Guy O'Keefe

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone think o'keefe has been stiff not to get a run yet or even be an emergency! I thought he would have been ahead of stack last weekend! Stack has played resi's most of the year! Should they give oker a crack this week against the swans and give harbrow a spell?

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we are going to be playing kids this year just because they are in good form at VFL level. I think they'd only come in for structural purposes if we have injuried. Unless our season was to completely fall away, then you'd probably question the selection of the team if we weren't playing kids.

[Dazza]

I'd think he'd be half a chance of playing this week with a few of the injuries we have at the moment. Possibly replace Higgins and have him attempting to play the same role. Stints in the midfield and up forward.

[LostDoggy]

That is what i meant to say, because we have had some injuries and some out of form, i just think he has been a bit stiff not be even in the mix!

[mighty_west]

Does anyone think o'keefe has been stiff not to get a run yet or even be an emergency! I thought he would have been ahead of stack last weekend! Stack has played resi's most of the year! Should they give oker a crack this week against the swans and give harbrow a spell?

Is Harbrow injured? Otherwise he doesn't deserve to be dropped.

[GVGjr]

Does anyone think o'keefe has been stiff not to get a run yet or even be an emergency! I thought he would have been ahead of stack last weekend! Stack has played resi's most of the year! Should they give oker a crack this week against the swans and give harbrow a spell?

I think his best form was a few weeks back and whilst he got a lot of the footy on Saturday he wasn't anywhere near as effective as I have seen.
He could have kicked 4 but got one in the last quarter and that could be the sort of thing that holds him back. Stack jumped ahead of O'Keefe based more on the senior teams limitations with pace and agility more than being in better form than O'Keefe.

Harbrow is unlikely to be given a spell.

[LostDoggy]

I think his best form was a few weeks back and whilst he got a lot of the footy on Saturday he wasn't anywhere near as effective as I have seen.
He could have kicked 4 but got one in the last quarter and that could be the sort of thing that holds him back. Stack jumped ahead of O'Keefe based more on the senior teams limitations with pace and agility more than being in better form than O'Keefe.

Harbrow is unlikely to be given a spell.

Fair enough but i still think he has been pretty consistent all year and should have been in the mix especially last week with the injuries. I thought harbrow was well beaten by stokes!

[Mantis]

Fair enough but i still think he has been pretty consistent all year and should have been in the mix especially last week with the injuries. I thought harbrow was well beaten by stokes!

Even so, O'Keefe isn't a defender so you would think he would only come in to replace one of our midfielders.

[GVGjr]

Fair enough but i still think he has been pretty consistent all year and should have been in the mix especially last week with the injuries. I thought harbrow was well beaten by stokes!

O'Keefe has been very good all season and has probably only had a couple of quiet games including the pre-seasons ones. With the senior side looking lethargic some weeks they will probably look at guys like Stack a bit more favorably than his form would suggest.

I agree that Harbrow was beaten by Stokes but he has racked up a few credits and is unlikely to be dropped. He certainly doesn't need a spell like Ward did a few weeks back.

[mighty_west]

The other point on Harbrow, and he is going to be beaten on occasions as he grows into this position, especially until he puts some more size on, but the way he takes players on is very positive, he can tackle, and tackle extremely well, we have all seen that, the fact that the coaching staff gives him a nod to kicking out is also a positive.

Unless Harbrow has a slamp in form over a period of time, it would be crazy to drop him, he just needs as many games as possible, and i wouldn't be suprised if he is as important a player as a Wirra at West Coast, or an Johncock at the Crows, will also release the likes of Gilbee to play further up the field.

[LostDoggy]

The other point on Harbrow, and he is going to be beaten on occasions as he grows into this position, especially until he puts some more size on, but the way he takes players on is very positive, he can tackle, and tackle extremely well, we have all seen that, the fact that the coaching staff gives him a nod to kicking out is also a positive.

Unless Harbrow has a slamp in form over a period of time, it would be crazy to drop him, he just needs as many games as possible, and i wouldn't be suprised if he is as important a player as a Wirra at West Coast, or an Johncock at the Crows, will also release the likes of Gilbee to play further up the field.

Would you like to see harbrow up forward in the pocket milne/davis style?

[azabob]

Would you like to see harbrow up forward in the pocket milne/davis style?

Harbrow played there last year. Before the start of this year I didnt think Harbrow was in our best 22, but now he is playing in our defence I really think its starting to work. So I'd prefer him to be left in defence.

[LostDoggy]

Would you like to see harbrow up forward in the pocket milne/davis style?

Yeah, I don't really like him down back. I wonder why he is being played there? I mean he has been effective, but he does make mistakes, he isn't big enough, and isn't the best decision maker. Wouldn't he be better as a small forward?

[mighty_west]

Would you like to see harbrow up forward in the pocket milne/davis style?

I really don't think he is suited as a small forward, besides, we have quite a few of those with the likes of Stack, Lynch & O'Keefe coming through who could all play that role, and i believe are more natural in that position than Harbrow, Hill, Aker, Gia are more than enough small forwards right now as well.

[Sedat]

The other point on Harbrow, and he is going to be beaten on occasions as he grows into this position, especially until he puts some more size on, but the way he takes players on is very positive, he can tackle, and tackle extremely well, we have all seen that, the fact that the coaching staff gives him a nod to kicking out is also a positive.
I actually think Harbrow is a poor tackler from a technique perspective - they never seem to properly stick and the opponent invariably still has the opportunity to dispose of the ball. His intent to lay defensive pressure, by actually chasing and tackling, comes completely naturally to him, but his technique when he catches his opponent definitely needs some work. An effective tackle should kill the ball instantly and deny forward momentum to the opposition, but too many of Harbrow's tackles don't kill the contest, and his opponent is still able to distribute further upfield. He almost goes too hard and too quickly at the body and invariably bounces/slides off.

[bulldogsman]

Yeah, I don't really like him down back. I wonder why he is being played there? I mean he has been effective, but he does make mistakes, he isn't big enough, and isn't the best decision maker. Wouldn't he be better as a small forward?

I was under the impression that putting him in the back line would better his decision making. He also adds a bit of run with Gilbee not being there as much. Hoping that Lynch or Stack can step up as a small forward anyway.

[mighty_west]

I actually think Harbrow is a poor tackler from a technique perspective - they never seem to properly stick and the opponent invariably still has the opportunity to dispose of the ball. His intent to lay defensive pressure, by actually chasing and tackling, comes completely naturally to him, but his technique when he catches his opponent definitely needs some work. An effective tackle should kill the ball instantly and deny forward momentum to the opposition, but too many of Harbrow's tackles don't kill the contest, and his opponent is still able to distribute further upfield. He almost goes too hard and too quickly at the body and invariably bounces/slides off.

I think i had that Geelong game at Skilled in mind when thinking about his tackling, his efforts in tackling are very good, all those things you mentioned will improve in my opinion as his body fills out, some of the blokes he tried to tackle are almost double his body side....:D

I must admit i was a bit "not too sure" when he was first played down back, but the last few games have really changed my views.

[Mofra]

I'd have Reid or Tiller in before O'Keefe based on what I've seen, I think Tiller doesn't get the credit he deserves for what he can bring to the side.

Reid will be a monster. I'm thinking a quicker Mitch Hahn.

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone think o'keefe has been stiff not to get a run yet or even be an emergency!

O' Keefe has been named as an emergency this season.

[LostDoggy]

I'd have Reid or Tiller in before O'Keefe based on what I've seen, I think Tiller doesn't get the credit he deserves for what he can bring to the side.

Reid will be a monster. I'm thinking a quicker Mitch Hahn.

Based on his one game at AAMI last year and conceding it was in the wet, Reid looked anything but quick.

Cross - like I would have thought

[azabob]

Based on his one game at AAMI last year and conceding it was in the wet, Reid looked anything but quick.

Cross - like I would have thought

Technically Mofra didn't say he was quick, just quicker than Hahn. :D

[Cyberdoggie]

The other point on Harbrow, and he is going to be beaten on occasions as he grows into this position, especially until he puts some more size on, but the way he takes players on is very positive, he can tackle, and tackle extremely well, we have all seen that, the fact that the coaching staff gives him a nod to kicking out is also a positive.

Unless Harbrow has a slamp in form over a period of time, it would be crazy to drop him, he just needs as many games as possible, and i wouldn't be suprised if he is as important a player as a Wirra at West Coast, or an Johncock at the Crows, will also release the likes of Gilbee to play further up the field.

It certainly does appear that they have decided to turn him from a forward into a back pocket/flank defender with run and carry and foot skills. Basically he is Gilbee's understudy.

We can all see that he is probably not a natural to this position and most likely has played all of his footy upfield, but it could be a wise move to turn him into an excellent footballer.

I don't think he quite has the goal sense of the top small forwards like Stokes and Rioli, so turning into a defender seems like a move that will give another string to his bow. At the very least it will teach him accountability, and will give him a lot of confidence if he can be successful.

[Mofra]

Based on his one game at AAMI last year and conceding it was in the wet, Reid looked anything but quick.
I'm basing this on more than one game.

And yes Bob, I do think he is quicker than Hahn which was my point. ;)

[LostDoggy]

O' Keefe has been named as an emergency this season.

If so can you recall which game out of interest?

[chef]

If so can you recall which game out of interest?

Pretty sure it was the Carlton game, he was in the extended squad but failed to make the final cut.

[azabob]

If so can you recall which game out of interest?

