Nathan Thompson -In Hindsight, should we have given him a one year contract [Archive]

bornadog

06-05-2009, 10:52 PM

We are missing a key tall forward, we know that.

We know Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Roughhead are all a few years away from being true AFL players but they have enormous potential.

We know that last year we hit a prelim and the aim this year was for a GF appearance.

In Hindsight, and knowing Nathan Thompson was the only one available in the draft, should we have given him a one year contract and solved our KPP forward problem for 2009.

PS: Listening to him on SEN on Monday, he claims the dogs didn't get a key forward in the draft due to the salary cap?

AndrewP6

06-05-2009, 10:54 PM

The Pie Man

06-05-2009, 10:55 PM

The Pie Man

06-05-2009, 10:56 PM

Maybe, but with all the issues he was/is dealing with, it may have backfired.

Referring to his depression? He seems to have that well under control if his media work is anything to go by. Still a beyondblue ambassador too, which I think is top shelf

AndrewP6

06-05-2009, 11:08 PM

Referring to his depression? He seems to have that well under control if his media work is anything to go by. Still a beyondblue ambassador too, which I think is top shelf

Don't want to get too deep here (it's footy, after all!) but depression is one illness where the person may seem outwardly very well, but suffering greatly. We don't know what his life is like away from the spotlight. Having said that, I hope he's going really well. Acting as ambassador for BB is great, I agree...

AndrewP6

06-05-2009, 11:09 PM

The Underdog

06-05-2009, 11:52 PM

I hear that, but I don't reckon he was the answer.

I'll get laughed at silly for this - i we were going down this path after Barry said no, I'd seriously have rathered gone for .......Courtney Johns.

Go on, laugh it up

Johns did his ACL late last year. Which meant he was a rubbish footballer with a year of rehab ahead of him rather than just a rubbish footballer. Seriously he's no better than Patrick Wiggins, he just had better press early on.

I'd still lean against Thompson even in hindsight. I'm not sure he could have stayed fit for a whole season and would have most likely been a defensive liability in the forward 50. He may have filled a spot in the team this year while we waited for a tall forward to mature but he also would have taken the spot on the list of another player with a future longer than one year.

G-Mo77

07-05-2009, 05:22 AM

The problem with a band aid is that it is only short term. It may have benifitted short term, I still have my doubts it would have helped, but over all long term it may hurt us even more. I would rather develop our own. For years we have invested in retread forwards and haven't had a decent one for a long time. I think we need to throw Grant in the deep end and see if he can swim. That being said we have got to start running a game plan which includes a Tall Forward. I don't know why the bothered bring Grant in against Carlton because his teammates didn't even look for him. Why have a tall forward when they are not going to use him?

The Pie Man

07-05-2009, 08:08 AM

Johns did his ACL late last year. Which meant he was a rubbish footballer with a year of rehab ahead of him rather than just a rubbish footballer. Seriously he's no better than Patrick Wiggins, he just had better press early on.

I'd still lean against Thompson even in hindsight. I'm not sure he could have stayed fit for a whole season and would have most likely been a defensive liability in the forward 50. He may have filled a spot in the team this year while we waited for a tall forward to mature but he also would have taken the spot on the list of another player with a future longer than one year.

Johns probably would have been close to recovered by round 1 this year, massive unit and still under 25 - but there's a very strong argument he was rubbish as you say. I saw enough to think he could be something, massive roost of the footy.

Sedat

07-05-2009, 09:12 AM

I'll get laughed at silly for this - i we were going down this path after Barry said no, I'd seriously have rathered gone for .......Courtney Johns.

Go on, laugh it up
I won't laugh it up because my suggestion was to go after Jay Schulz.

Mofra

07-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Don't want to get too deep here (it's footy, after all!) but depression is one illness where the person may seem outwardly very well, but suffering greatly. We don't know what his life is like away from the spotlight. Having said that, I hope he's going really well. Acting as ambassador for BB is great, I agree...
Scott West won 7 B&Fs, and there would be plenty more we don't know about. Depression is manageable.

Mofra

07-05-2009, 10:05 AM

I don't know why the bothered bring Grant in against Carlton because his teammates didn't even look for him. Why have a tall forward when they are not going to use him?
Maybe if Grant didn't give up after one lead, he would have been used. Look at even the decent leading KPPs, and they will often lead 2-3 times in each opportunity. Grant simply isn't fit enough at this stage. He wouldn't even run past the ball carrier when giving it off, which is a must against a zone defence.

