Please explain....

[LostDoggy]

...how Geelong lost that GF and the Hawks won?
I suppose I'm a bit jealous as Hawthorn were in a similar position to us a few years back.
I don't rate Hawthorn or maybe more some of the players at Hawthorn.
Dew is way overweight, I don't rate Guerra and Bateman. Young, Birchall, Ladson, Ellis, Gilham all young and skinny. Their rucks are nothing to write home about either.

I know Geelong kicked themselves out of it but man for man Geelong is better and if played 100 times I believe Geelong would win it 99 times.

[LostDoggy]

Geelong's second quarter was like what we did two weeks ago.
wasted chances

[LostDoggy]

Hawthorn went harder at the ball, and took there chances. Maybe Geelong went in a bit confident, but it jsut goes to show you should never get to far ahead of yourselves.

They could play it 100 times and Geelong may winn 99 of them, but they won yesterday in the 1 game that mattered all year.

I dont blame you if your jealous, i know i am, cause we had Geelong last week, but didnt take our chances. We should have been at the G yesterday, but we wernt, lifes goes on i suppose, it will make us a lot better next year, and hopefully go two steps further.

Well done to the Hawks, especially one of my fav players in the afl Shane Crawford.

[The Doctor]

I think Aker was right. Geelong got too ahead of themselves.

They lairised a bit and took it too easy with some of their efforts. The Ottens miss really sums this up. Once things started to go pear shaped they panicked. THey lost it more than Hawks won it but good luck to the Hawks. They took their chances. Thats footy.

[cinder]

Was it just me that noticed Geelong's final score was 89?
Dan dan dan dan daaaaaaaaan!!!

[LostDoggy]

I dont blame you if your jealous, i know i am, cause we had Geelong last week, but didnt take our chances.
I'm more upset and still upset about our finals loss to the Hawks than the Geelong.
We didn't play anywhere near our potential whereas the Geelong match we somewhat over achieved.
I still think are better than Hawthorn and that upsets me.

[Dry Rot]

...how Geelong lost that GF and the Hawks won?
I suppose I'm a bit jealous as Hawthorn were in a similar position to us a few years back.
I don't rate Hawthorn or maybe more some of the players at Hawthorn.
Dew is way overweight, I don't rate Guerra and Bateman. Young, Birchall, Ladson, Ellis, Gilham all young and skinny. Their rucks are nothing to write home about either.

I know Geelong kicked themselves out of it but man for man Geelong is better and if played 100 times I believe Geelong would win it 99 times.


Do the Cats have a Plan B in the event that the Hawks can actually close down their free running game? http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=58574#post58574

No Plan B.

Bad kicking didn't lose the game for 4 quarters, their game plan is fine during the year against most other teams, but three teams showed that handball/play on at all costs style/gameplan doesn't stand up to finals type pressure.

The Hawks and the Pies showed this, and I'd argue that we did too for substantial parts of our 2 games against them.

[bulldogtragic]

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=58574#post58574

No Plan B.

Bad kicking didn't lose the game for 4 quarters, their game plan is fine during the year against most other teams, but three teams showed that handball/play on at all costs style/gameplan doesn't stand up to finals type pressure.

The Hawks and the Pies showed this, and I'd argue that we did too for substantial parts of our 2 games against them.
If we took our opportunities like the Hawks did. I honestly believe i would not be posting right now, that i would still be drinking at The Whitten Oval. I was at the game yesterday, and watching it live, i was thinking god this really could have been us.

Incentive for the pre-season at least.

[bulldogtragic]

If we took our opportunities like the Hawks did. I honestly believe i would not be posting right now, that i would still be drinking at The Whitten Oval. I was at the game yesterday, and watching it live, i was thinking god this really could have been us.

Incentive for the pre-season at least.
If we took our opportunities like the Hawks did. I honestly believe i would not be posting right now, that i would still be drinking at The Whitten Oval. I was at the game yesterday, and watching it live, i was thinking god this really could have been us.

Incentive for the pre-season at least.

[LostDoggy]

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=58574#post58574

No Plan B.

Bad kicking didn't lose the game for 4 quarters, their game plan is fine during the year against most other teams, but three teams showed that handball/play on at all costs style/gameplan doesn't stand up to finals type pressure.

The Hawks and the Pies showed this, and I'd argue that we did too for substantial parts of our 2 games against them.

I disagree.
Their plan A wins 99 out of 100.
Bad kicking for goal/scoreboard pressue cost them the game more than anything. Some of the shots missed by Mooney and Ottens were unforgivable. They choked and lost it more than the Hawks won it.
There was little wrong with their handball or play on at all cost style yesterday. Not having a winning and reliable forward, for 2 weeks now.

[bulldogtragic]

I disagree.
Their plan A wins 99 out of 100.
Bad kicking for goal/scoreboard pressue cost them the game more than anything. Some of the shots missed by Mooney and Ottens were unforgivable. They choked and lost it more than the Hawks won it.
There was little wrong with their handball or play on at all cost style yesterday. Not having a winning and reliable forward, for 2 weeks now.
I will second that Ernie. The stats will back you up to.
Hawks presure was exceptional, but Geelong won all the major stats except goals. If Ottens handballs to Lonergan on his own, Mooney kicks it and Stokes goals, Cats go in 18 points up with a run on.