The Carlton game he was an emergency.

[LostDoggy]

The Carlton game he was an emergency.

Cheers Bob. Must have missed that one!

[Big_Willba]

If O'Keefe doesnt get an oppurtunity this week against the eagles. you would think that his oppurtunity for a debut this season might be lost. with finals upon its looking grim.

[The Coon Dog]

If O'Keefe doesnt get an oppurtunity this week against the eagles. you would think that his oppurtunity for a debut this season might be lost. with finals upon its looking grim.

I would have thought last week was the time, if at all to be honest. You just get the feeling it won't happen.

[LostDoggy]

I would have thought last week was the time, if at all to be honest. You just get the feeling it won't happen.

Leaving aside any off-the-field incidents, what do you think he needs to do to get into the team TCD? Doesn't seem to be much more he CAN do -- bests in the seconds every other week etc.

[The Coon Dog]

Leaving aside any off-the-field incidents, what do you think he needs to do to get into the team TCD? Doesn't seem to be much more he CAN do -- bests in the seconds every other week etc.

Comrade or some of the other ruegular Willy watchers may be better placed to answer that. I just feel that if he was going to play, it would have been against Freo when we had no Gia, no Welsh, no Murphy & no Higgins.

[Desipura]

Comrade or some of the other ruegular Willy watchers may be better placed to answer that. I just feel that if he was going to play, it would have been against Freo when we had no Gia, no Welsh, no Murphy & no Higgins.
regular, sorry hard to resist:D

[LostDoggy]

Since I moved back to Willy 01/07/09 I have only missed one Seagulls game (last weekend) and I am convinced that GOK is ready to go in the AFL. He may struggle to last the game out but many first gamers and indeed 1 - 10 gamers take a while to become accustomed to the pace of AFL, he certainly seems to have the skills and size for the game, maybe there is some off field problems that we are not aware of that is keeping him out this year. IMO he should be a gun player.

[Cyberdoggie]

Leaving aside any off-the-field incidents, what do you think he needs to do to get into the team TCD? Doesn't seem to be much more he CAN do -- bests in the seconds every other week etc.

Well it's fairly obvious he hasn't had a debut yet due to reasons other than his performances because he's been pretty consistent and one of the better seadogs this year.

Apart from the off-field matters he has a few things he needs to work on.
*Fitness! he's got to get much fitter if he wants to have an impact at afl level.
*Accountability/hardness/defensive pressure. Needs to improve in these areas as he's very much an Eagleton like player. No room for 2 Eagles in the side!
*Speed. Not something that can change drastically but he reminds of a young Matthew Boyd. Matthew wasn't the quickest and had some clear weaknesses in his game (kicking, balance, ball handling below his waist and his leg speed) but through hard work and determination he has become an excellent all round footballer with no glaring weaknesses.
O'Keefe is never going to be a Cooney or Griffen type racehorse but if he doesn't improve then it will be something that will hold him back as a footballer.


I also agree that if he doesn't get a game this week against the weagles then his only chance would be if injuries played a part.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if Easton Wood got a game this week instead of GO'K

[lemmon]

Just looking at this from O'Keefes perspective I really feel for the lad, along with Skipper they have been our best players down at Willi yet he has had to sit and wait while players around him who havent had that same impact on the field have gone up and debuted. He's got to be wondering what more he can do.

[Dazza]

If it's off field problems than I'm guessing not getting a run in the seniors is not going to help. At least give him a taste so he knows what he is missing. I get the feeling he could start to look for an out as soon as his contract is done if we don't give him a run soon.

[Go_Dogs]

If it's off field problems than I'm guessing not getting a run in the seniors is not going to help. At least give him a taste so he knows what he is missing. I get the feeling he could start to look for an out as soon as his contract is done if we don't give him a run soon.

And go to a crap club to chase more game time? I'd like to think not. Yes, he's had to wait perhaps longer than he should have, but there is going to be opportunities very soon as players retire, and he's got a good bunch of young guys around him. If I were Guy I'd be doing everything I can to stay at the club - regardless if I felt a bit hard done by.

Stack has waited about 2 and a half seasons before his debut, and he's worked out ok and shown some good signs since.

[bornadog]

And go to a crap club to chase more game time? I'd like to think not. Yes, he's had to wait perhaps longer than he should have, but there is going to be opportunities very soon as players retire, and he's got a good bunch of young guys around him. If I were Guy I'd be doing everything I can to stay at the club - regardless if I felt a bit hard done by.

Stack has waited about 2 and a half seasons before his debut, and he's worked out ok and shown some good signs since.

He is still only 19 years old, so plenty of time to develop.

[Go_Dogs]

He is still only 19 years old, so plenty of time to develop.

Exactly - they're just kids still. Football fans however are becoming increasingly less patient to see kids debut.

Hopefully the kids can see the work that goes into it and realise that they are sometimes multiple hard pre-seasons behind other guys - and until they have proven they can do the required amount of work at the required level, they won't get a run, and neither should they.

At the same time, would love to see Guy get a game this week ;)

[Mofra]

If it's off field problems than I'm guessing not getting a run in the seniors is not going to help.
I'd agree he's missing bevcause of off field behavior; if the missing of any session is true I wouldn't want to see him debut. We should be rewarding discipline, not poor behavior.

[Mantis]

Exactly - they're just kids still. Football fans however are becoming increasingly less patient to see kids debut.

Hopefully the kids can see the work that goes into it and realise that they are sometimes multiple hard pre-seasons behind other guys - and until they have proven they can do the required amount of work at the required level, they won't get a run, and neither should they.

At the same time, would love to see Guy get a game this week ;)

Hearing that he has missed at least one recovery session and isn't the hardest worker on the track means that he hasn't quite got the message yet.

He may have reasonable football skills, but his work-rate & fitness levels aren't anywhere near AFL standard yet. Unless he really knuckles down and takes a leaf out of the Cross & Boyd book on how to prepare your body and give yourself every chance of succeeding he might slip by the way side.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And go to a crap club to chase more game time? I'd like to think not. Yes, he's had to wait perhaps longer than he should have, but there is going to be opportunities very soon as players retire, and he's got a good bunch of young guys around him. If I were Guy I'd be doing everything I can to stay at the club - regardless if I felt a bit hard done by.


If I was O'Keefe, I'd walk.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=Mofra;102200]I'd agree he's missing bevcause of off field behavior; if the missing of any session is true I wouldn't want to see him debut. We should be rewarding discipline, not poor behavior.[/QUOTE

missing a rehab session is not good but it would be interesting to know if he was the only 1 that missed & the reason? I wonder if any others who missed played against Freo?

I agree mofra that we need to reward discipline but surely Form is the number 1 selection criteria & he has been consistently the best seadog this year & would probably win the Willy B&F if it was held today.
If a player is injured or is to be rested this week Okeefe has to be the player to come in as he finished the game in great form after halftime last week.
If he isnt the player to come in this week it would be very surprising as he was still named emergency despite missing that session & this game against wce seems the perfect time.

[wb_age]

What's his contract status?

If GC can't entice one of our more renown players, considering Clayton drafted him I get the feeling he may be poached if he doesn't get gametime anytime soon.

[Mofra]

missing a rehab session is not good but it would be interesting to know if he was the only 1 that missed & the reason? I wonder if any others who missed played against Freo?

I agree mofra that we need to reward discipline but surely Form is the number 1 selection criteria & he has been consistently the best seadog this year & would probably win the Willy B&F if it was held today.
I would think Skipper is leading the B&F based on what I've seen.

In any case, I'd expect the main factor is whether a player can have an impact at AFL level in the opinions of the match committee, not just their VFL form. Guy isn't quick and is in the bottom group for fitness so surely that must be weighing on the minds of the committee.

[Go_Dogs]

If I was O'Keefe, I'd walk.

To chase the premiership dream at the Demons?

[LostDoggy]

The reason there has been so much discussion on a player that hasnt debuted yet on this forum is because he has played so well without reward which is very strange.Especially when players with less form have been given the nod in front of him.
There are out of form players & players who would be carrying injuries that could do with a rest
This week against the Eagles would be the perfect time to debut him its not as if he hasnt deserved it.

We are going to learn alot by 5pm tomorrow If Rocket doesnt want to play him or doesnt rate him as others have suggested we will know then.
End of story!

[Swoop]

If you were a player trying to force your way into a senior side than you would do everything imaginable to earn that privilege, you would make sure the selection committee had no other choice but to pick you. Having missed a rehab session shows a lack of professionalism and a lack of maturity on the players behalf. I would be disappointed with Eade & co. if they did pick him and ignored this indiscretion.

St Kilda dropped Jason Gram an established AFL player to the VFL for missing a rehab session and he was already playing seniors, so you can only imagine that a young kid yet to play an AFL game trying to earn promotion missing a rehab session would not and should not warrant selection.

I think we all need a little perspective in this scenario, I can only hope that Guy has learnt a lesson from his actions and this will continue to make him a better player and adopt a professional attitude considering he is now an elite athlete.

[Sockeye Salmon]

To chase the premiership dream at the Demons?

Being wooden spooner at AFL level > winning a premiership at VFL level

[Happy Days]

So missing one rehab session should stamp his card for good?

If it's the reason he didn't get picked last week, then good. That would be a suitable punishment. But to continue on with it is a bit much; the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[Swoop]

I'm certainly not stamping his papers for good and I don't think anybody is for that matter. I think the door was shut on his debut last week because of the missed rehab session and now he needs to wait for that door to re-open. Just because he played well on the weekend it does not mean he will earn an immediate call up, they are the consequences of his original actions.

