Ray has asked to be traded

[bornadog]

Will be made official today.

Source, SEN

[bulldogtragic]

We will get SFA for him. Why didn't he ask after the Collingwood final two years ago.

Very upset with him. VERY!!! :(

Ray for Hall or someone maybe...?

[LostDoggy]

Best for both parties.

Now the fun part.

Ray to Eagles for a swap in 2nd and 3rd rounders.

[bulldogtragic]

Best for both parties.

Now the fun part.

Ray to Eagles for a swap in 2nd and 3rd rounders.
Onlt benefit is we would get Banner. Something we wouldn't get with our natural second rounder. Although what will we use to get a KPP.

[bornadog]

Ray's days as a Bulldog may end
Michael Gleeson | September 25, 2008

WESTERN Bulldogs' Farren Ray, who was dropped for the team's losing preliminary final, will decide this morning whether to quit the Dogs.

The lightly built midfielder will meet his manager, Rick Olarenshaw, to consider whether to seek a trade or remain at the Bulldogs.

Ray, the No. 4 pick in the 2003 draft, met with coach Rodney Eade on Tuesday and was told he was still wanted at Whitten Oval.

But having been on the fringe for several years, he might be tempted to move.

When playing his best football Ray is comfortably in the Dogs' best side, but he has struggled for consistency and now faces competition for his place in the side from the likes of Dylan Addison and Callan Ward.

"We will make a decision on (his future) tomorrow," Olarenshaw said.

"I am having breakfast with Farren to make a decision whether he wants to commit to the Bulldogs or whether he wants to seek another opportunity.

"'We will make a decision then one way or the other."

A super-quick outside player, Ray would appear to suit Fremantle's desperate need for pace in a side that plays half its games at the spacious Subiaco.

Ray also hails from country Western Australia, and the two Perth clubs have picks two and three in the pre-season draft.

"If Farren decides he wants to leave the Bulldogs (the WA clubs) are perfectly placed to get him, for sure, and I guess returning to WA is an option, but I know he loves living in Melbourne and he is not a Perth boy either, he is a country WA boy, so it's not as big a lure to going home," Olarenshaw said.

"But if he decides he wants a new opportunity, I guess the first port of call for us would be Fremantle and West Coast … but he might want to seek another opportunity to stay in Melbourne."

Ray's teammate, ruckman Peter Street, has been told by the Dogs he will not be offered a new contract next year and they will seek to trade him.

[The Coon Dog]

Very upset with him. VERY!!! :(

I'm not too sure why you are upset with Farren.

[LostDoggy]

Onlt benefit is we would get Banner. Something we wouldn't get with our natural second rounder. Although what will we use to get a KPP.

The 3rd rounder will be around pick 35??

We got Aker with around the same pick and thats similar to the pick which saw Everitt go to the Swans.

Id say that would get the job done for Hall.

[bornadog]

Best for both parties.

Now the fun part.

Ray to Eagles for a swap in 2nd and 3rd rounders.




"If Farren decides he wants to leave the Bulldogs (the WA clubs) are perfectly placed to get him, for sure, and I guess returning to WA is an option, but I know he loves living in Melbourne and he is not a Perth boy either, he is a country WA boy, so it's not as big a lure to going home," Olarenshaw said.

"But if he decides he wants a new opportunity, I guess the first port of call for us would be Fremantle and West Coast … but he might want to seek another opportunity to stay in Melbourne."

.

Perth not necesarily on his mind

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not too sure why you are upset with Farren.
So much potential.... Another wasted top 5 pick.

Angry at him or circumstances, i'm not too sure... That and we wont get too much for him after some very very average perormances over another poor season is ultra frustrating.

[bulldogtragic]

The 3rd rounder will be around pick 35??

We got Aker with around the same pick and thats similar to the pick which saw Everitt go to the Swans.

Id say that would get the job done for Hall.
True Borgy, didn't realise is was that high. They may want a little more though. Perhaps Eagleton, Wight or Street maybe....

[LostDoggy]

Barry Hall is in Melbourne at the moment. Saw him in at Fitness First Richmond last night and again this morning

[bulldogtragic]

Barry Hall is in Melbourne at the moment. Saw him in at Fitness First Richmond last night and again this morning
Surely you asked him if he's going to Whitten Oval?

[LostDoggy]

Surely you asked him if he's going to Whitten Oval?

And if you havent yet....get onto it!

(Oh and farewell Farren, i will miss your clangers ;))

[The Coon Dog]

I'm fairly disappointed to be honest. I'd love to have retained him.

