My Shortlist Part 1 - Key Forwards

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm making precisely no claims to know anything at all about these kids. All I've seen of them is 1 day at the National Champs and a heap of Youtube videos (most of them of the same game I'd already seen). The comments are other people's views.

I'm assuming Watts, Johnston, McKernan and Cornelius are all long gone by pick 31.




Michael Still - (KPF) 24 March 1991, 192cm 81kg. Northern Knights/Eltham

Bottom age tall this kid could be an absolute ripper. Tall and mobile with very good hands. Still has the ability to keep finding good places to lead and his workrate improved as the year went on and he gained greater fitness and confidence at TAC cup level. Still's kicking is ok but a little mechanical and I think he may zoom up charts if he tests well. I see Still playing a Ryan Okeefe/ Nick Reiwoldt role at senior footballer. A forward with good hands who can play fairly high up the ground.


"foj1:: 27. Michael Still 192cm 81kg Northern Knights
Bottom age tall who has more than a touch of class. Has very good hands and is athletic. Has a bigger upside than most and is one who’s stocks may rise as the TAC season continues."


"VIC CROW: Michael Still has a ridiculously strong set of hands, but at this stage he doesn't seem to have a lot of other weapons. A pretty good leap actually. His kicking for goal is very suspect and he's not too quick or agile. I would be surprised if he got drafted this year as a bottom ager (though I just checked his DOB and he is eligible) but with improvement he's a chance to go in 2009. He was one of the key forward options I was talking about that Northern have an abundance of”


Sockeye's Stats:
* Still kicked 41 goals in 18 games this year (and 25 behinds which doesn't confirm Vic Crow's goalkicking comment).
* He took 83 marks (ave. 4.6) with 25 of them contested (ave 1.4).
* 33 tackles (ave 1.8)
* Was named in the best players 9 times.


Haven't seen this kid at all but his stats read impressively for someone who is only just old enough to make it into the age limit. Definite possibility for mine.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Mitchell Brown - (KPF) 28 August 1990, 191cm 82kg. Sandringham Dragons/Mentone Grammer

"hulld: The time has come...........this guy deserves his own thread. Another superb performance on the weekend with 20 possessions and 9 marks. Was a very unselfish performance and he worked tirelessly all day.
For those of you who have been living on another planet and are yet to realize this guy's talent, here is a bit of his background story:
Started the year off playing for the Old Mentonian under 19's where he kicked 20 goals in 5 games playing as a 17 year old. Four of these games were after he had played school footy in the morning. His biggest haul was a bag of 9 against Oakleigh.
He was the dominant key forward in the AGSV this season for Mentone Grammar. In a struggling team he managed to kick plenty of goals. There were at least 6 games where he managed to kick at least 4 goals. Highlighted by a bag of 8 he kicked against Penisula in front of Jarrod Molloy.
That performance led him to get signed up by Sandy where the impressive performances only continued. In his debut for Sandy against Gippsland he had 20 touches, 8 marks and kicked a goal. Other strong performances include a 4 goal game against the Stingrays, another 10 mark game (6 of which were contested) against Gippsland, and this past week he had 20 possessions and 9 marks against the Falcons.
But his best performance of the season would have to have been the bag of 8goals he kicked in the AGSV/APS match. Against opponents of high calibre he was the only stand out player in a match that showcased names such as Watts, Shuey and Toy.
For those of you who haven't seen him play he is a kid with great natural ability. Has the habit of making everything look easy. Reads the play really well and that would be his main reason for making his opponents look silly. I haven't seen anyone in junior footy this season with a better pair of hands then Mitch. Manages to take contested marks at will and with a couple of seasons in the gym this aspect of his game will only improve. His skills are really good and this combined with his great vision has allowed him to set up plenty of goals also.
He has been invited to the state screening which obviously proves I'm not the only one who has spotted his talent. Definitely one to look out for on draft day.

"GenW: From what i have seen this guy is a jet. Great contested mark, big work rate and footy smart. He has come from nowhere and would have walked into the VIC metro team if he was in the system earlier.

"GoestheTorp: Mitch Brown is a certainty to be taken early in the draft. He has played well in some big games. The 8 goals straight he kicked in the AGS v APS game was amazing. This game had Shuey, Watts, Andrews in it and he obliterated them all! Has been kicked bags for Sandy recently and is really on the radar.
Late 1st round for me

Sockeye's Stats:
* 7 games, 7 goals 10.
* 42 marks (ave 6) of which 16 were contested (ave 2.3)
* Named in the best 3 times.


