Jordan Roughead

[GVGjr]

Colin Wisbey has given permission for this to be displayed

Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)

200/92 mid-age right foot (has other foot if necessary) ruck

*STYLE LIKE: Charman

*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 13

*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Definite. Ready year 2.

- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 3-5.

*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / LM / M

*TRADEMARK:

- Centre-bounce palm-out down the throat of a team-mate in a position to effect a clean disposal.

*MAIN SELLING POINTS:

- Ruck smarts, skills.
- Vision
- Leap
- Ethic
- Improvement trend / Scope for further improvement
- Decision-making / smarts

*MAIN QUERY:

- Kicking reliability (not a huge issue though).

*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:

- 200cm ruck who only committed to footy fairly recently. An ex basketballer who actually plays an inside game yet brings to the table some useful basketball attributes and smarts. The most impressive ruck skills of any underage ruck in this draft.

- Quite good ethic, can take a grab, smart and usually makes right decisions, mobile (although lacks a little pace), quite good endurance.

- I don't get excited about Jim Stynes-type ruckwork (i.e. statistically win the hit-out but the ball drops at the ruckman's feet, to no-one's advantage). Roughead though is "definite AFL" purely for his frequency of silver service to his mids, at centre bounces especially, regardless of whatever else he brings to the table.

- If my club's main intention was to draft a ruck primarily for ability to do frequent hitouts to genuine advantage, Roughead would be my clear choice ... in a heartbeat. And that's despite my very high regard for 3 other rucks in this draft. And, given that hypothetical drafting priority, I'd use whatever pick was believed necessary to ensure I got my man.

- An encouraging bonus with Roughead is his improvement around the ground. His improvement trend in that aspect is very solid. Averaged only 9d in '07 but improved to 14d in '08. In his last 8 TAC games, he averaged 16d and his quietest game in terms of possessions was 13 (he also had 24d in one of those games). In his previous 16 TAC games, he only got *more* than 13d 4 times. 66% improvement on last year's average and 25% up on his average in the first 1/2 of '08. He's unlikely to have the elite follower ability of Cox but, given time, he will be a more than handy possession-gathering AFL ruck around the ground, perhaps regularly 15-20d a game.

Vickery is the Vic ruck we often associate with mobility and around the ground stuff but Roughead is not all that far behind. Vickery averaged 17d at TAC level and 11d in '08 Champs and Roughead 14d and 7d. In the 2nd half of both their '08 seasons, Vickery averaged a Cox-like 21d, Roughead 16d.

Roughead is no Paul Salmon but he's no duffer around goals either. He is not an "in the ruck or on the bench" type. He is quite capable of a good grab up forward (or a gather and snap). Kicked 11-5 in '08 following 8-2 in '07 and he continues to improve in that area.

RUCKWORK:

- Displays the most intelligent, skilled, mature, effective ruckwork I've seen in an U18 ruck for some time. He doesn't just ruck to a predictable formula as many rucks do. e.g. He varies his positioning and approach at centre bounces. (e.g. Sometimes cleverly pre-positions himself at CB just marginally his side of the line then immediately moves over the line as ball is bounced, allowing him to take "front posn" coming from side - sometimes from the left, sometimes from the right). His ability to tactically think through ruck contest gives him a major advantage over many opponents. A bigger bag of tricks and tactical smarts also means that if an opponent seems to have his measure with one approach, Roughead can seamlessly switch tactics without having to compromise his own capability. At the very least, he keeps the other ruck guessing.

- A ruck's tap-outs with hurt factor to a targeted team-mate are most potent at CB's and that's Roughhead's biggest differential strength compared to other rucks in this draft but he is also very efficient at non-CB ruck contests.

- Excellent awareness of where his teammates are.

- Very big leap and times it extremely well.

- His own clearance work is fairly good and he is now a ruck who sees his job at ruck contests as not over until the ball is cleared from the area. I really value that.

- Usually holds his ground but occasionally fails to (and the times I've noticed it fail, it's surprisingly usually been against a short, lighter ruck, not a giant).

- Most of his ruckwork against VM was against McKernan who he beat comfortably but he did also beat Vickery in their limited time in ruck together. On other occasions when they've met, Roughead has had the better of Vickery at CB and they've roughly broken at non-CB. Beat Naitanui "on points" in their contests and beat Redden also (Redden did some nice work himself but Roughead definitely won on the day).

*DISPOSAL:

- Kicking accuracy let him down a bit this year but he does some good kicks. He's certainly not an unco ruck who *has* to do 1m feeds instead of kicking.

- Very reliable by hand. In fairness, many of his feeds are little give-offs typical of a ruck, so I'm not suggesting he's the next Polly Farmer, but some do have good hurt factor and he does display quick hands.

*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:

- Decision-making / smarts, especially vision, are a major strength and perhaps his basketball background comes to the fore here. He thinks through situations very well, he almost routinely looks for options (and usually makes the right choice) and he often shows excellent vision. He does some really clever things and displays quick thinking.

*HANDS:

- Regularly clean. Not just ground balls but his aerial ball control is also very good, even under great pressure.

Ball control (as distinct from ground ball cleanness) is a fairly handy ability in a mid around the ground but inside stoppages is more than handy - it's a really productive attribute to have, given how often the ball is up in the air either from a ruckman's hit-out or from popping up from the hands of whoever gathers the spills. It's something I value in an inside mid but, in a ruckman, it's a gem. Roughead's very adept in this area.

*OVERHEAD MARKING:

- Not yet a feature but he sometimes takes a very good contested grab, either front or behind and usually under great pressure. Took a screamer mid-pack under great pressure against Eastern Ranges in R13 last year - hung in the air.

Usually judges well, attacks his marks. Hands usually good, even under the greatest of pressure..

*ATHLETICISM:

- His DC results were OK but he looked tired by the end of his '08 season so I wouldn't read anything negative into his "fair"endurance results. eg His DC beep was an "OK" 12-07 but he did almost a level better (13-03) at TAC pre-season testing. By comparison, Vickery constantly records beeps in the 11's and Naitanui's beeps have typically been in the 12's. Similarly, Roughead's normal on-field endurance is much better than his DC 3km of 12.23min might suggest.

- Very big leap.

- Pace is "slow midfielder" pace but acceptable for a quality ruck. (His quickest time at '08 DC flatters him a bit). Pace off the mark is sometimes sluggish, sometimes quite good. Very mobile though.

- Seems to be a late physical developer. Has grown about 5cm between early '07 and late '08 and also doesn't have the degree of body hair of some peers. Officially only grown 1cm since early '08 (and measurement diffs of just 1cm are meaningless) but might even still have a fraction more growth left?

- Fairly good at keeping his feet.

- Good reflexes.

- Defensive agility isn't always flash but is passable.

*INTENSITY, ETHIC:

- His intensity isn't uniform but it's generally pretty good. It let him down somewhat in '07 and his coach urged him in at least a couple of games to push back harder and show more intensity. He's still not quite there but has shown significant improvement this year.

Has most of the 1%ers covered. Chases (which some rucks don't). Attacks the spoil. Generally an effective tackler..

- Gets his own ball inside traffic.

- Very coachable. Intelligent kid. Asks questions. Keen to learn.. Team man.

*CONSISTENCY:

- Quite consistent, both game by game and within a game and in effort as well as output.

*AFL VERSATILITY:

- Specialist ruck but as a ruck resting productively in FP, not someone who has to be benched when resting.

*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):

- Although 2 full TAC seasons, is ex-basketballer and a country kid so CSI is a bit above normal.

*SOME STATS:

- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 14 disposals in 15 local games. 0.7 contested marks. 2.5 tackles. Total goals 11-5 .
10 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 4.3 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.2 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.6 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.3 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 6.0 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.3 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 1 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 25%. % change in KI/10K was + 44%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 30%. % change in contested marks was -68%. % change in handball receives was + 49%. % change in tackles was + 68%.

- Stats summary '07 TAC:
Averaged 9 disposals in 18 TAC games. 0.4 contested marks. 1.7 tackles. Total goals 8-2 .
9 kicks per 20 disposals (ranking No.22 for lowest in comp).
Ineffective kicks: 2.7 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 2.6 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.3 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.1 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 4.1 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 8.2 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 29%. % change in KI/10K was -20%. % change in Ineff/20D was -39%. % change in contested marks was + 67%. % change in handball receives was + 68%. % change in tackles was + 51%.

- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 7 disposals and 3.0 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 8). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 8 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 2-4 (3 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 8/14 (5.7 per 10 kicks), incl 1 clangers (0.7 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 2/22 (0.9 per 10 handballs), incl 0 clangers (0.0/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 10/36 (5.6 per 20 disp), incl 1 clangers (0.6 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 7/36 (3.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 11/36 (6.1 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 18/36 (10.0 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (2.2 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 3/36 (1.7 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 5/36 (2.8 per 20 disp), incl 2 CBC (1.1/20 disp) and 1 other BU (0.6/20 disp).
Tackles: 7 (Avg 1.4 per game).
HO: (Tot - cb - oth b/u - t/i): 72-33-15-24, comprising 16-9-5-2 (vs VM) 12-5-4-3 (vs NSW) 14-4-0-10 (vs WA) 14-5-3-6 (vs SA) 16-10-3-3 (vs TAS)

*OTHER STUFF:

- Jarryd's cousin.
- Ex-basketballer.

[FrediKanoute]

Thanks for posting that GVGjr. From the sounds of it we're got ourselves a reasonable selection and here's hoping he can develop into a quality player for us in a couple of years time. Its nice to know that Wiseby who IMO has generally been on the ball with Bulldog selections (ie Walsh, Ray, Griffen) rates Roughead.

[LostDoggy]

I am delighted with that assessment from a man who knows his stuff.

Perfectly timed to take over from Hudson in 2010

[LostDoggy]

Thanks for the post Gaz.

Great write-up by Wiseby, and a lot to like about Roughie from that. Saw Jordan play a bit earlier in the year and had a quiet hope that we would look at him but after committing to Cordy never thought he would last to 31.

Steal.

[Desipura]

Thanks Gaz. I only just got off his website yesterday to see if he had posted about our guys. At that time he had only done a write up on Swift and Sidebottom.

[GVGjr]

Thanks Gaz. I only just got off his website yesterday to see if he had posted about our guys. At that time he had only done a write up on Swift and Sidebottom.

I have been in contact with him to get his permission to post this one in particular.

[Stevo]

Nothing on Cordy or Jones?

Interesting write up and he obviously thinks we got a bargain at pick 31.

[GVGjr]

This is his top 40 selections
Cordy was not included primarily because he was a father/son selection but also he see's him as a somewhat risky prospect.

Wisbey:
Note that this year, I excluded from my top 40 most players I would not draft myself (even some players I expected to get drafted relatively early). This was a year in which I doubt even the top 20 from any club would be very similar to the top 20 from any other club. With the odd exception, most kids I ranked earlier than I expected them to go were there mainly because of attractive decison-making / usage. Some were ranked early based on upside compared to the alternatives. Most of the "touted" draftees who didn't make my top 40 or so were kids I viewed as being dodgy decison-makers / users and/or kids for whom I struggled to identify an AFL role they might be capable of "owning".

1. NAITANUI, Nicholas (2 WCE)
2. SWIFT, Tom (20 WCE)
3. WATTS, Jack (1 MEL)
4. HILL, Stephen (3 FRE)
5. YARRAN, Chris (6 CAR)
6. RICH, Daniel (7 BRI)
7. LYNCH, Tom (13 STK)
8. HARTLETT, Hamish (4 POR)
9. HURLEY, Michael (5 ESS)
10. ZIEBELL, Jack (9 KAN)
11. BLIGHT, Jarrad (45 COL)
12. ROBINSON, Mitch (40 CAR)
13. ROUGHEAD, Jordan (31 WBD)
14. VICKERY, Tyrone (8 RIC)
15. BROADBENT, Matthew (38 POR)
16. SUBAN, Nick (24 FRE)
17. MCKERNAN, Shaun (28 ADE)
18. STRAUSS, James (19 MEL)
19. SHUEY, Luke (18 WCE)
20. BROWN, Mitchell (15 GEE)
21. STILL, Michael (55 ESS)
22. REDDEN, Jarrad (54 POR)
23. SMITH, Alistair (62 STK)
24. SIDEBOTTOM, Steele (11 COL)
25. O'KEEFFE, Rhys (65 CAR)
26. TRENGOVE, Jackson (22 POR)
27. SHIELS, Liam (34 HAW)
28. PEARCE, Clancee (R48 FRE)
29. DAWSON, Glenn (66 POR)
30. ROCKLIFF, Tom (P 5 BRI)
32. HANNEBERY, Dan (30 SYD)
33. JETTA, Neville (51 MEL)
35. SCHOENMAKERS, Ryan (16 HAW)
36. WEADON, Bryn (R31 GEE)
37. SMITH, Ashley (36 WCE)
38. HEYNE, Nicholas (48 STK)
40. CAHILL, Paul (74 STK)

[Bulldog Revolution]

Brilliant stuff CWiseby - thanks, and great organising as always GVG

Roughy sounds a great prospect - and I couldn't help but noting from the image used on the dogs website he certainly looks to be a baby faced young ruck prospect with much scope for physical development

I've also very pleased they went for Roughy after selecting Ayce with the father son - this is the type of list balancing recruitment that we've needed for some time

Sure, all the talls wont all get there, but they needed to get a good core of them on the list and try to develop them

Any Dog couldn't help but be excited by the fact he is from Bulldog stock and we were very keen for his cousin. I'm excited to watch his progress at Willy in 09

[Topdog]

Great work GVG. What exactly is his hurt factor ratings?

Everything I have read about Roughhead has been positive. He actually sounds a bit like Hudson.

[GVGjr]

Great work GVG. What exactly is his hurt factor ratings?

Everything I have read about Roughhead has been positive. He actually sounds a bit like Hudson.

I believe the hurt factors revolve around High Medium, Low Medium, Medium, High and Low etc.
The main things to look for is where a player gets a rating of MH / MH / L which means they are a very good attacking player, strong defensively but can still hurt you and no real downside.

I'll ask him next week for a more definitive answer.

Hopefully Roughead could be used more in the forward line than Hudson has been and thus is the reason why Wiz rates him like Charman.

[Mofra]

His tap work looked brilliant from his youtube videos, nice to hear an experienced talent scout talk his tapwork up as well. A couple of easy centre clearances a quarter should equate to perhaps 4-5 F50 entries and hopefully 2-3 goals per game.

[Topdog]

esp. when they are releasing the CoonDog and Griff for uncontested F50 entries.

[LostDoggy]

Style Like: Charman

Sold right there. Im a fan of big Jamie..solid contributer and would love him at our club a few years back..looking fwd to seeing Jordan out there even more

[lemmon]

This is his top 40 selections
Cordy was not included primarily because he was a father/son selection but also he see's him as a somewhat risky prospect.
Do you know the reason for this, was it related to his injury or just whether he could make the transition to the AFL?

[GVGjr]

Do you know the reason for this, was it related to his injury or just whether he could make the transition to the AFL?

The main part is that he normally doesn't bother to write up father son selections but with Cordy he had some doubts about the ability to add a lot of weight to his frame and what impact that might have if he does.

[The Pie Man]

The main part is that he normally doesn't bother to write up father son selections but with Cordy he had some doubts about the ability to add a lot of weight to his frame and what impact that might have if he does.