[bulldogtragic]

Does his decision speak volumes about the coaching staff or about other players who he thinks would go past him. At his best he's in the 22. Does he think other players will go past him?

[bornadog]

I'm fairly disappointed to be honest. I'd love to have retained him.

Me too.

I thought he was ok in the Hawthorn prelim, not the worse. Two clangers in the first quarter and the whole bulldog supporter community blamed him for the loss. I am sure he cracked the shits when he was dropped for the rest of the finals.

[Bulldog4life]

I'm fairly disappointed to be honest. I'd love to have retained him.

Same here CD. He had a miserable run this year with injuries. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a very successful career with his new Club.

[GetDimmaBack]

Well, it maintains our consistency with Top 10 draft picks (Coons & Griff aside).

Ray's best footy is still in front of him. I remember reading that he didn't play football until his mid teens, and that he may take a while to develop.

Looks like another club could reap the benefit...

[Happy Days]

Damn...he just better not play well now or I will be super-pissed.

[bornadog]

Damn...he just better not play well now or I will be super-pissed.

You will have to look for a new user name, send a PM to the mods for advice on changing and keeping your posts.

[Cyberdoggie]

The recruiters were fooled by Farren't engine and his ability to find the pill, they didn't realize that he is very slow to dispose of the ball and has a terrible kicking action on both sides of his body.

Farren is a decent footballer but he'll never be much more than a tagger who can run all day.

Wise move to trade him while we can.

I'd also like to get rid of eagleton as i think finals football really showed the difference between the mice and the men in our side. Guys like Harbrow shone while Eagleton and Ray were found out.

Enough said.

[DOG GOD]

Maybe the match committee are comitted to a clean-out of sorts before GC17.

Surely o'shea is destined to the rookie list....as MJP said in an earlier thread, you cant have too many on the list that has NO chance of playing in 2009.

[G-Mo77]

Really disappointing news. I like Ray. I still think he has a lot to give to to the club and I think moving him will bite us right in the backside. It will be sad to see him go. Good luck to him, I hope he suceeds where ever he may land.

[Desipura]

Richmond could do with another outside wingman. Schultz anyone?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd also like to get rid of eagleton as i think finals football really showed the difference between the mice and the men in our side. Guys like Harbrow shone while Eagleton and Ray were found out.

Yep - I would be pretty disappointed if Eagleton was retained, especially after the whole West incident, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Eagle keep his spot. I read somewhere he has one year left on his contract? That, plus Ray's departure, and he might be given a last year. He'd be pretty damn lucky though.

How old is Eagle?

I couldn't imagine any side trading for him, but it'd be worthwhile to exercise the possibility anyhow.



Surely o'shea is destined to the rookie list....as MJP said in an earlier thread, you cant have too many on the list that has NO chance of playing in 2009.

Good point MJP raised, and I can't see O'Shea being kept on the senior list. Aside from his courage, he hasn't seemed to have shown a whole lot and is still pretty raw. Perhaps a rookie listing will be in order, though they may decide to cut their losses especially if this draft is considered strong.

[Ozza]

To be honest, I don't think there is a place for Farren Ray in our best 22, we have many players of his type - and I don't think we've ever seen anything alarmingly good from him.

Happy for him to be traded while he has some currency. Happy to never seen him in our colours again. Bit of a Sammy Power thing - we were never going to get his best out of him when we already have so many other better midfielders.

[Mantis]

Yep - I would be pretty disappointed if Eagleton was retained, especially after the whole West incident, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Eagle keep his spot. I read somewhere he has one year left on his contract? That, plus Ray's departure, and he might be given a last year. He'd be pretty damn lucky though.

How old is Eagle?

I couldn't imagine any side trading for him, but it'd be worthwhile to exercise the possibility anyhow.


I'm willing to chip in some money to help pay out his contract, anyone want to help me round up a collection?

Eagleton is 30 in Novemeber.

[Go_Dogs]

Disappointing news re: Ray, hopefully we are able to broker a reasonable deal during trade week.

FWIW, I thought Farren looked alright this year, especially given how far behind the 8-ball he was after a lengthy lay-off. Disappointed to see him go, but on the flip side, I look forward to seeing what our other young midfielders can do.

[bornadog]

Ray quits Bulldogs
25/09/2008 2:03 PM
Sportal

The 22-year-old midfielder, a first-round selection in the 2003 National Draft, has formally advised the Western Bulldogs that he wants out and is keen to continue his AFL career with another club.

In a prepared statement on Thursday, the Bulldogs said that following meetings with his management and the club, 'Ray has indicated that he would like to be considered for a trade during the upcoming AFL Trade week in October'.