Who knows? Is he a genuine talent or another Billy Morrison?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Phil Davis - (KPF / KPD) 30 August 1990, 192cm 83kg. SA/North Adelaide/St Peter's College

"thesaint: phil davis at st peters is one of the best players in the competition, his ability to play in any position is better than any other, his athletic ability is fantastic for someone that is around 6'5."

"Footballman: phil davis is a fair gun, 2 bad he did his shoulder and is out for 6 months."

"albyplus: The injured Phil Davis from SA would have to be a serious consideration"
"Anonymous: Great call!
Has slipped under the radar which is very understandable as he only played about a half of footy in the Champs against Vic Metro with a shoulder injury. Looked the goods against Watts early in that game as a defender but can certainly be used up forward and even through the midfield even though he stands at about 192cms.
Given his shoulder injury and the strength of this years draft, Id say he might slip to a 2nd round pick but mark my words whoever takes him will have a gem."

"DJ75: Wait for Phil Davis. He will get drafted and due to shoulder injury this year may slip a bit. Before that was a lock for CHB in the State U18 team. Played two reserves games for North and kicked a bag of goals in each game."

"Robbo PAFC: Also SA Forward Phil Davis re-did his shoulder in the game yesterday."

"?? Phillips: Phil Davis (North Adelaide):
“At 193cm he’s very versatile, we can play him in key positions or through the midfield.
“He’s a St Peters boy so will play a bit of college footy as well this year.”"


Sockeye's Stats:
* 3 reserves games for 10 goals, twice in best.
* 1 U19 game for 3 goals
* 2007 – 6 games in U17’s for 1 goal, named in best 4 times.


Another one I haven't seen as he was injured all year.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Paul Cahill - (KPF) 19 August 1990, 192cm 80kg. SA/Sturt/Mitcham Hawks

"Jason McCartney: Paul Cahill – From limited opportunities up forward he continues to look a handy player. His kicking isn't super, but his athleticism is impressive. If South Australia can get the ball quickly into its forward line, Cahill can use his great vertical leap to his side's advantage. He kicked one goal against Western Australia."

"Jason McCartney: Paul Cahill - He came to our December AIS camp as one of the athletes who was close to getting a scholarship and we wanted to have a look at him. Paul stands at 192cm and he has a massive vertical leap, and he uses his great spring in the way he plays. He was pretty lively at full-forward and I thought he really turned the game for South Australia in the second half when he pushed out to centre half-forward. He only had the 10 disposals and kicked two goals, but he took five contested marking and stood out in the third quarter. Something happened around him all the time and if he didn't win the ball, he made sure the crumbers got it, so he was important throughout the game."

"Gozz: Paul Cahill is a Sturt player from SANFL and is an absolute gun. Plays at CHF and is an amazing athlete with great hands. Dominated for SA against Tasmania and although he is not very well known I can guarantee he will be a bargain pickup. Especially for a team like Carlton who are in dire need of a CHF. Still pretty thin but he has been hitting the weights hard recently and is starting to fill out. He is very similar to Buddy Franklin in playing style but sadly that includes his kicking as he usually kicks scores like 6 goals 6 behinds. Watch out for him in SA's state matches. Mark my words, if Cahill is drafted he will be a gun."

"RooDog: I have seen a lot of Paul Cahill, last year i thought he'd be a certaintity to get drafted, this year im a little more apprhensive just dont know if he's up to it, last year he was a big kid playing against a lot of smaller kids, unbelievable hands but can be to selfish at times for my liking."

"ant555: Paul Cahill – 192cm, 80kg – Sturt.
Tall forward with good pace and a strong mark. Work rate and leading during the champs was excellent. Seemed to have a good handle on where to lead and how to work in with the other tall forwards. He is very athletic and mobile. He is not the best kick going around but he did manage to kick goals in all the games.
Can’t see a mobile tall like this bloke going much further back than fourth round."

"rizzo: Paul Cahill - 80kg - 192cm - 19.08.1990
Different type of key forward. He uses his explosive pace to get away from his man. Generally don’t find that in a guy that is 192cm. Nice mark and a beautiful set shot for goal. This guy will be there an abouts come draft time. Would love to see him play more out of CHF, tends to spend more time between goal and 30m out.
Skills - Speed, Marking, Set shot"

Sockeye's Stats:
* U19’s – 14 games, 48 goals, twice named in best
* Reserves – 4 games, 9 goals, twice named in best



I was laughing at this kid at the Nationals. Looked totally unco and out of his depth. He must have had better games than that one. Not for me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Tom Hill - (KPF) 7 April 1991, 198cm 79kg. Northern/Preston Bullants

Bottom aged KP forward who will need to put a bit of weight on. He has a good frame to suggest he could do that with a couple of years development. His main weapon is his contested marking (I'll ignore Round 19 vs. Eastern) and he has a vice like grip.