I think they lost it, an old fashioned Greg Norman choke. All credit goes to the Hawks for taking their opportunities, but Geelong will be siething at themselves that for sure.

[Dry Rot]

I disagree.

There was little wrong with their handball or play on at all cost style yesterday.

Disagree for all 4 quarters.

They continued to play on, whatever the situation and while they often got the ball back precious time was lost and the Hawks defence was waiting for them. They also kept on going through a congested corriedor, unlike the Hawks.

Funny enough, at times they should have slowed the game down a la tempo footy.

[Dry Rot]

I will second that Ernie. The stats will back you up to.
Hawks presure was exceptional, but Geelong won all the major stats except goals. If Ottens handballs to Lonergan on his own, Mooney kicks it and Stokes goals, Cats go in 18 points up with a run on.

I think they lost it, an old fashioned Greg Norman choke. All credit goes to the Hawks for taking their opportunities, but Geelong will be siething at themselves that for sure.

Most of their inside 50s were rubbish - pressured up field, they just bombed it in like we do we when play dumb under pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

Most of their inside 50s were rubbish - pressured up field, they just bombed it in like we do we when play dumb under pressure.
DR,

I agree their pressure was great.

I formly believe if Ottens handballs, Stokes and Mooney convert and Geelong goes in 3 or maybe more goals up at half time, thats it. Clarkson was on the footy show this morning saying the Hawks were haemorging (spelling bad) and he went into the rooms fuming at half time leaving for thr rooms before Mooney kicked. Only to be told Mooney missed, and he changed his address from angry to hey guys we're in front and its time to believe.

Geelong choked at the key momens, doing things that Geelong just dont do. The game could have been set up for a solid win, but they didn't take their chances.

Hawthorn then took their chances in the 3rd and 4th. Something we should have done the week before.

[LostDoggy]

Disagree for all 4 quarters.

They continued to play on, whatever the situation and while they often got the ball back precious time was lost and the Hawks defence was waiting for them. They also kept on going through a congested corriedor, unlike the Hawks.

Funny enough, at times they should have slowed the game down a la tempo footy.
That same style won them the premiership last year.
Nothing wrong with the plan yesterday either, their final execution(shots at goal) let them down.

[KT31]

It just goes to show, Anybody can really win on the day.

What really peeves me it now makes Hawthorn the first team to win a flag in each decade I have been alive.
While the Dogs have not managed to play in a flag for five decades (and we lost that to Hawthorn)

Cut the excuses Dogs and make the tough dessisions and Win a bloody Flag !

[mjp]

...how Geelong lost that GF and the Hawks won?
I suppose I'm a bit jealous as Hawthorn were in a similar position to us a few years back.
I don't rate Hawthorn or maybe more some of the players at Hawthorn.
Dew is way overweight, I don't rate Guerra and Bateman. Young, Birchall, Ladson, Ellis, Gilham all young and skinny. Their rucks are nothing to write home about either.

I know Geelong kicked themselves out of it but man for man Geelong is better and if played 100 times I believe Geelong would win it 99 times.

Because Hawthorn came prepared to play and Geelong came prepared to win. When things weren't going the Hawks way early, they didn't panic - they stuck to their plans (a bad plan is better than no plan) and took advantage of Geelongs mistakes. When the tide turned - as it always does - Geelong started to guess a bit. Further, with Harley off and Scarlett rendered impotent by having to play on Franklin, they really lacked rebound from half-back, with two ordinary decision makers (Hunt and Mackie) and past his prime half-back (Milburn) being forced to pick up the slack...they couldn't, and we started to see pressure generated turnovers by Geelong.

I thought Hawthorn were the ones who kept their nerve - it must have been tempting to move Hodge forward and Lewis into the middle with Mitchell struggling so much early and Bateman clearly injured - but they didn't, they put the weight on their lesser lights and came through...

Like your Hawthorn list ES, Geelong have some very ordinary players in their line-up - add Rooke, Stokes, Lonergan and Taylor to those mentioned earlier - and it doesn't matter how many stoppages Corey, Ablett and Selwood win, if the support isn't there....

[MrMahatma]

The Hawks are a good team. I thought they could win. I agree that the Cats are a better team though, but it showed one thing today...

...the better forward line beat the better midfield...

interesting.

[Topdog]

The Hawks are a good team. I thought they could win. I agree that the Cats are a better team though, but it showed one thing today...

...the better forward line beat the better midfield...

interesting.

Did it really? The Hawks forward line scored 5 or 6 goals for the match.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Although the missed opportunities killed Geelong, IMO a few of them became a little too relaxed in the way they were playing. Johnson kept trying to create something from nothing with his kicks - it wasn't working. Ablett did the same a couple of times. The creative passes simply weren't there, Hawthorn cut off their space and played man on man football. They basically carried out the same game plan we had, separating their defenders, but their execution was much better than ours and thus they won the game.

