IF - Pavlich was available?

[bornadog]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/go-east-young-man/2009/04/21/1240079672290.html

Article in The Age today suggests that Pavlich may think about leaving the Dockers and he may be a perfect fit for either the Cats or Dogs.

If he was available, would you want him and what would you be willing to give up?

[craigsahibee]

Would I like to have Pavlich in our side? Yes.

Who would I give up? Wade Skipper and Cameron Wight. But, who would the Dockers want is the question. I'm guessing a hard running skilled mid-fielder type would be high on their shopping list. I am not prepared to lose any of ours.

[bornadog]

Would I like to have Pavlich in our side? Yes.

Who would I give up? Wade Skipper and Cameron Wight. But, who would the Dockers want is the question. I'm guessing a hard running skilled mid-fielder type would be high on their shopping list. I am not prepared to lose any of ours.

To get some one good you have to give up someone good, plus maybe draft picks?.

[LostDoggy]

You can't get something for nothing...but then there was the Jason Akermanis trade :D

[LostDoggy]

Hrmm I always believed Pavlich could be much better at any other club..

But hes 28 at the end of the year..

I'd give up Wight & Skipper too...but draft pick wise I dont think id want us giving anything before Pick 25-30

[LostDoggy]

Would I like to have Pavlich in our side? Yes.

Who would I give up? Wade Skipper and Cameron Wight.

The trade bait really have to be realistic. Neither of those would garner any interest from Freo. To lose Pavlich, they would want a top quality player (perhaps 2 good players) plus a 1st round draft pick.

Either Giansiracusa and Murphy are two players I'd be prepared to lose for Pavlich.

[azabob]

The trade bait really have to be realistic. Neither of those would garner any interest from Freo. To lose Pavlich, they would want a top quality player (perhaps 2 good players) plus a 1st round draft pick.

Either Giansiracusa and Murphy are two players I'd be prepared to lose for Pavlich.

If you were to get Pavlich you would want to play him from the goal square and by trading Murphy who would do the hard running and presenting up the ground?
I'd prefer to trade a midfield type rather than a hard working forward.

[Cyberdoggie]

We have 1 extremely rare and almost extinct Bald Eagle to trade. :p

[LostDoggy]

If you were to get Pavlich you would want to play him from the goal square and by trading Murphy who would do the hard running and presenting up the ground?
I'd prefer to trade a midfield type rather than a hard working forward.

Just saying that the likes of Wight or Skipper being offered up would generate laughter as opposed to a trade like this. I brought Murphy and Gia up because I think losing one of them would not be that detrimental if gaining Pavlich. Neither of them (for mine) are consistent enough and losing one of them (plus a draft pick presumably) would be well worth it if Pavlich in red, white and blue was the end result.

[LostDoggy]

The untested but talented palyers such as Guy O'Keefe or Sam Reid and a draft pick would be the only deal, in my opinion that would make both sides happy. Pavlich in the bulldogs forward line would lead to a Premiership no doubt about it.

[Axe Man]

We would be crazy not to have a crack at Pav whilst we are in the so called premiership window. He would top our side off perfectly and provide at least 3 years of service. Realistically we would probably have to offer at least a first round draft pick and a quality player to get it over the line as plenty of other clubs will be pushing hard for his services as well. Geelong gave up picks 12 and 14 I think for Ottens and he turned out to be crucial in their premiership side.

With Aka gone it will free up room in the salary cap, which is another plus.

In the end it's probably highly unlikely to eventuate but this is a far more attractive proposition to the key forwards we are normally associated with every trade period (Hall, Robertson, Adam Campbell, etc).

[LostDoggy]

We would be crazy not to have a crack at Pav whilst we are in the so called premiership window. He would top our side off perfectly and provide at least 3 years of service. Realistically we would probably have to offer at least a first round draft pick and a quality player to get it over the line as plenty of other clubs will be pushing hard for his services as well. Geelong gave up picks 12 and 14 I think for Ottens and he turned out to be crucial in their premiership side.

With Aka gone it will free up room in the salary cap, which is another plus.

