Dogs tap into Fijian talent

[bornadog]

By Jennifer Witham
12:10 PM Tue 21 October, 2008

Inoke Ratu shakes Simon Dalrymple's hand after signing an international scholarship with the Western Bulldogs

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/is_dogs_a.jpg

NICHOLAS Naitanui may be making headlines as a hot draft prospect at the moment, but he may be joined by other Fijian football talent in the near future with the Western Bulldogs signing two young Fijian athletes onto their international scholarship scheme.

Inoke Ratu, 19, and Solomoni Loki, 16, were both spotted by the Dogs during the trials the club held in Fijian towns Labasa and Suva earlier this month.

Both from Suva, the young pair were met with dreadful conditions during the testing day, with monsoonal rain soaking the turf for 12 hours before the trial and then throughout the afternoon.

Bulldogs development coach Simon Dalrymple said that both players showed "good game sense and ball handling skills", as well as "good athletic ability, speed and vertical leap" during the trial game held in the inclement weather.

"We played a number of handball games as well as some eight-on-eight games, and they really stood out as being competitive," he told westernbulldogs.com.au.

"They seemed to quickly grasp the knowledge of the skills of the game.

"They were familiar with the game, they'd seen it on TV, and they never played it but they knew who'd won the grand final. There is a bit of exposure over there."

The Dogs were willing to commit to as many as four young Fijians as part of the push into the South Pacific under AFL international rookie rules.

The players will now be offered a salary of $1,000 for this year, and will be in weekly contact with Dalrymple regarding how they are handling their training program.

"They still live in Fiji but we have first access to them so they can't go to another AFL club," he said.

"We send them over a development program, which will cover all their football skills, conditioning, diet and game sense. We've got a pretty thorough program that we'll put in place with them.

"We've got some people on the ground in Fiji that will help us deliver that, as well as the AFL Oceania, which will send a competition over there so they'll play some games and they'll link in some visits to the Bulldogs throughout the 12 month period."

The Bulldogs will have the opportunity to relocate the players to Melbourne at the end of the year and sign them as international rookies on a bigger salary, or they can keep the players in Fiji on a similar agreement for another 12 months.

Dalrymple said the Dogs wouldn't rule out returning to Fiji to hold further trials in the coming years, after being encouraged by the turnout at both testing days.

"It was very much based on the vision of Campbell Rose to look outside the square, with the draft over the next few years set to be compromised," he said.

"It will be a real issue getting quality players over the next four years, and Campbell, along with James Fantasia, was encouraged by looking at [potential No.1 draftee] Nicholas Naitanui this year.

"He's going to be high up in the draft, and really from there, Scott Clayton and [financial backer businessman] Shaun Bassett went over there and did a lot of groundwork in setting up the program and developing some great contacts.

"We had over 400 attend the trials, and that was given the rain in Suva all day and night, and to get 300 there was an unbelievable result.

"The publicity out of us signing these two boys will be enormous. We see that it will just get bigger and bigger."

The Bulldogs will look at flying Ratu and Loki to Melbourne later this year, which will be their first overseas trip.

Inoke Ratu (19 years old, 197cm)
Athletic, very competitive, raw
Lives in Suva

Solomoni Loki (16 years old, 185 cm)
Raw but silky running style, great hands, an incredible aptitude for ball sport
Lives in Suva

[Mantis]

All sounds great.

Would be a great achievement to get them to an AFL level in a few year's times, but as explained in the article it is an experiment which is certainly worth some effort.

[bulldogtragic]

Worth $2000 for sure. And great exposure for our club. Perhaps the AFL can use or club to expand the game throughout the region. Could be great benefits for us.

[KT31]

Might want to get a DNA test.
20 years ago on a trip with Sokeye, I remember him going missing for a few days.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Might want to get a DNA test.
20 years ago on a trip with Sokeye, I remember him going missing for a few days.

"Solomoni Loki (16 years old, 185 cm)
Raw but silky running style, great hands, an incredible aptitude for ball sport"

Could be. The description fits and there's a lot of that trip lost in a drunken haze.

Does it say anything about him being slow as treacle?

[bulldogtragic]

Are we any closer to working out if this has been a worthwhile venture?

[bulldogtragic]

Are we any closer to working out if this has been a worthwhile venture?

5 years later, I've not heard a thing about this....

