Where is our Brendon Goddard?

[bornadog]

Goddard

189 cm and 91 kg

Picked up 33 possessions and set up countless goals.

Do we have some one that could play this role? Gilbee has done a similar role in the past but he is now being tagged out of the game. Could Everitt play this role, or Tiller?

Or left field Mitch Hahn? Same size as Goddard (except 99kg) and can kick long over the rolling zone.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hahn hasn't got the skill/decision making, endurance, pace or awareness to play the role. Everitt perhaps in time but he's not a physical player yet. Tiller is similar to Hahn.

Gilbee is the guy that SHOULD be playing the role. He's been close to the best half back over the last three or so years, but he's barely played in this position in 09. For some strange reason, Eade wants to play him as a midfielder. I can understand trialing it, or even giving him bursts - but Gilbee is no midfielder.

We've missed Gilbee's play off half back badly - he needs to return there and stay there.

[GVGjr]

Goddard

189 cm and 91 kg

Picked up 33 possessions and set up countless goals.

Do we have some one that could play this role? Gilbee has done a similar role in the past but he is now being tagged out of the game. Could Everitt play this role, or Tiller?

Or left field Mitch Hahn? Same size as Goddard (except 99kg) and can kick long over the rolling zone.

Simply speaking we have no one of that size, with that athletic ability and that presence except for Griffen but Griffen can't leap and mark like Goddard can. At a pinch Goddard can also play KP if required.

Easton Wood isn't tall enough or footy smart enough but he has that sort of athletic power.

[Dogs 24/7]

Simply speaking we have no one of that size, with that athletic ability and that presence except for Griffen but Griffen can't leap and mark like Goddard can. At a pinch Goddard can also play KP if required.

Easton Wood isn't tall enough or footy smart enough but he has that sort of athletic power.

As you would know young Easton Wood just doesn't read the play well enough at the moment to play that sort of zone off your opponent game that Goddard can.

[bulldogtragic]

I have always wanted Hargrave played up the ground for whatever that is worth.

[GVGjr]

I have always wanted Hargrave played up the ground for whatever that is worth.

I'd still like to see him on a wing.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd still like to see him on a wing.
Surely our nearly combined 6,000 WOOF posts should get us some influence at the coaches meeting this week. Move Shaggy up the ground and use him to attack.

[hujsh]

Surely our nearly combined 6,000 WOOF posts should get us some influence at the coaches meeting this week. Move Shaggy up the ground and use him to attack.

God I hope not.

[Mantis]

I would think there would be a thread like this on at least 13 other clubs forum sites. Besides Luke Hodge he is the best loose man in defence in the competition.

These types of players don't grow on trees and were take at draft pick no.1 for a reason.

[bulldogtragic]

God I hope not.
No to the attempt at humour?

Or, no to SHaggy playing an attaching role up the ground?

[Rocco Jones]

Everitt (well, one day hopefully).

Goddard struggled to find a suitable position for ages. I really think we need to ease Anrejs' load. I thought it was a terrible decision to play him as a KP defender last season and my opinion definitely hasn't changed. I would love to see Andrejs given more freedom in a HBF/wing role.

[Jasper]

Everitt (well, one day hopefully).

Goddard struggled to find a suitable position for ages. I really think we need to ease Anrejs' load. I thought it was a terrible decision to play him as a KP defender last season and my opinion definitely hasn't changed. I would love to see Andrejs given more freedom in a HBF/wing role.

I doubt that Everitt will ever be a power player like Goddard. Like you I'd like to see him used on a wing.

[bornadog]

I doubt that Everitt will ever be a power player like Goddard. Like you I'd like to see him used on a wing.

How would Everitt go as a CHF?

[LostDoggy]

How would Everitt go as a CHF?

I like Everitt but he hasn't won me over yet because he at times he seems to lack the required intensity.