In the end it's probably highly unlikely to eventuate but this is a far more attractive proposition to the key forwards we are normally associated with every trade period (Hall, Robertson, Adam Campbell, etc).

Great post, agree completely.

[bornadog]

We would be crazy not to have a crack at Pav whilst we are in the so called premiership window. He would top our side off perfectly and provide at least 3 years of service. Realistically we would probably have to offer at least a first round draft pick and a quality player to get it over the line as plenty of other clubs will be pushing hard for his services as well. Geelong gave up picks 12 and 14 I think for Ottens and he turned out to be crucial in their premiership side.

With Aka gone it will free up room in the salary cap, which is another plus.

In the end it's probably highly unlikely to eventuate but this is a far more attractive proposition to the key forwards we are normally associated with every trade period (Hall, Robertson, Adam Campbell, etc).

Totally agree, I think we would have to give up some around the 21 to 25 year old age group, maybe even a Hill who is from WA. I know people will scream and yell about that, but the premiership window is open for us and a big forward like Pavlich would really top us off. We could even win a couple of premierships.:)

[LostDoggy]

Okay then apart from Cooney, Griffen, Tom Williams, Bob Murphy, Shaun Higgens and Brian Lake who are the tradeables? I'm assuming the package deal would be an established/fringe player who jus can't get an opportunity and a first round draft pick.

[LostDoggy]

I've sat around for years looking at Pavlich as the dream trade for the Dogs. With a KPF of that quality in the team we would be genuine premiership favourites for a long time. He would also be perfect for the development of the next generation of key forwards (there's a reason why sides with key forwards tend to develop others, while those without one, like the Dogs, can't seem to get any of their kids to the required standard.. success breeds success, and we don't have any key forward role models).

At only 27, Pav has a good 5-6 years left and we would be negligent not to chase this trade with everything possible. I would be willing to give up almost anything for this trade, as it really is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to set this club up for the next two decades. I would argue he would be at least as valuable to the Dogs as Judd has been for Carlton.

First round draft pick (we have a good stock of youngsters from the last couple of drafts) + one first team player (no names) + one youngster/fringe player that fits Freo's requirements, or two draft picks and a mid-line player.

If Pav was determined to leave, it would strengthen our trading postion, and may be able to hang on to the first round pick, give up a bag of second and third round picks + a mid-line/young WA player. Freo's best strategy before GC17 come in is to stock up on youngsters via the draft anyway.

We really should be throwing everything we have at this possibility, and knowing David Smorgon, Campbell Rose and Rodney Eade, I know we will be.

[comrade]

I hate to say this but I'd give up Boyd and Hill.

I feel dirty.

[bornadog]

I've sat around for years looking at Pavlich as the dream trade for the Dogs. With a KPF of that quality in the team we would be genuine premiership favourites for a long time. He would also be perfect for the development of the next generation of key forwards (there's a reason why sides with key forwards tend to develop others, while those without one, like the Dogs, can't seem to get any of their kids to the required standard.. success breeds success, and we don't have any key forward role models).

At only 27, Pav has a good 5-6 years left and we would be negligent not to chase this trade with everything possible. I would be willing to give up almost anything for this trade, as it really is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to set this club up for the next two decades. I would argue he would be at least as valuable to the Dogs as Judd has been for Carlton.

First round draft pick (we have a good stock of youngsters from the last couple of drafts) + one first team player (no names) + one youngster/fringe player that fits Freo's requirements, or two draft picks and a mid-line player.

If Pav was determined to leave, it would strengthen our trading postion, and may be able to hang on to the first round pick, give up a bag of second and third round picks + a mid-line/young WA player. Freo's best strategy before GC17 come in is to stock up on youngsters via the draft anyway.

We really should be throwing everything we have at this possibility, and knowing David Smorgon, Campbell Rose and Rodney Eade, I know we will be.

The other issue is next year we have a couple of father/son potentials to take up ie Libba and Wallis, so we need to keep our first round pick.

[LostDoggy]

Only if they're good enough that is.

[LostDoggy]

And WTF does Gary Lyon mean when he says it's 'hard to imagine Pav at the Dogs'? Geez Gary, get with the times.

