Oldest, Smallest forward line in 2009

[bulldogtragic]

Welsh,
Johnson,
Aker


Will the club now seriously look at Nathan Thompson?

Say delist Wight, give Thompson one year. Even if Thommo does nothing, that's an improvement on Wight as he can't play forward.

Either that, or do we blood Grant and accept a drop in perofrmance while he gets used to things and potentially risk a few close games (games we won this year to get to third?)

Don't get me wrong, i'm stoked we broke our addition to trading for dud talls. Great break of tradition (and heres hoping it sticks). I was against Thommo but a PSD pick and taking the place of a tall who couldn't crack it into our team when we were crying out for a tall MAY possibly be an option.

Otherwise it's a very old forward line, and a forward line we may not have any of in 2010? Got to do something now we made the right decision not to give anything up for a dud.

Thoughts

[Desipura]

Grant & Boumann will be given every opportuntiy next season. Hopefully Williams will be fit and firing.
All we need is some luck with one of our picks becoming an instant hit, hopefully he is a kpp!

[The Underdog]

Thompsone may help our smallness but would only add to the oldness. I really can't see the point. Try something different with the guys we've got (assuming we can keep em fit of course)

[Sedat]

I'd be getting monster pre-seasons into both Boumann and Grant in the expectation that one of them can grasp the gilt-edged opportunity with both hands. Not expecting miracles but if one of them can play 10-15 games and kick 20-25 goals that would be a good result and would structure up the forward line a little better.

The Minson experiment was not exactly a complete failure either. I'd expect him to continue to improve his effectiveness as a key forward target in his burst stints up forward next season. Expected output of 20-25 goals from him should be the expectation.

[bornadog]

In 1990, Terry Wheeler decided to put a 17 year old kid at Full forward for the season, result, the youngest player to ever kick 50 goals in a season.

Jarrad Grant or Boumann, need to be thrown in the deep end so they can get valuable game time.

[LostDoggy]

In 1990, Terry Wheeler decided to put a 17 year old kid at Full forward for the season, result, the youngest player to ever kick 50 goals in a season.

Jarrad Grant or Boumann, need to be thrown in the deep end so they can get valuable game time.

So you would be happy to drop some games along the way while they find their feet? Did I read somewhere that when Boumann played for the Willy firsts he had no influence on the game at all? If we already had an established key forward this could work better but we don't have genuine key forward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In 1990, Terry Wheeler decided to put a 17 year old kid at Full forward for the season, result, the youngest player to ever kick 50 goals in a season.

Jarrad Grant or Boumann, need to be thrown in the deep end so they can get valuable game time.

Whilst not wanting to take any credit away from the great man Wheels, it was perhaps easier with someone who is undoubtedly amongst the best half a dozen players ever to have played for the club

Eade was certainly planning to blood Grant in 08 had he been fit, but lets not get carried away with Boumann - it took his professionalism a while to emerge.

[Scorlibo]

In 1990, Terry Wheeler decided to put a 17 year old kid at Full forward for the season, result, the youngest player to ever kick 50 goals in a season.

Jarrad Grant or Boumann, need to be thrown in the deep end so they can get valuable game time.

An interesting point. While I don't think that playing either of the Jarrads will have the same effect, it would still be worthwhile. I think that if you have the talent as Golly + Boumann have (especially Grant) you can always have an impact, a wafer thin Dr Drej proved that in 2007.

[LostDoggy]

I posted on another thread the question of what do we do in 09?? Our forward line this year (apart from pre-lim final) was not the issue. Scoring wasn't a problem if I remember correctly. Losing the drive from our backline and not enough midfield pressure at times was the thing that made our forward line look shabby. When we were able to transfer the ball quickly and directly we had more than enough fire power up forward. That said, it's not always the case that you can go inside 50 cleanly meaning that without a big pressence that can grab the ball in a pack more often than not the opposition will clear the ball out.

Does it frustrate anyone else that we seemingly have trouble developing our tall players? Would it be better for them to give away some body size in exchange for getting quality delivery that they wouldn't get as often in the two's? Look at guys like Tippet and Westhoff. Although they may be a little older than the Jarrad's, they have been able to get a crack early and have played some good footy.

