Will Minson - Too short to ever be a really effective ruckman?

[LostDoggy]

Watching Will Minson on Friday night it really struck me that even though he played OK I don't think he is a genuine ruckman over the course of a season.
He's as tough as hell, throws his body around and is very competitive but really lacks a bit of height and athleticism that is required to be a really good ruckman.

To make matters a little bit worse even when he is moved up forward he isn't a strong enough mark nor does he really grasp how to position himself so that he could become a dangerous ruck/forward combination player. I'm getting a stronger belief that Minson will just be a decent ruckman albeit one also that needs to be supported by someone like Street.

He is only very young in ruck terms so am I judging him too harshly?
Do many people here think Minson can develop into a quality ruckman or a quality ruckman who can also be effective up forward?

[bulldogtragic]

John Barnes was shorter than Will and someone I thought was an excellent ruck, admittadly his jump is probably higher than Will's. I think Will needs to continue to learn about rucking and over time will get a better understanding with his midfielders, and then should be judged.

For Will he needs another quality ruckman to help. When he plays with Skipper, well lets just say Will has all the pressure because Skipper.... should be delisted. There i've said it. When Street comes back and can take the no 1 ruck spot it should take some pressure off, perhaps Darcy as well coming back might help. With more talls we could look at using him more forward or using him back ala Scotty Wynd.

At the moment Will's biggest problem is not haviong another decent ruck in the team.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Watching Will Minson on Friday night it really struck me that even though he played OK I don't think he is a genuine ruckman over the course of a season.
He's as tough as hell, throws his body around and is very competitive but really lacks a bit of height an athleticism that is required to be a really good ruckman.

To make matters a little bit worse even when he is moved up forward he isn't a strong enough mark nor does he really grasp how to position himself so that he could become a dangerous ruck/forward combination player. I'm getting a stronger belief that Minson will just be a decent ruckman albeit one also that needs to be supported by someone like Street.

He is only very young in ruck terms so am I judging him too harshly?
Do many people here think Minson can develop into a quality ruckman or a quality ruckman who can also be effective up forward?

I agree that in theory Minson is probably 2-4cms short, or lacks a bit of extra athleticism. However; I still think he could become a real quality ruckmen. His aggression and attack on the ball is first rate for a big guy. He's a real leader out on the field. He's mobile too, and seems to have further improved in this area judging by the first two games. He has been involved a lot more in the play and his skills, for mine, are pretty good too.

Over time, he will learn to position himself better, and thus take a lot more marks than he currently does. Experience will help him a lot and I have no doubt he'll be able to play forward in a few years time. he just needs time.

IMO, Minson will play a similiar role for us as King does for Geelong in that he won't spend big chunks of a game up forward, but will be able to pinch hit reasonably well whilst also being effective as a Ruckmena round the ground.

And because he's just so strong, with the added experience, he'll be OK as a Ruckmen at the stoppages. As for centre bounces, I'm not sure, he might struggle against the high leaping blokes but certainly the contests around the ground I think he'll be very good with his strength, palming down to the likes of Cooney & Griffen.

[Go_Dogs]

I agree that in theory Minson is probably 2-4cms short, or lacks a bit of extra athleticism. However; I still think he could become a real quality ruckmen. His aggression and attack on the ball is first rate for a big guy. He's a real leader out on the field. He's mobile too, and seems to have further improved in this area judging by the first two games. He has been involved a lot more in the play and his skills, for mine, are pretty good too.

Over time, he will learn to position himself better, and thus take a lot more marks than he currently does. Experience will help him a lot and I have no doubt he'll be able to play forward in a few years time. he just needs time.

IMO, Minson will play a similiar role for us as King does for Geelong in that he won't spend big chunks of a game up forward, but will be able to pinch hit reasonably well whilst also being effective as a Ruckmena round the ground.

And because he's just so strong, with the added experience, he'll be OK as a Ruckmen at the stoppages. As for centre bounces, I'm not sure, he might struggle against the high leaping blokes but certainly the contests around the ground I think he'll be very good with his strength, palming down to the likes of Cooney & Griffen.

