Giansiracusa, Stephen Tiller
EMG: Andrejs Everitt, Farren Ray, Callan Ward

In: Tiller
Out: Farren Ray

[Mantis]

Ray was twice as good against Hawthorn as Tiller was in his last 3-4 matches this season (and that's saying something). Has the match commitee forgotten how shocking Tiller was against Sydney and North late in the season?

Ray's shocker at least involved him getting a lot of the ball and trying to be constructive for the team - Tiller's 3-4 shockers in a row were all less than 10 possession specials. And at 191 cms, I don't see how he will add all that much 'height' to our backline. On the plus side he is a very strong tackler, which we were desperately lacking last week.

Looks like Ray is now lost to the club. I for one will be disappointed if this transpires as expected. We are now painfully short of running power in our midfield and it will be yet another weakness we need to address in the off-season.

Agree with all that.

On watching the game 3 times and as bad as Ray was I don't think he was his worst.

We must be picking our team on the basis of last in first out and Tiller, **** me I would have Everitt and Wight well before him, but what do I know??

I'm more pissed off now than I was leaving the ground last Friday (but I had had a dozen stubbies then)

[BulldogBelle]

Does anyone know if Ray is out of contract at the end of the season?

Wonder what Freo or the Eagles could offer us in return?

Bad decision maker, too skinny, outside player, constactly puts other players under pressure...have only seen him play 1/2 dozen 'great' games. And we used pick # 4 in a national draft for him (argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Sorry to bag him and be negative but after a quite a few of his displays this season, and his lack of development, I think others should be given more of an opportunuity.

[bornadog]

Does anyone know if Ray is out of contract at the end of the season?

Wonder what Freo or the Eagles could offer us in return?

Bad decision maker, too skinny, outside player, constactly puts other players under pressure...have only seen him play 1/2 dozen 'great' games. And we used pick # 4 in a national draft for him (argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Sorry to bag him and be negative but after a quite a few of his displays this season, and his lack of development, I think others should be given more of an opportunuity.

He is out of contract and was waiting for the end of season before he resigned

[macca]

He is out of contract and was waiting for the end of season before he resigned

thats perfect timing, we really got screwed with him. We will get nothing for him at PSD.

Neil Craig will pick him up because he will fit the gut running style that they are after.

[Scraggers]

thats perfect timing, we really got screwed with him. We will get nothing for him at PSD.

Neil Craig will pick him up because he will fit the gut running style that they are after.

How about Farren Ray for Robbie Warnock and pick 60(ish) ?

Possible ?