Why doesn't Rocket drop the players who are out of form?

[LostDoggy]

Just wondering that's all. :D

[LostDoggy]

Great thread.

My prediction, Tiller in this week & then out the next :D

[azabob]

Just wondering that's all. :D

Maybe our younger players are not up to it as much as we think. But you would think out of the "senior players" Hahn and Minson will be under the most pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

O'Keefe and Reid both mentioned in the bests for Willi again this Week.

I say bring them both in for Ward and Hahn. at minimum.

Reward constant performance at the twos, and rop some reputations and say earn back some respect.

[LostDoggy]

But are we willing to "carry" three newish players against a hard nut unit like the Saints?

[bulldogtragic]

But are we willing to "carry" three newish players against a hard nut unit like the Saints?
The next game is Adelaide at AAMI.

Not too much difference as they have a lot of hard bodies too. If form warrants kids to come in, even 3 then so be it, i think.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The thing that concerns me is that despite knowing we had a torried early season schedule with 2 trips to Perth, we have seemed to roll the dice with pretty much the same line up over this stretch. Apart from changes made to cover Cooney, and dropping Tiller for Harbrow.

I think we could've rested Hahn, and one of Hudson/Minson at some stage, possibly after the Roos game, which was on a slightly heavy track.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The next game is Adelaide at AAMI.

Not too much difference as they have a lot of hard bodies too. If form warrants kids to come in, even 3 then so be it, i think.

Our next game is the Saints on Sunday.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Is Eade coaching for a contract and that's why we are taking the conservative option with the big names.

I think that the leadership group let us down today not the young kids. just the same we don't want to have to many in the one group and will need the hard body's of Aker, Tillier, Callan & Everitt looks like we do have a few options!

[LostDoggy]

If you not performing then your out, it's simple IMO.

If you have guys being great football at Williamstown, they then deserve a run.

[LostDoggy]

The next game is Adelaide at AAMI.

Not too much difference as they have a lot of hard bodies too. If form warrants kids to come in, even 3 then so be it, i think.

No, unfortunately the next game is against St. Kilda

[bulldogtragic]

Our next game is the Saints on Sunday.
Sorry. I was meaning if we dropped them for this week as the Saints were heavy bodied, it would be not much difference as the week after was the Crows at AAMI which is just as tough.

PLay them when ready is my essential point.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry. I was meaning if we dropped them for this week as the Saints were heavy bodied, it would be not much difference as the week after was the Crows at AAMI which is just as tough.

PLay them when ready is my essential point.
Everitt os the forgotten man.

Beats his opponent every week in the magoos, i and out of the bests which is sometuimes hard as a defemder. His inclusion and regular good footy improves the team. Where is he?

[GVGjr]

O'Keefe and Reid both mentioned in the bests for Willi again this Week.

I say bring them both in for Ward and Hahn. at minimum.

Reward constant performance at the twos, and rop some reputations and say earn back some respect.

Reid was a bit better than O'Keefe today from what I have seen and Tiller was pretty good as well with limited opportunities.

[LostDoggy]

Well we'll look at it this way: Hahn, Minson, Cross are "big" names that are struggling. Guido, Eagleton are players that are always picked on to be dropped because well, they're just the easy targets.

If there is going to be a player dropped from those 5 - I'd say it would be Minson - to make way for an in form Skipper.

I don't think Hahn will ever be dropped, it's just not going to be happen, so it's time to move on to what's actually going to happen.

[AndrewP6]

If form called for players to be dropped, it'd be about 10 players... Grant showed today that good form at Willy means zero on the big stage. I'm a Hahn fan, but maybe it's time for him to go back. Gia I thought saved his bacon with a couple of majors.

[alwaysadog]

But are we willing to "carry" three newish players against a hard nut unit like the Saints?

That seemed to be the catch cry during our wallywood years and when the old reliables started to age we had no one to take their place. Don't play them just for the sake of it, but play them if they merit it and are the best options based on form.

[Mofra]

Minson certainly wasn't our worst - actually managed to take a couple of grabs today.

We desperately need an entire HF line based on today's efforts. If Skipper performs, I'd almost be willing to try Minson, Hudson & Skipper in the same side.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I thought Giansiracusa was poor today, and he's one we expect to be more than just a handy player

We actually need him to stand up and regularly influence games. If he is fit then what he has served up the past fortnight is just not good enough for a player of his experience.

I think he needs to be sent the clear message that he is not producing enough.

[boydogs]

Gia had 18 possessions, 6 marks and 2 goals. How about Lindsay Gilbee?

[Mofra]

Gia had 18 possessions, 6 marks and 2 goals. How about Lindsay Gilbee?
I would perhaps play Gilbee off the HBF, you know Rocket, where he was one of the most damaging players in the comp.

Betts tearing Harbrow a new one, why not move Gilbee back & try make Betts accountable for a rebounder?