[The Coon Dog]

So missing one rehab session should stamp his card for good?

If it's the reason he didn't get picked last week, then good. That would be a suitable punishment. But to continue on with it is a bit much; the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

That's an assumption on your behalf that if Guy isn't picked this week its because of that. Clearly there would be other factors & I think we should have a bit of faith in the match committee.

[Happy Days]

That's an assumption on your behalf that if Guy isn't picked this week its because of that. Clearly there would be other factors & I think we should have a bit of faith in the match committee.

Williamstown's second best player all season, probably best on ground for them last weekend; it's pretty safe to assume his ability isn't whats keeping him off the park, at least not the determining factor anyway.

I was just going on what's been suggested by many others, anyway.

[Remi Moses]

If you were a player trying to force your way into a senior side than you would do everything imaginable to earn that privilege, you would make sure the selection committee had no other choice but to pick you. Having missed a rehab session shows a lack of professionalism and a lack of maturity on the players behalf. I would be disappointed with Eade & co. if they did pick him and ignored this indiscretion.

St Kilda dropped Jason Gram an established AFL player to the VFL for missing a rehab session and he was already playing seniors, so you can only imagine that a young kid yet to play an AFL game trying to earn promotion missing a rehab session would not and should not warrant selection.

I think we all need a little perspective in this scenario, I can only hope that Guy has learnt a lesson from his actions and this will continue to make him a better player and adopt a professional attitude considering he is now an elite athlete.

Here here ,missing a rehab session in this professional era is unforgiveable. I'd also be certain if an established player did the same thing he'd be dropped.

[Ozza]

Williamstown's second best player all season, probably best on ground for them last weekend; it's pretty safe to assume his ability isn't whats keeping him off the park, at least not the determining factor anyway.

I was just going on what's been suggested by many others, anyway.

Perhaps the match committee think he is simply a very good VFL player that won't make the jump. I'm only speculating - but there has been many many players who can't make the jump - and as TCD said earlier - I'm happy to have faith in the match committee on who is ready and able.

[Go_Dogs]

Being wooden spooner at AFL level > winning a premiership at VFL level

Maybe, but when you on the list getting paid regardless, I doubt it matters too much. If he's as good as everyone seems to think, he'll get his opportunity. If he spits the dummy and changes clubs, good luck to him too - but it shows a lack of athlete mentality and would tend to show he's a pretty soft character, and perhaps one we wouldn't want anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Perhaps the match committee think he is simply a very good VFL player that won't make the jump. I'm only speculating - but there has been many many players who can't make the jump - and as TCD said earlier - I'm happy to have faith in the match committee on who is ready and able.

But how can they ever ever know, if they never never (give him a) go?

Conjecture and speculation about a players' suitability is just that.. unless a player has a fair chance, and he's earnt that chance (that plenty of others haven't -- Williams, Grant, Stack, Lynch, just to name four who have played recently), to just stymie a guy's career because he MAY not look the part is negligent in the extreme.

And if they think he's never going to make it, why draft him? I can't stand how clubs draft players and then complain that they are 'too slow', 'have too small a tank' etc. It's not as if these issues didn't exist before they were drafted -- it just points to their own incompetence in not doing their proper due diligence on potential draftees.

And I have to say that you have far more faith in the match committee than I do: they have not proven themselves infallible by any stretch of the imagination.

[Happy Days]

But how can they ever ever know, if they never never (give him a) go?

Conjecture and speculation about a players' suitability is just that.. unless a player has a fair chance, and he's earnt that chance (that plenty of others haven't -- Williams, Grant, Stack, Lynch, just to name four who have played recently), to just stymie a guy's career because he MAY not look the part is negligent in the extreme.

And if they think he's never going to make it, why draft him? I can't stand how clubs draft players and then complain that they are 'too slow', 'have too small a tank' etc. It's not as if these issues didn't exist before they were drafted -- it just points to their own incompetence in not doing their proper due diligence on potential draftees.

And I have to say that you have far more faith in the match committee than I do: they have not proven themselves infallible by any stretch of the imagination.

Agree 100%

I'm not totally against the match comittee handing out encouragment awards, but to keep someone as underpreforming as Eagle in the side for this long, with O'Keefe knocking the door down, is almost criminal. He may be the golden boy, but it's gone too far.

Thats why the assumption regarding "rehabgate"; because based on Eagle, it can't be form alone that's keeping him out.

[Sedat]

Always dangerous to speculate that the player simply won't cut it at AFL level because of perceived weaknesses in his game without having actually given them the opportunity to do so. Otherwise the likes of Greg Williams and Sam Mitchell might never have had an AFL career of significance.

Having said that, there's no great rush on O'Keefe - he's only in the 2nd year of his AFL career and has time on his side to continue to work on deficiencies in his game to make him as AFL ready as possible. We don't "play the kids" for the hell of it, which I have great respect for our match commitee to ensure that players earn their place in the team either by form or filling structural holes in our list - truth be told, O'Keefe won't fill a gaping hole in our structure, and the players currently in the side that he is competing against haven't yet done enough in the MC's eyes to warrant demotion just yet (O'Keefe has fulfiled his end of the bargain in this scenario you'd have thought, just needs to continue to perform and wait for the opportunity in his area to emerge).

Oh, and pretty stupid for a player on the cusp to miss a compulsory rehab session. Just dumb.

[Ozza]

But how can they ever ever know, if they never never (give him a) go?

Conjecture and speculation about a players' suitability is just that.. unless a player has a fair chance, and he's earnt that chance (that plenty of others haven't -- Williams, Grant, Stack, Lynch, just to name four who have played recently), to just stymie a guy's career because he MAY not look the part is negligent in the extreme.

And if they think he's never going to make it, why draft him? I can't stand how clubs draft players and then complain that they are 'too slow', 'have too small a tank' etc. It's not as if these issues didn't exist before they were drafted -- it just points to their own incompetence in not doing their proper due diligence on potential draftees.

And I have to say that you have far more faith in the match committee than I do: they have not proven themselves infallible by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think it is as simple as that though. Put it this way - again I'm purely speculating as I haven't really seen much of the kid - other clubs - including GC17 - will have noted that he has been in the best all year in the VFL - so in that case he will be on somebody radar. So if our match committee have decided - due to pace, attitude or whatever - that they would prefer to trade GO'K, then why would you play him once and risk effecting whatever currency he has.

In any case, since I met his father at a work function earlier in the season - i have been hoping Guy would get a game at some stage. I still hope he gets a chance - but I have no doubt that Rocket and co are in the best position to decide on this. They see him at training, in intra clubs, in games every week - so I'm quite comfortable with letting the experts do their work.

I don't agree that scouts and clubs are incompetent or don't do due dilligence on players - that is fairly short sighted. Picking which 17 year olds will make good AFL players is extremely difficult - particularly as it involves trying to predict how much a player can improve and in which areas.

Matthew Boyd for instance, in his first couple of years at the Dogs, lacked a step of pace and his skills and decision making needed heaps of work. And now he's become a gun because those have improved. It takes a fairly dogged attitude and work ethic to improve to the level he has - and not one club saw that in him until he hit his 20s.

[LostDoggy]

We don't "play the kids" for the hell of it,

But we do (play the kids for the hell of it: Lynch, Hill's first game, Stack's first game - when he wasn't even getting a regular game in Willy 1sts! - Grant, Reid's first game),


which I have great respect for our match commitee to ensure that players earn their place in the team either by form or filling structural holes in our list

... and we don't (make players earn their place based on form or structural holes: Eagle, Addison, Harbrow)!

Total lack of consistency here, which can really mess with a list. Hard not to see that the match committee have their favourites that play regardless of form or fitness.



Oh, and pretty stupid for a player on the cusp to miss a compulsory rehab session. Just dumb.

Totally agree with this. Let himself down here.

[Mofra]

But we do (play the kids for the hell of it: Lynch, Hill's first game, Stack's first game - when he wasn't even getting a regular game in Willy 1sts! - Grant, Reid's first game)
I doubt they missed rehab sessions though; wasn't there an Eade comment just prior to Hill's first game about being the debut being "reward for effort" or something to that effect?

[LostDoggy]

I don't think it is as simple as that though. Put it this way - again I'm purely speculating as I haven't really seen much of the kid - other clubs - including GC17 - will have noted that he has been in the best all year in the VFL - so in that case he will be on somebody radar. So if our match committee have decided - due to pace, attitude or whatever - that they would prefer to trade GO'K, then why would you play him once and risk effecting whatever currency he has.

In any case, since I met his father at a work function earlier in the season - i have been hoping Guy would get a game at some stage. I still hope he gets a chance - but I have no doubt that Rocket and co are in the best position to decide on this. They see him at training, in intra clubs, in games every week - so I'm quite comfortable with letting the experts do their work.

I don't agree that scouts and clubs are incompetent or don't do due dilligence on players - that is fairly short sighted. Picking which 17 year olds will make good AFL players is extremely difficult - particularly as it involves trying to predict how much a player can improve and in which areas.

Matthew Boyd for instance, in his first couple of years at the Dogs, lacked a step of pace and his skills and decision making needed hepas of work. And now he's become a gun because those have improved. It takes a fairly dogged attitude and work ethic to improve to the level he has - and not one club saw that in him until he hit his 20s.

Hi Ozza.