[bornadog]

Only if they're good enough that is.

Of Course

[LostDoggy]

The other issue is next year we have a couple of father/son potentials to take up ie Libba and Wallis, so we need to keep our first round pick.

Actually, we only need to use our 'next available' pick. If we trade away our first round pick we only have to use our second round pick (if the player is nominated by another club).

That's why I always wondered why we didn't trade away our first round pick last year -- we had to use it on Ayce anyway. We could have just traded the pick for a good player (worth a first round pick!) and use our next available pick on Ayce. We may have missed out on Liam or Roughead, but would have gotten a ready-made gun player in return...

It's precisely in father-son years that we should just trade away the early picks because clubs will just force you to use them on the father-sons anyway (ala the saints last year), wasting the advantage of an early pick or the father-son rule. Just trade the early picks away for gun players and use the later available picks on the father-sons. That way you take advantage of the best of both rules.

[The Underdog]

Actually, we only need to use our 'next available' pick. If we trade away our first round pick we only have to use our second round pick (if the player is nominated by another club).

That's why I always wondered why we didn't trade away our first round pick last year -- we had to use it on Ayce anyway. We could have just traded the pick for a good player (worth a first round pick!) and use our next available pick on Ayce. We may have missed out on Liam or Roughead, but would have gotten a ready-made gun player in return...

It's precisely in father-son years that we should just trade away the early picks because clubs will just force you to use them on the father-sons anyway (ala the saints last year), wasting the advantage of an early pick or the father-son rule. Just trade the early picks away for gun players and use the later available picks on the father-sons. That way you take advantage of the best of both rules.

Pretty sure you have to commit the pick before trade week begins. Thus the pick is already spent.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Actually, we only need to use our 'next available' pick. If we trade away our first round pick we only have to use our second round pick (if the player is nominated by another club).

That's why I always wondered why we didn't trade away our first round pick last year -- we had to use it on Ayce anyway. We could have just traded the pick for a good player (worth a first round pick!) and use our next available pick on Ayce. We may have missed out on Liam or Roughead, but would have gotten a ready-made gun player in return...

It's precisely in father-son years that we should just trade away the early picks because clubs will just force you to use them on the father-sons anyway (ala the saints last year), wasting the advantage of an early pick or the father-son rule. Just trade the early picks away for gun players and use the later available picks on the father-sons. That way you take advantage of the best of both rules.

Not allowed. The father/son pick is sorted out before trade week.

Stop dreaming guys unless you're prepared to ante-up Cooney or Griffen. That's what it would take.

[jitboy]

I have a feeling the asking price could be a Griffen or a Higgo for someone of Pavlich's "superstar" status.
Which I would think would not be workable from a club point of view.

If we could find a way to structure something like the Judd deal it would be great, but I don't see us (hopefully) having that a high a draft pick.

[bornadog]

I have a feeling the asking price could be a Griffen or a Higgo for someone of Pavlich's "superstar" status.
Which I would think would not be workable from a club point of view.

If we could find a way to structure something like the Judd deal it would be great, but I don't see us (hopefully) having that a high a draft pick.

I would give up Higgo for a Pavlich. KPP in the forward line of his calibre does not grow on trees.

[Rocket Science]

I'd move heaven, earth and most of hell to get this bloke...but you'd suspect other clubs would be prepared to do the same.

It's for this reason, and Pavlich's obvious value as a player that any enticements had better be something vaguely befitting the term, otherwise if I'm Freo I don't bother returning your call.

Given the acres of print justifiably devoted to shitcanning their list management, at a bare minimum they'll want someone to assist with the rebuild meaning blokes south of 25 years old, and if you're serious about putting Pav into tricolours that don't involve the traditional footballing hues of purple or green it might pay to spend two minutes thinking about what they might actually need.

Skipper's 27 at the end of this year and simply not up to it, scratch him off...whereas Wight'll be 24 but they're already loaded with flaky, athletic talls who can't hold down a key position and are perennially in and out of the team. They're both the sort of tradebait you offer up if you're looking to get a giggle by insulting the other party and aren't fussed about talks progressing.

