Game Day - Bulldogs vs Saints

[GVGjr]

This is the discussion thread for this evenings clash against the undefeated Saints

My predictions today are:
The Dogs by 5 points in a come from behind win, Cross BOG and Hill for the first goal.

[angelopetraglia]

Dogs by 1pt.

Griff BOG.

Gia off the bench for the first.

Gee Whiz it is a long day waiting for 4:40pm football.

[bornadog]

Dogs by 17 points

BOG = Gilbee

First goal = Higgins

[DOG GOD]

Saints by 25 pts

Hill 1st goal

Boyd best for dogs.

[1eyedog]

The Saints are untested so far this season but we will obviously need to bring our A game to beat them. If they are put under the microscope and we score heavily the Saints are a team who will buckle. I think if their zones can be breached through direct football and 1st class skills we will beat them. We must be on our game because with the Saints in white-hot form any turnovers will result in goals. I think we can smash them tonight and win by 28 points. Cooney to find top gear and If Kosi doesn't play and Williams does Williams will kick the first goal from a strong mark......ah too dream.....

[Mantis]

Saints by 18. I just don't think we are at our peak as yet, but I am expecting a much improved performance which could result in a win.

Time for Griffen to stand up and I am expecting him to play a very good game.

1st goal to Higgins.

Go Dogs!!!

[Max469]

Hard one - hate them with a passion.

Dogs by 4 pts

Gia - 1st major

Griff - BOG

[bornadog]

The biggest concern for me in this game is both Cooney and Murphy are not at their peek, but can still be dangerous if St Kilda do not give them any respect. Gilbee needs to break the shackles and forget about the tags and go about his business as we have missed his drive the past two weeks. The midfield must deliver the ball accurately into the forward line and give the forwards some chance.

Last week against Carlton, I think we went too defensive and lost some of our run. We put Judd, Stevens, Fevola and Betts out of the game and also Murphy was well held in the first half, but forgot to kick goals, so I expect this week we should be attacking and forgetting about tagging their players. Of course Milne can always be dangerous and the defenders will have to ensure he has no influence.

It will be a battle of tactics right through the game and the Dogs must get off to a good start in the first quarter.

[Mantis]

It will be a battle of tactics right through the game and the Dogs must get off to a good start in the first quarter.

Super important... I don't think it can be stressed enough that we must make the most of our chances. We can't afford to have another off game (especially early) with our goal-kicking.

[comrade]

Yep, the only time the Saints have felt scoreboard pressure they fell behind by 7 goals to the Swans in Round 1. If we get that far in front we won't lose.

Dogs by 11.
Aker BOG.
Higgins 1st goal.

[BulldogBelle]

Dogs by 12 points
BOG: Daniel Cross
First goal to Brad Johnson

[Scraggers]

Dogs by 17 points
Morris B.O.G.
Aker first and last goal

[The Underdog]

Dogs by -15
Lake BOG
Johnson first goal

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 23.
Minson first goal.
Boyd BOG.

Good start with straight kicking is crucial. Aker to fire and Griffen (I hope) to stand up and show us that he is an on baller who can consistently dominate a game - not just burst in and out of it!

[bulldogtragic]

Saints by 36 points
Gilbee - BOG
Gilbee - First Goal
Eagleton - One more closer to 250 games

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 7
Johno - First Goal
Higgins - BOG

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by a couple of goals.
Johnson for the first, Gia BOG.

[Rocket Science]

Saints by 49 points
Johnno first major
Hill BOG

[Happy Days]

Saints by 42,
Aker 1st goal,
Higgins BOG.

Not going to be a good day for us. If we continue to just bomb it into our fifty at no target in particular, look for Sam Fisher to cut us to pieces. Hopefully I'm wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

[AndrewP6]

Going against my pessimistic nature...but the last time I tipped against the Dogs we won!

Dogs by 7 pts...
Griff BOG
First Bulldog goal to Johnno...

I only hope it isn't too ugly..

[The Pie Man]

Saints by 3-4 goals. If as we expect T Williams pulls out, it will really hurt us. I still expect a vast improvement on last week.

Aka first goal for us, Cross to shove it up my .... for bagging him last weekend and be near our best.

