Worried about the Saints?

[LostDoggy]

I am.

They're looking very, very good. Just our luck, for them to peak in our premiership window.

[vho]

I watched the first half of the game and was extremely impressed. They've kicked something like 5 goals each from their past 6 quarters and each player knows what role they need to play (similar to Geelong). What I'm impressed most with though is their tackling pressure, everytime a Port player had possession there was always 3 St. kilda players down his neck. They now have a mature playing group with the addition of Ray (sad to say) who gives them the extra grunt and the return of Baker. Their Forwardline is functioning very well with Kosi the inform player and Riewoldt starting to hit his straps. The backline is looking very good with Fisher giving them plenty of drive and will only become formidable with Goose and Hudgton to return. Having said that, all 5 of their wins have been from interstate teams and it will be interesting to see how they go the month ahead. I'm not too worried at the moment as i believe our midfield should trump theirs and our forwards to be too nimble for their backs.

My 2 cents

[GVGjr]

I agree that they look impressive and a few of their fringe players seemed to have improved. Gilbert for example has improved a fair bit. Ray seems to have found a coach that can utilise his talents a bit better as well. Dal Santo and Hayes seems to be the real prime movers for them in the midfield so they are looking very strong.

It will be interesting to review them again in a few weeks.

[dog town]

They are playing very good defensive footy. The pressed up on Port last night and you could see in the camera shot looking down the ground the discipline to shut down the options for Port was fantastic. Most of the good work they did was off the ball.

They are still poor by foot with at least half the side only average. Even Gram is a bit hit and miss in that he coughs it up under pressure.

Cant get overly Dal Santo conscious. He is a good looking player bu a lot of his touches are little sideways kicks. Port sacrificed one of its best players last night to counter this. IMO its just not worth it. Most over hyped player in the comp, a good player but not elite IMO. Media almost hopes he plays well so they can give him votes. Picken will probably get him and at least that means we are not sacrificing a prime mover.

We can beat them at the very game they have been playing. We no longer need to fear these tight checking, good contested ball sides. We are just as good over the ball and I think our defensive play all over the ground has come a long way.

BTW I dont think Ray is playing any different to how he did when he was with us. They just have more need for him. Should have been run down from behind twice and would have been if Port were not so insipid. Went to ground for the majority of his contested situations which was not picked up on the coverage. Still competes when the ball is in his area and has always done that. He was not completely useless last year having beat Bateman in Tasmania and getting 28 touches against the swans.

[Rocket Science]

I might be when they've played someone.

Is anobody they've knocked over genuinely expected to make the eight?...at least two of them look like locks to be bottom four.

Accountability is what's doing it for them so far. We can do that too.

[Sgt Slaughter]

They're looking pretty good at the moment, and if we don't win it, I hope they do.
Lyon must have got them to pull their heads in... and they don't seem as annoying as when Thomas was coach...

[strebla]

What has impressed me is the way they are not only outplaying their opponents they are smashing them in all facets of the game.Having said that I can't wait untill we play it will be a good oppurtunity to see where we sit

[easybeat]

Hell yes. Looks like someones put a rocket up them in the pre-season.

[LostDoggy]

BTW I dont think Ray is playing any different to how he did when he was with us. They just have more need for him. Should have been run down from behind twice and would have been if Port were not so insipid. Went to ground for the majority of his contested situations which was not picked up on the coverage. Still competes when the ball is in his area and has always done that. He was not completely useless last year having beat Bateman in Tasmania and getting 28 touches against the swans.

I do. He is playing with more confidence and the Saints appear to have him set for some defensive match ups from time to time which we never really stuck with. He's never going to be a star but I can see him becoming a better player for the Saints than he did with us.

[LostDoggy]

I'm worried about scoring enough to win when we play them, their defence has been so great and our forward line isn't exactly our strong point in my opinion. Having said that I still think that our midfield should beat their's and our backline should beat their forward line.

[angelopetraglia]

Yes, we should be worried.

The Saints have a much harder edge to them this year. Everyone has been talking up our extra grunt around the footy, but the Saints looks to have us covered in this area at the moment, however I do believe that our run and midfield class is better than the Saints.

Where the Saints are vulnerable is that they many players who are very injury prone; Ball, Kosi, Gardiner, Riewoldt etc. Can't remember the last season where they all stood up.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I agree that they look impressive and a few of their fringe players seemed to have improved. Gilbert for example has improved a fair bit.