"The Western Bulldogs consider Ray a required player for 2009," the statement said.

"However the club is prepared to consider a trade that is equitable for both Ray and the Western Bulldogs."

Ray, who came to the Bulldogs with pick No.4 in 2003 from Peel Thunder in Western Australia, played 75 AFL games including 13 this year.

He was dropped after collecting 23 touches and eight marks in the club's qualifying final loss to Hawthorn, but was unable to force his way back into the line-up for the preliminary final

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm willing to chip in some money to help pay out his contract, anyone want to help me round up a collection?

Eagleton is 30 in Novemeber.

I'll chip in 20 cents. Might just save the club again.

[Dancin' Douggy]

To be honest, I don't think there is a place for Farren Ray in our best 22, we have many players of his type - and I don't think we've ever seen anything alarmingly good from him.

Happy for him to be traded while he has some currency. Happy to never seen him in our colours again. Bit of a Sammy Power thing - we were never going to get his best out of him when we already have so many other better midfielders.

I tend to agree. I think he has the potential to be a good player but I don't think he'll ever put on much weight. Murph, Gilbee and Hill are always going to be slight players and I think 3 "skinnys" is about enough in a team.
Big bodied midfielders are what we should be focusing on. Griffen, Cooney and Higgins are the prime build to be powerhouse midfielders. And if we want to mix it with the Cats and the Hawks that's what we're going to need. GRUNT.

As far as trades go, I think Collingwood is the team we should be sniffing around. Fazza tore them up in the '06 final and the pies have a few tall forwards to spare. Reid and Dawes may be gettable as Cloke, Anthony and Rusling seem to be shaping up as 3 long term tall forwards. The pies are also desperate for pace and zip in the midfield. Something Ray will give them in spades.
Hmmmmm..........

[FrediKanoute]

Its disappointing. I'm with TCD on this one that Faz's best will be seen over the 2nd 100 games he plays. Losing him now for Hall or draft picks doesn't help us get closer to winning a flag.

[BulldogBelle]

Good luck to Faz, sad to see him go. I always felt he just never seemed comfortable at the Kennel.

[bornadog]

Good luck to Faz, sad to see him go. I always felt he just never seemed cofortable at the Kennel.

Never felt comfortable because supporters never made him feel comfortable. Unfortunately we have a bunch of supporters who pick on one or two players each year and no matter what they achieve, they have a go at them.

West in his early days, but managed to shake it off
Power
Wight
Ray
Eagelton
Gia - no so much this year

You go to games and hear supporters bagging these players constantly and expecting them to all be Coonies week in week out.

[BulldogBelle]

You go to games and hear supporters bagging these players constantly and expecting them to all be Coonies week in week out.

Yes bornadog I agree, there are a few supporters that do that in my seating area at TD.

[aker39]

Yes bornadog I agree, there are a few supporters that do that in my seating area at TD.


I thought Mantis sat in the Superboxes

[bulldogtragic]

I saw two minutes of that show on channel 7 last night, the special with Aker for 'best of'. I only saw the best tackle segment and one was the North tackle on Farren 6 weeks ago at TD (lindsay Thomas i think).

Aker said he was 20 metres behind, with his hands around his mouth screaming 'kick it, kick it'. Then Aker said (obvoisuly) he didn't. His body language was very noticeable as he shrugged his soulders and threw his hands in the air as if to gesture "what can you do?".

My reading of the body language was that he didn't really seem to rate Faz. Seemed very frustrated with him...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Never felt comfortable because supporters never made him feel comfortable. Unfortunately we have a bunch of supporters who pick on one or two players each year and no matter what they achieve, they have a go at them.

West in his early days, but managed to shake it off
Power
Wight
Ray
Eagelton
Gia - no so much this year

You go to games and hear supporters bagging these players constantly and expecting them to all be Coonies week in week out.

Whilst I agree with you that some players are unfairly targeted, you cannot deny Farren Ray has been a disappointment and that it's no surprise he didn't play in our last two finals. Nobody can question his courage and his endurance, but his awareness, decision making and skills are awful and haven't improved even slightly since coming to the club. The key to a good player is gradual improvement - we don't expect 22 Adam Cooney's, but Ray really hasn't fired a shot albeit aside from that one game against Collingwood.

It'll be interesting to see what clubs chase him, and what they're willing to cough up. I suspect both St. Kilda and Collingwood would be interested, possibly Essendon.

[Rocket Science]

Its disappointing. I'm with TCD on this one that Faz's best will be seen over the 2nd 100 games he plays. Losing him now for Hall or draft picks doesn't help us get closer to winning a flag.

