What's going on doggies? [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

LostDoggy

03-05-2009, 06:48 PM

Okay, St.Kilda actually look pretty good- but where is our much vaunted midfield?
Griffen, Cooney virtually no influence?
Forward line structure non-existent. Sounds from the radio that there's never anyone except for Hill in the forward line.
Poor coaching, injuries, what?
Spin on the WA travel stuff, breaks between games?

Playing with no confidence at all......
Can we come back from this sort of stuff, and will we make the eight?

Dry Rot

03-05-2009, 06:49 PM

You can add shit tackling to your list.

LostDoggy

03-05-2009, 06:56 PM

Not impressed. Its times like today that all I can see when we play is old players who are too slow or young kids who look too skinny!

Dry Rot

03-05-2009, 07:12 PM

Scorlibo

03-05-2009, 07:16 PM

We just look lost with our gameplan, not knowing what to do in the appropriate situations and a lot of the time its not to do with the ball carrier, it's to do with the lack of support, players are running, handballing, then stopping when they MUST keep on running to provide further support.

LostDoggy

03-05-2009, 07:34 PM

The Pie Man

03-05-2009, 07:36 PM

Some of us were really concerned about what we saw in the pre-season, and some us questioned whether our dwarf forwardline would work against new zones and in pressure games or against top sides or in the finals.

Maybe we were right.

When a zone is employed against us, it makes Docklands a tight/tough place to play.

Looking at our wins so far..

* We used the space of Subi well and sweated on Freo errors, of which there were plenty
* Toughed it out vs North, found some space late on the flanks of the G
* Played a Richmond team at a nadir with their confidence

Disappointing vs West Coast but @ 3-1 it was acceptable. Last week was pretty bad, and tonight I thought we'd lose by 4 goals without Williams......we lost by 3.10.

Bit of work to do. We may welcome playing on a bigger ground like AAMI next week. I hope the next time we play St Kilda Williams plays on Reiwoldt

LostDoggy

03-05-2009, 07:55 PM

I just can't believe the number of turn overs (usually from errant handballs). I realise that St Kilda has been applying a lot of pressure this season, but I honestly thought that we might be able to stand up to it to some degree (thank god for Reiwoldt's poor kicking!). There's some good signs from our "kids", but the senior players really need to step it up. We look so flat at the moment.

Hoping we play well next round against Adelaide. It's not very often that I get to see my boys play so it would be nice to come away with a win.

Rance Fan

03-05-2009, 07:59 PM

Playing with no Spirit! Wheres the bulldog BITE

Rocket Science

03-05-2009, 08:14 PM

Speaking of turnovers, I understand we conceded a league-high 28 goals as a result of turnovers over the past fortnight. Not sure tonight's proceedings arrested that pattern.

GVGjr

03-05-2009, 08:16 PM

When a zone is employed against us, it makes Docklands a tight/tough place to play.

Looking at our wins so far..

* We used the space of Subi well and sweated on Freo errors, of which there were plenty
* Toughed it out vs North, found some space late on the flanks of the G
* Played a Richmond team at a nadir with their confidence

Disappointing vs West Coast but @ 3-1 it was acceptable. Last week was pretty bad, and tonight I thought we'd lose by 4 goals without Williams......we lost by 3.10.

That's the thing I most noticed today. Both teams were employing zones against each other but the Saints one was much more effective.

Our skill errors are a concern but I'd also have that our forward line is functioning correctly either. Minson did some OK things but it isn't straightening us up at all.

The Pie Man

03-05-2009, 08:26 PM

That's the thing I most noticed today. Both teams were employing zones against each other but the Saints one was much more effective.

Our skill errors are a concern but I'd also have that our forward line is functioning correctly either. Minson did some OK things but it isn't straightening us up at all.

Minson actually did the opposite today, and strangely enough pretty well, roving a rare Ray spill for a goal and his run on Hayes in the last was very amusing.

Can we perhaps put Lake under hypnosis to convince him he can slot a goal from a set shot? Eade's rub of the eyes following it said enough. RS' avatar again came to mind :rolleyes:

BulldogBelle

03-05-2009, 08:32 PM

Minson actually did the opposite today, and strangely enough pretty well, roving a rare Ray spill for a goal and his run on Hayes in the last was very amusing.

Yes, that was good - I enjoyed that passage of play. Hopefully, that will give Minno some added confidence when he sees that passage of play again - he looked very good doing that.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 08:36 PM

GVGjr

03-05-2009, 08:42 PM

Are we believing our own bullshit about being bigger, stronger, better etc and expecting things.

Our wins are only to bottom 2009 6 sides. Big issues. Something has got to turn around. I know we are aiming to peak at a certain time of the year, but you need to win more than you loose for that to happen. I'm not on the panic button, but i'm worried for sure.