Gilbert looked very good in the preseason game at Optus against us - played up forward and looked an emerging star.

Geary I think is the one who has also improved a lot.

On paper you'd think there were a few weak links in their side: Dawson, Gwilt, McQualter, Eddy, Jones, Ray etc but they are performing well

[LostDoggy]

At least we will have Aker back nice and fresh, when we play them, but once again we are coming off a shorter break than our opponents.:mad:

The saints went well a couple of years ago and then peetered out towards the end of the year. Premierships are not won in April. Still having said that we have the worst draw for the first half the year Carlton, Saints and then ADelaide at AAMI - I hope our fitness stands up all year.

[LostDoggy]

Not worried at all.

[LostDoggy]

Its April not August. We were flying at this stage last year.

[LostDoggy]

No doubt about it they are flying...have to admit i'm impressed. On the other hand
we seem to be getting the job done most weeks but are yet to really hit our straps.
It will be a tough game against them next week. To be honest if we can win two out of the next three i think we will be doing really well. When we meet them again in round 17 is when you want to smash em.:D
With Welsh and Murphy still to come back and hopefully Cooney
right again in the near future i hope we can start to build nicely to the finals as the year progresses.

[1eyedog]

I'm not concerned as Rocket said 'All teams oscillate" and as RS pointed out they haven't played anyone who puts real pressure on yet. Give Murph a week and bring back Cooney and Aker and that game is 50/50 as far as I'm concerned.

[bulldogtragic]

Peaking early?

Isn't all our focus been on training and building up endurance to have peak fitness and perfornace at the right time of the year. We are yet to hit our straps at all and play at all anywhere near our beast.

I won't spend my time worrying about them, os the forgone NAB cup, or the last few games we stole. I'll concern myself with getiing Cooney and Murphy back and having Andreajs, O'Keefe and Wood kicking the door in to play.

Good luck to them.

[Mofra]

I'm worried about scoring enough to win when we play them, their defence has been so great and our forward line isn't exactly our strong point in my opinion. Having said that I still think that our midfield should beat their's and our backline should beat their forward line.
That is an issue. To be fair, they have played teams that tend to have a traditional forwardline set-up, we are a little more unconventional so hopefully that works in our favour. We really need to work hard off the ball to put them under pressure all over the ground though.

[LostDoggy]

They are no good. Will get found out against stronger sides.

[LostDoggy]

They are cruising at the moment, I don't like them getting the extra rest before our game as well. Certainly a chance to step up.

[craigsahibee]

Wins on the board this time of year are crucial to the run into September. Premierships are won from 1 - 4 on the ladder. Obviously form at the end of the season counts but if you can get the early wins on the board, that puts you in a great position to have a crack. I know Adelaide won it from lower down but realistically they shouldn't have.

[LostDoggy]

Its April not August. We were flying at this stage last year.

And we finished top 3 and made a preliminary final and were a genuine chance at a flag, so 'flying' early in the year helped.

(And if I remember correctly, the Saints also made a preliminary final last year...)

I take the point that early form means something only if it is sustained (or regained) into September, but the important bits of their team look impressive. I agree with the comment that injuries will prove important; Ross Lyon knows how to organise an effective team defence and looks to have gotten them scoring heavily. Always a good combination.

If we are a chance this year, so are they.

[Scorlibo]

The Saints are at last delivering on their talented side.

Dal Santo has been amazing in the first few weeks, he will be leading the Brownlow at the moment. Goddard, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Hayes, Ball, Montagna they're all cashing in on their talent. Plus their average players are just applying soo much defensive pressure so that everyone plays a role.

I have no doubt that if our guns can all step up simeltaneously we can beat them, but at the moment they're a fair bit ahead of us.

[Topdog]

My only query on them is, can they play any better? I think they have been super impressive but I imagine they have already peaked and it's only Round 5. They also have had no injury concerns bar Kossie missing 1 or 2 weeks.

Be interesting to watch them go about the year as they are reminding me of us last year.

[firstdogonthemoon]

I am now.

[LostDoggy]

Basing on the dogs performance in the last 2 games...I'm very afraid.

[bulldogtragic]

I am now.
I agree. This forum collectively says the list is the best they've ever seen it and it's full of superstars and changes each week is hard. If today and our season generally to date is our best, then yes, i am now a little worried.

