Ben Cousins

[ledge]

Just heard the last club with any interested has shut up shop on him, which makes me wonder with all the training he was doing to play AFL football seeming to be his drive, where to for Ben now?
Will he slip back into drugs, or will he just play in some other comp and dissappear.
Even playing in another comp those clubs have still got to consider his past before playing him, just for the kids sakes who are playing at that club and responsibilities of parents not to worry about him being there and his influence.
And of course also the actual damage it could cause to the club itself.
I wonder if he will play footy again , whats your thoughts?

[GVGjr]

I think he needs to be playing football and it would be a shame to lose him to the game. It's a risk for any team to draft him but the rewards could have been great. In the end the risk was too much for a number of teams.
Beating the AFL 3 strikes policy has actually worked against him.

[mighty_west]

Who would want him, seriously?

What stuffed things up for himself was supposably going into rehab in the States, with all of the country watching him, he then goes and stuffs up by neally OD'ing in some appartment with a female friend who calls emergency, who could trust him?

If he needs to play footy so bad, i'm sure there will be some local club somewhere needing a gun midfielder!

In my opinion, what he needs is not to be on an AFL list, in the lime light, he seems to strive on taking advantage of the big stage.

As a long time Doggies member & supporter, would i want to see the likes of Ward & Cordy & Higgins & Everitt etc looking up to Ben, no way known!

[BulldogBelle]

I think he needs to be playing football and it would be a shame to lose him to the game.

I agree, I also think he needs to playing football. I just wonder though - now with St Kilda and Brisbane having both backflipped and gone cold on Cuz - will another club just quietly pick him up in the PSD? Probably not likely now - for example; look at the Kangaroos their sponsor was the one that said no thanks.

If he still has fire in his belly and wants to play AFL again perhaps spending a year in the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc and coming back in 2010 might be the go.

I just can't dislike him and feel a little sorry for him - I hope this latest setback in his quest to resurrect his career doesn't send him back into that dark hole.

[Sockeye Salmon]

While out of the game he missed two urine tests and turned up to a hair test shaved down.

Collingwood were interested in him until they got a private dick to follow him and then suddenly lost interest.

St. Kilda suddenly decide they have a "youth policy", although they're tipped to pick up the 28yo Nathan Carroll (no cleanskin himself) to add to redrafting Fraser Gehrig and picking up Steven King last year.


Cousins is almost certainly still on the gear and I think this will all end in a $80-a-night motel.

[Bulldog4life]

Even with this long drawn out saga going on and on he apparently still hasn't ditched his "questionable friends" that he was advised to keep away from.

That would have been a major reason too while all Clubs are giving him a wide berth I'd imagine.

[LostDoggy]

I like to know what the Collingwood investigator uncovered. They were red hot for him then went 180. Then a few days after the paper revealed that you have to shave your head so they cant test you, what does Benny do?

All you have to do is put two and two together.

[mighty_west]

Having a complete & utter moron dooshbag of a manager isn't helping his cause, to come out and say that any Johnny come lately's need not apply for his services, only 2 teams can pick him up, now with the Saints pulling out, and if Brissy also pull the pin, Benny can kiss his return to the AFL goodbye!

[OLD SCRAGGer]

You know, I still think Collingwoood MIGHT pick him up..after the so called Christine Nixon story of her telling the Pies to stay clear, they (Collingwood) have been very quiet on the whole Cousins affair, so it wouldn't surprise me if he still ends up there, I'm probably wrong, but it wouldn't surprise meall the same.



Just heard the last club with any interested has shut up shop on him, which makes me wonder with all the training he was doing to play AFL football seeming to be his drive, where to for Ben now?
Will he slip back into drugs, or will he just play in some other comp and dissappear.
Even playing in another comp those clubs have still got to consider his past before playing him, just for the kids sakes who are playing at that club and responsibilities of parents not to worry about him being there and his influence.
And of course also the actual damage it could cause to the club itself.
I wonder if he will play footy again , whats your thoughts?

[ledge]

Did he end up registering for the draft if he knew he wasnt going to be picked up?
Yes ,what a moron manager telling clubs not to bother and the only 2 clubs backing out, if i was Cousins I know who would be sacked ASAP.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Brisbane have gone from being keen to saying they would make up their mind before the PSD; to now saying they will not take him under any circumstances - all in 48 hours.

[LostDoggy]

I like to know what the Collingwood investigator uncovered. They were red hot for him then went 180. Then a few days after the paper revealed that you have to shave your head so they cant test you, what does Benny do?

All you have to do is put two and two together.

I don't think they needed a private dick to see what all of us can see.
They guy is an addict, he played on the stuff and I believe it made him a better player. One year of the game ain't going to cure it, its not an on-off switch.
Now a 30 yo, he will never be the player he was unless he is on the gear again.

[westdog54]

he played on the stuff and I believe it made him a better player.
Now a 30 yo, he will never be the player he was unless he is on the gear again.