Young was impressive, as was Rioli - both really gave Hawthorn a lot as did Dew for that 5-10 minute spell.

Geelong were foolish playing Stoakes, Varcoe AND Chapman. The reality is that either Varcoe or Stoakes had to be dropped. Wojcinski would have been far better running through the midfield or giving them drive off half back with his pace. Must say, odd move by Geelong.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think we're reading more into than there is.

Geelong simply missed shots they would normally kick in their sleep.

[Mantis]

You don't win matches when the Inside 50's count is 43-62, well you shouldn't.

Geelong should have been 4 or 5 goals in front at half time. They weren't and after Hawthorn played well for 5 minutes in the 3rd qtr the game was over.

Just hope when we make the GF our's is as easy to win.

[gohardorgohome]

...how Geelong lost that GF and the Hawks won?
I suppose I'm a bit jealous as Hawthorn were in a similar position to us a few years back.
I don't rate Hawthorn or maybe more some of the players at Hawthorn.
Dew is way overweight, I don't rate Guerra and Bateman. Young, Birchall, Ladson, Ellis, Gilham all young and skinny. Their rucks are nothing to write home about either.

I know Geelong kicked themselves out of it but man for man Geelong is better and if played 100 times I believe Geelong would win it 99 times.

Just shows how important it is to be a Footballer first and an athelete next. I dont want to sound overly disparaging but Farren Ray was great at the beep tests, but struggled with the kicking. Also funny to hear on SEN this morning that one club downrated Cyril Rioli after his interview at the draft camp.

I feel that we dont have a leader at the club like Luke Hodge or Michael Voss.

Maybe they could skip a generation and appoint Higgins to the leadership group to take over from Johnno if he has an injury free year next year.

[bornadog]

Maybe they could skip a generation and appoint Higgins to the leadership group to take over from Johnno if he has an injury free year next year.

That is a big call, and it won't happen.

We have guys like Cross, Gia, Murphy all waiting in the wings to be Captain. Cooney and Griffo are probably next in line, way before a Higgins.

[Happy Days]

I think we're reading more into than there is.

Geelong simply missed shots they would normally kick in their sleep.

Geelong lost the game, Hawthorn didn't win it.

But it wasn't because they missed their shots, it was because they played selfish, and at some junctions, undiciplined footy. Sure, Ottens should have kicked that goal, but he didn't, and he did have Lonergan open in the square for the handball. And he wasn't alone in that department...Stevie J (particularly surprising given the great emphasis he put on goal asists this year), Stokes et al. all had moments where a handball over the top or something of that nature was on, but they went themselves and it didnt pay off.

It is correct to say that Geelong should have won, but its a cop-out to say they simply just "missed their shots".

[bornadog]

Amazing thing about the GF was that none of the big forwards for both sides did anything, although Mooney was disgraceful with the shots he missed. Buddy, Roughead, did nothing, Lonegran proved he is a dud.

The other observation is that Scarlett was stuck with following Buddy around, Harley was injured, so the backline had no drive and attack, which is the usual way Geelong mount most of their scoring shots. I think they should have had Wojinski in the team, he would have been better than Stokes and given them something out of the backline.

[bulldogsman]

Amazing thing about the GF was that none of the big forwards for both sides did anything, although Mooney was disgraceful with the shots he missed. Buddy, Roughead, did nothing, Lonegran proved he is a dud.

The other observation is that Scarlett was stuck with following Buddy around, Harley was injured, so the backline had no drive and attack, which is the usual way Geelong mount most of their scoring shots. I think they should have had Wojinski in the team, he would have been better than Stokes and given them something out of the backline.

I agree except Stokes deserved to be in the side. What was Varcoe doing in there? He had one good game for the year. Hawkins and Lonergan will be swapped over next year as well

Harley i thought was a bit of a girl, he looked fine walking back at half time.

[MrMahatma]

Amazing thing about the GF was that none of the big forwards for both sides did anything, although Mooney was disgraceful with the shots he missed. Buddy, Roughead, did nothing, Lonegran proved he is a dud.

The other observation is that Scarlett was stuck with following Buddy around, Harley was injured, so the backline had no drive and attack, which is the usual way Geelong mount most of their scoring shots. I think they should have had Wojinski in the team, he would have been better than Stokes and given them something out of the backline.
Prob harsh on Buddy to be honest. Take him out of the game and Scarlett gets 30 touches and sets up a handful of goals, and buddy kicked 2 and set another one or two up himself. (also should've had another shot if it weren't for the poor umpiring).

He may not have kicked 6 goals, but he was a pretty important player in the context of the game IMO.

Roughead played the majority of the game down back after Croad broke his foot (how good was his bump though when walking off with a broken foot! Love that!)

[LostDoggy]

How did not one Hawthorn player get suspended?
Croad was dirty and so was Mitchell more than once.
Its just BS.