[G-Mo77]

I'm not. I'm more confident than I was after the West Coast game. We are the unde dog now, hardly anyone gives us a chance at winning.

We will win!

[Mantis]

Yep.

To beat St.Kilda (or any other team that zones) you need to use the ball well and make smart decisions, something it sounds like we aren't doing.

This game comes at just the right time and it will be a good test of our character.

[Mofra]

Very worried on today's performance. We played dumb football, and didn't execute it very well either.

[comrade]

This game comes at just the right time and it will be a good test of our character.

I agree - gives us a chance to really see where we're at with our backs against the wall. A win here could kick start the season.

[Scraggers]

I think we match up aginst the Saints very well, so in a word ... NO !!

[Stefcep]

Our passing to the forwards need to be with more purpose and accuracy, and we can't afford ridiculous scorelines like 1.8. If we can take our opportunities, we will win. If not, i think we'll get done by 6-8 goals. And then there's adelaide and we're looking at 3-4. But one game at a time i suppose..

[LostDoggy]

Just resurrecting this thread as I thought it would be timely to review our thoughts from early in the season..

They've gone 16-0 and beaten all comers, so I believe that my early concerns were warranted.

Strangely enough, I'm more confident against them now than early on, probably because we've stabilised our own form and are looking a threat against anyone.

Riewoldt is playing out of his skin. I still feel that we match up well against them though, and it will be interesting this weekend -- it will mostly be won or lost above the shoulders I think (both the mental aspect and high marking), as fanatical commitment to the contest is not a physical issue between two equally fit and hardened teams.

[Ozza]

With Adelaide and Collingwood losing this weekend...we sort of get a free hit at St.Kilda - with their being no immediate consequence on ladder positioning.

I hope we really take them on in every department, and play somewhere near our best.

Its pretty important that we put in a good one - and roll that form through the West Coast, Freo and Brisbane matches.

[alwaysadog]

They've gone 16-0 and beaten all comers, so I believe that my early concerns were warranted.

Strangely enough, I'm more confident against them now than early on, probably because we've stabilised our own form and are looking a threat against anyone.

Riewoldt is playing out of his skin. I still feel that we match up well against them though, and it will be interesting this weekend -- it will mostly be won or lost above the shoulders I think (both the mental aspect and high marking), as fanatical commitment to the contest is not a physical issue between two equally fit and hardened teams.

Yes, it is all about mindset, that is why Lyon is playing yet again, excuse me while I yawn, the underdog card.

Any little advantage in this struggle is critical and even old nick can have his confidence undermined.

Our players have been talking about waiting to redeem themselves against Geelong, I just hope that a pretty ordinary performance earlier this year against the blond rinse mob is also a matter they need to put to rights.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know what to expect - the team that came out against Geelong or the team that came out against Collingwood. Either way, I think we will take it to the line with them. Still their defence is the best in the league and our forward line is dysfunctional at times - so I am not optimistic of the outcome.

[AndrewP6]

Yes, I'm worried, but then I've said that the last 4 weeks!...

[alwaysadog]

Yes, I'm worried, but then I've said that the last 4 weeks!...

It's a bit like at half time with the Hawthorn game when a Doggie supporting woman squeezing past said, "I must be dreaming" and I replied "Don't wake me up."

IMO we play very inconsistently, even in the Hawthorn game which we won by just under 100 points. We can be awful as in the first half or three quarters against the Pies and terrific as in the last quarter of the same game.

While we have shown a capacity to prevail and even the very best don't beat us by much it's a bit hard to say exactly why we struggle so much and then when we get on top why we haven't prevailed.

[Mofra]

IMO we play very inconsistently, even in the Hawthorn game which we won by just under 100 points. We can be awful as in the first half or three quarters against the Pies and terrific as in the last quarter of the same game.
We lost the 3rd quarter against the Hawks from memory.