Geez it'd be nice to win

[boydogs]

Dogs by 18 points, low scoring with backlines to dominate
Johnno first goal and BOG

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 16 points. First goal to Aker.

[Mofra]

Dogs by 7 points, Cooney to play mostly forward and kick 4

[LostDoggy]

Umm, Dogs by 5 points in a tight tussle. Let's hope we get off to a good start tonight - we seem to have started very slowly the last few weeks.

I agree with another post, 4.40 p.m. footy is hard to wait for :)

[BulldogBelle]

Saints by 20 points.
Boyd BOG
Aker first goal.

[chef]

Saints by 19
Aka first goal
Hill BOG

[LostDoggy]

Saints by 27 (unfortunately-they're in top form atm, we aren't)
Johnson first goal
Hahn BOG (he might be under pressure to perform so he'll kick a bag)

[Scorlibo]

Everitt in for Williams the late change.

[Dry Rot]

From the ABC radio call, it appears we have no forward line.

[LostDoggy]

Farren Ray - leadin possession getter on the ground at half time. :eek:

Sounds like we are playing a particularly uninspiring brand of footy!

[Rocket Science]

They're right. We've been solid in two thirds of the ground but let down by the dysfunction up forward, and a handful of poor decisions across half forward. One tends to compound the other.

Pressure through the middle has been much improved from the past two weeks, save for a 5 minute lapse late in the half, and that's all the Saints needed to put some distance between us.

Addison's chip across half-forward to Eagleton with 30 seconds left resulting in a turnover and Riewoldt goal on the siren was an obvious killer.

Odd as it might sound, we look most dangerous when we get it forward quickly, even if the method isn't so measured.

Our prime movers simply must find more of the ball...I'm talking Gilbee, Griffen and Cooney. They're getting half the ball the Saints' distributors (Goddard, Dal Santo, Ray) are.

[Scorlibo]

I cannot express just how frustrating this is - we are matching them time after time at the contests but then moving the ball forward St Kilda are always first to the ball when it hits the deck and then are rebounding with absolute ease because whenever we enter the forward fifty our players are running forward at full pelt like it's under 10s. Whatever happened to the wall? We need to create more space in the forward fifty which is hard against the Saints defensive set-up.

We won't win and we won't win the flag either.

[LostDoggy]

Should Minson be worried? (about the elbow) Saints played how we should be.

[Rocket Science]

He connected, but Goddard's reaction suggests the impact was fairly light.

His problem is it didn't 'look' good. A deliberately cocked elbow, five metres behind the play, clearly thrust at an opponents' head, which found the mark.

Not sure about any priors, but wouldn't be surprised if he copped a week. Wayde Skipper, come on down.

It was pretty unitelligent, much like our play in general.

[Rance Fan]

How i saw it

Positives
Everitt, Harbrow, Picken, HIll, Minson, murphy

Negatives
Gia, Gilbee, Hahn

[aker39]

How i saw it

Positives
Everitt, Harbrow, Picken, HIll, Minson, murphy

Negatives
Gia, Gilbee, Hahn


Sorry, but I didn't see a great deal of positives coming from him tonight.

[LostDoggy]

From the ABC radio call, it appears we have no forward line.

When your midfield ball winners and best players don't get a kick it doesn't matter if you have a forward line or not.

[LostDoggy]

The Good:

Minson excellent tap work and good grabs around the ground will keep his spot against Adelaide (unless suspended) and I'd also like to see him stop having Brian Lake brain farts too.

Bob Murphy getting some touch and match fitness

Everitt kept his spot for Adelaide and never stopped trying.

Winning the final quarter - it may not be a big positive, but the dogs showed they were able to run out the game - just where was this type of scoreboard pressure earlier in the match!!:mad:

Josh Hill keeps getting better and better and would benefit enormously from having a big power forward to either kick to or play off from.

Picken had another good game and should be sicked on to Tyson Edwards against the Crows.

No injuries and I can't say no reports because Big Willy may be in trouble.

Cooney came through the game and will be better for the run.