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I remember getting howled down for suggesting this was a complete waste of time and money after I saw one of the kids attempting to kick a footy at WO.

I still think it was a waste of time and money.

[bulldogtragic]

I remember getting howled down for suggesting this was a complete waste of time and money after I saw one of the kids attempting to kick a footy at WO.

I still think it was a waste of time and money.

It might seem counter intuitive, but I believe in testing authority and questioning decisions. Some people don't and want to accept everything they're being told is correct and I guess that explains why some including you and I get howled down every now and then. The world needs positive folks, but it also needs people to test ideas and suggest better ones. Now the philosophy is out of the way, it seemed a knee jerk reaction to Nick Nat being the prototype for the need to find athletes in other countries or codes that could be moulded into AFL footballers. Assuming the few years had about 40 flights with officials and players and Fijian boys coming back and forth and accommodation etc, I'd say maybe a $100,000. We've got no return on that money, and I'm not sure what the business case looked like, but then again, I don't know what the case for Mulligan getting 3 years was either.

[jeemak]

It might seem counter intuitive, but I believe in testing authority and questioning decisions. Some people don't and want to accept everything they're being told is correct and I guess that explains why some including you and I get howled down every now and then. The world needs positive folks, but it also needs people to test ideas and suggest better ones. Now the philosophy is out of the way, it seemed a knee jerk reaction to Nick Nat being the prototype for the need to find athletes in other countries or codes that could be moulded into AFL footballers. Assuming the few years had about 40 flights with officials and players and Fijian boys coming back and forth and accommodation etc, I'd say maybe a $100,000. We've got no return on that money, and I'm not sure what the business case looked like, but then again, I don't know what the case for Mulligan getting 3 years was either.

Are you really sure that's the reason?

By and by you're basically saying that because people don't agree with you it's because they are conventional. That's a bit much BT. Seriously mate.

[Remi Moses]

Silly idea that come from Scott Clayton if I recall.
Bit like our token Irishman Bernie Collins ( remember him getting so sunburnt he had to be hospitalised)
By what I've Seen Mason Cox is going to be a big development job for Collingwood

[bulldogtragic]

Are you really sure that's the reason?

By and by you're basically saying that because people don't agree with you it's because they are conventional. That's a bit much BT. Seriously mate.

The word 'some' is important in my bolded sentence, as opposed to 'all' who might disagree. Often I read a comment that says 'I'm happy to back the clubs decision' or words with the similar effect. I deduce or interpret such comments to have the effect that they are beleiving a decision's validity because the current powers that be have made it. Some others comments such 'the people at the club know more' or comments specifically about not being in the coaches box makes people's opinions to match day tactics is wrong because they don't know why a decision is made again is interpreted by me as to have the same effect of believing in decisions on the basis that the club or it's team knows more. Also my words in saying 'every now and then' is relevant in my language as it might suggest that not every time people are howled down is predicated on this reasoning.

By reading such comments my interpretation is 'some' posters accept decisions from club as being more informed or credible and may not test decisions to the degree others might. Again, the word I used is 'some' and that it was not every single time for opposing opinions or thoughts. As for interpreting my words as to have the effect or reference to conventionality is an inference you make. What is or is not 'conventional' is purely subjective, and I'm unsure why conventionality is in and of itself a bad thing. But I never used that word.

I'm not too sure how I would word it differently, I didn't use 'positive' statements and used two references to make sure I wasn't making cover all statements. As to the 'by the by' reference, yes, some people some of the time disagree with others based on proposition the club knows more. How would you suggest I articulate that some people accept the clubs decision and in so thinking, every now and then howl down (TBB's words) some that test a decision with questions or critical analysis?

[bornadog]

I remember getting howled down for suggesting this was a complete waste of time and money after I saw one of the kids attempting to kick a footy at WO.

I still think it was a waste of time and money.

What if we unearthed another Nic Nat?

[Greystache]

What if we unearthed another Nic Nat?

That's the point, the chances were so remote we may as well have randomly selected Fijian names out of the Melbourne White Pages. Or saved time and set fire to the money.

It was ridiculous considering we botched nearly every draft pick from the traditional recruiting zones during these years.

[bulldogtragic]

What if we unearthed another Nic Nat?

So with Majak Daw starting to rise in the ranks, have we been over to Sudan try find the next tall athletically gifted player that has never played our game?