If he can't put weight on that will be an issue, but on the limited youtube vision I've seen I'm very confident he'll have a long AFL career. Very fluent

[GVGjr]

Nothing on Cordy or Jones?

Interesting write up and he obviously thinks we got a bargain at pick 31.

Nothing on Jones but whilst Wisbey doesn't normally go to the effort of writing about father son selections he has some question marks about Cordy's ability to fill out physically for either the key forward or ruck positions.

Regarding Roughead, yes he rated him highly as a ruckman who could play forward.

[alwaysadog]

Given that all picks are risks this one sounds like one of the soundest prospects based on the assessment that Wisbey has conducted in incredible detail. He seems like a steal at the number we got him: about time we got in front of the game.

To make it even better he is one of us; suffers from the same mental disease, a Bulldog supporter.

Given a reasonable work ethic when he hits the real world he has what it takes to make a long term career.

Great stuff GVG.

[Dry Rot]

Didn't look out of place at all tonight IMO.

Arguably did more than his famous cousin. :D

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Didn't look out of place at all tonight IMO.

Arguably did more than his famous cousin. :D

Some of his tap work when he got first hands tothe ball was very clever, and backs up Wisbey's comments about his ability to get it to his teams advantage.
Given the length of time Minson has been unavailable due to his recovery from his 'soy poisoning' is Jordan firming as a possibility for Round 1?

[Mantis]

Given the length of time Minson has been unavailable due to his recovery from his 'soy poisoning' is Jordan firming as a possibility for Round 1?

Possibly, but Eade mentioned yesterday that Minson is schedueld to return next week.

[Dry Rot]

Possibly, but Eade mentioned yesterday that Minson is schedueld to return next week.

Were you there tonight? If so, what did you think of Roughead?

[Mantis]

Were you there tonight? If so, what did you think of Roughead?

Yes.

Thought he was quite good. Thought the opposing ruckmen were very poor. Think we might get a better reading of where Roughead is at if we face WC next week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yes.

Thought he was quite good. Thought the opposing ruckmen were very poor. Think we might get a better reading of where Roughead is at if we face WC next week.

Will be tested around the ground no doubt if we play the Eagles.
My only criticism of Roughead (and it's only fair given his inexperience at this level) is his ability to adjust to the speed of the game when he's got the ball. He need to make quicker decisions when he gets the ball in contested situations.
He seems to cover the ground OK enough, but hopefully as his experience and fitness improve he will be able to adjust better.

[stefoid]

Not a bad first game. Agree with the assessment of his tap work, very nice.
We might let everitt run around with nait though, if the illeagles win their game.
thought rougheads scrapping was quite good when the ball was in dispute.

[comrade]

Will be tested around the ground no doubt if we play the Eagles.
My only criticism of Roughead (and it's only fair given his inexperience at this level) is his ability to adjust to the speed of the game when he's got the ball. He need to make quicker decisions when he gets the ball in contested situations.
He seems to cover the ground OK enough, but hopefully as his experience and fitness improve he will be able to adjust better.

To be fair, the kid has only played a handful of games at senior level for Williamstown.

I liked the fact that he toughed it out tonight. He was clearly struggling towards the end but kept making it to contests and gave good service to our mids. The Hawks rucks suck though, really bad.

[Dry Rot]

Seemed to me that he won lots of taps that weren't too our advantage. When both and our midfield play more together, this can only get better.

IIRC, he was the best rated the best pure ruckman of his draft?

Did we get him for Ray?

If so, then :D :D :D :D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Pretty impressive display, albeit against an average ruck division.

Nevertheless I thought he was one of the highlights. His tap work is very good and I remember this being a major strength of his at U18 level. He certainly palms the ball well to a variety of positions.

His work around the ground is what impressed me though. Similar to Hudson in that he's never fully out of a contest and I love this about Roughy. Most young rucks that roll onto the scene look very raw (Naitanui/Kruzer the exceptions) and lightyears off competing. However, Roughead looks like he could definitely play a few games this season and hold his own.

Very exciting prospect for the future.

[Dry Rot]

Pretty impressive display, albeit against an average ruck division.

Nevertheless I thought he was one of the highlights. His tap work is very good and I remember this being a major strength of his at U18 level. He certainly palms the ball well to a variety of positions.

His work around the ground is what impressed me though. Similar to Hudson in that he's never fully out of a contest and I love this about Roughy. Most young rucks that roll onto the scene look very raw (Naitanui/Kruzer the exceptions) and lightyears off competing. However, Roughead looks like he could definitely play a few games this season and hold his own.

Very exciting prospect for the future.

At season's end, would you trade him for Ray? ;)

[Bulldog Revolution]

Seemed to me that he won lots of taps that weren't too our advantage. When both and our midfield play more together, this can only get better.

IIRC, he was the best rated the best pure ruckman of his draft?

Did we get him for Ray?

If so, then :D :D :D :D

People said that about him but Natanui, Vickery and potentially another one or two were all taken before him

And no, he was our second round pick, but not the result of the ray trade

[Dry Rot]

People said that about him but Natanui, Vickery and potentially another one or two were all taken before him

And no, he was our second round pick, but not the result of the ray trade

Who did we get for Ray? Jones?

[The Coon Dog]

People said that about him but Natanui, Vickery and potentially another one or two were all taken before him

And no, he was our second round pick, but not the result of the ray trade

A bit confusing as we traded Ray for pick 31 which we used to select Roughy. On face value it seems we got Roughy for Ray, but you have to remember we had pick 32 also which we used on Liam Jones.

If we didn't do the Ray trade, we still had pick 32 & would have used it on Roughy (unless of course St.Kilda would have snaffled him with pick 31).

[comrade]

I wouldn't trade either of them for Ray. Who needs a light bodied middle man who only handballs backwards?

[Rocco Jones]

I wouldn't trade either of them for Ray. Who needs a light bodied middle man who only handballs backwards?

He kicks backwards as well.

[Dry Rot]

A bit confusing as we traded Ray for pick 31 which we used to select Roughy. On face value it seems we got Roughy for Ray, but you have to remember we had pick 32 also which we used on Liam Jones.

If we didn't do the Ray trade, we still had pick 32 & would have used it on Roughy (unless of course St.Kilda would have snaffled him with pick 31).

Thanks for that.

I have two dear Saints fans friends and I'm an arsehole. I shall claim both Jones and Roughead to these guys as the Ray trade, depending upon form. :)

[stefoid]

Thanks for that.

I have two dear Saints fans friends and I'm an arsehole. I shall claim both Jones and Roughead to these guys as the Ray trade, depending upon form. :)

St kilda would have taken roughead I reckon. I know they all say this, but clayton said roughead wasnt expected to fall that far, and with st kildas ruck division being old, roughead would have been a sound recruit for them, complementing the development of mcevoy.

[chef]

Thanks for that.

I have two dear Saints fans friends and I'm an arsehole. I shall claim both Jones and Roughead to these guys as the Ray trade, depending upon form. :)

:)I do the same to a Richmond supporting mate about Ward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

A bit confusing as we traded Ray for pick 31 which we used to select Roughy. On face value it seems we got Roughy for Ray, but you have to remember we had pick 32 also which we used on Liam Jones.

If we didn't do the Ray trade, we still had pick 32 & would have used it on Roughy (unless of course St.Kilda would have snaffled him with pick 31).

It is a bit confusing - and that explanation doesn't even include the third rounder we gave to St Kilda to get their second rounder - or something like that

All we got from the saints for Ray was an upgrading of a pick

What we can say is it looks like we nailed the two picks in Roughy and Jones

[Mantis]

St kilda would have taken roughead I reckon. I know they all say this, but clayton said roughead wasnt expected to fall that far, and with st kildas ruck division being old, roughead would have been a sound recruit for them, complementing the development of mcevoy.

Possibly.

St.Kilda took Rhys Stanley with their 2nd pick in the draft (#47) so they were on the hunt for a ruckman.

[mighty_west]

Possibly.

St.Kilda took Rhys Stanley with their 2nd pick in the draft (#47) so they were on the hunt for a ruckman.

Maybe they were more genuine with their bid for Cordy so early in the draft afterall, to have develop with Ben McEvoy.

[stefoid]

Possibly.

St.Kilda took Rhys Stanley with their 2nd pick in the draft (#47) so they were on the hunt for a ruckman.

there ya go then.

despite whether it was a pick swap or upgrade, fact is that they could have had roughy at 31, but they got ray instead and we got roughy at 31.

[Doc26]

:)I do the same to a Richmond supporting mate about Ward.

Me too but then it always feels like you're taking advantage of the under privileged :D

[Mofra]

I was surprised at the number of time Roughead got the ball to Boyd last night. Seemed to be quite a bit for a guy who has only a handful of VFL seniors games, and is coming off a shoulder reco so has had an interrupted pre-season. Was blowing hard in the 4th but that will improve the longer the season wears on.

I'll admit I thought we should have kept Skipper for another year as back-up, and based on what I saw last night I was wrong. Roughy can play a role if need be as our no 2 ruck; perhaps not a full season yet, but is adequate injury cover already.

[LostDoggy]

I really like some of the things he did last night and with Minson still not 100% could be a starter in Round 1.

[boydogs]

I was surprised at the number of time Roughead got the ball to Boyd last night. Seemed to be quite a bit for a guy who has only a handful of VFL seniors games, and is coming off a shoulder reco so has had an interrupted pre-season. Was blowing hard in the 4th but that will improve the longer the season wears on.

I'll admit I thought we should have kept Skipper for another year as back-up, and based on what I saw last night I was wrong. Roughy can play a role if need be as our no 2 ruck; perhaps not a full season yet, but is adequate injury cover already.

You might change your tune if Hudson and Minson both go down, but I agree he is ready

[Mofra]

You might change your tune if Hudson and Minson both go down, but I agree he is ready
Of course - but name one side that could handle their no1 & 2 ruck pairing going down?

[boydogs]

Of course - but name one side that could handle their no1 & 2 ruck pairing going down?

Obviously that would hurt every side badly, it's just that we have no 4th ruck at all. Cordy hasn't played and isn't ready, we would have to turn to a non-ruckman such as Everitt, Hahn or Williams. Added to this is the fact our number 1 is over 30, and our number 2 has had no pre-season.

Fingers crossed it's a non-issue, but for the last spot on the list Skipper may have been handy for one more season.

You only need to watch Adelaide v Essendon in the finals last year to see what damage this can do to your side

[LostDoggy]

I agree. He has the makings of a very good ruckman. A young bloke in a mans body, lets hope he develops a good football brain quickly.

[Mantis]

Obviously that would hurt every side badly, it's just that we have no 4th ruck at all. Cordy hasn't played and isn't ready, we would have to turn to a non-ruckman such as Everitt, Hahn or Williams. Added to this is the fact our number 1 is over 30, and our number 2 has had no pre-season.

No is a strong term. Sure he hasn't joined in full training all that often, but he has still been doing some work


Fingers crossed it's a non-issue, but for the last spot on the list Skipper may have been handy for one more season.



Are you a fan of tipping money down the sink?

Skipper played 1 game in 2008 & 0 games in 2009... At some point you have to cut your ties.

[Before I Die]

Possibly.

St.Kilda took Rhys Stanley with their 2nd pick in the draft (#47) so they were on the hunt for a ruckman.

He won the Grand Final sprint and has done a few good things against the Swans so far tonight. I might hold off on the bragging rights for a few weeks yet.

[boydogs]

No is a strong term. Sure he hasn't joined in full training all that often, but he has still been doing some work

I hope that is enough


Are you a fan of tipping money down the sink?

Skipper played 1 game in 2008 & 0 games in 2009... At some point you have to cut your ties.

Is your house or car insured? Is that tipping money down the sink?

Sometimes, there are things you can't afford to lose, that you take out insurance on.
You know you are paying over the odds, and if you had 100 houses you would go without insurance as the insurance payments would be more than the likely cost of repairs, but when you only have 1 that you couldn't afford to repair/rebuild yourself, you pay the insurance to remove the risk.

With Skipper and the rucks, we can't afford for them to go down, and I would have thought that his salary would not be much if on the cusp of being delisted.

I don't understand the argument that you have to cut your ties at some point - if your house is not damaged for a couple of years, do you drop the insurance?

When Skipper was delisted, we would not have known that Minson was going to struggle over the pre-season, but we also may not have known Roughead was going to come along as he has. Wight, probably our 4th or 5th ruck option last year with Roughead, was also delisted, and Hudson was going to be another year older. Skipper had a great year, persisting despite not getting an opportunity, and the need for him on the list as backup was as great if not greater for 2010.

All just my opinion of course. I hope that this doesn't become an issue.

[LostDoggy]

I ...When Skipper was delisted, we would not have known that Minson was going to struggle over the pre-season, but we also may not have known Roughead was going to come along as he has. Wight, probably our 4th or 5th ruck option last year with Roughead, was also delisted, and Hudson was going to be another year older. Skipper had a great year, persisting despite not getting an opportunity, and the need for him on the list as backup was as great if not greater for 2010....

Lists aren't long enough to retain backups like Skipper and it's unfair on the lad, too. He's had the opportunity of rescuing a career at Hawthorn. The club made the correct decision. Risks are inherent in success.

[GVGjr]

When Skipper was delisted, we would not have known that Minson was going to struggle over the pre-season, but we also may not have known Roughead was going to come along as he has. Wight, probably our 4th or 5th ruck option last year with Roughead, was also delisted, and Hudson was going to be another year older. Skipper had a great year, persisting despite not getting an opportunity, and the need for him on the list as backup was as great if not greater for 2010.

All just my opinion of course. I hope that this doesn't become an issue.

It's a fair argument and I think it's a weakness of our list. To only have two ruckman and have to rely on a 2nd year player with a history of shoulder injuries as the support to them is not ideal for a team genuinely contending for the flag.
I was speaking to a mate on Friday night who with the power of hindsight mentioned that if we had have selected Ben McEvoy instead of Jarrad Grant we would have had a far better balanced side.

Getting rid of Skipper I can understand because as D Mitchell says it's better for the player to be given an opportunity elsewhere but not either trading for another back-up or drafting a more mature aged one could come back to haunt us.

[ledge]

I am confident Roughead can do the job, and the more games he plays the better he will get.
Also believe he will take more marks and be more damaging up forward than Hudson if he is the one who gets injured.
As for Minson , Roughead looks more mobile, so we lose one strength but gain another.

[Bulldog Revolution]

If anything it seems to throw more responsibility on to Hudson who looks to be enjoying it and thriving. He doesn't get a lot of attention from our supporters but Huddo has looked v.good pre-season.

Gambling on Grant over McEvoy was Claytons decision to make. McEvoy hasn't set the world on fire, but has done more than Grant. How do you see McEvoy developing GVG?

I guess Eade and co have gambled on the fact that when Minson and Hudson aren't both available that Roughy can play second fiddle. I guess if two of those three go down then we are looking at Cordy, Prato etc.

On Skipper - hard to believe he isn't the Hawks no.1 ruckman - given how pathetic Taylor is most of the time. Taylor is really just a cheap shot specialist.

[mighty_west]

It's a fair argument and I think it's a weakness of our list. To only have two ruckman and have to rely on a 2nd year player with a history of shoulder injuries as the support to them is not ideal for a team genuinely contending for the flag.
I was speaking to a mate on Friday night who with the power of hindsight mentioned that if we had have selected Ben McEvoy instead of Jarrad Grant we would have had a far better balanced side.