[Templeton31]

FWIW when Rocket got the job I asked my Swans mates what they thought of him. They said good coach but he has his favorites who he doesnt drop.....

[boydogs]

I didn't like the player selections or positioning for this game, including Hahn, Minson and Ward being left in, Callan not being brought in for Betts but Harbrow getting him instead, Griffen being deep forward, Murphy up the back, Grant being played too far up the ground, also the use of Lake, Williams and Gilbee further forward than they are suited to being.

[AndrewP6]

I didn't like the player selections or positioning for this game, including Hahn, Minson and Ward being left in, Callan not being brought in for Betts but Harbrow getting him instead, Griffen being deep forward, Murphy up the back, Grant being played too far up the ground, also the use of Lake, Williams and Gilbee further forward than they are suited to being.

Thought there were some unusual decisions, but in Rocket's defence...things obviously aren't working, and when that is happening, you've got to try some new things... no point doing the same thing over and over.

[LostDoggy]

Stupid question.
Firstly all coaches have favourites.

Rocket hasn't dropped anyone of great note yet cos those in the reserves aren't much better and we were 3-1 before this week.

[boydogs]

Thought there were some unusual decisions, but in Rocket's defence...things obviously aren't working, and when that is happening, you've got to try some new things... no point doing the same thing over and over.

Definitely an element of that, though I thought we did that a bit last week and not much worked, and there should have been more selection changes to cover for this week

Also it wasn't just as the game progressed - early days Jarrad Grant had to have a 50 metre penalty awarded to him to be in goal scoring range from where he marked the ball, and Harbrow was on Betts all day

I would be disappointed if there weren't changes for next week to cover areas where we experimented with positional changes today that didn't work again

[AndrewP6]

Definitely an element of that, though I thought we did that a bit last week and not much worked, and there should have been more selection changes to cover for this week

Also it wasn't just as the game progressed - early days Jarrad Grant had to have a 50 metre penalty awarded to him to be in goal scoring range from where he marked the ball, and Harbrow was on Betts all day

I would be disappointed if there weren't changes for next week to cover areas where we experimented with positional changes today that didn't work again

Agreed on the need for changes...but I'd use poor form as a reason, not being played in the wrong spots.

[bulldogtragic]

Stupid question.
Firstly all coaches have favourites.

Rocket hasn't dropped anyone of great note yet cos those in the reserves aren't much better and we were 3-1 before this week.
I'm just surprised everyone else is getting blamed except Lake who if he kicked the goal and took momentum into the last quarter could have gave us a win.

[boydogs]

Agreed on the need for changes...but I'd use poor form as a reason, not being played in the wrong spots.

Absolutely, if Hahn was firing for example the forward moves could have been avoided, we need more from our forwards than he is giving in terms of both attack and defensive pressure. Things like the goal assist to Hill is what he is there for, but this year those moments have been too few

[AndrewP6]

I'm just surprised everyone else is getting blamed except Lake who if he kicked the goal and took momentum into the last quarter could have gave us a win.

Yes, Lake messed up... I felt the game was about to change there...but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe in making a stuff-up.... unorthodox, but he actually had some impact in the forward line, something few others did on the day. And he did play forward as a junior! ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Yes, Lake messed up... I felt the game was about to change there...but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe in making a stuff-up.... unorthodox, but he actually had some impact in the forward line, something few others did on the day. And he did play forward as a junior! ;)
He came to the club as a Full Forward.

I recall Brian Taylor on mant, many occasions saying he had the best leap he had ever seen ina FF and great dukes.

Then we turned him into a FB.

[boydogs]

Even stranger then that he wouldn't go back and kick for goal - can't even say he kicked it like a defender. Nice mark though

[The Adelaide Connection]

Grant showed today that good form at Willy means zero on the big stage.

He did at times look like he was completely lost today. But in his defence the way we were moving the ball into the forwardline was very shambolic for most of the day. I think he had a good lace out pass once and he took a strong grab. Unfortunately he had the longest run up I have ever seen for a 20m set shot and his legs were probably too tired from it to kick truly.

I'd be tempted to leave him in for one more week, with the likes of Aker and Cooney coming in our supply should improve. He looked great pre-season with the way he was grabbing the ball and his kicking has been pretty good for Willy. I just feel like if he slots one he is going to kick a bag and we should persevere in the same way that the Crows have with Tippett and Walker who are now starting to step up a bit after finding the going tough initially (both were kicking bags in the SANFL too from memory).

[LostDoggy]

He did at times look like he was completely lost today. But in his defence the way we were moving the ball into the forwardline was very shambolic for most of the day. I think he had a good lace out pass once and he took a strong grab. Unfortunately he had the longest run up I have ever seen for a 20m set shot and his legs were probably too tired from it to kick truly.