Yeah?

Prove it.

[LostDoggy]

Doesnt he go into the PSD now?

I think someone is going to draft him...Putting the drug issue second, 30yo midfielder who has passion to play and a Brownlow medal, i cant see all 16 teams pass on that

[LostDoggy]

Yeah?

Prove it.

?
We have gone through this a thousand times. There is no doubt he played with so much confidence, self belief and invincibilty that made him a better player. If you don't believe the drugs contributed to it, I think you're kidding yourself.

[azabob]

?
We have gone through this a thousand times. There is no doubt he played with so much confidence, self belief and invincibilty that made him a better player. If you don't believe the drugs contributed to it, I think you're kidding yourself.

But dont all champions have those qualities?

[bulldogsman]

?
We have gone through this a thousand times. There is no doubt he played with so much confidence, self belief and invincibilty that made him a better player. If you don't believe the drugs contributed to it, I think you're kidding yourself.

That's stupid

[LostDoggy]

He got him self into this situation and in my opinion I do not think he deserves to play AFL football anymore. I applaud Brisbane for having the sense not to take him.

[LostDoggy]

I just watched the draft thing on Fox Sports and I get a feeling he'll be picked up in the PSD. Well that's what Nixon and co. were hinting anyway.

[LostDoggy]

That's stupid

No where near stupid as your reply. How about you tell us why you think its so?

[LostDoggy]

But dont all champions have those qualities?

I don't deny that , I just believe a major part came from what he was on.

[westdog54]

?
We have gone through this a thousand times. There is no doubt he played with so much confidence, self belief and invincibilty that made him a better player. If you don't believe the drugs contributed to it, I think you're kidding yourself.

Three words

Tall

Poppy

Syndrome

[ledge]

Will he be found dead of a drug overdose, i wonder now his AFL drive is finished.
Its sad to say it I know, but he would definitely be on a downer now, and his stupid manager didnt help at all.

[Mofra]

Will he be found dead of a drug overdose, i wonder now his AFL drive is finished.
Its sad to say it I know, but he would definitely be on a downer now, and his stupid manager didnt help at all.
I wouldn't go that far, given blow was rumoured to be his drug of choice. Even the most powder hungry freaks known to nature (such as Robert Palmer) survived into their late 40s whilst burning their nostrils on a daily basis.

That is if he relapses, which isn't a given.

[Twodogs]

?
We have gone through this a thousand times. There is no doubt he played with so much confidence, self belief and invincibilty that made him a better player. If you don't believe the drugs contributed to it, I think you're kidding yourself.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I dont think any of what you have said is right. Ice is going to stop you from gut running, not the other way around. Ben has plenty of confidence and self belief-as someone pointed out that's what champions have in spades-and Ben's a champion.


There's Ben the footballer and the other Ben. The other Ben is unlike Ben the footballer. He's not confident in himself or the people around him and that's why he supplements his existance with substances. Ben the footballer is a very different beast, confident, swaggering and almost the opposite to the other Ben. Ben the footballer doesnt need drugs to cope, in fact drugs are almost an anethema to him. The other Ben cant survive without drugs and that's where his problem lies.


You really have a lot to learn about drugs and addiction. It's nowhere near and black and white or simplistic as "Ben takes substance in order to make him play better".

[ledge]

I in no way claim to be a drug expert but tend to think you are both right, Ben has 2 personalities, a public one and a private one as we all do.

But drugs do put you on a high thats why you take them isnt it?

So if Ben was on a high during games it does improve your game, not as in skills wise but confidence wise, thinking you are unbeatable, its not like it improves your body its psychological which is a big part for football players, confidence.

Yes footballers are confident especially at AFL level or they wouldnt be there, but its that extra 10% he may have got from taking drugs that is wrong, apart from the fact of doing his body and mind harm in the end, with which every employer is responsible for to a point.

The AFL really had no choice but to ban him, as in 10 years down the track he probably could have sued them by saying oh i was on drugs and the AFL did nothing there by encouraging it or turning a blind eye.
I bet the AFL are relieved he didnt get picked up, its not an affair they or anyone want to have to deal with if they can avoid it.

The AFL or a club are an employer just the same as any industry, as i work in a manufacturing environment i would think the laws fall the same as the AFL you must try and help them but if they dont respond to all the rules of rehab they get sacked.
Ben has done things during his rehab 99% of employers would not except.
Thats the cold hard facts.
Personally i dont know how even a VFL club could look at him, remember most AFL clubs are there too, if they didnt want him at their club they certainly wont want him in their club at VFL level either.

[Twodogs]

But drugs do put you on a high thats why you take them isnt it?



Most people get a high but not addicts, not after a while anyway. For addicts it's more about maintaining and feeling 'normal' than any beneficial effect or altered state of counciousness.




