Jarrad Grant - a Realistic Outlook

[Mofra]

As much as we are screaming out for a tall forward, it seems the doughey eyed masses would like nothing more than to stick Jarrad Grant in the forward pocket and leave him there for a while.

I don't get it.

His first game was terrible. 'Oh, they didn't kick it to him" they cried. Well, most forwards don't get the ball on a silver platter the first time they lead; multiple leads are required (Jarrad didn't do this). Try watching Riewoldt's or Bobby's workrate during a game - a fit Bobby as a lead-up forward covers more ground than some midfielders (proven with GPS results).

AFL standard players, when dishing the ball off, run past the ball carrier to both provide a dsih-off option, and to spread the opposition defenders to allow leads up the field. Jarrad couldn't do this after quarter time. He looked stuffed.

Put simply, he is at least half a year behind in development, losing half of last year to OP. He will be a player in time, but that time is not now. I'm wondering why people want to replace a fit player with a skinny kid who is still, realistically, a couple of pre-seasons away from being AFL ready?

[G-Mo77]

His first game was terrible. 'Oh, they didn't kick it to him" they cried. Well, most forwards don't get the ball on a silver platter the first time they lead; multiple leads are required (Jarrad didn't do this). Try watching Riewoldt's or Bobby's workrate during a game - a fit Bobby as a lead-up forward covers more ground than some midfielders (proven with GPS results).

I take it this is blow back from something I said about the Carlton game earlier in the week. What I saw from the game team mates up the ground would not only refuse to kick it to him but not even look for him.

Grant has a lot of work to do before he does become a key forward that is obvious. He has played one game of AFL football so obvious he is not going to be able to do what guys like Riewoldt or Murphy do after many seasons in the league. These things he will learn with time. I think that is unfair to expect things like that after one game. Maybe those people who "cried" are not the only ones overrating him.....

I didn't see the point in bringing him in. If he wasn't fit enough or not ready then why play him? If he was not part of our plans in that game or structure why play him? I really felt sorry for the kid after that game it did nothing for his confidence at all.

[bornadog]

Put simply, he is at least half a year behind in development, losing half of last year to OP. He will be a player in time, but that time is not now. I'm wondering why people want to replace a fit player with a skinny kid who is still, realistically, a couple of pre-seasons away from being AFL ready?

I can agree with this as it does take some time to recover from injuries and setbacks, have a look at 2007 when we had three knee reco players trying to find form.

I expect him to play most of the second half of the year, provided he is up to it.

[Mofra]

I take it this is blow back from something I said about the Carlton game earlier in the week. What I saw from the game team mates up the ground would not only refuse to kick it to him but not even look for him.

Wasn't pointing anyone out in particular, as a number of people have said something similar. I saw more Boyd leads ignored during the game than Grant leads, but Boyd kept going (granted, he is one of the fittest blokes at the club as a key point of difference)

It's also worth noting we aren't privvy to the gameplan, so we don't know if the ignored leads were due to leading to an incorrect spot. My point was that leading once, and then not being able to lead again, is going to reduce your chance of getting the ball at senior level, regardless of who you are.


Grant has a lot of work to do before he does become a key forward that is obvious. He has played one game of AFL football so obvious he is not going to be able to do what guys like Riewoldt or Murphy do after many seasons in the league. These things he will learn with time. I think that is unfair to expect things like that after one game. Maybe those people who "cried" are not the only ones overrating him
I agree, and it is also unfair to expect that from him after 5 or 6 games at senior level, so I don't think in terms of development or team performance he should be in the senior side.
FWIW "cried" in the above sentence is not in the same tense as I used in my OP, I was alluding to an expression of opinion, not a whinge. Many of the comments are valid, I just disagree with them


I didn't see the point in bringing him in. If he wasn't fit enough or not ready then why play him? If he was not part of our plans in that game or structure why play him? I really felt sorry for the kid after that game it did nothing for his confidence at all.
Maybe it was to show him in practical terms how much of a step up senior football is. Hill wasn't very good in his first game either, and was often accused of similar things early in his time at the club (coasting on natural talent, not working hard enough etc.). It was even mentioned by some astute VFL watchers (of which admittedly I am not) that Hill hadn't really earned his chance ahead of some others.
What we got was a massive turnaround in attitude, workrate, and now Hill looks to be our most dangerous forward 6 rounds into the season just 18 months later or so.

