So You Want to be a List Manager?

[The Doctor]

What would you do going into this years draft/trade period?

We are entitled to 38 places on the list. Plus up to 2 veterans and 4 rookies or 1 vet and 5 rookies, etc.

First of all let's make these assumptions/certainties;

* Ayce Cordy will be our 1st pick (14) in the national draft
* Farren Ray will be traded
* All the big name power forwards are unavailable (ie Brown, Pavlich etc)
* McDougall is already delisted
* Street is up for trade/delisting
* West has retired so only 1 veteran (Brad Johnson) is listed. No other Bulldog is eleigible for the vets list.
* Therefore 5 rookies are available to us
*Skipper has re-signed

Our draft picks are 32,48,64,80, 96

What will you do?
-------------------------------------------------

This is my strategy

Delist (if you can't get a trade):

McDougall, Street, Wight, Lynch, Eagleton

Why?

McDougall retired, Street already offered for trade
Wight - Gets beaten by everybody including VFL forwards. Had plenty of time.
Lynch - Hasn't kicked on, attitude.
Eagleton - If you can't kick a goal from 40m dead in front in a big game as a senior player then what good are you?

Trade Targets & maximum offer (take it or leave it)

Why? In no particular order

* Adam Hunter - who can play forward or back. Offer Ray + pick 32.

* O'Keefe - Convince him to come to us for under $500k per year. Offer Ray +pick 32

* Kositscke - Boyd

If these trades can't be done then keep our picks/players

Trade Our players

* Farren Ray - nothing less than a 2nd round pick otherwise PSD or keep.

* Tiller - any good deals on offer?

* Boyd, Giansiracusa, Murphy, Hahn - 1 for, or part of a deal for a genuine star key forward.

[U]Rookies[B][U]

Retain on rookie list

Mulligan & Shaw

delist

Hughes and White

3 spots available (1 extra due to West retirement)

[B][U]Expectation/U]

Ray trade for 2nd round pick and keep all other picks meaning

- 3 picks (incl 1 used on Cordy) inside first 34, + 48, 64 & 80
- no other deals

[B][U]Summary[B][U]

Trade Ray for a second rounder and keep all other picks unless one of our trade offers are accepted. Hope we can get something for the delisted players.

Open 3 spots on rookie list

Don't trade for 2nd raters (ie Boyle, Shulz etc)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Delist

Street
Macdougall
Wight
Lynch
O'Shea
Eagleton
Hughes
White

Retire
West



Trade
Ray to WC for Hansen & pick 52 - Draft picks are useless to West Coast, they have more than they can use. Ask them to throw in pick 52, they wont use it anyway (I expect pick 36 will be used in any Kerr trade).

Trade pick 32 to Freo for Campbell

Elevate Mulligan from rookie list *
Retain Shaw on rookie list *
* These two are basically interchangable to me, I haven't seen enough of either.

Pick 14 (Cordy)
Pick 48
Pick 52
Pick 64

Try to re-draft O'Shea onto the rookie list.


Don't trade anyone who wants to stay (unless they're going to get delisted anyway). It erodes loyalty and morale.

[bulldogtragic]

Delist/Retire:

Street (unless a trade can be found)
West
Macdougall
Wight (unless a trade can be found)
Lynch
O'Shea
Eagleton
(r) Hughes
(r) White


Trade Out:

Ray

Trade In:

(All quality KPP re-signed and un-gettable)

Hansen (plus lower pick as SS says they wot use them all) or Campbell (I'm not convinced we need both.


Draft Picks:

14*, 32 ,48 , 52 (If WCE gave it away), 64 ,80 ,96 (Used to elevate Either Mulligan or Shaw)


Rookies:

Keep: Mulligan/Shaw and sign up O'Shea
Recruit: 3 new rookies (looking at a mature player, possibly Wayde Mills ex. Brisbane)


Int. Rookies:

Sign as many promising Fijians as possible

[The Underdog]

Delist/Retire:

West
MacDougall
Street (or trade)
Eagleton (or trade)
Wight (or trade)
O'Shea (then rookie list him)

Rookies:
Retain Mulligan
O'Shea
Use 2 picks on mature aged (ie 20-21 yo) VFL type players, possibly one tall & one mid, possibly one more pick on a young player or retain Henry White.

Delist Shaw

Try to trade Ray for a swap of draft picks with West Coast or Freo.

