Tap Work vs Mobility vs 2nd Efforts?

[Mofra]

For the ruck watchers out there, I'm wondering what your opinion is when it comes to ruck efficiency.

Obviously everyone would like Dean Cox running around for their club, but that just doesn't happen. Most clubs will look to a no1 ruckman to give them an edge in a specific quality.

There seems to be a trend towards "mobile" ruckman who can play a linking role around the ground. As nice as it is to have this, I'm not entirely convinced it is the be all & end all of ruckman.

Take Hudson for example. Universally admired at the club, I'm not convinced he is that great as a tap ruckman, and he certainly wont get picked for the Grand Final sprint or any mobility contest soon. What he has is a psychotic desire to contest or clear the ball in dispute in the packs - and for mine, this is worth as much as all the mobility in the world. If it wasn't, then Cross would never have played an AFL game.

Roughead has never been touted as an overly mobile youngster (in the Cordy mould for example) but his tapwork is as good as I've ever seen for a young bloke, which will give him an edge over most opponents in at least one aspect of his game. I'm convinced the kid will make the grade.

Just wondering how everyone views the balance in gaining an edge in the ruck?

[LostDoggy]

Who was the last ruckman to be a threat up forward?? I cant remember a recent ruckman with super strong hands.

[Desipura]

As you have mentioned a Dean Cox is very rare in that he combines he strength/mobility with footy smarts, not to mention his ability to link up play and act as an extra onballer.
I believe in the future we will have a Dean Cox............in the form of Roughead and Ayce Cordy.

I think it is a good mix with Roughead to become
-a smart tap ruckman in that he positions himself very well
-strong physique
-can play forward and take a contested mark

Ayce's assets are:
-mobility to link play and act as on additional onballer
-play ruck with his height, a distinct advantage
-can play as a lead up forward and once he builds up will be able to take more contested marks
-footy smarts in that he is a very good reader of the play

[Sockeye Salmon]

For the ruck watchers out there, I'm wondering what your opinion is when it comes to ruck efficiency.

Obviously everyone would like Dean Cox running around for their club, but that just doesn't happen. Most clubs will look to a no1 ruckman to give them an edge in a specific quality.

There seems to be a trend towards "mobile" ruckman who can play a linking role around the ground. As nice as it is to have this, I'm not entirely convinced it is the be all & end all of ruckman.

Take Hudson for example. Universally admired at the club, I'm not convinced he is that great as a tap ruckman, and he certainly wont get picked for the Grand Final sprint or any mobility contest soon. What he has is a psychotic desire to contest or clear the ball in dispute in the packs - and for mine, this is worth as much as all the mobility in the world. If it wasn't, then Cross would never have played an AFL game.

Roughead has never been touted as an overly mobile youngster (in the Cordy mould for example) but his tapwork is as good as I've ever seen for a young bloke, which will give him an edge over most opponents in at least one aspect of his game. I'm convinced the kid will make the grade.

Just wondering how everyone views the balance in gaining an edge in the ruck?

It varies from week to week depending on who you are playing.

Basically there's 3 types of ruckmen.

* The giraffe - Harry Madden, Aaron Sandilands. Win every tap due to their height but do varying levels of everything else; Peter Street did nothing else, Dean Cox does plenty.

* The power ruckman - Jamie Charman, Ben Hudson. Use their strength. The centre line was supposed to be the end for them but they keep on keeping on. They can still be dangerous at boundary throw-ins and around the ground bounces but have to do the heavy work around the clearances to justify their spot.

* The athletes - Jeff White, Luke Darcy. Sacrifice thr ruck contests to have another midfielder.


When we had Scott Wynd and Luke Darcy in tandem, Wallace varied their roles depending on who we played. I remember two games in 97 v North and Hawthorn.

Against North, Corey McKernan was their main man. Darcy rucked for nearly all the first half on McKernan and ran him all over the shop. After half time Scotty came on and beat him up. McKernan was too tired to run Scotty around and Scotty pushed him out of the way at contests.

Against Hawthorn, Scotty rucked nearly the whole first half on Paul Salmon (Hawthorn used Nick Holland as their backup that day). After half time Darcy came on and jumped over the top of Salmon and then ran circles around him all over the ground. The scores were about level at 3/4 time and we won easy.


Hudson and Minson are both power ruckmen. I'd rather one of them be of a different style like Darcy and Wynd were.

[azabob]

Good topic Mofra,

Where will Cordy end up playing? Mainly ruck or forward? I guess that is the question.
Some on this forum think that Roughead will eventually push Minson out due to better ruck work.
When Hudson is gone can anyone see Minson, Cordy, Roughead playing in the same side?
I guess it also depends how Grant, Jones, Boumann and other talls develop, depends on were Cordy is played.

Are we certain that Cordy and Roughead will be playing senior fooball in the future?

As SS said I like the idea of two types of ruckman Wynd / Darcy that way you can have all bases covered.

[LostDoggy]

Brad Ottens

David Hille. Hamish Mcintosh. Drew Petrie. Dean Brogan. Luke Darcy. Ben Graham. Matthew Primus.

[bulldogsman]

Who was the last ruckman to be a threat up forward?? I cant remember a recent ruckman with super strong hands.

There's a few Ottens, Simmonds, Koschitzke, Hille, Hale, Petrie and Lade. I would say Ottens, Koschitzke and Petrie have super strong hands.

[LostDoggy]

Who was the last ruckman to be a threat up forward?? I cant remember a recent ruckman with super strong hands.

David Hale is pretty handy in both ruck and deep forward, in fact so are McIntosh and Petrie come to think of it, could be an issue for us on sunday.

[hujsh]

David Hille. Hamish Mcintosh. Drew Petrie. Dean Brogan. Luke Darcy. Ben Graham. Matthew Primus.

