What makes a good kicker?

[Dry Rot]

Gilbee is one of best kicks in our team, Morris and Cross among the worst. What is the difference with their kicking? Simple mechanics? Technique? Something about their legs?

How much of a good (or bad) kicker is natural and how much can be taught? Can players like Morris and Cross ever improve their kicking?

(Kicking with your other foot and where you kick it/decision making are also relevant too)

[GVGjr]

Very complex set of questions there DR and I'd think mjp and a couple of others might be best placed to answer them.

Some people are natural kicks but a lot aren't. I think in the days of the athlete over the pure footballer has contributed to a declining standard.
A lot of it comes down to decision making and as mjp has often mentioned, a bad kick to the right position is still better than a good kick to the wrong one.

I have seen some very good kicks (from a technical perspective) turn the ball over repeatedly in games because they made poor decision or just couldn't cope with the pressure.

It's funny, as technically correct and effective Gilbee is with his around the ground kicking, his standards aren't as slick when he is having a set shot for goal and someone is on the mark. Rohan Smith had a similar issue.

[dog town]

Pure talent is the main factor with guys like Gilbee. You cant get that good just through practice and technique.

Personally I have never been huge on technique with kicking. We are just about the only sport that involves kicking that discourages kicking around corners. Pretty much every other sport has the kicker using one leg for a base and swinging your whole body across to get power. In AFL as kids we are taught to run straight when we kick but I am not completely sure this is the way to go. Our goal kicking accuracy is horrendous as a code and a lot of experts are starting to think we might have it wrong. I know with my self its really more of a feel thing. I do find I kick with more accuracy if everything is running straight but whether thats because its how I have always practiced I am not sure. A lot of the best kicks in the game approach from an angle so maybe there is something there. Watch Brown, Gilbee, Johnstone (actually dont think he is a great kick) , Eagleton, Griffen etc they all run in an arc before they kick. Gerard Healy has made some good points about this in the past.

I have never put the arc thing into practice my self. I just try and keep everything straight with my head over the ball and then follow through when I kick. Seems to work but it certainly doesn't make for that penetrating bullet like kicking.

Most of the aboriginals are really good with deft kicking. They get very good weight on the ball and most of them kick with the toe pointed whereas as most people put the full foot through the ball

[dog town]

Physical attributes can effect it as well. Lanky people tend to struggle because it is a bgger ball drop. The further the ball has to travel from your hand to the foot the more that can go wrong. Daniel Cross can struggle because of this.

[LostDoggy]

Good topic..

I love seeing gilbee about to kick the ball cause you know its gunna hit the target 95% of the time

When Cross is running with the ball you tend to cringe and expect hopefully a quick handpass off to someone who can put the boot into it

[ledge]

Physical attributes can effect it as well. Lanky people tend to struggle because it is a bgger ball drop. The further the ball has to travel from your hand to the foot the more that can go wrong. Daniel Cross can struggle because of this.

I wouldnt call Cross lanky.

[ledge]

I have never put the arc thing into practice my self. I just try and keep everything straight with my head over the ball and then follow through when I kick. Seems to work but it certainly doesn't make for that penetrating bullet like kicking.

Richard Osborne was brilliant with the arc, once he started to run on the arc it was a goal you just knew it.

[gohardorgohome]

Physical attributes can effect it as well. Lanky people tend to struggle because it is a bgger ball drop. The further the ball has to travel from your hand to the foot the more that can go wrong. Daniel Cross can struggle because of this.

I'm not sure if being lanky is a disadvantage Laurie Keene from west coast was a great kick. I could never work out what makes a long kick. I 'm stronger than most guys but could not kick more than 45 metres. I would think its mostly timing. If someone knows the secret I would love to know it to pass onto my son.

[Twodogs]

Personally I have never been huge on technique with kicking.