This has been mooted before but I've yet to hear the rationale behind it...

Despite his physical gifts, Farren's simply not a very intelligent footballer...I'd argue he's plateaued as a footballer and what we've seen to date is largely what we or anyone else will continue to get for the next 1, 2 or 5 years.

What's to suggest otherwise?...That he's continuing to develop?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Whilst I agree with you that some players are unfairly targeted, you cannot deny Farren Ray has been a disappointment and that it's no surprise he didn't play in our last two finals. Nobody can question his courage and his endurance, but his awareness, decision making and skills are awful and haven't improved even slightly since coming to the club. The key to a good player is gradual improvement - we don't expect 22 Adam Cooney's, but Ray really hasn't fired a shot albeit aside from that one game against Collingwood.

It'll be interesting to see what clubs chase him, and what they're willing to cough up. I suspect both St. Kilda and Collingwood would be interested, possibly Essendon.

I always supported and stood up for Farren. Told everyone he had the X factor. In fact he was always quite popular amongst my "Posse". But Sheesh, he's a true disappointment.
Drafted as a top 4 pick and really just treading water whereas Cooney's winning a Brownlow. I know you shouldn't compare the two but Ray was only 3 picks behind him in the draft. Also it should be remembered at all times. FARREN ASKED TO BE TRADED. The club isn't kicking him out.

[Dry Rot]

How old is Eagle?

I couldn't imagine any side trading for him, but it'd be worthwhile to exercise the possibility anyhow.



Wasn't Wallace a fan? What would we want/get for him?

[dog town]

I saw two minutes of that show on channel 7 last night, the special with Aker for 'best of'. I only saw the best tackle segment and one was the North tackle on Farren 6 weeks ago at TD (lindsay Thomas i think).

Aker said he was 20 metres behind, with his hands around his mouth screaming 'kick it, kick it'. Then Aker said (obvoisuly) he didn't. His body language was very noticeable as he shrugged his soulders and threw his hands in the air as if to gesture "what can you do?".

My reading of the body language was that he didn't really seem to rate Faz. Seemed very frustrated with him... He has some impressive strengths and some big weaknesses. One thing I will say is I reckon he has been run down from behind more times than any other player in the history of the game. He is very god at running with the footy, if he would just keep things a little simpler it would make him a far better player.

[GVGjr]

McMahon had a better season at the Tigers than he did with his last year with us and Power was a lot better at North than he was with us . Is there a trend here that we don't reinvent and better utilse some of these talented kids that we draft in the first round?
I'd hate to see Farren become a solid player elsewhere.

[bulldogtragic]

McMahon had a better season at the Tigers than he did with his last year with us and Power was a lot better at North than he was with us . Is there a trend here that we don't reinvent and better utilse some of these talented kids that we draft in the first round?
I'd hate to see Farren become a solid player elsewhere.
Fantastic point. I was the no. 1 Sam Power fan and thought a heap more than most. I knew he had the potential to improve his game. You ask a very serious question that deserves serious consideration by the powers that be...

[dog town]

McMahon had a better season at the Tigers than he did with his last year with us and Power was a lot better at North than he was with us . Is there a trend here that we don't reinvent and better utilse some of these talented kids that we draft in the first round?
I'd hate to see Farren become a solid player elsewhere. I think Mcmahon was essentially the same player. Power played to the same strengths but the Roos were able to slot him as an in and under midfielder. We could never do that with Cross, Boyd and West on our list. I dont think our player development has been great but in those cases I am not sure we could have done alot. Power has brilliant hands which makes him effective in close but was a long way down the pecking order with us. Mcmahon is still the same player but had slightly better numbers this year. Wallace pretty much gave him free reign.

[GVGjr]

I think Mcmahon was essentially the same player. Power played to the same strengths but the Roos were able to slot him as an in and under midfielder. We could never do that with Cross, Boyd and West on our list. I dont think our player development has been great but in those cases I am not sure we could have done alot. Power has brilliant hands which makes him effective in close but was a long way down the pecking order with us. Mcmahon is still the same player but had slightly better numbers this year. Wallace pretty much gave him free reign.

I seem to remember McMahon for making a number of decision making and skill making errors in his last season with us but he settled right down again with the Tigers. I was happy to see Power kick on.

It still begs the question if we are willing to reinvent players or prefer to just cut them loose. At the moment we seem to have fallen into the trap pf drafting them early, keeping them on the list for a number of years after waiting for them to physically develop only give them away for vastly less than what we have invested in them.