The Pie Man

07-05-2009, 11:32 AM

I won't laugh it up because my suggestion was to go after Jay Schulz.

I would've taken him too!

Reasoning, both young (compared to Barry Hall at least) with some upside.

I was gagging for Barry Hall though, he would have been terrific.

Sedat

07-05-2009, 12:04 PM

It can be very easy to label an underperforming tall as simply crap, but there's little doubt that guys like Schulz and Johns (you could throw McDougall in there as well) have more natural talent in their DNA than better performed forwards (like a Lonergan for example), so they would fall into the underperforming category. But if it was purely about natural talent, guys like Allen Jakovich and Rod Owen would have been in the best 50 players of all time.

LostDoggy

07-05-2009, 03:15 PM

What about Pods.

It's now time - surely?

bornadog

07-05-2009, 05:36 PM

What about Pods.

It's now time - surely?

Not good enough for AFL level.

LostDoggy

07-05-2009, 05:46 PM

I still liked the thought of Tim Boyle.

bulldogtragic

07-05-2009, 05:51 PM

I still liked the thought of Tim Boyle.
He's done his ACL so he's free next year if you still want him.

I thought the saviour Adrian Campbell was coming over here?

LostDoggy

07-05-2009, 05:56 PM

He's done his ACL so he's free next year if you still want him.

I thought the saviour Adrian Campbell was coming over here?

Didn't know he had done his ACL, cross him off the list then :D

You talking about Adam Campbell?

Would've been worth a punt i reckon.

Happy Days

07-05-2009, 05:59 PM

I still liked the thought of Tim Boyle.

Didn't know he had done his ACL, cross him off the list then :D

You talking about Adam Campbell?

Would've been worth a punt i reckon.

I think you're looking at these guys with rose-coloured glasses. Boyle is an out-and-out spud, and I reckon a snail could beat Capmbell in a foot race.

Cheap as chips trading is not the way to find a key forward. We need to put the time into Grant, rather than put garbage players who he won't learn anything from in his way.

LostDoggy

07-05-2009, 06:07 PM

I agree Happy_Days.

But when the club was hell bent on getting someone, these names came up. And apart from Barry Hall, i thought Boyle was probably the best to choose from. Campbell was probably a really long shot, but when the club signs players like McDougall, it probably wasn't that much of a long shot.

But i do agree with you, make sense :confused: :)

bulldogtragic

07-05-2009, 06:37 PM

I still say we needed to persist with The Ugg.

Have would have made it. Imagine Johno and Aker and the feet of Bartlett. A coaches dream.

mighty_west

07-05-2009, 06:39 PM

I thought the saviour Adrian Campbell was coming over here?

Badly broke his leg in the early 90's, pity, he looked the goods as well.

:p

mighty_west

07-05-2009, 06:42 PM

Didn't know he had done his ACL, cross him off the list then :D

You talking about Adam Campbell?

Would've been worth a punt i reckon.

The fact that Adam Campbell hasn't been given too many chances with Freo, who have struggled with their forwards over the past few seasons says something, even with Tarrant down back he hasn't been given a shot, and he's what, 24/25?

With Nathan Thompson, didn't he say he was finished, i'm pretty sure Rocket had a chat with him, he wasn't interested, had already retired.....Once you have retired in your mind, you are finished!!!!

bornadog

07-05-2009, 06:44 PM

Cheap as chips trading is not the way to find a key forward. We need to put the time into Grant, rather than put garbage players who he won't learn anything from in his way.

Agree, We have some great talls coming through and they are all either 19 or younger. Once they learn their trade, I am sure at least one or two will make the grade as a KPP.

I think Grant will be a regular in the second half of the season, and I would love to see a Boumann get a couple of games somewhere along the line.

Dazza

07-05-2009, 07:42 PM

Even though Grant barely got a touch in the Carlton game I was very impressed with his speed. Ran down a few smaller players quite easily and laid heavy tackles. I'd like to see Hahn out until he gains form and just have Grant playing as a long target that provides forward line pressure by chasing hard. Much the same game as Hahns, except Grant is much faster

Sockeye Salmon

07-05-2009, 10:02 PM

The fact that Adam Campbell hasn't been given too many chances with Freo, who have struggled with their forwards over the past few seasons says something, even with Tarrant down back he hasn't been given a shot, and he's what, 24/25?