Disagree strongly. Kicking technique equates to doing all the correct things automatically so that you get optimum benefit from your action. If you stand up straight, balance yourself and keep your head over the ball at the point of impact then you cant go wrong-the ball will go straight and spin in the right direction. It's a fairly simple thing to make sure that all the elements are right.



This is why I couldnt understand Jason Dunstall (A far better kick than I will ever be) saying midseason that nothing could be done about Buddy's kicking action until the preseason. From where I sat Buddy was doing nearly everything wrong in his action and could have been improved in one or two sessions.

[westdog54]

Pure talent is the main factor with guys like Gilbee. You cant get that good just through practice and technique.

Personally I have never been huge on technique with kicking. We are just about the only sport that involves kicking that discourages kicking around corners. Pretty much every other sport has the kicker using one leg for a base and swinging your whole body across to get power. In AFL as kids we are taught to run straight when we kick but I am not completely sure this is the way to go. Our goal kicking accuracy is horrendous as a code and a lot of experts are starting to think we might have it wrong. I know with my self its really more of a feel thing. I do find I kick with more accuracy if everything is running straight but whether thats because its how I have always practiced I am not sure. A lot of the best kicks in the game approach from an angle so maybe there is something there. Watch Brown, Gilbee, Johnstone (actually dont think he is a great kick) , Eagleton, Griffen etc they all run in an arc before they kick. Gerard Healy has made some good points about this in the past.

I have never put the arc thing into practice my self. I just try and keep everything straight with my head over the ball and then follow through when I kick. Seems to work but it certainly doesn't make for that penetrating bullet like kicking.

Most of the aboriginals are really good with deft kicking. They get very good weight on the ball and most of them kick with the toe pointed whereas as most people put the full foot through the ball

Gerard Healy wrote a comment piece a while ago on this very topic, and said that the Rocca brothers were a great example to watch because the run in on a slight angle and they get a full leg-swing.

Its funny though, you watch older videos of goalkickers in the two rugby codes (as recent as the early-mid 80's) and they're still running in straight to the ball for shots at goal.

With me, my kicking is pretty horrendous at the best of times, but I'll sometimes get a purple patch where I'm just striking them beautifully.

[dog town]

Disagree strongly. Kicking technique equates to doing all the correct things automatically so that you get optimum benefit from your action. If you stand up straight, balance yourself and keep your head over the ball at the point of impact then you cant go wrong-the ball will go straight and spin in the right direction. It's a fairly simple thing to make sure that all the elements are right.



This is why I couldnt understand Jason Dunstall (A far better kick than I will ever be) saying midseason that nothing could be done about Buddy's kicking action until the preseason. From where I sat Buddy was doing nearly everything wrong in his action and could have been improved in one or two sessions. Yeah but how many guys with what many would consider poor techniques are really some of the better kicks going around? Obviously there are some non negotiables with your technique but so many guys with home spun techniques are just fantastic kicks. Look at Nathan Brown.

[dog town]

I wouldnt call Cross lanky. Got long legs.

[LostDoggy]

There's certainly something to be said for distance and vision as well -- some of Aker's bombs into the top of the square are not so much pin-point as long and beautifully weighted. Aker's not a big guy but he does have huge thighs, though, so timing is important but of course natural attributes contribute.

As such, everybody would have an optimal kicking style -- kids who grow up discovering it for themselves will have an advantage over guys learning it by the numbers when they hit the system. Pure footballers like Hirdy or some of the indigenous boys can kick it with the inside or outside of the foot, around the corner, pass it 90 or 120 degrees to their right or left, often with very little backlift or a short stabbing motion when time and space are tight, because they know from instinct honed by thousands of hours kicking the thing exactly what is required for the final result, which is something I think all this focus on technique often misses -- instinctively understanding what the purpose of a kick is before executing it. Since there is often no time on the park to think, instinctive vision that allows you to minimise error or kick it to advantage becomes more important than technique. That's also where often teaching tactics to athletes instead of footballers can fall down because it becomes a paint by numbers 'bomb it into the square' business instead of being able to work out instinctively and on the run what the best decision in any situation is.

