Official 2008 Draft/Trade Thread

[Bulldogs_6]

The time has almost come, so I figured some intelligent discussion on the matter could concur ASAP. It has been a long season, but unfortunately I think that loss over the weekend allowed it to come to a close.

Is there anyone in YOUR opinion who you think we should trade/trade for? What is the best option for us coming out of the draft, is Ayce Cordy a given?

In my opinion Ayce Cordy should be locked in, he is another project forward with loads of talent. I would also like to see atleast another midfielder and a Key position backman, because it seems in times like these we're struggling for one of those.

What other activity can we see happening from other clubs?

Discuss.

[Mantis]

Lets just wait til the season finishes.

[Bulldogs_6]

Lets just wait til the season finishes.

Bit premature, I know, but why not have a discussion about this topic?? Not exactly going to effect the team's peformance which is inevitable that they win :D

[The Coon Dog]

Alot depends on what's on offer doesn't it. For example, if Hawthorn offered up Tim Boyle for Farren Ray, we'd say that wasn't enough, but if they offered up Buddy for him, we'd snatch their arms off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most players could be traded, dependant upon what was traded in return.

I wouldn't trade the following players because I'd want to keep them or *there would be no value for them:

Robert Murphy
Callan Ward
Lindsay Gilbee
Ryan Griffen
Adam Cooney
Josh Hill
Brian Lake
Dale Morris
Andrejs Everitt
Tom Williams
*Brad Johnson
*Scott West
*Jason Akermanis
*Tim Callan
*Ben Hudson
*Scott Welsh
*Nathan Eagleton

I would be reluctant to trade these, but would if the right offer came along:

Farren Ray
Daniel Cross
Matthew Boyd
Mitch Hahn
Daniel Giansiracusa
Shaun Higgins
Dylan Addison
Ryan Hargrave
Will Minson
Jarrod Harbrow

Of these, then there would have to be some pretty good offers on the table. Please don't read into this that I want to trade these players, I DON'T, but if an offer too good to refuse was made...

I would definitely consider trading:

Malcolm Lynch
Wayde Skipper
Peter Street
Cameron Wight
Stephen Tiller

Then there are the Pups who are exempt from this exercise to some degree:

Jarrad Boumann
Jarrad Grant
Guy O'Keefe
Paul O'Shea
Sam Reid
Brennan Stack
Easton Wood

[Happy Days]

I would definitely consider trading:

Malcolm Lynch
Wayde Skipper
Peter Street
Cameron Wight
Stephen Tiller


Who would want any of these players?

We would be lucky to get pick #200 for Wight or Tiller, and no one would take the other 3 because they could pick them up in one of the drafts after we delist them for nothing. You've got to give a little to get a little.

I like the idea of Tim Boyle. Hawthorn can't seem to find a spot for him and we could get him for a lot less than what we were looking at paying last trade period. Perhaps our third rounder could get it done.

[The Coon Dog]

Who would want any of these players?

We would be lucky to get pick #200 for Wight or Tiller, and no one would take the other 3 because they could pick them up in one of the drafts after we delist them for nothing. You've got to give a little to get a little.

I like the idea of Tim Boyle. Hawthorn can't seem to find a spot for him and we could get him for a lot less than what we were looking at paying last trade period. Perhaps our third rounder could get it done.

Fair points too.

I wouldn't touch Tim Boyle. He's 3rd banana at Hawthorn at the moment & did OK when playing as the 3rd tall in some games last season, but no way he's a number 1 tall target, even if his Dad did play 6 games for Footscray.

[Mantis]

Who would want any of these players?

We would be lucky to get pick #200 for Wight or Tiller, and no one would take the other 3 because they could pick them up in one of the drafts after we delist them for nothing. You've got to give a little to get a little.

I like the idea of Tim Boyle. Hawthorn can't seem to find a spot for him and we could get him for a lot less than what we were looking at paying last trade period. Perhaps our third rounder could get it done.

I wouldn't really worry about this list.

The reluctant to trade list is where the serious trading could take place, as these guys have value.

TCD, pretty good work on the lists too, can't disagree with many of your choices.

[hujsh]

Alot depends on what's on offer doesn't it. For example, if Hawthorn offered up Tim Boyle for Farren Ray, we'd say that wasn't enough, but if they offered up Buddy for him, we'd snatch their arms off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most players could be traded, dependant upon what was traded in return.

I wouldn't trade the following players because I'd want to keep them or *there would be no value for them:

Robert Murphy
Callan Ward
Lindsay Gilbee
Ryan Griffen
Adam Cooney
Josh Hill
Brian Lake
Dale Morris
Andrejs Everitt
Tom Williams
*Brad Johnson
*Scott West
*Jason Akermanis
*Tim Callan
*Ben Hudson
*Scott Welsh
*Nathan Eagleton


Who cares if we get little for him. Happy to let him sabotage a team from the inside

[The Coon Dog]

Who cares if we get little for him. Happy to let him sabotage a team from the inside


We wouldn't get anything for him hujsh, that's why he's in that list.

[hujsh]

We wouldn't get anything for him hujsh, that's why he's in that list.

I'd reckon someone might make a spot for him.

[The Pie Man]

I'd reckon someone might make a spot for him.

Who might look for a top up? ........ RICHMOND!!!! Wallace traded for him originally....

[Sedat]

I wouldn't touch Tim Boyle. He's 3rd banana at Hawthorn at the moment & did OK when playing as the 3rd tall in some games last season, but no way he's a number 1 tall target, even if his Dad did play 6 games for Footscray.
Boyle's career is far worse than Scott Welsh's and we have him already. In fact his career is sub-par even compared to someone like Brad Fisher. He is a spud, plain and simple, and Pelchan would not be able to get rid of him quick enough if a half decent trade offer came their way.

Pelchan lucked in when he traded away Nathan Thompson for a 1st and 2nd rounder, and then the following year he got 2 first-rounders for Jon Hay. Now he tries to rape and pillage every club that attempts to deal with Hawthorn. A bit like when nobody wanted to deal with Sheeds any more because he kept screwing everyone.

[Sedat]

I'd be interested in Daniel Harris. You can't have enough inside contested ball-winning midfielders in your side and he would cost a whole lot less than Kerr while essentially performing the same function (albeit not quite at the same level). Safe to say he is on the nose with Laidley and will be looking for a new home in 2009.

[The Coon Dog]

I'd be interested in Daniel Harris. You can't have enough inside contested ball-winning midfielders in your side and he would cost a whole lot less than Kerr while essentially performing the same function (albeit not quite at the same level). Safe to say he is on the nose with Laidley and will be looking for a new home in 2009.
Maybe they could return the favour & send him our way for a similar pick to what we received for Sam Power.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Harris is a good player, but another slow midfielder who doesn't have the best skills? Is it what we need at this stage? I find it hard to see a midfield of Cross, Boyd & Harris working.

Good player though.

[Desipura]

When we are looking at players from other clubs, we need to look at players who have not yet reached their peak for various reasons. This way we do not pay way over the top for them.
A point in case is Ryan Gamble who will struggle to play regualr footy at the cats. Entice him to the kennel with the assurance if he trains hard he will be given every opportuinity to make it as a regular.
I have stated previously Dowler and Newton from Melbourne and Mitch Clark are others I would target off the top of my head.
Brereton is a big fan of Ryan Murphy of Freo who has not shown much so far in his career. Freo have a history of letting go players who go on to become very good players in the right environment.

Thoughts?

[LostDoggy]

When we are looking at players from other clubs, we need to look at players who have not yet reached their peak for various reasons. This way we do not pay way over the top for them.
A point in case is Ryan Gamble who will struggle to play regualr footy at the cats. Entice him to the kennel with the assurance if he trains hard he will be given every opportuinity to make it as a regular.
I have stated previously Dowler and Newton from Melbourne and Mitch Clark are others I would target off the top of my head.
Brereton is a big fan of Ryan Murphy of Freo who has not shown much so far in his career. Freo have a history of letting go players who go on to become very good players in the right environment.

Thoughts?

We dont need players like Ryan Murphy. We need a player who can take a contested grab,not another lead up type. Plus he has no ticker.
Yes Freo have let a few good players go over the years eg Medhurst, Clement.
I thought we should have gone after Medhurst instead of Aker back in 06.

[Desipura]

We dont need players like Ryan Murphy. We need a player who can take a contested grab,not another lead up type. Plus he has no ticker.
Yes Freo have let a few good players go over the years eg Medhurst, Clement.
I thought we should have gone after Medhurst instead of Aker back in 06.
You forgot to mention Peter Bell as well. Agree we need a player who can take a contested mark. Listening to Derm who I believe is a very good judge, he believes Murphy has the makings of being a very good allround player.

[westdog54]

We dont need players like Ryan Murphy. We need a player who can take a contested grab,not another lead up type. Plus he has no ticker.
Yes Freo have let a few good players go over the years eg Medhurst, Clement.
I thought we should have gone after Medhurst instead of Aker back in 06.

Like Welsh?

[The Coon Dog]

Jerry & anyone else in WA,

Tarrant seems to have stunted the development of Campbell at Freo. What's he like?

[Scraggers]

Jerry & anyone else in WA,

Tarrant seems to have stunted the development of Campbell at Freo. What's he like?

He only played five games this season ... notibly he kicked three goals against St. Kilda ... but in a season where Harvey wanted to blood as many youngsters as possible, I would have thouht he would have played more games

He is doing okay for his WAFL club West Perth ... average 14 posessions a match and he kicked 10 goals in one match against Peel Thunder ...

Other than that I really haven't heard much about him this season; and I am unsure of his contractual situation with Freo.

[The Underdog]

Listening to Derm who I believe is a very good judge, he believes Murphy has the makings of being a very good allround player.

What I've seen of Murphy is strictly a lead up half forward who is a bit part player at best. Has size but doesn't really use it. Hasn't really taken any of the opportunities he's had at Freo even when Pavlich or Tarrant have been out of the side. Wouldn't be holding out too much hope that he'd turn that around somewhere else.

[Bulldogs_6]

Definitely see something in Ryan Murphy the only problem with him is that as someone said he doesn't really have the desire to compete at AFL level. Would go for him cheap, though.

[Dogs 24/7]

I thought it worthwhile to have a review on our list and nominate some of the changes I would make.

Rookie list
It's time to settle this list down a bit and see if we can't develop a player or two from it. Harbrow, Morris and Boyd have all done well once promoted.
Currently we have 4 players listed although Gavin Hughes couldn't commit to it.
James Mulligan is raw but at 199cm tall and very mobile he should be maintained.
Henry White came over as a very skinny kid but from what I have heard has added a bit of size should also be maintained.
John Shaw has carried injuries all season and is a difficult decision and despite him being a far better ruckman than Mulligan I would be tempted to let him go.

That leaves two spots on the Rookie list and I suggest that we should offer these spots to two current listed players that haven't developed as quickly as we hoped in Malcolm Lynch and Paul O'Shea. This might not be accepted by either or both of them but I think it's their only real chance to stay in the system.
This would give us a full compliment of Rookie listed players and a nice balance of a ruckman, a key defender, a pacy forward and a midfielder.
Shaw would be maintained if either Lynch or O'Shea knocked back the move to the rookie list.

Delistings and Retirements
Andrew McDougall - left us late in the season after not reaching his potential. With our team lacking height it's a shame that he just didn't make it and grasp his chance.
Peter Street - This might sound harsh because Street hasn't done too much wrong but it's just that I don't think he has the confidence of the coach and his best just isn't sustainable at the senior level. If we are not going to use him then we simply shouldn't keep him as a depth player. We will need to replace him though.
Wayde Skipper - Another long term project player that for a variety of reasons just can't establish himself as a senior player. His best position is as a mobile ruckman but at 193cm tall this isn't a viable long term solution. As a key forward he just isn't strong enough with his marking to hold that position. Like Street, we will need to replace Skipper with a back up ruckman
Scott West - It's with a sad heart that I put his name forward to retire but given the way our list has faded in the last part of the year and the fact that the curtain will be dropping on a number of other players in the very near future we need him to make the right decision here.

With O'Shea and Lynch moving to the rookie list and losing these four we now have six positions that we can fill during the trade and draft periods.
The guys that are very lucky to survive include Eagleton and Wight and in fact it wouldn't be a great time to be coming out of contract for either of them.
If Street still has a year to go and Wight is out of contract them Street could very well be the lucky man and Wight could miss out.

So we lose 2 ruckman and a key defender plus probably the best midfielder we have ever seen at the club. This has created a number of holes.

Trade period
Trade week tends to be a bit of a fizzer but I suspect we have to be proactive this year to cover some of our needs and shortfalls. We need to find a ruckman and either/or a key forward or defender and we haven't got a lot to bargain with particularly with our first round pick locked in for Cordy.
With that in mind I would nominate two names to see what this potentially could deliver.
It's no secret that Farren Ray hasn't quite measured up and he must have some trade value particularly back in his home state.
Some of the players that could potentially fill a void for us from the West include
David Mundy - who is out of contract and wanting to return to Victoria. Mundy is not the classic KP defender but at 192cm could be used by us much like Andrew Mackie is for the Cats. He is quick enough to be used off the back flank if Williams can string enough games together and would provide additional depth.
Ashley Hansen - has failed to deliver consistently for the Eagles but if we were in anyway confident that he could get through a season them he would be the ideal key forward for us.
Brent Staker is also not holding his spot with the Eagles and at 194cm he could be played as a both a key forward and as a defender.
I think both Fremantle and West Coast would look towards someone like Ray as a good fit for them.
The other player I would shop around, and this might surprise a few, is Matthew Boyd. I have admired what Boyd has been able to do for himself and the club but he is a duplication of Cross and he would hold some currency out in the market.
Essendon has gone down a youth list and made the hard decision on a number of players but I believe that they will need to add an experienced and durable leader to the team and Boyd might very well hold a lot of interest for them.
Jason Laycock might not have made a big impression on a lot of people but moving to a second club might be the right tonic for him. As a back up to Hudson and Minson we would not necessarily need him to slot in straight away. He could be used just to cover injuries but it's the sort of depth in the rucking position that we must cover. I know he has signed another contract but I don't think the Bombers wouldn't listen to reasonable offers.