Agree that some players don't blossom till a bit later, but that's not what we're talking about here. He's ALREADY outperforming most of the list, albeit at a lower level. There are some players who have never even shown that they are capable at VFL level that are getting games at senior level.

Also, while scouting is by no means an exact science, you can't tell me that AFL scouting is already at its maximum capacity -- most clubs didn't even have full-time professional recruiting departments until relatively recently, and the draft camp is also a recent development. There are still plenty of holes and room to improve in many footy departments, and there is no doubt that there are some pretty ordinary scouts getting a gig out there.

What I don't understand is the seeming disconnect between the recruiters and the coaching departments -- while they work closely together, often a player will be picked because the recruiter likes them, but will never get a game because the coach is adamant the player is 'too slow' etc. This is a ridiculous system that you will never find in professional sports around the world except in extreme and usually detrimental cases (management interfering with transfer targets in soccer for example). I find it bizarre that the 'head recruiter' has final say and responsibility over the success of draftees (the Terry Wallace excuse). The head coach must surely have final say over who comes in to the club, and under what conditions, so that he gets to pick his team from players he personally chose.

If GOK is getting the short shrift because he was primarily a Scott Clayton pick-up (who liked what he saw) rather than a Rodney Eade one (who thinks he's too slow and unfit) that's just bizzarre.

[LostDoggy]

I doubt they missed rehab sessions though; wasn't there an Eade comment just prior to Hill's first game about being the debut being "reward for effort" or something to that effect?

I thought it was the exact opposite -- Hill was 'letting himself down with effort', so Rocket gave him a taste of AFL football "WHEN HE PROBABLY DIDN'T REALLY DESERVE IT" (I'm sure I'm quoting this verbatim) to whet the appetite, and Hill turned himself around after that and got his second game (which he deserved) a year and a bit later.

[LostDoggy]

Do you think GOK dose not get a game because he might not do exactly what is asked of him, where as others are told to do certain things, do them and then get rewarded.

I too think it is odd that he is not given ago but think that he must not be doing certain things that the match committe have asked him to do during games, so they wont play him.

[mighty_west]

I guess it's just been tough for Guy to make his debut because of circumstance more than anything.

When he was on fire early on for Willy, so to were the Bulldogs side, now that he could have a chance of playing, he has tapered off somewhat in form as well, he did the same last year as well, started off like a house on fire, but his form went downhill in the second half of the season.

The other problems are where he would be best suited in the Dogs line up? Having hearing Gary Ayres talking up his game on the weekend, saying how well he was being a link type of player, do we really need that type in the Dogs side right now? compared to a Stack playing mainly up forward or Everitt as a flanker, Harbrows played well down back, but he has experienced players around him, maybe Stack got the nod ahead of O'Keefe because of his attitude.

That brings me to another issue, how many kids can we play at once? We are currently third on the ladder, we now have an "easier" few games with Freo & West Coast at home, but if we bring in too many kids, can that be something the match commitee are thinking about?

Whilst a player like Eagleton has been down in form of late, can we afford to lose more experience especially with the likes of Higgins, Murph, Welsh missing? West Coast will now be hungry to win, they don't now have the "priority picks" issue hanging over their head, and they have played well at times this year, we can only remember the first time we played them this year at Subi.

[Sedat]

But we do (play the kids for the hell of it: Lynch, Hill's first game, Stack's first game - when he wasn't even getting a regular game in Willy 1sts! - Grant, Reid's first game)
I was referring more to player types that were identified to add a missing dimension to our senior team - the likes of Grant, Hill, Stack and Lynch all possess weapons that are quite rare in our list, so they were given senior game time ahead of schedule because that type of player was in short supply in the senior team. Ditto Tom Williams, but I don't think anyone is complaining that he's been rushed into the senior team on the back of much poorer form than most of the Dogs players at Willy. In Reid's case he got a game based on form despite the team having many of his type already in the team - O'Keefe at the moment is in a similar boat to where Reid was last season in that his type is adequately catered for on our list. I'd love to see what he's made of in the senior team but the opportunities will come soon enough - Crossy certainly didn't receive the red carpet treatment into the senior team until almost 4 years of dominance at the lower level.

... and we don't (make players earn their place based on form or structural holes: Eagle, Addison, Harbrow)!

Total lack of consistency here, which can really mess with a list. Hard not to see that the match committee have their favourites that play regardless of form or fitness.
Addison and Harbrow filled holes in our list, and despite highly regarded by the match commitee for his hardness at the contest, Addision was dropped for an extended spell this season following a couple of ordinary matches.

We could be here all day talking about the Eagle. But in this season alone, he was more than pulling his weight up until his 250th - since then he has not in the opinion of many of us here, but his type must still be considered to be in short supply by the match commitee because he 's still running around (like a headless chook it must be said :)). My personal opinion is that Everitt could fill his run and carry role at a pinch (with better foot skills).

[azabob]

I thought it was the exact opposite -- Hill was 'letting himself down with effort', so Rocket gave him a taste of AFL football "WHEN HE PROBABLY DIDN'T REALLY DESERVE IT" (I'm sure I'm quoting this verbatim) to whet the appetite, and Hill turned himself around after that and got his second game (which he deserved) a year and a bit later.

The Hill situation from what I recall he wasnt ready for AFL footy but due to injuries and our poor 2007 season they thought lets give him a game. ANd it came off he did well the pre seaon of 2008 and hasnt really looked back since.

I guess it comes down to its easier to play the kids when your team isn't winning as you dont have much too lose. I think thats part of the problem.

[Big_Willba]

the kid wouldnt be talked about like this if he couldnt play. i dont think there has been one post on here saying he cant play and isnt good enough to make it at the AFL level, its only that he isnt quite fit enough or doesnt have the best leg speed. another pre-season and i think he'll be playing alot of senior footy next year. (if he approaches this pre-season all guns blazing) he should grab boydy or crossy and say get me to the level i need to be at over the summer.

although i dont think a taste of it this year would hurt, like hillys situation a couple years ago.

[GVGjr]

There has been a lot of comments and references in this thread over the last couple of days about "off field incidents" but the only thing I have seen written is he apparently missed one or perhaps two compulsory training sessions.

Assuming that it's true, and I have no reason to question that, it's not great for a young player trying to crack a spot in the senior side but it's hardly what I would a catalyst to speculate that a player isn't behaving.

What I have seen all season long is a player that works very hard and one that is very determined to become a senior footballer. Who knows if he will make it or not.

The true way of testing the seriousness of this is to see if he is selected in the Williamstown seniors or reserves. Good clubs like ours wouldn't hesitate to push a player back into the reserves if they weren't representing the club appropriately.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

We are going to learn alot by 5pm tomorrow If Rocket doesnt want to play him or doesnt rate him as others have suggested we will know then.
End of story!

Tough Call!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think we all need a little perspective in this scenario, I can only hope that Guy has learnt a lesson from his actions and this will continue to make him a better player and adopt a professional attitude considering he is now an elite athlete.

Their is always two sides to the story. Not saying that O know has happened however we may be better to give him a run and let him understand really how far off in fitness and intensity he really is.

The worst is he blows it again, the best is he knuckles down and puts in a good pre-season and matures over the summer.:D

[boydogs]

truth be told, O'Keefe won't fill a gaping hole in our structure, and the players currently in the side that he is competing against haven't yet done enough in the MC's eyes to warrant demotion just yet


O'Keefe at the moment is in a similar boat to where Reid was last season in that his type is adequately catered for on our list

Who are you thinking of when you say this? O'Keefe to me is a skillful midfielder/forward who is most similar to Higgins & Gia, who are out injured ATM

[bulldogtragic]

Change of pace. If he is not in favour with the powers that be, perhaps it is best to offer him up trade whilst he has put in a strong VFL season while he may have a peak in interest.

[Sedat]

Who are you thinking of when you say this? O'Keefe to me is a skillful midfielder/forward who is most similar to Higgins & Gia, who are out injured ATM
He's competing against Aker for a spot in the current team.

[The Coon Dog]

Interesting call.. slightly off topic, has there been any other player you can recall that has been under scrutiny to be kept on our list after getting close for a senior game on a number of occasions?
O'Keefe has been with us for only 2 years and talk is he has a number of deficiencies that may prevent him from being a good AFL player. What has changed since we drafted him?
Surely we were aware of this physical capabilities or lack of, prior to drafting him?
I know this has topic has been done to death however it has me intrigued.

Desipura, probably better discussing here.

[Desipura]

Desipura, probably better discussing here.
Gee whiz, you are too quick for me, I was just about to do the same;)

[The Coon Dog]

Gee whiz, you are too quick for me, I was just about to do the same;)

Sorry. :o

[Desipura]

I would like to know what the regular Willi watchers think about my comments? Guy has not yet played a game of AFL, what makes him less appealing than when we first drafted him, or has the game got that much quicker since we drafted him 2 years ago?

[Mofra]

I'd guess (off-field rumours aside) it's his workrate off the ball, which is a big part of gameplan these days. One player not doing the right thing can cause an entire zone to crumble.

[bornadog]

I would like to know what the regular Willi watchers think about my comments? Guy has not yet played a game of AFL, what makes him less appealing than when we first drafted him, or has the game got that much quicker since we drafted him 2 years ago?

I guess his biggest issue besides on field work rate, is off field work rate. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't get your fitness right, it won't work for you on field.

Have a look at Cross and Boyd and see what can be achieved, thast what GOK needs to do.

[Desipura]

I guess his biggest issue besides on field work rate, is off field work rate. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't get your fitness right, it won't work for you on field.

