Bulldog must impose himself

[Mantis]

Bulldog must impose himself (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25503929-19742,00.html)

Mike Sheahan | May 19, 2009 12:00am

At quarter-time in the Western Bulldogs' Round 1 fixture, Ryan Griffen's admirers were sitting back thinking how astute they (we) were. He had produced a quarter against Fremantle at Subiaco Oval that vindicated the most optimistic predictions for the dashing midfielder.

Seven possessions plus three goals, in 30 minutes; that is impressive by anyone's standards.

Those who had maintained the faith were convinced the boy had become a man.

A week later, he racked up 28 disposals in the win over North Melbourne and the fan club was buzzing with expectation.

Two rounds into the season, the Bulldogs were 2-0, Griffen was equal third in the AFL Coaches' Association champion player award. Perched behind St Kilda's Nick Dal Santo and Geelong's Gary Ablett.

After eight rounds, the old perception has resurfaced: Does he impose himself upon a game often enough?

If the answer is "no", is it because he doesn't work hard enough?

They are intriguing questions, and my answers are "no" and "yes".

In 2007, he led the competition for "metres gained", the measure of distance covered each time a player kicks the ball, be it long, short or sideways.

The '07 figure of 40.8m dropped to 34.8m in 2008 and is down to 28.6m this year.

Yet, at 22 and with 83 games to his name, he should be in, or nearing, his prime.

Put simply, he is a matchwinner who doesn't influence nearly enough matches.

He has had more than 25 possessions just twice in his career, both times against North Melbourne: in 2006 and 2009.

If the Bulldogs are to challenge for the flag this year, three players will lead the charge: Adam Cooney, Bob Murphy and Griffen.

Cooney and Griffen both are ball-carriers, and both use the ball beautifully.

Griffen is equal fourth at the Bulldogs for hardball gets this year, but, oddly, doesn't get as many "easy" kicks as expected.

He doesn't kick enough goals, either.

He had three at quarter-time in Round 1 and has seven after eight rounds.

He kicked 18 from 24 games last year, but his career average is 0.49. Admittedly, much of his time has been spent at half-back.

At 188cm and 86kg and with his natural pace and power and driving right-foot kick, he has all the attributes to be an elite player.

There are times when he plays to that level, but there are too many times when he is spectator rather than playmaker.

If his team is to have a realistic chance of toppling Geelong at Etihad Stadium on Friday night, he has to be in the mood he took into the Fremantle game.

He must play as if he believes he is the most important player in the contest.

If he can recapture that attitude, he just might be.

Is Ryan Griffen living up to expectations?

[Sedat]

Exhibit A in the "Captain Obvious" school of journalism. Of course Griffen has gained less meterage this season because he is not running off half back any more. In case Mike hasn't noticed, Griffen has spent virtually the whole season in the middle, and has for the first time in his career had to deal with the opposition's best defensive tagger for company. His work in close has gone up several notches this season, but it has come at the cost of his run and carry. He needs to continue to get fitter so that he can work just as hard in the other direction but he has added some steel and hardness to his game that will only benefit the full package in the coming years.

[Ozza]

The stat that he has only had over 25 possies twice in his career is quite alarming.

I tend to agree with the majority of Sheehan's article. I don't think Griffen works hard enough. The difference between his work rate and Judd's in the Carlton game was very noticeable - now I know nobody works as hard as Judd - but Judd's second and third efforts to get to contests made Griff look second rate.

I also agree he needs to kick more goals - he regularly misses shots from 40-50 on the run - and as someone with his kicking skills - he should be putting them away.

Someone said on another thread the other day - that we have always valued in and under players more than outside players - and I agree with that assessment. Griffen needs to work harder to get more handball receives so he can be damaging.

[Mantis]

The stat that he has only had over 25 possies twice in his career is quite alarming.
I tend to agree with the majority of Sheehan's article. I don't think Griffen works hard enough. The difference between his work rate and Judd's in the Carlton game was very noticeable - now I know nobody works as hard as Judd - but Judd's second and third efforts to get to contests made Griff look second rate.

