Mike Sheahan's Top 50

[BulldogBelle]

Well Mike Sheehan's top 50 is out...

Only three Bulldogs made his list...Cooney, Morris & Griffen.

Here is the link

Top 50 (http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/Top_fifty_AFL/index.html)

and also his article - Mike Sheahan's top 50 (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25190069-19742,00.html)


Mike Sheahan
Herald Sun
Mon 16th March

----

1. Gary Ablett Jr
2. Chris Judd
3. Lance Franklin
4. Dean Cox
5. Luke Hodge
6. Brendan Fevola
7. Jonathon Brown
8. Nick Reiwoldt
9. Matthew Pavlich
10. Matthew Scarlett
11. Jimmy Bartel
12. Simon Black
13. Adam Cooney
14. Joel Corey
15. Matthew Richardson
16. Brent Harvey
17. Adam Goodes
18. Shane Burgoyne
19. Daniel Kerr
20. Chad Cornes
21. Darren Glass
22. Jarryd Roughead
23. Dale Morris
24. Cameron Ling
25. Sam Mitchell
26. Sam Fisher
27. Joel Selwood
28. Brad Sewell
29. Steve Johnson
30. Luke Power
31. Alan Didak
32. Ryan O’Keefe
33. Brad Ottens
34. Daniel Bradshaw
35. Paul Chapman
36. Nathan Bock
37. Dane Swan
38. Jarrad McVeigh
39. Scott Pendlebury
40. Simon Goodwin
41. Brett Delidio
42. Ryan Griffen
43. Travis Cloke
44. Brendan Goddard
45. Chance Bateman
46. Dale Thomas
47. Drew Petrie
48. Cane Cornes

[Scraggers]

49. Grant Birchall
50. Bryce Gibbs
:)

[Rocket Science]

These things are inherently prone to being picked apart, and obviously intended to generate debate if nothing else, but there's a few headscratchers in this year's edition for mine.

It's odd...In a nod to more recent deeds he's jumped the gun on Jarrad McVeigh's at #38 with a bullet, while seemingly rating blokes like Chad Cornes (#20) and Darren Glass (#21) on efforts of campaigns past, which isn't to doubt their credentials as quality players so much as more honestly appraise their past 12 months.

Too High:
Matthew Richardson
Chad Cornes
Darren Glass
Dale Morris
Brad Ottens
Alan Didak
Ryan Griffen
Dale Thomas
Drew Petrie
Grant Birchall
Bryce Gibbs

Too Low:
Sam Mitchell
Kane Cornes
Brendon Goddard

Arguable Omissions:
Lindsay Gilbee
Scott Thompson
Daniel Cross
Aaron Sandilands
Leon Davis
Robert Murphy

Also, nice to see the oft overlooked 3rd Burgoyne brother finally get some recognition at #18.

[Bulldog Revolution]

41. Brett Delidio - very surprised he is in the list

I dont doubt his ability, or potential, but for me he just does not produce consistently enough

Murphy just has to be on the that list

[Go_Dogs]

41. Brett Delidio - very surprised he is in the list

I dont doubt his ability, or potential, but for me he just does not produce consistently enough

Murphy just has to be on the that list

Had a pretty decent season last year, if Griff makes it so should Delidio.




Pretty good effort imo, not an easy task by any means.

[LostDoggy]

Arguable Omissions:
Leon Davis


??? Why?
Cos he plays for Collingwood?

[LostDoggy]

Dale Thomas 46! Now thats funny.

[BulldogBelle]

;)
49. Grant Birchall
50. Bryce Gibbs


Thanks Scraggers - I was just testing to see if anyone picked that up. ;)

[BulldogBelle]

Dale Thomas 46! Now thats funny.

It is funny...Sheahan placing Thomas ahead of Gilbee. Guess it is only Sheahan's paid opinion.

[GVGjr]

Scott Thompson is a most surprising omission. He had a terrific season in 2008 and I'd have him in the top 30.

[bornadog]

It is funny...Sheahan placing Thomas ahead of Gilbee. Guess it is only Sheahan's paid opinion.

Yes, what a joke, Dale Thomas so far is just an ordinary player and I would rank 95% of our top 22 players ahead of him. Sure he has potential, but god Sheahan give us a break.:mad:

[GVGjr]

Yes, what a joke, Dale Thomas so far is just an ordinary player and I would rank 95% of our top 22 players ahead of him. Sure he has potential, but god Sheahan give us a break.:mad:

I don't rate him as a top 50 player at the moment either but in my opinion you appear to be underrating him if you have lumped him into a rating of an ordinary player with potential.