Have a look at Cross and Boyd and see what can be achieved, thast what GOK needs to do.
Boyd was not the fittest going around when we plucked him from Sandringham seconds for memory, in fact he was a little overweight. Look at him now, his body shape has changed considerably since those days.

[bornadog]

Boyd was not the fittest going around when we plucked him from Sandringham seconds for memory, in fact he was a little overweight. Look at him now, his body shape has changed considerably since those days.

Apparently as obsessed as Cross on fitness.

[Desipura]

Apparently as obsessed as Cross on fitness.
Fitnessed can be increased, a footy brain cannot, it comes naturally.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Have a look at Cross and Boyd and see what can be achieved, thast what GOK needs to do.

That said he is already achieving pretty good results and is not as fit as he needs to be.

It just seems to me that he has been made the scapegoat by the Dogs coaching staff when the Willy coaching staff seem to have had a lot of respect.

I think the kid is a player, and I wonder if our senior coach can be too stubborn at times with the Gen Y guys about who fits into, and who doesn't fit into their plans

[Big_Willba]

That said he is already achieving pretty good results and is not as fit as he needs to be.

Why in his second year has he been made the scapegoat by the Dogs coaching staff when the Willy coaching staff seem to have had a lot of respect.

I think the kid is a player, and I wonder if our senior coach can be too stubborn at times with the Gen Y guys about who fits into, and who doesn't fit into his plans

Great post. I agree with this totally. I dont understand how in one group of coaches he seems to be the "whipping boy" and in the other (willy coaches) he seems to be very well respected even winning the coaches award..?

he can obviously play or else he wouldnt be talked about like this without even playing a game! I hope if he gets an oppurtunity somewhere else we are not looking back on it and kicking our selves.

[LostDoggy]

That said he is already achieving pretty good results and is not as fit as he needs to be.

It just seems to me that he has been made the scapegoat by the Dogs coaching staff when the Willy coaching staff seem to have had a lot of respect.

I think the kid is a player, and I wonder if our senior coach can be too stubborn at times with the Gen Y guys about who fits into, and who doesn't fit into their plans

What is pretty good results? Racking up possessions in the VFL? We delisted around 4 every year - are they scapegoats as well and there are plenty of Gen Ys that fit in on the list well. Its been 2 years as mentioned Guy is the one of the slowest, has poor endurance and doesn't work hard enough of the track. At pick 63 it was very speculative and not a huge loss.

Eade made a mistake before with Kirk at the Swans but GOK doesn't have the attitude or the work rate Kirk does. Might get it at another club but I'm prepared to back the coach and his staff here.

BTW Boyd was at Frankston not Sandy. Also having a footy brain means you know what fitness you need to play at the level you want.

[Big_Willba]

What is pretty good results? Racking up possessions in the VFL? We delisted around 4 every year - are they scapegoats as well and there are plenty of Gen Ys that fit in on the list well. Its been 2 years as mentioned Guy is the one of the slowest, has poor endurance and doesn't work hard enough of the track. At pick 63 it was very speculative and not a huge loss.

Eade made a mistake before with Kirk at the Swans but GOK doesn't have the attitude or the work rate Kirk does. Might get it at another club but I'm prepared to back the coach and his staff here.

BTW Boyd was at Frankston not Sandy. Also having a footy brain means you know what fitness you need to play at the level you want.

the kid at 19 came a very close 4th in the willy BnF. would of thought thats pretty good results.

anyone whos watched him knows he uses it exceptionally well and brings others into the game better than most youngsters ive seen play. he will only get fitter and stronger.

[EasternWest]

What is pretty good results? Racking up possessions in the VFL? We delisted around 4 every year - are they scapegoats as well and there are plenty of Gen Ys that fit in on the list well. Its been 2 years as mentioned Guy is the one of the slowest, has poor endurance and doesn't work hard enough of the track. At pick 63 it was very speculative and not a huge loss.

Eade made a mistake before with Kirk at the Swans but GOK doesn't have the attitude or the work rate Kirk does. Might get it at another club but I'm prepared to back the coach and his staff here.

BTW Boyd was at Frankston not Sandy. Also having a footy brain means you know what fitness you need to play at the level you want.

No, having a footy brain means knowing what to do when you get your hands on the pill and also knowing what to do when you don't have it.

If your definition of having a footy brain were true ES, then Farren Ray would be a Brownlow medallist by now. Knows how fit he needs to be to play at the level he wants, still a terrible footy brain.

[Bulldog Revolution]

What is pretty good results? Racking up possessions in the VFL? We delisted around 4 every year - are they scapegoats as well and there are plenty of Gen Ys that fit in on the list well. Its been 2 years as mentioned Guy is the one of the slowest, has poor endurance and doesn't work hard enough of the track. At pick 63 it was very speculative and not a huge loss.

Eade made a mistake before with Kirk at the Swans but GOK doesn't have the attitude or the work rate Kirk does. Might get it at another club but I'm prepared to back the coach and his staff here.



I would have thought the pretty good results were straight forward:

4th in the Willy B&F 2009
Willy Coaches Award 2009
And when given the chance at preseason 2008 AFL level he acquitted himself well

I'm not by any means suggesting that he doesn't have room for improvement, but over 2 season at VFL level he has performed far better than Wood, Reid, Boumann and Grant who were drafted in the same year and better than Everitt, Stack and Lynch who've had more time.

Our Gen Y kids seem to need a bit of nurturing. I wonder why given OKeefes relative performance to his peer group he appears to be the one singled out. Boumann and Reid have had issues, and even Ward drew the coaches ire when he presented for the 09 preseason out of shape.

I just think the kid is young, and the penny drops at different times for different players.
It's not like Cooney or Griffen really understood what it took when they arrived either. When they came to the club my impression was that Ward and OKeefe were the most serious about becoming league footballers, and they also seemed to be pretty good mates. Clearly they know more than I do but I guess I thought the coaching staff would be pushing and coaxing OKeefe to become an elite runner, rather than just trading a guy who already seems a pretty handy player.

[GVGjr]

That said he is already achieving pretty good results and is not as fit as he needs to be.

It just seems to me that he has been made the scapegoat by the Dogs coaching staff when the Willy coaching staff seem to have had a lot of respect.

I think the kid is a player, and I wonder if our senior coach can be too stubborn at times with the Gen Y guys about who fits into, and who doesn't fit into their plans

O'Keefe was close to getting a senior game about round 14 but then fell right out of favor with the coach. FWIW, if Eade can get over some of the misdemeanors that Reid has done plus Lynch's questionable work ethic then he probably adapts to the quirks of the young guys fairly well.
If O'Keefe is really out of favor as we have been been hearing it sounds like he should be getting shopped around this week.

In the latter part of the season his form dropped and it could be either a poor fitness base that found him out or a realisation that his good performances weren't going to get rewarded.

The ball is in his court to prove his doubters wrong.

[Topdog]

It just seems to me that he has been made the scapegoat by the Dogs coaching staff when the Willy coaching staff seem to have had a lot of respect.


A scapegoat for what exactly? I really struggle to understand what you mean here.

[LostDoggy]

I have no idea about GOK but I know Williamstown is a long way from AFL standard.

Thats debatable whether he has performed better than others considering they play in different positions and we are looking for the ones that could play AFL not VFL.

[LostDoggy]

No, having a footy brain means knowing what to do when you get your hands on the pill and also knowing what to do when you don't have it.

If your definition of having a footy brain were true ES, then Farren Ray would be a Brownlow medallist by now. Knows how fit he needs to be to play at the level he wants, still a terrible footy brain.

Well if the opossite was true then we would footballers playing til their death (60+).
I never said it was the main factor in having a football brain nor did I say you have to extremely fit. I just believe part of having football smarts is the need to know your body.

[Big_Willba]

I have no idea about GOK but I know Williamstown is a long way from AFL standard.
Thats debatable whether he has performed better than others considering they play in different positions and we are looking for the ones that could play AFL not VFL.

We all know this, everyone knows this.

But what more can he do???? he's asked to perform at that level and he has better than some that have been awarded oppurtunities.

[The Coon Dog]

We all know this, everyone knows this.

But what more can he do???? he's asked to perform at that level and he has better than some that have been awarded oppurtunities.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors between Rocket & GOK, most of us only see what happens between 2pm & 4.30pm on a Sunday. I'm sure there's plenty we don't know about.

[LostDoggy]

I would have thought the pretty good results were straight forward:

4th in the Willy B&F 2009
Willy Coaches Award 2009
And when given the chance at preseason 2008 AFL level he acquitted himself well

I'm not by any means suggesting that he doesn't have room for improvement, but over 2 season at VFL level he has performed far better than Wood, Reid, Boumann and Grant who were drafted in the same year and better than Everitt, Stack and Lynch who've had more time.

Our Gen Y kids seem to need a bit of nurturing. I wonder why given OKeefes relative performance to his peer group he appears to be the one singled out. Boumann and Reid have had issues, and even Ward drew the coaches ire when he presented for the 09 preseason out of shape.

I just think the kid is young, and the penny drops at different times for different players.
It's not like Cooney or Griffen really understood what it took when they arrived either. When they came to the club my impression was that Ward and OKeefe were the most serious about becoming league footballers, and they also seemed to be pretty good mates. Clearly they know more than I do but I guess I thought the coaching staff would be pushing and coaxing OKeefe to become an elite runner, rather than just trading a guy who already seems a pretty handy player.