He's had very limited exposure to TAC Cup football after copping a couple of different injuries this year, but when he did play he impressed me. His game against Murray Bushrangers was a stand out, where he took eight marks and also had 18 hit outs.

He has improved his athleticism from an awkward looking 16 year old, to someone who moves across the ground fairly well. I think he's got plenty more scope for improvement on this front.

He'll need to become more of a goal kicker, however at 198cm and with a great set of hands he can be a tough one to match up on. His kicking has room for improvement, however I'm still impressed by a game he played at the U/16 Championships he played last year where he kicked (I'm pretty sure it was) five goals.

He seems to have a pretty good leap on him, but most times I saw him this season it was raining, so it wasn't a great day for talls (or for jumping) but he showed some very good signs, even in the wet. He could pinch hit as an undersized ruck, or more like do a bit of forward line ruck work. Definitely a project player.

"Nicko4: Hill is predominantly a key forward who scored six goals for Vic Metro at the 2007 NAB AFL Under-16 Championships. He averaged 13 disposals, five marks and three inside 50s per game at the carnival, and also totalled 4 score assists in the three matches. He had elite disposal efficiency of 82% and was strong overhead with a total of five contested marks."

"Sportz1: Hill. He's a big show to, tall bloke but an ordinary kick although at the u/16's carnival he kicked some great goals . Good strong mark and ok speed wise . He will be on a few radars already but will have to develop like most big blokes but at a young age he is going well for a big bloke .Possible 08 but they like to take big blokes later because they take so long to develop. I suppose it will depend on his development this year . He's in the AIS squad so should help."

"Realistic Tiger: Tom Hill - 196cm key forward from Northern Knights (Cotchin & Hurley's teammate). Scored 6 goals in the U/16 Championships last year where he averaged 13 disposals 5 marks and 3 Inside 50's. Has an elite disposal efficiency of 82% and knows how to take contested marks as he took 5 in 3 games for the championships."

"Gilly1972: I like Tom Hill, he has good pace and mobility for 198cm, nice leap and relatively soft hands. Still very sleight and skinny but he has a good build and a frame that looks like it will put on some muscle without compromising too much of his pace/mobility. I've only seen him a couple of times so I don't have as much to go on as others. He is bottom aged and 12 months behind Vickery development wise, but I think he shows enough that he has the potential to possibly go past him in time. Being bottom aged, you'd largely be picking on upside and might be more of a risk in that respect, but if he has the work ethic and desire to make it I see him being AFL quality. Will be interested to see how he tests at DC, but from what (little) I've seen I think he has potential as a Ryder-type tall KP, but will be more than handy pinch-hitting in the ruck as well. Could creep into the first round or early second round. I dare say our scouts have seen him a few more times than I."


9 games, 3 goals, 8 contested marks.


One for later on in the draft, too young to rookie. No.

[bulldogtragic]

Davis could be an interesting prospect...

I like Roughead on paper too. Where does he sit?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Davis could be an interesting prospect...

I like Roughead on paper too. Where does he sit?

More of a ruckman.

Jordan Roughead - (R / KPF) 3 November 1990, 199cm 87kg. VicC/North Ballarat Rebels/Lake Wendouree

"Jason McCartney: Jordan Roughead – Playing against Naitanui, he didn’t get the same stats but managed to sneak forward for a goal. He competed really well early but what grabbed my attention, and it did against NSW/ACT as well, was his strength in the air. He's got a great overhead grab and good agility so he appears to have a promising future."

"???: Cousin of Hawthorn’s Jarryd, a good-sized mobile ruckman."

"HFF 07: Jordan Roughead 199cm 87kg RUCK/FF North Ballarat
Ruckmen who has a great leap and solid ruck skills, is competitive and is pretty mobile for a big guy, Has ample skills and is a good size to play AFL.
PROS: - Ruck skills, Leap, Agile/Mobile,
CONS: - Skinny, Pace (not sure how quick he is),
PREDICTION: 15 - 30"

"foj1:: 5. Jordan Roughead 199cm 87kg Vic Country
Roughead has improved markedly in the last year and is another player with a basketball background. Used predominantly in the ruck where he showcases his athleticism in ruck contests and around the ground. Rougheads hands continue to improve and is a dangerous player in the forward line. Roughead has wide shoulders and will develop into an imposing athlete after a few AFL preseasons."