Who advises these guys?

Campbell could have come to us and been the no. 1 forward, instead he chose to sit in the WAFL until his contract expires and he goes back to North Ballarat.

Also, why would Freo insist on a 1st round pick for a guy they'll never use anyway?

Mofra

08-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Also, why would Freo insist on a 1st round pick for a guy they'll never use anyway?
Sockeye, you really want us to examine the horror of Freo's trading?

The Underdog

08-05-2009, 10:32 AM

Johns probably would have been close to recovered by round 1 this year, massive unit and still under 25 - but there's a very strong argument he was rubbish as you say. I saw enough to think he could be something, massive roost of the footy.

I don't think he would have been close to ready by round one. 7 months for a guy like that to rehab and get fit, I doubt he'd have got much past stepping onto a VFL ground this year. He may be a massive unit with a massive roost but he's never shown much at AFL level and to add a knee reco onto his massive injury history would I think have made him too much of a risk.

Remi Moses

08-05-2009, 07:03 PM

Ummm no,also no to Johns,Campbell,PODS:eek:getting a serious case of ground hog day. No short term messures develop our own.

Sleeve1970

09-05-2009, 05:15 PM

azabob

09-05-2009, 05:58 PM

Nathan Thompson should have been a pick up for a one year deal. He could have also been used to teach the younger talent the art of the forward line. Think about this. Welsh, Thompson and Minson in the forward line, 3 guys who can take a march or create the crumbs... big opportunity lost there.

You can't have it both ways, on one thread (J Grant a realistic outlook) you say they need to stop patching the problems with the forward line and start putting in real talent, so Im not sure how having Thompson for one year would help that.
Thinking about what you said Minson can't take a mark when forward, Welsh is not a pack mark he is a lead and mark forward and Thompson struggled to get games with North last year. Yes Thompson has size about him but I dont think of him as a pack mark.

Remi Moses

09-05-2009, 11:10 PM

Dogs 24/7

10-05-2009, 10:05 AM

Who advises these guys?

Campbell could have come to us and been the no. 1 forward, instead he chose to sit in the WAFL until his contract expires and he goes back to North Ballarat.

It's perplexing to say the least. Campbell might never have held his spot with us but with Welsh injured he would have been given plenty of chances. These player managers sometime don't think about the longer term.

Also, why would Freo insist on a 1st round pick for a guy they'll never use anyway?

Strange but one reason might be like how Port allowed Stevens to do to the pre season draft without compensation. Ask for a ridiculously high price knowing that we wouldn't pay sounds like they just didn't want to deal with us.

There must be a reason why potentially good tall forward players don't try and get themselves to the Dogs. Hansen could have been the key forward in a premiership tilt rather than slugging it out for another couple of seasons until the Eagles regroup.

bornadog

10-05-2009, 11:29 AM

It's perplexing to say the least. Campbell might never have held his spot with us but with Welsh injured he would have been given plenty of chances. These player managers sometime don't think about the longer term.

Strange but one reason might be like how Port allowed Stevens to do to the pre season draft without compensation. Ask for a ridiculously high price knowing that we wouldn't pay sounds like they just didn't want to deal with us.

There must be a reason why potentially good tall forward players don't try and get themselves to the Dogs. Hansen could have been the key forward in a premiership tilt rather than slugging it out for another couple of seasons until the Eagles regroup.

And to think we could have chosen Stevens instead we went for Rawlings because we were looking for a KPP forward.

LostDoggy

11-05-2009, 05:47 PM

I still liked the thought of Tim Boyle.

I thought the same thing Thompson was way past his best and Boyle had alot of promise

LostDoggy

12-05-2009, 05:45 PM

In Hindsight, and knowing Nathan Thompson was the only one available in the draft, should we have given him a one year contract and solved our KPP forward problem for 2009.

Yes.

LostDoggy

12-05-2009, 05:45 PM

In Hindsight, and knowing Nathan Thompson was the only one available in the draft, should we have given him a one year contract and solved our KPP forward problem for 2009.

Oh, I meant NO.

What, are we nuts??? Stopgaps of this quality we can do without (salary cap -- would we have missed out on Picken?). Jon Brown, Pav and maybe Cloke (Travis) are the only ones worth pursuing; other than that, let's just be patient with Grant, Roughy and Cordy.

mighty_west

12-05-2009, 06:51 PM

Who advises these guys?