Great accurate post i agree on all points.You have hit the nail on the head BR Guy should be given a specific tailored pre-season running program & paired up with a Boyd or Cross & he shouldn't leave their sides! That's if he doesn't want to be traded! In fact Boyd & Cross are the perfect reason we should try & keep a player like Guy pound for pound he would probably be more talented.Lucky we persisted with both of them i'd say!

[bornadog]

We all know this, everyone knows this.

But what more can he do???? he's asked to perform at that level and he has better than some that have been awarded oppurtunities.

WEll he can get his fitness level up. As GVGjr pointed out, he fell a way after round 14.

[GVGjr]

WEll he can get his fitness level up. As GVGjr pointed out, he fell a way after round 14.

It fell away sometime after that round. When I mentioned round 14 that was roughly the time he started being named on the extended benches for the seniors. I thought his performances dropped a little much later in the season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

A scapegoat for what exactly? I really struggle to understand what you mean here.

Scapegoat is perhaps the wrong word to describe it

Perhaps easy target is a better description

[chef]

Great accurate post i agree on all points.You have hit the nail on the head BR Guy should be given a specific tailored pre-season running program & paired up with a Boyd or Cross & he shouldn't leave their sides! That's if he doesn't want to be traded! In fact Boyd & Cross are the perfect reason we should try & keep a player like Guy pound for pound he would probably be more talented.Lucky we persisted with both of them i'd say!

I don't agree with that.

We persisted with both those guys because they were willing to work on their deficiencies and get better. Yet to be seen if GOK can do this, but hopefully he can.

[The Underdog]

I understand the arguments about his deficiencies as well as those in favour of keeping him.
It was apparently the case that we kept Lynch last year because he was better and more advanced than whoever we would pick up in the 4th or 5th round (as may well be the case this year).
Could the same argument not be made for O'Keefe? Surely he's at least fitter and more chance of contributing than someone we pick up at pick 60+. I'm pretty sure he won't be with us next year but I think the argument can be made that he should be given a chance.

[bornadog]

Scapegoat is perhaps the wrong word to describe it

Perhaps easy target is a better description

Why would he be an easy target? What is to be gained from picking on him?

I don't believe there is any personal vendetta against him or any other player.

I think you will find the coaches and development team are not happy with his progress. He has most likely asked why he was not getting a senior game, and was told he is competing against other players in the team and a few home truths.

I think we have to trust the club on this.

[Desipura]

Also having a footy brain means you know what fitness you need to play at the level you want.

Not true, so Derek Kickett did not have a footy brain because he did not know what fitness he needed to play at the level he wanted? Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

[LostDoggy]

Not true, so Derek Kickett did not have a footy brain because he did not know what fitness he needed to play at the level he wanted? Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.
Yes sorry, I was trying to up you with something more funnier than getting Jesse White in a trade this year.

[Desipura]

Yes sorry, I was trying to up you with something more funnier than getting Jesse White in a trade this year.
I will take your response as that you being wrong again hence you changing the subject.

Glad you brought that back up about White, if I knew that Brisbane were a serious chance at getting Fev early in the week, I would have suggested we look at Bradshaw as you could not play both Fev & Bradshaw out of full forward.

As Sydney were the team mentioned early in the week, Fev would have been playing out of the square. Where in your opinion would that have left Jesse White, given they do not rate him as a ruckman?
If you were his Manager, would you not potentially look at alternatives where your client can get a regular game?

[EasternWest]

Well if the opossite was true then we would footballers playing til their death (60+).
I never said it was the main factor in having a football brain nor did I say you have to extremely fit. I just believe part of having football smarts is the need to know your body.

Fair enough Ernie, I do agree with that.

[bornadog]

I thought this thread was about GOK:eek::confused:

[GVGjr]

Why would he be an easy target? What is to be gained from picking on him?

I don't believe there is any personal vendetta against him or any other player.

I think you will find the coaches and development team are not happy with his progress. He has most likely asked why he was not getting a senior game, and was told he is competing against other players in the team and a few home truths.

I think we have to trust the club on this.

No one is really suggesting that he is being picked on however, there have been a few boys that racked up some misdemeanors this year but from what we have heard only one of them was singled out and apparently had his card stamped for the balance of the season.

If it's just form/fitness related then I'm sure he can do something about that but he was in very good form for a high portion of the season and was overlooked for other guys that hadn't quite strung as many good games together. The question being asked is why and I think it's a good one to discuss.

[alwaysadog]

No one is really suggesting that he is being picked on however, there have been a few boys that racked up some misdemeanors this year but from what we have heard only one of them was singled out and apparently had his card stamped for the balance of the season.

If it's just form/fitness related then I'm sure he can do something about that but he was in very good form for a high portion of the season and was overlooked for other guys that hadn't quite strung as many good games together. The question being asked is why and I think it's a good one to discuss.

My impression based on very limited discussion early last season with Rocket was that the senior coach and the player did not see eye to eye about a range of things, his fitness being foremost amongst them.

Matters I would like some insight into if anyone has the info is how Guy is regarded by the majority of the senior players and whether character wise he is amenable to persuasion or if he has to do things his way.

From all reports the boy is a natural and it would be a shame to waste such a gift, but he wouldn't be the first by a long way.

[Topdog]

Not true, so Derek Kickett did not have a footy brain because he did not know what fitness he needed to play at the level he wanted? Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

I think he worded it incorrectly. His next post on it sounds better with


I just believe part of having football smarts is the need to know your body.

I'd put that in more of a just being smart category but it is an essential part of being an AFL footballer (any pro sportsperson really) and something that from everything we hear GOK is failing miserably at.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Lets hope that post trade week Guy can learn from the feedback the coaches and the rest of the competition have given him.

I hope he gets another opportunity with us, and genuinely dedicates himself to become the Matt Boyd fitness machine

[LostDoggy]

Really glad to see him stay, hopefully he puts in a big pre season. Builds up a decent fitness base, and works on all the areas the coaches have asked of him.

I definitely think he has something to offer the club.

[The Coon Dog]

Really glad to see him stay, hopefully he puts in a big pre season. Builds up a decent fitness base, and works on all the areas the coaches have asked of him.

I definitely think he has something to offer the club.
Just because he wasn't traded doesn't automatically mean he stays.

[LostDoggy]

Just because he wasn't traded doesn't automatically mean he stays.

Thought he still had a contract?

Well i hope he stays, i put him in the same category of a Chapman etc.. He is a footballer, and not an athlete. Looks to be one of those guys who has footballing smarts, rather then just being athletically talented.

[LostDoggy]

Thought he still had a contract?

Well i hope he stays, i put him in the same category of a Chapman etc.. He is a footballer, and not an athlete. Looks to be one of those guys who has footballing smarts, rather then just being athletically talented.

Chapman????

[LostDoggy]

Chapman????

That's what i wrote.

[LostDoggy]

That's what i wrote.

O'Keefe isn't in Chapman's league, about the only comparision you can make is that they both shave their heads. A Norm Smith and the B&Fs says Chapman is athletically telented.

[alwaysadog]

O'Keefe isn't in Chapman's league, about the only comparision you can make is that they both shave their heads. A Norm Smith and the B&Fs says Chapman is athletically telented.

The comparison doesn't work for me either. I'd say what makes Chappie such a terrific footballer is that he works so bloody hard, and takes every opportunity on and off the field. So far I think Guy has shown very little to nothing of this quality.

[Topdog]

The comparison doesn't work for me either. I'd say what makes Chappie such a terrific footballer is that he works so bloody hard, and takes every opportunity on and off the field. So far I think Guy has shown very little to nothing of this quality.

Agree with that. Chappy does his hammy and then just works his arse off to kick another 5 goals in the game.

[LostDoggy]

O'Keefe isn't in Chapman's league, about the only comparision you can make is that they both shave their heads. A Norm Smith and the B&Fs says Chapman is athletically telented.

I am not comparing both careers, that is just ridiculous.

I am comparing the fact 'i think' Chapman is a footballer, and not so much an athlete. He wasn't drafted on the fact that he is super flexible or could run all day long e.g. Farren Ray. or even Tom Williams for that matter. He performs so well & takes every chance he gets, because he has football smarts in every situation.

And from some of the games i have seen O'Keefe play this year, he seems to have a pretty good football brain in certain situations. Some people are born with football ability, and are able to use that to there best out on the field, just like Chapman does.

This is something i think O'Keefe can provide for us.

[Dogz-21]

I'd say he has a huge amount of potential. If he had been called up to the Bulldogs this year it might have been extremely beneficial for him. (a la Josh Hill in 2007)

[The Coon Dog]

Has been told he's going to be delisted.

[bulldogtragic]

Has been told he's going to be delisted.
Any whisper on when we will lay out all our cards? (i.e. before 31st)

[Go_Dogs]

Has been told he's going to be delisted.

It's a bit of a shame because he obviously has the natural ability, but after 2 years on the list the coaching staff have seen enough to make a fair assessment.

Will be interesting to see if anyone else picks him up based on his VFL form.

[Hotdog60]

It might be a wake up call for him and he may do very well if he gets another chance. If there is any potential there could we redraft him on a last chance late pick deal.

[Doc26]

It might be a wake up call for him and he may do very well if he gets another chance. If there is any potential there could we redraft him on a last chance late pick deal.

Unfortunately for GOK I would say most unlikely as he's being delisted to make room for new blood. Maybe another club but suspect his time at the Dog's is up.