Who's to say that Grant wouldn't have played some senior footy this year if he didn't have OP? We as members and supporters have our own ideas and theories on how things should be done but I guess we have people that are paid good money to make these decisions. Let's just hope they make the right decisions.

Cheers!
Hobdog

[GVGjr]

Does it frustrate anyone else that we seemingly have trouble developing our tall players?

Would it be better for them to give away some body size in exchange for getting quality delivery that they wouldn't get as often in the two's? Look at guys like Tippet and Westhoff. Although they may be a little older than the Jarrad's, they have been able to get a crack early and have played some good footy.



Yes it is very frustrating that a lot of our talls don't develop like they should but mind you we don't draft enough of them so we leave ourselves a little exposed anyway.

Regarding Tippet and Westoff:
Tippet is exactly the type of power player that we need. He is equally at home in the forward line and ruck. Terrific build but like Grant he missed playing in the first season (with a shoulder injury)
Westhoff is someone who had done a bit in the SANFL before he was drafted so whilst he was very skinny he already had a season mixing it with the big boys. At 199cm he also had that sort of height/mobility that would trouble defenders.

[Mofra]

I posted on another thread the question of what do we do in 09?? Our forward line this year (apart from pre-lim final) was not the issue. Scoring wasn't a problem if I remember correctly. Losing the drive from our backline and not enough midfield pressure at times was the thing that made our forward line look shabby. When we were able to transfer the ball quickly and directly we had more than enough fire power up forward. That said, it's not always the case that you can go inside 50 cleanly meaning that without a big pressence that can grab the ball in a pack more often than not the opposition will clear the ball out.
We had no trouble when we had an inside 50 under little pressure. Aginst the top sides, we were exposed for quality of delivery, which a genuine marking forward would have helped to overcome.
Minson & Hahn's bulk helped, however Murph's injury meant we needed a forward who could run had to the HF line when needed. The only effective forward playing this role was Higgins, who wasn't fit enough to the do the hard running required (due injury, not blaming him at all). We were doubly hurt by Welsh's form - an in form Welsh would have made a difference.

I would be surprised if Grant didn't get some seriouss gamtime next year, he leads well & has a decent set of mits on him. It's worth remembering that in Turtle's first year, defenders could still punch the arms to a skinny 17yo had to put up with this all year. Stinger wont have this problem, and his inclusion in the side is unlikely to hurt us badly if he attracts a genuine tall defender anyway.

[comrade]

How good will it be seeing some genuine young height in the forward line over the next few years; Grant, Cordy & (hopefully) Boumann.

Here's a question. Would you mind if we went backwards if it meant fast tracking the players that will (hopefully) take us towards a premiership, i.e. the above mentioned KPP, Ward, Reid etc? Personally, I wouldn't mind it, within reason. Obviously, if the kid's attitude stinks or they're horribly out of form don't play them, but I'm prepared for some short term pain if it meant future success. Of course we've been saying that for 54 years.

I'm interested to see how others feel.

[GVGjr]

How good will it be seeing some genuine young height in the forward line over the next few years; Grant, Cordy & (hopefully) Boumann.

Here's a question. Would you mind if we went backwards if it meant fast tracking the players that will (hopefully) take us towards a premiership, i.e. the above mentioned KPP, Ward, Reid etc? Personally, I wouldn't mind it, within reason. Obviously, if the kid's attitude stinks or they're horribly out of form don't play them, but I'm prepared for some short term pain if it meant future success. Of course we've been saying that for 54 years.

I'm interested to see how others feel.

I suppose if that was going to be the decision then we would have needed to cut into the list a bit deeper than we did. There is pluses and minus's in this approach.
The two scary ones are
1) Losing a number of players like Johnson, Akermanis, Hudson and co in the next season or so whilst we get the games into the younger players and hoping that they can fill the void and
2) The impact on our precarious membership position. The club just hasn't been able to strip back the list like the Hawks did because of the impact of successive low finishes might have on membership numbers.

I am of the impression that we need to be competitive at the top end of the competition rather than taking the hit for a couple of seasons.

[LostDoggy]

How good will it be seeing some genuine young height in the forward line over the next few years; Grant, Cordy & (hopefully) Boumann.