[boydogs]

How about Daniel Cross? Some of the qualities listed skill, decision making, endurance, pace and awareness he has, pace and foot skills not his forte but I would prefer him chipping out of defense than trying to pinpoint to leading forwards or shoot for goal. He is a similar size (Goddard 189cm 91kg, Cross 187cm 86kg), good overhead mark and plays the 3rd man up in the ruck role well so could be a loose man in defense

[Mantis]

How about Daniel Cross? Some of the qualities listed skill, decision making, endurance, pace and awareness he has, pace and foot skills not his forte but I would prefer him chipping out of defense than trying to pinpoint to leading forwards or shoot for goal. He is a similar size (Goddard 189cm 91kg, Cross 187cm 86kg), good overhead mark and plays the 3rd man up in the ruck role well so could be a loose man in defense

He played this role in the QF against Hawthorn last year and had 39 possessions in doing so. Luke Hodge played a similiar role for Hawthorn and had 16 possessions.

By looking at those stats you would think Cross had a real influence on the match whereas it looks like Hodge was quiet... How wrong that assumption would be.

[lemmon]

How about Daniel Cross? Some of the qualities listed skill, decision making, endurance, pace and awareness he has, pace and foot skills not his forte but I would prefer him chipping out of defense than trying to pinpoint to leading forwards or shoot for goal. He is a similar size (Goddard 189cm 91kg, Cross 187cm 86kg), good overhead mark and plays the 3rd man up in the ruck role well so could be a loose man in defense
He would be great if he could get his kicking right. One of the gutsiest blokes in the air and can take it above his eyes. Saying that I wouldnt play him there though, he offers more in the guts and he would absolutely butcher it off half back.

[lemmon]

I like the Griffen option best, good skills, rebounds well and moves well. He probably has to work on reading the play a bit better but I think he would benefit massively from the added responsibility.
He's fairly similiar size to Goddard and his dash would be good off half back.

[boydogs]

I don't remember the Hawthorn QF but surely with those numbers he was handy for us even if Hodge was more damaging? Using Griffen IMHO would rob the midfield of its best forward line deliverer, an area where we are already lacking with Cooney recovering from injury and other mids down on skills/efficiency.

It could also be part of the answer to the Boyd-Cross-Picken-Gia-Ward abundance of half-paced inside mids, the other part being finding the best speedster to step up

Just something I think is worth exploring and trying, this season more than past seasons with the issues we are currently facing

[lemmon]

Gogriff you just triggered my memory, what about Ward playing that 'quarterback' (for want of a better word) role. He is courageous in the air, a very good overhead mark and reads the play very well as well as being an excellant kick. He has a bit of height about him, my only concern would be that he is still only relatively light and a big forward crashing into him could do a bit of damage.

[bornadog]

I like the Griffen option best, good skills, rebounds well and moves well. He probably has to work on reading the play a bit better but I think he would benefit massively from the added responsibility.
He's fairly similiar size to Goddard and his dash would be good off half back.

Griffen use to play at half back, but I do like your suggestion to play a Goddard type of role.

He also has the long kicking skills.

[Rocco Jones]

Griffen use to play at half back, but I do like your suggestion to play a Goddard type of role.

He also has the long kicking skills.

We probably need Griff in the middle while Cooney isn't fit, we really lack explosiveness. While Griff wasn't great last night, he still had a game high 7 clearances and his efficiency was a lot better than most.

At the moment he is probably getting the attention normally reserved for Cooney. I don't think he, nor his team mates, are working hard enough to break his tag/close attention.

[LostDoggy]

Gogriff you just triggered my memory, what about Ward playing that 'quarterback' (for want of a better word) role. He is courageous in the air, a very good overhead mark and reads the play very well as well as being an excellant kick. He has a bit of height about him, my only concern would be that he is still only relatively light and a big forward crashing into him could do a bit of damage.

I'll give you a better word - Half Back Flank

You certainly have the player right in Callan Ward

and up the other end I would suggest Sam Reid for The Eagle

(see Rodney it's not that hard I am sure you can work out the rest}

[LostDoggy]

Where is our Brendan Goddard?

We have a better version his name is Adam Cooney.

Cooney Pick #1 2003 - Brownlow Medalist In 5 Years.
Goddard Pick #1 2002 - No Brownlow...only showing his real potential 6-7 years later.

Who would you rather?

[bornadog]

Where is our Brendan Goddard?

We have a better version his name is Adam Cooney.

Cooney Pick #1 2003 - Brownlow Medalist In 5 Years.
Goddard Pick #1 2002 - No Brownlow...only showing his real potential 6-7 years later.

Who would you rather?

The point here is Goddard plays as a loose half back, almost CHB and picked up 33 possessions and created many goals. We had Gilbee doing a similar job in the past, but he isnot built like Goddard. Comparison to Cooney, does not compute.