On the flipside, had we selected McEvoy, we already knew Cordy was ours, another developing ruckman, i wonder if that would have slightly changed our thought process with that Cordy/Roughead/Jones draft, and not going for Roughead, because we already had Ben developing and were bringing in Cordy as well.

Tommy Lee [noe delisted from the Crows] was also on Claytons radar in that draft.

[Mofra]

Obviously that would hurt every side badly, it's just that we have no 4th ruck at all. Cordy hasn't played and isn't ready, we would have to turn to a non-ruckman such as Everitt, Hahn or Williams. Added to this is the fact our number 1 is over 30, and our number 2 has had no pre-season.
Name one quality 4th ruck - in any team.

Port have one experienced ruckman to choose from so their round 1 2nd ruck will be a debutant! Carton would probably come closest with Sam Jacobs as a 4th ruck (rookie) but that assumes Kreuzer will play as a ruck this year - he wont, he'll be at CHF.
I think you're stretching the level of cover a team is supposed to have - even 3rd ruck options at Brisbane & Essendon developed as CHB types who rucked last year out of necessity. Keeping 5-6 list cloggers on any list as "back-up" will hurt the system of development required to find the players who will make the grade at senior level.

Sometimes you need to take a gamble, as safe football & safe options will not win a flag.
We have gambled on ruck cover & a Bazza Hall to take then next step - if that means using a Prato, Mulligan, Williams or Everitt to pinch hit for one or two games per year if (heaven forbid) Hudson & Minson both go down at the same time, then so be it.

[bornadog]

I hope that is enough



Is your house or car insured? Is that tipping money down the sink?

Sometimes, there are things you can't afford to lose, that you take out insurance on.
You know you are paying over the odds, and if you had 100 houses you would go without insurance as the insurance payments would be more than the likely cost of repairs, but when you only have 1 that you couldn't afford to repair/rebuild yourself, you pay the insurance to remove the risk.

With Skipper and the rucks, we can't afford for them to go down, and I would have thought that his salary would not be much if on the cusp of being delisted.

I don't understand the argument that you have to cut your ties at some point - if your house is not damaged for a couple of years, do you drop the insurance?

When Skipper was delisted, we would not have known that Minson was going to struggle over the pre-season, but we also may not have known Roughead was going to come along as he has. Wight, probably our 4th or 5th ruck option last year with Roughead, was also delisted, and Hudson was going to be another year older. Skipper had a great year, persisting despite not getting an opportunity, and the need for him on the list as backup was as great if not greater for 2010.

All just my opinion of course. I hope that this doesn't become an issue.

If Skipper was any good, we would have kept him. Too many supporters were just hoping he was going to make it in the AFL. He is too short to be a genuine ruckman and too slow to be a KPP.

[Bulldog Joe]

Roughead shows a lot of promise and plenty of supporters seem to believe he already has the body to play.

Against Brisbane he was easily pushed aside, although he competed well. Against Hawthorn he was matched most of the time against a player even more raw than himself.

He looks good and I believe he will be a great acquisition. I would be happy for him to own No. 1 ruck at Willy this year and push for a place based on his form there.

At this stage we need Big Will for his aggression.

[stefoid]

Obviously that would hurt every side badly, it's just that we have no 4th ruck at all. Cordy hasn't played and isn't ready, we would have to turn to a non-ruckman such as Everitt, Hahn or Williams. Added to this is the fact our number 1 is over 30, and our number 2 has had no pre-season.

Fingers crossed it's a non-issue, but for the last spot on the list Skipper may have been handy for one more season.

You only need to watch Adelaide v Essendon in the finals last year to see what damage this can do to your side
Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

[boydogs]

Name one quality 4th ruck - in any team.

Port have one experienced ruckman to choose from so their round 1 2nd ruck will be a debutant! Carton would probably come closest with Sam Jacobs as a 4th ruck (rookie) but that assumes Kreuzer will play as a ruck this year - he wont, he'll be at CHF.
I think you're stretching the level of cover a team is supposed to have - even 3rd ruck options at Brisbane & Essendon developed as CHB types who rucked last year out of necessity. Keeping 5-6 list cloggers on any list as "back-up" will hurt the system of development required to find the players who will make the grade at senior level.

Sometimes you need to take a gamble, as safe football & safe options will not win a flag.
We have gambled on ruck cover & a Bazza Hall to take then next step - if that means using a Prato, Mulligan, Williams or Everitt to pinch hit for one or two games per year if (heaven forbid) Hudson & Minson both go down at the same time, then so be it.

Good post, I am enjoying the debate.
Port have Brogan, Westhoff, Lobbe, Trengove and Cloke. Geelong have Ottens, Blake, West and Simpson, and did also have Mumford. St Kilda have King, Gardiner, Kosi, McEvoy and Stanley. Collingwood have Jolly, Fraser, Wood and L Brown. Brisbane have Clark, Charman, Leuenberger and Brennan. Carlton you mentioned have Kreuzer, Hampson, Warnock and Jacobs. North have McIntosh, Hale, Petrie, Goldstein

4 playable ruck options plus a couple developing does take up a chunk of your list, so having some as rookies and others that can play other roles for the side becomes important. We have Prato as a rookie, as was Shaw, but Cordy on the main list. None of our ruck options however can play permanently in other positions for us like Ryder, Brennan, L Brown, Kreuzer, Kosi can. This makes it tougher to keep a pure ruck backup option around, but I feel it is more important than backup in other areas where we could throw players around more readily


Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

I'm a little surprised we haven't given Everitt a run in the ruck in the NAB cup to see if he can become the 4th option for us, as a mobile though undersized option, ala Round 22 2009


If Skipper was any good, we would have kept him. Too many supporters were just hoping he was going to make it in the AFL. He is too short to be a genuine ruckman and too slow to be a KPP.

Agree, Roughead has probably gone past him already, but behind him there is not much and I would feel a little more comfortable having Skipper still around

[chef]

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

Me too.

[Rocco Jones]

I definitely see Dre as a back up ruck option and would prefer him over Skipper as well.

There can be a massive difference between the roles of a 1st and 2nd ruck. There's no way I would consider Dre as a 1st ruck but his versatility makes him a decent 2nd ruck against the right opposition imo. I still would have Roughead as our number 3 either way though.

[bornadog]

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.


I definitely see Dre as a back up ruck option and would prefer him over Skipper as well.

There can be a massive difference between the roles of a 1st and 2nd ruck. There's no way I would consider Dre as a 1st ruck but his versatility makes him a decent 2nd ruck against the right opposition imo. I still would have Roughead as our number 3 either way though.


Me too.

Everitt should not be considered a ruck option. The only reason Eade used him last year against Collingwood, is because they had NO rucks and we had no option. It was also a message to Skipper.

[Hotdog60]

I thought the hawks would have gave Skipper a game against his old club, he got a go in round 1.

[chef]

Everitt should not be considered a ruck option. The only reason Eade used him last year against Collingwood, is because they had NO rucks and we had no option. It was also a message to Skipper.

IMO if two of Minson, Hudson and Roughead are injured then he and Williams would be our best options to play as a 2ND ruck(mobile pinch hitters). Cordy's not ready yet, Prato is a project ATM, Mulligan I don't know enough about, Boumann is still developing(and is a KPD hopefully) and Jones doesn't have the fitness.

[GVGjr]

Name one quality 4th ruck - in any team.



North have Hale, McIntosh, Goldstein and have Petrie who could spend 10 minutes a quarter there if necessary.
The Saints have Gardiner, King, McEvoy plus have Kosi who like Petrie can spend time there plus they have Stanley coming along nicely.
The Cats have Ottens, West, Blake and have Mooney and Hawkins who can handle some ruck work in the forward line if necessary.


The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.

[Mantis]

The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.

If we were devoid of ruck options I am sure they could throw Mulligan into the mix to help out.

[GVGjr]

If we were devoid of ruck options I am sure they could throw Mulligan into the mix to help out.

He's a pretty average ruckman for the reserves at Williamstown and the best he could do is probably run with his opponent.

[Mofra]

North have Hale, McIntosh, Goldstein and have Petrie who could spend 10 minutes a quarter there if necessary.
The Saints have Gardiner, King, McEvoy plus have Kosi who like Petrie can spend time there plus they have Stanley coming along nicely.
The Cats have Ottens, West, Blake and have Mooney and Hawkins who can handle some ruck work in the forward line if necessary.
Might be a bit generous with Kosi & Petrie - yes they can pinch hit in the ruck, but that would be robbing their structure somewhat.

Geelong are the closest to having the necessary cover, however Mooney is still their no 1 forward so would hurt their structure, and Hawkins would be maginally more effective long term than Everitt, whom I don't think is a ruck.


The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.
I agree it's not ideal, however he has shown he can play the minutes there if one of Minson or Hudson play extended minutes as the no 1 option if need be.

(Has been difficult resisting the urge to point out Cooney's effort against Cox :D)

[Mofra]

Port have Brogan, Westhoff, Lobbe, Trengove and Cloke. Geelong have Ottens, Blake, West and Simpson, and did also have Mumford. St Kilda have King, Gardiner, Kosi, McEvoy and Stanley. Collingwood have Jolly, Fraser, Wood and L Brown. Brisbane have Clark, Charman, Leuenberger and Brennan. Carlton you mentioned have Kreuzer, Hampson, Warnock and Jacobs. North have McIntosh, Hale, Petrie, Goldstein
Port is an interesting one - they have the luxury of having a senior ruck rookie that doesn't eat up gametime for their youngsters at the lower level due to the spread of SANFL representation.
Westhoff & Trengove are a bit of a stretch to nominate due to size, although by alkl accounbt Lobbe played well at SANFL last season and is in line for a debut round 1.

L Brown for the Pies would be less effective than Williams for us.
Brennan would be the equivalent to Everitt for us.

I've covered the others previously. No team could comfortably cover for losing their two first choice ruck options without trying raw types or hurting their structure elsewhere.

[GVGjr]

Might be a bit generous with Kosi & Petrie - yes they can pinch hit in the ruck, but that would be robbing their structure somewhat.



They can certainly ruck very well in the forward line allowing the team mate to position themselves a kick behind play and have a bit of a spell.
Both have done some work in the ruck as well and are no stranger to it.

[GVGjr]

Gambling on Grant over McEvoy was Claytons decision to make. McEvoy hasn't set the world on fire, but has done more than Grant. How do you see McEvoy developing GVG?

I guess Eade and co have gambled on the fact that when Minson and Hudson aren't both available that Roughy can play second fiddle. I guess if two of those three go down then we are looking at Cordy, Prato etc.



McEvoy has done OK but still has a way to go.

[Mofra]

They can certainly ruck very well in the forward line allowing the team mate to position themselves a kick behind play and have a bit of a spell.
Both have done some work in the ruck as well and are no stranger to it.
Their value is up forward though - robbing Peter twice to pay Paul. Yes they can ruck, but at what expense to the team?

[GVGjr]

Their value is up forward though - robbing Peter twice to pay Paul. Yes they can ruck, but at what expense to the team?

It hasn't caused these sides too much issues when they have used them there. It's just an additional back-up plan.

[Mofra]

It hasn't caused these sides too much issues when they have used them there. It's just an additional back-up plan.
That in itself is open to enough conjecture to be the subject of a thread itself.

[Go_Dogs]

That in itself is open to enough conjecture to be the subject of a thread itself.

I think the underlying point though, is that should necessity dictate, those sides have some more mature options who are able to lend a hand and provide coverage - which has to be beneficial and would perhaps allow a younger ruck (ie. Roughead, or McEvoy) to play better football over a longer period by reducing the burden they'd face.

If we have the scenario where Minson and Hudson go down at the same time (touching wood it won't happen) we're buggered. Roughead and Everitt are not going to be able to hold down the ruck duties. Lake can't, Mulligan can't and Hall certainly at his age shouldn't be thrown into the ruck.

It's not ideal to have to move a forward like Kosi or a utility like Petrie into the ruck, but it sure as hell beats having to limp through without any meaningful coverage.

Unless, of course, we're going with the school of thought that rucks aren't that important for Premiership sides, which could also be another topic worthy of its own thread ;)

Either way, it's a bit late to worry about a Plan D and we need to hope our guys can stay on the park. Good discussion.

[mjp]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.

- Our front-line ruck stocks (Hudson and Minson) play a similar style of footy...although Minson has a mile to go to replicate Hudson's willingness to get his hands dirty post- ruck knock. Yes, I know Minson has been injured...which to me means he will be coming into his own at around about round 16 when Hudson traditionally collapses under the weight of workload for a couple of weeks and can use a rest in any case. Roughead needs gametime in any case - 10-12 games I hope during the year - and his is good enough to play 35 minutes a game.

- Our on-ball division is very good at winning the contested ball.

The main thing that worries me about opposition rucks are those who can run forward and kick a goal - like Jolly - that they will be too clever for Roughead and will get away from him. Then again, I also think someone like Jolly is too smart for Minson and Hudson as well...so there you go.

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.

[Rocco Jones]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.


Agreed. You can always trade them if you have 'too many'. A rare specialist spot in modern footy.

[Go_Dogs]

Yes, I know Minson has been injured...which to me means he will be coming into his own at around about round 16 when Hudson traditionally collapses under the weight of workload for a couple of weeks and can use a rest in any case. Roughead needs gametime in any case - 10-12 games I hope during the year - and his is good enough to play 35 minutes a game.


Unless we can play 3 rucks (which I don't like at all) or Minson's injury is worse than we are led to believe, I don't think he'll see that much action. I don't want to sound like I'm anti-Roughead at all, I still think he can certainly play a role, but I would hate to see him having to ruck serious minutes over a long period of games. But who knows, he could surprise if thrown to the wolves.



I would be interested to hear your jaded views on our backline, and if it's to do with the strange senior listings of back up players who (seemingly) aren't going to play, then I'm even more interested.

[bornadog]

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.

How about Cordy, do you see him as a developing ruck, or as a developing KPP.

[mjp]

How about Cordy, do you see him as a developing ruck, or as a developing KPP.

Since I am in Perth these days and therefore never get to see him play, I have no real opinion except 'worried'. He should be getting close to playing senior footy this pre-season...he isn't. That is not good.

[mjp]

Unless we can play 3 rucks (which I don't like at all) or Minson's injury is worse than we are led to believe, I don't think he'll see that much action. I don't want to sound like I'm anti-Roughead at all, I still think he can certainly play a role, but I would hate to see him having to ruck serious minutes over a long period of games. But who knows, he could surprise if thrown to the wolves.


It is Roughead's second year and he needs to play. I want to see him play more than 6 games this year...reports on Minson have been pretty unclear and I would have thought he was miles off senior footy. It is not as if he is a definite, first choice player at this stage - Hudson is ahead of him in the ruck, he clearly is no more than a pinch hitting forward...I know he has a future and we need to stick with him, but I would not be shocked to see Roughead pass him by the end of 2011.




I would be interested to hear your jaded views on our backline, and if it's to do with the strange senior listings of back up players who (seemingly) aren't going to play, then I'm even more interested.
I didn't understand any part of our draft or rookie elevations...apart from the elevation of Picken and selection of Moles I have been completely baffled. No point going over old ground here, but does anyone actually think any one of Markovic, Mulligan or Boumann is ready to play? Does anyone really think Williams will get through the year?

To me a significant injury to either Lake or Morris is absolutely disastrous for us...I have no idea what we would do, what our plan might be to cover this. I guess it is Markovic - but he hasn't played this pre-season which you would have think would have made sense...I don't see any other options. It is not as if we can flip Chris Grant from Half-forward ==> Half-back in the twinkling of an eye...

