For once I agree with Eddie McGuire

[bulldogtragic]

His comments today regarding Richmond I think were spot on:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24797429-19771,00.html


It stinks of manipulation, opportunism and the abuse of sympathy towards a player in masking their alterior motives. If they want cousins they have got him with pick 6. I hope there are enough clubs that are not emotionally blackmailed into supporting Richmond. They have had a significant time in which to make things happen, and their actions deserve not to be rewarded.

[Happy Days]

His comments today regarding Richmond I think were spot on:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24797429-19771,00.html


It stinks of manipulation, opportunism and the abuse of sympathy towards a player in masking their alterior motives. If they want cousins they have got him with pick 6. I hope there are enough clubs that are not emotionally blackmailed into supporting Richmond. They have had a significant time in which to make things happen, and their actions deserve not to be rewarded.

Agree totally. If the AFL allows this to happen, then we might as well claim the four points after a loss, as it is no less against the rules.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yep. Agree. Take him by all means.............. with pick six.

[LostDoggy]

His comments today regarding Richmond I think were spot on:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24797429-19771,00.html


It stinks of manipulation, opportunism and the abuse of sympathy towards a player in masking their alterior motives. If they want cousins they have got him with pick 6. I hope there are enough clubs that are not emotionally blackmailed into supporting Richmond. They have had a significant time in which to make things happen, and their actions deserve not to be rewarded.

You really think that is what Richmond are doing?
pretty strong words.

Stuff Eddie! Conflict of interest again President or Journo the man is a disgrace!
He just just spewin he didnt think of it. Rfc are exploring a special circumstances situation as did Essendon with Rama.

Let the commission decide not Eddie Gorbachaov! Its not his decision to make.
It's just Eddie's opinion or judgement just as it was when he decide to make investments that lost them $8million! LOL!

Polak does have brain damage he may never play again.
Why should Richmond be 1 man down this year. i'd like to think we would think to do the same if it were one of our boys.

[The Coon Dog]

Polak does have brain damage he may never play again.
Why should Richmond be 1 man down this year. i'd like to think we would think to do the same if it were one of our boys.

Then why not make this application prior to the National Draft so everybody knew where they all stood?

Stuff Richmond, I hope it backfires & if they do get him it blows up in their manipulative little faces!!

[LostDoggy]

Then why not make this application prior to the National Draft so everybody knew where they all stood?

Stuff Richmond, I hope it backfires & if they do get him it blows up in their manipulative little faces!!

I don't get it?
What is the fuss of doing it before the draft no team wanted him they had their chance just like we did.
Would any team have taken him only if they thought rfc were going to take him?

Is the whole world gone cynical or am i naive to what is going on?

Polak was training upto this week Rfc were giving him every chance. he is a key position player they would like to have fit & well i reckon.

[The Coon Dog]

I don't get it?
What is the fuss of doing it before the draft no team wanted him they had their chance just like we did.
Would any team have taken him only if they thought rfc were going to take him?

Is the whole world gone cynical or am i naive to what is going on?

Polak was training upto this week Rfc were giving him every chance. he is a key position player they would like to have fit & well i reckon.

Richmond already have a pick in the Pre Season Draft. If they want Ben Cousins, then by all means use that pick to draft him.

They brought Polak into the equation to garner sympathy. It's a typical cynical attempt by Richmond who want to have their cake & be able to eat it too.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Out of topic - TCD can you check your PM's.

On topic, it should be a non issue as already discussed. If they want him, fine - but use Pick 6 and don't try and manipulate the system.

[BulldogBelle]

I read the article in the HS today, I can understand where Eddie is coming from - and he is entitled to his opinion.

If Richmond get the go ahead from the AFL to place Polak on the rookie list so as to obtain another pick to draft Cousins then so be it - Cuz will get another chance to resurrect his career. I wish him well.

[GVGjr]

I loathed Eddie for a number of years but have a new found respect for him with what he has done for the Pies and even the assistance he has given us. I'm not sure that he has got this issue 100% right though.

If Cousins wants to play and there is a club wanting to take that risk (and it is a big one) I would have thought that we should give that every opportunity to happen. I know the Tigers are treading a dangerous line of manipulating things and they are playing the sympathy card with the Polak issue but a rehabbed Cousins would be a great thing for the game.