The Bad:

Turnovers and bad decision making, there were about 5 goals worth of mistakes that could have been goals for the dogs, but they took the wrong option and the Saints ended up with the goals:(

A couple of instances of unaccountable football - Adam Schneider was unmanned for the majority of the game and forward pressure was patchy with the Saints getting the ball out easily.

The Ugly:

The lack of a forward structure. With a forward line of midgets, the dogs have to be precise with their kicking and handballing skills - one mistake and the chance is lost.

There were many stupid options that were taken or bad handballs/kicks that just sucked the momentum of the dogs. It was like a nice chain of possessions and then one mistake and there goes all the hard work. Very Frustrating. And it's very frustrating supporting this club too :mad:


The Harbrow Opinion:

There have been conflicting opinions about Harbrow's game - Eade says he was one of our best - he must know some stats I don't know - I watched Harbrow closely and he gave Milne way too much room, Milne may not have kicked many goals but he created plenty of opportunities for the big forwards. Just my opinion that's all...I don't trust Harbrow as a small forward defender - I'd much rather have Tim Callan being utilised in that role.


The Crows:

*sigh* The dogs haven't won at AAMI stadium in a loooooooong time. There's been some nightmare games there - I remember a game where the dogs kicked less than 8 goals for the whole match. The dogs may have a small chance seeing as the crows are coming back from a Showdown, but I just don't know. I would love it if Rocket would give Skipper a go as a permanent full forward as just a tall forward option with good hands.

Minson is a ruckman first and a forward option second - he was every effective as an around the ground target but he shouldn't be put up on the forward line as THE big forward to take grabs.

*sigh* What a crappy way to end the weekend.

[ledge]

All i can say is KICK THE F#%$ING thing!
Did we join a handball competition in the last 3 weeks?
I thought the game was called football!
Was interesting every bulldog supporter said the same thing at the end of every quarter in the interviews.

[LostDoggy]

Kick the ball and it's a turnover, the Saints have a zone and the dogs were trying to bust the zone through handball. Unfortunately, their skills let them down.

This always amuses me the whole "just kick the ball" mentality - what happens if the player kicks it and goes straight to a 1 dog vs 4 opposition situation? That wouldn't be very good now would it:cool:

[GVGjr]

Kick the ball and it's a turnover, the Saints have a zone and the dogs were trying to bust the zone through handball. Unfortunately, their skills let them down.

This always amuses me the whole "just kick the ball" mentality - what happens if the player kicks it and goes straight to a 1 dog vs 4 opposition situation? That wouldn't be very good now would it:cool:

There are two expressions I heard tonight.
1) they need to kick the thing
2) they should play the kids

Both these expressions are said whenever we are playing poorly and neither are necessarily a cure for the problem.

[Mantis]

All i can say is KICK THE F#%$ING thing!
Did we join a handball competition in the last 3 weeks?
I thought the game was called football!
Was interesting every bulldog supporter said the same thing at the end of every quarter in the interviews.

Our kick to handball ratio for todays game was 1.08, St.Kildas was 1.21.

Interestingly Geelong's kick to handball ratio for todays game was 0.92. (239 kicks/ 259 handballs)

Make of that what you want ledge.

[LostDoggy]

The Harbrow Opinion:

There have been conflicting opinions about Harbrow's game - Eade says he was one of our best - he must know some stats I don't know - I watched Harbrow closely and he gave Milne way too much room, Milne may not have kicked many goals but he created plenty of opportunities for the big forwards. Just my opinion that's all...I don't trust Harbrow as a small forward defender - I'd much rather have Tim Callan being utilised in that role.


Not sure what game you were watching, Milne did bugger all. Calllan is better than Harbrow in that role but wasn't available.

[GVGjr]

Not sure what game you were watching, Milne did bugger all. Calllan is better than Harbrow in that role but wasn't available.


Callan played for Williamstown yesterday and he has played 3 games in a row for them.

[bulldogtragic]

Our kick to handball ratio for todays game was 1.08, St.Kildas was 1.21.

Interestingly Geelong's kick to handball ratio for todays game was 0.92. (239 kicks/ 259 handballs)

Make of that what you want ledge.
Gotta love stats, especially in the modern game.

Very impressive Mantis. very.