All of that is for some other thread though so please don't let me railroad yet another one with negative rubbish.

[Mantis]

Since I am in Perth these days and therefore never get to see him play, I have no real opinion except 'worried'. He should be getting close to playing senior footy this pre-season...he isn't. That is not good.

With his body still maturing isn't it better that we are taking the slow & steady road?

When Ayce was drafted it was a well known fact that his skinny body would take a fair bit of conditioning to enable him to compete against men. We understand that he has put on somewhere between 15 to 18kg in this time, but the fact that he has also grown another 3cm means that his body can't be pushed too hard.

One would think that when the VFL season kicks off in another 5 weks time that Ayce will be ready to go and we hope that a solid year at this level will see him in a strong position to push towards the senior team in 2011, especially after another pre-season.

[Sedat]

It is Roughead's second year and he needs to play. I want to see him play more than 6 games this year...reports on Minson have been pretty unclear and I would have thought he was miles off senior footy. It is not as if he is a definite, first choice player at this stage - Hudson is ahead of him in the ruck, he clearly is no more than a pinch hitting forward...I know he has a future and we need to stick with him, but I would not be shocked to see Roughead pass him by the end of 2011.
Agree with your overall rationale that Roughead needs some senior AFL game time in 2010 but I think you are selling Minson's ruck work a little short. If he is behind Hudson, it is a marginal call - Hudson is an animal when it comes to 2nd and 3rd efforts after the stoppage but Minson is the more effective tap ruckman. I'd go as far to say that Hudson and Minson would be in the top 2-3 ruck combinations in the AFL over the last 2 seasons. The reality is that Hudson will retire before Minson even peaks as an AFL footballer.

[Mofra]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.
...

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.
Not sure I agree with always but it is definately good to have a number on our list. We took 2 last year & rookied Prato this year, and this is excluding Mulligan that looks set to be developed as a key defender.

[bornadog]

Colin Wisbey has given permission for this to be displayed

Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)

200/92 mid-age right foot (has other foot if necessary) ruck

*STYLE LIKE: Charman

*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 13

*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Definite. Ready year 2.

- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 3-5.

*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / LM / M

*TRADEMARK:

- Centre-bounce palm-out down the throat of a team-mate in a position to effect a clean disposal.

*MAIN SELLING POINTS:

- Ruck smarts, skills.
- Vision
- Leap
- Ethic
- Improvement trend / Scope for further improvement
- Decision-making / smarts

*MAIN QUERY:

- Kicking reliability (not a huge issue though).

*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:

- 200cm ruck who only committed to footy fairly recently. An ex basketballer who actually plays an inside game yet brings to the table some useful basketball attributes and smarts. The most impressive ruck skills of any underage ruck in this draft.

- Quite good ethic, can take a grab, smart and usually makes right decisions, mobile (although lacks a little pace), quite good endurance.

- I don't get excited about Jim Stynes-type ruckwork (i.e. statistically win the hit-out but the ball drops at the ruckman's feet, to no-one's advantage). Roughead though is "definite AFL" purely for his frequency of silver service to his mids, at centre bounces especially, regardless of whatever else he brings to the table.

- If my club's main intention was to draft a ruck primarily for ability to do frequent hitouts to genuine advantage, Roughead would be my clear choice ... in a heartbeat. And that's despite my very high regard for 3 other rucks in this draft. And, given that hypothetical drafting priority, I'd use whatever pick was believed necessary to ensure I got my man.

- An encouraging bonus with Roughead is his improvement around the ground. His improvement trend in that aspect is very solid. Averaged only 9d in '07 but improved to 14d in '08. In his last 8 TAC games, he averaged 16d and his quietest game in terms of possessions was 13 (he also had 24d in one of those games). In his previous 16 TAC games, he only got *more* than 13d 4 times. 66% improvement on last year's average and 25% up on his average in the first 1/2 of '08. He's unlikely to have the elite follower ability of Cox but, given time, he will be a more than handy possession-gathering AFL ruck around the ground, perhaps regularly 15-20d a game.

Vickery is the Vic ruck we often associate with mobility and around the ground stuff but Roughead is not all that far behind. Vickery averaged 17d at TAC level and 11d in '08 Champs and Roughead 14d and 7d. In the 2nd half of both their '08 seasons, Vickery averaged a Cox-like 21d, Roughead 16d.

Roughead is no Paul Salmon but he's no duffer around goals either. He is not an "in the ruck or on the bench" type. He is quite capable of a good grab up forward (or a gather and snap). Kicked 11-5 in '08 following 8-2 in '07 and he continues to improve in that area.

RUCKWORK:

- Displays the most intelligent, skilled, mature, effective ruckwork I've seen in an U18 ruck for some time. He doesn't just ruck to a predictable formula as many rucks do. e.g. He varies his positioning and approach at centre bounces. (e.g. Sometimes cleverly pre-positions himself at CB just marginally his side of the line then immediately moves over the line as ball is bounced, allowing him to take "front posn" coming from side - sometimes from the left, sometimes from the right). His ability to tactically think through ruck contest gives him a major advantage over many opponents. A bigger bag of tricks and tactical smarts also means that if an opponent seems to have his measure with one approach, Roughead can seamlessly switch tactics without having to compromise his own capability. At the very least, he keeps the other ruck guessing.

- A ruck's tap-outs with hurt factor to a targeted team-mate are most potent at CB's and that's Roughhead's biggest differential strength compared to other rucks in this draft but he is also very efficient at non-CB ruck contests.

- Excellent awareness of where his teammates are.

- Very big leap and times it extremely well.

- His own clearance work is fairly good and he is now a ruck who sees his job at ruck contests as not over until the ball is cleared from the area. I really value that.

- Usually holds his ground but occasionally fails to (and the times I've noticed it fail, it's surprisingly usually been against a short, lighter ruck, not a giant).

- Most of his ruckwork against VM was against McKernan who he beat comfortably but he did also beat Vickery in their limited time in ruck together. On other occasions when they've met, Roughead has had the better of Vickery at CB and they've roughly broken at non-CB. Beat Naitanui "on points" in their contests and beat Redden also (Redden did some nice work himself but Roughead definitely won on the day).

*DISPOSAL:

- Kicking accuracy let him down a bit this year but he does some good kicks. He's certainly not an unco ruck who *has* to do 1m feeds instead of kicking.

- Very reliable by hand. In fairness, many of his feeds are little give-offs typical of a ruck, so I'm not suggesting he's the next Polly Farmer, but some do have good hurt factor and he does display quick hands.

*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:

- Decision-making / smarts, especially vision, are a major strength and perhaps his basketball background comes to the fore here. He thinks through situations very well, he almost routinely looks for options (and usually makes the right choice) and he often shows excellent vision. He does some really clever things and displays quick thinking.

*HANDS:

- Regularly clean. Not just ground balls but his aerial ball control is also very good, even under great pressure.

Ball control (as distinct from ground ball cleanness) is a fairly handy ability in a mid around the ground but inside stoppages is more than handy - it's a really productive attribute to have, given how often the ball is up in the air either from a ruckman's hit-out or from popping up from the hands of whoever gathers the spills. It's something I value in an inside mid but, in a ruckman, it's a gem. Roughead's very adept in this area.

*OVERHEAD MARKING:

- Not yet a feature but he sometimes takes a very good contested grab, either front or behind and usually under great pressure. Took a screamer mid-pack under great pressure against Eastern Ranges in R13 last year - hung in the air.

Usually judges well, attacks his marks. Hands usually good, even under the greatest of pressure..

*ATHLETICISM:

- His DC results were OK but he looked tired by the end of his '08 season so I wouldn't read anything negative into his "fair"endurance results. eg His DC beep was an "OK" 12-07 but he did almost a level better (13-03) at TAC pre-season testing. By comparison, Vickery constantly records beeps in the 11's and Naitanui's beeps have typically been in the 12's. Similarly, Roughead's normal on-field endurance is much better than his DC 3km of 12.23min might suggest.

- Very big leap.

- Pace is "slow midfielder" pace but acceptable for a quality ruck. (His quickest time at '08 DC flatters him a bit). Pace off the mark is sometimes sluggish, sometimes quite good. Very mobile though.

- Seems to be a late physical developer. Has grown about 5cm between early '07 and late '08 and also doesn't have the degree of body hair of some peers. Officially only grown 1cm since early '08 (and measurement diffs of just 1cm are meaningless) but might even still have a fraction more growth left?

- Fairly good at keeping his feet.

- Good reflexes.

- Defensive agility isn't always flash but is passable.

*INTENSITY, ETHIC:

- His intensity isn't uniform but it's generally pretty good. It let him down somewhat in '07 and his coach urged him in at least a couple of games to push back harder and show more intensity. He's still not quite there but has shown significant improvement this year.

Has most of the 1%ers covered. Chases (which some rucks don't). Attacks the spoil. Generally an effective tackler..

- Gets his own ball inside traffic.

- Very coachable. Intelligent kid. Asks questions. Keen to learn.. Team man.

*CONSISTENCY:

- Quite consistent, both game by game and within a game and in effort as well as output.

*AFL VERSATILITY:

- Specialist ruck but as a ruck resting productively in FP, not someone who has to be benched when resting.

*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):

- Although 2 full TAC seasons, is ex-basketballer and a country kid so CSI is a bit above normal.

*SOME STATS:

- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 14 disposals in 15 local games. 0.7 contested marks. 2.5 tackles. Total goals 11-5 .
10 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 4.3 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.2 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.6 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.3 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 6.0 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.3 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 1 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 25%. % change in KI/10K was + 44%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 30%. % change in contested marks was -68%. % change in handball receives was + 49%. % change in tackles was + 68%.

- Stats summary '07 TAC:
Averaged 9 disposals in 18 TAC games. 0.4 contested marks. 1.7 tackles. Total goals 8-2 .
9 kicks per 20 disposals (ranking No.22 for lowest in comp).
Ineffective kicks: 2.7 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 2.6 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.3 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.1 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 4.1 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 8.2 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 29%. % change in KI/10K was -20%. % change in Ineff/20D was -39%. % change in contested marks was + 67%. % change in handball receives was + 68%. % change in tackles was + 51%.

- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 7 disposals and 3.0 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 8). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 8 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 2-4 (3 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 8/14 (5.7 per 10 kicks), incl 1 clangers (0.7 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 2/22 (0.9 per 10 handballs), incl 0 clangers (0.0/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 10/36 (5.6 per 20 disp), incl 1 clangers (0.6 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 7/36 (3.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 11/36 (6.1 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 18/36 (10.0 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (2.2 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 3/36 (1.7 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 5/36 (2.8 per 20 disp), incl 2 CBC (1.1/20 disp) and 1 other BU (0.6/20 disp).
Tackles: 7 (Avg 1.4 per game).
HO: (Tot - cb - oth b/u - t/i): 72-33-15-24, comprising 16-9-5-2 (vs VM) 12-5-4-3 (vs NSW) 14-4-0-10 (vs WA) 14-5-3-6 (vs SA) 16-10-3-3 (vs TAS)

*OTHER STUFF:

- Jarryd's cousin.
- Ex-basketballer.

Congratulations to Roughead on his first game for the Mighty Dogs

[chef]

Yep, Good luck Jordan and thanks for re-posting that GVGjr.

[bornadog]

Yep, Good luck Jordan and thanks for re-posting that GVGjr.

:eek: I thought I was Bornadog:D

[chef]

:eek: I thought I was Bornadog:D

:oSorry, I just looked at the 'originally posted by'

Thanks for re-posting it bornadog:D.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Best of luck and hope you remember it as a fantastic night.

[LostDoggy]

Roughead to tear it apart.
Go son!

[LostDoggy]

I can smell a NAB Rising Star Nominee cooking! ;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Pretty excited to see how Roughy goes tonight. Either way, he's going to be a good player and a real steal at 31.

[Mofra]

Worth re-mentioning he has always been a Bulldogs fan as well so a big night for the kid. Great news for him.

[w3design]

Looked a likely type. Can jump and take a grab.

[LostDoggy]

Watch ya back Minson!! Great first game:)

[LostDoggy]

Gave us more than big Will has this season. Great to have competition for second ruck. Good signs.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Thought both Roughy & Grant showed enough to keep spot in side for next week.:)

[LostDoggy]

I was very happy with both his ruckwork and poise around the ground. Good signs.

[The Underdog]

Liked his game, occasionally got lost in the transition back to defence and that miss from 25 out was a shocker but he moved well, took some nice grabs and his tapwork was good.

[AndrewP6]

Great debut from Roughy I thought. Moves well, seems to have good awareness, and I liked that grab he took in the 3rd quarter - shame about the missed goal :(. Good job for the young fella!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Impressive debut for a second year ruckman.

Second and third efforts were a highlight. Some bone crunching tackles and deft taps. His ruck work is continually improving and he used a nice side step a few times tonight to palm the ball down. Similar to Hudson who does this very well, but he's got a bigger leap than The Beard.

Some very nice marks and he's got nice skills aside from that soda he missed.

There was real excitement amongst the Dogs fans whenever he got near it.

[Go_Dogs]

There was real excitement amongst the Dogs fans whenever he got near it.

I must admit, I was pretty excited in my living room when he got near it too.


Showed a lot of good signs. His marking and leap are quite good. He's looking very mobile, but could do with a bit more strength through his core and perhaps a little more weight. His miss of the easy goal was disappointing, but besides that, a good first game.

Wonder if he'll stay in v the Saints or if we go back in with Will. I guess we'll know more once Williamstown has played.

[LostDoggy]

Minson and Roughead will be a good combination in years to come. Look forward to seeing Roughead grow into his body and the improvement that comes with time. Good selection Dogs.

[Hot_Doggies]

Minson and Roughead will be a good combination in years to come. Look forward to seeing Roughead grow into his body and the improvement that comes with time. Good selection Dogs.


Roughead and Cordy will be a better combination.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Roughead's goal kicking action looks great, well balanced, square to the target, with a strong strike on the ball and very natural. the misssed one was just nerves.

[Go_Dogs]

Roughead's goal kicking action looks great, well balanced, square to the target, with a strong strike on the ball and very natural. the misssed one was just nerves.

I posed the question last year if Roughead is going to be a player whose better suited to a forward - ruck role, like Tippett. The response wasn't overwhelming then, and almost everyone said that Cordy would play that forward - ruck role, with Roughead predominately in the ruck.

Based on last night's game, I think my argument certainly has some strong merits to it.

[angelopetraglia]

Thought it was great debut from Roughead. We do give young new players so much more leniency and rightly so.

If Minson played the same game as Roughead played last night, I'm sure we would have all been super critical of him.

[Desipura]

Thought it was great debut from Roughead. We do give young new players so much more leniency and rightly so.

If Minson played the same game as Roughead played last night, I'm sure we would have all been super critical of him.
The difference is Will has played 96 games to Roughy's one.

I cant recall too many times where Will has plucked a one hander in the forward line. The guy did not look overrawed at all. Was confident enough to go for his marks rather than leaving it to his more experienced teammates.
I liked the mark in the last quarter where Murphy turned on his right just about to kick the ball deep in the forward line. There were no options, he spotted Roughy on the 50 metre line and kicked long to him, Roughy took the mark from behind and handballed to Griffen, goal!

[Rocco Jones]

Thought it was great debut from Roughead. We do give young new players so much more leniency and rightly so.