I also agree he needs to kick more goals - he regularly misses shots from 40-50 on the run - and as someone with his kicking skills - he should be putting them away.

Someone said on another thread the other day - that we have always valued in and under players more than outside players - and I agree with that assessment. Griffen needs to work harder to get more handball receives so he can be damaging.

Would you prefer Griffen do have 20 possessions or Cross to have 35?

Number of possessions is the most over-rated stat in the competition. What you do with them is just a tad more important.

I do agree that his kicking is wayward at times. It seems to me that he gets lazy with his ball drop and just expects to kick it lace out every time rather than taking that extra split second which would ensure a better result.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Mike must have read my post in slaps and sledges for this round!

[LostDoggy]

Would you prefer Griffen do have 20 possessions or Cross to have 35?

Number of possessions is the most over-rated stat in the competition. What you do with them is just a tad more important.

I do agree that his kicking is wayward at times. It seems to me that he gets lazy with his ball drop and just expects to kick it lace out every time rather than taking that extra split second which would ensure a better result.

Speaking of ball drops, did anyone watch Freo's game against the Hawks the other day? Pav has to have one of the most magnificent ball drops on the run going around at the moment. There was a passage of play where he received a handball out on the intersection of the 50 and the boundary line, and he spun the ball in his hands to get a perfect drop, and put it through the middle on the run from 50 out. He is just a gem of a player.

[Ozza]

Would you prefer Griffen do have 20 possessions or Cross to have 35?
Number of possessions is the most over-rated stat in the competition. What you do with them is just a tad more important.

I do agree that his kicking is wayward at times. It seems to me that he gets lazy with his ball drop and just expects to kick it lace out every time rather than taking that extra split second which would ensure a better result.

I would prefer Griffen to have 30 - thats what I would prefer.

I know what you are saying with the whole 'possession numbers are overrated' - but that isn't the point.
What we need to be successful - is to have our damaging midfield players (Cooney, Griffen) to be getting enough of it to have a big impact against good sides. The fact that Cross gets it 35 times and Griffen only gets it 20 times is one of the many reasons we don't beat good sides.

If Griffen gets it 30 times this week against Geelong - we are a big show at winning the game - but the chances of him doing that are probably very slim at this stage because he still goes missing for big chunks of the game.

[The Coon Dog]

There is a perception that Griff does his hardest running when he or we are in possession of the ball, but doesn't work back as hard when the opposition have the ball.

[Ozza]

Do you agree with that perception TCD?

[The Coon Dog]

Do you agree with that perception TCD?

Yeah, since it was pointed out to me I have watched it & yes, there is not the same speed going the other way. Paul Hudson was like that too, no matter who he chased he never caught them if they had the ball.

[Sedat]

There is a perception that Griff does his hardest running when he or we are in possession of the ball, but doesn't work back as hard when the opposition have the ball.
That's a completely different issue, but it is something that Sheahan didn't even bother to mention in his article. I think all of us on 'woof' are in agreeance that Griff doesn't work hard enough/isn't fit enough running defensively. But the metres gained stat is meaningless because Griff is playing a completely different role to previous years, one that is continuing his all-round development.

[Mantis]

I would prefer Griffen to have 30 - thats what I would prefer.

I know what you are saying with the whole 'possession numbers are overrated' - but that isn't the point.
What we need to be successful - is to have our damaging midfield players (Cooney, Griffen) to be getting enough of it to have a big impact against good sides. The fact that Cross gets it 35 times and Griffen only gets it 20 times is one of the many reasons we don't beat good sides.

If Griffen gets it 30 times this week against Geelong - we are a big show at winning the game - but the chances of him doing that are probably very slim at this stage because he still goes missing for big chunks of the game.

While I agree with much of what you have posted I don't think Griffen will ever be the type of player that consistently racks up large possession totals. He does need to get better at receiving the 'give and goes', but I think his work around the clearances has been very good this year.

Hopefully his fitness continues to improve over the next couple of years which will allow him to become a premier midfielder in the competition.