[LostDoggy]

I just don't understand this love affair with Harbrow, I watched him and Milne closely and he gave Milne too much room, one defensive error actually lead to a goal assist from Milne.

Callan played for Williamstown on Saturday (I know because I was there) and he looked fit to me.

[LostDoggy]

Callan played for Williamstown yesterday and he has played 3 games in a row for them.

From what I heard, he would have played this week had he not got crunched by Thompson last week. Back or ribs?

[LostDoggy]

I just don't understand this love affair with Harbrow, I watched him and Milne closely and he gave Milne too much room, one defensive error actually lead to a goal assist from Milne.

Callan played for Williamstown on Saturday (I know because I was there) and he looked fit to me.

Milne didn't kill us? Take a look who was on Ray, Riewoldt, Goodard, etc.

1 defensive error isn't bad game either.

[LostDoggy]

I didn't say Milne killed us, I'm saying Harbrow did not do his job as well as he could have.....that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it and I'm not changing my mind - kind of like Rocket making up his mind and not dropping players and putting in players as suggested by fellow Woofers.

[LostDoggy]

From what I heard, he would have played this week had he not got crunched by Thompson last week. Back or ribs?

From what we saw, he was playing okay and looks like a tank and could seriously do some damage to opposition small forwards.

[LostDoggy]

I didn't say Milne killed us, I'm saying Harbrow did not do his job as well as he could have.....that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it and I'm not changing my mind - kind of like Rocket making up his mind and not dropping players and putting in players as suggested by fellow Woofers.

We had 22 players that didn't do there job today.
If Harbrow job was to stop Milne then he did his role a lot better than of others.

[LostDoggy]

Fine that's your opinion, but I'm sticking to mine.

[AndrewP6]

***repeating quietly to self "don't get over-emotional"***

Our disposal and decision making were two terrible areas again, I thought. With the famous defensive pressure of the Saints, we make them look good when we kick or handball to highly contested situations. How many 1 on 2, 1 on 3 or 1 on 4 contests did we deliver the ball to?

Our backs I thought weren't too bad. Shaggy did a great job, Lake had his moments. Good efforts by Everitt, IMO... should keep his spot based on those efforts.

Midfield is struggling... Cooney not fit, but looked a touch better than last time...Did I really see him run over the ball in the goal square? Griffen tried hard. I don't think we do enough to support him. Rather than just expecting him to burst through packs - run with him, shepherd, block players... Aker is OK at this... Even Boyd didn't look that good...Addison was near invisible.

Our forward line... god, what the hell is going on there... for all his detractors, I thought Will did very well down there... took some good grabs, created a contest. What happened to smalls being at the bottom of a contest to crumb the loose ball...Anyone else noticed the last couple of weeks, we've had Matt Boyd down forward trying to score? If we need that, we're in strife.

We just don't look desperate...anywhere on the ground.

[LostDoggy]

Fine that's your opinion, but I'm sticking to mine.

No worries. Probably easier to hide behind statements like that than back up your incorrect claims with some evidence.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not allowed to have an opinion anymore? Right or Wrong, it's still an opinion, why do you have to be so antagonistic? I'll let you have the final word of course.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not allowed to have an opinion anymore? Right or Wrong, it's still an opinion, why do you have to be so antagonistic? I'll let you have the final word of course.

Who said you aren't allowed to have an opinion? I'd expect myself to be picked up if I made an outlandish statement with incorrect observations.

[LostDoggy]

Out of my whole summary that's the one thing you say is outlandish and and incorrect....I'll take that any day : )

[The Underdog]

***repeating quietly to self "don't get over-emotional"***

Our disposal and decision making were two terrible areas again, I thought. With the famous defensive pressure of the Saints, we make them look good when we kick or handball to highly contested situations. How many 1 on 2, 1 on 3 or 1 on 4 contests did we deliver the ball to?

Our backs I thought weren't too bad. Shaggy did a great job, Lake had his moments. Good efforts by Everitt, IMO... should keep his spot based on those efforts.

Midfield is struggling... Cooney not fit, but looked a touch better than last time...Did I really see him run over the ball in the goal square? Griffen tried hard. I don't think we do enough to support him. Rather than just expecting him to burst through packs - run with him, shepherd, block players... Aker is OK at this... Even Boyd didn't look that good...Addison was near invisible.