So, for kids, I would suggest letting them work out their own style by setting them targets and goals instead of teaching them 'pure technique' as such -- ie. better to say (for example) 'kick straight at this tree 20 metres away', and leave them to it for hours, instead of 'do it like this'. Then a good coach can come in and do little brushing up of a kids natural style instead of imposing technique from day one. You may get technically perfect results the alternative way, but you'll never get independent, creative, strategic thinkers and problem solvers, which are worth their weight in gold.

[gohardorgohome]

I wonder if Rod Austin would be made to change kicking style if he was a kid today

[Happy Days]

I don't think the angled run-in is the solution...

Buddy Franklin uses it and he's one of the worst set shots in the leauge.

[Twodogs]

Yeah but how many guys with what many would consider poor techniques are really some of the better kicks going around? Obviously there are some non negotiables with your technique but so many guys with home spun techniques are just fantastic kicks. Look at Nathan Brown.



Agreed there are some awful kicks who get the job done and I wouldnt fix them if they aint broken. I was talking about blokes who just need to improve like Franklyn-that moronic way he takes set shots really annoys me for some reason.

[westdog54]

I don't think the angled run-in is the solution...

Buddy Franklin uses it and he's one of the worst set shots in the leauge.

Buddy Franklin's entire technique is wrong. His run-in, the ball drop, the kicking action itself, can't blame the run in for his problems.

[LostDoggy]

Buddy Franklin's entire technique is wrong. His run-in, the ball drop, the kicking action itself, can't blame the run in for his problems.

How many goals would he have kicked last year if he could kick straight? Frightening prospect. The quicker Tommy Gun gets to 50 games the better I say.

[westdog54]

Agreed there are some awful kicks who get the job done and I wouldnt fix them if they aint broken. I was talking about blokes who just need to improve like Franklyn-that moronic way he takes set shots really annoys me for some reason.

If I were a Hawthorn supporter it would annoy me because I know how good he is, and how much better he could be. This kid has the best chance of breaking Hudson and Pratt's goalkicking record, a record many thought would never be broken, and he's blowing it because he's lazy with his set shots for goal.

[ledge]

Wasnt there a player who was great on the run but couldnt hit the side of a barn door when having a set shot, so was told to run in from a long way so it was like he was on the run?

[soupman]

Wasnt there a player who was great on the run but couldnt hit the side of a barn door when having a set shot, so was told to run in from a long way so it was like he was on the run?

That would be me.

[wimberga]

Players like Fevola look to have really good technique when kicking from set shots. Fev doesnt always put it through the middle but if you watch the ball, it almost always sails of his boot and stays dead straight all the way, so missing the goals might be an alignment issue for him.

Compare this to someone like say, Griffen. Griff has a very sweeping motion with his foot and tends to have an odd ball drop that is not textbook. if you watch most of Griffens kicks, they are often curved balls that start out one side and bend in to where he is aiming. that said he is still quite penetrating and quite accurate with his kicking.

Both these methods can be effective, so its really how you use your kicks that counts the most

[hujsh]

Pure talent is the main factor with guys like Gilbee. You cant get that good just through practice and technique.

Personally I have never been huge on technique with kicking. We are just about the only sport that involves kicking that discourages kicking around corners. Pretty much every other sport has the kicker using one leg for a base and swinging your whole body across to get power. In AFL as kids we are taught to run straight when we kick but I am not completely sure this is the way to go. Our goal kicking accuracy is horrendous as a code and a lot of experts are starting to think we might have it wrong. I know with my self its really more of a feel thing. I do find I kick with more accuracy if everything is running straight but whether thats because its how I have always practiced I am not sure. A lot of the best kicks in the game approach from an angle so maybe there is something there. Watch Brown, Gilbee, Johnstone (actually dont think he is a great kick) , Eagleton, Griffen etc they all run in an arc before they kick. Gerard Healy has made some good points about this in the past.