The AFL or a club are an employer just the same as any industry, as i work in a manufacturing environment i would think the laws fall the same as the AFL you must try and help them but if they dont respond to all the rules of rehab they get sacked.
Ben has done things during his rehab 99% of employers would not except.
Thats the cold hard facts.





The AFL did allow him to play-it's the clubs who didnt take the chance to draft him.


But you make an interesting point in regards to Duty Of Care. What are Ben's and, by extension, the club he plays for responsiblities in this matter? If Ben joined a club and got antother player addicted to drugs or passed on disease to another player then would he liable?

[ledge]

Its an interesting subject, so if they werent performance enhancing were they possibly making him not play as good as he could?

[Twodogs]

Its an interesting subject, so if they werent performance enhancing were they possibly making him not play as good as he could?



That's my opinion. I cant see any circumstance where a stimulant would be of any overall benefit to an athlete who relies on outrunning the other bloke. Ice, speed, coke and all the others would put the body under such distress that it could be nothing but destructive.


IMO we shouldnt be asking "How much better did it make him" but "How much better could he have been if he wasnt an addict"

[mighty_west]

I don't deny that , I just believe a major part came from what he was on.

But how would you know when EXACTLY he was on the gear? and wouldn't something like Ice actually take away from your performance rather than enhance it?

[bornadog]

Ben came out and admitted he was on drugs, it was a cry for help. He knew he shouldn't have taken things like ice, but he did (for whatever reason).

I admire him for trying to get his life back in order. Unfortunatelty he is 30 years old, has played 7 games in two years, so you wonder if he can come back at the same level he once played. So, its a risk for clubs.

I still think he will be picked up in the PSD.

[Scraggers]

But how would you know when EXACTLY he was on the gear? and wouldn't something like Ice actually take away from your performance rather than enhance it?

There is no way the drugs he was taking were performance enhancing ... but they were mood enhancing.

I agree with ES in that Ben would have been playing with a high degree of invincibility

[bornadog]

There is no way the drugs he was taking were performance enhancing ... but they were mood enhancing.

I agree with ES in that Ben would have been playing with a high degree of invincibility

Unless we have some experience with this sort of thing, I don't think we can comment.

[mighty_west]

There is no way the drugs he was taking were performance enhancing ... but they were mood enhancing.

I agree with ES in that Ben would have been playing with a high degree of invincibility

That mood & confidence & self belief & high degree of invincibility being enhanced is still improving your performance though isn't it, therefor enhancing your overall performance?

I would have thought perhaps it may have efected his reflexes, skills, thoughts etc, but then, ive never even thought of going anywhere near that shit, thats why i'm asking questions.

[ledge]

That mood & confidence & self belief & high degree of invincibility being enhanced is still improving your performance though isn't it, therefor enhancing your overall performance?

I would have thought perhaps it may have efected his reflexes, skills, thoughts etc, but then, ive never even thought of going anywhere near that shit, thats why i'm asking questions.

I tend to have same thoughts.

[The Underdog]

That mood & confidence & self belief & high degree of invincibility being enhanced is still improving your performance though isn't it, therefor enhancing your overall performance?

I would have thought perhaps it may have efected his reflexes, skills, thoughts etc, but then, ive never even thought of going anywhere near that shit, thats why i'm asking questions.

Along with the paranoia, the mood swings and the dehydration among a myriad of other effects. Admittedly when I've done any of that stuff it's usually been along with drinking, and I ain't no top level ath-er-lete but I can't imagine doing coke or speed and then trying to play football. Coke wears off after about 15 minutes and then you just want more. I've tried to do my job on both drugs (back in the distant past) and it made me a lot worse at it in both cases. It's also hard to get anything done when you're far too busy talking complete rubbish at 100km's an hour.

In saying that, this is at least the 3rd time this discussion has happened and just like a conversation on drugs it goes around and around until we end up nowhere but convinced that whatever we said was genius. We probably don't need to go there again.

[ledge]

Well actually i started this thread as more a where to now for Ben, who even outside AFL would touch him, considering what he has done and on a personal note, its got to have made a negative impact on him. Will he go downhill more now?

[mighty_west]

In saying that, this is at least the 3rd time this discussion has happened and just like a conversation on drugs it goes around and around until we end up nowhere but convinced that whatever we said was genius. We probably don't need to go there again.

Thats why i for one would never make outlandish statements about something i have no idea about, people just like to assume things off their own bat when they clearly have no clue either.

Unfortunatly you have been through that, but fortunatly you are here to tell the story!

[The Underdog]

Well actually i started this thread as more a where to now for Ben, who even outside AFL would touch him, considering what he has done and on a personal note, its got to have made a negative impact on him. Will he go downhill more now?

Sorry ledge wasn't having a go, but it's veered off into territory that's been done to death on this site already. I'm as guilty as the rest.
It's up to Ben how he deals with it. He's never really seemed to show a genuine remorse, in public at least for how his actions have impacted on others. It's highly likely that he'll go back to being a partyboy and slide back into the drugs. I certainly can't envision him going back and playing WAFL or VFL and he's not really qualified to do much else.