[Sockeye Salmon]

How did not one Hawthorn players get suspended?
Croad was dirty and was Mitchell more than once.
Its just BS.

You have to assasinate someone to get suspended in a grand final.

All the media is about the winners and the AFL sits quietly in the corner hoping everyone forgets about the MRP.

By contrast, in the prelim every journo in the country is trying to beat up a story about nothing so any little love tap is going to make front page news - only if you win of course, if you lose no-one cares.

[LostDoggy]

Croad knew his game was finished, so he does his part for the win. Hawthorn did their best to try to knock out Ablett, there was a flying elbow that just missed too (which should be reportable).
The AFL said a few years back they would go harsh on GF thuggery!
Not a word one mentioned by anyone!

Rohan Connolly's crapping on about changing the rushed behind law when they can't see there is a sending off rule that should be thought about first or any consistency at the tribunal.

Geelong stuffed up alright, they didn't go the knuckle first.

[Mantis]

Croad knew his game was finished, so he does his part for the win. Hawthorn did their best to try to knock out Ablett, there was a flying elbow that just missed too (which should be reportable).
The AFL said a few years back they would go harsh on GF thuggery!
Not a word one mentioned by anyone!

Rohan Connolly's crapping on about changing the rushed behind law when they can't see there is a sending off rule that should be thought about first or any consistency at the tribunal.

Geelong stuffed up alright, they didn't go the knuckle first.

By bumping Selwood, oh the horror.:eek:

Mitchell should have gotten 4 weeks for his head high bump on Ablett, but apart from that I can't recall an incident worthy of a visit to the tribunal.

[LostDoggy]

I see you are true to form lately and try to pick on any little thing.


By bumping Selwood, oh the horror.:eek:
Bumping in the head, which a week back was sacrosanct.


Mitchell should have gotten 4 weeks for his head high bump on Ablett, but apart from that I can't recall an incident worthy of a visit to the tribunal.
Mitchell got Ablett more than once. Mitchell was also close with his flying elbow to Mackie.

[Mantis]

I see you are true to form lately and try to pick on any little thing.

How is that so? I am simply responding to your post, read into it whatever you want.


Bumping in the head, which a week back was sacrosanct.

It was a bump in the side.


Mitchell got Ablett more than once. Mitchell was also close with his flying elbow to Mackie.

Mitchell got Ablett with a coathanger which was non-malicious. It was a free kick (which was paid), that's all. The bump to the head when he came off the line was dangerous and worthy of a charge.

[gohardorgohome]

That is a big call, and it won't happen.

We have guys like Cross, Gia, Murphy all waiting in the wings to be Captain. Cooney and Griffo are probably next in line, way before a Higgins.



I just get the impression that Higgins would be a better bet than the guys you have mentioned. The only one I would think would make a good captain would be Cross. I think a hard nut Captain leading by example is the way to go. Higgins has had a terrible run with injuries, but I have heard him on the radio a few times and he is very impressive for a young guy. He is also hard at it.

Maybe we can try and get Luke Hodge (My favourite player in the AFL);)

[LostDoggy]

How is that so? I am simply responding to your post, read into it whatever you want.
No need to read into. Its obvious your posting mood has been great lately.


It was a bump in the side.
With Selwood's head down. At least a free last week.


Mitchell got Ablett with a coathanger which was non-malicious.
A great way to describe it, a 'non-malicious' coathanger. Again malicious or not it was reportable last week. For a guy 93 points, worth at least 7 more.


It was a free kick (which was paid), that's all. The bump to the head when he came off the line was dangerous and worthy of a charge.
MRP says apparently Ling pushed him! Why wasn't the free to Mitchell then?

This article shows he likes his flying elbows too.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/hawks-warned-to-curb-aggression/2008/09/02/1220121235276.html

[Mantis]

No need to read into. Its obvious your posting mood has been great lately.

Thanks, I thought it's been pretty good too.


A great way to describe it, a 'non-malicious' coathanger. Again malicious or not it was reportable last week. For a guy 93 points, worth at least 7 more.

It wasn't a swinging arm, just a high tackle. Worth a free kick, that's all.


MRP says apparently Ling pushed him! Why wasn't the free to Mitchell then?


I'm not sure, one of life's great mysteries I suppose.

[craigsahibee]

...how Geelong lost that GF and the Hawks won?
I suppose I'm a bit jealous as Hawthorn were in a similar position to us a few years back.
I don't rate Hawthorn or maybe more some of the players at Hawthorn.
Dew is way overweight, I don't rate Guerra and Bateman. Young, Birchall, Ladson, Ellis, Gilham all young and skinny. Their rucks are nothing to write home about either.

I know Geelong kicked themselves out of it but man for man Geelong is better and if played 100 times I believe Geelong would win it 99 times.

Where is the justice.

Forever more players like Guerra, Ladson, Osborne, Bateman and co will be referred to as premiership players. Stuart Dew a dual premieship player. If there is a god, he/she has a lot of explaining to do.

[Stefcep]

..