If Minson played the same game as Roughead played last night, I'm sure we would have all been super critical of him.

Big difference for me was that Roughead didn't look like a liability up forward.

With Hudson being so one dimensional, our 2nd ruck has to spend most of their TOG outside of the ruck. I have found it odd that so many fans see the 2nd ruck spot in our side virtually purely about ruck ability. To me it is clearly at least a combination of ruck related and forward ability. While I think Will might have Roughead covered in the ruck at the moment, Roughead more than makes up the difference up forward. Roughie actually adds some value up forward, whereas Will just offers another spot on the bench for a runner to rest.

If it were a battle for the 1st ruck position, I would have Will in front but relative to the role needed, I think there should be little doubt that Roughead gets the nod in the short term future at least. Best 22 to run out on the ground > best 22.

[GVGjr]

Big difference for me was that Roughead didn't look like a liability up forward.



I watched him a lot last year and when he was fit he was also a factor in the back half able to double back and help out the defenders. He has a footy brain and just needs to stay healthy.

[Rocco Jones]

I watched him a lot last year and when he was fit he was also a factor in the back half able to double back and help out the defenders. He has a footy brain and just needs to stay healthy.

Definitely agree with that.

It think we need to be clever with Roughead and give him a rest here and there. I have read about your concerns with young ruckmen (especially ones with injury concerns) and really agree.

[Desipura]

Big difference for me was that Roughead didn't look like a liability up forward.

With Hudson being so one dimensional, our 2nd ruck has to spend most of their TOG outside of the ruck. I have found it odd that so many fans see the 2nd ruck spot in our side virtually purely about ruck ability. To me it is clearly at least a combination of ruck related and forward ability. While I think Will might have Roughead covered in the ruck at the moment, Roughead more than makes up the difference up forward. Roughie actually adds some value up forward, whereas Will just offers another spot on the bench for a runner to rest.

If it were a battle for the 1st ruck position, I would have Will in front but relative to the role needed, I think there should be little doubt that Roughead gets the nod in the short term future at least. Best 22 to run out on the ground > best 22.
I think you will find (especially in the long run) that Roughy will be a better tap ruckman. You can see he is a natural ruckman where Will has had to become one. Minson has him covered in the contested ball situation in a ruck contest.

[Rocco Jones]

I think you will find (especially in the long run) that Roughy will be a better tap ruckman. You can see he is a natural ruckman where Will has had to become one. Minson has him covered in the contested ball situation in a ruck contest.

I totally agree with all that mate. I was just trying that at the moment, that Minson is a (slightly) superior AFL ready pure ruckman. As you say, the contested ball situation is the one thing in Will's favour.

The point I have been trying to get across for awhile is that our 2nd ruck position is affected by Hudson not being able to play elsewhere. It places a fair bit of importance in our 2nd ruck being able to offer value somewhere other than the ruck and Roughead is clearly ahead of Will there IMO.

[BulldogBelle]

Great first game.

We will now have a bit of competion for the 2nd Ruck spot which can't be bad!

[Raw Toast]

Very impressive debut for the reasons covered above.

Got his hands to a few of the centre bounces but the hit-outs were sharked by Adelaide. You'd think that it's just a matter of time before he develops a better understanding with our mids.

Also it was probably mainly first-game nerves, but he needs to show more awareness when dishing the ball off by hand. He gave a great feed to Griffen for the goal, but at other times sold a few team-mates into trouble by just dishing it off without assessing where the opposition were.

Still he did better than I expected and gave us an extra dimension that we haven't had since Darcy.

[Mofra]

I was very happy with his performance last night - 3 very good marks taken, and two of those (wing and one-hander in the forwardline) I wouldn't have thought Minson would have taken.
His approach on the ball as a forward was very good too - what luxury allowing Hall to rest on the bench at times!

There were 4-5 occasions he got lost after a turnover and Adelaide ran around him on transition - I wouldn't expect him to make those mistakes with a couple more seasons under his belt, and on the whole his positioning around the ground was good too.
It will be interesting to see how his tapwork develops once he has spent longer with our midfielders - he seems a natural, just needs to develop that understanding with the group that only comes with experience.

Probably needs to work on his boundary throw ins a bit too - but on the whole he was very good, especially with his willingness to impose his frame on the contest.

I don't expect him to stand up physically to the remaining 16 rounds + finals, but if we can rest Hudson & Minson along the way he'll be providing value ot the side even if he isn't playing at times.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

A fantastic first up game with all the attention and all.

I must say that at the interclub game I thought he had killed Huddo in the centre but around the ground his light frame was just pushed aside. If he can get 5 to 6 games this year that should keep him keen and let him know what the expectations are from his body and football game.

He has two very good rucks to learn from and I think he can take the best from both he will be better than Kruzer.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I posed the question last year if Roughead is going to be a player whose better suited to a forward - ruck role, like Tippett. The response wasn't overwhelming then, and almost everyone said that Cordy would play that forward - ruck role, with Roughead predominately in the ruck.

Based on last night's game, I think my argument certainly has some strong merits to it.

I agree he looks like he could be great as a forward. Similarly he looks like he will be a great ruckman, so it comes down to which role the clubs requires him to fill.
Before Darcy's knee decided it would ruin his brilliant career (touchwood it doesn't happen to Roughie), he was being used in both roles and the club began to realise how damaging he could be up forward and we supporters dared to dream.
Maybe Roughie can fulfill that thwarted dream.

[LostDoggy]

Jordys going to be on the unday footy show soon....

[Rocco Jones]

I must say I really love the look of him. Like in any industry, you want people who are just made for the job and Jordan is that. He seems to have all the right tools and so much natural development in him.

I really love his leap, whether it's in a ruck contest or going for mark. Watching him at Willy, he seems to struggle to use the strength at times but with experience the timing will come. Unlike a lot of young ruckmen who also seems a natural tap/palmer of the ball. Getting these separate components to work together may take a bit of time but his base is already AFL 2nd ruck level IMO.

His mobility looks OK but as GVG has mentioned, his footy brain impresses me massively. Runs to the right areas all around the ground. Fitness is another attribute that naturally improves at Jordan's age (assuming he is willing). His smarts and his leap mean we already aren't carrying him in his 'spells' up forward. Ever so vital playing alongside such a pure ruck in Hudson.

Wisby(?) compared him to Charman and he already looks up for the physical/contested ball work as a ruck. Another area that will naturally improve with physical development.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Jordys going to be on the unday footy show soon....

Very impressive performance on the show, especially for a 19yo. Seems very mentally balanced and unflappable. Great characteristics to have in AFL.
We don't tend to talk about mental characteristics in AFL but they are surely as important as physical skill. It separates the wheat from the chaff, those that can bring their talents to bear when the moment arrives. Templeton could do it McPherson could do it. So could Darcy and Brad Hardie. Higgins has got it. Doug Hawkins failed to kick the amount of goals his talent warranted. He like many players was better on the run but when he had time to think about a set shot he missed a high proportion he should have nailed with his physical talent.

[ledge]

Very impressive performance on the show, especially for a 19yo. Seems very mentally balanced and unflappable. Great characteristics to have in AFL.
We don't tend to talk about mental characteristics in AFL but they are surely as important as physical skill. It separates the wheat from the chaff, those that can bring their talents to bear when the moment arrives. Templeton could do it McPherson could do it. So could Darcy and Brad Hardie. Higgins has got it. Doug Hawkins failed to kick the amount of goals his talent warranted. He like many players was better on the run but when he had time to think about a set shot he missed a high proportion he should have nailed with his physical talent.

Fev is brilliant when the pressure is on but he isnt the smartest tool in the shed either.
So is he wheat or chaff?

[Bulldog Joe]

Roughead and Cordy will be a better combination.

Don't discount the value of Will's strength and aggression.

[The Pie Man]

I think Jordan's debut more than justified the decision to jettison Skipper - I'm a massive fan. The current arrangement is win-win; Minson can build on both fitness and confidence, and Roughead can continue to impress and gain experience until the wear and tear of senior footy catches up with his young frame.

Great start

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Fev is brilliant when the pressure is on but he isnt the smartest tool in the shed either.
So is he wheat or chaff?

No brains no feeling.
Champions seem to respond to 'pressure' situations as 'opportunity'.
Its more evident in golf. Nicklaus and Thomson et al could get themselves up for the majors and if they had a sniff they could produce their best even though they weren't the most physically talented. In footy guys like Johnson, most captains etc know the monent in a game when something special is needed and can respond. That's a mental attribute that not all talented players have. Hopefully this orange Roughie has the attribute and can develop it. If he also has a brain then he's unlikely to piss on shop windows.

[Greystache]

Why I had to leave the Bulldogs

Premiership star moves to the biggest club in town and becomes the key to its defence. And still no-one recognises him.

This is the scenario which Jordan Roughead confronts daily ... and he loves it.

The Collingwood fullback lives around the corner from his new home at the Holden Centre in the middle of Melbourne's sporting precinct and can come and go as he pleases.

"I don't get recognised and I love it," Roughead says. "I put the glasses on and I become invisible which is nice."

He then jokes: "I think it helps that you don't get a kick also."

It's not how many kicks Roughead gets which matters, it's how few his opponents have been getting this season which has quickly seen him become a favourite of the Collingwood army.

This was highlighted back in Round 10 when he stood Sydney star Lance Franklin and kept him to six touches.

"To be honest I was probably lucky to get him in his first game back and he was looking for some match fitness," he says.

"I'd actually spent a half on him in a NAB Cup game back in about 2012 and he kicked three or four that day so at least it went better this time."

The sight of Roughead, 28, holding together Collingwood's back half is a weekly dagger in the heart of Western Bulldogs fans who still struggle to work out how easily he was let go.

He became a Magpie in exchange for a fourth-round selection, No. 78, in last year's draft which the Dogs used to select VFL player Will Hayes.

Given the Dogs lack of tall defenders it's certainly a head scratcher, but the man himself is adamant he's a different person and player to the one who was wallowing in the VFL last year which accelerated his exit from the Whitten Oval.

"I put a lot of it down to the change of environment," Roughead explains.

"I think there is a bit of desire to prove that last year ... it was almost like my career was winding down and that I wasn't going to spend much more time in the game.

"There is a desire, whether it is to prove people wrong or show that you're still capable of playing the best game in Australia at the highest level."

So how do you go from playing a crucial role in the Bulldogs 2016 premiership victory to staring at the scrap heap two years later?

"I think there are multiple reasons," he says after a long pause. "I honestly genuinely believe a lot of it was the staleness of getting in the car every morning and driving over the West Gate Bridge to the only place that I have ever worked.

"I got drafted to the Bulldogs when I'd just turned 18, I was coming up 28 and hadn't had a different perspective. I'd had the same coach or coaches for five years and I just needed a refresher.

"I needed some different opinions and different perspectives to develop me as a person as much as a footballer.

"There were probably three or four conversations and moments throughout last year and I made the decision midway through to start looking for a new home.

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs, so I knew that I needed a fresh look at it and a clean slate to start again.

"I still had the belief. I still believed in myself and my ability. I knew that with players and coaches around me that believed in me then I would be able to get out there and play some good footy."

It wasn't the first time his faith had been tested and when his premiership teammate Tom Boyd's sad fall from grace is brought up, Roughead reveals he'd experienced mental health battles earlier in his career.

"Mental health is a huge problem in the game. I think it is one of the biggest challenges the game faces going forward, to keep players in the game and maintain their passion and love of the game because it is something that can be extinguished pretty quickly.

"I had some anxiety and mental health challenges of my own through 2014-15. I just got in a hole from injury, form, expectation on myself and other people.

"There were a multitude of factors, I was probably too focused on football at that point in my life. I needed some things outside of footy whether it was mates or investing in my studies, whatever it was to distract myself from football.

"I learnt a lot about myself through that time, I worked with a sports psych to, I guess, become more resilient and understand what makes me tick and how to help myself when I experience some challenges.

"Last year I looked at footy as a great opportunity when I was playing VFL footy to help the guys that were going to have long careers in the AFL who were in that VFL team.

"As much as it was a challenge for me, it was great because it made me realise that potentially I have a career in coaching after footy or in development."

That's all on hold for a couple of years with Roughead eyeing another premiership and the chance to feel those "goosebumps" which still strike when his mind wanders back to 2016.

"I want to experience it again and I want to help other people experience it," he says.

“Someone asked me the other night to describe the feeling of winning the premiership. I don't think there are words to do it justice, it's something you have to live to understand."

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/collingwoods-jordan-roughead-flourishing-for-pies-after-staleness-forced-old-dog-to-find-new-home/news-story/157658a017ffc27640d0866382fc7702

[Greystache]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

[AndrewP6]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

With the exception of Boyd, they all have shown at times that footy isn't/wasn't their number one priority.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

Pretty alarming I would have thought.

[Happy Days]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

Its been pretty plain on the evidence for a while that the coaching staff and club in general are poor managers of personalities and conflict; the Talia and GrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrub squabbles were taken as galvanising experiences at the time but in hindsight were (and in the case of GrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrub continue to be) petty and set a standard that we appear to have taken on to our list management.

There's a fine line between exerting discipline and being out of touch with the needs of your players.

Edit - as if that auto-correct on DB's name is actually a real thing we're doing

[GVGjr]

Its been pretty plain on the evidence for a while that the coaching staff and club in general are poor managers of personalities and conflict; the Talia and GrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrub squabbles were taken as galvanising experiences at the time but in hindsight were (and in the case of GrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrubGrub continue to be) petty and set a standard that we appear to have taken on to our list management.

There's a fine line between exerting discipline and being out of touch with the needs of your players.

Edit - as if that auto-correct on DB's name is actually a real thing we're doing

I'll fix that in the next day or so

[GVGjr]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

Particularly with Roughead also saying that "There were a multitude of factors, I was probably too focused on football at that point in my life. I needed some things outside of footy whether it was mates or investing in my studies, whatever it was to distract myself from football" so it's not like he was distracted but just looking to strike a better balance.

I've got a lot of time for Roughead and I wouldn't be quick to dismiss his comments. Perhaps there is something the club could look at and learn from.

[G-Mo77]

I read that last night. Sad reading indeed however I'm so happy he is doing well. The coaches comment is alarming also, needing a new perspective from new faces? Isn't that what most supporters have been saying as well and we continue to have the same people season after season. Maybe they might wear a different hat but it's still the same person. We're an absolute mess.

[GVGjr]

With the exception of Boyd, they all have shown at times that footy isn't/wasn't their number one priority.

I don't think you can apply that to Roughy, when others were doing PT courses or trades in their spare time as they are all encouraged to do he was looking at a coaching career post his footy playing days. Hardly distracted from my perspective.

[GVGjr]

Edit - as if that auto-correct on DB's name is actually a real thing we're doing

Barrett should now be off the swear filter going forward

[Grantysghost]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

I've got a lot of time for Jordan so that's statement is concerning and pretty much echoes what we've all been saying about the appearance of a stagnant program that needs to become more dynamic. I never hear any amazing adulation of Bevo in ex player interviews which maybe says something by omission, I get the feeling his much lauded love for his players could leave those left out feeling abandoned and conversely alone.
To be fair I didn't think he was part of our best team so credit to the pies for getting him back to his best. There's some worrying signs coming out of our club at the moment.

[Ghost Dog]

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs"

Another player (Dahlhaus, Biggs, Boyd, Redpath, Stringer) who says they'd rather not player football than play at the Bulldogs. Surely the time for an in depth review is well overdue. Combined with on field results something wreaks at the club.