Someone mentioned Murph as possible tradebait...he'll be 27 next year. Quality player, but if you're Freo not sure I recognise the logic in moving Pavlich for a smaller bloke who plays a similar role and who's around the same age.

As for Giansiracusa, he's 28 next year...not sure they'd be all that interested as the centrepiece for a deal, and I feel he's more valuable to us than he typically gets credit for anyway. He stays and steps into the skipper's role once Johnno's done.

Besides, if we're angling for Pav because we're entering a premiership 'window', we're realistically not looking to deplete our flag squad by dealing the likes of Murph or Gia.

In light of Warnock's loss they're not exactly endowed with backup ruck options (Kepler Bradley's about it) so if they express any sort of interest (debatable) in Minson (24 next year) I'd be quite willing to put him on the table. Roughead won't be ready for anything more than a cameo next season but a #2 ruck slot's a lot easier to trade for than a premier forward in their prime.

They're also badly in need of crumbing forwards and blokes with some sort of work ethic, so if I'm the Dogs I'm hoping Jarrod Harbrow (21 next year) holds some appeal, who can also push up into the midfield as he further develops.

Others who may meet their criteria and could form part of a package, listed in order of prospective value, include:

- Tiller (23 next year) versatile semi-regular.
- Reid (20 next year) tough mid on the cusp.
- O'Keefe (20 next year) mid showing good VFL progress, but unproven.
- Wood (20 next year), solidly developing mid, but unproven.
- Stack (21 next year), ex-WA boy, supremely talented but unproven.
- Boumann (20 next year) raw big bloke, unproven.
- Mulligan (20 next season), unproven KP/ruck and extremely raw.
- Lynch (22 next year), talented but wayward, and unproven.

Unless they've taken a particular shine to one of them during their development I can't really see Freo falling over themselves to acquire anyone from that group, save for perhaps Reid, or maybe even Stack given his talent-level and origins. Realistically, unless anyone there advances their game and name this season, they're all throw-ins

So what else have we got to get them into bed with us?

Given the relative dearth of 'sexy' tradebait, and worth noting I don't dare raise these names until other avenues have been offically exhausted, if we're serious about landing Pavlich for 3-5 years I'm then willing to raise the spectre of moving one of Andrejs Everitt or (reluctantly) Josh Hill (both 21 next year)...They're the centrepiece names we fall back on after we go through the obligatory round of scoffing when they first drop Higgins' name.

I can see either, particularly Hill, getting their attention in a big way.

Musing further and am not suggesting I'd be comfortable with this, but if I'm Freo do I express any interest in Jarrad Grant?...and if so, with Pavlich in the fold and Cordy in the pipeline, do we blink? Positionally, he'd seem an all too obvious target for them given what they're losing, and if Grant ends up on the table, you'd have to assume we wouldn't be asked to cough up a great deal more.

All up, a fascinating prospect to ponder, but, it'll never happen...if he goes anywhere, Pav's going to Adelaide.

[Sedat]

Their list of prospective Bulldog names to be packaged into a trade for Pavlich would start and end with Cooney and Griffen, possibly Higgins if he keeps improving at his current rate. Otherwise Freo will look elsewhere.

[Rocket Science]

Griffen/Cooney are both roughly 5 years Pav's junior, and conceivably haven't peaked as players yet.

What club's likely to cough up a star in that age bracket with realistic scope to improve?

[craigsahibee]

To get some one good you have to give up someone good, plus maybe draft picks?.

That's exactly my point. What I would give up and what Freo would want are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I would not be prepared to lose any of our current and for that matter, future midfielders for a 28 year old.

[Mofra]

Whatever Freo want will be over the odds for what we would be prepared to pay. Put simply, it is very rare for a quality KPP to be traded, and even less so when they are in their prime.

I dare say what Freo want for Pav would be enough to weaken our tilt at a flag so we would struggle with Pav to just hold ground, let alone take the next step.

[Sedat]

Griffen/Cooney are both roughly 5 years Pav's junior, and conceivably haven't peaked as players yet.