Campbell could have come to us and been the no. 1 forward, instead he chose to sit in the WAFL until his contract expires and he goes back to North Ballarat.

Also, why would Freo insist on a 1st round pick for a guy they'll never use anyway?

Campbell could have also come to us, cost us Ayce Cordy [if the first round demand is correct], and could have spent most of his time at Willy as well, there would be no way known we'd pay that for an untried player who is what, 24/25, just because he is big, doesn't automatically mean he'd be top dog in the forward line, Skipper is also tall.

Whilst i haven't seen the kid play myself, from most reports [from WAFL watchers], he's a big lump of a lad that throws his weight around, and nothing more, we have Big Will who can do that PLUS be used in the ruck.

Hell, even our second round pick would have cost us Roughead, i know who i'd much rather have developing on our list!

Rocket is a wise man.

Sockeye Salmon

13-05-2009, 08:29 AM

Campbell could have also come to us, cost us Ayce Cordy [if the first round demand is correct], and could have spent most of his time at Willy as well, there would be no way known we'd pay that for an untried player who is what, 24/25, just because he is big, doesn't automatically mean he'd be top dog in the forward line, Skipper is also tall.

Whilst i haven't seen the kid play myself, from most reports [from WAFL watchers], he's a big lump of a lad that throws his weight around, and nothing more, we have Big Will who can do that PLUS be used in the ruck.

Hell, even our second round pick would have cost us Roughead, i know who i'd much rather have developing on our list!

Rocket is a wise man.

That's not what I meant.

By no means was I saying that we should have paid a first round pick for Campbell, that's ludicrous.

I was looking at it from another direction entirely.

If you were Campbell, you'd take a look at how your career was travelling at the end of last year. You're 23, have played less than 10 games and you are out of contract. You can only play as a key forward and your club already has Pavlich, McPharlane and (at that stage) Tarrant was playing forward as well.

There's a club in your home state with no key forwards who has just made the prelim anyway. Perhaps they're 1 player away from a flag.

I'd be onto my manager in a flash saying I want out. The Dogs would have rightfully offered pick 64 or something like that.

If Freo asked for a first rounder, the Dogs say no and pick up Campbell in the PSD. If Freo are more reasonable they might get a pick upgrade for a player they'll never use anyway.

Instead Campbell re-signs and plays out his career in the WAFL until he fades in obscurity.

Sedat

13-05-2009, 09:34 AM

At the end of 2009, perhaps we might be asking the same question but change the name to Barry Hall. It's no secret that he was high on our shopping list in last year's trade week but could not be secured easily as he was still under contract at the Swans. He cut quite a folorn figure on Saturday making multiple leads, breaking free of Scarlett on a number of occasions but constantly being ignored by teammates.

strebla

13-05-2009, 09:52 AM

Why don't we add Richo to the list we may as well I think we have tried the stopgap measures too many times put time into our kids!

Sedat

13-05-2009, 10:03 AM

1) Hall is 3 years younger than Richo in actual years - probably more like 5 years younger in physical terms
2) Hall has suffered far less serious injuries over the course of his career than Richo - Richo has a current injury that could very well spell the end of his career
3) Hall has played the majority of his career close to goal and has better goal sense than Richo - he is also a better and more reliable kick for goal
4) Richo has played a higher tempo, far more taxing style of football his whole career
5) Richo is primarily a lead-up forward, of which we already have quality options both currently in the team and in development at Willy
6) Hall is both strong on the lead and can also take a contested grab, making him a better fit for our specific needs
7) We tried to get Hall 6 months ago (and Hall's interest to join us was rumoured to have been reciprocated) so there is already a mutual interest there

Do you want me to go on....

The Pie Man

13-05-2009, 10:11 AM

You'd think Richo will retire at seasons end and we'll have a Robert Harvey style guard of honour for him from Round 20 onwards, but I have to admit I've thought of Richo in the past week or so when I read Gerard Healy's article on Tigers that will likely be cut when a new coach comes on board.

If Richo wanted to go on......

I even started to think N Brown could be return to sender.......:eek:

The Coon Dog

13-05-2009, 10:17 AM

I even started to think N Brown could be return to sender.......:eek:

They're horrible those nightmares TPM, thankfully when you wake up you realise it was just a bloody bad dream.