Our forward line... god, what the hell is going on there... for all his detractors, I thought Will did very well down there... took some good grabs, created a contest. What happened to smalls being at the bottom of a contest to crumb the loose ball...Anyone else noticed the last couple of weeks, we've had Matt Boyd down forward trying to score? If we need that, we're in strife.

We just don't look desperate...anywhere on the ground.

Agree, I thought Everitt's efforts to support and work in the backline were really impressive. One situation in the middle where he had two Saints running through he played perfectly, creating pressure and resulting in a point rather than what should have been a goal.

[Stefcep]

Our forward line... god, what the hell is going on there...


What's going on is that the delivery from the midfielders is haphazard. Even though the Saints have two tall marking fowards in Reiwoldt anf Kozzie, they took their marks on the chest or out in front by leading into space knowing that they would be on the end of a decent pass.


The defense was under pressure because the midfielders didn't win the clearances from the centre. Then the forwards didn't put enough pressure on the saints defence so the ball was always coming back easily. Thirdly the defence was putting itself under pressure from the kick-ins: we take too long, and the defenders seem incapable of losing their man at the kick-ins (but thats also due to the Saint forwards manning up an putting pressure on our defenders). Basically when you look at that, we have big problems all over the ground at the moment.

[AndrewP6]

What's going on is that the delivery from the midfielders is haphazard. Even though the Saints have two tall marking fowards in Reiwoldt anf Kozzie,


It seems like everytime we go forward, our forwards aren't even there, let alone making leads... if we had Riewoldt in the team, we'd have won the granny by now!:)

[LostDoggy]

Really frustrated about now:mad: This is all very reminiscent of 2007 - one good year seems to be always followed by a bad year.

The Good: I thought Minson could not be faulted on his endeavour - he is not and never has been a full forward but he tries. Griffin did a couple of good things, however the best player for me was Josh Hill - that boy will take mark of the year one day;) Hargraves did a couple of good things - along with Higgins.

The bad: Our defence was rattled and I didn't even see Gilbee until he goaled late in the game. Lake's miss was bad, but so was Gia's, Murphy's and Cooney's did not even make the distance if that was what he was trying to do. Where is the forward line? We desperately need Welsh back to give us some structure. I hate to say it but Johno looks past his use by date:(

There seems to be no desperation, no tackling, no communication, no interest - the game was exactly what we watched in 2007, bombing it into the forward line and hoping someone can mark it, poor skills and no big bodied pressure.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Our forward half is really painful to watch at the moment.

Whilst I don't think our midfield is doing nearly enough, our forwards haven't applied any defensive pressure since ... last year? It's shocking to watch. Hahn, Gia, Johnson, Minson & even Hill are incredibly passive at allowing their man to stream through the corridor practically under no pressure whatsoever. If they don't mark the ball and/or take possession of the pill straight away, they're virtual trampolines - the opposition seem to work the ball through their back half and through the midfield with serious ease.

Most of us knew this was a bit of an issue, but so far this season it's really killed us. We're extremely one paced up forward too.

Across the ground, we're taking far too long to make the correct decision. How many "hospital handpasses" have we seen in the last three weeks? It's been unbelievable. Our skill level is dreadful but most alarming is the fact that we have absolutely NO structure. In the first few games we controlled the football and moved/switched it around until we could release a player. Lately, all we're doing is bombing long and missing targets.

Another thing; why play Lake as a defender if he's going to pick up a third or fourth string player? Cloke/Gwilt have beaten him in the last two weeks. He's caught between trying to play as a loose man to take relatively uncontested marks, and minding/dominating a lesser opponent. The massive problem is he's doing neither. Morris was killed today and Gwilt took the honours. Bad coaching IMO - Lake needs to do what he's supposed to do. Take the gorilla forward that plays deep and play off him where possible. At the moment he's giving us nothing and it's hurting.

Gilbee needs to play across half back - the midfield experiment has failed badly. Johnson should never play midfield - he cannot make decisions and/or execute the skill. He turned it over a few times today and looked pretty horrible doing so. Why on earth would he play anywhere but FF/FP?

