Our Depth - lets get it into perspective

[bornadog]

We have a very promising list but we must get this into some perspective as our depth is not really deep as such. We have a bunch of kids coming through and they cannot be relied on to replace experienced players. Yes they need to be brought in, but slowly slowly.

The potential

Boumann- 19 years old
Cordy -18
Grant - 19 played one game
OKeefe- 19
Lynch - 21 played two games
Jones - 18
Reid - 19
Roughhead - 18
Stack - 20
Ward - 19 played 11 games
Wood 19
OShea - 20

Played Sunday

Hill - 20
Harbrow 20
Everitt 20
Higgins 21
Addison 21
Picken 22

Experienced but didn't play Sunday

Callan
Skipper
Welsh
Tiller
Williams
Wight


Of the players experienced, Williams, Callan, Tiller and Welsh should be in our best 22, with Skipper a backup. The rest of our list is made up of inexperienced kids.

[LostDoggy]

We have a very promising list but we must get this into some perspective as our depth is not really deep as such. We have a bunch of kids coming through and they cannot be relied on to replace experienced players. Yes they need to be brought in, but slowly slowly.

The potential

Boumann- 19 years old
Cordy -18
Grant - 19 played one game
OKeefe- 19
Lynch - 21 played two games
Jones - 18
Reid - 19
Roughhead - 18
Stack - 20
Ward - 19 played 11 games
Wood 19
OShea - 20

Played Sunday

Hill - 20
Harbrow 20
Everitt 20
Higgins 21
Addison 21
Picken 22

Experienced but didn't play Sunday

Callan
Skipper
Welsh
WilliamsWight


Of the players experienced, Williams, Callan and Welsh should be in our best 22, with Skipper a backup. The rest of our list is made up of inexperienced kids.

The fact is Williams does not have a lot of experience either.

[bornadog]

How do we get experience into these guys? Do we give each one a go every few weeks and see how they go?

[Bulldog Revolution]

We have to start playing them now. We are not going to magically be carried to a premiership on the back of Aker, Johnson, Welsh, Eagle carrying us. Thats not to say those guys cant play roles but we have to keep including new players in the team recognising that the midfield and forward line needs revamping.

The backline seems to have a few more young guys who have been introduced with Everitt, Williams, Tiller, Addison etc over the last period of time

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We need to find the right balance between picking a side that can compete and win, and developing our young players. At the moment I don't think we've got it right.

I think it's crucial to get games into Everitt and Grant. Ward/O'Keefe/Reid/Wood should be rotated depending on their form/team needs.

We've struggled to develop our list at times and I feel we're lagging a bit again. Everitt and Grant are talents and they're exactly what we need - play them, and look for them. No point having Grant sit up forward if we're going to completely ignore him. I thought Everitt was impressive last night, hopefully he can continue his form.

It's a fine line but in 2 years Johnson, Aker, Eagleton, Welsh and possibly Hudson will be all gone. That's quite a gap and if want to avoid a big drop, then we really need to start playing some of these younger guys where feasible.

Stack is another - he's been on the list a while and whilst he hasn't made much of an impact to date, I'd like to see us include him and play him for 3-4 games. As others have said, he might be a player similar to Hill in that he responds to playing at a higher level.

[LostDoggy]

How do we get experience into these guys? Do we give each one a go every few weeks and see how they go?

No, we give then one game then rip them out the following week, ruining their morale :)

[bornadog]

In 2007 Collingwood blooded nine first gamers, I am not sure how many are still playing but I thought at the time it was a great move by Malthouse, blending the young and old. We must at least blood three more this year, including if possible another tall. Grant needs a few games and I wouldn't be surprised to see young Roughhead come in during the second half of the year.

[Sleeve1970]

Stuff it just play all the kids in the one side and drop a few high paid non performers. May just give them that kick they need to get back to play good footy.

[LostDoggy]

My opinion on this list of players, people may not agree :p


We have a very promising list but we must get this into some perspective as our depth is not really deep as such. We have a bunch of kids coming through and they cannot be relied on to replace experienced players. Yes they need to be brought in, but slowly slowly.

The potential

Boumann- 19 years old
Cordy -18
Grant - 19 played one game
OKeefe- 19
Lynch - 21 played two games
Jones - 18
Reid - 19
Roughhead - 18
Stack - 20
Ward - 19 played 11 games
Wood 19
OShea - 20

Ward, Grant, Cordy, Roughead you would think will become first team regulars. Simply from going on scouting reports, and peoples views.