What club's likely to cough up a star in that age bracket with realistic scope to improve?
I agree 100%, no club would be willing to part with top-end talent under the age of 25. But you can bet your bottom dollar that Freo would not be expecting anything less than the best of the under 25 crop from any club in a trade for Pav.

[The Pie Man]

Top analysis RS

The Grant one is interesting - you put 10 kgs on him over the next 12 months, and who thinks this guy could be a regular senior player? Should it happen, we may not salivate over someone like Pav so much.

But given he's still skinny, I look to the Judd trade for precedent.

Pick 3 and home town boy Kennedy (for memory)

I'd suggest we'd have to offer up a very early pick (which I don't see us getting in the next few years without trading for one, which would mean an A grader) and someone like Josh Hill who is from WA. I'm a Josh Hill fan, but I remember reading Sockeye's views that Hill could become the next Bulldog whipping boy, and I challenge anyone to think he didn't give away ground in a few marking contest way too easily against West Coast (admittedly he's still wiry)

His pick up and goal vs Richmond is still my highlight of the year so far though.

Gia I can't see happening - Eade rates him too highly, too popular within the group, potential next captain.

Boyd I wouldn't want happening, I'd rather lose Cross than Boyd (if something like this had to happen)

[Sedat]

But given he's still skinny, I look to the Judd trade for precedent.

Pick 3 and home town boy Kennedy (for memory)
Firstly, Judd was out of contract and secondly, Carlton had picks 1 and 3 with which to dangle in front of West Coast. Carlton also had a massive amount of salary cap room at their disposal following the retirements/off-loading of several overpaid hacks just prior to 2008. So our potential situation at the end of this year is nowhere near that of Carlton's at the end of 2007.

[LostDoggy]

I just cant see it happening, i dont think the club would be willing to give up what it would take to get Pav. He has a year at the end of this contract so there is no preseason draft threat. This guy is 28-29 a absolute superstar and i would say a better player than anyone on our current list.


Consider what you would want for say Cooney or Griffen and then reverse it, that what it would be required to get Pav maybe even more.

[LostDoggy]

Firstly, Judd was out of contract and secondly, Carlton had picks 1 and 3 with which to dangle in front of West Coast. Carlton also had a massive amount of salary cap room at their disposal following the retirements/off-loading of several overpaid hacks just prior to 2008. So our potential situation at the end of this year is nowhere near that of Carlton's at the end of 2007.

Appart from not having two top five picks, not really that different. Aker will go, maybe Johnno as well. Ego will go, so we will have room in the cap. IMO we should do whatever it takes short of Coons and Griff to get this guy.

[dog town]

The only reason they would move Pavlich on is if they thought they could get either top draft picks or gun youngsters. We are not in a position to sacrifice either of those commodities. With the compromised drafts coming up a side in the dockers situation will feel as if they are cornered into a no win situation. No opportunity of starting a rebuilding process and not enough talent on your list to move up the ladder is not a great place to be in. It may just cause the dockers to do something huge like offering up Pavlich but you can bet a heap of teams will be in a far better position than us to give them what they are after.

Sure a guy of Pavs age is best suited to a contender like Geelong, Port or ourselves but the system is not set up to benefit us. If he is put up for trade his wish will be to return to Adelaide but GC17 will be the club with all the bargaining chips. They have all the key draft picks and will look to secure a big name by trading a couple of these. They have enough picks that they do not need to use all of them. They will be pretty desperate to get some senior leadership into the mix with a bunch of talented kids.

[Sedat]

Appart from not having two top five picks, not really that different. Aker will go, maybe Johnno as well. Ego will go, so we will have room in the cap. IMO we should do whatever it takes short of Coons and Griff to get this guy.
Pav's not out of contract, which is the massive difference. Freo has all the bargaining power and Pav/opposition clubs have nothing.

[BulldogBelle]

Pav's not out of contract, which is the massive difference.

Pav's contact ends in 2010 - he will probably go back home to SA or head over to GC17 and will be rewarded with a much heftier contract...for some reason, I just can't see him heading our way.