"ant555: Jordan Roughead – 199cm, 87kg – North Ballarat.
Ruckman who possess a pretty good leap and good ruck skills. Gives a contest all day and is good around the ground. He is a solid mark and has nice right foot kicking skills. Is pretty mobile and gets to where he needs to be. Likes to push back into defence and fill the space. His pace is nothing to write home about but he can match it with most ruckmen. Have seen a couple of TAC Cup games where he has dropped a few marks that he should have taken.
Prediction – pick 12 to 40."


* 18 games, 8 goals.
* Named in bests 4 times (always 5th or 6th best).
* 40 marks, 8 contested.
* 71 kicks and 85 handballs for the year
* 240 hitouts


Ruckman who wins lots of hitouts and does not much else

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks Sockeye. I think I can write him off on those stats. Very unimpressive stats...

[bigwoofa]

Jordan Roughead would be a good great but becuase of the name i cant see him slippign to 31 =[

Wouldnt mind getting Still ... He's young, got a great set of hands.

"VIC CROW: Michael Still has a ridiculously strong set of hands, but at this stage he doesn't seem to have a lot of other weapons.

What else do you want for a KPF. Im sure his kicking at goal isnt that bad with 41 goals 25.. Might have a little bit of Buddy in him

[Sockeye Salmon]

Michael Still is one of my draft sleepers- if I had my time over again I might place him at pick 17 for Melbourne. Had a look at screening results and he is up to 194cm. I would use Okeefe and Reiwoldt as 2 similar type players. He has good hands but what I like about him is he continues to move and is rarely stagnant. That is a good gift for a forward.

This kid just keeps sounding better for us all the time

[Dogs 24/7]

This kid just keeps sounding better for us all the time
So who would you be leaning towards recommending given the players likely to be available ? We need a key forward and we should use one of these picks on one if there is still any quality available.

[Sockeye Salmon]

So who would you be leaning towards recommending given the players likely to be available ? We need a key forward and we should use one of these picks on one if there is still any quality available.

I don't really have much idea, I've seen some of these guys once and most not at all. All I've done is collated stuff that other people have written, watched 3 minute Youtube videos and read some stats.

For all of that, I love the sound of Still.

Lynch looks like a slightly taller Mitch Hahn with better skills but not really a KPF.

Cahill looks like a total gumby and I really don't want him. I saw him at the TD in June and I was watching out for KPF's. I thought he was hopeless. He did kick 8 in one game so he must be better than what I saw.

Davis was injured all year so who knows?

Brown could be the next Andrew Mackie or the next Caleb Mourish. I know nothing about him at all (Mackie was almost unheard of and playing for St. Peter's College in Adelaide until Geelong took him at 7, Mourish was playing school footy as well but was talked up on internet boards as a top 20 pick. Eventually Freo rookied him and then delisted him.

[Topdog]

So who would you be leaning towards recommending given the players likely to be available ? We need a key forward and we should use one of these picks on one if there is still any quality available.

That there is the key word. We have 2 picks in a row and we shouldn't be stuck picking up a "type" of player. In the last 2 years we have got Grant, Boumann and Cordy who are all potential key forwards. We can not pick up too many whilst neglecting other areas of the team just because our options are so poor at the moment.

[strebla]

That there is the key word. We have 2 picks in a row and we shouldn't be stuck picking up a "type" of player. In the last 2 years we have got Grant, Boumann and Cordy who are all potential key forwards. We can not pick up too many whilst neglecting other areas of the team just because our options are so poor at the moment.

Agree 100 percent we should pick the 2 best footballers available we have the kids to work on already. I think our list rates well against most others for potential.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Agree 100 percent we should pick the 2 best footballers available we have the kids to work on already. I think our list rates well against most others for potential.

I disagree.

In all likelihood at least one of the three won't make it and there's always the chance that another will be wrecked by injury. Al of a sudden we are down to one forward again.

History has proved that it's practically impossible to differentiate between kids after the first round - statistically there is no difference in getting a 100 game player in the 2nd round compared to the 4th round - so best available after the 1st round doesn't work.

We are still at least 2 developing talls short.

[LostDoggy]

I disagree.