LostDoggy

13-05-2009, 10:54 AM

I'd like to think we would chase Barry Hall again, as mentioned in a few threads previously, it's easier to teach kids coming through how to be a power forward when you have a power forward.

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 10:55 AM

They're horrible those nightmares TPM, thankfully when you wake up you realise it was just a bloody bad dream.

I must admit CD, i also had that nightmare.

:eek:

Could you imagine the irony, Brown back at Dogs, Dogs win Premiership, Brown plays in finals afterall......now my mind is going in over drive.............................

AND HE TOOK A MASSIVE PAYCUT :D

bornadog

13-05-2009, 11:09 AM

I must admit CD, i also had that nightmare.

:eek:

Could you imagine the irony, Brown back at Dogs, Dogs win Premiership, Brown plays in finals afterall......now my mind is going in over drive.............................

AND HE TOOK A MASSIVE PAYCUT :D

If he offered to pay us to play I wouldn't take him:D

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 11:11 AM

That's not what I meant.

By no means was I saying that we should have paid a first round pick for Campbell, that's ludicrous.

I was looking at it from another direction entirely.

If you were Campbell, you'd take a look at how your career was travelling at the end of last year. You're 23, have played less than 10 games and you are out of contract. You can only play as a key forward and your club already has Pavlich, McPharlane and (at that stage) Tarrant was playing forward as well.

There's a club in your home state with no key forwards who has just made the prelim anyway. Perhaps they're 1 player away from a flag.

I'd be onto my manager in a flash saying I want out. The Dogs would have rightfully offered pick 64 or something like that.

If Freo asked for a first rounder, the Dogs say no and pick up Campbell in the PSD. If Freo are more reasonable they might get a pick upgrade for a player they'll never use anyway.

Instead Campbell re-signs and plays out his career in the WAFL until he fades in obscurity.

Yeah fair enough Sockeye.

I wonder what really went on, did Rocket really push to try & get Campbell, or was he too focused on Boyle, then Ash Hansen and then Barry Hall?

I guess like someone else mentioned, with Freo's past record of being rammed in trades they are now always going to play hardball, especially with Harveys experiences with being with Essendon for all those years and knowing how silly they were at times with regards to trades, the Scott West one was a ripper.

Perhaps clubs were also stand off'ish with trading a tall forward to us, knowing we'd be a REAL threat for a Premiership.

bornadog

13-05-2009, 11:13 AM

I'd like to think we would chase Barry Hall again, as mentioned in a few threads previously, it's easier to teach kids coming through how to be a power forward when you have a power forward.

Too late, by next year we will have to have some regular game time for the Grants, Boumanns the Cordy;s and Roughheads of the world. Our opportunity for a one year contract was this year, but there just wasn't anyone available. Barry Hall will be 33 next year.

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 11:13 AM

If he offered to pay us to play I wouldn't take him:D

Without actually going into "should we take Brown back" and getting all silly about it, is he really finished? Or is he a scapegoat for being an older player in a side that seriously needs to cut senior players?

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 11:17 AM

I'd like to think we would chase Barry Hall again, as mentioned in a few threads previously, it's easier to teach kids coming through how to be a power forward when you have a power forward.

I must admit, i was one that didn;t want Barry Hall, great player and all, but, and even though he hasn't had too many serious injuries in his time, the type of bash & crash power forward he is, once you'd get to a certain age, players like that just fall off dramatically, plus i couldn't imagine Sydney just giving up a lower draft pick for him.

Sedat

13-05-2009, 11:21 AM

Too late, by next year we will have to have some regular game time for the Grants, Boumanns the Cordy;s and Roughheads of the world. Our opportunity for a one year contract was this year, but there just wasn't anyone available. Barry Hall will be 33 next year.
Physically, Hall is a 'young' 33 and is in great nick, but the key with him is his mental hunger to play the game. Is he tired and jaded with AFL itself (hence the potential future professional boxing career) or just tired and jaded with the Swans?

I think there might be one more year left in the bank before Grant/Cordy/Roughead/Jones are genuinely influencing games at AFL level - there's little doubt that in 2010, Hall will still be a far more influential key forward at AFL level than any of our guys coming through. I wouldn't be against exploring the Hall situation again in more detail at season's end. No promises but certainly worth a discussion.

AndrewP6

13-05-2009, 12:00 PM

Without actually going into "should we take Brown back" and getting all silly about it, is he really finished? Or is he a scapegoat for being an older player in a side that seriously needs to cut senior players?