[The Underdog]

Thats why i for one would never make outlandish statements about something i have no idea about, people just like to assume things off their own bat when they clearly have no clue either.

Unfortunatly you have been through that, but fortunatly you are here to tell the story!

Don't get me wrong, I've never had trouble with drugs, I've dabbled but not to the degree many others have.

[Scraggers]

Well actually i started this thread as more a where to now for Ben, who even outside AFL would touch him, considering what he has done and on a personal note, its got to have made a negative impact on him. Will he go downhill more now?

I hope he gets another shot at AFL level, I think he is a sensational footballer who still has a lot to offer the game ... unfortunately though, after the draft and teams publicly saying they wont touch him, I doubt he will !!!

Perth F.C. and East Fremantle F.C. are appearantly vying for his signature over here for the 2009 season, so maybe he wont be lost to footy altogether

[LostDoggy]

Three words

Tall

Poppy

Syndrome
?
Bit hard to cut him down now when he was sent to gutter through his own actions.

Better off calling it cheaters syndrome.

[LostDoggy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I dont think any of what you have said is right. Ice is going to stop you from gut running, not the other way around. Ben has plenty of confidence and self belief-as someone pointed out that's what champions have in spades-and Ben's a champion.


There's Ben the footballer and the other Ben. The other Ben is unlike Ben the footballer. He's not confident in himself or the people around him and that's why he supplements his existance with substances. Ben the footballer is a very different beast, confident, swaggering and almost the opposite to the other Ben. Ben the footballer doesnt need drugs to cope, in fact drugs are almost an anethema to him. The other Ben cant survive without drugs and that's where his problem lies.


You really have a lot to learn about drugs and addiction. It's nowhere near and black and white or simplistic as "Ben takes substance in order to make him play better".

I'm not answering this because we have gone over this before in another thread. You're wrong.

[LostDoggy]

There is no way the drugs he was taking were performance enhancing ... but they were mood enhancing.

I agree with ES in that Ben would have been playing with a high degree of invincibility
Thanks but its not just mood enhancing.
I don't really want to go over this again as its all in the original Cousin's thread.

[westdog54]

?
Bit hard to cut him down now when he was sent to gutter through his own actions.

Better off calling it cheaters syndrome.

You don't even realise how pathetic and stupid your argument is do you?

He played with confidence and self-belief, he must have used drugs to get that way.

Based on that, Michael Voss, James Hird, Wayne Carey, Nathan Buckley and Chris Judd were all drug users as well.

You say we've been over this before. You know what Ernie? You're full of crap. Your idea of us going over this is you saying "You're wrong" and thinking that that is the end of it.

What you haven't faced up to is the fact that the only knowledge you have about drugs and addiction is what you've seen and read in the media, yet you have no first hand knowledge of the subject whatsoever.

If Ben was on drugs during any of his matches (and I'm not willing to believe for a second that he was never drug tested on match day or one day either side of a match) then he didn't have the protection of three strikes.

You simply see what's written in the papers and shown on TV, information that is packaged for the purpose of selling newspapers and attracting ratings, and have made up your mind based on that. Its ignorance at its purist and it downright shits me.

[LostDoggy]

You don't even realise how pathetic and stupid your argument is do you?

He played with confidence and self-belief, he must have used drugs to get that way.

Based on that, Michael Voss, James Hird, Wayne Carey, Nathan Buckley and Chris Judd were all drug users as well.
Yes thats what I wrote.:rolleyes:
I said it helped him.


You say we've been over this before. You know what Ernie? You're full of crap. Your idea of us going over this is you saying "You're wrong" and thinking that that is the end of it.
I'll excuse you because obviously you had a long day at work and need a rest.
I said we have gone over this before.


What you haven't faced up to is the fact that the only knowledge you have about drugs and addiction is what you've seen and read in the media, yet you have no first hand knowledge of the subject whatsoever.
First hand knowledge? So you need to on drugs or have tried them to have an opinion on them?


If Ben was on drugs during any of his matches (and I'm not willing to believe for a second that he was never drug tested on match day or one day either side of a match) then he didn't have the protection of three strikes.
:) Its fairly common opinion that the AFL's drug testing policy and routines are a joke.
Again we are going over old ground here. Please refer to original Cousins thread.


You simply see what's written in the papers and shown on TV, information that is packaged for the purpose of selling newspapers and attracting ratings, and have made up your mind based on that. Its ignorance at its purist and it downright shits me.
If it shits you then why respond?

[Mofra]

You don't even realise how pathetic and stupid your argument is do you?

He played with confidence and self-belief, he must have used drugs to get that way.

Based on that, Michael Voss, James Hird, Wayne Carey, Nathan Buckley and Chris Judd were all drug users as well.