[Topdog]

Better to have failed while trying to do something.

PS. Nic Nat aint much.

[bulldogtragic]

Better to have failed while trying to do something.


That's fine for the big clubs where $100,000 means much, much less. But that would have been the equivalent of funding a 2 rookies for a year, or one rookie for 2 years. That to me represents much, much higher chances of actually getting a player who might carve an AFL career, and a much better chance of a RoI.

[Topdog]

That's fine for the big clubs where $100,000 means much, much less. But that would have been the equivalent of funding a 2 rookies for a year, or one rookie for 2 years. That to me represents much, much higher chances of actually getting a player who might carve an AFL career, and a much better chance of a RoI.

Did we not get some extra funding from the AFL for this?

[bulldogtragic]

I just searched google, I couldn't find a reference to any support to the club, but an AFL puff piece talked about trying to start a comp in Fiji. And this:

The Bulldogs' Project Fiji scheme has signed Inoke Ratu, 19 and Solomoni Loki, 16 to the club's international scholarship program.

Ratu is described as "athletic, very competitive and raw" while Loki has a "silky running style, great hands and an incredible aptitude for ball sport".

Bulldogs development coach Simon Dalrymple said both youngsters showed good game sense and ball handling skills in a recent trial game held in wet conditions in the Fijian capital of Suva.

[azabob]

I just searched google, I couldn't find a reference to any support to the club, but an AFL puff piece talked about trying to start a comp in Fiji. And this:

The Bulldogs' Project Fiji scheme has signed Inoke Ratu, 19 and Solomoni Loki, 16 to the club's international scholarship program.

Ratu is described as "athletic, very competitive and raw" while Loki has a "silky running style, great hands and an incredible aptitude for ball sport". Bulldogs development coach Simon Dalrymple said both youngsters showed good game sense and ball handling skills in a recent trial game held in wet conditions in the Fijian capital of Suva.

You should have gone to page one, post one of thsi very thread for the very same puff piece!

[anfo27]

That's fine for the big clubs where $100,000 means much, much less. But that would have been the equivalent of funding a 2 rookies for a year, or one rookie for 2 years. That to me represents much, much higher chances of actually getting a player who might carve an AFL career, and a much better chance of a RoI.

Didn't Scott Bassett fund the fiji experiment?

[bulldogtragic]

Didn't Scott Bassett fund the fiji experiment?

I thought Scott paid for Tom Davidson??

Either way, that money could have been invested in a rookie or two.

[bornadog]

So with Majak Daw starting to rise in the ranks, have we been over to Sudan try find the next tall athletically gifted player that has never played our game?

Don't need to plenty of young Sudanese boys living in the West and all over Melbourne.

[bulldogtragic]

Don't need to plenty of young Sudanese boys living in the West and all over Melbourne.

That's my point. Why go to a country of origin like Fiji because Nic Nat hailed from that area? We should be looking at Australian kids with different family orgins who at least know the game. It was a weird decision, but silence for a few years now.

[bornadog]

That's my point. Why go to a country of origin like Fiji because Nic Nat hailed from that area? We should be looking at Australian kids with different family orgins who at least know the game. It was a weird decision, but silence for a few years now.

Well dead and buried and not sure why we are discussing this anyway.

[Greystache]

Well dead and buried and not sure why we are discussing this anyway.

Because those people who questioned it were shouted down at the time and have since been proven correct.

[bornadog]

Because those people who questioned it were shouted down at the time and have since been proven correct.

6 years later :eek:, good on them they were right.

[Bulldog4life]

Because those people who questioned it were shouted down at the time and have since been proven correct.

Oh please. So what!

[Greystache]

6 years later :eek:, good on them they were right.

And those who were shouting them down at the time are very keen to dismiss the whole project as ancient history. No surprise.

[Greystache]

Oh please. So what!

Seriously?

Sounds like Carolyn Wilson logic- I'll throw around as many accusations as I like today, but if you bring them up tomorrow I'll tell you you're living in the past and just trying to make me look bad.

[bulldogtragic]

Because those people who questioned it were shouted down at the time and have since been proven correct.