[wimberga]

I'd rather have Gilbee in the team playing that role then Goddard, its just that Goddard is playing that role well NOW but Gilbee isnt atm.

Am i the only one thinks that Goddard is a bit overrated? He is a bit like Deledio me thinks. Has no real position and gets cheap kicks in the backline for the saints. His best is really good, but the difference between his best and his worst is still very far. He is no superstar

[azabob]

I'd rather have Gilbee in the team playing that role then Goddard, its just that Goddard is playing that role well NOW but Gilbee isnt atm.

Am i the only one thinks that Goddard is a bit overrated? He is a bit like Deledio me thinks. Has no real position and gets cheap kicks in the backline for the saints. His best is really good, but the difference between his best and his worst is still very far. He is no superstar

Wimberga, 2 or so years ago I would've agreed with you but now he is a really really good footballer. Last year and so far this year he has been as consitant as you would want. One could argue he is better performed than both Gilbee and Griffen over the same timeframe. Also dont forget he had a major knee injury in 2006 /07.
I think you are being harsh on him.

[Powerplay]

We got killed by Goddard on the weekend and after the game i was wondering where we can find a player like him. The problem is that Gilbee isn't that strong overhead and Goddard can play anywhere on the ground and be effective.

[craigsahibee]

Wimberga, 2 or so years ago I would've agreed with you but now he is a really really good footballer. Last year and so far this year he has been as consitant as you would want. One could argue he is better performed than both Gilbee and Griffen over the same timeframe. Also dont forget he had a major knee injury in 2006 /07.
I think you are being harsh on him.

Would he be as effective if he was made to be accountable? He is not doing anything new. Paul Roos got away with that role for 10 years.

[LostDoggy]

Gilbee is the bloke that has been touted as our similar player, indeed you could say that when Gilbee was an All-Australian half-back, that someone like Goddard would aspire to be like him. I can't remember the last really influential game Gilbee has had for us. Can't deal with a tag or in-close attention and like several of our older "leaders" goes missing at crucial points in the season.

[azabob]

Would he be as effective if he was made to be accountable? He is not doing anything new. Paul Roos got away with that role for 10 years.

Thats $99 question isn't it? Not sure of your point by saying he's doing nothing new the role he is currently performing he is doing extremely well?
He played forward against W/C and kicked 4 goals in the opening quarter playing as the
3rd forward.
So that would also indicate he is versitle, he can also play midfield.

[LostDoggy]

My apologies if they did (Unfortunately I didnt get to see the game on the weekend) but we should have played Hargrave on him. From a few threads I have read, we didnt apply to much defensive pressure in our forward line, Hargrave having the defensive mindset could have been used to tag Goddards rebound, plus potentially play as third tall?

[Rance Fan]

I think Tom Williams or Everitt could be our Goddard into the future.

[craigsahibee]

Thats $99 question isn't it? Not sure of your point by saying he's doing nothing new the role he is currently performing he is doing extremely well?
He played forward against W/C and kicked 4 goals in the opening quarter playing as the
3rd forward.
So that would also indicate he is versitle, he can also play midfield.

Agree. He is playing good footy and playing his role in the side well.

With regards to the role he is playing or played on the weekend, it wasn't a piece of tactical genius on the part of Ross Lyon we just simply let him do what St Kilda wanted him to do.

The way I see it is footy is still a relatively uncomplicated game. If an opposition player is playing well, to stop him you give an opponent that will stick close to him and limit his possessions and influence on the game. Some may see that statement as naive, but I honestly believe that sometimes the best way to win a game of footy is to let the players be footballers.

I fear for the future of our game as the young players coming through the system now are drilled on tactics and the tempo/possesion style footy and the instincts that have been a feature of the great players of the past are slowly being "bred" out of the game.

[LostDoggy]

Goddard (read soft) is well down on the list of oppositon players I would like to see with us.

Interesting comment from him on the weekend suggesting he and others suggested to Ray that he wasn't hard enough at the ball.

Should have had a good look at himself.

Don't get excited about the deeds of a player allowed to run around unattended for an entire game.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think Tom Williams or Everitt could be our Goddard into the future.