You say we've been over this before. You know what Ernie? You're full of crap. Your idea of us going over this is you saying "You're wrong" and thinking that that is the end of it.

What you haven't faced up to is the fact that the only knowledge you have about drugs and addiction is what you've seen and read in the media, yet you have no first hand knowledge of the subject whatsoever.

If Ben was on drugs during any of his matches (and I'm not willing to believe for a second that he was never drug tested on match day or one day either side of a match) then he didn't have the protection of three strikes.

You simply see what's written in the papers and shown on TV, information that is packaged for the purpose of selling newspapers and attracting ratings, and have made up your mind based on that. Its ignorance at its purist and it downright shits me.
1. Why the need to resort to personal insults?

2. I have first hand experience (albeit not with ice), and if you think there is no effect of illicit substances on training or performance, than you need to do a little more research on the subject. I have friends who have used ice and their stories are enough to convince me that, in addition to being a serious drug (IMO worse than heroin) the effects of even intermittent use during a pre-season would give some players an unfair advantage.

[Dancin' Douggy]

IMO If Ben Cousins Hadn't shaved and waxed his entire body before his scheduled hair sample test he would be on St Kilda's list right now.
Simple as that.

[westdog54]

Yes thats what I wrote.:rolleyes:
I said it helped him.
You made a completely unsubstantiated allegation made on media speculation and innuendo.


I'll excuse you because obviously you had a long day at work and need a rest.
I said we have gone over this before.I'm usually at my sharpest at the end of a long day. Your idea of we've gone over it is you preaching and telling us we're wrong.


First hand knowledge? So you need to on drugs or have tried them to have an opinion on them?
Having being on them or having treated someone with them gives you an informed opinion. There's a difference you don't seem to see.

:) Its fairly common opinion that the AFL's drug testing policy and routines are a joke.
Again we are going over old ground here. Please refer to original Cousins thread.
Again, this old ground is just your preaching

If it shits you then why respond?
Because I don't like people posting crap on a forum I frequent.

[ledge]

He is his own worst enemy.

Personally its not just the drug taking that has brought his career to an end, its his actions of avoiding things and also still moving in the wrong circles.

As i originally posted this isnt about the drugs, its about where to now for Ben and will he go down hill from here and be seen in 1-2 years being laid to rest?
Sadly all the things we are hearing or reading in the press are very negative and if true its not beyond the possibillities that he could be.
He obviously still isnt thinking properly and i believe still under the influence.
Things i have read or heard since he has been on an apparent drug rehab
1 He dissappeared from the hospital at one stage
2 He has missed 2 urine tests
3 He did the shave
4 He turned up at a known drug criminals funeral and proceeded to mix with the known criminals.
He was warned not to go and it would harm his chances.

Maybe these are true maybe they arent, but whether they are or not , its been reported and as such would any club recruit someone with these problems, obviously no.
He like us has to make adult decisions, he has made the wrong ones and knew they were wrong.
I think we all know a drug addict somewhere and we all know they are very good charmers and convincing people things is a great trait they have.
But unfortunatley most of it is down and out lies to get what they want.

Has Ben gone that far? I think he has.
I think everyone has done everything they can to help him and bent over backwards but in the end its Ben who must do it.

Once the footy door closes its a huge thing, he has played it since he was 10 i would imagine.
It wont be the team and great mateship there anymore it will be him on his own, with probably the drug merchants circling,"oh dont worry about football mate we are here for you, now take some of this it will make you feel better"
His family i cant feel sorry for enough it must be hell for them.

[bulldogtragic]

Cousins makes bad decisions. Has spent years making them. He is still making them. He will make them again in the future. That's why no-one wants him.

In my humble, he lives so far on the edge and got women, fame, more money than i wll ever see and all the good things - that eventually things caught up with him. Chickens are roosting and i have no problem saying he got what he desrved. In the week or so prior to draft, he shaves his head, waxes his body, complains the tests on him are too harsh (i.e. if i relapse their too harsh - more to the point) and attends the funeral of convicted drug trifficker/importer.

If he had made better decision in the past two weeks alone, he would again be an AFL player. These smaller examples demonstrate whilst he may not have drugs in his system, his poor decision making is still there drugs or not.

You can only lead a horse to water, and if the horse wnats to die from dehydration then so be it. Every person has some, if not all control over their destiny, and Cousins did too. Cousins made poor decisions yet again and he had to live with them. The drugs were a handy ruse, the issue is god-like ego, people he associates with and really bad decision making. Take the drugs out, he is still a nightmare. And for what it's worth, having spent years physically dealing with ice-addicts, i think playing with that in your system is a masive performance enhancer.

Like Aker and many others here have said, i have no sympathy for a grown man, who knows right from wrong who continually makes bad decisions.