It's a damn ruthless business. Wouldn't like working in an environment where every year 3 team members had to get the chop to make way for newbies.

[LostDoggy]

Any whisper on when we will lay out all our cards? (i.e. before 31st)

From what I have heard:

Welsh - ret
Skipper - delist
Wight - delist
O'Shea - delist
O'Keefe delist
Shaw - rookie(delist)
White - rookie(delist)
Ogle - rookie (delist)

[LostDoggy]

Unfortunately for GOK I would say most unlikely as he's being delisted to make room for new blood. Maybe another club but suspect his time at the Dog's is up.

It's a damn ruthless business. Wouldn't like working in an environment where every year 3 team members had to get the chop to make way for newbies.

Its only ruthless if you don't work your arse off. They bloke obvious had some talent but I doubt he had the attitude.

[bulldogtragic]

From what I have heard:

Welsh - ret
Skipper - delist
Wight - delist
O'Shea - delist
O'Keefe delist
Shaw - rookie(delist)
White - rookie(delist)
Ogle - rookie (delist)
Ogle gone after one year?

[Doc26]

Its only ruthless if you don't work your arse off. They bloke obvious had some talent but I doubt he had the attitude.

Ernie, I do feel it's a little more complex than simply working your arse off and you have mentioned 'talent'. Assuming no voluntary retirements or players demanding to be traded there must be at least 3 players determined to be of least value or least potential value that must be let go. It is comparative to what you have on your list. Not saying that GOK did work his arse off (this I don't know) but maybe they all worked their arses off but the sum of his value comparative to others put him at the back end of the queue.

[mighty_west]

It's a shame really, because he has the talent, alot like Lynch, alot of us supporters would chop our left nut to represent the red white & blue and do whatver it takes, then you see some kids come through, pout in the hard yards to get on a list, but for whatever reason think their job is done, top 4 finish in the Willy B&F shows he has the talent.

I remember when both Easton Wood & O'Keefe first got drafted, both being long time mates from the same area, and both agreed that O'Keefe had the talent footy wise, yet now we see Wood stay on the list and with a bright future, and O'Keefe out, by pissing his career down the drain.

He can now go and drink as much as he wants & eat as much pizza as he wants! and work a 9-5 like the most of us.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I would have thought someone would rookie list O'Keefe, so he'll get a chance and it will be up to him

[LostDoggy]

Ernie, I do feel it's a little more complex than simply working your arse off and you have mentioned 'talent'. Assuming no voluntary retirements or players demanding to be traded there must be at least 3 players determined to be of least value or least potential value that must be let go. It is comparative to what you have on your list. Not saying that GOK did work his arse off (this I don't know) but maybe they all worked their arses off but the sum of his value comparative to others put him at the back end of the queue.
He is hardily the first bloke ever to be delisted with talent.
I'll take what the coach and his staff think about about him over whats written here or on BF.

[mighty_west]

He is hardily the first bloke ever to be delisted with talent.
I'll take what the coach and his staff think about about him over whats written here or on BF.

Daniel "Party Boy" Hargraves certainly fits that bill.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Daniel "Party Boy" Hargraves certainly fits that bill.

Interesting observation.

There's a few simularities between Danny and GOK.

I don't think Alan Joyce would have been too keen on GOK, either.

[Topdog]

Ernie, I do feel it's a little more complex than simply working your arse off and you have mentioned 'talent'. Assuming no voluntary retirements or players demanding to be traded there must be at least 3 players determined to be of least value or least potential value that must be let go. It is comparative to what you have on your list. Not saying that GOK did work his arse off (this I don't know) but maybe they all worked their arses off but the sum of his value comparative to others put him at the back end of the queue.

I don't think it is that complex. If you are kicked out of the system after only 2 years 1 of 2 things has happened.

1) You were a bad draft choice and obviously have no talent

2) You didn't put in the necessary work to make it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't think it is that complex. If you are kicked out of the system after only 2 years 1 of 2 things has happened.

1) You were a bad draft choice and obviously have no talent

2) You didn't put in the necessary work to make it.


No 1 didn't apply to GOK.

[Rocco Jones]

Lynch vs GOK is an interesting one.

Both have poor attitudes but at least GOK has performed in the VFL.

The massive strength of Mal Lynch is that he offers the ability to play a valuable role as a small forward in the side rather than competing for a role in the midfield/running depth.

I wonder if Eade would rate GOK's chances if he actually worked hard on his fitness or whether he believes he also lacks other tools to make it.

[LostDoggy]

Lynch vs GOK is an interesting one.

Both have poor attitudes but at least GOK has performed in the VFL.

The massive strength of Mal Lynch is that he offers the ability to play a valuable role as a small forward in the side rather than competing for a role in the midfield/running depth.

I wonder if Eade would rate GOK's chances if he actually worked hard on his fitness or whether he believes he also lacks other tools to make it.

From what I know Lynch has made right and I don't know of him being a poor performer on the track ie finish at the tail.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Lynch is still lucky. Reality is that besides a handful of games, he hasn't done a whole lot to warrant a position on the list. His role is a small forward but he doesn't kick a lot of goals and nor does he get his hands on the ball enough.

He's quick and looks good when he's got the ball in his hands, but I am not so sure he's as talented as we want him/think of him to be.

[GVGjr]

From what I have heard:

Welsh - ret
Skipper - delist
Wight - delist
O'Shea - delist
O'Keefe delist
Shaw - rookie(delist)
White - rookie(delist)
Ogle - rookie (delist)

I'm assuming that Daniels and Mulligan will be retained as rookies?

It's interesting the way things pan out.

From the draftees of a couple of years back, Grant, Ward, Reid, Wood, Boumann and O'Keefe I can't recall Ward and O'Keefe ever playing reserves football for Williamstown and yet the others guys all spent time in the magoos.
Grant was lackluster in the last few rounds and got demoted and yet O'Keefe seemingly with his card stamped stayed in the senior side.

I guess it really needs to be reinforced with the younger guys that their perceived attitude and work ethic can really work against them. That being said Lynch must grab this chance and make the most of it. Sooner or later his pace and athleticism won't be enough and he will need to rack up some good performances.

For the rookies, I can't recall Mulligan playing a senior game for Williamstown but Shaw did and yet he is the one being de-listed. Mind you I think that is the right decision but once again it shows athleticism means more than actual runs on the board.
Henry White battled his way into the senior side but it doesn't look like he will be retained on the rookie list.

A few dreams would have been crushed today and some harsh life lessons would have hopefully been learned.

[LostDoggy]

A few dreams would have been crushed today and some harsh life lessons would have hopefully been learned.

That if you're fast or tall you have more rope to stuff up with?

[GVGjr]

From what I know Lynch has made right and I don't know of him being a poor performer on the track ie finish at the tail.

Not sure I agree with that. I've seen him right at the back of runs in training sessions. He is more of a burst player though.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure I agree with that. I've seen him right at the back of runs in training sessions. He is more of a burst player though.

And someone has to be at the back of the pack. It's a statistical certainty. They would all still be fitter-than-average!

[GVGjr]

That if you're fast or tall you have more rope to stuff up with?

I think there was a few more lessons than that, mainly perceived attitude and work ethic, but certainly there is more scope for being maintained on a list if you have a decent attitude, abundant pace and some height. Results on the field can be somewhat secondary.
It's clearly a lot more than just about results and runs on the board and that's not a bad lessons for younger players to acknowledge.
Teams will provide a bit more latitude once you have established yourself as a senior player but I'd hope that the likes of Cordy, Roughead and Jones look at the de-listing and realise that they need to stay focused and work hard or they could be next.

[GVGjr]

And someone has to be at the back of the pack. It's a statistical certainty. They would all still be fitter-than-average!

I guess so though that's supposed to be for the bigger boys more than the midfielders.

[Go_Dogs]

Henry White battled his way into the senior side but it doesn't look like he will be retained on the rookie list.

Bit disappointing as by your reports from the B's it really started to click for him at the end of the year.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm assuming that Daniels and Mulligan will be retained as rookies?


2nd year for Mulligan, he must be elevated or delisted.


My guesses.

Mulligan to be elevated.
Daniels to be retained as a rookie.

Lynch to be delisted and re-rookied.

[GVGjr]

2nd year for Mulligan, he must be elevated or delisted.


My guesses.

Mulligan to be elevated.
Daniels to be retained as a rookie.

Lynch to be delisted and re-rookied.

Wasn't there some talk that the AFL had relaxed that rule allowing for rookies to be maintained on the list for 3 years?

[Doc26]

Wasn't there some talk that the AFL had relaxed that rule allowing for rookies to be maintained on the list for 3 years?

The Commission is to consider this submission at their next meeting to be held next week. So at this stage it's on the table awaiting a decision next week.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Wasn't there some talk that the AFL had relaxed that rule allowing for rookies to be maintained on the list for 3 years?

I thought that wasn't going to come in until next year?

[soupman]

The Commission is to consider this submission at their next meeting to be held next week. So at this stage it's on the table awaiting a decision next week.

Can I just say that this is ridiculous. How can the AFL leave such an important decision in terms of list management and players career's to a week before the list lodgement deadline?

Whether or not we can keep a promising rookie on for another year or not has massive ramifications. Say we had a very promising rookie coming into his 3rd year, and we wished to keep him on the rookie list for this 3rd year if the motion was passed, the result of the proposal being rejected would be that we would have to de-list another player who having made it this far would already be preparing for next season.