Ray had some success as a run with tagging player and yet we really didn't explore that option fully.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think Mcmahon was essentially the same player. Power played to the same strengths but the Roos were able to slot him as an in and under midfielder. We could never do that with Cross, Boyd and West on our list. I dont think our player development has been great but in those cases I am not sure we could have done alot. Power has brilliant hands which makes him effective in close but was a long way down the pecking order with us. Mcmahon is still the same player but had slightly better numbers this year. Wallace pretty much gave him free reign.

And he wasn't being overshadowed by Gilbee and Griffen running off half back. He also had a tall target (Richo) to kick to. Different team mates, different game plan etc etc.
Would you trade Callan Ward for Jordy right now?

[GVGjr]

Would you trade Callan Ward for Jordy right now?

You could also pose the question who would have played more games in 2008?

We lucked out with getting Ward but we also underachieved getting the best out of McMahon.

[dog town]

I seem to remember McMahon for making a number of decision making and skill making errors in his last season with us but he settled right down again with the Tigers. I was happy to see Power kick on.

It still begs the question if we are willing to reinvent players or prefer to just cut them loose. At the moment we seem to have fallen into the trap pf drafting them early, keeping them on the list for a number of years after waiting for them to physically develop only give them away for vastly less than what we have invested in them.

Ray had some success as a run with tagging player and yet we really didn't explore that option fully. I tend to agree that we dont do a great deal of experimenting with some of our players. Its not always best for the side to cater for players like that. Not sure the side really needed Ray in that run with role all that often. I do agree that we dont always give our players the best chance in certain positions. I thought Wight could have had a more extended run as a tall forward for example but as with Ray the side didn't really need it.

[Dancin' Douggy]

You could also pose the question who would have played more games in 2008?

We lucked out with getting Ward but we also underachieved getting the best out of McMahon.

What the?????????

[GVGjr]

Would you trade Callan Ward for Jordy right now?


You could also pose the question who would have played more games in 2008?

We lucked out with getting Ward but we also underachieved getting the best out of McMahon.


What the?????????

I suppose I need to be a bit more clear.

The point I was trying to make is that I wouldn't trade Callan Ward for McMahon but the more experienced McMahon would have made a bigger impact this year for us.

[Dancin' Douggy]

OK. But who would he have been the difference on Friday night against the Cats?

[wimberga]

So much potential.... Another wasted top 5 pick.
Angry at him or circumstances, i'm not too sure... That and we wont get too much for him after some very very average perormances over another poor season is ultra frustrating.

and Whos fault is that?

[Happy Days]

and Whos fault is that?

No matter how good he seemed, or the lack of effort Farren may or may not have put in to make his footy better, its the job of a recruiter not just to pick the best player at the time, but the best player 5 years down the track. Seeing as Farren had no serious injuries (prior to this year anyway), at least part of the blame for this fallout has got to be directed to Scott Clayton and the recruiting staff.

[hujsh]

I always supported and stood up for Farren. Told everyone he had the X factor. In fact he was always quite popular amongst my "Posse". But Sheesh, he's a true disappointment.
Drafted as a top 4 pick and really just treading water whereas Cooney's winning a Brownlow. I know you shouldn't compare the two but Ray was only 3 picks behind him in the draft. Also it should be remembered at all times. FARREN ASKED TO BE TRADED. The club isn't kicking him out.

It was a crap draft though.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It still begs the question if we are willing to reinvent players or prefer to just cut them loose.

At the moment we seem to have fallen into the trap pf drafting them early, keeping them on the list for a number of years after waiting for them to physically develop only give them away for vastly less than what we have invested in them.



This is a very real concern

Without doubt Ray is still an elite package athletically from which we should be able to create a good footballer.

I consider a real challenge to the coaching and development staff

We've invested a lot of time and effort into him and to just turn him into a second round pick IMO is very disappointing.

[GVGjr]

This is a very real concern

Without doubt Ray is still an elite package athletically from which we should be able to create a good footballer.

I consider a real challenge to the coaching and development staff

We've invested a lot of time and effort into him and to just turn him into a second round pick IMO is very disappointing.


The question I ask is why he couldn't have be tried to do the same role as say Tim Callan as a BP or once Griffen moved to the midfield why he couldn't have slotted in across half back. Ray is a good size, before this year his marking had improved and as you say he is very athletic. For the right team they will probably get a real bargain and use him more effectively. Yes he has some limitations but he is the type of player that could still do very well elsewhere.

[The Doctor]

I'm disappointed by the whole Ray saga. Another failed high draft pick.

I was actually against his drafting back in 2003 and stated so vehemently a number of times at the time.