North Melbourne also hold no fears on recruiting players from other clubs if they fill a need and with Shannon Grant moving on plus the aging Simpson a player like Boyd might be highly regarded.
North have a few talls that might be out of favour including Hamish McIntosh and the much maligned Leigh Brown. Even Corey Jones also seem to be struggling to hold his spot.
Whilst the Hawks have Mitch Thorp kicking around at Box Hill I don't believe that we have the right players to offer them to get the deal done

None of these names will necessarily change things around for us and I'm certainly not proposing that straight swaps will get the deal done because in some cases we might have to give a bit or get a bit more but both Ray and Boyd seem to be the most expendable players we have.
Losing one of them will be hard enough but losing both of them will really test our midfield depth.
With that in mind we might look to draft a couple of more mature recruits.

Draft
With our first pick locked in for Ayce Cordy we will have our first live pick around the 30 mark. This would be a hard pick to trade so we should use it to fill our most pressing need list wise. Forget about best available here and just cover our needs.
However with losing two experienced midfielders we must use some of our next selections on more mature recruits.

Two players have had solid seasons that spring to mind
From what I am hearing is that Liam Anthony from WA has a touch of Bradd Dalziell about him and could play senior foot next season if required. He is 186cm tall and about 85kg so he is no skinny kid that would need a couple seasons to develop.
Seamus Young will be 23 next year but is very much regarded as a talented and quick forward.

I think there are a few others running around the state leagues that could come in and play senior football for the right club.
Does anyone have other ideas or suggestions on players that they will put forward ?

[The Underdog]

We dont need players like Ryan Murphy. We need a player who can take a contested grab,not another lead up type. Plus he has no ticker.
Yes Freo have let a few good players go over the years eg Medhurst, Clement.
I thought we should have gone after Medhurst instead of Aker back in 06.

We don't do too well with ex Freo players ie Bandy, Wills, Koops. Agree with you about Murphy though, he'd spend more time at Willy than in the ones. Medhurst was a good call by the Pies in hindsight but was a throw in at the time and had spent most of the previous year in the WAFL. Not such a good call by Freo considering they've just retired Farmer.

[hujsh]

I'd give West another go before I'd retain Eagle.

[LostDoggy]

Jerry & anyone else in WA,

Tarrant seems to have stunted the development of Campbell at Freo. What's he like?

He is a strong grab, nice mover and has a bit of mongrel in him. He is one of those players you watch every 6 wks and think ''why arnt u better than you are"??. Not sure if Freo would let him go cheaply. Type of player you would like to get in the PSD.

Living in the wild west i get to see a lot of FReo and WCE. As for David Mundy, i wouldnt spend $2 on him. He is a classic "dan Bandy' type player.

Staker- maybe, but he would cost too much. Not sure if he is putting 100% into footy.

Hansen-Not really what we need. He is a lead up CHF and is injury prone.

PS-Watched Yarran and Natanui play on the weekend and they were both impressive.

[GVGjr]

Staker- maybe, but he would cost too much. Not sure if he is putting 100% into footy.



Why would Staker cost too much?

[Sedat]

Why would Staker cost too much?
Just signed a 2 year deal if I'm not mistaken, so WC would not let him go unless it was above his market worth.

I think we are hunting in the right city but not the right player. Not interested in the likes of Jaymie Graham, Ash Hansen, Brent Staker, David Mundy, Ben McKinley or Ryan Murphy - they would all command wortth in excess of their ability and none of them really address any of our key weaknesses. Who I would not mind us having a crack at is Matt Spangher. He's spent most of his career to date injured (OP and shoulders), has only recently come into the WC team, is a nice height and moves very well for a tall defender - plenty of upside there. Is a Melbourne lad and has one more year to run on his contract. WC might be tempted to trade him now rather than risk losing him for nothing next year. He won't cost anywhere near as much as any of the Freo or WC KPP retreads mentioned already in this thread.

[The Coon Dog]

Thanks for that Scraggers & jerry. Much appreciated.

[Mantis]

Just signed a 2 year deal if I'm not mistaken, so WC would not let him go unless it was above his market worth.

I think we are hunting in the right city but not the right player. Not interested in the likes of Jaymie Graham, Ash Hansen, Brent Staker, David Mundy, Ben McKinley or Ryan Murphy - they would all command wortth in excess of their ability and none of them really address any of our key weaknesses. Who I would not mind us having a crack at is Matt Spangher. He's spent most of his career to date injured (OP and shoulders), has only recently come into the WC team, is a nice height and moves very well for a tall defender - plenty of upside there. Is a Melbourne lad and has one more year to run on his contract. WC might be tempted to trade him now rather than risk losing him for nothing next year. He won't cost anywhere near as much as any of the Freo or WC KPP retreads mentioned already in this thread.

Would us chasing him depend on what we do with Wight and O'Shea? I know we have struggled in the 2nd half of the year for tall defender's, but if Williams can get himself fit and Everitt put on some size we should be ok in this area.

[Bulldogs_6]

IMO Adam Campbell is very much worth a look at, would definitely involve Farren Ray in a trade there.

[Sedat]

Would us chasing him depend on what we do with Wight and O'Shea? I know we have struggled in the 2nd half of the year for tall defender's, but if Williams can get himself fit and Everitt put on some size we should be ok in this area.
It would, but I suspect that Wight's papers have been stamped having played only one game since Round 8 despite the paucity of talls down back late in the season. As for O'Shea, talk is his spot on the senior list is doubtful as well (possibly downgraded to the rookie list). So that would mean Lake, Williams and Everitt are the only 3 genuine key defenders on our senior list - would not mind another one, especially considering Everitt has shown he is not yet ready to assume a key defensive post and Williams is a veteran of all of 17 senior games.

[Mantis]

It would, but I suspect that Wight's papers have been stamped having played only one game since Round 8 despite the paucity of talls down back late in the season. As for O'Shea, talk is his spot on the senior list is doubtful as well (possibly downgraded to the rookie list). So that would mean Lake, Williams and Everitt are the only 3 genuine key defenders on our senior list - would not mind another one, especially considering Everitt has shown he is not yet ready to assume a key defensive post and Williams is a veteran of all of 17 senior games.


Going to be intersting times ahead... Can't wait.

[craigsahibee]

Who would want any of these players?

We would be lucky to get pick #200 for Wight or Tiller, and no one would take the other 3 because they could pick them up in one of the drafts after we delist them for nothing. You've got to give a little to get a little.

I like the idea of Tim Boyle. Hawthorn can't seem to find a spot for him and we could get him for a lot less than what we were looking at paying last trade period. Perhaps our third rounder could get it done.

He's just another flanker type. Not worth considering IMHO.

[dog town]

I just thought I would give my take on the guys listed so far in this thread.


Staker- I have heard a few of the WA media types say he in a guy the Eagles are likely to move on. Not sure what the asking price would be. Biggest plus for us with this guy is that he has a little bit of versatility so can be used at both ends. Not great at either end but he has a bit to work with. Certainly wouldn't pay alot for him.

Hansen- Certainly worth considering but my gut says they would want more than he is worth. He is a premiership CHF but injuries have hurt him and he is a little bit one dimensional. He plays Rob Murphy's role and while he is taller in cm's, he certainly doesn't play taller. I would have him because you can never have too many dangerous forwards but cost is the issue. In our favour is the fact that they have Kennedy who is a different type but will play a similar role.

Campbell- Big lumbering forward with a nice long kick. Takes marks in clutches then goes missing. You will see him flash into a game and take 3 or 4 marks then not be seen the rest of the game.

Murphy- Immensely talented and a perfect size. No intensity or physicality would be a nice way of putting his flaws. He can run and jump with the best of them. When he was a semi regular member of the side he did occasionally take some decent marks. They were mainly of the jump from behind variety as opposed to the stand up in a pack variety. No thanks from me. Probably the most talented but I dont see us getting it out of him any more than Freo could.

McIntosh- Wont be traded and would cost over the odds if he was.

Jones- Had an injury plagued year. He is a better player than his form this year indicated. Would be another dangerous forward but plays a similar style to Hahn.

Spangher- Wouldn't mind this if it came at the right price. Was reasonably highly rated as a junior and is a good size.

Mundy- Would love to get him but Freo would ask for our first round pick and that cant happen at the moment. Would slot into our back 6 nicely and free up other players.

Laycock- Not really what we need in a big bloke.

Thorpe- Wont happen. Hawks rate him very highly.

I certainly dont think we should place all our eggs in the TALLS basket. We need some run and carry to give us that edge again. Lovett was always going to come into the frame for us once the season finished. He is a no brainer as far as I am concerned depending on cost. Rocket thought enough of him to tag him.

I wouldn't think we will do a great deal of trading unless deals absolutely jump out at us.

[craigsahibee]

Any interest from us with regards to Warnock at Freo?

[The Underdog]

Any interest from us with regards to Warnock at Freo?

I think the bidding will be too high from teams who can give up more than we can/are better placed in the PSD.

For anyone who was interested in Laycock he's just signed for 2 more years.

I think we'll struggle to pick up a decent ruck option but I think it'll be the end for one of Street or Skip and both if we can bring another backup option in.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I thought it worthwhile to have a review on our list and nominate some of the changes I would make.

Draft
With our first pick locked in for Ayce Cordy we will have our first live pick around the 30 mark. This would be a hard pick to trade so we should use it to fill our most pressing need list wise. Forget about best available here and just cover our needs.
However with losing two experienced midfielders we must use some of our next selections on more mature recruits.

Is it a fair certainty that we will have to use our first pick on Ayce? It's going to be interesting given Ayce is rated very highly by many recruiters. This looms as the first real test of the tender system for Father/Sons, in terms of teams nominating a 1st round to secure him?
Is it possible we may still nab him with our 2nd or even 3rd round?
Hypothetically, if we were to be able to utilise a pick other than our 1st round for Ayce this would open up an opportunity to effectively choose another top rated talent with our 1st rounder.
Is it wishful thinking of me to believe this scenario could play out?

[GVGjr]

Is it a fair certainty that we will have to use our first pick on Ayce? It's going to be interesting given Ayce is rated very highly by many recruiters. This looms as the first real test of the tender system for Father/Sons, in terms of teams nominating a 1st round to secure him?
Is it possible we may still nab him with our 2nd or even 3rd round?
Hypothetically, if we were to be able to utilise a pick other than our 1st round for Ayce this would open up an opportunity to effectively choose another top rated talent with our 1st rounder.
Is it wishful thinking of me to believe this scenario could play out?

I'd just about put money on the fact that we will need to use our first pick on Cordy.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'd just about put money on the fact that we will need to use our first pick on Cordy.

Dang! Just when we look like getting our hands on a great father son pick.... the new system comes and bites us. Ole Geelong really made hay while the sun shined getting Hawkins for a 3rd rounder and using pick 4 to get Selwood.....
The Father son salad days are over!!

[GVGjr]

Dang! Just when we look like getting our hands on a great father son pick.... the new system comes and bites us. Ole Geelong really made hay while the sun shined getting Hawkins for a 3rd rounder and using pick 4 to get Selwood.....
The Father son salad days are over!!

I think we discussed this a while back and a number of people here thought it was a fair system but it's not. The 2nd round pick was a fair price to pay.

[remster]

I reckon Farren Ray can go home to Perth , get rid of him .

[remster]

Make a play for Warnock perhaps !

[The Coon Dog]

I think we discussed this a while back and a number of people here thought it was a fair system but it's not. The 2nd round pick was a fair price to pay.

It used to be the 3rd round pick.

[GVGjr]

It used to be the 3rd round pick.

I meant to say 'a fairer price'.

Too many bargains by paying just a 3rd round pick
A 2nd round pick would be a fairer price though

[FrediKanoute]

Definitely see something in Ryan Murphy the only problem with him is that as someone said he doesn't really have the desire to compete at AFL level. Would go for him cheap, though.

Ryan Murphy sounds like a McDougall......physcially hs is a footballer, but he lacks two things a top footballer needs:

1.Heart; and
2.Footy Brain.

Would pass on him. He's been shopped around for a couple of years and given Tarrant's problems and Freo underperforming I would have thought that he would have shown somehting this year.

[GVGjr]

Any interest from us with regards to Warnock at Freo?

Would could we offer to get him?

Warnock would want to go to Melbourne for a couple of reasons.
1 - He can play in the same team as his brother
2 - He gets to be number 1 ruckman

And I suppose it drags up the question of why would he want to come to the Dogs and play 2nd or 3rd fiddle to Hudson and/or Minson.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I meant to say 'a fairer price'.

Too many bargains by paying just a 3rd round pick
A 2nd round pick would be a fairer price though

That's OK for the stars, but what about the kids who want to play for their dad's club but are only also-rans.

Richmond should have been able to F/S Patrick Bowden for a low pick.

[bulldogtragic]

Mundy, Warnock, Tarrant, Murphy.

Any interest in any of them?

[GVGjr]

That's OK for the stars, but what about the kids who want to play for their dad's club but are only also-rans.

Richmond should have been able to F/S Patrick Bowden for a low pick.

We are never going to reach an agreement on this but I still think the 2nd round is a reasonable price to pay over all the father son selections. You pay a fair price and yet you don't get an out and out bargain except in some instances.
I still don't get why another team should be able to bid for the son of say Scott Wynd?
We should either agree to the selection or take our chances of getting him in the draft in the 3rd or 4th rounds etc

[ledge]

Well Warnock wants to come to Melb, Ray maybe go back to WA and i just read Bond is trying to lure Cameron over to Freo.
Ray and Cameron to Freo for Warnock!
Sounds good to me.