We gain: pick 20 (or 21), pick 36 (or 37)
We lose: Ray, pick 32, pick 48

Forget any of the established talls on offer, they are either bad fits, cost too much or they're just rubbish. If they're was a better quality tall on offer then I'd be prepared to sell the farm but unless one comes up I'm prepared to be conservative and try and upgrade draft picks to get us another one around the top 20. Would love to get a low 3rd/ high 4th rounder for Street, Eagleton or Wight to get us a pick between 36/37 and 64 which is a big gap between picks. Unlikely but you never know your luck.

[Scorlibo]

EXIT

West (retired veteran)
McDougall (retired)
Street (delisted)
O'Shea (delisted)
Lynch (delisted)
Wight (delisted)
Eagleton (delisted)
Ray (traded)
Hughes (delisted rookie)
White (delisted rookie)

WHICH FREES UP

7 Senior list positions.
3 Rookie list positions.

ENTER

Cordy (draft)
6 draftees (draft:p/pre-season draft)
3 rookies (rookie draft)

HOW THIS HAPPENS

Trade Period:
Ray ---> West Coast, pick 36 ---> Dogs

Draft Period
Pick 14: Ayce Cordy
Pick 32: James Strauss/Rhys O'Keefe/Kade Klemke/Tom Lynch
Pick 36: James Strauss/Rhys O'Keefe/Kade Klemke/Paul Cahill
Pick 48: Mitch Banner/Ash Smith/
Pick 64: Riley Milne/Ben Speight/Mitch Brown

Pre-season draft
Pick 16: Someone

Rookie Draft
Pick 16: Willy player?
Other picks: No idea.

[LostDoggy]

Pick 20, Eagleton ---> St Kilda, Kozchitzke ---> Dogs

Sorry to be picky but Saints lack pace so why would they trade for a 29yo that can run but isn't pacy?

[Scorlibo]

Sorry to be picky but Saints lack pace so why would they trade for a 29yo that can run but isn't pacy?

I would still call Eagleton pacy.

[LostDoggy]

How is Paul O'shea developing, i never hear much about him?

[Mantis]

I would still call Eagleton pacy.

I wouldn't.

Do you think all the other teams don't watch footy and would be happy to take Eagleton as part of a trade. As if we would be so lucky.

He is a going on 30 cat who get's found it when it's tough, opposition clubs wouldn't touch him with a 40 foot pole.

[Scorlibo]

I wouldn't.

Do you think all the other teams don't watch footy and would be happy to take Eagleton as part of a trade. As if we would be so lucky.

He is a going on 30 cat who get's found it when it's tough, opposition clubs wouldn't touch him with a 40 foot pole.

Then delist the b@st@rd, if he's not good enough for the 15 other clubs, he's certainly not good enough for us. :rolleyes:

What do people think Kozi's trade value would be? Pick 20 may be his currency anyway.

[Sockeye Salmon]

HOW THIS HAPPENS

Trade Period:
Ray, pick 48 ---> West Coast, Hansen, pick 20 ---> Dogs
Pick 20, Eagleton ---> St Kilda, Kozchitzke ---> Dogs



West Coast have picks 2, 18, 20, 36 as well as whatever they get for Kerr. They won't even use pick 48. Why would they give us pick 20 plus Hansen for Ray? They've already turned down pick 20 on it's own.

Even if you did manage to somehow trick them into signing the first trade, you wouldn't get Kossie for pick 20 and Eagleton has no trade value whatsoever.

[Scorlibo]

I edited my post to reflect the Eagleton untradable, Eagles draft-picked-up and Kozi un-gettable comments. If we can't snare a proven KPF then we may as well focus on getting some good kids in what is a very strong draft.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Eagleton may only work as a sweetener for a trade with Port. They said they want senior players and he'd be heading home. I'd be pushing very hard to get that number 4 pick they're waving around.
Ray, Boyd and Eagleton for the pick. See what they say. Boyd is a player we can afford to lose. He was in Mike's top 50 and came 3rd in the B&F. They might bite.

[GVGjr]

Eagleton may only work as a sweetener for a trade with Port. They said they want senior players and he'd be heading home. I'd be pushing very hard to get that number 4 pick they're waving around.
Ray, Boyd and Eagleton for the pick. See what they say. Boyd is a player we can afford to lose. He was in Mike's top 50 and came 3rd in the B&F. They might bite.

Not that I think any of the Bulldog players would agree to it nor would Port for that matter but you're clearing out a lot of experience there and that's something rebuilding teams tend to do rather than contending teams like ours.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm all for a very quite week now.

See if someone will snare Street or Wight. See what happens with Ray.

