Rate the Engine Room!

[Cyberdoggie]

The Engine Room!

this is where it all happens.

Grand Final's are often won and lost on the quality of the ball magnests that each side posseses in the middle of the field. Whether they be speedy runners, inside work horses, or skillfull leaders, the right combination of all is essential if a side wants to be there in september.

As we are in the pre-season (silly season) it's always nice to put up hypotheticals posts and to bring out the Nostradamus within, so i thought i'd list each clubs main midfielders and rate them in order as i see it for the coming season. (excluding the ruckmen)

I'm interested in seeing how other people rate them, it's actually not easy.



1. Geelong - Corey, Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Kelly,
2. Western Bulldogs - Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Boyd, Eagleton, Higgins, Gia
3. Brisbane - Power, Black, Rischitelli, Rich, Johnstone, Dalziell,
4. Carlton - Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Scotland,
5. Hawthorn - Mitchell, Ladson, Bateman, Lewis, Osborne, Young, Sewell
6. Adelaide - Thompson, Edwards, Goodwin, Van Berlo, Doughty,
7. Richmond - Deledio, Tuck, Cotchin, Cousins, Coughlan, Foley, Johnson, Polo, Tambling
8. Port Adelaide - K Cornes, Cassisi, S Burgoyne, Pearce, Rodan,
9. North Melbourne - Harvey, Simpson, Harris, Wells, Ziebell, Power, Swallow,
10. StKilda - Hayes, Montagna, Dal Santo, Baker, Ball, Ray,
11. Collingwood - Swan, Pendlebury, Lockyer, O'Bree, Wellingham, Beams, Maxwell,
12. Sydney - Kirk, Bolton, McVeigh, Goodes, Ablett, Crouch, Jack, Shaw,
13. WCE - Embley, Priddis, Selwood, Rosa, Fletcher, Ebert, Kerr, Masten, Stenglein
14. Fremantle - Palmer, Crowley, Hasleby, Hill, Ibbotson, Peake, Schammer
15. Essendon - Stanton, Watson, Houli, Lonergan, McVeigh, Monfries, Skipworth
16. Melbourne - Bruce, Green, McDonald, Jones, Dunn, Moloney, McLean

[GVGjr]

This will take some time, very difficult indeed.

[Mantis]

You missed Sewell from Hawthorn who is one of their better midfielder's.

Would like to see the difference adding a ruckman into the mix makes.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What that tells me is that it's

Geelong

Daylight

Dogs

More daylight

Everyone else



It also tells me Hawthorn have a pretty decent forward line.

[GVGjr]

What that tells me is that it's

Geelong

Daylight

Dogs

More daylight

Everyone else



It also tells me Hawthorn have a pretty decent forward line.

I think you add Sewell to the Hawks midfield list that that Cyberdoggie provided it is a very accountable and direct into the forward line group.

I also think the Carlton midfielder group could just about cover us at the moment.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think you add Sewell to the Hawks midfield list that that Cyberdoggie provided it is a very accountable and direct into the forward line group.

I also think the Carlton midfielder group could just about cover us at the moment.

I think we've fairly easily got them covered.

Judd - Cooney, both go OK.
Gibbs/Murphy - Griffen/Higgins (some talent in this group!)

Not much in it so far.


Stevens (unaccountable hack) - Eagleton (I'll leave it for Mantis or Cyberdoggie to say it).
Carazzo/Scotland (workhorses) - Cross/Boyd (better workhorses)

And our part-timers are much better than theirs as well - Gia, Aker and Johnno.

[Dogs 24/7]

I think we've fairly easily got them covered.

Judd - Cooney, both go OK.
Gibbs/Murphy - Griffen/Higgins (some talent in this group!)

Not much in it so far.


Stevens (unaccountable hack) - Eagleton (I'll leave it for Mantis or Cyberdoggie to say it).
Carazzo/Scotland (workhorses) - Cross/Boyd (better workhorses)

And our part-timers are much better than theirs as well - Gia, Aker and Johnno.

I know what you are saying but its still a very good outfit and I think Stevens is better than portrayed.

[Scraggers]

I also think the Carlton midfielder group could just about cover us at the moment.

Agreed ...

Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Scotland (Simpson and Hadley)
Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Boyd, Eagleton, Higgins, Gia

Judd is in a league of his own ... I don't think their is a midfielder in the game that can match him when he is on ... having said that

I rank our front runners (Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Higgins) well above theirs (Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs)

Where I think we get beaten is our second string attack.

When you consider Andrew Carrazzo and Heath Scotland and you could easily add Kade Simpson and Richard Hadley to the mix, our second tier of Boyd, Gia and Eagleton doesn't look as strong.