Now as I look back this was about the time I started losing some faith in Clayton as a recruiter.

[western cookie]

Ray was an elite athlete, a great runner, fantastic engine, problem is he is better suited to an athletic track. His lack of early years football really showed out with his field kicking, probably our greatest asset on song and our biggest weakness when off (re geelong prelim). You can probably tell i wasnt a great fan and hopefully we can trade well for him.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

[QUOTE=The Doctor;58547

Now as I look back this was about the time I started losing some faith in Clayton as a recruiter.[/QUOTE]

Not sure it is all on the Recruiters or Coaches, If I was given an opportunity I would work my but off to make it work. Some examples of these would be Cross, Boyd, Morris & Lake. These guys would have the assets that Ray has but they have a ticker and that's what counts.

IMO Ray let himself down as he had the opportunity to play in the Grand final next year and has decided to walk away. I WOULD ASK WHY. Yes a few younger pups are snapping at his heals but a true competitor would stay and fend them off.

Good luck i think we would get more out of Ward playing 12-15 games next year.

Good Luck Collingwood. ;)

[bornadog]

Good Luck Collingwood. ;)

Do you know something we don't?:confused:

[LostDoggy]

I think the Ray option as a tagger wasn't the answer. He is behind Addison, Callan and Morris (if required) there. All are harder at it.
A trade should have gone ahead a few years back now, his value has decreased.

[Mantis]

I think the Ray option as a tagger wasn't the answer. He is behind Addison, Callan and Morris (if required) there. All are harder at it.
A trade should have gone ahead a few years back now, his value has decreased.

Why wasn't he allowed to play a free running role alas Eagleton? Sure he doesn't kick it as well as the Bald man, but is as good if not better runner, marks better, chases better and is a better tackler.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Good Luck Collingwood. ;)

That's the third time I've heard that this morning - all from different sources.

[LostDoggy]

Why wasn't he allowed to play a free running role alas Eagleton? Sure he doesn't kick it as well as the Bald man, but is as good if not better runner, marks better, chases better and is a better tackler.
Its not just his kicking thats bad, its his decision making, his instincts and awareness. Eagleton used to hit targets, not sure Ray could. With our lack of forward line height, missing targets often means an opposition goal.
He has been at the club long enough for all options to explored.

[Dry Rot]

Anyone have a theory why he has gone backwards in the last 2 seasons?

I know he broke his leg this year, but IIRC his 2007 wasn't too flash either.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone have a theory why he has gone backwards in the last 2 seasons?

I know he broke his leg this year, but IIRC his 2007 wasn't too flash either.

I don't think he went backwards, he just hasn't improved that much. He has a bigger body and more experience but still makes the same mistakes.

[Desipura]

That's the third time I've heard that this morning - all from different sources.
Lets say it is the pies, who realistically would we want from them and who would they be willing to give away? I think maybe a Rusling or their 2nd round pick might be considered.

[bulldogtragic]

Lets say it is the pies, who realistically would we want from them and who would they be willing to give away? I think maybe a Rusling or their 2nd round pick might be considered.
We would want Ben Reid.

Rusling has too many injries.

Their second rounder wouldn't be sufficient me thinks.

[Mofra]

Lets say it is the pies, who realistically would we want from them and who would they be willing to give away? I think maybe a Rusling or their 2nd round pick might be considered.
We'll ask for Reid and then be told where to go at a total guess. Might ask for picks to use in another trade, especially if we are chasing a tall.

Hoping we don't get Rusling: it's bad enough having just Williams chronically injured. We don't need to lose Ray just so Williams gets a rehab buddy who is unlikely to play.

[Desipura]

Ben Reid has more upside than Ray and is a kpp therefore his value is greater. Pies would not trade Reid for Ray.
The reason I thought of Rusling was due to his shoulder injuries, his value would have decreased somewhat.

[Mofra]

The reason I thought of Rusling was due to his shoulder injuries, his value would have decreased somewhat.
Rusling would be a gun if he was fit - super quick on the lead and a reasonable enough grab. Just not durable enough to play a full season at the highest level IMO.

[LostDoggy]

If we were to deal the with Pies the only player id want from their list would be Reid. Ray alone wont cut it.

Could Ray and our 3rd rounder get us over the line or will we have to sacrifice our 2nd rounder?

Id happily give them our 2nd rounder and Ray for Ried and their 3rd.

[LostDoggy]

Ray was an elite athlete, a great runner, fantastic engine, problem is he is better suited to an athletic track. His lack of early years football really showed out with his field kicking, probably our greatest asset on song and our biggest weakness when off (re geelong prelim). You can probably tell i wasnt a great fan and hopefully we can trade well for him.