I have never put the arc thing into practice my self. I just try and keep everything straight with my head over the ball and then follow through when I kick. Seems to work but it certainly doesn't make for that penetrating bullet like kicking.

Most of the aboriginals are really good with deft kicking. They get very good weight on the ball and most of them kick with the toe pointed whereas as most people put the full foot through the ball

I learnt to kick it around the corner and my kicking is inconsistent at best so i would say straight is the way to go

[ledge]

That would be me.

I cant recall, I am not suggesting it was a Bulldog player either, but I do remember it being suggested or reported in a paper somewhere in the 80s-90s.
Looking back over the years, there is probably a few players who might have been told that or could have used the advice.
Richard Osborne,Rocca, Franklin even Lindsay Gilbee I think would be a good idea.

[LostDoggy]

Matthew Lloyd keeps it as straight as possible to keep it simple and has a great record (albeit a lot of shots probably from 30-40 directly in front). In anything KISS seems the best method, Keep It Simple Stupid, but at the same rate I agree if it ain't broke don't fix it.
As for the ARC method, I think you should only use it if you are genuinely struggling for distance as I believe the hooking motion in a game of footy allows for a greater error rate (How accurate was Billy in his day?).
When you consider rugby league/union they generally use the arc for set shots whereas football can sometimes lend to more goals being scored in play than by set shot.

Horses for courses.

[Bulldog Revolution]

This is why I couldnt understand Jason Dunstall (A far better kick than I will ever be) saying midseason that nothing could be done about Buddy's kicking action until the preseason. From where I sat Buddy was doing nearly everything wrong in his action and could have been improved in one or two sessions.



Technique is crucial - It's all about repitition and muscle memory

My take on Dunstalls comments

I think they'd tinkered with Buddy at times and it made the situation worse, because then he was caught between the wrong way (which his muscles remembered) and the new improved way, which he had to think about.

So the last thing they wanted was him thinking in front of goals so they just wanted to do it naturally, so they reverted to the old and decided to tweak it in the off season where he could get sufficient repititions (10,000) to form new muscle memory.

[Twodogs]

Compare this to someone like say, Griffen. Griff has a very sweeping motion with his foot and tends to have an odd ball drop that is not textbook. if you watch most of Griffens kicks, they are often curved balls that start out one side and bend in to where he is aiming. that said he is still quite penetrating and quite accurate with his kicking.





That's a classic left foot trait. I dont know why but left foot kicks always veer off to the left and then allign themselves to the target as they reach the end of it's path. It doesnt happen to right footers and I cant understand it.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Simon Beasley had one of the best conversion rates of the prolific goal kickers. He had a very deliberate technique, slow approach, bowed over the ball, head down at impact with a very straight follow through.

[Dry Rot]

What about the yips?

Why does a reliable kicker just lose it, and why does this sometimes spread throughout the team?

[craigsahibee]

Players like Fevola look to have really good technique when kicking from set shots. Fev doesnt always put it through the middle but if you watch the ball, it almost always sails of his boot and stays dead straight all the way, so missing the goals might be an alignment issue for him.

Compare this to someone like say, Griffen. Griff has a very sweeping motion with his foot and tends to have an odd ball drop that is not textbook. if you watch most of Griffens kicks, they are often curved balls that start out one side and bend in to where he is aiming. that said he is still quite penetrating and quite accurate with his kicking.

Both these methods can be effective, so its really how you use your kicks that counts the most

When drafted Scott Clayton described him as the best kick in the world.

[wimberga]

When drafted Scott Clayton described him as the best kick in the world.

Who are you talking about there C, Griff or Fevola?

[craigsahibee]

Who are you talking about there C, Griff or Fevola?

Scott Clayton only drafted Griff. I wouldn't waste a keystroke talking about the tool from Carlton.