Jones has had some good wraps on him by scouts, but i haven't been able to see him first hand. If someone has seen him play, what are your thoughts?

O'Keefe & Reid are also players who might play a role in the future, i don't think it's set in stone.

I feel the jury is still out on the rest.

I do hope Boumann can become a good AFL player though.


Played Sunday

Hill - 20
Harbrow 20
Everitt 20
Higgins 21
Addison 21
Picken 22

All should be pushing to become first team regulars, no reason they can't.


Experienced but didn't play Sunday

Callan
Skipper
Welsh
Tiller
Williams
Wight


Of the players experienced, Williams, Callan, Tiller and Welsh should be in our best 22, with Skipper a backup. The rest of our list is made up of inexperienced kids.

Callan, Williams & Tiller all good enough to be in the seniors, all of them have showed enough when playing for the dogs. Especially Tiller who i was a bit worried at first, but his finals series last year was very good.

Welsh, is a seasoned veteran and should easily when fit, be in our best 22.

Skipper & Wight, could be there but need to work damn hard. Skipper has done that this year for Williamstown, and could be pushing his case.

[lemmon]

I dont think we give enough credit to some of the youngsters, look at the way Malthouse goes about it. He puts responsibility on the kids and he gets very good results. I think this is the way to go.

[LostDoggy]

We have to start playing them now. We are not going to magically be carried to a premiership on the back of Aker, Johnson, Welsh, Eagle carrying us. Thats not to say those guys cant play roles but we have to keep including new players in the team recognising that the midfield and forward line needs revamping.

The backline seems to have a few more young guys who have been introduced with Everitt, Williams, Tiller, Addison etc over the last period of time

Well said, I agree! IMO, the issue with playing the young guys is that whilst blooding them, we have to accept losses. Didn't anyone else notice that against St. Kilda, (and will be the same with G'long and Hawthorn) our young guys still look like boys against big strong men? I understand the club have to structure their development carefully, both physically and mentally, but it's hard to watch smaller bodied players struggling to even tackle "men". It seems to me that for a club to win a premiership, all their players have to peak physically and mentally at around the same time. Not sure how this is done, but if other clubs manage it, hopefully so can we :)

[Jasper]

We have a full list of players but we are too focused on having a high number of younger players on our list. I'm not sure if we are forced into this by salary cap restrictions but we would have had far better depth if we had likes of a Zac Dawson or Leigh Brown on the list rather than Paul O'Shea. There must have been a more ready made 20 something player than Malcolm Lynch.
We never really commit the side to a 2 or 3 year crack at winning the flag.

[lemmon]

We have a full list of players but we are too focused on having a high number of younger players on our list. I'm not sure if we are forced into this by salary cap restrictions but we would have had far better depth if we had likes of a Zac Dawson or Leigh Brown on the list rather than Paul O'Shea. There must have been a more ready made 20 something player than Malcolm Lynch.
We never really commit the side to a 2 or 3 year crack at winning the flag.

Ben Hudson, Tim Callan and Scott Welsh? Topping up is never the answer. Sure a Leigh Brown might get a game (questionable) but he isnt the differance between a premiership and being there abouts.

[GVGjr]

Ben Hudson, Tim Callan and Scott Welsh? Topping up is never the answer. Sure a Leigh Brown might get a game (questionable) but he isnt the differance between a premiership and being there abouts.

Not sure I agree. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with a Leigh Brown, our list is still way too thin for suitable replacements to any of the experienced guys. It's all good and well to keep drafting kids but the Hawks did very well by acquiring a couple of out of favor players like Gilham, Guerra and Dew and they are still far from being sent to the scrapheap.
Welsh, Hudson and Akermanis were all a bit close to the end of their careers for my liking when we got them but it doesn't mean that we couldn't get players with some senior experience like Callan.

[1eyedog]

Ben Hudson, Tim Callan and Scott Welsh? Topping up is never the answer. Sure a Leigh Brown might get a game (questionable) but he isnt the differance between a premiership and being there abouts.