[Mofra]

Where I think we get beaten is our second string attack.

When you consider Andrew Carrazzo and Heath Scotland and you could easily add Kade Simpson and Richard Hadley to the mix, our second tier of Boyd, Gia and Eagleton doesn't look as strong.
Gia is sorely underrated here - a guy who has clean disposal in traffic, and matched O'Keefe stat for stat playing off the bench is better than Carrazzo or Scotland.

Having said that, Carrazzo is better than most rate him as well.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Agreed ...

Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Scotland (Simpson and Hadley)
Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Boyd, Eagleton, Higgins, Gia

Judd is in a league of his own ... I don't think their is a midfielder in the game that can match him when he is on ... having said that

I rank our front runners (Cooney, Griffen, Cross, Higgins) well above theirs (Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs)

Where I think we get beaten is our second string attack.

When you consider Andrew Carrazzo and Heath Scotland and you could easily add Kade Simpson and Richard Hadley to the mix, our second tier of Boyd, Gia and Eagleton doesn't look as strong.

If you want to get into 2nd string and part time midfielders, a couple of geriatrics in Akermanis and Johnson go alright.

[azabob]

I think we've fairly easily got them covered.

Judd - Cooney, both go OK.
Gibbs/Murphy - Griffen/Higgins (some talent in this group!)

Not much in it so far.


Stevens (unaccountable hack) - Eagleton (I'll leave it for Mantis or Cyberdoggie to say it).
Carazzo/Scotland (workhorses) - Cross/Boyd (better workhorses)

And our part-timers are much better than theirs as well - Gia, Aker and Johnno.

On paper I agree, but in reality such as 2008 and 2007 Carlton's midfield ran all over ours and destroyed us.

[Mantis]

If you want to get into 2nd string and part time midfielders, a couple of geriatrics in Akermanis and Johnson go alright.

Very debatable.

As a midfielder his field kicking is quite poor, he relies on other's to give him the ball and he ain't to accountable. Johnno should have a wrist band that gives him an electric shock every time he runs past the wing.

Perhaps I can be the one giving out the shocks.... That would be fun.

[Mantis]

I can't believe the love Higgins is getting in this thread. Yeah the kid has potential to become a very good midfielder, but rating him at present with the likes of Gibbs & Murphy is a bit unfair to the Carlton players. At the end of this year it might be a different story, but at present Higgins has no runs on the board as a midfielder.

[LostDoggy]

I can't believe the love Scotland is getting.
If Carlton has the 4th best midfield and almost a 100 (almost) goal per year forward then why did they finish well outside the 8?
There defence and maybe their ruck is crap but I don't think the Hawks are great there either.

[hujsh]

Hawks midfield looked much better with Hodge in it.

Agree with Sockeye but i think Stevens is still much better than Eagle. They do share some similar bad qualities i suppose.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I can't believe the love Higgins is getting in this thread. Yeah the kid has potential to become a very good midfielder, but rating him at present with the likes of Gibbs & Murphy is a bit unfair to the Carlton players. At the end of this year it might be a different story, but at present Higgins has no runs on the board as a midfielder.

In reality Gibbs, Murphy, Griffen and Higgins are all rated higher than their output so far in their careers, but it's clear that all 4 are going to be very good.

[Scraggers]

Gia is sorely underrated here - a guy who has clean disposal in traffic, and matched O'Keefe stat for stat playing off the bench is better than Carrazzo or Scotland.

Having said that, Carrazzo is better than most rate him as well.

I think it was two/three years ago Carrazzo absolutely flogged our midfield and (almost) single-handedly won the game for them ...

[Cyberdoggie]

I can't believe the love Scotland is getting.
If Carlton has the 4th best midfield and almost a 100 (almost) goal per year forward then why did they finish well outside the 8?
There defence and maybe their ruck is crap but I don't think the Hawks are great there either.

I think it comes down to an all round team. Carlton don't have that at the moment.
Their defence is bad and fev is the only one that really kicks goals for them in the forward line. Their young list has some talent but you wouldn't expect them to improve that much to make them a real contender in one year.

[Cyberdoggie]

I can't believe the love Higgins is getting in this thread. Yeah the kid has potential to become a very good midfielder, but rating him at present with the likes of Gibbs & Murphy is a bit unfair to the Carlton players. At the end of this year it might be a different story, but at present Higgins has no runs on the board as a midfielder.

He is getting the love, and it's certainly not warranted just yet.

I put him in there as i felt he will get a lot of time in the midfield this year.
I think he may impress us early in the season before the opposition sides start to take more of a look at him and tag him like they did Cooney and Griffen.