[LostDoggy]

I don't rate him as a top 50 player at the moment either but in my opinion you appear to be underrating him if you have lumped him into a rating of an ordinary player with potential.

Good outside player at best. Hasn't got the frame or speed to seriously take a game apart, he doesn't like the hard stuff and their isn't a football attribute that he excells in.

[LostDoggy]

Er.

Pendlebury, Bateman, BIRCHALL, GIBBS and THOMAS ahead of Bob Murphy, Nathan Foley, Gilbee and Sandilands?

The latter four influence every game they take part in, they just don't play for Carlton or Collingwood or go on footy shows.

Fevola ahead of both Brown and Riewoldt? The latter two are franchise players that clubs build entire generations and teams around, Fev is a one-trick pony (admittedly a very good trick) with a penchant for being a more disruptive influence on his club than anyone else on the list, and has been threatened with being traded away by every AFL coach he's ever had.

Sheahan is, if not the biggest hack in the industry, bloody close to it.. at least this year's 50 is MUCH better than last year's.

[Topdog]

I haven't taken an interest in these tihngs for 3-4 years now but isn't Mike's Top 50 not based on last year but who he thinks will be the top 50 at the end of the 2009 season?

[soupman]

I haven't taken an interest in these tihngs for 3-4 years now but isn't Mike's Top 50 not based on last year but who he thinks will be the top 50 at the end of the 2009 season?

Yep. Thats exactly right. So thats why players like Dale Thomas are ranked higher than a Robert Murphy, and also why Ryan Griffen makes it.

The list at the moment is really quite meaningless, but at the end of the year when the players can be ranked more accurately it serves as a good comparism, kind of like a phantom draft and the real thing.

[LostDoggy]

Yep. Thats exactly right. So thats why players like Dale Thomas are ranked higher than a Robert Murphy, and also why Ryan Griffen makes it.

The list at the moment is really quite meaningless, but at the end of the year when the players can be ranked more accurately it serves as a good comparism, kind of like a phantom draft and the real thing.

Still meaningless if Dale Thomas is rated to have a better year than Robert Murphy!

And if what you say is true, then Darren Glass being on the list is completely meaningless. He will be a non-factor by the end of this year. If we were going on potential, Hargrave and Lake are poised to have far better years than a West Coast veteran.

The reality is Sheahan works directly off reputation than any serious analysis.

[always right]

Looks like a stuff-up by someone at the Herald Sun. Dale thomas doesn't appear on the list in the print product and isn't on the on-line version either. I can only assume he appeared on an earlier version of the on-line list.

I also note that he has Enright at 33 in the newspaper but Ottens appears in that spot on-line.

It's difficult to put the list together when you think that the average number of players each team should have is 3 (in theory), Hard to make a case however for Birchall to be in ahead of Gilbee and not be able to squeeze Murph in ahead of about half a dozen others.

[LostDoggy]

10. Scarlett

Way too high.

[LostDoggy]

Cooney 13th? Brownlow Medalist, best of 2008 doesnt make top 10?

Im a Sheehan fan and without being biased Cooney deserves a spot over someone like Pavlich or Brown..

[always right]

Cooney 13th? Brownlow Medalist, best of 2008 doesnt make top 10?

Im a Sheehan fan and without being biased Cooney deserves a spot over someone like Pavlich or Brown..

nah...I think Cooney is about right. Morris is a little suprising but cetainly deserves to be in the top 50. Griffen is a speculative one but personally I'd have Murph ahead of him even if Griff has enourmous potential.

[The Underdog]

Cooney 13th? Brownlow Medalist, best of 2008 doesnt make top 10?

Im a Sheehan fan and without being biased Cooney deserves a spot over someone like Pavlich or Brown..

Sorry you're being biased. Pavlich and Brown deserve to be ahead of him. I couldn't argue with where he's placed in the 50. He was only the top player of 2008 according to the umpires and I'm not about to start respecting their opinions now.

This thing is done to sell papers and cause debate. I'm sure Mike would be disappointed if he didn't at least get a couple of thousand complaints. There is absoloutely no need to take it seriously. It doesn't mean or change anything.

[Scraggers]

;)

Thanks Scraggers - I was just testing to see if anyone picked that up. ;)

No problems ... I thought with the economic cut backs Mike Sheahan could only afford a top 48 this year :D

[Rocket Science]

??? Why?
Cos he plays for Collingwood?

Yeah...in keeping with my demonstrated partiality to the Pies.