[LostDoggy]

I just cant see it happening, i dont think the club would be willing to give up what it would take to get Pav. He has a year at the end of this contract so there is no preseason draft threat. This guy is 28-29 a absolute superstar and i would say a better player than anyone on our current list.


Consider what you would want for say Cooney or Griffen and then reverse it, that what it would be required to get Pav maybe even more.

Great point Doglee - I would not like to see the Dogs give up our current guns, but perhaps a Hill or a younger as yet unproven Dog? :)

[Sedat]

The only chance we have of getting Pavlich for anything not including Cooney and Griffen would be for the Unholy Trinity of Peter Rohde, Stephen Newport and Bones Richardson to take over at Freo, between now and the end of the season, as the match-committee and list management powerbrokers.

[The Pie Man]

I admit, it's highly unlikely this will come to pass, but gee thinking about Pav in our forward line.........hmmmm mmmmmm

Upon reading that, that sounds like Mr Herbert from Family Guy!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Realistically Freo would want either 2 first round picks, once of which would have to be an early one, or one early 1st round pick and a quality player of the Griffen, Cooney ilk.
Anything less and they wouldn't even bother responding.

This might actually require us to trade 2 quality players. Assuming we finished top 4 or top 6, we would not have an early 1st round pick to provide Freo. So we would have to look at trading a quality player plus possibly a 2nd round pick to another club in order to secure the early 1st rounder to give to Freo, and then we would need to give Freo either our other 1st round pick or another quality player.

I'd rather not do that for a guy who maybe has 2-3 years at the top level left in him, and maybe another 2 declining years in him after that.
If Pav was 24-25 then yep it would conceivably be worth it.

We have the nucleus of a good team for some years to come, and rather than ripping the fabric of this apart, I think we need to continue down the track of using the draft to fulfil our needs, and SMART trading to compliment this approach.

[The Adelaide Connection]

One thing you really have to put into perspective is that Pavlich IS Fremantle. He is to Fremantle what Chris Grant in his prime was to us and what Gary Ablett Jnr is to Geelong now. As bad as Fremantle can be he is there to excite and puts arses in seats no matter how perilous their situation is and he can be inspirational. Losing him would be like ripping the supporters hearts out of their chests. Getting him would take losing a player that would give us a similar feeling I am guessing especially, as mentioned, when he is still in contract.

Every year the papers over here talk about him wanting to come back to Adelaide but it is, you would have to assume, media beat up to sell papers when there are no other stories to tell. But you have to admit it is a delicious 'What if?' and that is why every year they rehash the old 'Pavlich wants a move' line.

Every team would love him but the bloke has come out and said on a few occasions that he is a one man team and wants to stay over there. Could the underperforming Fremantle team have got the better of him? Maybe. Will Fremantle trade away a freakishly rare KPP that would further alienate their fans? No.

If Pav warnts a move that is motivated by getting a premiership, Fremantle will be aggressive and not come to the party very easily. If Pav wants a move that is to do with a family circumstance etc they may be less aggressive but he wont be going to Melbourne.

[wimberga]

One thing you really have to put into perspective is that Pavlich IS Fremantle. He is to Fremantle what Chris Grant in his prime was to us and what Gary Ablett Jnr is to Geelong now. As bad as Fremantle can be he is there to excite and puts arses in seats no matter how perilous their situation is and he can be inspirational. Losing him would be like ripping the supporters hearts out of their chests. Getting him would take losing a player that would give us a similar feeling I am guessing especially, as mentioned, when he is still in contract.

Every year the papers over here talk about him wanting to come back to Adelaide but it is, you would have to assume, media beat up to sell papers when there are no other stories to tell. But you have to admit it is a delicious 'What if?' and that is why every year they rehash the old 'Pavlich wants a move' line.

Every team would love him but the bloke has come out and said on a few occasions that he is a one man team and wants to stay over there. Could the underperforming Fremantle team have got the better of him? Maybe. Will Fremantle trade away a freakishly rare KPP that would further alienate their fans? No.

If Pav warnts a move that is motivated by getting a premiership, Fremantle will be aggressive and not come to the party very easily. If Pav wants a move that is to do with a family circumstance etc they may be less aggressive but he wont be going to Melbourne.