About the size of it. Daniel Bandy was a great athlete too. I see Farren Birssing or Powelling around for a few years at another club, having some good games but not enough of them to make us regret letting him go. For his sake I hope life pans out better than that.

I love the Rusling talk. But so risky. And i think the Pies love him too.

[LostDoggy]

WCE have already spoken to Dogs, Freo will very shortly according to local rag.

[LostDoggy]

If we were to trade with Collingwood, I would like us to ask for Travis Cloke.
They are roughly the same age, same amount of games.
My thoughts are that need need a tested player, a performer. I do not think that Reid or Rusling has proved themself yet.
We might have to offer abit more, than just Ray I would have thought.
We can aim abit higher, we might get it.

[GVGjr]

If we were to trade with Collingwood, I would like us to ask for Travis Cloke.
They are roughly the same age, same amount of games.
My thoughts are that need need a tested player, a performer. I do not think that Reid or Rusling has proved themself yet.
We might have to offer abit more, than just Ray I would have thought.
We can aim abit higher, we might get it.

You could ask all you want but Travis Cloke is on the Pies untouchable list.

[Dogs 24/7]

Which Vic teams would be after midfield pace ? Melbourne, Collingwood and the Saints spring to mind. So with that in mind it will probably be a direct swap with the Tigers for Adam Pattison :p

[Mofra]

If we were to trade with Collingwood, I would like us to ask for Travis Cloke.
They are roughly the same age, same amount of games.
My thoughts are that need need a tested player, a performer. I do not think that Reid or Rusling has proved themself yet.
We might have to offer abit more, than just Ray I would have thought.
We can aim abit higher, we might get it.
Collingwood would want Ray, 2 first round draft picks and a nice bottle of chardonnay for Cloke. Wont happen

[Scraggers]

WCE have already spoken to Dogs, Freo will very shortly according to local rag.

How about Ashley Hanson and their second round pick for Farren Ray and our third rounder ???

[BulldogBelle]

Hansen seems a bit brittle for mine.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If we were to trade with Collingwood, I would like us to ask for Travis Cloke. They are roughly the same age, same amount of games.
My thoughts are that need need a tested player, a performer. I do not think that Reid or Rusling has proved themself yet.
We might have to offer abit more, than just Ray I would have thought.
We can aim abit higher, we might get it.

So where do you propose we find the 2 high first round picks required to make Collingwood consider offering up their main key forward? Or alternatively find 1 high 1st round pick and someone of the ilk of Adam Cooney or Ryan Griffen.

Ray and Cloke might be similar in age and experience but they are continents apart in terms of currency.

[Scorlibo]

How about Ashley Hanson and their second round pick for Farren Ray and our third rounder ???

I would be quite happy with this. Hansen is a good talent, maybe more lead-up than crash packs forward, but maybe he is the best we can do. Reminding me a lot of Doogs here tough.

[Scraggers]

I would be quite happy with this. Hansen is a good talent, maybe more lead-up than crash packs forward, but maybe he is the best we can do. Reminding me a lot of Doogs here tough.

I rate Hansen well above Doogs ... and the best part of this trade would be the two second round picks we could end up with if we trade our third pick for their second pick

[Scorlibo]

Hansen statistically.

Age: 25
Games: 67
Goals: 81
Height: 198cm
Weight: 95kg
Premierships: 1
Best Season: 2007, 14 matches for averages of 12.6 disposals, 84.7% Disp Eff, 6.9 marks, 0.8 contested marks, 1.57 goals.
Best Game: Round 2 2005, 20 disposals, 11 marks, 4 goals.
Positives: Proven player in a quality team, takes lots of marks.
Negatives: At 25 he is yet to have a great season, injury prone, doesn't kick big bags of goals.

All in all, he is certainly worth a punt, especially, as you said Scraggers, if we can get their second rounder - effectively a two round upgrade for difference in ladder position.

[The Pie Man]

Hansen statistically.

Age: 25
Games: 67
Goals: 81
Height: 198cm
Weight: 95kg
Premierships: 1
Best Season: 2007, 14 matches for averages of 12.6 disposals, 84.7% Disp Eff, 6.9 marks, 0.8 contested marks, 1.57 goals.
Best Game: Round 2 2005, 20 disposals, 11 marks, 4 goals.
Positives: Proven player in a quality team, takes lots of marks.
Negatives: At 25 he is yet to have a great season, injury prone, doesn't kick big bags of goals.