Like your Hawthorn list ES, Geelong have some very ordinary players in their line-up - add Rooke, Stokes, Lonergan and Taylor to those mentioned earlier - and it doesn't matter how many stoppages Corey, Ablett and Selwood win, if the support isn't there....


I've always been of the opinion that the Cats are a team of mainly ordinary players that have been able to gell exceptionally well.

Other than Ablett and Bartell there is no other player on that list that is better than "just average". Yeah and I include Steve Johnstone in this: BOG when the team wins by 120 points, but ineffective when the chips are down and in big games, including the prelim against us Sure in the GF he got 30+ possessions but other than the 50 metre gift NONE resulted in a scoring opportunity. And thats what hes there for..

Mooney, Rooke, Chapman, Ottens, Milburn, Scarlett, as Jack Dyer would say are just good ordinary players that were exposed as such when under pressure first by us in the prelim and then the Hawks.

[Happy Days]

Mooney, Rooke, Chapman, Ottens, Milburn, Scarlett, as Jack Dyer would say are just good ordinary players that were exposed as such when under pressure first by us in the prelim and then the Hawks.

Oh he was really exposed...Buddy really lit him up didn't he?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Chapman ain't a half bad player when at full flight, either.

I agree though that they have 5 or 6 good ordinary players that have managed to coast along with Geelong's success. Be interesting to see how they all perform next season, hopefully for our chances, not as well.

[LostDoggy]

Mooney, Rooke, Chapman, Ottens, Milburn, Scarlett, as Jack Dyer would say are just good ordinary players that were exposed as such when under pressure first by us in the prelim and then the Hawks.

Thats a load of crap. I would love some of those in our side and so would Hawthorn.

[mjp]

Milburn was better 5 years ago. Still better than Guerra, not better than Gilbee.
Scarlett, Ottens and Chapman are super players. All would play at Hawthorn (and us!)
Mooney is just a guy. Not sure he would add much to Hawthorn, but he would help us.
Rooke? Meh. Turns it over by foot far too often. In the side for one reason and it certainly didn't help them on Grand final day...his moment in the sun a week earlier the AFL have admitted was an umpiring blunder.

[LostDoggy]

Add a fit Egan at CHB and Hawkins at FF. I still think Geelong will be top 2 contenders next year.

[The Coon Dog]

Add a fit Egan at CHB and Hawkins at FF. I still think Geelong will be top 2 contenders next year.
Hard to see them dropping off, but I'm not so sure they will win 21/22.

[BulldogBelle]

Add a fit Egan at CHB and Hawkins at FF. I still think Geelong will be top 2 contenders next year.

Yes, they will definitely be up there and will be hell bent on trying to atone after losing the Grand Final.

[Stefcep]

Oh he was really exposed...Buddy really lit him up didn't he?

on another day with another umpire Buddy could have had 3 or 4 frees against Scarlett inside 50. NB All FF's are hugely dependent on the midfield supply, and on this day the delivery to Buddy wasn't what it could have been. Scarlett doesn't get the credit for that

[Stefcep]

Thats a load of crap. I would love some of those in our side and so would Hawthorn.
Who? And more relevant who would you move out to make room? Milburn for Morris or Gilbee? Scarlet for Lake? Maybe not much really gained. S Johnson for Murph or Aker or Brad johnson? Chapman for Murph or Brad Johnson or Gia? Rooke for ??? Mooney for B Johnson?

[Stefcep]

Hard to see them dropping off, but I'm not so sure they will win 21/22.
Teams have a 3 year window to win premierships. Next year will be Geelong's toughest of the three. They would have peaked this year.

[Happy Days]

Who? And more relevant who would you move out to make room? Milburn for Morris or Gilbee? Scarlet for Lake? Maybe not much really gained. S Johnson for Murph or Aker or Brad johnson? Chapman for Murph or Brad Johnson or Gia? Rooke for ??? Mooney for B Johnson?

Here's the team (as lined up) for the game against Geelong:

FB:Morris Lake Callan
HB:Hargrave Tiller Gilbee
C:Giansiricusa Boyd Cross
HF:Murphy Hahn Johnson
FF:Higgins Welsh Akermanis
Foll:Hudson Cooney Griffen
I/C:Eagleton Harbrow Hill Minson

Here it would be with the players you mentioned:

FB:Morris Lake Milburn
HB:Hargrave Scarlett Gilbee
C:Giansiricusa Boyd Cross
HF:Murphy Hahn S. Johnson
FF:B. Johnson Mooney Chapman
Foll:Hudson Cooney Griffen
I/C:Rooke Harbrow Akermanis Minson

Are you trying to say team two isn't much much better to team one? No disrespect to our boys, but don't be stupid.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Teams have a 3 year window to win premierships. Next year will be Geelong's toughest of the three. They would have peaked this year.

Geelong still have scope for improvement, though. I doubt they'll drop off. If Egan is able to make a full recovery, he's going to add quite a lot to their side again. Hawkins might still be another few seasons away, but there's no doubt he'll be contributing more - especially after their GF loss.

