'The Window': Now, later or both?

[bulldogtragic]

I am a little underworked this afternoon so I have sheets of paper with names and ages and positions spread across the desk.

It would seem our window is very much open at the moment. But is it our best opportunity? Or is the list management been superb to get two windows back to back with different types of lists?

At the moment we are travelling well. However, in the next two years we will lose our no. 1 ruckman in Hudson, gun in Aker, full forwards in Welsh and Johno (Capt) and the Bald Eagle - And likely Wight, O'Shea, Skipper and Stack (If things don't dramatically improve. Plus the obligatory rookies that come and go. Plus Scott Clayton may convince a former mate to head north and play. That is potentially 12 players moving in 2 years - this is a massive number almost as high as a club that is swinging the axe - except ours will have some genuine superstars in the mix.

By the 2012 season most or all will need replacing. From our current stock we have Everitt and Tiller and younger again Grant, Cordy and Roughy (Some smalls look the goods, but the future looks to be in the talls). All highly rated kids, in the 3rd or 4th or 5th season and ready to start to play some serious footy. Whilst Griff, Coon and the like are at their absolute peak and we have some season players around 30 like Hahn, Bob and Gia. But you would imagine the gameplan and style would change as our future is with tall forwards not a mosquito fleet who all kick large numbers of goals. Plus of course we would have new kids come in and Libba and Wallis are looking good and their will be others.

I think the window is open now, but the list management is such that in 2 years it will evolve and the list will change dramatically and if these kids are as good as we think and can develop accordingly, i think the window can stay open with a diffferent team and style for which the current window is open.

If i make sense, i think the list management has been exceptional (providing the kids keep improving they way they are), especially in the face of up to 12 players moving on in 2 years. That could be an excuse in and of itself to fall off the radar, down the ladder dramaticaly and sook like Richmond or North about how much experience is lost... But our recruiting and list management could be that even when our superstars leave, they get replaced with very special players in their own right. (I.e. Smith/West at the end of their careers vs Higgins and Ward getting serious game time - improving the team as the game evolves and quickens).

The window is open for the current list playing this brand of footy. But in thinking forward, the list will evolve and hopefully replace our superstars with some very talented talls. I think that future list playing to its potential can have its own premiership window. Could we, the WBFC, be on the verge of a dynasty?

[LostDoggy]

I don't think its a given Hudson will retire in 2 years, he didn't start playing footy until he was 24.

And from a previous interview, he wants to play for a while yet.

[Happy Days]

Could we, the WBFC, be on the verge of a dynasty?

I don't know about a dynasty.

We might be able to jag one if we're lucky, but Geelong, Hawthorn, and perhaps evn Carlton will make it more than difficult. I'm not saying these guys are better, worse or the same as us, I'm just saying we're not head and shoulders above them to the point where the prospect of them winning would be an afterthought.

FWIW I prefer the clock analogy :D

[LostDoggy]

Are we on the verge of a dynasty?

The short answer is 'yes'.

We have yet to see the true effects of our membership push into the western suburbs, which, despite the global financial crisis, is still growing at a rate of knots. We all know new supporters will take some lag time before they become members, but the groundwork is there. Our facilities are best practice, and no other Melbourne team has a monopoly on a whole half of a city, which is the fastest growing corridor in Australia (much faster than the much touted Gold Coast), giving us a potential supporter base equivalent to some interstate clubs. If we win a premiership or two in the next 4 years don't be surprised to see our membership grow past 50,000.

I know it's hard to imagine, having been an 'outsider' for so long, but the groundwork laid over this past decade must come home to roost sooner or later. We are already seeing signs of this with Mission picking us over several other candidates.

My tip: Circa 2014/2015, watch out for your Caros and Sheahans to start complaining about the 'behemoth in the West' that grew on the back of state government help and the special assistance fund to dominate the competition.

---

ps. GC17 coming in may also be good timing for the Dogs, as we will be one of the teams near the top of the ladder and it will be harder for teams at the bottom to catch up in those years, so we will have ample opportunity to snag one or two flags in that time.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know about a dynasty.

We might be able to jag one if we're lucky, but Geelong, Hawthorn, and perhaps evn Carlton will make it more than difficult. I'm not saying these guys are better, worse or the same as us, I'm just saying we're not head and shoulders above them to the point where the prospect of them winning would be an afterthought.