[Go_Dogs]

1. Why the need to resort to personal insults?

2. I have first hand experience (albeit not with ice), and if you think there is no effect of illicit substances on training or performance, than you need to do a little more research on the subject. I have friends who have used ice and their stories are enough to convince me that, in addition to being a serious drug (IMO worse than heroin) the effects of even intermittent use during a pre-season would give some players an unfair advantage.

Could you elaborate for me how a drug such as ice would help elite athletes training? Perhaps maybe pepping them up for a session, I cannot see any effects that would, long-term, benefit a player.

As far as intermittent use, the problem with drugs such as ice, is its almost impossible to use them intermittently.

[bornadog]

As far as intermittent use, the problem with drugs such as ice, is its almost impossible to use them intermittently.

Its almost impossible to get off it once addicted.

[Mofra]

Could you elaborate for me how a drug such as ice would help elite athletes training? Perhaps maybe pepping them up for a session, I cannot see any effects that would, long-term, benefit a player.
Given what I've seen & the stories I've heard, a player could theoretically train for hours longer in a single session than he would have normally - this also fits the "days of rage" without sleeping reported by some users. This is by no means sustainable, as the comedown is said to be so bad that it frightened me off even trying the stuff for life, and I assume that in terms of recovery and rest it would not be much of a help during the season proper.

As I said before, I've never tried it myself so this is purely the word of other users & observers.

[Mofra]

Its almost impossible to get off it once addicted.
As bad (or worse than) heroin, which is saying alot.

[Dancin' Douggy]

As bad (or worse than) heroin, which is saying alot.
Is it worse than footy? Cause man I'm suffering............ I'm dyin' over here!

[LostDoggy]

You made a completely unsubstantiated allegation made on media speculation and innuendo.
I never said it was gospel. Its what I believe and I think a numbers of other believe it too.


I'm usually at my sharpest at the end of a long day. Your idea of we've gone over it is you preaching and telling us we're wrong.
Seems like you are doing a lot of more of the preaching and saying who is wrong than I am.


Having being on them or having treated someone with them gives you an informed opinion. There's a difference you don't seem to see.
Firstly thanks for assuming I haven't been on drugs or treated someone. I suppose my opinion is as worthless as yours then.
I see your point if you've treated someone on a drug addiction and been on drugs, you can tell whether they make it again as an AFL footballer after a year out. Its like the only addiction that provides you with any incite is a hard drug addiction, the rest as meaningless.


Because I don't like people posting crap on a forum I frequent.
Ok from now on, I just agree with you all the time.

[westdog54]

I never said it was gospel. Its what I believe and I think a numbers of other believe it too.
But you're very quick to be smug and dismissive of those who don't agree, so give me a break


Seems like you are doing a lot of more of the preaching and saying who is wrong than I am.
Difference is I am providing arguments. You're simply saying 'You're wrong'.

Firstly thanks for assuming I haven't been on drugs or treated someone. I suppose my opinion is as worthless as yours then.
I see your point if you've treated someone on a drug addiction and been on drugs, you can tell whether they make it again as an AFL footballer after a year out. Its like the only addiction that provides you with any incite is a hard drug addiction, the rest as meaningless.
Some of the lines you've been coming up with tell me you clearly haven't had first hand experience of drugs, I think its a pretty safe assupmtion just quietly

Ok from now on, I just agree with you all the time.

Grow up.

[mighty_west]

Firstly thanks for assuming I haven't been on drugs or treated someone. I suppose my opinion is as worthless as yours then.
I see your point if you've treated someone on a drug addiction and been on drugs, you can tell whether they make it again as an AFL footballer after a year out. Its like the only addiction that provides you with any incite is a hard drug addiction, the rest as meaningless.



Well then, have you been on, or have you treated someone? and if you are strong with what you believe in, what is your experience on this subject?

[bornadog]

http://www.iceaddiction.com/info.htm



Ice Addiction and Information

Methamphetamine/Ice is an addictive stimulant drug that strongly activates certain systems in the brain. Methamphetamine is closely related chemically to amphetamine, but the central nervous system effects from Methamphetamine Ice are much, much greater. Methamphetamine is referred to by many names on the street, such as speed, meth, ice, glass, dukie, crank, bump, crystal and chalk. Methamphetamine hydrochloride, looks like clear chunky crystals resembling ice. This form of meth can be inhaled by smoking with a glass pipe, broken light bulb and/or aluminum foil. Ice smoking tools could also be detected by broken pens, drinking straws, torches and burned residue on paper towels or toilet paper. Ice can also be used through injection, which is the most powerful and deadly from of use.