He is, but i guess that just raises his price!

[LostDoggy]

There is one player + draft picks other than Cooney and Griffen that Freo would be guaranteed to look at seriously. The question would be if we would be prepared to give him up, and whether the nett gain would be greater than the nett loss. It is a very difficult question to answer, but there is one other player:

His initials are Tom Williams.

[The Adelaide Connection]

He is, but i guess that just raises his price!

Your spot on, but he is only worth what teams are willing to give for him which will fall short of what Fremantle need to get to replace a player of his calibre that means as much to the club as he does.

[Sedat]

My man Schulz kicked 7 on the weekend for Coburg - that's what happens when you don't have Richo standing next to you. We could get him for a half-eaten bag of Twisties at the end of this year and he's well under 25.

[bornadog]

My man Schulz kicked 7 on the weekend for Coburg - that's what happens when you don't have Richo standing next to you. We could get him for a half-eaten bag of Twisties at the end of this year and he's well under 25.

No thanks, would rather stick Grant in. As for Pavlich, he is special.

[strebla]

As good as Schulz would look in a Willy jumper Sedat he is nothing like what the doggies need.I hate to say this but I would be willing (very reluctently) to offer up Higgins and Hill it would hurt but the upside would be huge

[hujsh]

Harvey has ruled out any trade for Pavlich but that means nothing

[bornadog]

Harvey has ruled out any trade for Pavlich but that means nothing

Here is part of the article: (http://sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/harvey-rejects-pav-trade-68994


Harvey dismisses Pavlich trade talk

22/04/2009 4:28 PM
Paul Barbieri
Sportal

Fremantle coach Mark Harvey says he's 'bewildered' by media suggestions that Dockers captain Matthew Pavlich should be traded at the end of the season.

Sportal's Ronny Lerner broached the subject last week, saying a player as skilled as Pavlich deserved the opportunity to play in a top class side and possibly earn a Premiership medal.

His opinion was supported by respected football commentator Garry Lyon who wrote in The West Australian that Pavlich 'has been the perfect partner — loyal, honest and dependable' and thus deserved a chance at another club as Fremantle repeatedly lets him down.


But Harvey said the embattled Dockers were giving no consideration to trading the five-time player of the year and returned fire, saying his 'vulnerable' club was being preyed on by the media.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There is one player + draft picks other than Cooney and Griffen that Freo would be guaranteed to look at seriously. The question would be if we would be prepared to give him up, and whether the nett gain would be greater than the nett loss. It is a very difficult question to answer, but there is one other player:

His initials are Tom Williams.

I highly doubt it.

Williams is important to our structure but he's not an "A" grade player. He's more similar to Morris than Lake, in that he basically plays a lockdown role without giving too much rebounding offense ala Lake. I'd suggest Fremantle would be after a legit gun capable of really changing/influencing games - Eg. Cooney, Griffen and Higgins.

Williams is going to be a good, strong player - but Freo wouldn't think twice. They'd say no.

[bulldogtragic]

If we had Pavlich who would we expect for him.

I would expect a top 10 draft pick and Higgins or two top 15 draft picks and a third rounder. In a very good side, he could be the difference between playing prelims and winning grand finals.

Cats loved Brent Moloney with a real passion, but Ottens helped take them to 2 grannies and a premiership.

Glad i'm not paid to make these kinds of decisions.

[wb_age]

His initials are Tom Williams.

Thomas Williamson?

[MrMahatma]

Maybe Everitt and Hill.

Would love to have him.

How hard we chased would depend on Grant's year I dare say.

[hujsh]

We would have to give up seriously good players to get him.

Carlton had to give a top 5, a top 20 pick and a highly rated tall for Judd and he was out of contract.

We shouldn't have a top 5 pick and Pav isn't out of contract so we'd pay too much.

[AndrewP6]

DOn't think it's gonna happen... we'd have to give up too much...

[LostDoggy]

Wouldn't it be great if grant could get up and running well enough so we could make a push on the Premiership.