FWIW I prefer the clock analogy :D

Don't believe the hype: Carlton are no chance. Their list has no real depth to it beyond the obvious candidates, and by the time they get enough finals experience into their legs it will be well past 2012/2013, and Judd will be a veteran. As they stand at the moment they may be able to jag one or two games against some better teams, but they are only one or two injuries away from being a bottom four side.

The last time Carlton won their first 2 games they went on to win the wooden spoon. I'm not saying they're that bad anymore, but 2 wins first up -- one against Richmond, one against an interstate team at the G -- is hardly a form guide to rely on.

[comrade]

I'm not sure about a 'dynasty', but we are well placed. I'm not a huge believer in the 'window' - when you've got a good group and have some luck, you've just got to make every post a winner.

Our midfield is rock solid, as are our backs. Our forward structure relies on Bobby coming back at full strength and Johnno and Aker staying fit.

We can win it this year, no doubt about it. But so can 2 or 3 other teams.

[mjp]

We can win it this year, no doubt about it. But so can 2 or 3 other teams.

The reality is it is probably closer to 6 or 7 who have legitimate claims right now. Much like last year though, you simply need to be playing your absolute best footy in September and also hope you don't run into a red-hot side in an elimination final. Despite their dominance over the last two seasons, Geelong have only one flag to show for it...and dont forget that they nearly missed that opportunity against a Collingwood side that was up and about in prelim final weekend. That would have had a real 'Essendon in 99/Bulldogs in 97' ring to it if they had stuffed that one up.

[mighty_west]

I believe we are in with a real shot this season, all we need is alot of luck with injuries which have cruelled us in the past.

We could however have a Dynasty type of situation if the likes of Grant, Cordy & Roughead really come on in 2-3 seasons time, and take the game on like Buddy & Roughead have done for the Hawks, our backline is set, and will only get better by that time, we have alot of depth in the Midfield as well, so if that forward line can come on like we all hope it will, then watch out, we could be ANYTHING!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Talk of dynasties is somewhat premature.


Hahn, Gilbee and Hargrave all turn 28 this year; Lake, Boyd, Gia, Murphy & Morris all turn 27.

As Allan Jeans used to say, "it's later than you think".


8 blokes is a lot to replace in a season or two.

[aker39]

I don't care about dynasty's.

I just want to win one.

[Cyberdoggie]

Talk of dynasties is somewhat premature.


Hahn, Gilbee and Hargrave all turn 28 this year; Lake, Boyd, Gia, Murphy & Morris all turn 27.

As Allan Jeans used to say, "it's later than you think".


8 blokes is a lot to replace in a season or two.

True, although lists turn over much quicker these days with up to 6 rookies.
We are basically getting 10 odd new guys every year.

While the group mentioned above are crucial, I feel we have recruited well enough to have talent spread through the different age groups. We just have to make sure that we keep pushing that talent through and not draft to fill gaps or neglect young players in a tilt for a flag.

As long as we keep a healthy balance then we should be ok for a while.

There are some doubts over some of the kids we have, although on a plus side a think we can find a couple of tall forward and a ruckman to replace the ones we do or don't have at the moment.

Gilbee skills and Brian Lake as a key position defender will be the hardest to replace.

[Mantis]

I don't care about dynasty's.

I just want to win one.

While that would be great, I just want to make one for a starter. The build-up in the final week to GF day knowing your team is still playing would be sensational.

[bulldogtragic]

While that would be great, I just want to make one for a starter. The build-up in the final week to GF day knowing your team is still playing would be sensational.
Isn't that weird (and a little sad) almost all other AFL supporters (ex. Freo) know that feeling in the last 10 years or so except us folk...

[chef]

While that would be great, I just want to make one for a starter. The build-up in the final week to GF day knowing your team is still playing would be sensational.

I feel the same way.

[Remi Moses]

It's Time!!!!!:):)

[LostDoggy]

I believe we are in with a real shot this season, all we need is alot of luck with injuries which have cruelled us in the past.



Injuries are the key here for all teams involved, I am very excited about our chances this year and to make a grand final would be very special, winning one will bring me to tears after all these years. There is a long season ahead, every game is vital, including that mob this Monday.

Dynasty is a big word but as a long suffering Central Districts supporter here in Adelaide, the last 10 years has been wonderful and wouldnt have been realistic in my wildest dreams. That said AFL is a different game and things change very quickly. I think West Coast were about to start a Dynasty a few years back...

One game at a time, one step at a time, make the 8, make the top 4, win the first final, win the prelim and on one day, anything can happen. Dare to dream!