[Mofra]

Would us chasing him depend on what we do with Wight and O'Shea? I know we have struggled in the 2nd half of the year for tall defender's, but if Williams can get himself fit and Everitt put on some size we should be ok in this area.
Two big ifs. Williams hasn't shown he is durable enough to play a complete season at any level of AFL football besides a shorter schoolboy level in a non-AFL state.
Everitt may just have a case of 2nd year blues - I don't think he'll be physically ready to play a real CHB role for another few years, given talls take longer to develop and he was drafted as a skinny tall at that.

We need a CHB desperately and realistically don't have anyone on the list who can play the role in 2009. At this stage, I'd consider a C/D-grader who has enough ticker just to make a contest.

[The Underdog]

Well Warnock wants to come to Melb, Ray maybe go back to WA and i just read Bond is trying to lure Cameron over to Freo.
Ray and Cameron to Freo for Warnock!
Sounds good to me.

Do you mean Leon Cameron? I'm pretty sure his days of being involved in trades are over.

[Mantis]

Two big ifs. Williams hasn't shown he is durable enough to play a complete season at any level of AFL football besides a shorter schoolboy level in a non-AFL state.

Everitt may just have a case of 2nd year blues - I don't think he'll be physically ready to play a real CHB role for another few years, given talls take longer to develop and he was drafted as a skinny tall at that.

We need a CHB desperately and realistically don't have anyone on the list who can play the role in 2009. At this stage, I'd consider a C/D-grader who has enough ticker just to make a contest.

You just mentioned 2 who realistically could play the role. The definition of the CHB role also needs to be clarified as how many 'true' CHF's are there? I think the better term is tall defender's and we need to have 3 of these playing. I think Lake, Williams and Everitt will comfortably fill these roles for us next year.

[GVGjr]

Mundy, Warnock, Tarrant, Murphy.

Any interest in any of them?

Mundy yes but he isn't the key defender that we really need.

I'm not as keen on the other three and I'd be surprised if we could really get Tarrant at a reasonable price.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think the better term is tall defender's and we need to have 3 of these playing. I think Lake, Williams and Everitt will comfortably fill these roles for us next year.

Lake's form this year has been worrying though. His continual brain lapses have cost us big time. He hasn't played nearly close enough to his opponents all year and he's turned the ball over regularly. I still think he's a good defender, but he needs to work harder - perhaps once he gets some assistance it'll be a weight off his shoulders, though.

Williams would be absolutely fantastic for us, his improvement from game to game is quite impressive, but one has to question whether he'll ever play a full season without setbacks. His potential is enormous, but his body is a struggle and relying solely on him would be dangerous.

Everitt has had an ordinary year, but he's still going to be a fine player. I personally think he's going to take another two seasons though. He's still got a lot to learn and he has to bulk up considerably. I would expect improvement, but along with Williams, I don't think we can be relying on him to help hold up our key backs.

The 'potential' is quite mouth watering should the above three play quality football, but for various reasons (injuries, inexperience) I doubt whether they'll be able to do the job next year for us. Realistically we're going to have to settle for that and continue to develop the latter two, but I wouldn't mind seeing us either draft a mature age player (eg. Harry Taylor type) or trade for a 'stop gap' until we're capable of sending Everitt etc. out to battle. Spangher is an interesting option and I suppose Graham will come into considerations too.

[LostDoggy]

I cant believe this fascination with David Mundy! He is heading towards the most overrated player in the comp just because he is out of contract and moving home.
He hasnt improved since his first season. He often chooses the wrong option (on when to run and carry/ or when to kick) and doesnt seem to have a natural feel for the state of the game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Mundy would be a decent inclusion but his asking price would probably be reasonably high. Drafted Pick #19 if I recall correctly? He's done pretty well to date. Our only chance is packaging a draft pick with Ray for Mundy, and even then, I'm not particularly sure that would favour us.

I still think Lovett is worth chasing - unaware of what Essendon will ultimately be after. His pace, run & carry and disposal are something we desperately need through the midfield. His attitude problems are a worry though, and obviously the club would need to consider the risks involved. As a player though - he's what we need outside of some tall timber.

[bornadog]

Lake's form this year has been worrying though. His continual brain lapses have cost us big time. .

Can't agree with a blanket statement like that. He has turned the ball over on occassion, but we haven't lost a game due to it. I think big time is an over exageration.
Lake has been under extreme pressure being the only tall in the backline since Wight and Williams went out.

[ledge]

Do you mean Leon Cameron? I'm pretty sure his days of being involved in trades are over.

I can dream though.

[MrMahatma]

Two big ifs. Williams hasn't shown he is durable enough to play a complete season at any level of AFL football besides a shorter schoolboy level in a non-AFL state.
Everitt may just have a case of 2nd year blues - I don't think he'll be physically ready to play a real CHB role for another few years, given talls take longer to develop and he was drafted as a skinny tall at that.

We need a CHB desperately and realistically don't have anyone on the list who can play the role in 2009. At this stage, I'd consider a C/D-grader who has enough ticker just to make a contest.

FWIW - Williams hasn't had a full pre-season yet. He's been put out to pasture early this year, and had his operation, so should be able to get full conditioning over summer, which will help a load with the soft tissue injuries he's had. I'm pretty confident that next year will be a full season for Tom.

[Desipura]

Ray has had a falling out with Rocket on the weekend. It it highly likely he has played his last game at the Dogs.

[LostDoggy]

Ray has had a falling out with Rocket on the weekend. It it highly likely he has played his last game at the Dogs.

What do you base this on? It's not surprising the Ray got a spray from the coach after his last performance. People on these forums cast aspersions about Grant, Boumann say Ray's not committed, the team don't get along with Aker, never back up their statements. How much of this stuff is truth and how much is 1 + 1 = 3?

[Go_Dogs]

What do you base this on? It's not surprising the Ray got a spray from the coach after his last performance. People on these forums cast aspersions about Grant, Boumann say Ray's not committed, the team don't get along with Aker, never back up their statements. How much of this stuff is truth and how much is 1 + 1 = 3?

FWIW Desipura is usually on the money.

Not a good week for something like this to develop.

[Mantis]

What do you base this on? It's not surprising the Ray got a spray from the coach after his last performance. People on these forums cast aspersions about Grant, Boumann say Ray's not committed, the team don't get along with Aker, never back up their statements. How much of this stuff is truth and how much is 1 + 1 = 3?

I think you would find that people on this forum in particular have facts to back up there stories.

[LostDoggy]

I think you would find that people on this forum in particular have facts to back up there stories.

If thats the case, we are going to lose a pick 4 for probably nothing (WC and Fremantle have picks 2 & 3 for uncontracted players), and are top 2 young talls have attitude problems. I have been following the gods for all of my 37 years and am sick of the bad news and disappointment, where is the good news folks? Clubs trade on hope and I am gradually losing all hope that I will see a premiership.

[DOG GOD]

If thats the case, we are going to lose a pick 4 for probably nothing (WC and Fremantle have picks 2 & 3 for uncontracted players), and are top 2 young talls have attitude problems. I have been following the gods for all of my 37 years and am sick of the bad news and disappointment, where is the good news folks? Clubs trade on hope and I am gradually losing all hope that I will see a premiership.

Its all about getting a TEAM together where all areas are covered with players that can DO THEIR JOB week in and week out. Hopefully this will come together over the next 2-3 years...just gotta hope that teams like Geelong and Hawthorn slack off a bit. No use having a premiership window opened when the same breeze is going through the windows of 3-4 other teams. :rolleyes:

[westdog54]

If thats the case, we are going to lose a pick 4 for probably nothing (WC and Fremantle have picks 2 & 3 for uncontracted players), and are top 2 young talls have attitude problems. I have been following the gods for all of my 37 years and am sick of the bad news and disappointment, where is the good news folks? Clubs trade on hope and I am gradually losing all hope that I will see a premiership.

Hold your horses on that one.

If you're referring to Grant and Boumann, then you're only half right, and the one with the attitude problem has started to realise as such. The other half of the equation would be the least of your concerns.

[Desipura]

It is not a rumour. It is a little difficult for me to say who told me. I have replied to my PM's all be in a cryptic way, it is not too difficult to figure it out.

[Sedat]

It is not a rumour. It is a little difficult for me to say who told me. I have replied to my PM's all be in a cryptic way, it is not too difficult to figure it out.
It's a shame about Ray...

[Twodogs]

It's a shame about Ray...




It was Evan Dando?????

[Mofra]

FWIW - Williams hasn't had a full pre-season yet. He's been put out to pasture early this year, and had his operation, so should be able to get full conditioning over summer, which will help a load with the soft tissue injuries he's had. I'm pretty confident that next year will be a full season for Tom.

I'd be over the moon for Tom if it was a full season (by all accounts a level-headed, hard worker off the field as well as a needed player on it). The variety of injuries sustained thus far (both skeletal & soft tissue) don't fill me with much confidence.

[Mofra]

You just mentioned 2 who realistically could play the role. The definition of the CHB role also needs to be clarified as how many 'true' CHF's are there? I think the better term is tall defender's and we need to have 3 of these playing. I think Lake, Williams and Everitt will comfortably fill these roles for us next year.
No, I have detailed reasons why they couldn't realistically play the role, at least not in the short term.

[Twodogs]

We are never going to reach an agreement on this but I still think the 2nd round is a reasonable price to pay over all the father son selections. You pay a fair price and yet you don't get an out and out bargain except in some instances.
I still don't get why another team should be able to bid for the son of say Scott Wynd?
We should either agree to the selection or take our chances of getting him in the draft in the 3rd or 4th rounds etc



We get far too carried away with some of the players that Geelong picked up. If you average it out F/S picks have a fairly low success rate, there are a few who are superstars but the way we carry on it's as if being a F/S selection is some sort of easy entree to footballing success. Hird, Hargrave, Tuck are just a few who didnt go F/S but are now making or made great careers for themselves.

The system is open to clubs manipulating it as well. Clubs will start to nominate players in order to force clubs to pick F/S's earlier than they would have. It doesnt matter whether they have to take them or not because club's will have to take eligible F/S's or the supporters will tear grandstands apart if they dont.


Mark my words-we are going to be dudded big time over this. It's us who will be forced to pay over the odds for the Liberatores, Wallis and Cordy's. As soon as a Collingwood or an interstate club have a problem it'll be changed back.



When they bought in this ridiculous new system they should have dropped the eligibilty back to one game to even it up.

[The Coon Dog]

When they bought in this ridiculous new system they should have dropped the eligibilty back to one game to even it up.

I have heard that they will revert to 50 games from next season, not the 100 games as it stands currently.

[LostDoggy]

Does that mean we get a refund on Reid?

[Twodogs]

Does that mean we get a refund on Reid?



No we get rolled over and dudded AGAIN!

[LostDoggy]

I really cant stand the "poor old us, the AFL hates us" attitude on this site. Considering we have been on the AFL's tit for years now.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I really cant stand the "poor old us, the AFL hates us" attitude on this site. Considering we have been on the AFL's tit for years now.

The ignorant cry of the non-Victorian footy fan.

[westdog54]

I really cant stand the "poor old us, the AFL hates us" attitude on this site. Considering we have been on the AFL's tit for years now.

The AFL has been compensating us for the fact that we get shithouse fixturing, had a shithouse stadium deal negotiated on our behalf and until recently, shithouse FTA coverage.

If you don't like the attitude of people on this site, you might find that red X in the top corner of your browser might come in handy.

[Topdog]

I actually agree with Jerry on this one. The AFL don't hate us, they just care more about teams that bring them more money, that's their prerogative. But good teams don't need help and we have to stop caring about getting a fair draw on that Collingwood get favours. Who cares! It makes beating those teams all the more enjoyable.

This father son rule is good IMO. Teams that try to take advantage will get slugged with a player they didn't really want if they try and grab someone too early.

[Dancin' Douggy]

When the Gold coast comes into trade week we know we'll lose players.
We need to make sure we've got some seasoned, mid 20's players ready to "sacrifice".
Some top picks will be traded away to build a competitive list that can play immediately.
We'd probably get more for Ray if we trade him next year to GC rather than this year.
We want to have players ready to throw to the angry gods so they don't get their hands on Cooney, Griffen etc...........

[LostDoggy]

When the Gold coast comes into trade week we know we'll lose players.
We need to make sure we've got some seasoned, mid 20's players ready to "sacrifice".
Some top picks will be traded away to build a competitive list that can play immediately.
We'd probably get more for Ray if we trade him next year to GC rather than this year.
We want to have players ready to throw to the angry gods so they don't get their hands on Cooney, Griffen etc...........

Good point. Because a cashed up club wouldnt go after quality would they.....
Doesnt matter how many duds on our list, if GC17 want Griffen, Cooney they will most likely take them. I dont think they will be fooled by your cunning Farren Ray decoy.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Good point. Because a cashed up club wouldnt go after quality would they.....
Doesnt matter how many duds on our list, if GC17 want Griffen, Cooney they will most likely take them. I dont think they will be fooled by your cunning Farren Ray decoy.

FREMANTLE................................................... ...........................................

[Topdog]

Good point. Because a cashed up club wouldnt go after quality would they.....
Doesnt matter how many duds on our list, if GC17 want Griffen, Cooney they will most likely take them. I dont think they will be fooled by your cunning Farren Ray decoy.

Jerry mate I think you best read the rules for GC17 and realise that they can't take either of them 2.

[The Coon Dog]

Blues win race for Fremantle ruckman (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24331971-5012432,00.html)


DESPITE not playing finals football for seven years, Carlton yesterday scooped its rivals again, with young Docker Robert Warnock nominating the Blues as his new club of choice.

Despite Fremantle yesterday threatening to play hard ball, Carlton remains confident it will satisfy the Dockers with a suitable trade deal, rather than risk recruiting Warnock in the pre-season draft in December where Melbourne will have first pick.

One scenario could be a three-way deal involving Adelaide.

It is understood Crows ruckman Jonathon Griffin is keen to return home to Western Australia and he could be traded to the Dockers.