I'd be tempted to leave him in for one more week, with the likes of Aker and Cooney coming in our supply should improve. He looked great pre-season with the way he was grabbing the ball and his kicking has been pretty good for Willy. I just feel like if he slots one he is going to kick a bag and we should persevere in the same way that the Crows have with Tippett and Walker who are now starting to step up a bit after finding the going tough initially (both were kicking bags in the SANFL too from memory).

Totally agree.

[Stefcep]

I'm just surprised everyone else is getting blamed except Lake who if he kicked the goal and took momentum into the last quarter could have gave us a win.
Yep there are game-deciding moments and that was it.

[Sedat]

I'm just surprised everyone else is getting blamed except Lake who if he kicked the goal and took momentum into the last quarter could have gave us a win.
Cross not taking the 25 metre shot for goal on the run and in the clear in the 2nd qtr was every bit as costly, and was the catalyst for the lost momentum which resulted in Carlton kicking the last 5 goals in the 2nd qtr. Didn't help when Hahn burst through half forward with a 2-on-2 in acres of space up forward and then, instead of spotting one of the players up, scrubbed a helicopter to the Carlton defender's advantage also in the 2nd qtr.

The 3 goals gifted to Carlton in our defensive goal square as a result of fumbles and turovers when we had control of the ball didn't exactly help. Neither did Harbrow's appalling effort to pin Betts in the pocket with an attempted 'tackle' in the 1st qtr. Addison's 2 costly turnovers that resulted in Carlton goals didn't help matters. Jarrad Grant missing a set shot from 20 metres wasn't what the doctor ordered at the time either, not to mention Lake's set shot miss from a similar distance in the 3rd, or a host of missed set shots early in the match.

By all means pot Lake for taking a terrible option to handpass instead of kick the goal at a time when we were mounting some sort of challenge but we can't give a chop-out to the countless other moments that cost us dearly over the course of the game.

[LostDoggy]

Well summed up Sedat - it is the decision making and the skill errors that are killing the team at the moment - even with a 3-1 record going in it is as if there is a totla lack of confidence across the player group and an inability to handle the pressure that Carlton provided yesterday.

[alwaysadog]

Yes, Lake messed up... I felt the game was about to change there...but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe in making a stuff-up.... unorthodox, but he actually had some impact in the forward line, something few others did on the day. And he did play forward as a junior! ;)

I seem to remember him playing his first few games for us at FF.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Gia had 18 possessions, 6 marks and 2 goals. How about Lindsay Gilbee?

His numbers look ok, but he had no impact, got his touches out wide when we switched the ball, got one of his goals from a similar piece of play

Did not win enough contested ball until the game was over in the 4th,

[Ozza]

His numbers look ok, but he had no impact, got his touches out wide when we switched the ball, got one of his goals from a similar piece of play

Did not win enough contested ball until the game was over in the 4th,

Bullsh1t.
Gia was the player who got us going when we began to get a run on in the thrid quarter.

I went to the after match function and listened to Leon Cameron. Some key points he spoke about:

- We won the hardball gets and smashed them in the clearances. But 13 of their goals were from our turnovers, and we had no fwd line pressure whatsoever. (Lazy Mitch Hahn take a bow).

- Re: Lindsey Gilbee, he said - Gilbs is getting tagged each week and isn't dealing with it well - and they're disappointed in that and said he needs to work through it alot better.

- Re: Everitt - Leon basically said that they don't give out senior positions on a platter. He said they were disappointed in Andrejs last year and that his 2's form hasn't warranted him getting into the side.

- He gave Matty Boyd a big wrap for his game on Judd.

- Leon was asked about Welsh. Said Welsh has had back problems, and since then his form hasn't been great. Didn't leave me with the impression that Welsh was close to getting a game.

Thats what I can remember off hand anyways.

[LostDoggy]

- Re: Everitt - Leon basically said that they don't give out senior positions on a platter. He said they were disappointed in Andrejs last year and that his 2's form hasn't warranted him getting into the side.

All the more reason why it was way too early to hand #3 to him. I was surprised at the time, because I thought it was premature. As much as I am hoping he comes good ... that number is usually reserved for players that show a bit from day dot, and then earn it progressively over the years.

[Mofra]

All the more reason why it was way too early to hand #3 to him. I was surprised at the time, because I thought it was premature. As much as I am hoping he comes good ... that number is usually reserved for players that show a bit from day dot, and then earn it progressively over the years.
Look at Geelong - Travis Varcoe was given no 5 :eek:

[bornadog]

The thing that concerns me is that despite knowing we had a torried early season schedule with 2 trips to Perth, we have seemed to roll the dice with pretty much the same line up over this stretch. Apart from changes made to cover Cooney, and dropping Tiller for Harbrow.

I think we could've rested Hahn, and one of Hudson/Minson at some stage, possibly after the Roos game, which was on a slightly heavy track.

Yet the coach said before the two WA games, he was going to freshen up the team by bringing in new players, and hasn't really done that with the midfield where we are lacking in run at the moment.