When I first read this I wasn't sure but upon some reflection there might be something to it. All season long we were supposed to be flying, best summer etc etc and the new fitness guy performing miracles. Now I don't doubt that they did have a great summer but I wonder if the 3 wins upon the upbeat vibe around the place has bred some complacency.
Even the games we won we haven't been that impressive.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 08:48 PM

When I first read this I wasn't sure but upon some reflection there might be something to it. All season long we were supposed to be flying, best summer etc etc and the new fitness guy performing miracles. Now I don't doubt that they did have a great summer but I wonder if the 3 wins upon the upbeat vibe around the place has bred some complacency.
Even the games we won we haven't been that impressive.

Politics 101, never beleive your own hype. Our wins were far from impressive. If Freo kicks that goal at the start of the last they are within 16 pts and got the run on. North was lucky and Richmond was much to write home about. Yet we were winning. That is a good sign, i guess.

Then under some pressure and zoning from some better teams, we have dropped right off badly. There needs to be some clear leadership and serious questions asked at the selectors table. Obviously a pre-lim we should have won and the best pre-season ever is counting for jack shite at the moment. Again, lets not slit our wrists, but senior players being selected on reputation whose form is down, need to be sent a clear message that reputation is not what gets you selected. We need to review some tactics especially against the zone and blood some more kids. I'd like Reid given a run.

But to the emotional pre-text, i think some (maybe only very few) are beleiving ouw own GS.

Mantis

03-05-2009, 08:49 PM

Yes, that was good - I enjoyed that passage of play. Hopefully, that will give Minno some added confidence when he sees that passage of play again - he looked very good doing that.

Two St.Kilda ran into each other and Will picked up the ball and strolled in for an easy goal... Whoppy doo.

Much prefer Will to have split the pack open and player 'X' picked up the crumbs for an easy goal.

The Pie Man

03-05-2009, 08:53 PM

Two St.Kilda ran into each other and Will picked up the ball and strolled in for an easy goal... Whoppy doo.

Much prefer Will to have split the pack open and player 'X' picked up the crumbs for an easy goal.

Good point - to be fair to Minson, the kick in this instance went right over his head. Was a very lucky goal. He looked alright on the run though

Mantis

03-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Good point - to be fair to Minson, the kick in this instance went right over his head. Was a very lucky goal. He looked alright on the run though

I'm not blaming Will as it was a poorly directed kick, but it's seriously worrying that we are applauding a critical error by the Saints as something we did well.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 09:10 PM

I'm not blaming Will as it was a poorly directed kick, but it's seriously worrying that we are applauding a critical error by the Saints as something we did well.
Surelt it was a fault of Eagleton wasn't it Mantis? :) :)

Mantis

03-05-2009, 09:23 PM

Surelt it was a fault of Eagleton wasn't it Mantis? :) :)

Don't know who you are talking about... :D

And yes it is taking all my god given strength to stay away from the Eagleton thread. And I don't even believe in god so I don't know how the hell I'm controllling myself.

But Mantis is staying strong.....;)

Stefcep

03-05-2009, 09:24 PM

Some observations today:

1. When we kick in after conceding a point we take too long and as a result NEVER have a free player. So we have to kick to a contest, which then puts the defense under pressure. Hence the many goals conceded from turnovers. This has been a problem for oh about 6 years and we don't seem to learn. St Kilda did the opposite.

2. The midfield got smashed. Cooney is not 100% fit, not sure what the other's excuse is.

3. We DO NOT need a tall marking forward IF we deliver the ball quickly and in front of the forwards. That goes back to the midfield being ineffective, or the ball coming in from defense under pressure due to not creating the loose man in defense. Despite St Kilda having Reiwoldt and Kozzie, most of their marks were not contested marks in a pack, but chest marks or marks on the lead 5-10 metres in front of their defender.

4. Our forwards do not work hard enough to keep the ball in our forward line. Not enough pressure on the opposition defenders in our forward line.

5. If Reiwoldt kicked straight this could have been a 10-12 goal drubbing and game over by half time.

If things don't improve a top eight finish is not certain, let alone going one better than last year.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 09:29 PM

Don't know who you are talking about... :D

And yes it is taking all my god given strength to stay away from the Eagleton thread. And I don't even believe in god so I don't know how the hell I'm controllling myself.

But Mantis is staying strong.....;)
C'Mon, you know you want to. :)

...If only he was a little harder.

...If only his kicks penetrated the lines.

Give in to 'Evil Mantis'. "I am evil Mantis... Eagleton was **** today." :)

Mantis

03-05-2009, 09:34 PM

C'Mon, you know you want to. :)

...If only he was a little harder.