[AndrewP6]

Whoa, hold your horses... a dynasty is only a pipe dream.... let's make a GF first...baby steps are necessary.... don't get ahead of yourselves...

I think I'm out of cliches for now....

[LostDoggy]

It's Time!!!!!:):)

Not the most auspicious slogan for a potential dynasty to employ.

But I felt the same way after the Freo win. Something has changed.

[mighty_west]

Injuries are the key here for all teams involved, I am very excited about our chances this year and to make a grand final would be very special, winning one will bring me to tears after all these years. There is a long season ahead, every game is vital, including that mob this Monday.

Dynasty is a big word but as a long suffering Central Districts supporter here in Adelaide, the last 10 years has been wonderful and wouldnt have been realistic in my wildest dreams. That said AFL is a different game and things change very quickly. I think West Coast were about to start a Dynasty a few years back...

One game at a time, one step at a time, make the 8, make the top 4, win the first final, win the prelim and on one day, anything can happen. Dare to dream!

I wouldn't call it a Dynasty as far as Centrals are concerned, i'd call it total domination, the rest of the SANFL must really hate the Doggies, SANFL Doggies of course. :cool:

What is it, 6 or 7 Premierships since 2000?

[Sedat]

The shape of our list in 2009 can be viewed purely on the back of Dogs listed players currently playing for Willy seniors. Less than 2 years ago, Tiller went from Werribee 2nds to AFL seniors in 2 weeks (and he most certainly didn't get 40 touches in his 1 outing in between for Werribee seniors). Josh Hill got a senior game late in 2007 on the back of no form whatsoever at VFL level - how times have changed: we've now got 10-odd players queueing up to play senior footy who are playing at or above at standard VFL level.

Back in 2007, I would get excited when a Dogs listed player managed to scrape into the bests for Werribee (seeing as most of the Dogs listed players were so poor at VFL level at the time, they were still plying their trade in Werribee 2nds). This can't all be attributed to the uneasy alliance between Werribee at the time - our depth players just weren't up to it en masse.

Our list depth from even 2 short years ago was unbelievably shallow compared to now. And with the majority of players not in our senior time witrh the best years in front of them, I'd say we are in for a sustained spell of contending.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't call it a Dynasty as far as Centrals are concerned, i'd call it total domination, the rest of the SANFL must really hate the Doggies, SANFL Doggies of course. :cool:

What is it, 6 or 7 Premierships since 2000?

The notable fact about Centrals reign is the way the list has changed over the 10 years.

Just about the only constant is the Gowans twins.

Our recruiting from this point on is all important in order to have players coming through as the blokes now 27 -30 move into retirement.

[lemmon]

I think along with Hawthorn and maybe Carlton we are in the best position heading into the next 2-5 years. Geelong is ageing and just looking at there list they lack key position depth, Hawthorn are still a young, improving side and Im not sold on Carlton who I think still lack a few pieces of the puzzle and those pieces are getting harder to find heading into the GC and WS period. We have very good depth and a lot of good young kids who are doing there apprenticeships in the VFL, my only concern is that we are going to see a lot of guys retire in succession and these kids will be thrown in all at once.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't call it a Dynasty as far as Centrals are concerned, i'd call it total domination, the rest of the SANFL must really hate the Doggies, SANFL Doggies of course. :cool:

What is it, 6 or 7 Premierships since 2000?

7 Flags mate, been in every GF since 2000, thats 8 in a row and haven't played a single prelim final in that time. Each time they have won the semi final and had the week off before the GF.
They have lost twice in finals in that time... 2002 and 2006 GF's
Remember... 2000 was their first flag.

[mjp]

Centrals were the 'trial group' for the development of the leading teams program weren't they?

[bulldogtragic]

Just a little bump. No panic stations yet. Just keeping this thread in the back of the mind.

[LostDoggy]

Until will develop at least one tall mobile forward, we won't win the flag.

When things aren't going right with skill & delivery to the forwards, we don't have a dump out option. Our dump out option is a skinny Hill & robotic Minson, they are not going to push you over the line in a pressure packed finals game.

We all seen last years pre lim final, we were about one tall key forward short, of really taking it up to the cats & maybe beating them. I'm still a firm believer that we need that option, because we don't have a plan b when we can't delivery the ball onto the chest of our small leading forwards.

[AndrewP6]

Methinks we're at least 2-3 years away from the GF....let alone winning the thing... too many deficiencies...we're going to lose players to retirement, and the GC17... trophy cabinet to remain empty for a while yet...