Finished, IMHO

AndrewP6

13-05-2009, 12:01 PM

If he offered to pay us to play I wouldn't take him:D

I'll go one further and pay him NOT to come back.

LostDoggy

13-05-2009, 12:26 PM

I'll go one further and pay him NOT to come back.

The horrible thing is, he'd take it.

Desipura

13-05-2009, 12:27 PM

I would have been happy to take Hall for this year (depending on the cost). Would have been very handy in last years finals!
History has shown us you cannot go into another finals series with the same group of players and achieve the ultimate. When/if we get to play finals, we will need some alterations to overcome the hurdle we could not last year.
Some will say but injuries to players will most probably occur and the exact 22 that played last year will most likely not play this year anyway.
This is true however we will have to find someone who will change our structure that currently relies heavily on quality disposal to our forwards. In finals, you do not always have this luxury hence why the need of a key forward is essential. Do we have that player on our list right now? You would have to say probably not. In 1-3 years time we may. Would we take a risk and make a selection out of left field if/when the time comes, we might have to.

Bulldog Revolution

13-05-2009, 12:38 PM

AndrewP6

13-05-2009, 12:43 PM

The horrible thing is, he'd take it.

Yep, you're probably right...

Desipura

13-05-2009, 12:44 PM

This idea of propping up our forward line unfortunately hasn't ever worked.

We've taken a few worthwhile punts for low prices i.e McDougall, Davidson etc, but we've also spent a bit at times Bandy, Rawlings etc.

It's time to stop thinking we are close to winning a flag and think we can top up. What we need is more good young players in the team.
So you are saying we are not close?
Agree in part that we need more good young players however it is a balancing act. You cannot just win a grand final with all young players as they develop at different stages.
Look what Dew was able to do with Hawthorn, he addressed a shortfall for them. Whilst he is younger than Hall, his body wont allow him to play much longer.
By the time the likes of Roughy, Cordy (now 86kg, started at 80kg), Jones are ready to dominate games, Johnno, Aker & Welsh will have retired. Lake, Gilbee will be on the wrong side of 20. We have enough talls on our list, whether they are good enough, time will tell.

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 02:09 PM

So you are saying we are not close?
Agree in part that we need more good young players however it is a balancing act. You cannot just win a grand final with all young players as they develop at different stages.
Look what Dew was able to do with Hawthorn, he addressed a shortfall for them. Whilst he is younger than Hall, his body wont allow him to play much longer.
By the time the likes of Roughy, Cordy (now 86kg, started at 80kg), Jones are ready to dominate games, Johnno, Aker & Welsh will have retired. Lake, Gilbee will be on the wrong side of 20. We have enough talls on our list, whether they are good enough, time will tell.

The difference between Srewie Dew and a key forward from another club was one, Dew wasn't playing so he cost Hawthorn bugger all, was worth a punt that could have gone either way, plus he is was a proven and very good AFL player.

Had we have been able to snag Barry Hall, from all reports he most likely would have cost us our first round pick [Sydney played hard ball] meaning 2 years of Hall [at best] or Ayce Cordy for 15 years.

It's a tough one no doubt, and would we have been prepared to give away Ayce or another one of our gun younger players? Like Geelong did with gaining Ottens for Moloney [who was rated very high at the time].

Desipura

13-05-2009, 02:15 PM

The difference between Srewie Dew and a key forward from another club was one, Dew wasn't playing so he cost Hawthorn bugger all, was worth a punt that could have gone either way, plus he is was a proven and very good AFL player.

Had we have been able to snag Barry Hall, from all reports he most likely would have cost us our first round pick [Sydney played hard ball] meaning 2 years of Hall [at best] or Ayce Cordy for 15 years.

It's a tough one no doubt, and would we have been prepared to give away Ayce or another one of our gun younger players? Like Geelong did with gaining Ottens for Moloney [who was rated very high at the time].

Hence why I stated in my opening post "I would have been happy to take Hall for this year (depending on the cost)". I would have been totally against obtaining Hall for a 1st rounder and the club had openly said it would not trade its 1st pick.
If it was Pavlich for a first rounder, I bet we would have taken it. Freo would want more than that however.
Moloney was highly rated however so was Ottens who failed to deliver consistently at Richmond, ring a bell? Geelong got a bargain!