Good post. Minson has a lot of potential, and for a guy so young he's already been around for a while. He does work well with Cooney in the centre, and hopefully when him and Griffen are back they can all work well together. I didn't mind some of Minson's efforts going forward last year, he's surer on the lead than Street is, and not too bad of a set shot.

I'm not too sure about the "too short" business, there are others shorter, and Skipper is tiny in ruck terms but seems to be able to compete.

[GVGjr]

I'm not too sure about the "too short" business, there are others shorter, and Skipper is tiny in ruck terms but seems to be able to compete.

I think the main difference is that Skipper has a fair leap which compensates for his lack of height. Minson is taller, heavier but not as athletic. Skipper is only a part timer in his ruckwork while Minson needs to be able to carry the load against good opponents.
A Minson and Street combination works pretty well from my perspective.

[Dry Rot]

A Minson and Street combination works pretty well from my perspective.

How do you rate it vs the other 15 clubs? Struggling to make the top 8?

[Go_Dogs]

I'm all for a Minson / Darcy combination. I highly doubt we'll see it, but boy, it would be a good tandem.

[bornadog]

At 198 cm, I think Minson does have the size for rucking, but he does have to improve on his marking around the ground. Skipper is way too short to be a ruckman even thou he is able to compete to acertain extent. At 193 cm he is listed the same height as the Grants, Bairds, A. Everrit, but shorter than Walsh and a few others. Wight is 200cm, should he be trained as a ruckman?

[southerncross]

At 198 cm, I think Minson does have the size for rucking, but he does have to improve on his marking around the ground. Skipper is way too short to be a ruckman even thou he is able to compete to acertain extent. At 193 cm he is listed the same height as the Grants, Bairds, A. Everrit, but shorter than Walsh and a few others. Wight is 200cm, should he be trained as a ruckman?

Without a big leap I think Minson will struggle to be regarded as a top ruckman in the competition. He should be more than serviceable but unlike a White, Cox or Sandilands he is going to need someone like a Peter Street to support him. I think he was drafted as a key forward/ruckman and I think it shows that he just isn't a natural in the ruck position. Given his age this is hardly surprising so I suspect we will see steady improvement in him over the next few seasons. A mate of mine reckons he will be a better version of the Swans Darren Jolly.

[southerncross]

I'm all for a Minson / Darcy combination. I highly doubt we'll see it, but boy, it would be a good tandem.

Very doubtful in my opinion. I think Darcy's days of doing any more than a bit of ruck work up forward are really numbered. It would have been great for Minson's development to be nurtured along by someone like Darcy on the field.

[alwaysadog]

Very doubtful in my opinion. I think Darcy's days of doing any more than a bit of ruck work up forward are really numbered. It would have been great for Minson's development to be nurtured along by someone like Darcy on the field.

Darcy will be lucky to ruck in the forward line. I don't think Minson has got back to anything like the form he started to show a couple of seasons ago. Yes he knows more about the caper and is better in many of the technical aspects but the inspiration and drive seem to have gone.

He looks fitter than ever and a better shape but the spark isn't yet evident. Of course we may be expecting him to be up too soon. If a season is a long grind for any group it's the ruckmen.

[Dry Rot]

All this points to the importance to us of one peter street.

[Sockeye Salmon]

All this points to the importance to us of one peter street.

God help us.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't think Minson has got back to anything like the form he started to show a couple of seasons ago.

I think he would have been better last year with fewer broken legs.

What did you expect from him last year? He missed over 3 months in the middle of the season.

[Dry Rot]

God help us.

Got any better suggestions?

I'm with you on being concerned that we haven't been drafting ruckmen lately.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Got any better suggestions?

I'm with you on being concerned that we haven't been drafting ruckmen lately.

Kidnap Dean Cox?

[bornadog]

I think he would have been better last year with fewer broken legs.

What did you expect from him last year? He missed over 3 months in the middle of the season.

Once he gets back to his form, he will be awesome. One thing about Minson is his presence on the ground combined with his aggression and enthusiasm, he can turn a game around. He will be turning 22 in April and is still not at his peak for a big man.

[alwaysadog]

I think he would have been better last year with fewer broken legs.

What did you expect from him last year? He missed over 3 months in the middle of the season.