It was a 1 week gamble that may pay off in the long term, and I applaud the club for that, but I don't think he deserves to keep his spot in the side.

[LostDoggy]

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It was a 1 week gamble that may pay off in the long term, and I applaud the club for that, but I don't think he deserves to keep his spot in the side.

I don't think many are going to argue with that view.

[Scorlibo]

I don't dispute that he didn't have a good game, but firstly, he wasn't the only one, and secondly, very, very few players are any good in their first game.

He will only ever learn from participation in successive games, and that is why I'd like to see him given more of a go.

[Dry Rot]

FWIW, I had a bit of a look at him in the Swans pre-season game.

While he showed some promising signs (eg good marking) the Swans defenders just smashed him to the ground when the ball was in dispute.

If nothing else, he needs more muscle/bulk.

We have an additional problem IMO that when we send a tall like him or Lake forward, we don't kick it to them anyway.

[LostDoggy]

As supporters we are not always privvy to the exact science of knowing where a player is, we can only speculate, ask the question and hope that in some way it gets answered.

We now have it answered with good authority, case closed.

I didn't realise that he was THAT unfit, well now I know, if that makes you happy.

[Mantis]

As supporters we are not always privvy to the exact science of knowing where a player is, we can only speculate, ask the question and hope that in some way it gets answered.

We now have it answered with good authority, case closed.

I didn't realise that he was THAT unfit, well now I know, if that makes you happy.

Some good points there, it does seem that the OP was a 'big fat told you so' post which is disappointing.

I also wanted Grant to play this week, but now we can enjoy watching how he's going at Williamstown knowing full well where he is at in terms of his development.

[ledge]

As much as we go on about expecting big things from the kid, i think it was good for him to play that game to get an idea of whats required, good on Rocket for showing him, my only question is why against such a good side when we wanted a win to stop the roll.

My only theory on this is one, he wanted the kid to see how good forwards play, Riewoldt etc and two, if he played against a bad side what does he learn?

The old saying is give them a taste and i agree completely.

[LostDoggy]

Some good points there, it does seem that the OP was a 'big fat told you so' post which is disappointing.

I also wanted Grant to play this week, but now we can enjoy watching how he's going at Williamstown knowing full well where he is at in terms of his development.

He made his point loud and clear in the other thread, not sure it needed a follow up told you so thread, we now know without any doubt where Grant's development lies, Im allowed to ask the question.

I agree with you Mantis, I look forward to putting this discussion to bed and enjoy watching the boy develop into a machine. I havent had this sort of feeling about a player since Nathan Brown.

It's become clear Rocket has put Grant in his place about what is required to make the level and it ass up head down form here on in!!

[Mofra]

Some good points there, it does seem that the OP was a 'big fat told you so' post which is disappointing.
WTF?

a. I mentioned he looked unfit days ago. Anyone who was watching him closely would have spotted it.

b. Weren't you talking about everyone having a right to an opinion?

c. It is a follow on from another devlopment thread as much as a Grant thread.

[MrMahatma]

I'd still like to see him fast tracked. I'd like to see us move a guy from reserves to seniors quickly for a change, rather than have another Tim Walsh on our hands.

He may not be fit enough yet, so we should be giving him a 'pre-season' now, and maybe he'd be much fitter in the 2nd half of the year, when he could then play seniors.

[Mantis]

WTF?

a. I mentioned he looked unfit days ago. Anyone who was watching him closely would have spotted it.

b. Weren't you talking about everyone having a right to an opinion?

c. It is a follow on from another devlopment thread as much as a Grant thread.

I have no problem with people having the right to express their opinion, but I thought you had made your point in another thread.

I think everyone had presented there arguements in a well constructed fashion and then when some supporting information to your arguement was presented the thread had run it's race.

This thread, I feel wasn't really required and as I said in my orginal post it just screams of 'I told you so'.