As part of that arrangement, Fremantle would pass on Warnock to Carlton, which in turn would have to satisfy Adelaide, possibly with its first selection in the second round of the national draft, overall pick No24.

[Sedat]

As part of that arrangement, Fremantle would pass on Warnock to Carlton, which in turn would have to satisfy Adelaide, possibly with its first selection in the second round of the national draft, overall pick No24.
Wishful thinking on the part of Carlton. Going by previous trades involving similarly underachieving ruckmen with potential upside (Wood for #14, Jolly for #15, even Streeter cost #20), Carlton will need to throw in some more candy to get this deal done I reckon. Arguably Warnock at the same stage as the other ruckmen mentioned has higher stocks and more predicted upside. I know Melbourne are waiting in the wings in the PSD but Freo sound as though they are prepared to play very hard ball - can't see this deal being finalised until 1.59pm on the Friday if at all.

[Mofra]

So Carlton set their future on a Warnock/Kreuzer combo. I wonder where this puts Shaun Hampson, who has a fantastic leap, is agile around the ground and would be a fairly highly prized offer for a rival club?

If Cordy is actually going to be developed as a forward (or god forbid, a "tweener") we may need to look at another ruckman, although we have the luxury of trying to draft one whilst Hudson/Minson are still up and running.

[Sedat]

So Carlton set their future on a Warnock/Kreuzer combo. I wonder where this puts Shaun Hampson, who has a fantastic leap, is agile around the ground and would be a fairly highly prized offer for a rival club?

If Cordy is actually going to be developed as a forward (or god forbid, a "tweener") we may need to look at another ruckman, although we have the luxury of trying to draft one whilst Hudson/Minson are still up and running.
In GC17 colours? Isn't he a Queenslander?

[Mofra]

In GC17 colours? Isn't he a Queenslander?
Good point, drafted from Mt Gravatt. 201cms & 97kgs, same size as Cam Wight currently.

[MrMahatma]

What's this "Chosen his preferred club" crap. Seriously, Freo should be shopping him around and getting the best they can, from anyone.

Why give him to the Blues? Unless their offer is the best.

[Bulldog Revolution]

What's this "Chosen his preferred club" crap. Seriously, Freo should be shopping him around and getting the best they can, from anyone.

Why give him to the Blues? Unless their offer is the best.

He is out of contract and can go to Melbourne in the PSD for nothing and play with his brother

Freo are not in the strongest bargaining position here

[Desipura]

Dermie mentioned on the weekend that we "were into" Thorp and Boyle. The prospect of Thorp at the Kennel would be a very good choice. Boyle on the other hand is another lead up the ground forward type that would not be on my priority list.

[bulldogtragic]

Dermie mentioned on the weekend that we "were into" Thorp and Boyle. The prospect of Thorp at the Kennel would be a very good choice. Boyle on the other hand is another lead up the ground forward type that would not be on my priority list.
If Boyle is a first rounder. Thorp would be two.

Pelchin is a knob.

[The Underdog]

Dermie mentioned on the weekend that we "were into" Thorp and Boyle. The prospect of Thorp at the Kennel would be a very good choice. Boyle on the other hand is another lead up the ground forward type that would not be on my priority list.

Thorp yes, but I'm not sure we can afford to pay them what we'd need to. Boyle, just no.
Saw a rumour that Hawthorn were going to offer Boyle for Mundy at Freo. Now I know these are just rumours but have Hawthorn been taking lessons from the Essendon guys, who have in recent years been my benchmark for trade week hilarity?

[Sockeye Salmon]

The Thorp quote was:

Brereton: I think the Dogs should target Thorp
Robinson: My mail is they're already all over him.

[The Coon Dog]

The Thorp quote was:

Brereton: I think the Dogs should target Thorp
Robinson: My mail is they're already all over him.

What is he likely to cost?

Were the Hawks keen on Shaun Higgins last year or was that just paper talk?

[Mofra]

What is he likely to cost?

Were the Hawks keen on Shaun Higgins last year or was that just paper talk?
Might have just been paper talk, but there was alot mentioned. The same talk that had Higgins as akin to untouchable as well.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What is he likely to cost?

Were the Hawks keen on Shaun Higgins last year or was that just paper talk?

We enquired about Boyle, they said "we want Higgins" we said "**** off".


If we get into Thorp's ear about opportunity and he asks to be traded we might be in a bit better position. If he cost us Higgins, so be it, I'd do it.


Boyle for Higgins? Surely they were taking the piss.

[The Doctor]

I'd give them Ray for Thorpe. I think Thorpe re-signed earlier this year?

Wight for Boyle I might consider.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'd give them Ray for Thorpe. I think Thorpe re-signed earlier this year?


We all would. What makes you think they'd take it?





Wight for Boyle I might consider.

Nil-all. About all Boyle's worth.

[bulldogtragic]

Realistically,

not what we want, or they want,

What would get us Thorp?

I noticed they resigned him but not Dowler...

[bornadog]

Realistically,

not what we want, or they want,

What would get us Thorp?

I noticed they resigned him but not Dowler...

I see Hawthorn maybe chasing Munday, so Thorpe may be involved in a deal?

[bulldogtragic]

I see Hawthorn maybe chasing Munday, so Thorpe may be involved in a deal?
Lets WOOF work out the trade.

This is not the final. Picks to be added, feel free to play.

Ray - Freo
Mundy - Hawks
Thorpe - Dogs

What else do we or others have to add to mix to get this deal done?

[LostDoggy]

Lets WOOF work out the trade.

This is not the final. Picks to be added, feel free to play.

Ray - Freo
Mundy - Hawks
Thorpe - Dogs

What else do we or others have to add to mix to get this deal done?

I dont think Ray alone will get the job done. Have to throw in a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[GVGjr]

Lets WOOF work out the trade.

This is not the final. Picks to be added, feel free to play.

Ray - Freo
Mundy - Hawks
Thorpe - Dogs

What else do we or others have to add to mix to get this deal done?

Freo would want a bit more. Perhaps trading our 2nd round pick for their 3rd round pick might get the job done. (They just move up a few spots)
The Hawks should also add a bit to Freo as well.

What I find interesting about all the speculation with Thorp is that rather than chase Mundy, why hasn't Thorp been tried as a key defender by the Hawks?

I have seen Thorp a couple of times this year and he just doesn't look to be the answer as a key forward but I think he could be worth a try as a key defender. I wonder if his work rate isn't that flash.

[DOG GOD]

I know a couple of people that know him here in Tassie and they say that he's a LAZY footballer.

[bulldogtragic]

Freo would want a bit more. Perhaps trading our 2nd round pick for their 3rd round pick might get the job done. (They just move up a few spots)
The Hawks should also add a bit to Freo as well.

What I find interesting about all the speculation with Thorp is that rather than chase Mundy, why hasn't Thorp been tried as a key defender by the Hawks?

I have seen Thorp a couple of times this year and he just doesn't look to be the answer as a key forward but I think he could be worth a try as a key defender. I wonder if his work rate isn't that flash.
Ray and Picks 30 (wb), 47 (haw) (?) - Freo
Mundy and Pick 51 (freo) - Hawks
Thorp and Pick 35 (freo)- Dogs

=

Freo get Ray, upgrades: 3rd to second and fourth to 3rd
Hawthorn Get Mundy and downgrade a third rounder
Dogs get Thorp and lose Ray and down grade a second rounder

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hawthorn would probably ask for a little more in return, because as previously said, they've shopped Boyle around trying to attain a first round draft pick so one would assume Thorp would come at a bit of a cost too.

Has Mundy officially asked to be traded home?

If so, then perhaps a three way trade is possible, fairing something similar to the suggestions above.

[Scorlibo]

When I saw Thorp play his first game I thought he would be the next big thing. Would love him at the dogs. Hawthorn would demand heaps though, and having resigned him earlier this year probably means he won't be on the trade table anyway.

Another few players who I would be interested in: Ben Reid (Collingwood), Beau Dowler (Hawthorn), Kozi

[GVGjr]

Hawthorn would probably ask for a little more in return, because as previously said, they've shopped Boyle around trying to attain a first round draft pick so one would assume Thorp would come at a bit of a cost too.



I think in this (unlikely) scenario they have admitted that Munday is worth more than Thorp. Actually getting no takers for Boyle last year will have them rethinking their approach for the almost untried Thorp.

[Bulldogs_6]

Bulldogs, Freo, Melbourne, Hawks :D

Dogs Lose: Ray and 2nd/3rd Rounder
Dogs Gain: Thorp

Freo Lose: Warnock, Mundy
Freo Gain: Pick 17, Farren Ray, Dogs 2nd/3rd rounder

Melbourne Lose: Pick 17, 3rd rounder
Melbourne Gain: Warnock

Hawks Lose: Thorp
Hawks Gain: Mundy, 3rd rounder

Win/Win/Win/0-0 Draw for the 'Orks

[Scorlibo]

:rolleyes: Its never gonna happen, but yes all is seemingly even.

[Desipura]

The Thorp quote was:

Brereton: I think the Dogs should target Thorp
Robinson: My mail is they're already all over him.
I heard it the other way around.

[Desipura]

We enquired about Boyle, they said "we want Higgins" we said "**** off".


If we get into Thorp's ear about opportunity and he asks to be traded we might be in a bit better position. If he cost us Higgins, so be it, I'd do it.


Boyle for Higgins? Surely they were taking the piss.
Totally agree about Higins for Thorp. Interesting after the draft Clayton rated Thorp the most natural CHF he has seen.

[LostDoggy]

Totally agree about Higins for Thorp. Interesting after the draft Clayton rated Thorp the most natural CHF he has seen.

Higgins will not be going, he is a 200 gamer, give em Ray instead

[bulldogtragic]

I know footballers aren't generally that smart, but Thorp should realise he will never crack into that Hawthorn forward line. In our forward line however, i'm sure he'd get a game or 200.

[Mantis]

Higgins will not be going, he is a 200 gamer, give em Ray instead

Farren Ray will probably end up playing 200 games too so I don't think how many games the individual will play should come into. More important is worth to the team of the individual and the quality of these games.

[Rocket Science]

Altering tack slightly, any thoughts on the prospect of using Ray to pitch for Nick Dal Santo?

Got chatting with a devoted Saint supporting acquaintance over the weekend and he suggests they're getting fed up with him...he'd also just watched Ray gather 31 touches for the Gulls that arvo. and that admittedly combined with ample liquid refreshment had him eager to sign off on a Ray for Dal Santo trade pronto.

I suspect he's undersold his boy a bit value-wise, and if I was Ross Lyon I wouldn't be coughing up him up just yet, but Dal Santo has had a chequered year including a demotion to the VFL, and the number of Saints fans beying for his blood because he's 'soft' and hasn't come on quite as expected of late seems to growing...I personally think he's a pretty special player with considerable improvement and would make a quality addition to any midfield...he'd certainly be an upgrade over Ray in both the immediate and long term.

If his standing/value at Moorabbin has taken a hit over the past year or two, might it be worth sniffing around under the 'buy low' theory?

[bulldogtragic]

Altering tack slightly, any thoughts on the prospect of using Ray to pitch for Nick Dal Santo?

Got chatting with a devoted Saint supporting acquaintance over the weekend and he suggests they're getting fed up with him...he'd also just watched Ray gather 31 touches for the Gulls that arvo. and that admittedly combined with ample liquid refreshment had him eager to sign off on a Ray for Dal Santo trade pronto.

I suspect he's undersold his boy a bit value-wise, and if I was Ross Lyon I wouldn't be coughing up him up just yet, but Dal Santo has had a chequered year including a demotion to the VFL, and the number of Saints fans beying for his blood because he's 'soft' and hasn't come on quite as expected of late seems to growing...I personally think he's a pretty special player with considerable improvement and would make a quality addition to any midfield...he'd certainly be an upgrade over Ray in both the immediate and long term.

If his standing/value at Moorabbin has taken a hit over the past year or two, might it be worth sniffing around under the 'buy low' theory?
I'd take him, but the cost would be more than Ray, perhaps even a second rounder.

Would not leave us room to go after a KPP such as a Thorp?

[westdog54]

Higgins will not be going, he is a 200 gamer, give em Ray instead

And if they don't want Ray, they want Higgins, then what?

Higgins is undoubtedly a better player but he's the sort of player you'd trade if it was the 'right deal'. I would happily give him an opportunity elsewhere if it means picking up a key forward who can play the game and has potential, particularly one fighting for a spot between a #2 draft pick and a freak of nature.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know too much about Thorp but can anyone see him coming on?

He's just played the 1 AFL game, although in his defence he is still young and is competing against Buddy and co. for a game.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Good point. Because a cashed up club wouldnt go after quality would they.....
Doesnt matter how many duds on our list, if GC17 want Griffen, Cooney they will most likely take them. I dont think they will be fooled by your cunning Farren Ray decoy.

I simply have to quote you again.
The Gold Coast starting line up will include Cooney, Griffen, G. Ablett, Scarlett,
Buddy Franklin, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Judd, Ball, Hodge, Bartel, Harvey, J. Brown, Goodes. Hall, Fev, AND most of the top ten picks of that years draft because they've got the money???????

[LostDoggy]

I simply have to quote you again.
The Gold Coast starting line up will include Cooney, Griffen, G. Ablett, Scarlett,
Buddy Franklin, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Judd, Ball, Hodge, Bartel, Harvey, J. Brown, Goodes. Hall, Fev, AND most of the top ten picks of that years draft because they've got the money???????

They will recruit a couple star players for sure.
My point was that they wouldnt fall for your clever 'give them Farren Ray and they wont know any different' trick.. Nice try though mate, i got a chuckle from it.

[bulldogtragic]

Ray to Cillingwood???

Reece Shaw is unfavoured and likely to go. Lonie is gone too.

Collingwood will have fond memories of Farren, i know Colingwood blokes at work do.

Question is what we could get for him, would Ben Reid be available, or what picks etc.

Just a thought.

[LostDoggy]

would only ever deal with Collingwood if we held the whip......far to slimey for my liking!!