Not sure why the Tigers are being so bloody minded on having to draft a youngster with the first pick but I suspect that if they don't get what they want with Polak they will still draft Cousins anyway.

[Scraggers]

Richmond's audacity in comparing the Rama situation at Essendon to that of Polak's is the real low blow here ...

Rama was struck down by a disease that was out of his control ... he fought it and won

Polak was drunk and hit by a tram ... and whilst I wish no ill-will on him, it was his actions that night that put him in that situation.

Now I reiterate, I wish no ill-will on Polak, in fact I really hope Polak recovers and plays good footy again, but you can't compare the two cases !!


Therefore, if Richmond want Cousins, use pick 6 !!

[Mantis]

Richmond's audacity in comparing the Rama situation at Essendon to that of Polak's is the real low blow here ...

Rama was struck down by a disease that was out of his control ... he fought it and won

Polak was drunk and hit by a tram ... and whilst I wish no ill-will on him, it was his actions that night that put him in that situation.

Now I reiterate, I wish no ill-will on Polak, in fact I really hope Polak recovers and plays good footy again, but you can't compare the two cases !!

Therefore, if Richmond want Cousins, use pick 6 !!

Are you sure this is correct?

The reports I have heard in the media have reported that Polak was sober when struck by the tram.

[GVGjr]

Are you sure this is correct?

The reports I have heard in the media have reported that Polak was sober when struck by the tram.


I heard the same.

[Desipura]

Whilst Eddie's no 1 priority is Collingwood, he has done alot of work in keeping Vic clubs afloat.
If it was not for him, its fair to say we would not have had Leaseplan as a mjor sponsor.

[Sockeye Salmon]

There is one major reason the two cases are different.

Ramanaskas was out of contract and would have been delisted.

Polak is still on contract next year so he will be getting paid regardless. How will transferring him to a different list help his recovery?

All putting Polak on the mature rookie list will do is give Richmond salary cap relief.

[Bulldog Revolution]

If the Tiges want him they should claim him with the pick they have

It's that straightforward. Richmond should not get salary cap relief to get him as Ben should be playing for minimum wage

[strebla]

Rodney Eade said on the Bulldogs site what about a player injured and out for the year there is no compensation the Polak matter is the same as Darcy doing his knee before X-mas

[Twodogs]

There is one major reason the two cases are different.

Ramanaskas was out of contract and would have been delisted.

Polak is still on contract next year so he will be getting paid regardless. How will transferring him to a different list help his recovery?

All putting Polak on the mature rookie list will do is give Richmond salary cap relief.




Exactly.



This is a cynical ploy by Richmond and I hope the AFL say no.

[LostDoggy]

Exactly.



This is a cynical ploy by Richmond and I hope the AFL say no.

The AFL has to say no. It is an obvious manipulation of the rules aimed at topping up the tigers list without the expense of an early pick.

Clubs are penalised for trying to find ways around the salary cap, why should the draft be any different.

[Desipura]

There is one major reason the two cases are different.

Ramanaskas was out of contract and would have been delisted.

Polak is still on contract next year so he will be getting paid regardless. How will transferring him to a different list help his recovery?

All putting Polak on the mature rookie list will do is give Richmond salary cap relief.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why would Essendon get permission to do it with Ramanaskas and not Richmond with Polak? SS
Sockeye, so do you still believe I quote "the AFL should either have a rule allowing non-football-related illness/accidents or not."
Interested in your response

[Sockeye Salmon]

Sockeye, so do you still believe I quote "the AFL should either have a rule allowing non-football-related illness/accidents or not."
Interested in your response

Personally, I think not, but I don't really care that much. What I do want is a clear rule that everyone has to follow (whether the media want to carry on about their latest topic of the week or not).

[The Coon Dog]

RICHMOND'S Ben Cousins bid has hit a hurdle, with the AFL refusing a request to placing Graham Polak on the rookie list.

The Tigers had asked the AFL Commission for dispensation to place Polak on the rookie list, which would have given them an extra pick in tomorrow's pre-season draft, and given them more salary cap space.

Now, if the Tigers still want Cousins, they will have to use their one pick in the PSD - No.6 - to take Cousins, breaking the heart of one of the young players hoping to be picked up.

It is believed the Richmond board will meet tonight to consider their options.