Everitt for sure. He's strong overhead. A beautiful kick. A natural footballer. Fast.
And just the perfect build for that role.
He's really beautifully built for a player.
I'm certain he's going to come through for us.

[bornadog]

Bump

Interesting looking back at this thread and how Goddard has improved even more and is vital to the Saints chances of winning next week end.

Two years on and we (and many other clubs) just don't have a player like him, but have we tried to develop anyone into a role like this?

[immortalmike]

Bump

Interesting looking back at this thread and how Goddard has improved even more and is vital to the Saints chances of winning next week end.

Two years on and we (and many other clubs) just don't have a player like him, but have we tried to develop anyone into a role like this?

I would say Easton Wood has similar attributes (i.e., huge leap, strong in the contest, great running capacity) but lacks the football nous and skill (specifically kicking) but if those can be improved upon you never know...

[FrediKanoute]

Still think that Everitt is the one guy on our list who looks most cappable of developing into a Goddard like player! Shame his cards seem marked.

[Mofra]

Still think that Everitt is the one guy on our list who looks most cappable of developing into a Goddard like player! Shame his cards seem marked.
There is a massive difference in intensity at the contest and body-pressure he puts on his opponent in the backline when compared to Goddard.

[Desipura]

Absolute gun footballer, to suggest anything less is ludicrous. Is a very good mark, has good pace and a physical presence. Showed true leadership on the biggest stage, would love to have him at the kennel.
Closest we have is Cooney although he plays more midfield as opposed to Goddard who switches between half back and forward

[soupman]

Still think that Everitt is the one guy on our list who looks most cappable of developing into a Goddard like player! Shame his cards seem marked.

In terms of physical attributes and lack of a position Everitt is similiar, however Goddard imposes himself on the contest, Everitt doesn't.

Our Goddard would be the player that drags us across the line in big matches. I nominate Ryan Griffen. He has shown that in big matches he can set up goals, kick goals and really impose himself on the contest.

[chef]

In terms of physical attributes and lack of a position Everitt is similiar, however Goddard imposes himself on the contest, Everitt doesn't.

Our Goddard would be the player that drags us across the line in big matches. I nominate Ryan Griffen. He has shown that in big matches he can set up goals, kick goals and really impose himself on the contest.

Goddard has shown he can play practically every position on the field well while Everitt's best spot is still unknown. Comparing these two is like comparing oranges and apples, they are about the same size but this is where it ends.

[stefoid]

Lake goes allright, and Murph when fit and in form too - and they are both swingers. Err, can swing, err, you know what I mean.

[soupman]

Goddard has shown he can play practically every position on the field well while Everitt's best spot is still unknown. Comparing these two is like comparing oranges and apples, they are about the same size but this is where it ends.

I guess I didn't mean it as an ability to play every position, but more so not being particularly weaker at one than another (badly worded).

Basically, Everitt is just as effective up forward as he is down back, off a wing and in the ruck. Goddard is also the same wherever he is, it's just a much better standard.

[Before I Die]

Goddard has shown he can play practically every position on the field well while Everitt's best spot is still unknown. Comparing these two is like comparing oranges and apples, they are about the same size but this is where it ends.

In Goddard's first few seasons one of his major criticisms was that he didn't really have a set position he could call his own. He was labelled as a poor 1st draft pick and there were questions over whether he would ever really make it as a player. I am not implying Everitt can follow the same path, simply that it took Goddard more than 100 games before he found his mojo.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Goddard has moved into the top 5 players in the comp IMO.

He doesn't have a weakness.

[comrade]

In Goddard's first few seasons one of his major criticisms was that he didn't really have a set position he could call his own. He was labelled as a poor 1st draft pick and there were questions over whether he would ever really make it as a player. I am not implying Everitt can follow the same path, simply that it took Goddard more than 100 games before he found his mojo.

Whilst I don't think Everitt will get anywhere near Goddard, it is easy to forget he's played less than 40 AFL games.

His best football is still way ahead of him.

[immortalmike]

Goddard has moved into the top 5 players in the comp IMO.

He doesn't have a weakness.

I disagree that he doesn't have a weakness. He's not great below his knees and he lacks a bit of pace. All in all it doesn't realy effect his performances much though.

[GVGjr]

Whilst I don't think Everitt will get anywhere near Goddard, it is easy to forget he's played less than 40 AFL games.