Sedat

13-05-2009, 02:21 PM

Hall comes out of contract this year so the bargaining power Sydney had last year has now significantly diminished.

Dew cost Hawthorn pick 44 from memory, and he was a far bigger (in every sense of the word) long-shot than someone like Hall. But credit to the Hawks for rolling the dice and getting double 6's. Being out of contract and rising 33, Sydney might just allow Hall to go for a late pick to ease future salary cap pressure and re-load the list. Geelong did with King, essentially giving him away for nothing to ease the salary cap squeeze - King's talent would have commanded a 2nd round pick at the very least.

I'm not entirely convinced that any one of Grant/Cordy/Roughead/Jones are going to take the AFL by storm in 2010 - as I said, certainly worth a chat at the end of the season.

mighty_west

13-05-2009, 02:32 PM

Hence why I stated in my opening post "I would have been happy to take Hall for this year (depending on the cost)". I would have been totally against obtaining Hall for a 1st rounder and the club had openly said it would not trade its 1st pick.
If it was Pavlich for a first rounder, I bet we would have taken it. Freo would want more than that however.
Moloney was highly rated however so was Ottens who failed to deliver consistently at Richmond, ring a bell? Geelong got a bargain!

Well alot of people keep banging on about we should have got Barry Hall or i wish we got him etc, but once Rocket declared that our first rounder was off the table, we were never going to get a top line tall forward.

Pav for our first rounder, sure, but would Pav want to goto a Vic club? But like you said, he would have most likely cost us a first rounder and top kid, Everitt, Higgins, Ward etc.

Desipura

13-05-2009, 03:37 PM

anyway my point being, I cannot see us going further than last year if we go in with the same structure.

Bulldog Revolution

13-05-2009, 04:15 PM

So you are saying we are not close?
Agree in part that we need more good young players however it is a balancing act. You cannot just win a grand final with all young players as they develop at different stages.
Look what Dew was able to do with Hawthorn, he addressed a shortfall for them. Whilst he is younger than Hall, his body wont allow him to play much longer.
By the time the likes of Roughy, Cordy (now 86kg, started at 80kg), Jones are ready to dominate games, Johnno, Aker & Welsh will have retired. Lake, Gilbee will be on the wrong side of 20. We have enough talls on our list, whether they are good enough, time will tell.

I'm not fully convinced we are as close as I'd like us to be

I agree with your sentiments re: having a team full of young players not being the solution and the value in selectively taking older players.

However it has been proven to be much harder to find castoffs from other teams who can play key positions.

I think we've got a better balanced list than we have had for a while, but instead of drafting a fringe AFL tall from another club I'd be more inclined to draft a young tall or speedy midfielder and promote the talls we already have on the list.

Desipura

13-05-2009, 04:34 PM

I'm not fully convinced we are as close as I'd like us to be

I agree with your sentiments re: having a team full of young players not being the solution and the value in selectively taking older players.

However it has been proven to be much harder to find castoffs from other teams who can play key positions.

I think we've got a better balanced list than we have had for a while, but instead of drafting a fringe AFL tall from another club I'd be more inclined to draft a young tall or speedy midfielder and promote the talls we already have on the list.
Agree with your comments however Hall is not a fringe player

bulldogtragic

13-05-2009, 04:45 PM

I am quitely confident of 4 talls on our list not playing in the AFL.

The only reason i would have said yes to picking up Thompson was so he didn't mame Callan in the back with a knee.

Other than that we gave some real gems at Willy and just be patient.

azabob

13-05-2009, 07:17 PM

Agree with your comments however Hall is not a fringe player

He is struggling this year IMO. He may be fit and ready but he just isn't getting the ball. He has played 5 games this year and only kicked 10 goals and 4 goal assists. And 4 of those goals came against Hawthorn.

Desipura

14-05-2009, 09:33 AM

He is struggling this year IMO. He may be fit and ready but he just isn't getting the ball. He has played 5 games this year and only kicked 10 goals and 4 goal assists. And 4 of those goals came against Hawthorn.
The way Sydney muck around with the ball, is it any wonder why he is struggling. No wonder he has anger issues!

Axe Man

14-05-2009, 10:55 AM

I think it was on On The Couch the other night they highlighted an incident against Geelong on the weekend where Hall had a 10 metre break on Scarlett, leading up the fat side of the ground (inside 50) and the swans player with the ball either ignored or didn't see Hall and instead tried some stupid little short pass that didn't come off.