Tigers president Gary March said on Friday that the club has committed to recruiting a younger player tomorrow with their existing pick.

March said the club would only make a move for Cousins if the AFL Commission gave their approval to Polak being re-classified as a mature-aged rookie.

Polak is recovering from serious head injuries suffered when he was hit by a tram mid-way through last season.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou said the Commission had refused Richmond's application because clubs were able to place players in Polak's situaton on the long-term injury list and elevate another player from the rookie list for the season.

"The AFL player rules already deal with this situation whereby a player is unable to play for an extended period of time. In that situation, a club is able to place a player on the long-term injury list and upgrade a rookie list player to take his place," he said

"The commission also took into account the views of the clubs and the timing of the submission. "

Several clubs had expressed their opposition to the timing of Richmond's move to place Polak to the rookie list.

But there has been widespread goodwill in the football community to the 30-year-old Cousins being given a chance to rebuild his career.

The AFL deregistered him late last year for bringing the game into disrepute and last month gave the 2005 Brownlow medallist permission to play again.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24802091-661,00.html

[LostDoggy]

Yes, it's hit a real hurdle and they are called "The Rules"

[LostDoggy]

Okay, is there something I'm missing here?

Can't Richmond just draft Cousins with their pre-season pick, recruit to their rookie list the kid they've previously committed to with their pre-season pick, put Polak on the long-term injury list, and elevate the kid (or any other rookie) to their playing list?

Or is simple logic too much to ask from this confused game and its befuddled stakeholders (clubs, commissions, media...). It's like no one in football actually stops to think -- this game is addicted to low-brow, sad, fact-free, B-grade opinionated drama over anything of rational substance. Boy is AFL really starting to give me the shits. This stuff used to be just annoying, but it's just absolute bollocks now.

[GVGjr]

Okay, is there something I'm missing here?

Can't Richmond just draft Cousins with their pre-season pick, recruit to their rookie list the kid they've previously committed to with their pre-season pick, put Polak on the long-term injury list, and elevate the kid (or any other rookie) to their playing list?

Or is simple logic too much to ask from this confused game and its befuddled stakeholders (clubs, commissions, media...). It's like no one actually stops to think -- this game is addicted to low-brow, sad, fact-free, B-grade opinionated drama over anything of rational substance. Boy is AFL really starting to give me the shits. This stuff used to be just annoying, but it's just absolute bollocks now.

I think they gave a commitment to David Gourdis before Cousins convinced them that he was worth a punt.

[LostDoggy]

Hi Gary.

Why can't they just recruit Gourdis to the rookie list, put Polak on the long-term injury list, then elevate Gourdis from the rookie list?

[The Coon Dog]

Hi Gary.

Why can't they just recruit Gourdis to the rookie list, put Polak on the long-term injury list, then elevate Gourdis from the rookie list?

Because that's too much like common sense. ;)

[GVGjr]

Hi Gary.

Why can't they just recruit Gourdis to the rookie list, put Polak on the long-term injury list, then elevate Gourdis from the rookie list?

Because they believe that Freo will select him before their rookie draft pick plus they gave a commitment that he would be added to the senior list.

[The Coon Dog]

Because they believe that Freo will select him before their rookie draft pick plus they gave a commitment that he would be added to the senior list.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Richmond a) delist Gourdis & b) pass on their last pick in the National Draft??

[azabob]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Richmond a) delist Gourdis & b) pass on their last pick in the National Draft??

Yep they certainly did.

[GVGjr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Richmond a) delist Gourdis & b) pass on their last pick in the National Draft??

Sure did but in between then and now they committed to select him again before Cousins became a viable option.
Passing on the last pick isn't a bad idea but it does show that they were clearly uncertain of what they actually wanted to do.

[GVGjr]

I'd love to see all the clubs say that they wouldn't draft Gourdis until the 2nd round of the rookie draft if he was still available to really put the acid test on the Tigers to select Cousins.

[LostDoggy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Richmond a) delist Gourdis & b) pass on their last pick in the National Draft??

So, it's basically an entire sh*thole of their own doing -- delisting a kid and then committing to re-recruiting him through the pre-season draft and then changing their mind because of circumstances (Cousins) and because another club wants to draft the kid they've delisted and wasting a commission's time and money and yards of newsprint to untangle their own twisted entrails is typical of the kind of absolute shamozzle of a thinking process they have down at Tigerland.