His best football is still way ahead of him.
That's it in a nutshell. There is a lot more that Everritt can achieve and it's a shame he hasn't been showing the signs the coaches would want to see.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I disagree that he doesn't have a weakness. He's not great below his knees and he lacks a bit of pace. All in all it doesn't realy effect his performances much though.

I wouldn't really call them a weakness. Certainly not his strengths persay, but he's adequate on both accounts. Never seen him fumble too much and I think his pace is actually pretty good, particularly for his size and body shape.

[bornadog]

That's it in a nutshell. There is a lot more that Everritt can achieve and it's a shame he hasn't been showing the signs the coaches would want to see.

and we keep forgetting he is still 21 years old, lots of upside if he is preapred to work hard.

[azabob]

Carlton also are asking the same question. Sucked in you cheating SOBs. ;)

[LostDoggy]

I'm 193cm 91kgs :D never played footy for a club other then school state leagues when I was a kid then the old man made me stick to soccer...:(

maybe i'll play first year for willi and get picked up

/dream

[Bulldog Joe]

Everitt has all the physical attributes to be what Goddard is.

What he seems to lack is the mental ability and he has disappointed every year since a promising debut season.

Plenty of posters question why he doesn't get an extended go, but he has had plenty of chances.

It is within himself to make the effort to be the best he can and that requires a bloke of his size to go at the contest harder and/or create with gut running.

So much talent - so little obvious determination.

[comrade]

Speaking of comparisons, Everitt's cheap shot on Monfries in his last game for the year was straight out of the Goddard play book.

[FrediKanoute]

I agree, Everitt's intensity is lacking in comparison to Goddard. The only comment I'll make to that though is that its tough to maintain a high level of intensity if you are constantly battling to keep your spot in the side. Chicken and Egg scenario.

[azabob]

I agree, Everitt's intensity is lacking in comparison to Goddard. The only comment I'll make to that though is that its tough to maintain a high level of intensity if you are constantly battling to keep your spot in the side. Chicken and Egg scenario.

Don't agree, Addison has intensity game in game out. It just isn't in Everitts make up.

[FrediKanoute]

Don't agree, Addison has intensity game in game out. It just isn't in Everitts make up.

I disagree. I think you can't ignore the fact that being in and out of the team has a detrimental effect on a player. The comparison to Goddard was that his coaches, past and present have generally had a high degree of confidence in him.

Everitt when he debuted had the makings of a quality player, so much so that he was handed the numebr 3 guernsey. that's a pretty big statement by the club to give him a jumper worn and made famous by EJ and Granty. So what has gone wrong?

Yep Everitt had the 2nd year blues.....not unusual. However since then he has stagnated? Why? At first there was the argument that he could only play in defence when many on here were screaming out for him to be given a roaming commission on the wing/forward line. No the MC persisted in trying to make him into a backman.

Then this year when he strings some games together, has a pretty good preseason he is made to force his way backinto the side. Why? What had changed from prior to his injury when he was playing pretty good football and importantly gaining confidence at being a senior player?

You refer to Addison as an example of soeone who brings a high level of commitment to the team week in week out. My response would be that it has taken Addison until the 2010 finals series for that commitment to be consistently applied. Personally I hope that he keeps it up because its the only thing keeping him in the team at the moment and if it drops off he will find himself out of our best 22.

[dog town]

Goddard has moved into the top 5 players in the comp IMO.

He doesn't have a weakness.He certainly has a weakness IMO. This is a big call given the game he has just played on the weekend but he often gets out the way when going in to pick up ground balls. He even did it on the weekend. If faced with a hard contest coming in the opposite direction he quite often refuses to bodyline the ball. That would keep him well out of the top 5 for me. It is tough to criticise him after Saturday though.

[Bulldog Joe]

You refer to Addison as an example of soeone who brings a high level of commitment to the team week in week out. My response would be that it has taken Addison until the 2010 finals series for that commitment to be consistently applied. Personally I hope that he keeps it up because its the only thing keeping him in the team at the moment and if it drops off he will find himself out of our best 22.

Have to disagree on that Fred.

Addison has always brought intensity to the contest.