Here's a question. Would you mind if we went backwards if it meant fast tracking the players that will (hopefully) take us towards a premiership, i.e. the above mentioned KPP, Ward, Reid etc? Personally, I wouldn't mind it, within reason. Obviously, if the kid's attitude stinks or they're horribly out of form don't play them, but I'm prepared for some short term pain if it meant future success. Of course we've been saying that for 54 years.

I'm interested to see how others feel.

We dont have any choice but to take a few backward steps. We cant win the flag with our midget forward line. Key forwards win premierships

[bulldogtragic]

I suppose if that was going to be the decision then we would have needed to cut into the list a bit deeper than we did. There is pluses and minus's in this approach.
The two scary ones are
1) Losing a number of players like Johnson, Akermanis, Hudson and co in the next season or so whilst we get the games into the younger players and hoping that they can fill the void and
2) The impact on our precarious membership position. The club just hasn't been able to strip back the list like the Hawks did because of the impact of successive low finishes might have on membership numbers.

I am of the impression that we need to be competitive at the top end of the competition rather than taking the hit for a couple of seasons.
While Aker, Johno, Welsh, Huddo and Eagle are able to pump out good games, than we shouldn't gift too many games to underdeserving players. Yes, i know that's sort of how Hill came on, but still very good teams have fierce competition for spots and if we have that situation i wouldn't like to blood kids if others are ahead of them on form. If their form at Willi demands a spot great, that's what we want.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I want a flag. We all want a flag. Whatever is necessary. Backward steps included.

[comrade]

I suppose if that was going to be the decision then we would have needed to cut into the list a bit deeper than we did. There is pluses and minus's in this approach.
The two scary ones are
1) Losing a number of players like Johnson, Akermanis, Hudson and co in the next season or so whilst we get the games into the younger players and hoping that they can fill the void and
2) The impact on our precarious membership position. The club just hasn't been able to strip back the list like the Hawks did because of the impact of successive low finishes might have on membership numbers.

I am of the impression that we need to be competitive at the top end of the competition rather than taking the hit for a couple of seasons.

Unfortunately, that's our biggest problem. Not to mention our sponsorship situation.

[GVGjr]

While Aker, Johno, Welsh, Huddo and Eagle are able to pump out good games, than we shouldn't gift too many games to underdeserving players. Yes, i know that's sort of how Hill came on, but still very good teams have fierce competition for spots and if we have that situation i wouldn't like to blood kids if others are ahead of them on form. If their form at Willi demands a spot great, that's what we want.

The club, and Eade in particular, has done a decent job at bringing in young players at the right time. Higgins and Addison from the 2005 draft are performing well but still have plenty to work on. From 2006, Everitt slowed a bit this year but has plenty of potential and Hill in particular has been a revelation. On top of that we have added the grunt of Harbrow. From 2007, Ward looks very classy and even Reid snatched a game.

We probably could have done a bit more but we haven't just shunted these guys off in Williamstown and by introducing them when they have a bit of form behind them, they can at least come in to the side with a bit of confidence.

Grant, Stack, Wood and O'Keefe should get a taste of senior football in 2009 as well. The real question is if we just left them in the side regardless of their output would it benefit the player or the club in the long run?

I don't mind the approach we are taking at the moment.

[bulldogtragic]

The club, and Eade in particular, has done a decent job at bringing in young players at the right time. Higgins and Addison from the 2005 draft are performing well but still have plenty to work on. From 2006, Everitt slowed a bit this year but has plenty of potential and Hill in particular has been a revelation. On top of that we have added the grunt of Harbrow. From 2007, Ward looks very classy and even Reid snatched a game.

We probably could have done a bit more but we haven't just shunted these guys off in Williamstown and by introducing them when they have a bit of form behind them, they can at least come in to the side with a bit of confidence.

Grant, Stack, Wood and O'Keefe should get a taste of senior football in 2009 as well. The real question is if we just left them in the side regardless of their output would it benefit the player or the club in the long run?

I don't mind the approach we are taking at the moment.
Makes two. The point of confidence is a great point. If we are blooding kids, we want form and confidence in and around the team, not players thinking others aren't deserving of spots. We are on an upward curve at the moment, i don't think we need to be re-building. With West, Ray, Street and Doogs who all played some senior footy this year, there absence opens up game time for kids already. I hope the kids are so god damn good next year they force Eagle and others out of the team. If that occurs, then watch this space.