I'm not having a go at him. the leg took longer than initially expected to heal etc so that may suggest it was a worse break than anticipated. My point was to suggest that the problem at the moment as I see it is not the issue of size but one of form, which while reasonable is not sparkling. I did say, "Of course we may be expecting him to be up too soon. If a season is a long grind for any group it's the ruckmen."

[Go_Dogs]

I really don't think we can win a premiership with a guy like Street being carried by others. Sure he can tap the ball - but his influence on play is next to nothing, and we don't win any more clearance when he's rucking.

[alwaysadog]

Got any better suggestions?

I'm with you on being concerned that we haven't been drafting ruckmen lately.

Clayton is on record as saying he is very cautious about drafting young ruckmen as they may never develop the body for the collision aspects of the craft. I guess it was Minson's body that got him drafted and he may be awaiting another body type like that.

[bornadog]

Clayton is on record as saying he is very cautious about drafting young ruckmen as they may never develop the body for the collision aspects of the craft. I guess it was Minson's body that got him drafted and he may be awaiting another body type like that.

Well if you can't draft a ruckman, how the hell do you get one?

[Dry Rot]

Well if you can't draft a ruckman, how the hell do you get one?

I suppose the "draft the best player" folk would have to say trade for him, although some teams curiously disagree with Clayton and draft duds like Cox, Sandilands etc

[Go_Dogs]

Sam Jacobs was the name I was sprouting on about, his body is ready, much like Will's when we drafted him.

Interesting that Tippet (I think that's the right name) who the Crows drafted had his first hit out for the club against Melbourne last weekend. He did very well - especially considering that he has only played about 20 games of football.

If I were Clayton, I'd start following junior basketball too, that's for sure.

[bornadog]

I suppose the "draft the best player" folk would have to say trade for him, although some teams curiously disagree with Clayton and draft duds like Cox, Sandilands etc

I don't believe its soemthing you can rely on. Perhaps you have try a combination of trading and drafting and hope you get it right.

What I don't understand is, why do the taller guys take longer to mature into a good footballer? Why should it make any difference?

[Sockeye Salmon]

What I don't understand is, why do the taller guys take longer to mature into a good footballer? Why should it make any difference?

The taller guys haven't always stopped growing and until they do they are usually unco. Once they stop getting taller they start to fill out and their co-ordination improves.

Strength is also often more important in the roles that bigger guys play. Could you imagine how a skinny 18 yo ruckman would avoid getting get shoved out of the way at a boundary throw-in by someone like Scott Wynd?

[alwaysadog]

Well if you can't draft a ruckman, how the hell do you get one?

Not quite bornadog;2684. I said cautious not can't. There is a world of difference.

I went on to suggest that perhaps Minson's physical maturity was the reason for his selection and that Clayton might be waiting till we had a pick that let us select a suitable player with a similar body type.

IMHO at this early state of our judgement on last year's selections we appear to have drafted and selected very well even down to the rookies. As far as an additional ruckman is concerned I don't think they will be in any hurry, the 2007 draft is the earliest I expected one and possibly not till the year after

[alwaysadog]

I suppose the "draft the best player" folk would have to say trade for him, although some teams curiously disagree with Clayton and draft duds like Cox, Sandilands etc

Yes DR these two have certainly done well, Cox if I recall correctly was a rookie pick. On the other hand would you like to list all the would be ruck selections who never made it?

[alwaysadog]

The taller guys haven't always stopped growing and until they do they are usually unco. Once they stop getting taller they start to fill out and their co-ordination improves.

Strength is also often more important in the roles that bigger guys play. Could you imagine how a skinny 18 yo ruckman would avoid getting get shoved out of the way at a boundary throw-in by someone like Scott Wynd?

Quite right Sockeye an imature body in a collision position is a recipe for disaster.

When did Street stop growing? I think he was growing until 22 at least. The bigger they are the longer it seems to take on average.

[LostDoggy]

Yes DR these two have certainly done well, Cox if I recall correctly was a rookie pick. On the other hand would you like to list all the would be ruck selections who never made it?

It would probably be an interesting read but I still don't think this is as hard as we seem to want to make it. It just goes to show you that we have a coach and a recruiting manager that just dont rate the position at all. Port recruit ruckman and even the Blues do but we just never ever roll the dice and select a strong bodied big lump of a lad and try and mold him into the position Minson aside. We all know we should have at least one more on the list but they cannot seem to find a spot for one not even on an extended rookie list.