See if Freo or Hawks want to offload their talls or they can stuffed.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Not that I think any of the Bulldog players would agree to it nor would Port for that matter but you're clearing out a lot of experience there and that's something rebuilding teams tend to do rather than contending teams like ours.

Aaah yes, the old "contenders" trap. Like the tigers of old.
Really you're only losing Boyd. Eagle's washed up. Ray wants out and number 4 picks don't grow on trees. Port may not agree but it's a pretty attractive package.
Also. Do they actually ask the players? Really, I'm curious.

[GVGjr]

Aaah yes, the old "contenders" trap. Like the tigers of old.
Really you're only losing Boyd. Eagle's washed up. Ray wants out and number 4 picks don't grow on trees. Port may not agree but it's a pretty attractive package.
Also. Do they actually ask the players? Really, I'm curious.

Yes, all players have to agree to any trade.

DD if you trade away the likes of Ray, Boyd and even Eagle for one draft pick you are losing a lot of experience. Given our list isn't that deep the only option of covering it is to throw the untried youngsters into the mix. Now that might work but history would say it's better to promote players that have earned it rather than just chucking them on before they are really ready.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Did all the players agree to Leon Cameron and Monty being traded or is it a recent initiative?

Remember what Sheedy traded away for the one pick that got them Lloyd?
It seemed a lot of talent and experience was being lost but it was the right call.

[The Coon Dog]

Did all the players agree to Leon Cameron and Monty being traded or is it a recent initiative?

Remember what Sheedy traded away for the one pick that got them Lloyd?
It seemed a lot of talent and experience was being lost but it was the right call.

Tony Delaney & Todd Ridley!

[bulldogtragic]

Tony Delaney & Todd Ridley!
Okay Street and Wight for Port Pick 4...

I'll make the hard decision. :)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Did all the players agree to Leon Cameron and Monty being traded or is it a recent initiative?



Had to or it couldn't happen

[Mofra]

Eagleton may only work as a sweetener for a trade with Port. They said they want senior players and he'd be heading home. I'd be pushing very hard to get that number 4 pick they're waving around.
By that logic Courtney Johns would be a "sweetener" to us for any trade with Essendon, simply because he's tall.

30 y.o players rarely have value, especially those who are ok without being outstanding.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I consider Eagle untradeable largely for the reason I dont think anyone will offer anything of value for him. His role may diminish in 2009 but he still has an aerobic tank that none of our kids do.

I dont think we can afford to lose both Ray and Eagleton in the one offseason - Ray being the heir apparent to Eagles wing, and it just cuts into our depth enormously

[Dancin' Douggy]

I consider Eagle untradeable largely for the reason I dont think anyone will offer anything of value for him. His role may diminish in 2009 but he still has an aerobic tank that none of our kids do.

I dont think we can afford to lose both Ray and Eagleton in the one offseason - Ray being the heir apparent to Eagles wing, and it just cuts into our depth enormously

But for a number 4 pick?

[Dancin' Douggy]

By that logic Courtney Johns would be a "sweetener" to us for any trade with Essendon, simply because he's tall.

30 y.o players rarely have value, especially those who are ok without being outstanding.

Eagleton has talent Courtney Johns has none.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Had to or it couldn't happen

I'm not trying to be an $#@%hole about this, but I really had no idea that was the case.
Are all clubs the same?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Tony Delaney & Todd Ridley!

I know some of these trades are pretty hard to unravel with on trades and draft picks etc but I'm pretty sure it was more than that. Also. Delaney and Ridley were highly regarded senior players at the time. Street and Wight are pretty much Williamstown players. No comparison at all.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm not trying to be an $#@%hole about this, but I really had no idea that was the case.
Are all clubs the same?

It's always been that way.

No-one can get traded without agreeing to it and signing the form.

Some players have it pointed out to them if they don't go they might not get a game next year, but ultimately it's their choice.

The most notable one was probably Heffernan when he first left Essendon. Essendon wanted to trade him to Brisbane for Cupido but Heffernan just said no. Essendon traded Caracella instead.

Heffernan got the message he wasn't required and agreed to be traded to Melbourne instead.

[soupman]

I'm not trying to be an $#@%hole about this, but I really had no idea that was the case.
Are all clubs the same?

I think you're interpreting it as saying that every player on the Bulldogs list has to approve the deal, which is not the case. Instead, all the players directly involved in the trade have to agree to it for it to go through.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think you're interpreting it as saying that every player on the Bulldogs list has to approve the deal, which is not the case. Instead, all the players directly involved in the trade have to agree to it for it to go through.

Phew. You're right. I was just misenterpreting the post.
The player involved has to agree, not the "players" as a group.