You make your bed, you LIE in it. If Freo get Gourdis it's because Richmond delisted him in the first place when they didn't have to. You can't make stupid decisions and then ask Big Brother to dig you out of a hole. Suck eggs, Wallet.

[westdog54]

So, it's basically an entire sh*thole of their own doing -- delisting a kid and then committing to re-recruiting him through the pre-season draft and then changing their mind because of circumstances (Cousins) and because another club wants to draft the kid they've delisted and wasting a commission's time and money and yards of newsprint to untangle their own twisted entrails is typical of the kind of absolute shamozzle of a thinking process they have down at Tigerland.

You make your bed, you LIE in it. If Freo get Gourdis it's because Richmond delisted him in the first place when they didn't have to. You can't make stupid decisions and then ask Big Brother to dig you out of a hole. Suck eggs, Wallet.

Not a lot in here I disagree with.

Richmond have stuffed around trying to figure out what to do, and it has blown up in their faces. Its now their call. Do they roll the dice and see if Gourdis falls through to the Rookie list, or do they pass up an All Australian, Brownlow Medallist and Premiership player.

[bulldogtragic]

Richmond wallowing in their own excrament.

Is their anything better?

[aker39]

Okay, is there something I'm missing here?




Yes.

Salary Cap relief.

If Polak was put on the rookie list, his $300,000 salary would be outside the salary cap, leaving Richmond $420,000 to spend on 2 players.

As it stands now, Richmond can only has $120,000 left in its cap. If Cousins wants to play, he'll be playing for $120,000 in 2009 and Gourdis will be playing for $40,000.

Can someone please answer this question. When a rookie is promoted to the senior list when another player is put on the long term injury list (say Polak), does that rookies new salary get included in the cap.

[G-Mo77]

What would have happened with Polak's salary had he been rookied? Would it have counted? I really think the whole thing was to do with TPP. I don't think they can afford Cousins now. I could be wrong but I did here something about them being close to the cap during trade week.

[aker39]

What would have happened with Polak's salary had he been rookied? Would it have counted? I really think the whole thing was to do with TPP. I don't think they can afford Cousins now. I could be wrong but I did here something about them being close to the cap during trade week.

Polaks salary would have been outside the cap.

[The Underdog]

Yes.

Salary Cap relief.

If Polak was put on the rookie list, his $300,000 salary would be outside the salary cap, leaving Richmond $420,000 to spend on 2 players.

As it stands now, Richmond can only has $120,000 left in its cap. If Cousins wants to play, he'll be playing for $120,000 in 2009 and Gourdis will be playing for $40,000.

Can someone please answer this question. When a rookie is promoted to the senior list when another player is put on the long term injury list (say Polak), does that rookies new salary get included in the cap.

Aren't players given a 2 year contract when they are drafted? Therefore wouldn't Gourdis' salary already count against this years cap even if he has been delisted. They'd have to pay him either way as this would be his 2nd year on the list. Unless my understanding of the situation is wrong, they'd be paying him the same regardless of if he was redrafted, rookied or neither.

[The Coon Dog]

Richmond drafted Ben Cousins with pick 6 in the PSD.

[G-Mo77]

So obviuously they had no problems fitting him in under the TPP. Very surprised about this pick. I look forward to hearing all the Richmond supporters talking their team up only to finish outside of the 8 again.

[Sedat]

Interesting that the great humanitarians at Tigerland dumped Gourdis after one year (whose is rumoured to suffer from depression, which was allegedly a contributing factor to him being dumped from the senior list), then they allegedly promised to pick him up again with PSD pick 6, but have now taken a back flip and used that pick on Cousins. It's all about welfare at Punt Rd, Wallace's welfare.

[LostDoggy]

Makes good radio anyway. Something to talk about this time of year.

[Twodogs]

So Cousins is playing for beer tickets?

[LostDoggy]

Rookie Draft is underway
Pick 1- Jordan McKenzie (dees)
Pick 2 Liam Bedford (eagles)
Pick 3- Casey Sibosado (freo)

[LostDoggy]

Pick 6- Jeffery Garlett (Carlton). First cousin of Buddy. Wait for the Carlton supporters