There's a lot of worrying signs. Harbrow is not a defender and re desperately require his defensive pressure up forward. Griffen is being tagged out of games, rarely giving us any run at all. Minson should NOT be leading up to the half forward area - as soon as he drops the mark, he's completely out of the contest and the opposition run away with the ball. Hahn/Gia both shouldn't play next week, they're probably in career worse form. Murph/Cooney still look 2-3 weeks away and Addison has been very ordinary the last three weeks. I'd bring back Callan as soon as possible - we miss him.

On a positive note, Everitt looked OK today and probably played his best game since his debut year. He moved a lot better and anticipated the contest/flight of the ball much better. Some good spoils and his skills were solid.

[LostDoggy]

Really frustrated about now:mad: This is all very reminiscent of 2007 - one good year seems to be always followed by a bad year.

The Good: I thought Minson could not be faulted on his endeavour - he is not and never has been a full forward but he tries. Griffin did a couple of good things, however the best player for me was Josh Hill - that boy will take mark of the year one day;) Hargraves did a couple of good things - along with Higgins.

The bad: Our defence was rattled and I didn't even see Gilbee until he goaled late in the game. Lake's miss was bad, but so was Gia's, Murphy's and Cooney's did not even make the distance if that was what he was trying to do. Where is the forward line? We desperately need Welsh back to give us some structure. I hate to say it but Johno looks past his use by date:(

There seems to be no desperation, no tackling, no communication, no interest - the game was exactly what we watched in 2007, bombing it into the forward line and hoping someone can mark it, poor skills and no big bodied pressure.

When the players are told to just KICK THE &$$&*$ THING, they're just following instructions

[mighty_west]

I didn't say Milne killed us, I'm saying Harbrow did not do his job as well as he could have.....that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it and I'm not changing my mind - kind of like Rocket making up his mind and not dropping players and putting in players as suggested by fellow Woofers.

I actually thought Harbrow did a pretty good job on the Tip Rat, a few times he tried to blind turn & dummy Harbrow, but Harbrow was too smart for that, happened a few times, how many goals did Milne actually kick?

I also agree Timmy Callan should play ahead of Harbrow as that small defender, has a bigger body etc, but having Harbrow play that role didn't cost us the game by any stretch, he played his part.

What impressed me was when Eddie Betts just ran around Harbrow last week and slotted through that goal, Harbrow had obviously learnt from that mnistake in one week, cos he never let the TR do the same yesterday, i would have hoped Rocket talked Harbrow up after yesterdays game.

[mighty_west]

A few positives from the game, we pressured them well in the first half, but unfortunatly they had the class to turn their game around, from zoning off and stopping us, then going full out attack, helps when you have a forward that demands the ball, Morris tried hard, but was clearly beaten by Rewoltd.

Harbrow did his job, Minson was good, good in the ruck & took a few good grabs and kicked a few goals, Coons & Murph will be better for the run, both did ok, Hargrave was also good.

But who was playing on Goddard?, he killed us, oppositions are taking out Gilbee with success, why didn't we try the same with Goddard?

Farren bloody Ray, where was this form at the Dogs...huh?

[soupman]

Farren bloody Ray, where was this form at the Dogs...huh?

I think it's a matter of St.Kilda really suiting him. He seems to really be responding well to the role he has been given.

Interestingly I think the best thing for him is that they have key forwards. Farren was never a great kick for us, especially after going for one of his runs. I think having a Riewoldt and Koschitzke up forward really suits him in those instances, as instead of having to pinpoint passes like he had to with us, he can just hit up the hot spot for Riewolst or Koschitzke to run onto.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Gilbee needs to play across half back - the midfield experiment has failed badly. Johnson should never play midfield - he cannot make decisions and/or execute the skill. He turned it over a few times today and looked pretty horrible doing so. Why on earth would he play anywhere but FF/FP?



I tend to think that the coaching logic behind both of these moves is pretty solid.

Move Gilbee around to make him harder to tag, so that if he gets less off it, he can maybe hit the scoreboard or create more goals, which worked early in the season. Note Carazzo did the same job on Hodge Saturday that he did to Gilbee the week before. I guess the challenge for Gilbee is to get his workrate right up and find other ways to contribute if he isn't getting heaps of it.