...If only his kicks penetrated the lines.

Give in to 'Evil Mantis'. "I am evil Mantis... Eagleton was **** today." :)

I wrote four paragraphs in the thread, but hit the delete button rather than the post button.... I'm such a wuss.

But I did watch him very closely today and I can tell you I wasn't all that impressed... Playing him in the forwardline??... Clearly someone was taking the piss.

GVGjr

03-05-2009, 09:36 PM

Guys, lets move any Eagleton discussion to the Eagleton thread.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 09:40 PM

I wrote four paragraphs in the thread, but hit the delete button rather than the post button.... I'm such a wuss.

But I did watch him very closely today and I can tell you I wasn't all that impressed... Playing him in the forwardline??... Clearly someone was taking the piss.
We know the club love him and he will be selected. So lets go with that assumption for this week.

I agree playing forward is not ideal.

What about playing him loose man in defense ala Gilbee/Hodge (By no way am i suggesting he is as good as them). But if he can run, break lines and hit targets, occasionally get down for a shot and release Gilbe downfield.

What are your thoughts. I can't ever really recall using him like that. Otherwise how would you use him, again knowing that despite much opinion, he will be selected next week?

Happy Days

03-05-2009, 09:41 PM

Cooney's not even close to match fit. He looked much slower than usual and his kicks lacked both penetration and distance, dropping short of the intended target more often than not.

Rocket Science

03-05-2009, 10:16 PM

Are we believing our own bullshit about being bigger, stronger, better etc and expecting things.

Our wins are only to bottom 2009 6 sides. Big issues. Something has got to turn around. I know we are aiming to peak at a certain time of the year, but you need to win more than you loose for that to happen. I'm not on the panic button, but i'm worried for sure.

Why does aiming to peak at a certain time of the year suddenly seem to involve plumbing the depths most other times.

I'm exaggerating, but why can't we be 'steady' before ramping up to our 'peak' instead of average-to-very bloody ordinary. Surely just makes it harder to ascend to this 'peak' we're all told is imminent.

bulldogtragic

03-05-2009, 10:18 PM

Why does aiming to peak at a certain time of the year suddenly seem to involve plumbing the depths most other times.

I'm exaggerating, but why can't we be 'steady' before ramping up to our 'peak' instead of average-to-very bloody ordinary. Surely just makes it harder to ascend to this 'peak' we're all told is imminent.
I agree. It was used a lot last year as an excuse. i don't get it and i think it's mostly BS. But it's an excuse i guess.

LostDoggy

03-05-2009, 10:40 PM

Good to see Everitt out there and Minson showed his strength a few times, he managed to take some strong grabs.

Our decision making is generally poor and our skills have disappeared, even handballs aren't hitting the target. We have probably had enough of the ball to be in a better position the last two games but letting ourselves down with turnovers.

I love the way Brian can nail a chest from 50 metres in the back pocket but cant kick between two posts from 20...:confused:

We have some work to do! Please, please, please beat the fruit loops over here!

Lose still only contains one 'o'

Sedat

03-05-2009, 10:51 PM

2. The midfield got smashed. Cooney is not 100% fit, not sure what the other's excuse is.
Can't agree with this. I thought Griffen was almost the standout midfielder on the ground for both sides, and we matched it in close against one of the best collection of midfielders in great form at the moment - none of Dal Santo, Hayes, Ball or even Montagna had a massive bearing on the result. St Kilda's running half backs on the other hand....

We desperately miss Cooney's line-breaking abilities. Griff cannot do it on his own and Gilbee has not been able to break the shackles of increased defensive work on him this season.

The Underdog

03-05-2009, 10:51 PM

You can add shit tackling to your list.

If I see one more guy get to the contest as a player disposes of the ball then keeps running past him and then looks back as play develops I'm going to head to the library for my fun. Yes I'm looking at you Daniel Cross and Matthew Boyd...

Chicago1

03-05-2009, 10:52 PM

I had planned on booking a flight to Melbourne for the Preliminary Finals and Grand Final since my trip to Melbourne in March was so short and I didn't get to see the Doggies play. I almost booked last week. I'm glad I didn't. I guess I'll wait until the start of the 2010 season to visit again. :(

The Underdog

03-05-2009, 10:54 PM

Can't agree with this. I thought Griffen was almost the standout midfielder on the ground for both sides, and we matched it in close against one of the best collection of midfielders in great form at the moment - none of Dal Santo, Hayes, Ball or even Montagna had a massive bearing on the result. St Kilda's running half backs on the other hand....

We desperately miss Cooney's line-breaking abilities. Griff cannot do it on his own and Gilbee has not been able to break the shackles of increased defensive work on him this season.