God this talk of Pav really makes ya think doesnt it. Driving me insane. haha

[alwaysadog]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/go-east-young-man/2009/04/21/1240079672290.html

Article in The Age today suggests that Pavlich may think about leaving the Dockers and he may be a perfect fit for either the Cats or Dogs.

If he was available, would you want him and what would you be willing to give up?

Pure media beat up. Pav's going no where.

[lemmon]

If I was Mark Harvey I would be absolutely ruthless, I would demand a first round pick which realistically would be around the 14,15,16 mark and either a Cooney, Griffen, Higgins. All would be well suited to Subiaco and would fit into the Fremantle structure. Personally these three are the core of our side for the next 7-10 years and are off limits.
He would be a massive addition but at the age of 28 it would be a tough call to make. If Grant could stand up in the next few years, I think we wouldve found the final piece of the puzzle.

[boydogs]

There are several reasons why this might happen:

- Fremantle will be looking to rebuild at the time of the 'compromised' drafts, and so may trade some good older players for the draft picks or young guns of other clubs. These will be of a higher value than in other years as trade bait

- Pavlich may want to join a side with a chance of winning the premiership before he retires, which includes us and does not include GC17. When players come out with specific wishes to move e.g. Judd, Ray and Aker, their clubs can sometimes get less than they otherwise might

- We have several WA players on our list - Hargrave, Hill and Stack - two of those are not yet 21 years old

- Johnson and Aker may retire at the end of this year. Grant and Cordy are only 19 and 18 so there will be a big hole to fill whilst the youngsters mature. We will want a ready made forward in the years Pavlich will still be playing to tide us over

It could be a matter of whether we want to continue drafting and developing young talent, securing long-term top half of the ladder success or take a slight detour that could put us over the top for a premiership - this could be the one trade to make the difference

[LostDoggy]

I can't see it happening, and if by some fluke it did, Adelaide will be in a better position as they are expected to finish lower down the ladder, higher draft picks and of course the home side.

[boydogs]

The theory behind Pavlich wanting to go is I believe more to do with chasing success - a shot at a premiership - than wanting to return to his home state for the last few years of his footballing career. Sides in this category are not going to be in the bottom 4 receiving high draft picks, and we are one that has a lot of good young talent including 2 WA boys that we could offer up in place

We could still trade for a high pick, but the bottom sides can't trade for a premiership chance

[LostDoggy]

I highly doubt it.

Williams is important to our structure but he's not an "A" grade player. He's more similar to Morris than Lake, in that he basically plays a lockdown role without giving too much rebounding offense ala Lake. I'd suggest Fremantle would be after a legit gun capable of really changing/influencing games - Eg. Cooney, Griffen and Higgins.

Williams is going to be a good, strong player - but Freo wouldn't think twice. They'd say no.

The kid is a top 10 draft pick, still only 22, and a key position player. He also has 'cred' outside the Dogs as a potential gun backman with some 'anti-Buddy' hype about him in the press. Freo aren't exactly awash with key position types other than Pav, especially at the back. TW would be someone they could build a backline around, is young enough to be part of their next generation, and replaces a key position player in Pav, and as we know all too well, key backmen don't grow on trees.

I suggest they would look harder at him than any of Cross, Boyd, Hill, Stack et al. Other than Cooney, Griff and Higgins, he is the most marketable (trade-wise) of the Dogs.

Freo would be crazy not to look at TW + 2 early draft picks (in the last uncompromised draft) for an aging KPF that won't be around for their next real flag tilt.

[soupman]

I hate trying to come up with trades, as the value is always heavily influenced by bias and how attached you are to the players.

In regards to players they may look at, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ward. Fremantle would surely be interested in a 20 year old who's already shown they are good enough for AFL football, are tough, and have good disposal, plus are a potential leader. Obviously he wouldn't be anywhere near enough to get the deal done, but he could be a big component of it. If you put say him, Everitt and a first rounder together you may be getting there.

As for Stack, regard him as a third round draft pick. Potential do be good, but only a 40-60 chance of making AFL, and unlikely to have much of an influence ona trade of this calibre unless he is used as a sweetener. He is nowhere near the value of a Hill, Everitt or even a Tiller or Reid.