I tortured myself recently and went back and watch the prelim from last year. He was very good but like several others missed a couple of goals he should of kicked. I've seen him twice this year and he's looking much quicker and fitter. Last year he didn't have much pace or endurance after the injury lay off.

[Cyberdoggie]

Was interesting watching the Collingwood vs Richmond game tonight.
I felt collingwood were far more polished, and the tigers skill errors were awful.
The also played the Wallet style of basketball football with implied pressure rather than running hard. Collingwood also finished strongly suggesting that they are much fitter.

I rated the Tigers midfield higher based purely on potential. Cotchin, Coghlan, Deledio, Cousins could be an awesome lineup but if they don't get any support from the rest of the side they may struggle this year. Perhaps there is a little too much hype surounding them? :confused:

[Go_Dogs]

Was interesting watching the Collingwood vs Richmond game tonight.
I felt collingwood were far more polished, and the tigers skill errors were awful.
The also played the Wallet style of basketball football with implied pressure rather than running hard. Collingwood also finished strongly suggesting that they are much fitter.

I rated the Tigers midfield higher based purely on potential. Cotchin, Coghlan, Deledio, Cousins could be an awesome lineup but if they don't get any support from the rest of the side they may struggle this year. Perhaps there is a little too much hype surounding them? :confused:

Yeah, I tend to agree re: Richmond. I also think Collingwood are going to have a pretty good year. Loads of talented players.


Midfield wise, I think we are up there with most teams. Do we include a guy like Hill too? He mainly plays wing and offers a lot of good, contrasting qualities to our mix.

I think in 2-3 years time, we will have the best midfield group going around. Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Ward and Hill can all be top liners.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Its an incredible group Geelong have

Hawthorns is underrated - they absolutely smashed us in the finals. I'd probably add Hodge to that mix, even if he does peel off the back most of the time

Carltons is good - and clearly Judd gives them an Ablett like x-factor. I've been a bit sceptical of the Higgins bandwagon but I'm now close to convinced. Everything I've seen pre-season suggests to me he is ahead of Gibbs, but he needs to produce some real footy (i.e regular season).

Stevens is overpaid, but perhaps underrated and the plan seems to be to have him at half back in 2009 for the Blues.

I would have thought when you add Simpson and Hadley to the mix and compare them with Gia and Boyd we have more depth, as I think our guys have more impact on the game. Boyds not got a lot of love preseason but I think he's pretty good.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hawthorns is underrated - they absolutely smashed us in the finals. I'd probably add Hodge to that mix, even if he does peel off the back most of the time



Hodge is sensational, and I'd go a step further and say that sweeper role deserves to be included as another midfielder.

Gilbee goes alright at it, too.

Geelong use Mackie and/or Milburn.

I don't really know who Carlton use in that role, Stevens sometimes, I suppose.

[Mantis]

I don't really know who Carlton use in that role, Stevens sometimes, I suppose.

Scotland spends a fair bit of his time playing off half back.

There was much discussion in Carlton's game last week that Stevens is being groomed for this type of role as well.

[LostDoggy]

Stevens is overpaid, but perhaps underrated and the plan seems to be to have him at half back in 2009 for the Blues.


Under-rated? I think Sheahan had him in his top 50 current players list. That's as over-rated as they come.

Didn't even have Cooney, Griff, Cross, Boyd, Morris, Lake, or Aker on the list, and had Stevens at 23, ahead of Murph and Gilbee, and ahead of guys like Andrew Mcleod, Barry Hall, Kane Cornes, Ryan O'Keefe, Luke Power, Nathan Bock and Joel Corey !

Sheahan is such a hack it's not funny.

[Mofra]

Was interesting watching the Collingwood vs Richmond game tonight.
I felt collingwood were far more polished, and the tigers skill errors were awful.
The also played the Wallet style of basketball football with implied pressure rather than running hard. Collingwood also finished strongly suggesting that they are much fitter.

Only saw pieces of the game - did Richmond really end up with 0 tackles on defenders inside their forward 50? If so that is woeful, and their best midfield wont make much of a difference anyway as the opposition sets up on the rebound without any pressure.

[LostDoggy]

Was as rubbish a game of AFL as I've ever watched. Commentators talking up both teams as one is Collingwood and the other one has Cousins in it, but on the evidence, neither will be making the eight. (of course Collingwood has its entire forwardline to come back in)

If both teams play like that over the year they will be ripped to bits -- zones were slow in defence: players with quick feet and quality disposal will waltz around them, ball movement was terrible moving forward, better teams will lap up the rebound.

The full-field zone defence only works if you have thinking, intelligent players. Well, for example, Jordan McMahon isn't exactly the brightest spark in the shed (how many turnovers?!). Pick 19 was a steal!