[bornadog]

take these guys off your wish list:

FREMANTLE has thwarted interstate raiders, re-signing David Mundy and Ryan Murphy to new two-year contracts. Both players, who were born in Victoria, had attracted interest from clubs in their home state, particularly Mundy, who had been linked to Richmond and Hawthorn.

Each signed a contract extension that will keep them at Fremantle through 2010.
full story here: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24360174-19742,00.html

[bulldogtragic]

take these guys off your wish list:

FREMANTLE has thwarted interstate raiders, re-signing David Mundy and Ryan Murphy to new two-year contracts. Both players, who were born in Victoria, had attracted interest from clubs in their home state, particularly Mundy, who had been linked to Richmond and Hawthorn.

Each signed a contract extension that will keep them at Fremantle through 2010.
full story here: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24360174-19742,00.html
Thanks BaD.

Means Hawks will be looking elsewhere for some running power.

Maybe they might come after Ray or Lovett.

[strebla]

take these guys off your wish list:

FREMANTLE has thwarted interstate raiders, re-signing David Mundy and Ryan Murphy to new two-year contracts. Both players, who were born in Victoria, had attracted interest from clubs in their home state, particularly Mundy, who had been linked to Richmond and Hawthorn.

Each signed a contract extension that will keep them at Fremantle through 2010.
full story here: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24360174-19742,00.html

This is good news for us as it will drive up Rays stocks and could really up his saleability

[dog town]

Thanks BaD.

Means Hawks will be looking elsewhere for some running power.

Maybe they might come after Ray or Lovett.
Hawks are after defenders more than runners.

[bulldogtragic]

Hawks are after defenders more than runners.
Cam Wight is available too ... :)

[GVGjr]

This is good news for us as it will drive up Rays stocks and could really up his saleability

I hold a different view. I'm not sure that it will result in any clubs chasing Ray that much harder nor willing to pay more than a fair market value for his services.

[The Pie Man]

Ray to Cillingwood???

Reece Shaw is unfavoured and likely to go. Lonie is gone too.

Collingwood will have fond memories of Farren, i know Colingwood blokes at work do.

Question is what we could get for him, would Ben Reid be available, or what picks etc.

Just a thought.

Ben Reid would be good......and he already has a worse run up than even Welsh so that makes sense.

They've got plenty of forward options, though Anthony is probably seen more as a defender - Rocca has a year at best left, and there'd be question marks over Rusling's body holding up. Dawes looked ok though, so they might be prepared to give up Reid.

[bulldogtragic]

Mundy, Murphy and now McKinley have now re-signed.

Forwards of the tall variety seem limited (Murphy & McKinley) to Adam Campbell and Thorp/Dowler if they are put on the market. I imagine other teams are looking for tall forwards, this could well push up prices...

[bulldogtragic]

BUMP.

What players could have actually made an impact last night, and thus who we should target like hell.

Graham

Hall

Cousins

Lovett

Campbell

Thorp

Dowler

Reid

[westdog54]

Is there a player in the league ATM who has never, ever missed a shot on goal?

He would've made an impact last night.

[The Coon Dog]

BUMP.

What players could have actually made an impact last night, and thus who we should target like hell.

Graham

Hall

Cousins

Lovett

Campbell

Thorp

Dowler

Reid
Barry Hall would have made an enormous difference last night.

[hujsh]

We wont get Hall now. He's good again

[bornadog]

We wont get Hall now. He's good again

and too old.

[GVGjr]

Barry Hall would have made an enormous difference last night.


We wont get Hall now. He's good again


and too old.

Rocket is indicating some interest in Nathan Thompson.

[BulldogBelle]

Trade Cross
Cross is an energy leech. His usual play is to quickly handball off rather than to run and carry the ball himself. He should be expending the energy to have that shot at goal when in the forward 50 rather than passing it off, and usually stuffing things up.

So why the word "leech"? He should be expending the energy to run and carry and not off-load the ball to his team-mates (who the have to expend the energy), creating an energy drain on his team-mates. His team-mates expend the energy that he should be expending.

Besides that fact that he can't run and carry - also he can't take a big mark, or spoil. He makes too many mistakes by short kicking that doesn't reach the target on the full.

Another annoying trait about Cross is that he often passes backwards. Maybe it is because he can't kick long enough. What then generally happens is a cancer sets in the team and everybody starts kicking backwards.

Its true, Cross expends a lot of energy running around getting the ball and also diving in where angels fear to tread, but I don't think that that makes up for his short-comings.

We have Boyd who is a similar player to Cross but does everything better.

We would probably get a good trade for Cross. Problem is that Cross has become a bit of an icon of the club. But if they can trade Leon Cameron, they can trade any-one.

If we don't trade Cross I would hope that he would spend the summer practising long-kicking and carrying the ball.


Retire Brad Johnson
Too many skill errors in his game now. Lost his spring and lost his pace. His future injuries will have worsening effects. His time is up!

Eagleton and Welsh to be retired. May have to be paid out, but at the moment they are occupying a space that can be taken up by new draftees.

Scott West - toss of the coin. Don't know. Just how bad is his injury? Not much difference between West and Cross? Yes there is, West can run and carry and West has "presence".

Barry Hall
If he makes himself available through the pre-season draft I would pick him up. When we were gong well at the start of the season the nay-sayers were saying that our lack of a major forward will be our undoing come the finals, and they were right. Give him a 1 year contract while our younger talls develop.

[Happy Days]

Trade Cross
Cross is an energy leech. His usual play is to quickly handball off rather than to run and carry the ball himself. He should be expending the energy to have that shot at goal when in the forward 50 rather than passing it off, and usually stuffing things up.

So why the word "leech"? He should be expending the energy to run and carry and not off-load the ball to his team-mates (who the have to expend the energy), creating an energy drain on his team-mates. His team-mates expend the energy that he should be expending.

Besides that fact that he can't run and carry - also he can't take a big mark, or spoil. He makes too many mistakes by short kicking that doesn't reach the target on the full.

Another annoying trait about Cross is that he often passes backwards. Maybe it is because he can't kick long enough. What then generally happens is a cancer sets in the team and everybody starts kicking backwards.

Its true, Cross expends a lot of energy running around getting the ball and also diving in where angels fear to tread, but I don't think that that makes up for his short-comings.

We have Boyd who is a similar player to Cross but does everything better.

We would probably get a good trade for Cross. Problem is that Cross has become a bit of an icon of the club. But if they can trade Leon Cameron, they can trade any-one.

If we don't trade Cross I would hope that he would spend the summer practising long-kicking and carrying the ball.


Retire Brad Johnson
Too many skill errors in his game now. Lost his spring and lost his pace. His future injuries will have worsening effects. His time is up!

Barry Hall
If he makes himself available through the pre-season draft I would pick him up. When we were gong well at the start of the season the nay-sayers were saying that our lack of a major forward will be our undoing come the finals, and they were right. Give him a 1 year contract while our younger talls develop.

Or...

we could keep Cross and Johhno?

I dont think we're even in the PSD.

[Happy Days]

Rocket is indicating some interest in Nathan Thompson.

Hall > Thompson every day of the week.

[LostDoggy]

Was mentioned on Ch7 that we were 'after' Thompson.

Then I saw the interview with Rocket and, after being asked if we were interested, gave the usual cliche about how we'd look at all our options and won't rule anything out etc. etc.

Ch7 turned this into 'BULLDOGS CHASING THOMPSON':confused::confused::confused:

[GVGjr]

Was mentioned on Ch7 that we were 'after' Thompson.

Then I saw the interview with Rocket and, after being asked if we were interested, gave the usual cliche about how we'd look at all our options and won't rule anything out etc. etc.

Ch7 turned this into 'BULLDOGS CHASING THOMPSON':confused::confused::confused:


I heard the clip on Fox and it appeared that he was asked directly about Thompson and didn't rule it out. A simple 'he's retired' would have knocked it on the head. Ch7 did make out that it was an exclusive interview.

[LostDoggy]

I won't quote the James Cuming post as its mostly a load of rubbish and doesn't deserved to appear again.

[hujsh]

Thompson's risky. We won't get him

[Happy Days]

From http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=67970

Dogs won't target ex-Roo Thompson
By Jennifer Witham
1:08 PM Sat 20 September, 2008

THE WESTERN Bulldogs won't look to lure retired North Melbourne forward Nathan Thompson to Whitten Oval next year, believing there is little point in adopting a one-year solution to their forward-line problems.

The Dogs, having lacked a power forward in recent times, could have targeted Thompson after the Kangaroos this week reneged on their decision to allow the 30-year-old to play on in 2009.

But assistant coach Leon Cameron said his side would be more interested in a longer-term prospect than the former Hawk and Roo.

"You can't just keep going down that track of having one year here, one year there," he told SEN on Saturday morning.

"If you're talking about a key forward, you've got to go all out."

Cameron said the recruitment of such a forward would be on the agenda this week when the Dogs begin the post-mortem on their season.

"We meet first thing Monday morning. We'll let the dust settle this weekend and then meet and assess it all next week," he said.

"We have player interviews and assess the list. You keep assessing it during the year as well, but we'll make some calls sometime next week on some players and what we need.

"What do we need? We would love a big key forward.

"It's a priority, but it's a game where you've got to give up to get it.

"You look at it and say, 'Who do you give up?', but it's about what's out there as well,"

"There's probably three or four key forwards out there and they've all re-signed.

"Do you then go to the second or third stringers? They're the decisions we'll make next week."

He also said the Dogs remained optimistic 2007 No.5 draft pick Jarrad Grant would develop into such a player, after his debut season was ruined by the early onset of osteitis pubis.

"He's a young kid who we hope will play a dozen games next year," he said.

"He's come along in terms of his physicality in the gym really well, but again, for consistent football, he's two to three years away."

Cameron also defended the Dogs' decision to play Adam Cooney on Friday night in their losing preliminary final after it was revealed the on-baller has been battling a knee problem.

"It's the risk you take, but if we had our time over, then no [he wouldn't have missed]. Adam Cooney is a quality player and yes, he has been restricted a little bit, but they've got to put a good quality player on him as well," he said.

"If he's not there, then all of a sudden, they just target Ryan Griffen."

Cooney will have scans this week to find out if his kneecap is cracked.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Trade Cross
Cross is an energy leech. His usual play is to quickly handball off rather than to run and carry the ball himself. He should be expending the energy to have that shot at goal when in the forward 50 rather than passing it off, and usually stuffing things up.

So why the word "leech"? He should be expending the energy to run and carry and not off-load the ball to his team-mates (who the have to expend the energy), creating an energy drain on his team-mates. His team-mates expend the energy that he should be expending.

Besides that fact that he can't run and carry - also he can't take a big mark, or spoil. He makes too many mistakes by short kicking that doesn't reach the target on the full.

Another annoying trait about Cross is that he often passes backwards. Maybe it is because he can't kick long enough. What then generally happens is a cancer sets in the team and everybody starts kicking backwards.

Its true, Cross expends a lot of energy running around getting the ball and also diving in where angels fear to tread, but I don't think that that makes up for his short-comings.

We have Boyd who is a similar player to Cross but does everything better.

We would probably get a good trade for Cross. Problem is that Cross has become a bit of an icon of the club. But if they can trade Leon Cameron, they can trade any-one.

If we don't trade Cross I would hope that he would spend the summer practising long-kicking and carrying the ball.


Retire Brad Johnson
Too many skill errors in his game now. Lost his spring and lost his pace. His future injuries will have worsening effects. His time is up!

Eagleton and Welsh to be retired. May have to be paid out, but at the moment they are occupying a space that can be taken up by new draftees.

Scott West - toss of the coin. Don't know. Just how bad is his injury? Not much difference between West and Cross? Yes there is, West can run and carry and West has "presence".

Barry Hall
If he makes himself available through the pre-season draft I would pick him up. When we were gong well at the start of the season the nay-sayers were saying that our lack of a major forward will be our undoing come the finals, and they were right. Give him a 1 year contract while our younger talls develop.


Congratulations.

You've not just passed Jerry you've completely obliterated him as the biggest ****wit on Woof.

I've never read more poorly considered bollocks in my life.

[wb_age]

Leon Cameron was on SEN this morning and was asked about Nathan Thompson, his response was a definite no basically hinting at his age and that we'd prefer to recruit younger players. (youth policy)

Also mentioned that there aren't any gun KP forwards available and that than suggested that we may have to look at second/third stringers etc.

One more thing, he said he would definitely be at the club next year.


EDIT: Previous posts beat me to and actually had the article on what I heard.

[Rocket Science]

Leon Cameron was on SEN this morning...

One more thing, he said he would definitely be at the club next year.


Tremendous news.

[soupman]

Retire Brad Johnson
Too many skill errors in his game now. Lost his spring and lost his pace. His future injuries will have worsening effects. His time is up!

Scott West - toss of the coin. Don't know. Just how bad is his injury? Not much difference between West and Cross? Yes there is, West can run and carry and West has "presence".


JC, your post is one of the biggest loads of crap I've ever had the displeasure of reading on this board. However, assuming you actually thought out your arguments instead of just firing off on the first poor idea that came to your head, how can you explain the two above contrasting statements.

You claim that Johnson should be "retired" because he is getting old and his body is starting to wear down, but you then suggest that Westy is a moderate chance of being retained, despite his injuries being clearly worse than Johnno's.

[bulldogtragic]

Simon Taylor?

Hudson may only have one year.

Skipper is not an AFL ruckman


???

[Scraggers]

If players are struggling to get a game with their current club, why are we even considering them (Graham / Thorpe et al.) ??

There is a reason they can't get a game with thier current club ... THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!

I am sick of trying other clubs players to see if they can make it with us (Mc Dougall et al.) IMO we should recruit young and wisely NOT from other AFL teams !!

Most opposition clubs have been able to build key position players from their rookie list or drafting of young players ... Why can't we ????

[bulldogtragic]

If players are struggling to get a game with their current club, why are we even considering them (Graham / Thorpe et al.) ??