[bornadog]

Watching Will Minson on Friday night it really struck me that even though he played OK I don't think he is a genuine ruckman over the course of a season.
He's as tough as hell, throws his body around and is very competitive but really lacks a bit of height and athleticism that is required to be a really good ruckman.

To make matters a little bit worse even when he is moved up forward he isn't a strong enough mark nor does he really grasp how to position himself so that he could become a dangerous ruck/forward combination player. I'm getting a stronger belief that Minson will just be a decent ruckman albeit one also that needs to be supported by someone like Street.

He is only very young in ruck terms so am I judging him too harshly?
Do many people here think Minson can develop into a quality ruckman or a quality ruckman who can also be effective up forward?

Sorry to bump this thread BB, but I think we are starting to see a real genuine ruckman emerging. Minson is now ranked 5th in hitouts and thats after a slow start to the season.

In the past few weeks he has been the dominant ruckman on the ground, averaging over 20 hitouts a game. His work around the ground has been good as well, even though he is not athletic. Last night he put on 9 tackles, some great goal assists and is using his bulk in packs. Still has alot to learn, but has alot of upside. I think he is playing better than Huddo.

What do others think?

[comrade]

Pity they don't rank '20m thumps to advantage' as he'd be number one with a bullet.

[Rocco Jones]

I had a go at Minson here and on BF a month or so into the season and I am glad to say he is proving me wrong.

[LostDoggy]

I thought that Big Will was really the catalyst for getting the team going in the 3rd quarter last night against Richmond. He was aggressive, won taps to our advantage and allowed our guys in the middle to start dominating the clearances again.

I really see him improving and Huddo is pushing him onto bigger and better things. I really rate our 2 ruckmen as the best ruck combination in the league.

Minnow going forward also was good - a few strong marks and some hard contests to bring the ball to ground.

He is a key player and is just getting better and better.
Love watching him play as well.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm firmly in Will's corner.

[The Coon Dog]

I thought that Big Will was really the catalyst for getting the team going in the 3rd quarter last night against Richmond.
He needed to too. He grabbed the ball from a centre bounce & couldn't dispose of it & was rightly pinged holding the ball. Richmond goaled from that foray forward & won the next 4 centre clearences to kick 5 quick ones! It was the catalyst for a huge momentum shift.

[boydogs]

Pity they don't rank '20m thumps to advantage' as he'd be number one with a bullet.

I reckon they go 30m before even bouncing
Doing well at the moment Will, got in my votes for last night

[Rance Fan]

Is Huddo much taller? I wouldnt say Huddo is much more athletic either. What the two of them may lack, they make up for it in intensity, commitment and aggression in my eyes. They both lead from the front. And i bet the opposition ruckman knows that they have played against them, they make em hurt and earn it.
Cordy may in years to come may be the athletic type ruckman.

[alwaysadog]

I think Will is emerging nicely and they are starting to become an influence. Still a way to go IMHO, but I really like they way they look after the smaller players. Although we've had some very good ruckmen it's a long time since we had some who saw that as part of their role. I can see why the players put Huddo into the leadership group.

[The Coon Dog]

I can see why the players put Huddo into the leadership group.
Just on that, it was Huddo who presented Brennan Stack with his jumper last night.

[LostDoggy]

Hudson seems to be relishing his role in the Leadership team, was he in a leadership role at Adelaide?

[Mofra]

Hudson seems to be relishing his role in the Leadership team, was he in a leadership role at Adelaide?
I don't think so, but they are a bunch of bare-faced nancy boys.

We clearly need more facial hair in the side. Jarrod Grant's occasional week-old bum fluff just isn't cutting it at the moment.

[Ozza]

I have been watching the centre bounces pretty closely over the last few weeks - and the recurring them is that when Minson is in the middle - we get it out. I much prefer him to be in the centre square if we aren't going well during a game - and his thumps forward or sidewards really clear it out well and get us running.

[The Coon Dog]

I have been watching the centre bounces pretty closely over the last few weeks - and the recurring them is that when Minson is in the middle - we get it out. I much prefer him to be in the centre square if we aren't going well during a game - and his thumps forward or sidewards really clear it out well and get us running.