Johnson has frequently relied on a run in the middle at times to get his touch if he is being starved. He then tries to lose his man up the ground and get on the end of something going forward. There aren't many players that play all the time in the forward 50. Sure we are in agreement that we would like Johnson to have more damage in the forward 50 thta he has had so far, and maybe hes gone up the ground too much, but I dont think its a bad plan.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I tend to think that the coaching logic behind both of these moves is pretty solid.

Move Gilbee around to make him harder to tag, so that if he gets less off it, he can maybe hit the scoreboard or create more goals, which worked early in the season. Note Carazzo did the same job on Hodge Saturday that he did to Gilbee the week before. I guess the challenge for Gilbee is to get his workrate right up and find other ways to contribute if he isn't getting heaps of it.

Johnson has frequently relied on a run in the middle at times to get his touch if he is being starved. He then tries to lose his man up the ground and get on the end of something going forward. There aren't many players that play all the time in the forward 50. Sure we are in agreement that we would like Johnson to have more damage in the forward 50 thta he has had so far, and maybe hes gone up the ground too much, but I dont think its a bad plan.

But it hasn't worked.

Johnson's having no impact on games, in fact he's turning the ball over in the midfield and meanwhile our forwards have been incredibly ordinary. There's no structure at all, I would of thought Johnson should only be played deep. He's got good hands and knows where to position himself/snag one or two - why play him anywhere else? For a few cheap kicks - but what's the point? He's a liability in the midfield and I think you'll find most agree. There's not much logic in Johnno consistently playing up the ground. At times yesterday, he had the ball in defence - why? He's not a good decision maker and has average skills. Teams are laughing when they see Johnno wonder up the field.

Gilbee has been tagged since 05/06 - why suddenly the change? He was playing solid football off half back but the coaching staff have obviously wanted to push him up the ground in hope that his kicking skills become further damaging, setting up and kicking more goals. It hasn't really worked - especially since our backline is struggling to bring the ball out like it used to. Gilbee's kicking has been average at the best of times too - possibly because he's now playing as a midfielder and doesn't have the endurance to then finish off his work? Either way - the experiment hasn't worked. We're still getting smashed around the outsides of the pack in the midfield and we're turning the ball over at half back far, far too much.

Gilbee is pivotal to our back half structure. He generally makes good decisions and his kicking is second to none. He's not a bad defender when he has to be either. Relying on Lake, Hargrave, Addison, Morris & even Harbrow to bring the ball out has been pretty costly these last three weeks. Desperately need some class and some run & carry back there - Gilbee's your man.

[hujsh]

Another thing; why play Lake as a defender if he's going to pick up a third or fourth string player? Cloke/Gwilt have beaten him in the last two weeks. He's caught between trying to play as a loose man to take relatively uncontested marks, and minding/dominating a lesser opponent. The massive problem is he's doing neither. Morris was killed today and Gwilt took the honours. Bad coaching IMO - Lake needs to do what he's supposed to do. Take the gorilla forward that plays deep and play off him where possible. At the moment he's giving us nothing and it's hurting.

13 possesions one goal?

Or because he didn't let Lake have an influence?

[AndrewP6]

I think it's a matter of St.Kilda really suiting him. He seems to really be responding well to the role he has been given.

Interestingly I think the best thing for him is that they have key forwards. Farren was never a great kick for us, especially after going for one of his runs. I think having a Riewoldt and Koschitzke up forward really suits him in those instances, as instead of having to pinpoint passes like he had to with us, he can just hit up the hot spot for Riewolst or Koschitzke to run onto.

Agree on that point... they're making him look good!;)

[AndrewP6]

Farren bloody Ray, where was this form at the Dogs...huh?

My sentiments exactly...:D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

13 possesions one goal?

Or because he didn't let Lake have an influence?

Both.

Lake had no influence as a rebounding defender which they're trying to encourage him to do. He was never in a position to help out other defenders, particularly Morris who was getting thrashed, and at the same time Gwilt still picked up possessions and kicked a goal himself.

Gwilt/Saints would be laughing at that one.