[GVGjr]

As much as we are screaming out for a tall forward, it seems the doughey eyed masses would like nothing more than to stick Jarrad Grant in the forward pocket and leave him there for a while.

I don't get it.



Same here. Playing him just for the sake of it won't benefit him as much as some fans think.
I think he will be OK from about the mid season on with his fitness and a spot might open up then for him.

[gohardorgohome]

I thought that our alliance with Willi was there to give young players the chance to develop. Bring Grant into the AFL once he is consistently good at VFL level.

[GVGjr]

I thought that our alliance with Willi was there to give young players the chance to develop. Bring Grant into the AFL once he is consistently good at VFL level.

We haven't always done it that way though. Often we have promoted players who haven't been performing that well (good but not great) but somehow Eade typically makes it work. It didn't with Grant but the player now knows that he has a lot more work to do with his fitness and he would understand the differences in intensity between the VFL and AFL a bit better .

[Mofra]

This thread, I feel wasn't really required and as I said in my orginal post it just screams of 'I told you so'.

If that's your opinion, so be it. You didn't strike me as the hyper-sensitive type though.

Some very valid points made in this thread so far IMO that don't relate just to the round 6 selction of Grant.

[Mofra]

Same here. Playing him just for the sake of it won't benefit him as much as some fans think.
I think he will be OK from about the mid season on with his fitness and a spot might open up then for him.
I agree, and I don't think it would work for any of our young talls unless it is a "Josh Hill 2007" type taste of senior action. Hopefully it is part of sme structured plan and his developemnt isn't going to be compromised by throwing him to the wolves early.

Josh Fraser is a good example of someone I though was thrown in too early, via the old school of "let em learn" by playing on men.

[Sleeve1970]

Same old story the hope of the forward line lays with one player...again.. and funny enough his name is Grant ... again... Well its time the dogs stopped patching and started getting some real talent. Grant (still to be really tested) is still 1 to 2 years away from anything that could look like a forward player. In the mean time get ready for some rough times.

I said it before and say it again, the era of Terry Wallace still haunts us with the smalls that he recruited. He done the same to Richmond. Going to take at least another 2 to 3 years before we get a forward line of any real substance.

[comrade]

Going to take at least another 2 to 3 years before we get a forward line of any real substance.

When Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and Ward are one of the most dominant midfield's in the league.

When Lake, Williams, Tiller, Everitt and Morris are one of the most solid backline's in the league.

When Roughead and Minson are one of the best ruck combination's in the league.

There's been some doom and gloom in this thread about how long it's going to take to develop these young kids but our list management has been very good over the last few years.

[Scorlibo]

When Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and Ward are one of the most dominant midfield's in the league.

When Lake, Williams, Tiller, Everitt and Morris are one of the most solid backline's in the league.

When Roughead and Minson are one of the best ruck combination's in the league.

There's been some doom and gloom in this thread about how long it's going to take to develop these young kids but our list management has been very good over the last few years.

More like when Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Hargrave, Murphy, Gia and Boyd are close to retirement and Hahn, Welsh, Aker, Johnno and Hudson have retired.

[comrade]

More like when Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Hargrave, Murphy, Gia and Boyd are close to retirement and Hahn, Welsh, Aker, Johnno and Hudson have retired.

They'll all be in the 29/30 year old age bracket in 2 years - you would expect a number of them to be still playing good footy and will complement the younger guys coming through.

It is obvious though that the 2009 draft is absolutely crucial - if we botch it we will have a gap in 3 or 4 years, especially with GC17 coming.

[Dogs 24/7]

I agree, and I don't think it would work for any of our young talls unless it is a "Josh Hill 2007" type taste of senior action. Hopefully it is part of sme structured plan and his developemnt isn't going to be compromised by throwing him to the wolves early.

Josh Fraser is a good example of someone I though was thrown in too early, via the old school of "let em learn" by playing on men.
Excellent observation about Fraser being rushed into a position before he was ready for it. It can't hurt Grants development at all to play the majority of the season for Williamstown and he does appear to be showing some signs of why he was drafted so high. A bit of patience is required until he adds some muscle.