I thought Griff's defensive efforts were poor at best. His opponents were too often free running the other way. You might wonder how the Saints half back line had such a bearing on the result. It was because our mids made poor decisions. It's all well to win it but we are getting killed because teams aren't allowing us space to dispose of it as we'd like. We do miss a fit Cooney massively. Personally I thought Griff's efforts were below par.

Sedat

03-05-2009, 11:02 PM

I thought Griff's defensive efforts were poor at best. His opponents were too often free running the other way. You might wonder how the Saints half back line had such a bearing on the result. It was because our mids made poor decisions. It's all well to win it but we are getting killed because teams aren't allowing us space to dispose of it as we'd like. We do miss a fit Cooney massively. Personally I thought Griff's efforts were below par.
He had Clinton Jones for company most of the night and I thought he provided some excellent clearance drive for us against one of the form taggers in the competition.

aker39

04-05-2009, 08:36 AM

He had Clinton Jones for company most of the night and I thought he provided some excellent clearance drive for us against one of the form taggers in the competition.

Yes, but Clinton Jones had 21 possessions of his own and gave the saints some very good run through the middle.

Desipura

04-05-2009, 08:59 AM

LostDoggy

04-05-2009, 09:15 AM

My observations:

1. Every player is having a go. There is no issue with our endeavour and that is pleasing
2. Our two best players, Cooney and Murphy have had no pre-season and are way short on fitness. Hahn's pre-season was also a non-event. We miss the class of the first two badly.
3. The forward line badly needs Walsh who at least knows how to play the position.
4. We entered the forward line enough times but it is the way the ball was coming in that is disappointing. Players bombing in there when under pressure would make life difficult for Locket and Dunstall and we don't have anyone anthing like them.
5. I was pleased to see Everitt back in the side but who decided to give him Schneider when other options in Hargrave and Addison were available
6. I thought Boyd did an excellent job on Delsanto when he went onto him and Picken did a good job on a range of players he was sent to.
7. We certainly missed Williams with Kosi and Riewoldt playing. Who decided to put smalls on Kosi FFS. We all know he's soft but that move was ridiculous
8. We must find a way of reinventing Gilbee. Opposition sides sit on him and his value to the side is diminished. Running him through the middle is an option.
9. Whilst I am a great suporter of Hudson he must learn to follow his opposing ruckman downfield when they have the ball. He gave the WA crook far too much latitude at times

Sedat

04-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Yes, but Clinton Jones had 21 possessions of his own and gave the saints some very good run through the middle.
Jones has been getting mid 20's every week this season and has been keeping his direct opponent not just well under control, but making sure that his opponent has little or no impact on the game whatsoever. Griffen won 7 clearances last night and was easily our most damaging midfielder with his use of the ball. He also went in as hard in the congested situations as any of the much vaunted Saints midfield hard nuts. Boyd and Cross got similar numbers but I'd be hard-pressed to remember any of their possessions to be honest.

ledge

04-05-2009, 09:23 AM

Morris on Riewoldt??

Bulldog4life

04-05-2009, 09:31 AM

I'm not blaming Will as it was a poorly directed kick, but it's seriously worrying that we are applauding a critical error by the Saints as something we did well.

I think that you will find that BulldogBelle was more applauding the Minson run on Hayes which I agree with rather than his actual goal. That is how I read it anyway.

Mantis

04-05-2009, 09:34 AM

I think that you will find that BulldogBelle was more applauding the Minson run on Hayes which I agree with rather than his actual goal. That is how I read it anyway.

Yep, my mistake.

The Underdog

04-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Jones has been getting mid 20's every week this season and has been keeping his direct opponent not just well under control, but making sure that his opponent has little or no impact on the game whatsoever. Griffen won 7 clearances last night and was easily our most damaging midfielder with his use of the ball. He also went in as hard in the congested situations as any of the much vaunted Saints midfield hard nuts. Boyd and Cross got similar numbers but I'd be hard-pressed to remember any of their possessions to be honest.

Yes but if Griff's being tagged by Jones, i don't want to see Jones 40 metres clear downfield of Griffen getting a possession. St.Kilda's mids are much more prepared to run hard both ways than ours are.

LostDoggy

04-05-2009, 10:56 AM

Morris on Riewoldt??

Hasn't that always been the one given match-up, since Glove has one of the best records on St.Nick of any defender in the league?

BulldogBelle

04-05-2009, 01:56 PM

I think that you will find that BulldogBelle was more applauding the Minson run on Hayes which I agree with rather than his actual goal. That is how I read it anyway.

Correct B4L - It was like Minno was doing a 'don't argue' I have the ball and took off and left Hayes in his tracks. Loved it.