All in all, he is certainly worth a punt, especially, as you said Scraggers, if we can get their second rounder - effectively a two round upgrade for difference in ladder position.

Really?? I wouldn't have thought he was that tall.

Would take him as part of a trade for Ray, I do rate him - though he's not specifically what we need - Murphy is already the lead up outside 50 half forward, he needs a Barry Hall type to target when he plays on and wheels onto his left (he kicks those like he has a big forward down there already)

[MrMahatma]

Hansen statistically.

Age: 25
Games: 67
Goals: 81
Height: 198cm
Weight: 95kg
Premierships: 1
Best Season: 2007, 14 matches for averages of 12.6 disposals, 84.7% Disp Eff, 6.9 marks, 0.8 contested marks, 1.57 goals.
Best Game: Round 2 2005, 20 disposals, 11 marks, 4 goals.
Positives: Proven player in a quality team, takes lots of marks.
Negatives: At 25 he is yet to have a great season, injury prone, doesn't kick big bags of goals.

All in all, he is certainly worth a punt, especially, as you said Scraggers, if we can get their second rounder - effectively a two round upgrade for difference in ladder position.
Waste of time going for a guy averaging 1 1/2 goals a game.

We need a forward who could drag down big marks and kick bags when we need it.

[GVGjr]

Waste of time going for a guy averaging 1 1/2 goals a game.

We need a forward who could drag down big marks and kick bags when we need it.

I don't think he would be a waste of time because when he is switched on he is a very good player. The injuries are the only concern I have with Hansen.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We need a forward who could drag down big marks and kick bags when we need it.

Maybe we can get 2 or 3.

[bornadog]

I don't think he would be a waste of time because when he is switched on he is a very good player. The injuries are the only concern I have with Hansen.

I agree, when he is going he is very good. Its the injuries that have been a concern. At 25 years of age he should start to peak now as a big man.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How about this as a hypothetical?


O'Keefe wants to come home so the Swans trade him to Richmond for pick 8 plus change.

Sydney on-trade pick 8 plus pick 12 to WC for Kerr.

West Coast now have picks 2, 8, 12, 18, 20 and 36.

We trade Ray for Hanson and because they have no intention of using 6 picks in the draft (and because we basically upgraded their pick 30 to pick 22 for nothing last year, allowing them to draft Scott Selwood) they throw in pick 36 as a sweetener.

We ontrade pick 36 to Freo for Campbell and we get a leadup CHF and a FF for Ray.

Easy!

[bulldogtragic]

How about this as a hypothetical?


O'Keefe wants to come home so the Swans trade him to Richmond for pick 8 plus change.

Sydney on-trade pick 8 plus pick 12 to WC for Kerr.

West Coast now have picks 2, 8, 12, 18, 20 and 36.

We trade Ray for Hanson and because they have no intention of using 6 picks in the draft (and because we basically upgraded their pick 30 to pick 22 for nothing last year, allowing them to draft Scott Selwood) they throw in pick 36 as a sweetener.

We ontrade pick 36 to Freo for Campbell and we get a leadup CHF and a FF for Ray.

Easy!
We could only be so lucky...

[LostDoggy]

How about this as a hypothetical?


O'Keefe wants to come home so the Swans trade him to Richmond for pick 8 plus change.

Sydney on-trade pick 8 plus pick 12 to WC for Kerr.

West Coast now have picks 2, 8, 12, 18, 20 and 36.

We trade Ray for Hanson and because they have no intention of using 6 picks in the draft (and because we basically upgraded their pick 30 to pick 22 for nothing last year, allowing them to draft Scott Selwood) they throw in pick 36 as a sweetener.

We ontrade pick 36 to Freo for Campbell and we get a leadup CHF and a FF for Ray.

Easy!

We are getting ripped.

Ray for Hansen + pick 36 is ok. Not the best but ok.

But the last bit is outragous and Freo would be licking their lips. Id rather invest 3 years in developing a tall forward than getting Campbell judging by what Freo supporters have been saying.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How about this as a hypothetical?


O'Keefe wants to come home so the Swans trade him to Richmond for pick 8 plus change.

Sydney on-trade pick 8 plus pick 12 to WC for Kerr.

West Coast now have picks 2, 8, 12, 18, 20 and 36.

We trade Ray for Hanson and because they have no intention of using 6 picks in the draft (and because we basically upgraded their pick 30 to pick 22 for nothing last year, allowing them to draft Scott Selwood) they throw in pick 36 as a sweetener.

We ontrade pick 36 to Freo for Campbell and we get a leadup CHF and a FF for Ray.

Easy!

1st piece of the puzzle falls into place.