IMO Geelong still have another two years minimum - so long as their list stays relatively the same, with only a few retirements (Milburn) in the near future. Their core still has plenty to give. Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Johnson, Chapman, Scarlett, Egan, Ottens & a few other handy types will still be around for a few years yet. I suppose it depends on whether Milburn, Harley, Enright & Mooney can keep delivering and whether Varcoe, Taylor, Hawkins & Stoakes can keep improving.

It'll be interesting.

[Stefcep]

You're playing some of the Geelong players out of position to get them in the team and you've omitted Tiller and Callan who are just starting out. Thats comparing apples versus oranges

Scarlett at CHB? He wouldn't know what to do there. The question is: Scarlett or Lake at FB?

Milburn in the BP? He's a half back. Instead of Gilbee? NOOOO

S Johnson Or Brad Johnson (or Acker or Murph) on a HFF?

Chapman plays more as a HFF no FP. Ahead of Acker? NOOOO.

So Rooke gets in on the bench. Big deal.

What about Mooney? Ahead of B Johnson? NOOOO

What this exercise shows is that a part from a tall leading forward and maybe CHB (Williams if he ever gets fit or Tiller or White in a season or two) we match up man-for-man very very well against Geelong

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You're playing some of the Geelong players out of position to get them in the team and you've omitted Tiller and Callan who are just starting out. Thats comparing apples versus oranges

Scarlett at CHB? He wouldn't know what to do there. The question is: Scarlett or Lake at FB?

Milburn in the BP? He's a half back. Instead of Gilbee? NOOOO

S Johnson Or Brad Johnson (or Acker or Murph) on a HFF?

Chapman plays more as a HFF no FP. Ahead of Acker? NOOOO.

So Rooke gets in on the bench. Big deal.

What about Mooney? Ahead of B Johnson? NOOOO

What this exercise shows is that a part from a tall leading forward and maybe CHB (Williams if he ever gets fit or Tiller or White in a season or two) we match up man-for-man very very well against Geelong

You're taking a very, very simplistic approach.

Johnson, Chapman, Scarlett & Mooney would ALL be certainties in our 22. Milburn & Rooke can be made a case for, but there's no disputing the first four.

[Stefcep]

Geelong still have scope for improvement, though. I doubt they'll drop off. If Egan is able to make a full recovery, he's going to add quite a lot to their side again. Hawkins might still be another few seasons away, but there's no doubt he'll be contributing more - especially after their GF loss.

IMO Geelong still have another two years minimum - so long as their list stays relatively the same, with only a few retirements (Milburn) in the near future. Their core still has plenty to give. Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Johnson, Chapman, Scarlett, Egan, Ottens & a few other handy types will still be around for a few years yet. I suppose it depends on whether Milburn, Harley, Enright & Mooney can keep delivering and whether Varcoe, Taylor, Hawkins & Stoakes can keep improving.

It'll be interesting.

The best team I have ever seen is Brisbane Lions and they did 3 premierships in a row-and no more. To do it whern it matters: like Tiger does it in golf, like Federer, like Lendl hitting a top spin lob on the baseline over Cash's head on matchpoint is what makes a true champion. GYes Geelong will be top 3 next year and top 4 after that but they have peaked. The signs were there against us in the prelim and confirmed in the GF: pressure them and they're 75% of the team they are when they are confident and in front.

[Dry Rot]

Chapman plays more as a HFF no FP. Ahead of Acker? NOOOO.



You've got to be joking vs 2008 vintage Aker.

[dog town]

A combination of bad conversion and a well prepared Hawthorn cost Geelong. So many grand finals go exactly as last weeks played out. The favourites struggle to put a gap on then the under dogs get a sniff and seize that moment. I thought Geelong overused the footy to be honest.

What did everyone think of the Norm Smith? Hodge was the most influential on the ground I thought but do you take points off the individual's performance because he played loose for half of the game? Its not the hardest role to play. Its not having a crack at Hodge because he just does the best he can with the role he is given. I just think we overrate some of the guys who play loose at times. Valuable for the team but perhaps not as good individually as some of the midfield performances. To me Ablett worked harder and put more into his game. I dont really know how to compare the different types of performances. Perception is amazing, J.Cloke was chased out of the game for being effective as a loose man. He is not in the same hemisphere as Hodge but some of the criticism he copped is in stark contrast to what some of today"s player cop.

Stewie Dew could not have been far from getting the medal either. When your talking influential he is a name that pops up for that game. He had a hand in every goal that put the gap on the cats. Master stroke by Clarkson to have him floating around up forward. While the cats zoned back Dew was cutting them up from outside 50. Would like us to have a few deeper kicks to allow us the same flexibility.

[The Doctor]

Would like us to have a few deeper kicks to allow us the same flexibility.


This is where we could send Gilbee forward a bit more often. Whilst I'm reluctant to tinker with our backline as it is the one area of our team that has become fairly solid I think it would be a good attacking move from time to time.