I must say I haven't paid that much notice, but on Friday Will was in the centre when he grabbed it from the bounce & was pinged. Richmond goaled from that & took away the next 4 clearences whilst Will was in there.

Be interesting to see the stats on how many centre clearences we have won & who was the ruckman on those occassions.

[Ozza]

In the 2nd quarter we were screaming for Will to be put in the centre when the Tiges kept getting the clearances and most of Hudson's - he seemed to be bringing the ball straight down and there would be a second ball up.

[The Coon Dog]

In the 2nd quarter we were screaming for Will to be put in the centre when the Tiges kept getting the clearances and most of Hudson's - he seemed to be bringing the ball straight down and there would be a second ball up.

I was talking about the second quarter, just prior to half time.

[azabob]

I have been watching the centre bounces pretty closely over the last few weeks - and the recurring them is that when Minson is in the middle - we get it out. I much prefer him to be in the centre square if we aren't going well during a game - and his thumps forward or sidewards really clear it out well and get us running.

I thought he was very good against Geelong in that regard.

[BulldogBelle]

Minson is 198 cm's

Add his agression, leap and strength and he is easily 'tall' enough to be an AFL level ruckman

[bulldogsman]

Good to see we've finally got some ruckmen. In a few years time, Cordy to ruck in the forward line and stay there. Big Will/Roughead to ruck and work defensively to sure up our defense. Sounds good to me :D

[soupman]

I think Will is our best ruckman, and that generally when we get a run on Will is in the middle for most of it. He's not necessarily the best ruckman at stopping opposition clearances, but he is very good at creating our own centre clearances. If you compare him to Hudson, I see Hudson more as the minimiser, who tries to minimise the efficiency and effectiveness of the opposition clearances not through his ruckwork, but his second efforts. Minson on the other hand lacks that defenseive ability in the centre, but often creates something either with his big bashes forward or by grabbing it out of the ruck. I'm fine if he gets caught occasionally, as I feel that it works more often than not, and often it works fairly well, as long as he picks his moments carefully.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I must say I haven't paid that much notice, but on Friday Will was in the centre when he grabbed it from the bounce & was pinged. Richmond goaled from that & took away the next 4 clearences whilst Will was in there.

Be interesting to see the stats on how many centre clearences we have won & who was the ruckman on those occassions.

The first two (including the HTB free) were Will, the next 3 were Huddo.

The last one (right before 1/2 time) was Will again and we won the last clearance.

[dog town]

We are number 1 in the league for first possessions so the two ruckmen must be doing something right along with the guys around the stoppages.

[Mofra]

We are number 1 in the league for first possessions so the two ruckmen must be doing something right along with the guys around the stoppages.
I would think Minson is a big reason for this, he seems to have improved his tapwork in the off season. I Should think Boyd's improvement is another factor, with Picken letting him concentrate more on getting the ball.

[bornadog]

I would think Minson is a big reason for this, he seems to have improved his tapwork in the off season. I Should think Boyd's improvement is another factor, with Picken letting him concentrate more on getting the ball.

Also Minson is now starting to mature as a player. We have always said the big guys take longer to develop. Minson's ruck work in the past 4 weeks has been fantastic.

[bulldogtragic]

Tap outs, 23 possies, 3 goals straight. Stand out game for him. Wilbur is really coming into his element this year.

[Mofra]

Best game I've ever seen him play. Lade & Brogan aren't exactly hacks, either.

[Rocco Jones]

Best game I've ever seen him play.

By a fair margin too.

[LostDoggy]

Tap outs, 23 possies, 3 goals straight. Stand out game for him. Wilbur is really coming into his element this year.

We need him to this, in a prelim final.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Minson has had a very good season so far. His ruck work has been very good and he's having a presence around the ground and at stoppages. The influence of Hudson is clearly rubbing off on Minson and it's improved his game a lot.

[LostDoggy]

I think this thread is as good a place as any to acknowledge the work of our ruck coach Johnny Barnes.

He has to take a lot of credit for Will's improved ruckwork, as well as the entire centrebounce set up for different styles of ruckmen in Will and Huddo. This also holds Ayce and Roughy in good stead, as they will be learning from one of the best in the business.