Health Hazards

Methamphetamine Ice releases high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine, which stimulates brain cells, enhancing mood and body movement. It also appears to have a neuro-toxic effect, damaging brain cells that contain dopamine and serotonin, another neurotransmitter. Over time, Ice appears to cause reduced levels of dopamine, which can result in symptoms like those of Parkinson's disease, a severe movement disorder.
Research going back more than 20 years shows that high doses of Methamphetamine Ice causes damage on neuron cell-endings. Dopamine and serotonin containing neurons do not die after Meth use, but their nerve endings ("terminals") are cut back and re-growth appears to be very limited.
The central nervous system (CNS) actions that result from taking even small amounts of Ice include increased wakefulness, increased physical activity, decreased appetite, increased respiration, high blood pressure and hyperthermia. Other CNS effects include irritability, insomnia, confusion, tremors, convulsions, anxiety, paranoia, and aggressiveness. Hyperthermia and convulsions can result in death.
Methamphetamine Ice also causes increased heart rate, blood pressure and can cause irreversible damage to blood vessels in the brain, producing strokes. Other effects of Ice include respiratory problems, irregular heartbeat, and extreme anorexia. Its use can result in cardiovascular collapse and death.

[LostDoggy]

Thank you michael.
Obviously its fake cos to understand that properly you have to been on hard drugs or treated some one on them.

[westdog54]

Thank you michael.
Obviously its fake cos to understand that properly you have to been on hard drugs or treated some one on them.

And if you disagree with any of it, you're simply wrong because we've been over it before?

[LostDoggy]

And if you disagree with any of it, you're simply wrong because we've been over it before?
Well according to that piece, if you think ice can't have a performing enhancing effect then you are wrong and I have quoted something like that before as well sporting doctors quotes. Just can't find it at the moment.

Its also my belief that the drugs helped his confidence on the field. Why is that belief so annoying to you?

[westdog54]

Well according to that piece, if you think ice can't have a performing enhancing effect then you are wrong and I have quoted something like that before as well sporting doctors quotes. Just can't find it at the moment.
First of all, there is no evidence whatsoever that Ben Cousins has tested positive to Ice, or for that matter that it is the drug he uses. Again, rampant media speculation and innuendo rules the day.


Its also my belief that the drugs helped his confidence on the field. Why is that belief so annoying to you?


He's the son of a Champion player.
He's a pretty darn good player himself.
He won the Rising Star.
He's a multiple All-Australian.


If I've had that going for me my whole career, I'd be pretty bloody confident as well. No need for drugs there.

Are you going to imply that he's taken drugs his whole career, since drugs must have helped him get that self-belief and confidence?

[The Coon Dog]

ES & W54,

Interesting for a while, but you 2 are just going round in circles.

Any chance you'll realise you won't be able to convince each other of the merits of your relative arguments & just agree to disagree or call a truce?

Please.

[KT31]

You don't even realise how pathetic and stupid your argument is do you?

He played with confidence and self-belief, he must have used drugs to get that way.

Based on that, Michael Voss, James Hird, Wayne Carey, Nathan Buckley and Chris Judd were all drug users as well.
Its ignorance at its purist and it downright shits me.

Just like the media you ommited our own Chris Grant.
He was better or just as good as the players you mention for your arguement

[westdog54]

ES & W54,

Interesting for a while, but you 2 are just going round in circles.

Any chance you'll realise you won't be able to convince each other of the merits of your relative arguments & just agree to disagree or call a truce?

Please.

Hell I realised I won't be able to convince Ernie a long time ago. I just feel that when someone posts something I very, very strongly disagree with, I wouldn't be doing myself justice as a contributor to this forum if I let it go unanswered.

[Bulldog4life]

Just like the media you ommited our own Chris Grant.
He was better or just as good as the players you mention for your arguement

Great point. Problem is that on a lot of forums, including this one, people can use popular rhetoric to prove a point...........Chris wasnt in the popular category when it came to comparing him to the champions mentioned, hence the reason why his name did not appear.

[Mofra]

Great point. Problem is that on a lot of forums, including this one, people can use popular rhetoric to prove a point...........Chris wasnt in the popular category when it came to comparing him to the champions mentioned, hence the reason why his name did not appear.

That would be a by product of humility & grace - on and off the field.

[Bulldog4life]

That would be a by product of humility & grace - on and off the field.

Agree. It would be hard to find a more unassuming champion player. His lack of media appearances certainly didn't help his profile either.

[BulldogBelle]

This thread has had quite a few differing viewpoints - which has made some interesting reading, always good to see a debate happening.

anyway..

I was listening this morning on SEN that Ben Cousins wants to meet with Demetriou and Co and with Westcoast about a possible return to the Eagles as a mature aged recruit. Will be interesting to see what comes out of that.

[BulldogBelle]

I just feel that when someone posts something I very, very strongly disagree with, I wouldn't be doing myself justice as a contributor to this forum if I let it go unanswered.

Everyone is entitled to have their say, whilst you have your views on Cousins so has Ernie that is why you both want to put forward your cases. If you feel strongly about it, then debate away just as long it doesn't spill into the personal attack zone.