Are you sure he rucked. I don't remember him but have been told he played defence/forward.

[LostDoggy]

Are you sure he rucked. I don't remember him but have been told he played defence/forward.

I suppose he wasn't strictly a ruckman but he did alot of the ruckwork in the forward 50, much in the Rocca mold, I suppose.

[Mofra]

Are we certain that Cordy and Roughead will be playing senior fooball in the future?

As SS said I like the idea of two types of ruckman Wynd / Darcy that way you can have all bases covered.
Roughead & Cordy strike me as very different footballers - pure agility (5th in draft camp!) modern ruckman vs more of an old school power/tap ruckman .

Together they could form a powerful unit, but I would expect Cordy will take some time to fill out (so as not to compromise his athleticism). This is also assuming Shaw can't push anyone out of the side (haven't seen much of him myself, but by all account he is a tap ruckman first & formost).

The other variable is when Cordy will be "ruck-ready". He may be playing senoir football for a while before he is given a chance to ruck for any extended period of time.

[Twodogs]

Who was the last ruckman to be a threat up forward?? I cant remember a recent ruckman with super strong hands.


Brad Ottens


David Hille. Hamish Mcintosh. Drew Petrie. Dean Brogan. Luke Darcy. Ben Graham. Matthew Primus.


Paul Salmon, David Cloke, Glenn Coleman-I could sit here all night writing names.

[LostDoggy]

Paul Salmon, David CLoke, Brad Ottens, Lade i concur.


I wouldnt call Kosi,Graham, Petrie ruckman.

Wouldnt call Primus, Brogan ,Simmonds, Mcintosh threats up forward.

[Happy Days]

Who was the last ruckman to be a threat up forward?? I cant remember a recent ruckman with super strong hands.

Peter Everrit?

[lemmon]

The beauty of the young fellas in Roughead and Cordy is there versatility and that they are such differant players. Roughead is a pure ruckmen, beautiful tapwork, isnt the most agile but can take a good grab. Im not convinced on Cordys ruckwork but jeez you could play the kid anywhere with that build and athleticism. Personally I would like to see Cordy spend most of the time in the forward line, but pinch hit and go in occasionally. My mouth is watering at the thought of these two twin towers in years to come.

[Dry Rot]

Jolly is very useful for the Swans up forward.

[Mofra]

Jolly is very useful for the Swans up forward.
I wonder how much importance Grant Thomas places on Ruckmen now if he watched tonight's game?
Ruck dominance killed the Hawks. The era of the big man is nigh. Thank god we have a couple of good potential rucks on the list

[SonofScray]

It varies from week to week depending on who you are playing.

Basically there's 3 types of ruckmen.

* The giraffe - Harry Madden, Aaron Sandilands. Win every tap due to their height but do varying levels of everything else; Peter Street did nothing else, Dean Cox does plenty.

* The power ruckman - Jamie Charman, Ben Hudson. Use their strength. The centre line was supposed to be the end for them but they keep on keeping on. They can still be dangerous at boundary throw-ins and around the ground bounces but have to do the heavy work around the clearances to justify their spot.

* The athletes - Jeff White, Luke Darcy. Sacrifice thr ruck contests to have another midfielder.


When we had Scott Wynd and Luke Darcy in tandem, Wallace varied their roles depending on who we played. I remember two games in 97 v North and Hawthorn.

Against North, Corey McKernan was their main man. Darcy rucked for nearly all the first half on McKernan and ran him all over the shop. After half time Scotty came on and beat him up. McKernan was too tired to run Scotty around and Scotty pushed him out of the way at contests.

Against Hawthorn, Scotty rucked nearly the whole first half on Paul Salmon (Hawthorn used Nick Holland as their backup that day). After half time Darcy came on and jumped over the top of Salmon and then ran circles around him all over the ground. The scores were about level at 3/4 time and we won easy.


Hudson and Minson are both power ruckmen. I'd rather one of them be of a different style like Darcy and Wynd were.

Very good post.

I'm not sure where Minson fits in really, he is a "power" ruckman you've identified but I don't see the desperation in the clinches from him that you do in the players like Charman and Hudson. At this point in his career he is trying to be a bit of everything, and something else at the same time. Almost a lead up forward and a ruckman. Hopefully with Ayce coming on and further development he can really settle into a niche which suits him and find that real menance in close like Hudson.

[ledge]

I like the thought of the Gary Dempsey type , could mark and ruck, Pity Dempsey had to do all his marking in the back half.
The near on perfect ruck was a Peter Moore could kick goals , ruck and extremely mobile, not many of those around nowadays.
Barnes wasnt too bad.
I think we are looking at Cordy as being one of those and Roughead being more the tap ruck, if this is the case in the future and with Grant up forward , thats a pretty awesome thought.

[Mofra]

I think we are looking at Cordy as being one of those and Roughead being more the tap ruck, if this is the case in the future and with Grant up forward , thats a pretty awesome thought.
It will be interesting to see how they develop - Roughead could well end up the no 1 with Cordy forward (let "Neil" bash & crash with his larger frame to soften the opposition up), then Cordy comes on for 30% or so of ruck duties whilst Roughy rests.

The odd piece in the puzzle is Minson - in 1-2 years time Roughead should be pushing for regular selection with Hudson slowing down, and would expect to be a regular once Hudson retires. Cordy would have hopefully added some size by then (10% of his body weight added already) so we will have Minson in his late 20s (prime ruckman years) contending with two younger types who look the goods.

Assuming a Shaw or Mulligan or anyone else we rookie/draft don't fire, and you never know with a new drafting manager what we'll target. North have 3 solid ruckman + Petrie who can ruck as well.