I'm not sure scoring fast in bursts is necessarily a bad thing come September - if it is a grinding game, we can match another side for grit for all bar 5 minutes, and break the game open with 3 quick goals in a short period. It's what good sides can do - play worse then their opposition but still take the points. We have done that this season

[Sedat]

I'm not sure scoring fast in bursts is necessarily a bad thing come September - if it is a grinding game, we can match another side for grit for all bar 5 minutes, and break the game open with 3 quick goals in a short period. It's what good sides can do - play worse then their opposition but still take the points. We have done that this season
Agree with this in theory, but I'd hate for us to be asleep at the wheel and concede a 30+ points start in a final and have to rely on this to get back into the game. We are as destuctive as any team going around (Geelong and St Kilda included) at stringing together big bursts of consecutive goals but we absolutely need to do something about our poor starts - we were slow out of the blocks yet again on Friday night.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with this in theory, but I'd hate for us to be asleep at the wheel and concede a 30+ points start in a final and have to rely on this to get back into the game. We are as destuctive as any team going around (Geelong and St Kilda included) at stringing together big bursts of consecutive goals but we absolutely need to do something about our poor starts - we were slow out of the blocks yet again on Friday night.

Something tells me that if we allow St kilda to kick 5 quick ones in the first 10 minutes of the game, they won't be so accomodating. We simply cannot afford to fall asleep and rely on the fact that we can score heavily as a back up. We need to be in the contest against the good sides right throughout the 4 quarters to be any hope.

[Mantis]

Something tells me that if we allow St kilda to kick 5 quick ones in the first 10 minutes of the game, they won't be so accomodating. We simply cannot afford to fall asleep and rely on the fact that we can score heavily as a back up. We need to be in the contest against the good sides right throughout the 4 quarters to be any hope.

Geelong gave them a 5 goal start and were able to work there way back into the game. St.Kilda are a very good side, but they will give us chances during the game, we just have to take them.

[Mofra]

I don't want us to concede a big start to anyone, but our slow starts this year concern me more than any one opponent. At least we have the confidence within the group to know we can peg back almost any deficit, regardless of the flow of the game.

Game 1 last year was a huge comback by us in context, although the Saints defence is a completely different beast now.

[LostDoggy]

Geelong gave them a 5 goal start and were able to work there way back into the game. St.Kilda are a very good side, but they will give us chances during the game, we just have to take them.

Hopefully we won't be 6 goals down and waiting for those sorts of chances. I'd like to think that if we are any sort of shot this year we can be right up there with them for the the entire match.

[LostDoggy]

If we do go down by 6 goals and get up to win by 40+ points though my bet is that you'll see the old St Kilda come flooding back, the one that will lose the next 3 weeks to soft opponents and get bundled out of the finals in straight sets.

The old demons are all right there, just under the surface (ditto Geelong). They've done well keeping it in check for now, but you're not mentally soft for ten years and then suddenly become hardened overnight. They're lucky their list is so damned good.

[LostDoggy]

If we do go down by 6 goals and get up to win by 40+ points though my bet is that you'll see the old St Kilda come flooding back, the one that will lose the next 3 weeks to soft opponents and get bundled out of the finals in straight sets.

The old demons are all right there, just under the surface (ditto Geelong). They've done well keeping it in check for now, but you're not mentally soft for ten years and then suddenly become hardened overnight. They're lucky their list is so damned good.

Since you put it that way how can I refuse??!?:D

[LostDoggy]

Since you put it that way how can I refuse??!?:D

Haha -- I'm not suggesting we try it, mind you!

[LostDoggy]

I don't think it was just mental softness with St Kilda. I have never seen a team that is so dam unlucky when it came to injuries. Did n't they pinch someone from our club a few years back as fitness coach?

[boydogs]

I don't think it was just mental softness with St Kilda

Round 3 2008
Western Bulldogs 1.2 6.6 11.9 19.11 125
St Kilda Saints 7.3 9.6 10.8 13.9 87

37 points up at quarter time they crumbled and lost the game by 38. The 2009 Saints are supposed to be a completely different side, but I still question them if they fall behind (would like to have seen Geelong get a lead against them) and when it comes to finals

[Mantis]

37 points up at quarter time they crumbled and lost the game by 38. The 2009 Saints are supposed to be a completely different side, but I still question them if they fall behind (would like to have seen Geelong get a lead against them) and when it comes to finals

It hasn't happened for a bloody long time so it is hard to gauge how they will go in this situation.

They are a very good front running side, but I think we all are waiting for them to crack under pressure. Hopefully we can get off to a good start this week and then we will get to see how they respond, but on our past form this (fast start) hasn't happened too often this year.

[LostDoggy]

I have a good feeling about this game. I think our boys have got the Saints at the right time, been over to W.A then came back and played a good side in the crows last week (even though it turned out to be a relatively easy match) and the 6 day break. Im looking forward to going to the match!