-- You have to love the Richmond supporters talking up their club before coming back down to earth with a almighty thud come the real thing. Won't go near the 8. Well, maybe they WILL finish 9th.

(ps. Deledio did some nice things, and Alex Rance will be a gun.)

[Mantis]

Was as rubbish a game of AFL as I've ever watched. Commentators talking up both teams as one is Collingwood and the other one has Cousins in it, but on the evidence, neither will be making the eight. (of course Collingwood has its entire forwardline to come back in)

If both teams play like that over the year they will be ripped to bits -- zones were slow in defence: players with quick feet and quality disposal will waltz around them, ball movement was terrible moving forward, better teams will lap up the rebound.

The full-field zone defence only works if you have thinking, intelligent players. Well, for example, Jordan McMahon isn't exactly the brightest spark in the shed (how many turnovers?!). Pick 19 was a steal!

-- You have to love the Richmond supporters talking up their club before coming back down to earth with a almighty thud come the real thing. Won't go near the 8. Well, maybe they WILL finish 9th.

(ps. Deledio did some nice things, and Alex Rance will be a gun.)

Do they?

They were missing Medhurst & Rocca (who is probably finished), but besides Rusling who has hardly played a game in 2 years I can't recall who else was missing.

[azabob]

Was as rubbish a game of AFL as I've ever watched. Commentators talking up both teams as one is Collingwood and the other one has Cousins in it, but on the evidence, neither will be making the eight. (of course Collingwood has its entire forwardline to come back in)

If both teams play like that over the year they will be ripped to bits -- zones were slow in defence: players with quick feet and quality disposal will waltz around them, ball movement was terrible moving forward, better teams will lap up the rebound.

The full-field zone defence only works if you have thinking, intelligent players. Well, for example, Jordan McMahon isn't exactly the brightest spark in the shed (how many turnovers?!). Pick 19 was a steal!

-- You have to love the Richmond supporters talking up their club before coming back down to earth with a almighty thud come the real thing. Won't go near the 8. Well, maybe they WILL finish 9th.

(ps. Deledio did some nice things, and Alex Rance will be a gun.)

Its a NAB Cup game, the result or how teams go about it doesnt mean much at all. IMO both will make the 8.
It was a rubbish game, cause it is a rubbish comp.

[hujsh]

Was interesting watching the Collingwood vs Richmond game tonight.
I felt collingwood were far more polished, and the tigers skill errors were awful.
The also played the Wallet style of basketball football with implied pressure rather than running hard. Collingwood also finished strongly suggesting that they are much fitter.

I rated the Tigers midfield higher based purely on potential. Cotchin, Coghlan, Deledio, Cousins could be an awesome lineup but if they don't get any support from the rest of the side they may struggle this year. Perhaps there is a little too much hype surounding them? :confused:

Those two have had injury problems so i doubt we'll actually see that group at full flight. Tuck does Ok at getting the ball though.

[KT31]

On paper I agree, but in reality such as 2008 and 2007 Carlton's midfield ran all over ours and destroyed us.

Any midfield would run over us if you don't tag them.
Stevens and Judd where allowed to roam free and we suffered the consiquences.

[ledge]

If thats what Richmond is offering up this year Mr Wallace wont see the season out.
The old fashioned run back and flood.

Did i hear one of the commentators mention McMahon is one of their best kicks?

After last nights coverage have Ricmond changed their name and become the Cousins football club?
The bloke sat on the bench and they thought that was more important to show than the game!

Cousins is not a saviour and no single player is when teams consist of 20 odd players, I dont blame Cousins, Im sure he would like the press to shut up about it.
The bloke was a drug user but its like he is a hero.
Wake up media and concentrate on the more deserving good guys of football, eg Richo, Brown (Brisbane) the list goes on.

[Mantis]

If thats what Richmond is offering up this year Mr Wallace wont see the season out.
The old fashioned run back and flood.



It's not just Richmond that are playing this style...

[Bumper Bulldogs]

[QUOTE=Sockeye Salmon;71881]I think we've fairly easily got them covered.

Stevens (unaccountable hack) - Eagleton (I'll leave it for Mantis or Cyberdoggie to say it).
Carazzo/Scotland (workhorses) - Cross/Boyd (better workhorses)

The big difference here is that Stevens use of the ball kills Eagle, likewise for Scotland on Cross/Boyd.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

At the end of this year it might be a different story, but at present Higgins has no runs on the board as a midfielder.

Spot on, I keep getting flashbacks to the day we played the Eagles and Rocket put Higgins into the midfield and told him to lock down Cousins on his return, he didn't have the motor or the accountability or interest to get the job done for even 5 minutes.

I hope he had learnt from this as his has good skills but an under developed heart.

Hope that I'm proven wrong.