It goes to the notion that because key people at our club make decisions we must believe it. Intellectually I can engage on the merits of a decision and that I have been both wrong and right over the journey. But there is some element of 'if you're not in the coaches box how can know what something is', or 'we have good people and we have to back them in', 'people at the club are in the best position to know', and so on. History says we make regular mistakes, sometimes stupid mistakes, and I'm being told to not have opinion or question decisions because of not sitting on the MC, or coaches box or other. It is by some people questioning decisions that change gets effected. For instance, the first bulldogs person to say Rhode was crap would have been shouted down, and over time more said it and history shows Rhode was crap. The first person to say trading for Justin Sherman was a shit trade would have been told the team know what they're doing give them time. And so on. I got smacked down earlier in this thread and still no response for no good reason... For all the posts shouting people down, I wonder how many go back to those threads when they're wrong.

[Bulldog4life]

Seriously?

Sounds like Carolyn Wilson logic- I'll throw around as many accusations as I like today, but if you bring them up tomorrow I'll tell you you're living in the past and just trying to make me look bad.


Not sure what you mean with your comment but my opinion is that it is unnecessary to bring up a thread ages ago and comment "See I was right you weren't".Imagine if we all did that. My opinion, Fine if you don't agree.

[jeemak]

Did the mods clean up this thread, or was there others in which the shouting down occurred? I wasn't on WOOF then.

[bulldogtragic]

Seriously?

Sounds like Carolyn Wilson logic- I'll throw around as many accusations as I like today, but if you bring them up tomorrow I'll tell you you're living in the past and just trying to make me look bad.

Exactly. There's a little moral police factor sometimes surrounding the need to blindly follow the leader because they are the leader. History says that often enough at out club, following the leader blindly was a mistake. No one is lesser or better than anyone who dare question anything. Seriously, being told that we can't intellectually discuss our tactics and match day coaching because we aren't in the coaches box is rubbish. As are simplistic 'they're in the best position to know' throw away lines. Rubbish, when god's very own James Fantasia signed Mulligan for 3 years where was the club's accountability or our supporters who rubbished critical analysis of that decision. And Ayce, and Sherman, and Vez, and Fantasia, and the Veale Deal. And allowing Rhode to kill our chances through 08-10 through disgraceful list management decisions.

[jeemak]

The word 'some' is important in my bolded sentence, as opposed to 'all' who might disagree. Often I read a comment that says 'I'm happy to back the clubs decision' or words with the similar effect. I deduce or interpret such comments to have the effect that they are beleiving a decision's validity because the current powers that be have made it. Some others comments such 'the people at the club know more' or comments specifically about not being in the coaches box makes people's opinions to match day tactics is wrong because they don't know why a decision is made again is interpreted by me as to have the same effect of believing in decisions on the basis that the club or it's team knows more. Also my words in saying 'every now and then' is relevant in my language as it might suggest that not every time people are howled down is predicated on this reasoning.

By reading such comments my interpretation is 'some' posters accept decisions from club as being more informed or credible and may not test decisions to the degree others might. Again, the word I used is 'some' and that it was not every single time for opposing opinions or thoughts. As for interpreting my words as to have the effect or reference to conventionality is an inference you make. What is or is not 'conventional' is purely subjective, and I'm unsure why conventionality is in and of itself a bad thing. But I never used that word.

I'm not too sure how I would word it differently, I didn't use 'positive' statements and used two references to make sure I wasn't making cover all statements. As to the 'by the by' reference, yes, some people some of the time disagree with others based on proposition the club knows more. How would you suggest I articulate that some people accept the clubs decision and in so thinking, every now and then howl down (TBB's words) some that test a decision with questions or critical analysis?


It goes to the notion that because key people at our club make decisions we must believe it. Intellectually I can engage on the merits of a decision and that I have been both wrong and right over the journey. But there is some element of 'if you're not in the coaches box how can know what something is', or 'we have good people and we have to back them in', 'people at the club are in the best position to know', and so on. History says we make regular mistakes, sometimes stupid mistakes, and I'm being told to not have opinion or question decisions because of not sitting on the MC, or coaches box or other. It is by some people questioning decisions that change gets effected. For instance, the first bulldogs person to say Rhode was crap would have been shouted down, and over time more said it and history shows Rhode was crap. The first person to say trading for Justin Sherman was a shit trade would have been told the team know what they're doing give them time. And so on. I got smacked down earlier in this thread and still no response for no good reason... For all the posts shouting people down, I wonder how many go back to those threads when they're wrong.