[dog town]

This is where we could send Gilbee forward a bit more often. Whilst I'm reluctant to tinker with our backline as it is the one area of our team that has become fairly solid I think it would be a good attacking move from time to time. Well he might only get 12-18 touches but its going to get us 5 or more goals. The main problem is that we dont have that flexibility at this point with our lack of run and class out of the backline.

[GVGjr]

This is where we could send Gilbee forward a bit more often. Whilst I'm reluctant to tinker with our backline as it is the one area of our team that has become fairly solid I think it would be a good attacking move from time to time.

I was hoping for this move to the wing last season because just the quality of his kicking into the forward 50 would be invaluable for the leading forwards.
Doesn't Eade have the notion that he can't manage tags?

Even with Hargrave's great season in the backline, I would still be tempted to put him on a wing as well because with his pace and long kicking it could really help our forwards.
Covering Gilbee and Shaggy might difficult though.

[The Doctor]

I was hoping for this move to the wing last season because just the quality of his kicking into the forward 50 would be invaluable for the leading forwards.
Doesn't Eade have the notion that he can't manage tags?

Even with Hargrave's great season in the backline, I would still be tempted to put him on a wing as well because with his pace and long kicking it could really help our forwards.
Covering Gilbee and Shaggy might difficult though.

I would leave Hargrave in the backline full stop. I like the idea of a settled back 6 and if we can keep Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Gilbee, Callan and Williams together we have an excellent defence. Allowing Gilbee a bit of adventure up forward occassionally wouldn't upset the back half. We still have Everitt, Tiller, Addison in reserve and could call upon Griffen or Murphy to lend a hand. But I wouldn't want to change it around too much as a cohesive backline is essential in a premiership challenging side.

[The Doctor]

Well he might only get 12-18 touches but its going to get us 5 or more goals. The main problem is that we dont have that flexibility at this point with our lack of run and class out of the backline.


This is perhaps where we need Everitt to step up as I believe he could be a very good half back rebounder. He reads the play well, he can run and his field kicking is generally pretty good.

[GVGjr]

I would leave Hargrave in the backline full stop. I like the idea of a settled back 6 and if we can keep Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Gilbee, Callan and Williams together we have an excellent defence. Allowing Gilbee a bit of adventure up forward occassionally wouldn't upset the back half. We still have Everitt, Tiller, Addison in reserve and could call upon Griffen or Murphy to lend a hand. But I wouldn't want to change it around too much as a cohesive backline is essential in a premiership challenging side.

I'd prefer settled backline as well but given the weakness of our forward line we must find was of helping them out. So many times when Gilbee pushes into the midfield his delivery into the forward line finds one of our forwards. That's something that I would like to see a few more times a game. Teams take him back deep into defence for a very good reason and its not just about exploiting his size.

As you pointed out, we have plenty of back line depth as well and if Callan, Tiller, Everitt or Addison can free him up without compromising the back 6 then I think it would be a good experiment.

[dog town]

This is perhaps where we need Everitt to step up as I believe he could be a very good half back rebounder. He reads the play well, he can run and his field kicking is generally pretty good. He is a brilliant kick at times but we need a more consistent effort from him. Being injured early did not help him. He never really recovered. I still maintain that if an attacking half back pops up somewhere and he fits all the criteria then we should have a look at him. Hawthorn got Guerra in to do it, StKilda got Gram, North put Harding down back so they cant be too hard to find. Would give us better flexibility and make us far harder to shut down. I am sure Gilbee is sick of having guys like Lower following him around every week.

[The Doctor]

He is a brilliant kick at times but we need a more consistent effort from him. Being injured early did not help him. He never really recovered. I still maintain that if an attacking half back pops up somewhere and he fits all the criteria then we should have a look at him. Hawthorn got Guerra in to do it, StKilda got Gram, North put Harding down back so they cant be too hard to find. Would give us better flexibility and make us far harder to shut down. I am sure Gilbee is sick of having guys like Lower following him around every week.

Let's not forget Everitt was only in his second year this year and probably had a dose of 2nd year blues. He'll come good, I'm certain of it.

We had an attacking half back in McMahon but we cleared him so maybe Eade is happy with what we already have?

[LostDoggy]

You've got to be joking vs 2008 vintage Aker.

Beside that obvious one, Scarlett is better than Lake. Some people need to take their blinkers off.
If you can find room in our side for Otttens, Chapman, S Johnson and Mooney in our side when players like Eagleton and Ray were getting regular games there is something wrong.

[The Pie Man]

Let's not forget Everitt was only in his second year this year and probably had a dose of 2nd year blues. He'll come good, I'm certain of it.

We had an attacking half back in McMahon but we cleared him so maybe Eade is happy with what we already have?

Lil Spider started to look his first year self in Willy's finals - very confident he'll be a solid contributor next year and beyond

[dog town]

Let's not forget Everitt was only in his second year this year and probably had a dose of 2nd year blues. He'll come good, I'm certain of it.

We had an attacking half back in McMahon but we cleared him so maybe Eade is happy with what we already have? Pretty sure McMahon asked to be traded and given his attitude problems during that year Eade was pretty happy to move him on. The year before Eade publicly stated we were looking for another attacking half back to go with Gilbee and McMahon. We even had a look at Ryan Lonie of all players.