There is a reason they can't get a game with thier current club ... THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!

I am sick of trying other clubs players to see if they can make it with us (Mc Dougall et al.) IMO we should recruit young and wisely NOT from other AFL teams !!

Most opposition clubs have been able to build key position players from their rookie list or drafting of young players ... Why can't we ????
Williams, Buddy and Roughy.

Thorpe can't get a game behind them. Well he must be a hack :)

[Scraggers]

Williams, Buddy and Roughy.

Thorpe can't get a game behind them. Well he must be a hack :)

I'm not saying he is a hack, I am saying he is someone we should not chase !!

If he is Hawthorn's FOURTH choice as a forward why should he be our FIRST

He is their FOURTH choce for a reason !

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not saying he is a hack, I am saying he is someone we should not chase !!

If he is Hawthorn's FOURTH choice as a forward why should he be our FIRST

He is their FOURTH choce for a reason !
Sorry, i will just agree to disagree.

As by that logic we have to trade for a first picked forward from teams which would include Porplyzia, Motlop, McKinley, Hale/Edwards as the others are untouchabe (i.e. Riewoldt, Brown, Pavlich, Buddy, etc etc).

Or we get oldies like Thompson or Hall (who is contracted and wll cost)

Or we can go after say Thorpe, pick 6 of the super draft, in Clayton's words "the most natural centre half forward i have ever seen who can't get a game behind 3 players who have kicked over 200 goals collectively. That is why he can't crack it for a game.

But as i say, we agree to disagree.

[Dry Rot]

Aren't the Hawks knobs to trade with and would want a good first round pick for Thorpe?

[bulldogtragic]

Aren't the Hawks knobs to trade with and would want a good first round pick for Thorpe?
Yes.

Would need to trade quality to get quality.

[Dry Rot]

If Ray wants to go West and if (and I stress IF) we want Hall, would the following trades work? (I might be out by one draft place)

Freo get Ray and gain pick 27, lose Pick 19

Swans get Pick 19 and Pick 30, lose Hall and Pick 27

Dogs get Hall and lose Ray and Pick 30


Swans get the better end of the deal we get the reverse, but Hall is under contract and Pick 30 from us just won't do the deal. Maybe you could add a swap of Round 3 picks between us and Freo, but I dunno if they'll come at that.

None of the above should be taken that we should get Hall, rather it just offers a way to do so.

[Scraggers]

Sorry, i will just agree to disagree.

As by that logic we have to trade for a first picked forward from teams which would include Porplyzia, Motlop, McKinley, Hale/Edwards as the others are untouchabe (i.e. Riewoldt, Brown, Pavlich, Buddy, etc etc).

Or we get oldies like Thompson or Hall (who is contracted and wll cost)

Or we can go after say Thorpe, pick 6 of the super draft, in Clayton's words "the most natural centre half forward i have ever seen who can't get a game behind 3 players who have kicked over 200 goals collectively. That is why he can't crack it for a game.

But as i say, we agree to disagree.

Pick six of the super draft doesn't mean he can hold a KP ... Farren Ray was pick four in the draft and he can't even hold his position the side

Again I'm not saying trade ... I'm saying recruit

We need to go for young players not USED players

I too will agree to disagree :)

[The Pie Man]

I'm not saying he is a hack, I am saying he is someone we should not chase !!

If he is Hawthorn's FOURTH choice as a forward why should he be our FIRST

He is their FOURTH choce for a reason !

Who knows what they'll do, but I think Boyle can play (I haven't seen Thorp) and they do have an embarrassment of tall riches, that's the reason they're third & fourth choice talls there. That for mine doesn't suggest they can't play, though I do agree with you that we have a bad record in trading for so-so big men.

From the honour roll I read Kingsley Hunter, Trent Bartlett (uughhh) Adam Morgan (unlucky with the knee and played out of position when fit) Andrew McDougall (again, I would have liked to have seen him deep in the forward line, but not to be) and while Daniel Bandy was great in his first year, he did nothing after that.

And on the trading Cross idea from earlier in the post, it is a ridiculous suggestion - sure, Cross has his deficiencies, but we trade him and we're left with Boyd & Cooney as our major ball winners - we need more contested 'inside' players, not less. He is good overhead too, that's a fact. If we have to give something up, Farren Ray still has some currency. Anyone else of value I'd be reluctant to let go of - Giansiracusa, Higgins, Tom Williams all have value, but you wouldn't give them up.

Anyone think Ryan Gamble would be worth a look at?

[Sockeye Salmon]

If players are struggling to get a game with their current club, why are we even considering them (Graham / Thorpe et al.) ??

There is a reason they can't get a game with thier current club ... THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!

I am sick of trying other clubs players to see if they can make it with us (Mc Dougall et al.) IMO we should recruit young and wisely NOT from other AFL teams !!

Most opposition clubs have been able to build key position players from their rookie list or drafting of young players ... Why can't we ????

That's the point of trading isn't it? Identify the guys playing seconds who could go on to be top liners.

Melbourne Storm started up from scratch and needed a half-back. there was a guy at newcastle playing seconds who couldn't get a game because of Andrew Johns - Brett Kimmorley. he led the Storm to a premiership.

Kimmorley left and they picked up Matt Orford from someone's seconds (can't remember which club).

The secret is to pick up someone who is talented yet young enough to turn into a good footballer. Identify why they haven't made it yet and fix the problem. If maturity or opportunity are the main reasons, they're easy to fix.

Thorp hasn't even turned 20 yet (DOB 25/12/88), he's younger than Brennan Stack, Malcolm Lynch, Shaun Higgins, Jarrod Harbrow or Steven Tiller!

[Scraggers]

That's the point of trading isn't it? Identify the guys playing seconds who could go on to be top liners.

Like Carlton did with Judd ?


Melbourne Storm started up from scratch and needed a half-back. there was a guy at newcastle playing seconds who couldn't get a game because of Andrew Johns - Brett Kimmorley. he led the Storm to a premiership.

Kimmorley left and they picked up Matt Orford from someone's seconds (can't remember which club).

I understand what you are saying SS, but your point about Kimmorley is a bad analogy and poorly made ... Kimmorley played a number of first grade games for Newcastle before moving on to the Hunter Mariners where he played a full season before the club was disbanded. He was a free agent on the market when Melbourne Storm was formed.

On the other hand Thorp has played one AFL game in 2007 ... and it is obviously not very memorable ... if he is that good, why didn't he play this season when Williams didn't in rounds 1, 2, and 3 ??


The secret is to pick up someone who is talented yet young enough to turn into a good footballer. Identify why they haven't made it yet and fix the problem. If maturity or opportunity are the main reasons, they're easy to fix.

This is exactly what I am saying ... Thorp has played one game of AFL ... WHY, If he is as brilliant as everyone has stated ?? ... I understand that he had a hip injury in 2007, but he was declared fully fit leading into the 2007 finals and din't get a game, and there have been opportunities for him to play this year ... again he didn't get a game

I am suggesting IF we take part in the trade talks we do go after a proven KPP such as a Porplezia rather than a teams Fourth choice

[GVGjr]

Anyone think Ryan Gamble would be worth a look at?

He's a classy young player that can't guarantee a spot in a very strong outfit so he meets the criteria but what role could he play for us?
To me as good as he is he wouldn't make a lot of difference to us unless we got a genuine KPP as well.

[GVGjr]

FWIW, my query on Thorp isn't the fact that he has only played one senior game especially given his age and the form of some of the senior Hawks guys that is hardly surprising. It is however, more around the fact that he hasn't played a lot of good games for the Box Hill Hawks. If he was doing well there then I could see the fascination in him. I haven't seen enough of him to suggest that he could come in and make a difference to us. The times I have seen him he has been OK but not a lot better than that.

[Happy Days]

Like Carlton did with Judd ?



I am suggesting IF we take part in the trade talks we do go after a proven KPP such as a Porplezia rather than a teams Fourth choice

Carlton had to give up alot to get Judd, and we simply don't have the kind of picks to go after a top-liner.

As far as Porplyzia goes, he's far too small for a KPF. We already have gone down that path too many times..we need a big man and Thorpe looms as the best possibility.

[phroosh]

I am suggesting IF we take part in the trade talks we do go after a proven KPP such as a Porplezia rather than a teams Fourth choice

Steady on, Porplyzia is 180cm, 83kg and a smart hard working small forward/midfielder, and not in any way, shape or form for sale. (He's the new golden child over here....)
Adelaide need a key forward like we do. All their's are either makeshift, broken or developing.

[phroosh]

Tom Hawkins name came up in the media when possibly available talls were the subject.

Didn't see any of his games, only heard them called on the radio. I know he's good overhead, that's about it. Anyone know more, or why he's being mentioned?

[GVGjr]

Tom Hawkins name came up in the media when possibly available talls were the subject.

Didn't see any of his games, only heard them called on the radio. I know he's good overhead, that's about it. Anyone know more, or why he's being mentioned?

He won't be going anywhere. I guess someone has just looked at the better players not getting a regular game at their clubs and thought they would float that idea.

[phroosh]

Was afraid that might be the case. Separating "true news" from "speculating for no other reason than to put your name to another pile of rubbish" can be difficult. :-)

[Scraggers]

Carlton had to give up alot to get Judd, and we simply don't have the kind of picks to go after a top-liner.

As far as Porplyzia goes, he's far too small for a KPF. We already have gone down that path too many times..we need a big man and Thorpe looms as the best possibility.


Steady on, Porplyzia is 180cm, 83kg and a smart hard working small forward/midfielder, and not in any way, shape or form for sale. (He's the new golden child over here....)
Adelaide need a key forward like we do. All their's are either makeshift, broken or developing.

SORRY ... Agreed !!

Porplyzia is not a KPP ... My Bad !! :(

[The Pie Man]

He won't be going anywhere. I guess someone has just looked at the better players not getting a regular game at their clubs and thought they would float that idea.

What will interest me is who gets dropped for Chapman this week - could it be Lonergan?

Even if he does play, Geelong may make a call that to accommodate Hawkins, they need to trade Lonergan (like they did with King to keep Blake)

[bulldogtragic]

What will interest me is who gets dropped for Chapman this week - could it be Lonergan?

Even if he does play, Geelong may make a call that to accommodate Hawkins, they need to trade Lonergan (like they did with King to keep Blake)
I would take Lonergan for a third/fourth rounder in a heart beat.

[LostDog]

I'd trade a kidney for Lonergan

[Mofra]

On the other hand Thorp has played one AFL game in 2007 ... and it is obviously not very memorable ... if he is that good, why didn't he play this season when Williams didn't in rounds 1, 2, and 3 ??
Thorp is a devloping young tall, huge upside but certainly not ready to make an impact at senior level in 2009.
We have Grant and Boumann as young developing talls, so not sure Thorp would be what we need.

Campbell from Freo on the other hand is 23 and has the body to play senior football, even if he is still a work in progress. He may end up playing second fiddle to Grant in 2010 but next year he will make a big difference to our line up, especially if Minson goes forward and we actually have two tall forwards as options.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Thorp is a devloping young tall, huge upside but certainly not ready to make an impact at senior level in 2009.
We have Grant and Boumann as young developing talls, so not sure Thorp would be what we need.

Campbell from Freo on the other hand is 23 and has the body to play senior football, even if he is still a work in progress. He may end up playing second fiddle to Grant in 2010 but next year he will make a big difference to our line up, especially if Minson goes forward and we actually have two tall forwards as options.

You couldn't play two blokes that slow in the same forward line at the same time.

[Mofra]

You couldn't play two blokes that slow in the same forward line at the same time.
Scott West is the slowest bloke on our list and he went forward a couple of times when Minson was parked in the square.

[Happy Days]

I'd trade a kidney for Lonergan

Very sharp work there LD

[bornadog]

Scott West is the slowest bloke on our list and he went forward a couple of times when Minson was parked in the square.

We need a mobile tall KPP, no dinasaurs please.

[hujsh]

Thorp is a devloping young tall, huge upside but certainly not ready to make an impact at senior level in 2009.
We have Grant and Boumann as young developing talls, so not sure Thorp would be what we need.


I disagree. It is almost certain that one of the 3 won't work out and is 50/50 that 2 will be average/duds.

So having 3 on the list makes the odds much better

[Mofra]

I disagree. It is almost certain that one of the 3 won't work out and is 50/50 that 2 will be average/duds.

So having 3 on the list makes the odds much better
Williams wants to play forward & Cordy is a forward/ruckman, that makes 4 already, plus a possible draftee & hopefully a trade.

I would prefer someone who can make some sort of impact next year, who knows what our premiership window will look like in 2010 with Aker/Johnno/Hudson starting to show the effects of age (assuming Eagle & Welsh will struggle to hold their spot in the side at this point).

[Go_Dogs]

Williams wants to play forward & Cordy is a forward/ruckman, that makes 4 already, plus a possible draftee & hopefully a trade.

Don't discount Lake going forward, and Tiller too if we have enough key defenders. Don't want to get too top heavy in search of a 'key forward' when we still need to improve our running depth, and strength/size through the midfield.

[hujsh]

Williams wants to play forward & Cordy is a forward/ruckman, that makes 4 already, plus a possible draftee & hopefully a trade.


Doesn't look too natural a forward. How do you know what he wants to be out of curiosity?

[Mofra]

Doesn't look too natural a forward. How do you know what he wants to be out of curiosity?
He has said so a number of times in interviews & in discussions with people as well.

[bulldogtragic]

He has said so a number of times in interviews & in discussions with people as well.
Anyone seen his kicking for goal?

Is it worth the move?

[Mofra]

Anyone seen his kicking for goal?

Is it worth the move?
Unfortunately not yet, he did look a little lost down there when moved forward during junk time in a couple of games this year (and last year in the Richmond game as well he didn't touch it when forward).

Would be worth a shot when Everitt can hold down CHB which I doubt will be next year. It may be a moot point anyway, considering his history with being able to get out on the field.