If McVeigh deserves a gig then a comparable argument can be made for Davis also, along with a group of others who were omitted but who likewise had a strong 2008, but wouldn't otherwise warrant serious consideration prior to their elevated play last season.

That's the major flaw in the list...is it blokes who've consistently put runs on the board over the past few seasons but might have plateaued?...is it blokes who suddenly broke out last year?...or is it blokes who project to break out this season?...It looks like a hackneyed mish mash of all three.

While I'm at it, those rankled by the inclusion of Thomas (which is justified) should be similarly rankled about Griff getting a gig...both tantalizing talents but haven't achieved much, to date.

[Mantis]

While I'm at it, those rankled by the inclusion of Thomas (which is justified) should be similarly rankled about Griff getting a gig...both tantalizing talents but haven't achieved much, to date.

To be fair to Griffen he was a standout for us in the finals, but agree his selection in this list is based on his potential rather than his achievements thus far.

I would be hoping come the end of the 09 that Griffen would be placed firmly inside Mike's top 20.

[Bulldog Revolution]

McVeigh is a very good player - didn;t he kick 6 against us in Canberra

Thompson is a major ommission

The logic behind Sheahans list isn't clear - does he rate them on potential or where they are at now, it seems he does a bit of both, which makes the logic hard to follow

[hujsh]

Neither Griffin nor Thomas are in the top 50 players in the comp. Maybe someday they will be but they are certainly not now.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Didn't Mike put a few posts in on WOOF a while ago?
Mike?
Are you out there?
MIIIIIIIKKKKEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

[lemmon]

Daniel Cross, Scott Thompson and David Hille are the big ommisions for me. 2 BnF winners and a very good midfielder.

[KT31]

Sorry you're being biased. Pavlich and Brown deserve to be ahead of him. I couldn't argue with where he's placed in the 50. He was only the top player of 2008 according to the umpires and I'm not about to start respecting their opinions now.

This thing is done to sell papers and cause debate. I'm sure Mike would be disappointed if he didn't at least get a couple of thousand complaints. There is absoloutely no need to take it seriously. It doesn't mean or change anything.

Agree on Brown, but Pavlich ,although has heaps of ability, only performs when his team is in front.
And for this reason should be lower or not on the listya at all.
Cross,Lake and Gilbee stiff on missing a spot.

[KT31]

For years Sheehan never rated West and then at the end of his career apologised for underating him.
Me thinks he will end up doing the same to Cross.

[KT31]

Ablett can have top spot if Cooney can have the Brownlows.

[ledge]

Sheehan said Cross was his hardest to miss out but did explain because he cant kick, a good answer i think . You cant get in the top 50 if you cant make the distance from 30 metres out.
He said everything else he does is great though.

[LostDoggy]

Agree on Brown, but Pavlich ,although has heaps of ability, only performs when his team is in front.
And for this reason should be lower or not on the listya at all.
Cross,Lake and Gilbee stiff on missing a spot.

Kidding about Pav dropping off the list altogether.

Can tear a game apart off his own boot, despite playing for most of his career in front of one of the most hopeless midfield combinations in recent memory -- if he were playing for a big club like Collingwood or Carlton, or for any half decent team he would be considered the best, most complete player in town, ahead of Judd, ahead of Abblett, ahead of Franklin.

If Pav played for the Dogs, with Aker and Johnno and Murph and Gia crumbing off him while he kicked 5 or so goals and picked up 25 possessions every game, we would be sitting on three or four premierships by now.

[GVGjr]

Did I see Cyril Rioli named in the top 50 in the paper?

[Mofra]

Daniel Cross, Scott Thompson and David Hille are the big ommisions for me. 2 BnF winners and a very good midfielder.
Thompson easily in front of Gibbs. Even on potential I'd back Thompson's output to be better than Gibbs this year, even ignoring the fact Thompson will get tagged at some stage, whilst Gibbs would be 3rd tagged behind Judd & Murphy, with Scotland getting a run-with player as well if he plays as their quarterback.

[Mantis]

Did I see Cyril Rioli named in the top 50 in the paper?

50 Bryce Gibbs
49 Grant Birchall
48 Kane Cornes
47 Cyril Rioli
46 Drew Petrie
45 Chance Bateman
44 Brendon Goddard
43 Travis Cloke
42 Ryan Griffen
41 Brett Deledio
40 Simon Goodwin

.......

Stole this from a thread on BF, assume the orginal poster copied it correctly.

I didn't know today was April 1?