[LostDoggy]

The sooner we get some games in to Roughead and Ace the better. These two players if they live up to the hype will be the ones who will get us a premiership. After today's game I think that the sooner we start blooding them the better - as I can't see this year being an improvement on last year.

[LostDoggy]

Oh how times have changed in such a short period.

Stars in most peoples eyes a month ago. Month later it's another season of "next season".

1/8 chance of making a GF, even less than that for a majority of the last 50 years.

[LostDoggy]

Oh how times have changed in such a short period.

Stars in most peoples eyes a month ago. Month later it's another season of "next season".

1/8 chance of making a GF, even less than that for a majority of the last 50 years.

It's silly isn't it how quickly people jump on and off bandwagons?

Perhaps it's the most recent scars of the '07 dropoff that really sticks in the mind, but the facts remain that the team has had a solid pre-season, the younger players are stepping up a notch, and despite a pretty tricky first 6 rounds, no real damage has been done apart from losing to a bogey team (Carlton), the form team (St.Kilda), and on a second trip to Perth in three weeks. Most of us would have taken 3-3 before the start of the season.

Having said that, you'd want the team to start winning again soon, starting with the Crows this weekend!

[LostDoggy]

Yes, we are all bandwagoners :rolleyes:

[Scorlibo]

Yea well I would have taken 3-3 going into the season as a good start, but its still heart-wrenching to see them playing badly and I think its more the 3 losses in a row that hurts. If we had started out shakily and improved to be 3-3 I would be happy, but seeing as its been the other way round, it's a little upsetting.

[LostDoggy]

Until will develop at least one tall mobile forward, we won't win the flag.

When things aren't going right with skill & delivery to the forwards, we don't have a dump out option. Our dump out option is a skinny Hill & robotic Minson, they are not going to push you over the line in a pressure packed finals game.

We all seen last years pre lim final, we were about one tall key forward short, of really taking it up to the cats & maybe beating them. I'm still a firm believer that we need that option, because we don't have a plan b when we can't delivery the ball onto the chest of our small leading forwards.

Have to agree - I'm not a bandwagoner, but I'm getting a sense that our window of opportunity is closing ever so slightly. I'm trying to be patient :)

[soupman]

Just so you guys know, there's going to be a bit on Mitch Wallis on channel 9's "future stars" show in the next half hour or so.

(This was the first semi-relevant thread I found when I searched his name)

[hujsh]

Missed it. Gain any insight from it?

[bulldogtragic]

Just so you guys know, there's going to be a bit on Mitch Wallis on channel 9's "future stars" show in the next half hour or so.

(This was the first semi-relevant thread I found when I searched his name)
Anyone see it?

[LostDoggy]

geez you guys are flippant

[Happy Days]

Anyone see it?

I saw most of it but missed the start.

When I started watching they were talking with Steve Wallis about his coaching role at the Cannons. They then moved on to talking to Mitch about him splitting his time between Calder and Skevs, then about the father-son program at the Dogs. They then ran a highlights package and discussed areas of his game that he thought he could improve in; accountability, sprinting, and work below the knees.

Wasn't terribly informative, but a good little piece none the less. Said his main asperation at this point is to play league footy with the Dogs, so good signs there.

[bulldogtragic]

I saw most of it but missed the start.

When I started watching they were talking with Steve Wallis about his coaching role at the Cannons. They then moved on to talking to Mitch about him splitting his time between Calder and Skevs, then about the father-son program at the Dogs. They then ran a highlights package and discussed areas of his game that he thought he could improve in; accountability, sprinting, and work below the knees.

Wasn't terribly informative, but a good little piece none the less. Said his main asperation at this point is to play league footy with the Dogs, so good signs there.
Love the bit about wanting to play for the dogs!!!!

[soupman]

I saw most of it but missed the start.

When I started watching they were talking with Steve Wallis about his coaching role at the Cannons. They then moved on to talking to Mitch about him splitting his time between Calder and Skevs, then about the father-son program at the Dogs. They then ran a highlights package and discussed areas of his game that he thought he could improve in; accountability, sprinting, and work below the knees.

Wasn't terribly informative, but a good little piece none the less. Said his main asperation at this point is to play league footy with the Dogs, so good signs there.

Yeah that was pretty much it. Very brief interview.

[LostDoggy]

Keys to winning this year.
Injuries don't want any.
Williams, Everitt, Hill, Tiller, Ward, Addison, Picken, Callan, Harbrow and others must step up a level.

Another forward option must come out off this group.