[ledge]

Apparently Westcoast are not interested in the slightest, so he might be meeting with Demetriou but even if Demetriou said yes, fact is no team wants him.
Probably Nixon trying to save face after his stupid statements about telling other clubs besides St Kilda not to bother looking at him.
Then he starts trying to suck back up to Westcoast.
Dickhead!

[mighty_west]

I wonder how many of our players are managed by Nixon? I know Cordy is....

Although Nixon was nice enough to say that he believed that Ayce was 3-4th best from this draft. [he rated Vickory numero Uno].

[LostDoggy]

First of all, there is no evidence whatsoever that Ben Cousins has tested positive to Ice, or for that matter that it is the drug he uses. Again, rampant media speculation and innuendo rules the day.

Ok after 2 years of speculation Cousins was clean then. Anyday should be sueing WC , the AFL and the media.



Are you going to imply that he's taken drugs his whole career, since drugs must have helped him get that self-belief and confidence?

No thats what you want me to say. I said it helped him at some stage

[LostDoggy]

ES & W54,

Interesting for a while, but you 2 are just going round in circles.

Any chance you'll realise you won't be able to convince each other of the merits of your relative arguments & just agree to disagree or call a truce?

Please.

Excuse me I read this second.

[westdog54]

Ok after 2 years of speculation Cousins was clean then. Anyday should be sueing WC , the AFL and the media.

No thats what you want me to say. I said it helped him at some stage

TCD is right, this is going absoltely nowhere. So, in the interest of preserving a friendship with a damn good bloke, I'll make this post my last word on this issue, on this and any other thread.

Firstly, whilst Ben has admitted to abusing drugs, he has not admitted, and there is no other evidence to suggest, that he has taken drugs on matchday, and while debate will rage forever as to whether he was or not, such debate is, and will remain, speculation. Nothing more or less.

Secondly, I owe an apology to Ledge. He started an excellent discussion topic and I allowed my passionate feelings on this subject to derail the discussion. So I'll say this:

Amongst all the discussion about drug use, allegations of cheating, suspensions, drug tests, head shaves, non-drafting and anything and everything else that has accompanied this soap opera in its life, once we strip all that away we're left with one outcome. A career that has included winning the rising star, 4 best and fairests, 6 All-Australian appearances, an AFLPA MVP award, a premiership, a Brownlow Medal and 5 years as captain of his club; that career now lies in tatters. Regardless of the circumstances that led to this conclusion, that in itself is a tragedy, and I can only hope that Ben has enough sense left now to surround himself with family and friends, and give himself every opportunity to keep fighting the battle going on inside him.

One more bit of food for thought. If my son is ever good enough to go into the AFL draft, I'll be making sure that Ricky Nixon doesn't get within cooee of him. The man is a poison.

[LostDoggy]

Firstly, whilst Ben has admitted to abusing drugs, he has not admitted, and there is no other evidence to suggest, that he has taken drugs on matchday, and while debate will rage forever as to whether he was or not, such debate is, and will remain, speculation. Nothing more or less.

I'm not what the point is here. These substances have long term effects, whether or not he took them on matchday or not is irrelevent.
Not being caught on matchday, in season or out of season is more to do with AFL's BS policies and routines.

[Twodogs]

I'm not what the point is here. These substances have long term effects, whether or not he took them on matchday or not is irrelevent.
Not being caught on matchday, in season or out of season is more to do with AFL's BS policies and routines.



Matchday and non match day testing are vital components of the AFLs drug policy. It's helps ID the problem users and that's what makes it a better system than any other drug policy adopted by any other sporting body in the World. The simplest and easiest thing would to agree with the great unwashed and just to 'punish' the offenders(heh-like they dont punish themselves). The AFLs policy goes far beyond that and attempts to help before it's too late.

[ledge]

Westdog, no need to apologise , there is 3 pages of discussion on this, as long as we dont abuse each other its fine, my thread was not meant as a drug topic but as a where to now.
It is a huge issue though the drugs part of it and of course it was going to come up.
In the end only Ben knows the truth and i agree totally on Nixon, he is one very scary manager, i have to ask why do players or clubs even talk to him?
Passion= discussion and debate, thats why this site was created i guess.
As long as we can all get together and have a beer after the topic alls good.
(like the old footy days after a game)

[Mantis]

Little rumour I heard this morning was that St.Kilda were very keen to go, but backed down after Ben went to the funeral of the bikie member a few week's back.

They (St.Kilda) had hoped that Ben had cut all his ties with that part of his past life.

[bulldogtragic]

Little rumour I heard this morning was that St.Kilda were very keen to go, but backed down after Ben went to the funeral of the bikie member a few week's back.

They (St.Kilda) had hoped that Ben had cut all his ties with that part of his past life.
Must be doing the rounds, I heard that too from a pretty reliable source.

[ledge]

It was not so much he went to the funeral (Although they preferred he didnt go and tried to inform him in his best interests not to)it was the fact he was mingling with the wrong ones at the funeral.
I think i read it in the Hun the day after the funeral.