I don't think that's what he said or we can't be certain that is what he is saying. Not play may also mean ' not be selected'.
There is a lot of doom and gloom at the moment. Expect us to come out snarling.

[bulldogtragic]

I read that last night. Sad reading indeed however I'm so happy he is doing well. The coaches comment is alarming also, needing a new perspective from new faces? Isn't that what most supporters have been saying as well and we continue to have the same people season after season. Maybe they might wear a different hat but it's still the same person. We're an absolute mess.

That's another big take away. A leadership group player (life long dogs supporter) saying he was getting stale because he had the same coaches who couldn't provide fresh perspective to keep developing him as a footballer.

If the club doesn't wholesale change the coaching panel, we will continue to bleed players. If there's no change, then I'm going to consider the $200+ in membership add ons. I'm still going to do the right thing and be a social club member no matter what. But at some point the club needs to help itself, or risk frustrating us where the only avenue to protest is to dial back our hard earned.

[The bulldog tragician]

This is quite confronting. I can dismiss what Dahlhaus says, but a heart and soul player talking like this makes me alarmed about the club culture that is currently being created. I hope Roughies words create some soul searching at the club.

[Rocket Science]

So, more fodder for the 'Bevo & Co gets old fast' theory. If the likes of Roughy are feeling alienated within the confines of the club, well ... you might have a problem.

I wonder how many others might be feeling a bit stale and thinking gee, a fresh start somewhere else sounds alright.

In light of this, some of the on-field signs and conversations about 'body-language' inspire a little bit of dread.

[Sedat]

Rough is a quality person - his story is telling and should absolutely be noted and acted upon by the club. Not to say the departed rat pack don't have their own qualities but Rough is an intelligent, thoughtful, considered individual who does not shoot from the hip.

Our club sounds like it is very corrosive inside the 4 walls.

[bulldogtragic]

So, more fodder for the 'Bevo & Co gets old fast' theory. If the likes of Roughy are feeling alienated within the confines of the club, well ... you might have a problem.

I wonder how many others might be feeling a bit stale and thinking gee, a fresh start somewhere else sounds alright.

In light of this, some of the on-field signs and conversations about 'body-language' inspire a little bit of dread.

Dahl, Adams (was contracted), Redders (was contracted), Biggs (young to retire), Tom Boyd (depression, also majorly contracted) & Roughy wanted out. And we kicked out Cloke who had depression whilst at the dogs and had a contract. I'm no scientician, but that's a lot of unhappy players who didn't want the money to stay at out club. To any scienticians, I'd like to know why a group of young men who had contracted millions of dollars coming to them, would knock back said millions to play local footy (Boyd?, Biggs, Redders, Cloke) or go elsewhere including interstate (Adams).

On the flip side, that opened up lots of games for Honeychurch & Roarke last year, and Hayes this year. The future. At least La Young is something to look forward to the future about.

[bulldogtragic]

Rough is a quality person - his story is telling and should absolutely be noted and acted upon by the club. Not to say the departed rat pack don't have their own qualities but Rough is an intelligent, thoughtful, considered individual who does not shoot from the hip.

Out club sounds like it is very corrosive inside the 4 walls.

I'm starting to have PTSD flashbacks to late 2014. Then we'd tried 'flexible' creative positioning of Lake forward and Higgins back. Both responded by leaving to be Norm Smith &/or B&Fs. Players were stalling in development, Liam Jones et al. Body language of players is poor. The team can do glimpses on match day, but not 4 quarters. Bad win/loss ratio. Players not running hard both ways, ala Cooney. Trouble scoring in a meaningful way. Whispers coming out about unhappy players. The coach is looking lost with game day tactics. Just waiting to see if someone gets a public spray like Jack Macrae got.

[Ghost Dog]

All this hand-wringing but what are the facts. Nobody can prove what goes on inside the club except those in it and close to it. It may truly be the coaches are not inspiring players. But don't we all get stale at a workplace after 10 years? The coaches may be the key problem or a minor part. The coaches may not be the key problem. Sydney just came out and smashed the Eagles. Did they suddenly change their coach? With Brendan, the coach was definitely the problem and we saw players expressing that. But until we hear otherwise from this group, can't really pin it on Luke 100%. May be other factors.

[Twodogs]

Dahl, Adams (was contracted), Redders (was contracted), Biggs (young to retire), Tom Boyd (depression, also majorly contracted) & Roughy wanted out. And we kicked out Cloke who had depression whilst at the dogs and had a contract. I'm no scientician, but that's a lot of unhappy players who didn't want the money to stay at out club. To any scienticians, I'd like to know why a group of young men who had contracted millions of dollars coming to them, would knock back said millions to play local footy (Boyd?, Biggs, Redders, Cloke) or go elsewhere including interstate (Adams).

On the flip side, that opened up lots of games for Honeychurch & Roarke last year, and Hayes this year. The future. At least La Young is something to look forward to the future about.

I don't think that Tom Cruise or L. Ron know or knew that much about football. They probably would tell you that they understand it on a level that we can't begin to appreciate until we have handed over the money for the course though.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think that Tom Cruise or L. Ron know or knew that much about football. They probably would tell you that they understand it on a level that we can't begin to appreciate until we have handed over the money for the course though.

I was thinking of the scientician that comments on eating meat, the food chain and inspired me to go to bovine university.

[1eyedog]

I'm starting to have PTSD flashbacks to late 2014. Then we'd tried 'flexible' creative positioning of Lake forward and Higgins back. Both responded by leaving to be Norm Smith &/or B&Fs. Players were stalling in development, Liam Jones et al. Body language of players is poor. The team can do glimpses on match day, but not 4 quarters. Bad win/loss ratio. Players not running hard both ways, ala Cooney. Trouble scoring in a meaningful way. Whispers coming out about unhappy players. The coach is looking lost with game day tactics. Just waiting to see if someone gets a public spray like Jack Macrae got.

Yet Crozier has come over and been twice the player he was at Freo. Suckling was also just outside best 22 at the Hawks and is critical to us when fit. Lloyd has been serviceable and Trengove pretty solid as well.

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say Roughy is someone I’d be taking heed in what he says . Club needs a massive overhaul at seasons end .
Few players there though I’d suggest didn’t do themselves any favours . We all know the stories so let’s not guild the lilly

[Greystache]

Dahl, Adams (was contracted), Redders (was contracted), Biggs (young to retire), Tom Boyd (depression, also majorly contracted) & Roughy wanted out. And we kicked out Cloke who had depression whilst at the dogs and had a contract. I'm no scientician, but that's a lot of unhappy players who didn't want the money to stay at out club. To any scienticians, I'd like to know why a group of young men who had contracted millions of dollars coming to them, would knock back said millions to play local footy (Boyd?, Biggs, Redders, Cloke) or go elsewhere including interstate (Adams).

On the flip side, that opened up lots of games for Honeychurch & Roarke last year, and Hayes this year. The future. At least La Young is something to look forward to the future about.

Obscure reference, gold!

[Grantysghost]

Agree with all the previous posts, one thing that concerns me also is how are we perceived amongst other AFL players as a destination? Considering we have struggled to land A graders this could be a concern.
Players will fall out with coaches of course, Lachie Neale and Ross Lyon an example, and players have improved with us as explained but it's certainly something to consider.

[GVGjr]

Agree with all the previous posts, one thing that concerns me also is how are we perceived amongst other AFL players as a destination? Considering we have struggled to land A graders this could be a concern.
Players will fall out with coaches of course, Lachie Neale and Ross Lyon an example, and players have improved with us as explained but it's certainly something to consider.

I agree, an opportunity worth exploring

[bornadog]

Agree with all the previous posts, one thing that concerns me also is how are we perceived amongst other AFL players as a destination? Considering we have struggled to land A graders this could be a concern.
Players will fall out with coaches of course, Lachie Neale and Ross Lyon an example, and players have improved with us as explained but it's certainly something to consider.

The thing is when you have 45 players at a club, they are not all going to be 100% happy for various reasons. If a player is not getting games, and think they should be, they will be disgruntled and want to change to a new club.

Roughie is a great guy, and who knows what happened behind closed doors, there are always two sides to a story. Take a person when they get the sack, they publicly say they resigned.

It was obvious that Roughie wasn't the greatest tap ruck in the AFL and was struggling to get a game. It was also obvious our coaches didn't see him slotting into the backline, or maybe he just wanted a change.

I say good luck to him, but I don't read into his departure that there are issues at the club with players overall.

[jeemak]

I wouldn't be reading too much into it other than our program has gotten stale and those delivering it need to be turned over. Something blind Freddy can see, I'll be super pissed off with Grant, Baines and Gordon if they don't have the apricots to force changes after a substantial review.

It's actually reached a point where the supporters need to be extremely vocal in their disapproval and aggressively lobby the club to make changes.

[Grantysghost]

I was thinking of the scientician that comments on eating meat, the food chain and inspired me to go to bovine university.

Is he crazy? No, just ignorant. You see your crazy friend never heard of.... The food chain.

That is gold.

[Sedat]

I wouldn't be reading too much into it other than our program has gotten stale and those delivering it need to be turned over. Something blind Freddy can see, I'll be super pissed off with Grant, Baines and Gordon if they don't have the apricots to force changes after a substantial review.
Wasn't the time to do this in the 2017 off-season? We had 2 elite years prior and then dropped from 19 wins to 11 wins in 1 season. What on earth have our senior management been doing the last 2 years, presiding over minimal changes and even worse on-field results (8 wins in 2018 and likely even less this year)?

[The bulldog tragician]

The thing is when you have 45 players at a club, they are not all going to be 100% happy for various reasons. If a player is not getting games, and think they should be, they will be disgruntled and want to change to a new club.

Roughie is a great guy, and who knows what happened behind closed doors, there are always two sides to a story. Take a person when they get the sack, they publicly say they resigned.

It was obvious that Roughie wasn't the greatest tap ruck in the AFL and was struggling to get a game. It was also obvious our coaches didn't see him slotting into the backline, or maybe he just wanted a change.

I say good luck to him, but I don't read into his departure that there are issues at the club with players overall.

There are probably ok & valid reasons for each individual who departs a club, but at some point it reaches critical mass where we have to at least pose the questions of whether our club has somehow become an unhappy place to be. Roughie’s comments are that turning point for me.

It can’t always be “them” and not “us.”

[jeemak]

Wasn't the time to do this in the 2017 off-season? We had 2 elite years prior and then dropped from 19 wins to 11 wins in 1 season. What on earth have our senior management been doing the last 2 years, presiding over minimal changes and even worse on-field results (8 wins in 2018 and likely even less this year)?

Yes, the end of 2017 would have been suitable, but I can understand the club giving some latitude. The absolute very latest should have been after last year, but again it looks as if latitude has been given. There simply isn't any room for it anymore, and if the three I mentioned don't do anything to generate a review based change then their positions at the club should be up for debate.

[bornadog]

There are probably ok & valid reasons for each individual who departs a club, but at some point it reaches critical mass where we have to at least pose the questions of whether our club has somehow become an unhappy place to be. Roughie’s comments are that turning point for me.

It can’t always be “them” and not “us.”

Critical Mass? I don't see one.

I do agree and have said before, we need to change up the assistant coaches and get some new ideas in.

[Grantysghost]

Critical Mass? I don't see one.

I do agree and have said before, we need to change up the assistant coaches and get some new ideas in.

I used to be similar in thought. I'm starting to question things now. The flip side of attracting elite talent is of major concern to me and I see a correlation. What's the answer I'm unsure.

[bornadog]

I used to be similar in thought. I'm starting to question things now. The flip side of attracting elite talent is of major concern to me and I see a correlation. What's the answer I'm unsure.

We have never really attracted elite talent, so nothing has changed there.

[GVGjr]

We have never really attracted elite talent, so nothing has changed there.

We attract them later in their career's. Cloke, Hall and Aker for example would have been headline additions if they were traded for 2 or 3 years earlier

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I do hope Roughie's words resonate with the club and provoke some self-reflection and honest debate about whether there are things we could be doing better in regard to our management of the players.
Something isn't necessarily awry just because one bloke had a negative eperience; but Roughie is a quality bloke, and some of his attributed comments strike me as troubling. They're not the usual defensive outbursts indicative of a personal falling out, but rather an insight into an environment that was stale and devoid of stimulus.
I'll be very disappointed if the club doesn't think about what Roughie has said. This isnt the ramblings of someone looking to take a cheap shot by tweeting about being ' so motovated'.

[bornadog]

I do hope Roughie's words resonate with the club and provoke some self-reflection and honest debate about whether there are things we could be doing better in regard to our management of the players.
Something isn't necessarily awry just because one bloke had a negative eperience; but Roughie is a quality bloke, and some of his attributed comments strike me as troubling. They're not the usual defensive outbursts indicative of a personal falling out, but rather an insight into an environment that was stale and devoid of stimulus.
I'll be very disappointed if the club doesn't think about what Roughie has said. This isnt the ramblings of someone looking to take a cheap shot by tweeting about being ' so motovated'.

Is it the ramblings of someone trying to justify why they left - two sides to every story.

[GVGjr]

At the end of the day we didn't feel Roughy had a spot and he chose to look elsewhere so I suppose we have to accept that
As others have pointed out though he is a reasonable man and a respected club man in his time with us so much so that we had him in the leadership group at various times and even as a part time coach for our wonderful AFLW side. We obviously rated him in his leadership attributes.
I think given his credentials and the manner he has conducted himself during what was probably a very challenging time for him we should try and seek him out to see what we might do better.

Done in the right way we can turn this into a learning experience.

[Happy Days]

Is it the ramblings of someone trying to justify why they left - two sides to every story.

There's nothing remotely rambling about it though. It's a measured and considered response to a question and can be backed by a considerable amount of evidence both on and off-field inherent in our performance and ability to retain players since 2016.

[The bulldog tragician]

Is it the ramblings of someone trying to justify why they left - two sides to every story.

I guess the question is what OUR side of the story actually would be. He is not a malcontent of questionable character. And based on the 2019 form of our club, our defensive and ruck stocks, and Roughie’s present form, I’m not sure why he wouldn’t be a best 22 player for us. So I don’t think it is reflex criticism of the club or Bevo, just to question why his career couldn’t have been reinvigorated with us.

[ledge]

Sometimes you just need a new environment.

[Sedat]

Is it the ramblings of someone trying to justify why they left - two sides to every story.
I admire your stubborn ability to be a company man to the last, BAD.

All some of us are saying is that we can take the words of Dahl, Stringer, etc.. with a grain of salt, but when a team leader and highly respected player such as Roughy makes some measured assertions, they should not be swept under the carpet. If we don't listen, we don't learn.

[lemmon]

Sometimes you just need a new environment.

Yes...But the issue is why so many players have expressed the need for 'a new environment' over the last 24 months.

Is it going to take someone like Bont (ala Griff in 2014) to express the need for a new environment till we actually review what's happening?

[bulldogtragic]

Yes...But the issue is why so many players have expressed the need for 'a new environment' over the last 24 months.

Is it going to take someone like Bont (ala Griff in 2014) to express the need for a new environment till we actually review what's happening?

Yes.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes...But the issue is why so many players have expressed the need for 'a new environment' over the last 24 months.

Is it going to take someone like Bont (ala Griff in 2014) to express the need for a new environment till we actually review what's happening?

It’s alarming how many continue to cover their eyes with an unwavering belief in the club, particularly on the weight of evidence to suggest we are a shambles and have been for close to 3 years now.