[EasternWest]

You refer to Addison as an example of soeone who brings a high level of commitment to the team week in week out. My response would be that it has taken Addison until the 2010 finals series for that commitment to be consistently applied. Personally I hope that he keeps it up because its the only thing keeping him in the team at the moment and if it drops off he will find himself out of our best 22.

Wrong. Addison plays with the same intensity every game.

[Greystache]

Have to disagree on that Fred.

Addison has always brought intensity to the contest.

Agreed, his form before hurting his knee in 2008 was excellent. He's been a bit up and down in some areas since then, but his intensity is always there.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I disagree. I think you can't ignore the fact that being in and out of the team has a detrimental effect on a player. The comparison to Goddard was that his coaches, past and present have generally had a high degree of confidence in him.

Everitt when he debuted had the makings of a quality player, so much so that he was handed the numebr 3 guernsey. that's a pretty big statement by the club to give him a jumper worn and made famous by EJ and Granty. So what has gone wrong?

Yep Everitt had the 2nd year blues.....not unusual. However since then he has stagnated? Why? At first there was the argument that he could only play in defence when many on here were screaming out for him to be given a roaming commission on the wing/forward line. No the MC persisted in trying to make him into a backman.

Then this year when he strings some games together, has a pretty good preseason he is made to force his way backinto the side. Why? What had changed from prior to his injury when he was playing pretty good football and importantly gaining confidence at being a senior player?

You refer to Addison as an example of soeone who brings a high level of commitment to the team week in week out. My response would be that it has taken Addison until the 2010 finals series for that commitment to be consistently applied. Personally I hope that he keeps it up because its the only thing keeping him in the team at the moment and if it drops off he will find himself out of our best 22.

This is not a bad post,
Have to disagree on the Dylan Addison front. He's always been intense.

But people seem to forget how long it took Goddard to really start exerting any influence on games.
Go back 3 or 4 years and I think the football community in general were pretty underwhelmed at the time.

He's come on dramatically since then and maybe Everitt will as well.
(Or Walker if we trade for him)

[FrediKanoute]

No disrespect to anyone, but the love affair with Addison post Prelim is getting out of hand. Let me caveat this by first saying that I loved what I saw from him in both finals he played and it was somehitng that I think we as a team have definitely been lacking,

However, it wasn't until I watched those two games that I started to believe that Addison may have a future at the club. Pre those two games intensity aside Addison offerred little aside from a hard body willing to contest. His disposal by both hand and foot was below par. His ability to play on guys his size was limited because he is not that quick.

Going back to the Goddard comparison though, if you compare the support that Addison has received from the match committee with the high bar that has been set for Everitt it just doesn't compute. Addison, got a string of games which Everitt, aside from his debut year just never seemed to have gotten. What I am trying to get across is that had the MC given Everitt the same support as Goddard and Addison received maybe issues with intencity wouldn't be leaking out? Maybe positive reinforcement and a commitment to Everitt to say, go out there and play and make this postion your own.....

Who knows......Everitt will probably leave this trade period. He will probably never become a footballer of the level a number 11 draft pick promised.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm in complete agreeance with you here Fredi.
I wish Everitt had been given the same opportunities as J. Grant for example and completely disagree with Eagleton and Hahn being given games ahead of him.

My post is generally in support of Everitt and saying he COULD be a Goddard type if we backed in him.
That's my point re Goddard. Goddard wasn't an overnight sensation. So it would be stupid for anyone to write Everitt off already.

But in regards Addison.

Addison has played alot of underwhelming and average games so it's not really a love affair,
but if there's a suggestion he's never been an intense competitor well that's just wrong.

Unskilled? maybe. Uncreative? Sure. But he has always been an intense competitor and that's why he's still on the list. And I'm glad he still is.

[FrediKanoute]

Unskilled? maybe. Uncreative? Sure. But he has always been an intense competitor and that's why he's still on the list. And I'm glad he still is.

On this we agree!!!

[BulldogBelle]

I'd still like to see him on a wing.

I think that as well. I though I was on my Pat Malone with this one!!!!!

[EasternWest]

No disrespect to anyone, but the love affair with Addison post Prelim is getting out of hand. Let me caveat this by first saying that I loved what I saw from him in both finals he played and it was somehitng that I think we as a team have definitely been lacking,


No worries with what you say here Fredi. I think most people were defending the fact that despite form/ability, DFA has always bought the same attack and courage to every game.