[mjp]

Shouldn't young Tom just concentrate on playing a GAME before he worries about what position he might play in?

[LostDoggy]

I think that Sean Rusling fits the bill perfectly for us if his body can hold up.
My points are:
-He is a true full forward
-He averages 6.0 marks a game in 2007(1.4 contested)
-He generated 17 scoring shots from five games in 2007 converting at 58% for ten goals
-He is still only 21
-Good size at 190cm and 89kg
-He is good on the lead and in a contested situation
-I think Collingwood have enough tall forwards so if we struck up the right deal, we might be able to get him cheap, especially with collingwood needing running power and an injection of speed ie:Farren Ray

[The Coon Dog]

I think that Sean Rusling fits the bill perfectly for us if his body can hold up.


That's just it, his body has shown time & again it just can't hold up.

[Topdog]

I think that Sean Rusling fits the bill perfectly for us if his body can hold up.
My points are:
-He is a true full forward
-He averages 6.0 marks a game in 2007(1.4 contested)
-He generated 17 scoring shots from five games in 2007 converting at 58% for ten goals
-He is still only 21
-Good size at 190cm and 89kg
-He is good on the lead and in a contested situation
-I think Collingwood have enough tall forwards so if we struck up the right deal, we might be able to get him cheap, especially with collingwood needing running power and an injection of speed ie:Farren Ray

Your 3rd point is the most important. He played 5 games, has had 2 or so shoulder reconstructions and doesn't look like he can get his hands above his head anymore. Really not worth it IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Reminds me of tom williams who rocket cant wait to get ripe.

would anyone do a straight swap of farren ray for rusling?

[The Coon Dog]

would anyone do a straight swap of farren ray for rusling?

No, not at all.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Reminds me of tom williams who rocket cant wait to get ripe.

would anyone do a straight swap of farren ray for rusling?

I'd like to think Farren has more currency in the market than that.

[The Pie Man]

FWIW, my query on Thorp isn't the fact that he has only played one senior game especially given his age and the form of some of the senior Hawks guys that is hardly surprising. It is however, more around the fact that he hasn't played a lot of good games for the Box Hill Hawks. If he was doing well there then I could see the fascination in him. I haven't seen enough of him to suggest that he could come in and make a difference to us. The times I have seen him he has been OK but not a lot better than that.

Do we know if Thorp is coming out of contract? I got told he recently signed for another 2 years with Hawthorn.

[GVGjr]

Do we know if Thorp is coming out of contract? I got told he recently signed for another 2 years with Hawthorn.

I heard the same thing but I don't know if that is true.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Do we know if Thorp is coming out of contract? I got told he recently signed for another 2 years with Hawthorn.

How about 5 weeks ago? I suggest we can cross him off our shopping list.

A happy team keeps Thorp striving
Catherine Murphy
5:44 PM Tue 19 August, 2008

HAWKS’ Mitch Thorp is one of eight young players to renew his contract at Waverley in what is an exciting time for the finals-bound club.

The 19-year-old has played just one AFL game, in round 15 last year, and like several other young recruits he’s working hard to earn a place in the seniors at Box Hill as the platform to an AFL career.

Picked as the Hawks’ number one selection in the 2006 draft, and sixth over all, Thorp says the commitment of established players such as Jarryd Roughead is an inspiration to the young Hawks.

“To have that bunch of guys stick together you know that everyone is on the one page and everyone wants to do the same,” Thorp says.

“No one is trying to go off and earn a bit more money, they all want to stay at the club. I love knowing that guys at the club want to stay and win a flag. It gives you confidence to come to training and play. It’s great that someone like Jarryd Roughead, who might be able to get some more money somewhere else, didn’t even think about it. It’s exciting times for Hawthorn definitely.”

While it’s only natural for Thorp to yearn after that spot in the senior side, he insists that he and his Box Hill team mates are more than happy to put in the hard yards at VFL level while they wait for their opportunity.

“We just love being part of a team that’s going well and being part of a successful environment. We just love turning up to training. Our time will come as long as we work hard.

"I just try to control what I can control and if I get into the side, I get into the side. I’m just putting my best foot forward. I just want to make it. It’s what I’ve always wanted to do since I can remember. So I’m doing the best I can.

"If playing at Box Hill is what I’ve got to do, then it’s what I’ve got to do. Once I get into the ones, I’ll just try to stay there.”

Thorp’s time at Waverley hasn’t been without its hiccups. He underwent a hip operation at the end of last season and three weeks ago he added himself to the list of Hawks who no longer possess appendix; Brad Sewell, Luke Hodge and Josh Kennedy have all had theirs removed as well.

“I’m a very competitive person. I find it hard to sit and watch an AFL game because I just want to play so much … I’ve had a few niggling injuries so my body needs to be right as well. I do get impatient though and sometimes maybe that’s why I get injured because I just want to train and to play. I’ve just got to hold myself back.”

While there’s always been debate about which end of the field Thorp should carry out his key position duties, he’s pretty sure where he’d prefer to be based.

“I played a lot in the forwards and the backs growing up. But I’ve certainly played my best games of footy up forward. I don’t mind playing defence -- I enjoy it too – [but] I’m hoping in my AFL career that I can be a centre half forward".

[The Pie Man]

How about 5 weeks ago? I suggest we can cross him off our shopping list.

A happy team keeps Thorp striving
Catherine Murphy
5:44 PM Tue 19 August, 2008

HAWKS’ Mitch Thorp is one of eight young players to renew his contract at Waverley in what is an exciting time for the finals-bound club.

The 19-year-old has played just one AFL game, in round 15 last year, and like several other young recruits he’s working hard to earn a place in the seniors at Box Hill as the platform to an AFL career.
.

ok - so exactly who is out of contract? Boyle, Hansen, Campbell?

As is public knowledge, Barry Hall has one more year, but they appear confident they can work something out should he ask to leave.......

[bulldogtragic]

On the live-chat of the Hun today, Aker said we need to focus on a ruckman. Interesting that was his priority not a forward KPP.

If that is more the reality from the clubs perspective, should we look as Simon Taylor and get in his ear about missing the grand final? Are their others out there.

Skipper is the only back-up and is not to AFL standard as a ruk.

Interesting.

[Sedat]

Is there anyone else who rates Mitch Clark as highly as I do? Now with Brown contracted for another 4 years, Bradshaw with another 2 years minimum left, Charman the clear #1 ruckman and still only in his mid 20's, and Leuenburger the clear choice as #2 ruckman, where exactly is Clark going to play next season and the season after? I'd like us to make a big play for him. He has excellent hands, can pinch-hit in the ruck (is 199cms) and is only going to get much better. Kicking is his only query as far as I can see. What do some of the learned judges think?

[bulldogtragic]

Is there anyone else who rates Mitch Clark as highly as I do? Now with Brown contracted for another 4 years, Bradshaw with another 2 years minimum left, Charman the clear #1 ruckman and still only in his mid 20's, and Leuenburger the clear choice as #2 ruckman, where exactly is Clark going to play next season and the season after? I'd like us to make a big play for him. He has excellent hands, can pinch-hit in the ruck (is 199cms) and is only going to get much better. Kicking is his only query as far as I can see. What do some of the learned judges think?
I am with you Sedat. I rate him very highly, many has him equal or better than Thorpe.

I just didn't seem him as 'gettable'. If he is, we should offer a decent offer to snag him. As you add Jared Brennan to your list of forwards.

Would have to be a very, very sweet offer. What would you offer Sedat?

[Happy Days]

Is there anyone else who rates Mitch Clark as highly as I do? Now with Brown contracted for another 4 years, Bradshaw with another 2 years minimum left, Charman the clear #1 ruckman and still only in his mid 20's, and Leuenburger the clear choice as #2 ruckman, where exactly is Clark going to play next season and the season after? I'd like us to make a big play for him. He has excellent hands, can pinch-hit in the ruck (is 199cms) and is only going to get much better. Kicking is his only query as far as I can see. What do some of the learned judges think?

I rate Clark very highly...unfortunately so do Brisbane. Very much an outside chance.

[Sedat]

I am with you Sedat. I rate him very highly, many has him equal or better than Thorpe.

I just didn't seem him as 'gettable'. If he is, we should offer a decent offer to snag him. As you add Jared Brennan to your list of forwards.

Would have to be a very, very sweet offer. What would you offer Sedat?
I have no idea of his contractual status but I'm just trying to think logically. Where on earth is he going to play next season? Even their key defensive posts are well covered by Merrett and Patful - Clark isn't a defender anyway. I forgot to even factor in Brennan, although he is more of a floating forward.

If we are hell-bent on Cordy with pick 14, I don't think we have any carrots to dangle at Brisbane that they would find tasty enough (or that we would be willing to dangle in their direction). All I know is that he will have to be playing our of his skin to be getting regular game time in 2009. If you look at Brisbane's KP depth and midfield strength, they really under-achieved this season.

[bulldogtragic]

I have no idea of his contractual status but I'm just trying to think logically. Where on earth is he going to play next season? Even their key defensive posts are well covered by Merrett and Patful - Clark isn't a defender anyway. I forgot to even factor in Brennan, although he is more of a floating forward.

If we are hell-bent on Cordy with pick 14, I don't think we have any carrots to dangle at Brisbane that they would find tasty enough (or that we would be willing to dangle in their direction). All I know is that he will have to be playing our of his skin to be getting regular game time in 2009. If you look at Brisbane's KP depth and midfield strength, they really under-achieved this season.
Logic then dictates, if we want him and we have midfielders, we need to offer something to get him.

I would have thought only someone like Gia would get that across the line. We need Boyd and Cross to get the hard ball. We wont give up Coons, Griff, Ward or Higgo.

Could they like a Ray and Reid (QLD) double act?

[LostDoggy]

What is the timing on Father /Son nomination, is it before Trade week? i.e are we able to trade pick 14 for a KP and utilise our "next available" draft pick for Cordy

[bulldogtragic]

What is the timing on Father /Son nomination, is it before Trade week? i.e are we able to trade pick 14 for a KP and utilise our "next available" draft pick for Cordy
Welcome aboard.

It is done before trade week, so we can not do that.

[GVGjr]

What is the timing on Father /Son nomination, is it before Trade week? i.e are we able to trade pick 14 for a KP and utilise our "next available" draft pick for Cordy

No we cannot trade that pick and use another. Others clubs can make a pitch for him and if they are prepared to pay a first round pick then we have to use pick 14. If a club offers a 2nd round pick then we will have to use our natural 2nd round selection. The only exceptions to this are the Hawks and Cats who will have their natural draft picks after ours.

[LostDoggy]

Another question, Westy would have been on our veterans list and therefore half his salary not under the salary cap. In his absence, who do we place on the veterans list and does that give us sufficient room to land a big fish?

[The Coon Dog]

Another question, Westy would have been on our veterans list and therefore half his salary not under the salary cap. In his absence, who do we place on the veterans list and does that give us sufficient room to land a big fish?
No one qualifies. Nathan Eagleton is another year away, somehow I don't like his chances of getting there.

[dog town]

Would love to get Clark but Brisbane would consider him to be a huge part of there future. This means we would need to pay way above the odds to get him and thats where it becomes less appealing. Perhaps we do actually need to pay something ridiculous to get one of these guys even if it is grossly unfair? Im not sure what the answer is but I am fairly sure Brisbane would want more than guys like Guido as was suggested We would have to part with one of our blue chip young midfielders and maybe even sweeten the deal with a pick depending on which player we use.

Clubs dont just trade quality young players for no reason so you need to draw them in. Brisbane need a CHB to play on mobile leading types. Murphy, Hansen etc gave them all sorts of trouble this season. We are not really in a position to give them any of our defenders so only real quality young runners are going to tempt them.

[bulldogtragic]

Wojinski anyone?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wojinski anyone?

Why?

No point throwing up names for the sake of it. Wojcinski has pace but that's about it. He's never been a consistent quality player, it's been his flare that's taken him this far. He's been lucky that last year he was 'on board for the ride' - he's been made look better than he actually is.

He's decent, but not worth going after, especially at 28/29.

[bulldogtragic]

Why?

No point throwing up names for the sake of it. Wojcinski has pace but that's about it. He's never been a consistent quality player, it's been his flare that's taken him this far. He's been lucky that last year he was 'on board for the ride' - he's been made look better than he actually is.

He's decent, but not worth going after, especially at 28/29.
The name was thrown up as from time to time players cut from the grand final team leave the club.

[StaRRy#9]

So, say we land a player like Hall or even Campbell.

Assuming whoever we pick up will play at FF who do they replace in the best 22?

You would think Williams will probably come in for Tiller or Callan (who both were outstanding in the last 2 finals)

Harbrow cannot possibly be dropped after what he showed against Geelong. Hill? You would think it's in our best interest to keep playing him as his potential is huge. Same goes with Higgins.

Minson obviously has to play as a back up ruckman, and could at times stay forward and really strech some defences.

That only really leaves Welsh.. Who didn't perform when we really needed him too.

[Dancin' Douggy]

There's so many threads going now re trades etc. I'm pulling this post across to the official 2008 trade thread. It's becoming very confusing.. Here goes.

I'm wondering what Kosi could do with a simple set of instructions.

TAKE MARKS IN THE FORWARD 50.

St. Kilda play him all over the shop and half the time he and Riewoldt spoil each other in pack mark situations.
Trading Kosi could be a win win for the saints.
You just can't have Kosi competing with another tall forward. He has tunnel vision and doesn't know when to go and when to pull back.
Kosi would be a good fit for us if he was the only tall. I think it would suit his style of play.
And we've got the opportunists to crumb the spoils.
I would definitely consider him.
CHF or FF every week no exceptions. No spells in the ruck, defence etc etc. I think that whoever uses Kosi should use him that way. And I'll say it again he can't play in the same forward line as Riewoldt as they both have tunnel vision for the ball in flight andf spoil each other. It's ugly and messy.

[dog town]

Wojinski anyone? He would be a perfect fit for our running requirements. He can play down back or on a wing, carries the footy and has good-very good foot skills. Best of all he can beat quality opponents when down back. I reckon he would slot in nicely.