Sorry BT, I've been in meetings all day and am now at the airport with some time to kill.

I initially read your post as inferring there's a sheep mentality among posters whereby the club is followed blindly and without question, while you and TBB are able to rise above that to a raised standard. If you're saying that's not how the post was intended to come across then I apologise for being heavy handed with my response.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry BT, I've been in meetings all day and am now at the airport with some time to kill.

I initially read your post as inferring there's a sheep mentality among posters whereby the club is followed blindly and without question, while you and TBB are able to rise above that to a raised standard. If you're saying that's not how the post was intended to come across then I apologise for being heavy handed with my response.

Thanks Jeemak, I appreciate your sentiments, thank you, not all posters are so gracious. There be need for any further subject matter for this thread, but more importantly which airport are you killing time in? I have to say in terms of when waiting time seems the longest, I've gotta say sitting in a domestic terminal waiting for the boarding call seems the longest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The shouting down was in another thread(s). I do remember posting something about it in a training report, which is probably where that part happened.

It was an exercise that made no sense given our club's situation in all areas.

[jeemak]

Sydney domestic. 6pm back to Melbourne. Junk time.

[bulldogtragic]

Sydney domestic. 6pm back to Melbourne. Junk time.

Long day, I prefer Sydney to Brisbane domestic, when coming back to Melbourne. I hope you haven't seen this post, as to paraphrase Pauline Hanson "If you are viewing this message now, you are delayed".

[jeemak]

Doors are closed, spare seat next to me. Here's hoping!

[bulldogtragic]

Doors are closed, spare seat next to me. Here's hoping!

I hear you brother. Nothing like scoring the extra a spare seat. One of life's little niceties.

[Topdog]

This thread explains what happened to the project and players. Couldnt find any shouting down of any posters in WOOF after a quick 5 minute search.
\
http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?8564-Bulldogs-drop-local-AFL-hopefuls

[jeemak]

Well, landed after a 40m delay. No rear disembarking. Typical Melbourne.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, landed after a 40m delay. No rear disembarking. Typical Melbourne.

WOOF still here though. :)

[GVGjr]

Did the mods clean up this thread, or was there others in which the shouting down occurred? I wasn't on WOOF then.

Nothing deleted on the thread.

[Sedat]

From memory Inoke Ratu's was father involved with the military coup of George Speight, so he was given no visa to enter Australia

[bulldogtragic]

From memory Inoke Ratu's was father involved with the military coup of George Speight, so he was given no visa to enter Australia

You beauty!!!!! :) We are diplomatic friends with Fiji again, so Inoke will finally take his place at Whitten Oval. What a coup.

[Greystache]

You beauty!!!!! :) What a coup.

Don't mention the coup!

[Topdog]

Wait so we are getting this bloke to come over now?

[bulldogtragic]

Wait so we are getting this bloke to come over now?

The last thing the club said was we want Inoke and once the travel ban is lifted he will come over. Unless we've forgotten the promise?

[G-Mo77]

The last thing the club said was we want Inoke and once the travel ban is lifted he will come over. Unless we've forgotten the promise?

I hope we do, a complete waste of time and money.

[bornadog]

The deadline is:

Friday December 12, by 2pm - International players inclusion on rookie list

Could still happen.

[Twodogs]

This recruiting department wouldn't do it unless they thought it was worthwhile.

[F'scary]

Sounds like this guy could really Kava things up on the field.

[Rocco Jones]

http://www.standard.net.au/story/1986564/south-recruit-with-rugby-pedigree/

[bornadog]

http://www.standard.net.au/story/1986564/south-recruit-with-rugby-pedigree/

Thanks for the article RJ. I wonder how he went during the year.

[Twodogs]

Thanks for the article RJ. I wonder how he went during the year.


Pretty average:


Game Log
DATE OPPOSITION G BST
Sat 10/May Port Fairy 0 0
Sat 17/May Hamilton Kangaroos 0 6
Sat 31/May Terang Mortlake 1 3
Sat 7/Jun Camperdown 0 0
Sat 14/Jun North Warrnambool Eagles 0 6
Sun 22/Jun Warrnambool 0 0
Sat 12/Jul Koroit 1 0
Sat 2/Aug Hamilton Kangaroos 0 0