Stuart Dew is all I will say

[Mantis]

Not sure I agree. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with a Leigh Brown, our list is still way too thin for suitable replacements to any of the experienced guys. It's all good and well to keep drafting kids but the Hawks did very well by acquiring a couple of out of favor players like Gilham, Guerra and Dew and they are still far from being sent to the scrapheap.

Welsh, Hudson and Akermanis were all a bit close to the end of their careers for my liking when we got them but it doesn't mean that we couldn't get players with some senior experience like Callan.

Having a good think about it, which players discarded over the past 3 seasons from an AFL club do you think we should have targeted?

[lemmon]

Stuart Dew is all I will say

Fair differance in quality between Stuey Dew and some of the key possition players (only players we wouldve gone after IMO) who have recently been delisted and we couldve picked up.

[GVGjr]

Having a good think about it, which players discarded over the past 3 seasons from an AFL club do you think we should have targeted?

Not necessarily players just with AFL experience but also mature aged or guys with some state league footballer experience like Anthony, Dalziel, Gill, J.Westhoff and Sam Jacobs along with guys like Stephen Gilham.

Callan is an example of how we can recruit a needs based player at a reasonable cost. To counteract that though unfortunately Pask, Baird, Hughes and McDougall just didn't measure up.

We also had traded Power, McMahon and Ray for drafts picks so the team has had the depth diminished.

Welsh, Akermanis and Hudson were very much limited tenure acquisitions when we landed them.

[Happy Days]

Not necessarily players just with AFL experience but also mature aged or guys with some state league footballer experience like Anthony, Dalziel, Gill, J.Westhoff and Sam Jacobs along with guys like Stephen Gilham.

Callan is an example of how we can recruit a needs based player at a reasonable cost. To counteract that though unfortunately Pask, Baird, Hughes and McDougall just didn't measure up.

We also had traded Power, McMahon and Ray for drafts picks so the team has had the depth diminished.

Welsh, Akermanis and Hudson were very much limited tenure acquisitions when we landed them.

Surely not. :p

As for AFL list deletions, maybe players like Zac Dawson or Cameron Cloke would have been good pick-ups.

[GVGjr]

Surely not. :p

As for AFL list deletions, maybe players like Zac Dawson or Cameron Cloke would have been good pick-ups.

I wouldn't have minded Dawson because he could cover a few positions. It's all hindsight though.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In terms of developing depth this season it's still a bit surprising that they did not play a kid rather than playing unfit versions of Cooney and Murphy.

[comrade]

In terms of developing depth this season it's still a bit surprising that they did not play a kid rather than playing unfit versions of Cooney and Murphy.

It's an interesting point and again it begs the question - is the MC too conservative? Would the result have been any worse if Grant or O'Keefe played against the Saints?

[Happy Days]

I wouldn't have minded Dawson because he could cover a few positions. It's all hindsight though.

Completely and utterly. I was shocked that the Saints were willing to have a go at him, I'll admit.

[Before I Die]

I wouldn't have minded Dawson because he could cover a few positions. It's all hindsight though.

Dawson is only getting credit because the Saints are winning. Last year at this stage of the season opposition supporters would have seen Wight as a sought after player because he was CHB in an unbeaten team. We don't need anymore defenders or midfielders and we have demonstrated over the last decade that it is almost impossible to recruit a mature, quality power forward. Our recruiting has been very good over the last few years. Our depth is good and will only get better as our younger players mature. Depth is about being able to replace the lesser lights in our best 22 with the next best 4 players and suffering no major loss in talent. No team can replace champions in their best 22 and be as strong. If all WOOF posters were asked to name their best 22 we would end up with about 26 to 28 players named, this is depth. We are not winning because our elite players are down on form, not because our depth is lacking

[Jasper]

We are not winning because our elite players are down on form, not because our depth is lacking

At round 6 this is a true statement but at some time through the season our depth will be tested and I don't think we will measure up.

[Mantis]

At round 6 this is a true statement but at some time through the season our depth will be tested and I don't think we will measure up.

It depends on what expectations you have on these 'depth' players? If you are expecting them to come in and be match winners you are probably right, but if your expectations are low and all you want from them is to come into the team and fill a role, well I think they can do that quite ok.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It's an interesting point and again it begs the question - is the MC too conservative? Would the result have been any worse if Grant or O'Keefe played against the Saints?

The MC has put a lot of faith in the senior players, and I tend to think they haven't been proactive enough about injecting kids into the team