The problem is that I think he will stay at Geelong and he is getting on a bit. You would have to weigh up whether its worth getting someone his age onto the list.

I saw Jake King's name thrown around as well. He is a younger rebounding type that would slot in well.

[Dancin' Douggy]

He would be a perfect fit for our running requirements. He can play down back or on a wing, carries the footy and has good-very good foot skills. Best of all he can beat quality opponents when down back. I reckon he would slot in nicely.

The problem is that I think he will stay at Geelong and he is getting on a bit. You would have to weigh up whether its worth getting someone his age onto the list.

I saw Jake King's name thrown around as well. He is a younger rebounding type that would slot in well.

WE NEED A TALL FORWARD THAT"S ALL!!!!!!!
Who is Wodjinski going to replace in our back half?
And a nugetty trier with average skills isn't going to push anyone out either.
FOCUS people FOCUS!

[dog town]

WE NEED A TALL FORWARD THAT"S ALL!!!!!!!
Who is Wodjinski going to replace in our back half?
And a nugetty trier with average skills isn't going to push anyone out either.
FOCUS people FOCUS! Your kidding yourself. Sorry to put it so bluntly but you are. A close loss to Geelong suddenly masks over our last 9 games of the season? I hope Rocket isn't thinking last night. I dont care if we dont get those players as it was merely speculation but if you think we are set for runners then your kidding yourself.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I saw Jake King's name thrown around as well. He is a younger rebounding type that would slot in well.

You've spent the last 5 years earning yourself the highest respect on this forum and then you ruin it all in one post.

I can only assume you hit "submit reply" before finishing your post with "except that he's the worst user of the football in the AFL"*

* apologies to Brent Stanton.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Your kidding yourself. Sorry to put it so bluntly but you are. A close loss to Geelong suddenly masks over our last 9 games of the season? I hope Rocket isn't thinking last night. I dont care if we dont get those players as it was merely speculation but if you think we are set for runners then your kidding yourself.

Ok. You're right. Let's draft Wodjinski and Jake King. Goodnight and good luck.

[dog town]

You've spent the last 5 years earning yourself the highest respect on this forum and then you ruin it all in one post.

I can only assume you hit "submit reply" before finishing your post with "except that he's the worst user of the football in the AFL"*

* apologies to Brent Stanton. Ha ha you should apologise to a few of the Freo boys to I reckon.

Nah I quite like King. Tough and runs at the opposition without fear. He does not kick the footy all that well but alot of his damage is done just by carrying the thing. I thought Harbrow showed in the Geelong game something we have been missing a bit. He just took them on and I think its something we need. It helps get some of our better kicks on the end of the footy too by getting it outside quickly. You do agree we are going to need more runners with Ray and possibly Eagleton leaving?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ha ha you should apologise to a few of the Freo boys to I reckon.

Nah I quite like King. Tough and runs at the opposition without fear. He does not kick the footy all that well but alot of his damage is done just by carrying the thing. I thought Harbrow showed in the Geelong game something we have been missing a bit. He just took them on and I think its something we need. It helps get some of our better kicks on the end of the footy too by getting it outside quickly. You do agree we are going to need more runners with Ray and possibly Eagleton leaving?

Absolutely, but I wouldn't touch anyone who can't kick.

I'm not big on recycles. We need a big bloke but I'd stick with just the one 2nd hand bloke.

Griffen and Cooney run and carry but I'd be wanting Ward, Wood and O'Keefe to play some games.

If I was to get a runner, Lovett would be the standout - genuine pace.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Absolutely, but I wouldn't touch anyone who can't kick.

I'm not big on recycles. We need a big bloke but I'd stick with just the one 2nd hand bloke.

Griffen and Cooney run and carry but I'd be wanting Ward, Wood and O'Keefe to play some games.

If I was to get a runner, Lovett would be the standout - genuine pace.

Agree with you SS.

We've got enough ordinary disposal in our side as it is.

Lovett is certainly a player I would be inclined to chase. We're lacking in genuine pace & run/carry - he offers plenty of both. However, if we're going after a tall then it would seem unlikely we'd be able to make a play for Lovett.

We definitely need to either find or develop some players who are willing to run and carry the football. Perhaps Stack is an option, in terms of what we already have on our list?

[bornadog]

Aker hit the nail on the head tonight (footy show), if your old forget it, with GC17 coming in, drafting young players is the go.

[dog town]

Absolutely, but I wouldn't touch anyone who can't kick.

I'm not big on recycles. We need a big bloke but I'd stick with just the one 2nd hand bloke.

Griffen and Cooney run and carry but I'd be wanting Ward, Wood and O'Keefe to play some games.

If I was to get a runner, Lovett would be the standout - genuine pace. I just worry that we dont really have an area of our game to hang our hat on now. We are middle of the road for pace and we dont have a side built around quality talls. When we were up and running this season we were just a workman like side. We were winning statistical categories like contested ball and clearances. We have to hope that we can get back to that and sustain it but then add some polish on top of that.

We need a tall forward as a first priority but we need some explosiveness in the running department as well IMO. Ward, O'Keefe, Reid and Wood seem like good kids but not alot of premiership sides contain alot of guys 23 and under. It can be done but it makes it tougher.

I am a Lovett fan as well. Anyone who can break the lines is what I am after. I think we showed against the swans and cats that we can match it in close with most sides. We will naturally improve in that area as pretty much our whole midfield division will become more powerful over the next year or two.

[Desipura]

On the live-chat of the Hun today, Aker said we need to focus on a ruckman. Interesting that was his priority not a forward KPP.

If that is more the reality from the clubs perspective, should we look as Simon Taylor and get in his ear about missing the grand final? Are their others out there.

Skipper is the only back-up and is not to AFL standard as a ruk.

Interesting.
And Aker would be correct although we need a fwd as much as we need a ruckman.

[Mantis]

Do we look at a Ray for Lovett trade?

[Desipura]

Do we look at a Ray for Lovett trade?
We do......but Essendon won't!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We do......but Essendon won't!

Why wouldn't they?

I doubt they'd be offered much better. They aren't shopping him around because he wants to leave, they're shopping him around because he's had too many indiscretions. Therefore, surely his price is not worthy of a first round draft pick.

IMO the trade would make sense. Ray moves to Essendon for greater opportunity and helps them with a bit of experience/running ability, whilst we pick up another needed ball carrier with genuine pace.

[bulldogtragic]

Why wouldn't they?

I doubt they'd be offered much better. They aren't shopping him around because he wants to leave, they're shopping him around because he's had too many indiscretions. Therefore, surely his price is not worthy of a first round draft pick.

IMO the trade would make sense. Ray moves to Essendon for greater opportunity and helps them with a bit of experience/running ability, whilst we pick up another needed ball carrier with genuine pace.
I agree. If Farren had a great year, you'd say he was worth more. Lovett hasn't had a brilliant year, but is worth more on face value. Then factor in all his problems and untaken second opportunities, and haggling aside, it is probably a very close thing. Lovett would be good for us if he keeps his head on straiht and Ray would be a good fit for the dons.

I think unless someone is going to offer us a semi-decent KPP for him (i.e. Rusling, Reid, Thorpe etc - Which is very highly unlikely) then i think this could be a good straight swap.

[bulldogtragic]

2008 Comparison

Stat - Lovett - Ray

Age: 26 -22
Height: 183 - 187
Weight: 75 - 84

Kick: 12 - 7.9
H/ball: 6.2 - 11.2
Tackles: 2.8 - 2.5
Marks: 4.3 - 5.8
Goals: 0.8 - 0.3


Lovett is 4 years older, has discipline issues, is smaller and lighter than Farren and averages less possessions and less marks than Farren and tackles and scores just about at the same level.

Looks similar to me.

Essendon should be thinking long and hard about it. They get a player looking to establish themselves in their own right as a former number 4 pick. His head is screwed on right, he would be one of the quickest and fittest at the club and is a few years advanced of the group Knights is putting together.

Win/Win or nil all draw.

Either way, it would ge a good trade.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I didn't realise Lovett was 26?

Are you sure that's correct?

I thought he was still reasonably young. 23 or 24ish.

[bulldogtragic]

I didn't realise Lovett was 26?

Are you sure that's correct?

I thought he was still reasonably young. 23 or 24ish.
25 and 10 months to be more accurate.

[Dancin' Douggy]

2008 Comparison

Stat - Lovett - Ray

Age: 26 -22
Height: 183 - 187
Weight: 75 - 84

Kick: 12 - 7.9
H/ball: 6.2 - 11.2
Tackles: 2.8 - 2.5
Marks: 4.3 - 5.8
Goals: 0.8 - 0.3


Lovett is 4 years older, has discipline issues, is smaller and lighter than Farren and averages less possessions and less marks than Farren and tackles and scores just about at the same level.

Looks similar to me.

Essendon should be thinking long and hard about it. They get a player looking to establish themselves in their own right as a former number 4 pick. His head is screwed on right, he would be one of the quickest and fittest at the club and is a few years advanced of the group Knights is putting together.

Win/Win or nil all draw.

Either way, it would ge a good trade.

Looking at those stats, why would we want Lovett?

[bulldogtragic]

Looking at those stats, why would we want Lovett?
Not a bad replacement for Ray and/or Eagleton.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

25 and 10 months to be more accurate.

That's strange, I thought he was younger. I wonder if that has any effect on whether or not we chase him, more so in regards to his behavioral problems. At 26, it's unlikely we'll be able to 'turn him around' so to speak.


Looking at those stats, why would we want Lovett?

He's a little inconsistent, but it's his ability to break the lines with pace & use his good foot skills that are of attraction. Ray finds enough of the ball, he just doesn't do enough with it. Lovett would be a better fit for our side.

[LostDoggy]

In regards to a KP forward, the Bulldogs looked at Damon White last year, at 25 is he still an option worth pursuing? He's 25, 193cm and 95kg. I believe he comes out of contract this year as well.

[bulldogtragic]

In regards to a KP forward, the Bulldogs looked at Damon White last year, at 25 is he still an option worth pursuing? He's 25, 193cm and 95kg. I believe he comes out of contract this year as well.
Degenerative knees.

He failed the bulldogs medical i believe.

[The Coon Dog]

In regards to a KP forward, the Bulldogs looked at Damon White last year, at 25 is he still an option worth pursuing? He's 25, 193cm and 95kg. I believe he comes out of contract this year as well.

I get scared when names like Damon White get thrown up. They only do so because they have a bit of height about them, not because they are good players.

I want decent height, not average height.

You are right about us enquiring after him last season. Port wanted too much. They would obviously want less but I'd still not bother.

[bulldogtragic]

I get scared when names like Damon White get thrown up. They only do so because they have a bit of height about them, not because they are good players.

I want decent height, not average height.

You are right about us enquiring after him last season. Port wanted too much. They would obviously want less but I'd still not bother.
I also get nervous. As these players haven't done a lot as a third string forwards, and yet we expect them to come top us and get the #1 defender and we expect more.

I.e. Boyle. Hasn't done a heap on the 5th defender, yet some think he will do something on the 1st defender.

Sorry, we either need a proven performer (i.e. Hall) or a kid who hasn't had opportunities (i.e. Thorpe).

White, Boyle and co. is a waste and i would prefer punt on a kid like Boumann or Jesse Wells than payout for them.

[The Coon Dog]

White, Boyle and co. is a waste and i would prefer punt on a kid like Boumann or Jesse Wells than payout for them.

If your keen for a punt I'm prepared to offer 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 -1 he doesn't make it. ;)

[LostDoggy]

I must agree, I'd like Hall at the Dogs for two years.

On a side issue, any word on head recruiter once Clayten leaves for GC17?

[bulldogtragic]

If your keen for a punt I'm prepared to offer 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 -1 he doesn't make it. ;)
:)

What i meant is i would rather try an unknown quantity like him with a pick than use that pick or higher on White/Boyle etc.

Sometimes you win (Lake) sometimes you lose (Wells).

[hujsh]

15 Lovett disposals would equal about 25 from Ray

[Dogs 24/7]

I must agree, I'd like Hall at the Dogs for two years.

On a side issue, any word on head recruiter once Clayten leaves for GC17?

Clayton leaves after the 2 drafts and I don't think we should chase Hall to hard at all.

[Desipura]

Why wouldn't they?

I doubt they'd be offered much better. They aren't shopping him around because he wants to leave, they're shopping him around because he's had too many indiscretions. Therefore, surely his price is not worthy of a first round draft pick.

IMO the trade would make sense. Ray moves to Essendon for greater opportunity and helps them with a bit of experience/running ability, whilst we pick up another needed ball carrier with genuine pace.
How many player for player swaps have you seen in recent times? Clubs do not want to be seen as getting the raw end of the deal so they sway towards exchanging picks as well as a player.
Lovett's upside is greater than Ray's IMHO.

[bulldogtragic]

From BF:

Fremantle Lose: Warnock and Campbell
Fremantle Gain: Ray and Carlton's 2nd rounder

Carlton Lose: 2nd rounder and Fisher
Carlton Gain: Warnock and Bulldog's 3rd rounder

Bulldogs Gain: Fisher and Campbell
Bulldogs Lose: Ray and 3rd rounder


Thoughts?

[Sockeye Salmon]

From BF:

Fremantle Lose: Warnock and Campbell
Fremantle Gain: Ray and Carlton's 2nd rounder

Carlton Lose: 2nd rounder and Fisher
Carlton Gain: Warnock and Bulldog's 3rd rounder

Bulldogs Gain: Fisher and Campbell
Bulldogs Lose: Ray and 3rd rounder


Thoughts?

According to the Freo board, Warnock is worth pick 6 and Campbell is worth Ray and pick 32.

[bulldogtragic]

According to the Freo board, Warnock is worth pick 6 and Campbell is worth Ray and pick 32.
Exactly why i haven't posted there in over 12 months... Thank god for WOOF!!!!!!!!!