[Mantis]

Yeah, since it was pointed out to me I have watched it & yes, there is not the same speed going the other way. Paul Hudson was like that too, no matter who he chased he never caught them if they had the ball.

I think that more has to do with the fact he runs too hard forward such that he has no energy left to run the other way. He needs to find a balance.

And the Hudson reference, please... Huddo wouldn't have caught a cold in his playing days.

[azabob]

That's a completely different issue, but it is something that Sheahan didn't even bother to mention in his article. I think all of us on 'woof' are in agreeance that Griff doesn't work hard enough/isn't fit enough running defensively. But the metres gained stat is meaningless because Griff is playing a completely different role to previous years, one that is continuing his all-round development.

Sedat, Sheahan does briefly mention Griffen's workrate. I actually wonder did you read all of the article?
Mike also pays credit to Griffen's inside work. I think most of the points he raised are vaild and you are just focusing on one or two lines in the article.

[Sedat]

Sedat, Sheahan does briefly mention Griffen's workrate. I actually wonder did you read all of the article?
Mike also pays credit to Griffen's inside work. I think most of the points he raised are vaild and you are just focusing on one or two lines in the article.
Yes he did, but Sheahan is using the metres gained as his compelling argument, not to mention the lack of goal kicking. And he only mentioned the runnng off half back as a throwaway line to justify the lack of goals, not the change in role for him this season.

And then he mentions Griff is 4th for hardball gets at the club this season but in the same line he finds it "puzzling" that he doesn't win any easy kicks? Gee, wouldn't be because he has spent virtually the whole season in the coalface in the middle and not roaming half back.

I found it to be an article that largely missed the mark completely.

[Ozza]

I can't agree with you on this one Sedat. I think the article is a very good observation on how Griffen is going this year. The once called 'easy kicks' are no longer 'easy' because they are primarily handball receives that a player has to do a lot of hard running to be able to rack up.

We play our best footy when Cross, Boyd (and now) Higgins are dishing the ball out to the running Griffen and Cooney - for these guys to take the game on.

[Go_Dogs]

He's sitting about 7th or 8th in our tackle count this year, averaging his best ever possession count, plus having to deal with more scrutiny, especially with Cooney missing a bit over the first part of the season.


People said the same thing about Cooney, even through times last year, but especially a couple of years ago, that are now being said about Griffen. He's a real power athlete, probably more so than Cooney, so he'll continue to get better as he builds his aerobic fitness up.

Yes, it would be great if he was tearing more games apart, but he's not traveling as badly as some are believing.

[azabob]

He's sitting about 7th or 8th in our tackle count this year, averaging his best ever possession count, plus having to deal with more scrutiny, especially with Cooney missing a bit over the first part of the season.


People said the same thing about Cooney, even through times last year, but especially a couple of years ago, that are now being said about Griffen. He's a real power athlete, probably more so than Cooney, so he'll continue to get better as he builds his aerobic fitness up.

Yes, it would be great if he was tearing more games apart, but he's not traveling as badly as some are believing.

I don't think people are saying he is traveling badly, I think more was expected from him this year and so far hasn't really lived up to those expectations.

[LostDoggy]

I know this sounds bizarre, but I've often thought Griffin would make a pretty good Centre half forward-maybe an extra centremetre might help, but his body shape, strength and accelaration wouldn't be misplaced there.

[Stefcep]

Would you prefer Griffen do have 20 possessions or Cross to have 35?

Number of possessions is the most over-rated stat in the competition. What you do with them is just a tad more important.

I do agree that his kicking is wayward at times. It seems to me that he gets lazy with his ball drop and just expects to kick it lace out every time rather than taking that extra split second which would ensure a better result.


Ablett 36 per game, Selwood 29, Chapman 29, Bartel 29, Mitchell 29, Judd 28, Dal Santo 28.


I reckon the above stats would confirm a strong correlation between number of possessions per game a player has and his ability to decide the outcome of game. I would say its far from an over-rated stat.

Grif is approaching 100 games, and really after the middle of this season there can be no more excuses. He's either gonna be an elite midfielder or he's not. Although i reckon his dads passing may be a factor so far.