I agree Everitt will come good.

[GVGjr]

Pretty sure McMahon asked to be traded and given his attitude problems during that year Eade was pretty happy to move him on. The year before Eade publicly stated we were looking for another attacking half back to go with Gilbee and McMahon. We even had a look at Ryan Lonie of all players.



Slightly off topic but were we interested in Ben Johnson from the Pies a couple of season ago for that attacking defenders role? Word is that he is now off the untouchables list at the Pies. He probably isn't a good fit for us now anyway.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Slightly off topic but were we interested in Ben Johnson from the Pies a couple of season ago for that attacking defenders role? Word is that he is now off the untouchables list at the Pies. He probably isn't a good fit for us now anyway.

Good God no.

He would be off the untouchables list and just about onto the delistables list.

[GVGjr]

Good God no.

He would be off the untouchables list and just about onto the delistables list.

Were we interested in him at one stage though? I'm not sure why but I thought we were. I agree we don't need him.

[Stefcep]

The thing about Gillbee in the backline is that he's probably the straightest kick in the AFL: Many of our forward thrusts begin with him at half back or kicking in , here he'll always hit a target. If he goes to the wing or plays forward who can really do this as well he does? He also has a very good football brain, no-one in the backline has his decision-making ability. I've seen Lake do some really really stupid things kicking in or starting a forward move.

[Stefcep]

Beside that obvious one, Scarlett is better than Lake. Some people need to take their blinkers off.
If you can find room in our side for Otttens, Chapman, S Johnson and Mooney in our side when players like Eagleton and Ray were getting regular games there is something wrong.

What I'm talking about is straight like-for-like swaps : eg Lake for Scarlett at FB not Lake and Scarlet both in with Scarlett at CHB ( which again Scarlett would not have a clue how to play at CHB). How much better than Lake? Chapman for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Aker?, Milburn for Gilbee, S Johnson for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Mooney for Brad Johnson? These are harder decisions than getting rid of Tiller, or Callan or Ray or Eagle.

My point is if you look at Geelong on an individual player basis, we have equivalent and even better players playing in the equivalent roles. What Thompson was able to do was get them to gell really well as a team, and add to that a couple of super stars in Ablett and Bartell.

[LostDoggy]

What I'm talking about is straight like-for-like swaps
??? First said they would get a game in our side or Hawthorn. Comapring player vs Player is is not what was mentioned nor does it matter. Geelongs 22 > our 22


: eg Lake for Scarlett at FB not Lake and Scarlet both in with Scarlett at CHB ( which again Scarlett would not have a clue how to play at CHB). How much better than Lake?
Well Scarlett is a better FB or CHB than Lake. Bugger me if we couldn't fit him in. Only one of the best running backman in the league. Saying Scarlett couldn't play CHB is just BS and he is better than our current CHB anyway.


Chapman for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Aker?, Milburn for Gilbee, S Johnson for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Mooney for Brad Johnson? These are harder decisions than getting rid of Tiller, or Callan or Ray or Eagle.
Again its not players vs player. You aren't Mike Sheehan.
Well if get rid the last 4 they are in aren't they ????? We would be a much better side. Love to be a coach that has to decide where to play Chapman, Murphy, Brad Johnson, Aker, S.Johnson, Milburn, Gilbee & Mooney in his side. A much situation than choosing positions for Murphy, Brad Johnson, Aker, Gilbee, Tiller, Callan, Ray and Eagle


My point is if you look at Geelong on an individual player basis, we have equivalent and even better players playing in the equivalent roles.
Why didn't we beat them easily then? Gee you spin a lot of crap.

[Topdog]

What I'm talking about is straight like-for-like swaps : eg Lake for Scarlett at FB not Lake and Scarlet both in with Scarlett at CHB ( which again Scarlett would not have a clue how to play at CHB). How much better than Lake? Chapman for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Aker?, Milburn for Gilbee, S Johnson for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Mooney for Brad Johnson? These are harder decisions than getting rid of Tiller, or Callan or Ray or Eagle.


Ok great, then yes bring in Scarlett and drop Lake. Brad Johnson is not really a HFF, that role usually goes to Higgins so yes we can make that swap. Steve Johnson instead of Aker, yes please. And Mooney instead of either Big Will or Scott Welsh, considering those are our 2 tall forwards.

[Happy Days]

What I'm talking about is straight like-for-like swaps : eg Lake for Scarlett at FB not Lake and Scarlet both in with Scarlett at CHB ( which again Scarlett would not have a clue how to play at CHB). How much better than Lake? Chapman for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Aker?, Milburn for Gilbee, S Johnson for Murphy or Brad Johnson, Mooney for Brad Johnson? These are harder decisions than getting rid of Tiller, or Callan or Ray or Eagle.

Then why make the harder decisions when we can just drop these players and play the good ones?

Talking about like for like...

Tiller, @ 191cms, is a tall defender (for us anyway).

What role would Scarlett play for us?