[mighty_west]

In fairness to Mike, this is just a prediction for '09 top 50 isn't it? if we got all Woof posters to submit their own 50, i bet they would all be different, and most would have players in or out that others would disagree with.

Saying that, no Cross? :eek: He was stiff not to get All Australian honours, also thought Hille & Thompson were stiff, J Selwood could easily be top 5 by the end of the season, and if Higgins has the break through season we are all hoping for, he could also sneak a birth in the 50.

[hujsh]

I thought it was the comps top 50 players mighty west

[azabob]

I thought it was the comps top 50 players mighty west

I think Mighty West is right, the pre season is his prediction for the upcoming season and the end of season is his top 50 from the season just gone.

[The Underdog]

Agree on Brown, but Pavlich ,although has heaps of ability, only performs when his team is in front.
And for this reason should be lower or not on the listya at all.
Cross,Lake and Gilbee stiff on missing a spot.

He performs far more often than his team is in front and if it gets there it's often because of him. I think you're confusing him with Des Headland. If Pavlich isn't a top 20 player in this comp then I'll sew my mouth shut and cut off my fingers. If Freo are a basket case with him then they'd be certifiable without.

Oh and if it's Mike's prediction for 09 then apparently he thinks Scott Thompson will do a knee or get leukemia or gout or something. Or maybe he just forgot about him cos he spent like 3 minutes writing it out between his shopping and listing optometrists.
(I stand by what I said earlier, this is pointless posturing to try and create interest in a newspaper equal to the "NT News" in quality.)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

10. Scarlett

Way too high.

Spot on he is used as per J.Bowden at Richmond was. Easy to get cheap kicks knowing the others have your man covered.

[bold-dogg]

If it's speculation for the season ahead, I'd have Cooney higher and Griffen around 21.
Our footy journo's are just hacks. At the start of every season their ladder predictions are always identical to how teams finished the year before, with a slight change around the bottom of the 8. For guys that spend their whole lives around footy clubs they seem to lack any insight at all.
Bulldog Belle and some of our other senior Woofers seem to watch the game closer, and are better writers too.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

[QUOTE=BulldogBelle;73512] Well the top 5 are OK
1. Gary Ablett Jr
2. Chris Judd
3. Lance Franklin
4. Dean Cox
5. Luke Hodge

The next 5 incorrect
6. Brendan Fevola
7. Jonathon Brown
8. Nick Reiwoldt
9. Matthew Pavlich
10. Matthew Scarlett

Should be like this
6. Adam Cooney
7. B Harvey
8. S Mitchell
9. Jonathan Brown
10. N Reiwoldt

[lemmon]

Spot on he is used as per J.Bowden at Richmond was. Easy to get cheap kicks knowing the others have your man covered.

Dissagree mate, completely differant types of players. Scarletts main weapon is his run and dash from the backline, his possesions hurt the opposition where Bowden is an accumulator. Anyway Im not sure i can remember the last time Geelong chipped the ball around the backline, completely against there style of play which relies on rapid ball movement.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Brad Johnson should be in the top 50. Full stop.

[LostDoggy]

Saying that, no Cross? :eek: He was stiff not to get All Australian honours

Mike didn't put him in, because of his kicking abilities.

But apparently, he was very closing to cracking the 50.

[hujsh]

Mike didn't put him in, because of his kicking abilities.

But apparently, he was very closing to cracking the 50.

Gave the same reason for Thompson as well.

[LostDoggy]

If kicking was such a high priority then where's Gilbee? Already an All-Australian, noted best kick in the league, pretty much created the 'quarterback' role from half-back. Gibbs and Thomas and Birchall ahead of him? Ridiculous.

And I've re-read the preamble to the top 50, and I don't see anywhere that it's supposed to be based 'on potential'. It's just Mike top 50 players, full stop.

And if he's going to pick Dale flippin' Thomas ahead of Brad Johnson that's all I need to know about his footy judgment.

[alwaysadog]

If kicking was such a high priority then where's Gilbee? Already an All-Australian, noted best kick in the league, pretty much created the 'quarterback' role from half-back. Gibbs and Thomas and Birchall ahead of him? Ridiculous.

And I've re-read the preamble to the top 50, and I don't see anywhere that it's supposed to be based 'on potential'. It's just Mike top 50 players, full stop.

And if he's going to pick Dale flippin' Thomas ahead of Brad Johnson that's all I need to know about his footy judgment.

Now there are two words that should never be used in an item that refers to Mike Sheehan. It's both anti axiomatic and self contradictory.