[Desipura]

I know this sounds bizarre, but I've often thought Griffin would make a pretty good Centre half forward-maybe an extra centremetre might help, but his body shape, strength and accelaration wouldn't be misplaced there.

GRIFFEN

[Remi Moses]

Agree with Sheehan,it's time Ryan took a game by the scruff of the neck. Away strips having nothing on the outlandish pink shirt Mike gave us in ''On The Couch'' monday evening.:eek::eek:

[1eyedog]

Would you prefer Griffen do have 20 possessions or Cross to have 35?

Number of possessions is the most over-rated stat in the competition. What you do with them is just a tad more important.

I do agree that his kicking is wayward at times. It seems to me that he gets lazy with his ball drop and just expects to kick it lace out every time rather than taking that extra split second which would ensure a better result.

Agreed. Look at Bowden last year getting over 40 a couple of times. Cross needs to lift his work rate in the middle for players like Cooney and Griffen to flourish. Clearly Griffen spends much of his time winning his own ball, which is great, but he needs to be protected and fed the ball as well as he is so much more damaging with it than Cross and to a lesser extent Boyd. With good ball winners in the middle like Hudson, Boyd and Cross we should be able to protect Cooney and Griffen with blockages more than what we are doing. I also reckon that 25 odd goals a season from a midfielder is not a bad result. Ease up Mike and fellow Doggie supporters who are placing too high an expectation on Griffen. Most young players are judged after 100 games and I believe that he will be back to his best form once he gets more support from the inside players.

[1eyedog]

I know this sounds bizarre, but I've often thought Griffin would make a pretty good Centre half forward-maybe an extra centremetre might help, but his body shape, strength and accelaration wouldn't be misplaced there.

Yep pretty bizarre. He'd be wasted there and an extra centimetre won't help. A player that good with a high constitution needs to be in as many contests as possible.

[Sedat]

Perhaps we are very lucky that Griffen has been winning so much of his own ball in close this season because Crossy's output has been well down.

Anyway Griffen has added contested ball winning ability to his bow, so it's only a matter of time until both the outside and inside facets of his game come together long-term. This guy has already proven to be perfectly suited to the cut and thrust of September-intensity football, and his new found improvement in winning the hard ball will only enhance his already impressive ability to perform on the biggest stages and in the hottest intensity.

[LostDoggy]

Needs to work on his left foot and his kicking in general.

[Topdog]

It is his first full season in the midfield and he isn't having anywhere near the season I had hoped for him. Hopefully it is just him getting used to playing in the middle.

I think he might need another pre season of building up stamina to do it properly unfortunately.

[LostDoggy]

Yep pretty bizarre. He'd be wasted there and an extra centimetre won't help. A player that good with a high constitution needs to be in as many contests as possible.

I would like to see Griff and Coons rested forward more often than they are though. They expend so much energy sprinting off and on the interchange bench as it is they might as well go up forward instead and spend more time up there and use the energy to lead out strongly. The more time they spend on the ground in general the better, I feel.

Ratten did it with Judd quite successfully last week, and from all indications will do a lot more of it, and I don't see why not.

A lot of these gun midfielders would be elite forwards if they spent all their time up there. I know Cooney would be -- he's shown that several times through his career already that he would be as good (if not better) than the likes of Nathan Brown as a lead-up forward pocket or crumber. I think Griff definitely could do some damage up there too, and would definitely draw a good opponent at the very least.

[Swoop]

I think the article has merit, while we don't want any players specifically hanging out and chasing easy kicks, it does appear at the moment he is competing well at stoppages and earning his own ball but he isn't running hard enough into space to get the easier kicks which more complete midfielders such as Judd do.

Having said that, I think with time his all round game will develop and also with the addition of a fit Cooney we will be able to see both of them flourish in the middle. It's just another aspect of his game that he needs to work on like any player, keep in mind that Cooney was only able to break a tag properly for the first time last year so no doubt it's something that you need to adjust to.

His efforts in the finals highlight what sort of player he will become for the club, specifically on the big occassions.