Like you said, it’s going to take a Bont/Macrae to leave for some to wake up.

[Grantysghost]

Jordan had a really good game again today, I'll be the first to put my hand up and say I didn't think he would make a good defender. In the words of Mark Williams - you were wrong ! (you being me).

[bornadog]

I admire your stubborn ability to be a company man to the last, BAD.

All some of us are saying is that we can take the words of Dahl, Stringer, etc.. with a grain of salt, but when a team leader and highly respected player such as Roughy makes some measured assertions, they should not be swept under the carpet. If we don't listen, we don't learn.

Nothing to do with being a company man and I wish you and others wouldn't say that.

I just like to hear two sides to every story. Anything wrong with that.

[Ghost Dog]

I admire your stubborn ability to be a company man to the last, BAD.

All some of us are saying is that we can take the words of Dahl, Stringer, etc.. with a grain of salt, but when a team leader and highly respected player such as Roughy makes some measured assertions, they should not be swept under the carpet. If we don't listen, we don't learn.

I read the article and looked to find something critical of our coaching team. It says he got stale, working at the same place for 10 years. ( understandable ) Either not playing or playing somewhere else ( could mean not getting picked, which he wasn't ). A doctor doesn't jump to conclusions. If we really want to the club to surgically fix this situation, have to appreciate that what we think on the outside is not necessarily going to be the truth. But yeah it is DEFINITELY time to rack one in the book of grudges for letting Jordan go early. Defo not happy with 3 years at this ladder position and our lack of leadership on field is under the pump. Losing Roughy did not help at all. At a time when we are trying to make Ballarat our fortress we kicked out our number 1 Ballarat warrior!! Stupid, marketing gold, wasted. And @BAD, respect you also for going into bat for the club ( "company man" I would change to "loyalist of fans").

[Bulldog4life]

Nothing to do with being a company man and I wish you and others wouldn't say that.

I just like to hear two sides to every story. Anything wrong with that.

I probably fall into that category too BAD. I think it stems from over the many years of supporting the doggies and constantly sticking up for them when I was younger. Against the Bumber supporters and Woods supporters for example where there seemed to be a lot of them at school where I went to in Yarraville. It stays with you forever. I do understand how others feel though as it is a very frustrating time at the moment and I am as puzzled at our decline as you all.

[bornadog]

I probably fall into that category too BAD. I think it steems from over the many years of supporting the doggies and constantly sticking up for them when I was younger. Against the Bumber supporters and Woods supporters for example where there seemed to be a lot of them at school where I went to in Yarraville. It stays with you forever. I do understand how others feel though as it is a very frustrating time at the moment and I am as puzzled at our decline as you all.

I go by the moto, don't believe anything you read and half of what you hear.

[Twodogs]

Jordan had a really good game again today, I'll be the first to put my hand up and say I didn't think he would make a good defender. In the words of Mark Williams - you were wrong ! (you being me).

Hang on. Doesn't that make you Mark Williams? Or does it mean you are Alan Scott?

[Ozza]

I was certainly in the minority, but actually felt that a fair portion of Roughead's best footy for us was as a tall defender. He played the role in the worst of times, where the defenders were getting exposed by us being poor defensively in the middle when Griff, Coons & Higgins - and to a certain extent Boyd, were all ball hunters and didn't defend, and the ball was coming in pretty easily. Thought Rough battled along pretty well most of the time despite this.

Easy to say in hindsight, but the way the game is being played at the moment, where apart from centre stoppages - teams move the ball via a series of short kicks, and then end up going in long and high - Roughead is quite well suited.

[Grantysghost]

Hang on. Doesn't that make you Mark Williams? Or does it mean you are Alan Scott?

God which is worse. I'll take Mark.

[Twodogs]

God which is worse. I'll take Mark.

Scott is richer.

[ledge]

Yes...But the issue is why so many players have expressed the need for 'a new environment' over the last 24 months.

Is it going to take someone like Bont (ala Griff in 2014) to express the need for a new environment till we actually review what's happening?

Ten years at the club was struggling to get a game, we obviously didn’t rate him or he would have been playing and offered a bigger contract.
Stringer and Dahlhaus completely different, although I do think Luke needed to change.
And to be honest we weren’t really interested in keeping any that left or we would have signed them earlier and with a decent contract.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Ten years at the club was struggling to get a game, we obviously didn’t rate him or he would have been playing and offered a bigger contract.
Stringer and Dahlhaus completely different, although I do think Luke needed to change.
And to be honest we weren’t really interested in keeping any that left or we would have signed them earlier and with a decent contract.

Both Roughy and Dahl have had the big advantage of walking into top teams which makes an enormous difference. We will always rate them highly as Premiership players

[1eyedog]

Roughy sour grapes? Assuming he is having a dig which I'm not convinced he is. I mean what's e going to say I was crap or I wasn't rated? Wasn't rated by Bevo or is not in future plans so was pushed out. Let's face it he was floundering and we lament list cloggers. Strange to bring in Hayes but there you go we clearly wanted running depth.

Glad he's doing well.

[SonofScray]

Yes.

It's only a matter of time.

[westdog54]

Nothing to do with being a company man and I wish you and others wouldn't say that.

I just like to hear two sides to every story. Anything wrong with that.

So we flatly dismiss anything that the club chooses not to respond to.

You'd struggle to find a better clubman than Jordan Roughead. He was a dependable leader and a positive influence on our playing group.

There's nothing wrong with wanting two sides to every story. There's plenty wrong with being so dismissive of someone of Jordan's character.

[Axe Man]

Scott is richer.

But far less alive.

[bornadog]

So we flatly dismiss anything that the club chooses not to respond to.

You'd struggle to find a better clubman than Jordan Roughead. He was a dependable leader and a positive influence on our playing group.

There's nothing wrong with wanting two sides to every story. There's plenty wrong with being so dismissive of someone of Jordan's character.

Really????

Who is being dismissive of Jordans character?

I just take articles in the paper with a grain of salt.

Also this


Roughy sour grapes? Assuming he is having a dig which I'm not convinced he is. I mean what's e going to say I was crap or I wasn't rated? Wasn't rated by Bevo or is not in future plans so was pushed out. Let's face it he was floundering and we lament list cloggers. Strange to bring in Hayes but there you go we clearly wanted running depth.


Glad he's doing well.

[Topdog]

Nothing to do with being a company man and I wish you and others wouldn't say that.

I just like to hear two sides to every story. Anything wrong with that.

But you will never hear the second side of this story so what do you do?

[bornadog]

But you will never hear the second side of this story so what do you do?

Have your own opinion but don't put down other people's opinion.

[Rocket Science]

There's a bitter irony in a bloke being deemed not good enough for a bottom-four club but being plenty good enough for a likely premier.

I too felt Roughy was just getting by with us and yes life's easier with more quality around you but it makes you ponder the talent we're squandering purely because we're shithouse.

I hope Roughy adds another premiership medallion to his collection this year.

It'll also mean the Cats don't.

Win win.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There's a bitter irony in a bloke being deemed not good enough for a bottom-four club but being plenty good enough for a likely premier.

I too felt Roughy was just getting by with us and yes life's easier with more quality around you but it makes you ponder the talent we're squandering purely because we're shithouse.

I hope Roughy adds another premiership medallion to his collection this year.

It'll also mean the Cats don't.

Win win.

This.

I might buy a Collingwood jumper for the day if it means supporting anyone other than Geelong.

[bornadog]

This.

I might buy a Collingwood jumper for the day if it means supporting anyone other than Geelong.

Can't stand Geelong.

[westdog54]

Really????

Who is being dismissive of Jordans character?

I just take articles in the paper with a grain of salt.

Also this

Read the post properly.

I said dismissing 'someone of Jordan's Character', not 'dismissing Jordan's character'.

I've a lot of respect for you and always will, but you're losing me on this one.

[Axe Man]

DOES BEVERIDGE DESERVE CRITICISM FOR ROUGHEAD EXIT? (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/06/24/does-beveridge-deserve-criticism-for-roughead-exit/?fbclid=IwAR1TkfYLRhaPVaeC7QWphuNu4otQWM_D_edDdJaKpTFm3yVknw 4Vxww5lMI)

On Sunday afternoon, Collingwood played three tall forwards for the first time this year against the Western Bulldogs.

They did this against a team that has struggled greatly against key forwards in 2019.

Part of the Bulldogs' difficulty has come from a lack of key defenders, with premiership player Jordan Roughead joining the Pies in the trade period.

Roughead has played every game for Collingwood this year as a key defender and has been a rock in defence for them.

Former Essendon captain Tim Watson believes Roughead and Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge simply didn’t see eye to eye in his last few years at the club.

“I think it was just a personality breakdown with the coach,” Watson told SEN Breakfast.

“I think the coach maybe wanted him to be a player that was capable of playing at the other end of the ground and didn’t see him as possibly where he’s best suited and that is as a key position defender.

“After a while, the player stops believing in the coach and the coach stops believing in the player and the best thing that both can do is part ways.”

Former St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt finds the whole situation surrounding Roughead’s departure odd.

“It’s strange for the breakdown to occur so soon after a premiership. He’d checked out in the back half of last year,” Riewoldt said.

Roughead said as much when asked by the Herald Sun earlier in the year.

"I honestly genuinely believe a lot of it was the staleness of getting in the car every morning and driving over the West Gate Bridge to the only place that I have ever worked,” he said.

"I got drafted to the Bulldogs when I'd just turned 18, I was coming up 28 and hadn't had a different perspective. I'd had the same coach or coaches for five years and I just needed a refresher.

"I needed some different opinions and different perspectives to develop me as a person as much as a footballer.

"There were probably three or four conversations and moments throughout last year and I made the decision midway through to start looking for a new home.

"It had got to the point where it probably would have been not play, over playing for the Bulldogs, so I knew that I needed a fresh look at it and a clean slate to start again.

"I still had the belief. I still believed in myself and my ability. I knew that with players and coaches around me that believed in me then I would be able to get out there and play some good footy."

[mjp]

"I still had the belief. I still believed in myself and my ability. I knew that with players and coaches around me that believed in me then I would be able to get out there and play some good footy."

Bont spoke about this 'On the couch' last night...was interesting.

If his team-mates recognised his struggles-and Bont seemed to be saying they did...then...what did they do about it?

Seemed like a question begging to be asked, but...

[Happy Days]

I don't want to retcon my attitude towards Roughy's departure because in no universe did I think that he would be going this well or even playing at the Pies, but if this is true then it's another black mark about Bevo's ability to navigate personality conflicts in what is growing to be quite a daunting rap sheet.

[jeemak]

I don't want to retcon my attitude towards Roughy's departure because in no universe did I think that he would be going this well or even playing at the Pies, but if this is true then it's another black mark about Bevo's ability to navigate personality conflicts in what is growing to be quite a daunting rap sheet.

I mean really. Tim Watson said the coach had one view about where the player best plays or could benefit the team, and the player had another, and now we're calling it a personality conflict?

This is just typical SEN crap and the reason why the station and its content makes you brain dead.

[Happy Days]

I mean really. Tim Watson said the coach had one view about where the player best plays or could benefit the team, and the player had another, and now we're calling it a personality conflict?

This is just typical SEN crap and the reason why the station and its content makes you brain dead.

It's probably nothing, but I'm starting to lose my ability to give Bevo the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and I don't think it's an unfair inference for Watson to make.

We know that Bevo does not have the best temperament when challenged, and we know that several players, including Roughy, have stated their desire for a change in environment. We also know that Roughy is likely playing better footy now than he ever did with us. That's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence building up.

[bornadog]

It's probably nothing, but I'm starting to lose my ability to give Bevo the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and I don't think it's an unfair inference for Watson to make.

We know that Bevo does not have the best temperament when challenged, and we know that several players, including Roughy, have stated their desire for a change in environment. We also know that Roughy is likely playing better footy now than he ever did with us. That's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence building up.

Roughead, Dahl - who else? It's not as if it is an epidemic. Happens at every single club.

[Mofra]

I'd imagine it's impossible for all 44 players to see eye to eye with a coach.

Malthouse one said the last guy picked in the team thinks you're a genius, the first guy to miss out thinks you're an idiot.

[KT31]

It's probably nothing, but I'm starting to lose my ability to give Bevo the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and I don't think it's an unfair inference for Watson to make.

We know that Bevo does not have the best temperament when challenged, and we know that several players, including Roughy, have stated their desire for a change in environment. We also know that Roughy is likely playing better footy now than he ever did with us. That's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence building up.

IMO players who leave clubs, more than not have a decent season or two at their new club before falling into old habits.
Wrongly or rightly if you are saying Bevo failed Dahl and Roughie, you must also give credit for the turn around of players who have joined our list ( Suckers, Lloyd etc )

[jeemak]

It's probably nothing, but I'm starting to lose my ability to give Bevo the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and I don't think it's an unfair inference for Watson to make.

We know that Bevo does not have the best temperament when challenged, and we know that several players, including Roughy, have stated their desire for a change in environment. We also know that Roughy is likely playing better footy now than he ever did with us. That's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence building up.

Watson talks of a personality breakdown over where the coach wants the player to play versus where the player wants to play. Is it possible that Watson has poorly articulated what he actually meant?

I agree that Bevo shows he can be prickly when challenged, but this to me seems to be an issue where a player is not preferred over others by the coach, feels he is not being played to the position best suited, got stale and needed a change.

[G-Mo77]

It's probably nothing, but I'm starting to lose my ability to give Bevo the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and I don't think it's an unfair inference for Watson to make.

We know that Bevo does not have the best temperament when challenged, and we know that several players, including Roughy, have stated their desire for a change in environment. We also know that Roughy is likely playing better footy now than he ever did with us. That's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence building up.

Yeah that is where I sit right now as well. The Watson quote is just a guess on his behalf so I see no real merit in it but the article from Roughy were he is quoted is from a while back speaks volumes. I'm not putting my fingers in my ears and hands over my eyes saying everything is great. There is or was an issue and we need to rectify it. Start by getting some new coaches and fresh ideas into the coaching box an idea most of the forum here agree with, that would be a great start.

[The Pie Man]

Those who know the game more intimately than I do - how does our defence structure up compared to Collingwoods?

I imagine we set a high premium on pace in our back half given how high a line we play, meaning the likes of Roberts & Rough don't fit.

Is that fair or not that simple?

[Hotdog60]

Who ever was on Roughy needed to lead at the ball carrier and Roughy wouldn't have got a look in.
Defending is his best position because as a forward he was on par with Will Minson.
He was ok as a ruck but not great. Very grateful for his efforts to get us a flag but I've moved on.

[bornadog]

Who ever was on Roughy needed to lead at the ball carrier and Roughy wouldn't have got a look in.
Defending is his best position because as a forward he was on par with Will Minson.
He was ok as a ruck but not great. Very grateful for his efforts to get us a flag but I've moved on.

Me too.

[Doc26]

"I honestly genuinely believe a lot of it was the staleness of getting in the car every morning and driving over the West Gate Bridge to the only place that I have ever worked,” he said.

"I got drafted to the Bulldogs when I'd just turned 18, I was coming up 28 and hadn't had a different perspective. I'd had the same coach or coaches for five years and I just needed a refresher.

"I needed some different opinions and different perspectives to develop me as a person as much as a footballer.

"There were probably three or four conversations and moments throughout last year and I made the decision midway through to start looking for a new home.