[Sedat]

So you would be happy to drop some games along the way while they find their feet? Did I read somewhere that when Boumann played for the Willy firsts he had no influence on the game at all? If we already had an established key forward this could work better but we don't have genuine key forward.
As recently as the 2006 season, Buddy Franklin was lamenting in the Box Hill VFL side getting toweled up by opponents of the calibre of Dean Polo. I'm not suggesting that Boumann is the next incarnation of Buddy Franklin but things can change pretty quickly if the natural ability is there and is matched by the work ethic to continue to improve and develop.

[BulldogBelle]

It seems that Melbourne arent interested in Nathan Carroll anymore

Could he provide a stop gap solution at full back..whereby we would be able to play Williams, Everitt, Shaggy, Dale Morris and Nathan Caroll....and possible release Brian Lake to the forward line with Wilbur and a choise of Welsh, J Grant + Bowman etc as tall forwards....

I know Lake is our largest defender, but someone like Carroll could play on the oppositions 2nd or 3rd tallest forward...allowing Lake as a solution to our tall forward worries...

Carroll doesnt offer much in an attacking sense, but that job would be left to Everritt, Shaggy + Gilbee...

[Desipura]

Has had a number of off field issues and has still not toed the line. Also he is still contracted for another year.

[The Underdog]

It seems that Melbourne arent interested in Nathan Carroll anymore

Could he provide a stop gap solution at full back..whereby we would be able to play Williams, Everitt, Shaggy, Dale Morris and Nathan Caroll....and possible release Brian Lake to the forward line with Wilbur and a choise of Welsh, J Grant + Bowman etc as tall forwards....

I know Lake is our largest defender, but someone like Carroll could play on the oppositions 2nd or 3rd tallest forward...allowing Lake as a solution to our tall forward worries...

Carroll doesnt offer much in an attacking sense, but that job would be left to Everritt, Shaggy + Gilbee...

In an even better solution that doesn't involve picking up Nathan Carroll, I think if we want to use Lake forward we should play Tom Williams at FB (assuming he steps on a footy field for consecutive weeks) and Everitt at CHB as by the start of next year he should be 90kgs+. Obviously we then have the flexibility to use Morris, Hargrave and Tiller (if needed) in roles on other mid sized forwards. And if it all goes pear shaped then we also have Brian to move down back and throw one of the other guys forward. I really think we should have Everitt ready to have a crack at CHB at the start of next year. Sure he's going to get beat sometimes but he's showed he can play in the past, it's time he was given the responsibility and some time to learn on the job. It also relies on Tom ever being fit which is more of an issue given his history.

[BulldogBelle]

I'm sure the club will be happy if Williams can play anything more than 16 games for the '09 season.

[westdog54]

We dont have any choice but to take a few backward steps. We cant win the flag with our midget forward line. Key forwards win premierships

Since When?

Roughead and Franklin kicked 2 each this year, which was matched by Rioli and Dew, and bettered by Williams?

Geelong last year? Hell, the Casey Scorpions forward line would've racked up that score against Port Adelaide that day.

2004: Wanganeen was the leading goalkicker and Byron Pickett won the Norm Smith

You've got to go back to Alastair Lynch to find a grand final winning key forward, and he would've done sweet bugger all if not for the delivery he got from the fab 4, one of which is now playing for us.

It wasn't our 'midget forward line' that kept us out of the Grand Final, is was our innaccurate forward line. That same midget forward line that you oh so despise was also the highest scoring in the competition for the better part of 3 months. But I don't expect you to know that since you only seem to pay attention to our club when its doing badly.

Your theories on football would be all well and good in the 1960s, but news flash, jerry. Football has changed a bit since then. You need more than the tallest, strongest bloke in the world to win premierships.

You scream for Eade to be sacked despite us finishing 3rd this year. You cry for a cleanout of what is arguably our strongest list in two decades. You wait for a crushing defeat so you can parade around on this board and tell everyone just how awful we are. And when there's meainginful discussion going on, you offer up cheap, meaningless garbage designed to do nothing other than stir up trouble. I respect the administrators for putting up with your crap, they've got far more patience and tolerance than I'll ever have.

I'll never understand why a so called supporter, as you claim yourself to be, is so eager for our club to be unsuccessful.