In all likelihood at least one of the three won't make it and there's always the chance that another will be wrecked by injury. Al of a sudden we are down to one forward again.

History has proved that it's practically impossible to differentiate between kids after the first round - statistically there is no difference in getting a 100 game player in the 2nd round compared to the 4th round - so best available after the 1st round doesn't work.

We are still at least 2 developing talls short.

I think we must select at least one tall regardless if the better ones have already been raided before our selections. That doesn't mean we should just pick a borderline player but maybe we look at some of the guys that might just be a fraction short of what we would ideally want providing he has better skill pace etc.
For example ideally a key position player would be around the 194cm mark or a bit taller but if there was someone with a similar size to a Mackie (but has a far better chance of making the grade) he is probably a better pick than adding another Cam Wight just because he tall. I'm not sure I have explained that well but I don't just want another work in progress player that might disappoint in 3 or 4 years time. If it meant a Jarrad Blight who is a bit shorter over a Paul Cahill then I would be happy with that.

[Go_Dogs]

I don't really have much idea, I've seen some of these guys once and most not at all. All I've done is collated stuff that other people have written, watched 3 minute Youtube videos and read some stats.

For all of that, I love the sound of Still.

Lynch looks like a slightly taller Mitch Hahn with better skills but not really a KPF.

Cahill looks like a total gumby and I really don't want him. I saw him at the TD in June and I was watching out for KPF's. I thought he was hopeless. He did kick 8 in one game so he must be better than what I saw.

Davis was injured all year so who knows?

Brown could be the next Andrew Mackie or the next Caleb Mourish. I know nothing about him at all (Mackie was almost unheard of and playing for St. Peter's College in Adelaide until Geelong took him at 7, Mourish was playing school footy as well but was talked up on internet boards as a top 20 pick. Eventually Freo rookied him and then delisted him.

Sacred Heart I think he played for, could be wrong...but it definitely wasn't St Peters.

[Topdog]

I disagree.

In all likelihood at least one of the three won't make it and there's always the chance that another will be wrecked by injury. Al of a sudden we are down to one forward again.

History has proved that it's practically impossible to differentiate between kids after the first round - statistically there is no difference in getting a 100 game player in the 2nd round compared to the 4th round - so best available after the 1st round doesn't work.

We are still at least 2 developing talls short.

Personally I'd go 1 tall. In terms of tall young players at the moment we have

Everitt
Williams
Tiller
Grant
Boumann
Cordy

I'm sure I am missing one or 2 aswell.

[bulldogtragic]

Personally I'd go 1 tall. In terms of tall young players at the moment we have

Everitt
Williams
Tiller
Grant
Boumann
Cordy

I'm sure I am missing one or 2 aswell.
I'd add two more talls.

Liberatore and Wallis look likely sorts and will come somewhat cheaper. Jones is ripping it up in NSW but without seeing him I can't judge whether he can replicate that in the city. If we take all 3, that's three mids in the next two years for cheap plus any others we take. On this basis, think the 6 names you mention isn't deep enough. Extend it to 8 with the support of Mino, Lake etc and even with a few misses or injuries we are stronger in the big-man dept.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Personally I'd go 1 tall. In terms of tall young players at the moment we have

Everitt
Williams
Tiller
Grant
Boumann
Cordy

I'm sure I am missing one or 2 aswell.

So we have precisely the required number. Lucky for us we won't have any injuries and they will all develop perfectly.

Lake, Hargrave and Morris are all 26 or 27. They'll all be 30 in 4 years time when developing talls are just about ready.

[FrediKanoute]

Two talls.....one to play forward and one to play back.

As has been said earlier we have 3 possible midfield options net year and we can always top up with a recycled player or rookie a la Harbrow. Yeah the draft next year is going to be cr*p because of GC17, but that just means you need to work a little harder to find some gems from outside the traditional system. It may mean having another look at VFL guys or other teams rookie/delistings and taking them on board. We did well in the 1990's with guys like Toohey, Dent, Curley, Huddo and even Harrison who all came in as trades. We've done well with guys like Welsh and Aka as well.

[Stevo]

Two talls.....one to play forward and one to play back.

That would be a nice outcome on draft day because whilst ideally we need to look at key forwards another key defender would still help us substantially.


We did well in the 1990's with guys like Toohey, Dent, Curley, Huddo and even Harrison who all came in as trades. We've done well with guys like Welsh and Aka as well.

Just some slight changes to this, Hudson was acquired in a Pre-season draft and Curley via a National draft.