Whilst I’m reluctant to place much blame on Bevo I do hope that Roughy’s sentiment above is not lost on Chris Grant and Peter.

If we are bringing in players from 18, and 11 years on, in such a demanding workplace, and expect to maintain their enthusiasm, and to leverage their leadership credentials for the next batch coming through then it is incumbent on our Football Operations to continue to reinvigorate / changeover those charged with developing and mentoring to avoid our players becoming stale and looking for a new experience by mid season. Keep Bevo on to steer the ship but I do hope that we we undertake a serious refresh of his lieutenants.

Reading Roughy’s words I hope that Toby is not in that place of disillusionment that Rough was in last season.

[SonofScray]

Reading Roughy’s words I hope that Toby is not in that place of disillusionment that Rough was in last season. The scuttle butt I had heard suggested he was pretty down on the coach late last year and through the preseason. It's a worry IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Roughead, Dahl - who else? It's not as if it is an epidemic. Happens at every single club.

Stringer
Boyd
M Boyd wasn't happy with Bev
Adams

All unhappy at the club, some shifted some retired.

Good premiership winning clubs get the best out of their best 22 players. We haven't. We just lose them.


It's a definite pattern

[bornadog]

Stringer
Boyd
M Boyd wasn't happy with Bev
Adams

All unhappy at the club, some shifted some retired.

Good premiership winning clubs get the best out of their best 22 players. We haven't. We just lose them.


It's a definite pattern

Are you joking putting Stringer amongst that list. Matty Boyd was retiring anyhow, and Adams ...mmmmm

[Bulldog4life]

Stringer
Boyd
M Boyd wasn't happy with Bev
Adams

All unhappy at the club, some shifted some retired.

Good premiership winning clubs get the best out of their best 22 players. We haven't. We just lose them.


It's a definite pattern

First I have heard of that one.

[LostDoggy]

Are you joking putting Stringer amongst that list. Matty Boyd was retiring anyhow, and Adams ...mmmmm


Stringer was apparently unmanageable. It turns out that another club can manage him just fine.

And Adams talk of a fresh start when he left could have been ripped straight from Dahl and Rough's playbook.

Biggs another who prematurely retired as he couldn't get motivated.

Now Jong can't handle footy anymore...

And there is a host of players playing nowhere near their optimum since 16. A host.

Something is wrong.

[bornadog]

Stringer was apparently unmanageable. It turns out that another club can manage him just fine.

And Adams talk of a fresh start when he left could have been ripped straight from Dahl and Rough's playbook.

Biggs another who prematurely retired as he couldn't get motivated.

Now Jong can't handle footy anymore...

And there is a host of players playing nowhere near their optimum since 16. A host.

Something is wrong.

Yep we are totally *!*!*!*!ed :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Yep we are totally *!*!*!*!ed :rolleyes:

Fair dinkum that wasn't what I said. Something is wrong.

Flag winners to missing finals 3 yrs running and likely bottom 6 with a young list. Plus best 22 players regularly giving up on the club. And I'm out of order saying something is wrong?

I can tolerate your blind support of virtually everything the club does, what I don't tolerate is you taking the piss and being an obnoxious flog towards me and anyone who disagrees with you.

You are the main reason I rarely post here

[bornadog]

I can tolerate your blind support of virtually everything the club does, what I don't tolerate is you taking the piss and being an obnoxious flog towards me and anyone who disagrees with you.

You are the main reason I rarely post here

I never make it personal, unlike you.

[bulldogtragic]

At the risk of getting drawn into this, he's played all the first 14 games at the pies this year. I think he only did that twice (at most) with us. I wonder how they manage his body to get that result. It's terrific for him and them.

[AndrewP6]

Plus best 22 players regularly giving up on the club

Who are the best 22 players regularly giving up on the club? Dahlhaus, that’s one. Roughy wasn’t best 22 over the last couple of years with us. Stringer didn’t ‘give up’, we’d had enough of him. Hamling left to be with his sick father. Adams? Bahahaha.

[AshMac]

First I have heard of that one.

I can’t quote the source but I remember reading that Bevo didn’t want to give M Boyd a fairwell game - Peter Gordon personally steeped in and overruled - which does sound odd but end of 2017 season was shot.

I watched his retirement announcement and he thanked every person at the club except Bevo.

[bulldogtragic]

Who are the best 22 players regularly giving up on the club? Dahlhaus, that’s one. Roughy wasn’t best 22 over the last couple of years with us. Stringer didn’t ‘give up’, we’d had enough of him. Hamling left to be with his sick father. Adams? Bahahaha.

I think they’ve previously said Biggs quit/retired & Redders, Boyd & Cloke quit/retired with contracts. I’m not getting in the middle of this, especially after a win. But they have previous posts. Anyhoo, we won.

[LostDoggy]

P
Stringer
Boyd
M Boyd wasn't happy with Bev
Adams

All unhappy at the club, some shifted some retired.

Good premiership winning clubs get the best out of their best 22 players. We haven't. We just lose them.


It's a definite pattern

Roughy is the only one we got wrong in my humble opinion, that was due to our disrespect for the ruck position. Rough is a ver decent Blackman but we played him in ruck.

[bornadog]

Congratulations to Jordan Roughead on 200 games

138 games with the Westernbulldogs

2016 Premiership player

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9HI-sJUcAMGXmx?format=jpg&name=medium

[MrMahatma]

Wouldn't hurt to have him in our squad right now. Either for ruck or KPD.

[Mofra]

Yep he'd be playing this week for us for sure is on our list

[macca]

I really don't understand what happened to Roughhead in his last year on our list. His best position is downback, can hold his own against most players, and provides a chop out in the ruck.

Were the coaches trying to turn him into something else ?

Were there flaws in his game which could not be rectified?

You can never have enough depth in terms of capable big men.

I felt it was a real shame losing him.

[Vred]

Should of been a one club for life player.
Should of still been on our list.
Yeah, body was cooked in the ruck, he wasn't a number 1 ruck, but *!*!*!*! he was solid as shit down back.

Still perplexed we got rid of such a good clubman, another Bevo *!*!*!*! up.

Congrats on the 200 games.

[jeemak]

Should of been a one club for life player.
Should of still been on our list.
Yeah, body was cooked in the ruck, he wasn't a number 1 ruck, but *!*!*!*! he was solid as shit down back.

Still perplexed we got rid of such a good clubman, another Bevo *!*!*!*! up.

Congrats on the 200 games.

So you supported him being used as a defender for us when most didn't?

Good on him for carving more games out. I agree he'd be serviceable for us now in his current role, but I don't see how that would have eventuated under Bevo.

It's a massive shame he felt he needed to leave, or was force to, or whatever. He's a Bulldogs legend and I wish him well.

[GVGjr]

So you supported him being used as a defender for us when most didn't?

Good on him for carving more games out. I agree he'd be serviceable for us now in his current role, but I don't see how that would have eventuated under Bevo.

It's a massive shame he felt he needed to leave, or was force to, or whatever. He's a Bulldogs legend and I wish him well.

He performed pretty well as a defender for us and most of the angst on here with the decision to play him there was because B-Mac made it.
If it had have been Eade or someone else who moved him there it would have been accepted by more people.
Most Collingwood supporters I talk to think he's done well as a key defender for them.

Having said that his preference was to play as the first ruck for us but he just had to accept the challenge.

[hujsh]

A lot of revisionist history goes on with Roughead. He was great in 2016 but his body kept breaking down in the ruck which was what everyone agreed was his best role and the role in the side we needed him to fill. He hadn't played defense, aside from as a very occasional stop gap, in years. He's performing better in defense with Collingwood than he did for us and good on him for making it work.

[EasternWest]

A lot of revisionist history goes on with Roughead. He was great in 2016 but his body kept breaking down in the ruck which was what everyone agreed was his best role and the role in the side we needed him to fill. He hadn't played defense, aside from as a very occasional stop gap, in years. He's performing better in defense with Collingwood than he did for us and good on him for making it work.

This is exactly right. I loved Jordan but it was clear it wasn't working out with us.

Sometimes players need to move on to get a reset and that's what happened with him. I'm happy for him.

[bornadog]

He performed pretty well as a defender for us and most of the angst on here with the decision to play him there was because B-Mac made it.
If it had have been Eade or someone else who moved him there it would have been accepted by more people.
Most Collingwood supporters I talk to think he's done well as a key defender for them.

Having said that his preference was to play as the first ruck for us but he just had to accept the challenge.

I was one that didn't like moving Roughead back as we had Lake. Unfortunately, BMacc thought Lake was done as a Backman and told him he would never play back again at the Bulldogs, and he would move him forward.

Good on Roughy to do well in the backline.

[Ozza]

I always thought he was a reasonable tall defender, and after Matthew Scarlett publically said that Roughead had big potential there, was willing to back that view.

I think there was some frustration with Jordan that every game he seemed to go down with what looked like a season ending injury during the game and then come back 15 minutes later.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Well done Roughy - terrific guy and deserves all the success that has come his way

[Mantis]

I always thought he was a reasonable tall defender, and after Matthew Scarlett publically said that Roughead had big potential there, was willing to back that view.

I have bad memories of Rough's time as a defender in late 2014 when battling with a bung shoulder he was taken to the cleaners by Carlisle (8 goals) and his cousin (6 goals) in successive weeks. He didn't play in that position much after that with us and I didn't believe he could fulfill the role as he is now.


I think there was some frustration with Jordan that every game he seemed to go down with what looked like a season ending injury during the game and then come back 15 minutes later.

Yep, his durability was a concern... my family and I had running bets on how many times Roughy would end up in the hands of the trainers each game.



But great effort by Roughy to get to 200... so glad he overcame the eye injury and made a great contribution to our GF win.. will never forget his mark after JJ's disallowed goal.. was huge in the context of the game.

[Ghost Dog]

We were too quick to pull the trigger if form was the only question.
His recent form at Collingwood is evidence of that.
Got bashed around in the ruck too much.
But adding the other factor, with injuries there was always a cloud over him.
Collingwood is the biggest club in Australia with medical resources that probably helped him get the most out of himself.

He's my favourite ex, if that doesn't odd. Ballarat boy now playing for Australia's biggest club. Well done.

[GVGjr]

We were too quick to pull the trigger if form was the only question.
His recent form at Collingwood is evidence of that.
Got bashed around in the ruck too much.
But adding the other factor, with injuries there was always a cloud over him.
Collingwood is the biggest club in Australia with medical resources that probably helped him get the most out of himself.

He's my favourite ex, if that doesn't odd. Ballarat boy now playing for Australia's biggest club. Well done.

We lost both he and Campbell at the same time. It seems like it was a real flag in the sand moment about how we valued rucks

[bornadog]

PIES SHOCK: Veteran defender hangs up the boots (https://www.afl.com.au/news/768186/pies-shock-veteran-defender-hangs-up-the-boots)

COLLINGWOOD defender Jordan Roughead has retired.
The former Western Bulldogs backman and 2016 premiership player is understood to have addressed his teammates on Friday morning to announce his decision.

It comes as the 31-year-old has battled ongoing shoulder injuries in recent times including surgery in February this year, with a finger injury also sidelining him this season (https://www.afl.com.au/news/758333/jordan-rougheads-rough-year-continues-with-finger-issue-still-holding-him-back).

https://resources.afl.com.au/photo-resources/2022/05/10/8e0a23c8-fe6b-4431-80d7-97e0010435be/Roughead.jpg?width=1064&height=600


Jordan Roughead at Collingwood training on March 16, 2022. Picture: Getty Images

Roughead made the call over a number of weeks and was not driven by the Pies to make the decision ahead of next week's NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft, although it will open a second selection for the club to use if it chooses.

He played only one game this season with his absence hurting the club's key defensive stocks.

Roughead joined the Magpies at the end of 2018, having played 138 games for the Bulldogs since debuting in 2010.

That included playing all bar one game in the club's historic 2016 premiership season, with Roughead a pivotal part of its flag by taking on ruck duties throughout that campaign under coach Luke Beveridge in the Dogs' magic ride to the drought-breaking premiership.

https://resources.afl.com.au/photo-resources/2022/05/26/a9446783-baaf-4ddd-ba7b-c0f307044aa8/GFSyWB16AT8437.jpeg?width=1064&height=600


Jordan Roughead celebrates the 2016 premiership triumph with the Western Bulldogs. Picture: AFL Photos

He joined the Pies at a bargain rate two years later in exchange for pick 75 and played every game the following year as the Magpies made it to the preliminary final, with his versatility a key part of his game throughout his career.

The 201-gamer, who is a cousin of Hawthorn great Jarryd, has also taken a keen interest in the club's AFLW side through a coaching role.
The Magpies already had an open spot to be used at the mid-season draft via the season-ending shoulder injury to recruit Nathan Kreuger.

[Bulldog4life]

In my eyes Roughy will always be a doggie. Come back to the fold son.

[Grantysghost]

I always had a soft spot for Roughy, seems like a genuinely good guy.

I wasn't sure about his footy ability but he's such an integral part of our history now he's a bonafide Bulldog legend.

The eye of JORDAN!

Wonder if he will try his hand at coaching. I've got a memory somewhere he had done some in the past maybe?

[Axe Man]

Wonder if he will try his hand at coaching. I've got a memory somewhere he had done some in the past maybe?

I'm pretty sure he helped out with our AFLW team whilst he was with us.

[GVGjr]

I like Roughy, it will be interesting to see his next steps.

[The Underdog]

Thanks Bulldog Premiership legend.
Will always remember watching him limp around on the G in bare feet post GF looking like like the most relieved and tired man I've seen.

[angelopetraglia]

His body let him down badly towards the end of his stint at the Dogs and it is no suprise that his body is now forcing him to retire.

Played a crucial role in our 2016 campaign playing 25 games. My lasting memory is that when JJ had his "goal" overturned and we are only nine points up with six minutes to play. Sydney went straight down the middle with a long kick, if it got over the back we would have been in trouble. Roughead takes a towering pack mark in between about four Swans. It was a crucial moment in that last quarter.

Thank you Jordan and I'm sure we will see him progress his coaching career somewhere in the AFL system. One of the good ones.

[azabob]

I always had a soft spot for Roughy, seems like a genuinely good guy.

I wasn't sure about his footy ability but he's such an integral part of our history now he's a bonafide Bulldog legend.

The eye of JORDAN!

Wonder if he will try his hand at coaching. I've got a memory somewhere he had done some in the past maybe?

Didn't get to the bottom of the article GG? ;)

[azabob]

His body let him down badly towards the end of his stint at the Dogs and it is no suprise that his body is now forcing him to retire. Played a crucial role in our 2016 campaign playing 25 games. My lasting memory is that when JJ had his "goal" overturned and we are only nine points up with six minutes to play. Sydney went straight down the middle with a long kick, if it got over the back we would have been in trouble. Roughead takes a towering pack mark in between about four Swans. It was a crucial moment in that last quarter.

Thank you Jordan and I'm sure we will see him progress his coaching career somewhere in the AFL system. One of the good ones.

Love this post AP.

[azabob]

Jordan Roughead, what a warrior for our club.

[angelopetraglia]

This is what it is all about. How good is that smile.

https://resources.collingwoodfc.com.au/photo-resources/2021/08/20/6d6daa1b-7b57-444d-bd97-55a655743a9b/GFSyWB16AT6574.jpg?width=1064&height=600

[Grantysghost]

Didn't get to the bottom of the article GG? ;)

I just look at the pictures ;)