[Doc26]

Remember reading about it a few weeks back and it read as though it was being considered for this year's Rookie draft. It was all wrapped around considerations pre the arrival of GC17 and then West Sydney. I believe the Commission meet on the 19th Oct.

[Swoop]

Can I just say that this is ridiculous. How can the AFL leave such an important decision in terms of list management and players career's to a week before the list lodgement deadline?

Whether or not we can keep a promising rookie on for another year or not has massive ramifications. Say we had a very promising rookie coming into his 3rd year, and we wished to keep him on the rookie list for this 3rd year if the motion was passed, the result of the proposal being rejected would be that we would have to de-list another player who having made it this far would already be preparing for next season.
West Coast are in a predicament due to this exact situation at the moment. They currently have a few 2nd year rookie players on the list pending a possible 3rd year. I believe they have already stated Nicoski and McNamara both potentially will have serious ramifications depending on this ruling.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure I agree with that. I've seen him right at the back of runs in training sessions. He is more of a burst player though.

Behind O'Keefe?

[LostDoggy]

And someone has to be at the back of the pack. It's a statistical certainty. They would all still be fitter-than-average!

Yes usually the ruckman

[GVGjr]

Behind O'Keefe?

About the same, perhaps a few metres in front but right to the back of the field.

[LostDoggy]

About the same, perhaps a few metres in front but right to the back of the field.
I would have thought a midfielder would need to be well in front of goal sneak. Either way both are/were on shaky ground but I understand why O'Keefe went first.

[Topdog]

No 1 didn't apply to GOK.

Thats right. It really isn't a complex thing and as G said a fair few harsh lessons were handed out this week.

[LostDoggy]

2010 AFL club lists as they stand 16/10/11 5pm

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86155/default.aspx

The AFL still list Guy O'Keefe on the Western Bulldog list.

[The Coon Dog]

2010 AFL club lists as they stand 16/10/11 5pm

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86155/default.aspx

The AFL still list Guy O'Keefe on the Western Bulldog list.

You'll note, right at the very top of the article in says:

Note: Several clubs are yet to confirm their delistings.

[EasternWest]

I know this is dragging back up a dead thread, but any word on when this becomes official?

[knowitall]

It is official.

[ledge]

It is official.

It must be this was written by a poster called knowitall :D

[LostDoggy]

Shattered if correct. Watched him on numerous occassions in the VFL last season and he was clearly next in line to get a call up if a spot opened in the MF. If it's true what has been said about his training and attitude then he does need a kick up the arse.

Am i right in saying there no appears to be a gap in the junior ranks for MF positions. There's Sammy Reid and Dylan "utility" Addison, but outside of that i can't think of a young one who's next in line.

[EasternWest]

It is official.

Wow thanks a lot. That has a lot more creedence than every other "it is official", "he has been told" comment.

What I'm looking for from you is "it is official because...."

Come on knowitall, prove your name right!:)

[comrade]

Wow thanks a lot. That has a lot more creedence than every other "it is official", "he has been told" comment.


Why?

[Topdog]

Wow thanks a lot. That has a lot more creedence than every other "it is official", "he has been told" comment.

What I'm looking for from you is "it is official because...."

Come on knowitall, prove your name right!:)

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2009/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/86243/default.aspx

By Jennifer Witham 12:31 PM Wed 21 October, 2009

Bulldogs website can be useful to check before shooting someone down.

[EasternWest]

Why?

I was being facetious.;)

[EasternWest]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2009/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/86243/default.aspx

By Jennifer Witham 12:31 PM Wed 21 October, 2009

Bulldogs website can be useful to check before shooting someone down.

Shoot someone down? I thought a smiley face was satisfactory to show tongue-in-cheek-ness. I guess I'll have to recheck my woof etiquette.:o

I also want to partly blame WOOF for this happening. The Club homepage was my homepage before I joined here. But as this is usually way more informative, it's now my homepage so I missed that one on the Dogs site.

[FrediKanoute]

Well that draws the ROK saga to a close. Good luck to him and hopefully for his sake he gets the kick in the pants needed to go on and become a really good player at anothr club.

As for Lynch, well in the end I guess he just didn't do enough to win his spot on the list. Hopefully as some have suggested he's a chance to be rookied, but there are no certainties and its a reminder to all young players out there that getting on a lit is only the start of the hard work, not the end.

[Mantis]

Will probably go down as the most talked about player to have never played a senior game.

Will be interesting to watch how his playing future unfolds.

[GVGjr]

Will probably go down as the most talked about player to have never played a senior game.

Will be interesting to watch how his playing future unfolds.

He never played a reserves game either. For a number of weeks he was able to get his name in the better players so their might be a few clubs keeping an eye on him.

[FrediKanoute]

I'd be surprised if he wasn't at least rookied. The challenge for ROK now is to keep up his fitness before he gets drafted. If I were him I'd be training the house down!

[LostDoggy]

GO'K, you mean. RO'K plays for Sydney. :)

[LostDoggy]

Am i right in saying there no appears to be a gap in the junior ranks for MF positions. There's Sammy Reid and Dylan "utility" Addison, but outside of that i can't think of a young one who's next in line.


That’s a good question M.R.M.

With the exception of Reid and O’Keefe, no bulldog listed player was a regular in Williamstown’s midfield this year. We gave them height (Everett, Grant, Cordy, Roughhead, Boumann), we gave them defenders (Tiller, Addison, Callan, Wood) and we gave them Stack; but we didn’t provide any additional midfield depth because there isn’t any additional midfield depth on our list.

With the exception of Reid’s four games (and even he spent time in defence), the club replaced injured midfielders like Cross and Griffen with players who could perform roles up forward or in defence, and then increased the time that our forwards and Picken spent in midfield rotations. For the most part that worked and it should work again as long as we don’t get ravaged by injuries. If Williams and Everett join Hall in earning regular senior selection, then the Williamstown midfield could well be bolstered by at least one player who played regular senior football this year.

Lack of midfield depth could become a bigger problem in 2011 when Johnson, Akermanis and Eagleton are retired. Hudson will be 32 by then, Gilbee will turn 30 during the year and Boyd, Giansiracusa and Murphy will turn 29. The value of Cooney, Griffen, Higgins and Ward to the long term success of our club cannot be underestimated.

A related issue with the list that should be addressed over the preseason is what to do with Tim Callan and Dylan Addison. Both seemed to be fighting for the same senior spot on a half back flank at the start of the year and both found themselves in Williamstown because of the somewhat unexpected development of Harbrow and Picken.

Worse for them still is that after another preseason, Wood and Everett should be closer to senior selection than they are. While they’ve got some flaws (e.g. Callan’s skills and Addison’s decision making – tick tock tick tock tick tock), they are hard at the ball and capable of filling a role in the seniors should some of our more talented players be injured. I’d like to see one or both of them being groomed for roles in the middle for next season to ensure that we’ve got a little more midfield depth and our balance right.

[Mantis]

He never played a reserves game either. For a number of weeks he was able to get his name in the better players so their might be a few clubs keeping an eye on him.

Not sure why that comment is even relevant considering the reserves competition dis-banded some 10 years ago.

[LostDoggy]

Willy reserves???

[Go_Dogs]

I’d like to see one or both of them being groomed for roles in the middle for next season to ensure that we’ve got a little more midfield depth and our balance right.

Nice post TR, and welcome aboard.

[alwaysadog]

Yes Willi Reserves

Now be careful, you don't ruin this board, all the creativity will be gone if we define what we are talking about.

Still I don't think it will catch on.

[GVGjr]

Not sure why that comment is even relevant considering the reserves competition dis-banded some 10 years ago.


I think it's relevant, As you would know he never played a senior game for the Bulldogs and for that matter he never played a reserves game for Williamstown. Williamstown field a 2nds side or what I call a reserves side most weeks during the season.

I thought it might interest some people that out of draft picks the year he was selected only he and Ward have never played for the Williamstown reserves (2nds side) from my memory.

[GVGjr]

I believe that Guy might have got and accepted an offer to train with the Cats until the draft.

[ledge]

Would we redraft Okeefe if he is still around in a late pick or has Rocket completely wiped him?

[Mantis]

Would we redraft Okeefe if he is still around in a late pick or has Rocket completely wiped him?

From what you hear around the traps I would think that Guy has done his dash at WO.

[strebla]

I believe that Guy might have got and accepted an offer to train with the Cats until the draft.

This might be really good for him as the leadership group there should be able to get him to pull his head in.

[chef]

This might be really good for him as the leadership group there should be able to get him to pull his head in.

Why couldn't ours do that?

[Mantis]

Why couldn't ours do that?

He delisting wasn't only about his questionable off-field behaviour.

[ledge]

If he doesnt get a gig at Geelong could he still be pulling on a Willi jumper or is that no chance too considering we dont want him?

[bulldogtragic]

I believe that Guy might have got and accepted an offer to train with the Cats until the draft.
If he can't crack a game with our midfield, particularly at times when we had numerous injuries, then I think he might just be filling the 42nd spot on their list. He would need a dozen injuries to crack their AFL midfield...

But good luck to him.

[GVGjr]

If he can't crack a game with our midfield, particularly at times when we had numerous injuries, then I think he might just be filling the 42nd spot on their list. He would need a dozen injuries to crack their AFL midfield...

But good luck to him.


He's a local boy so they would be doing him a favor to have him training with them. It doesn't mean they are interested.

[GVGjr]

If he doesnt get a gig at Geelong could he still be pulling on a Willi jumper or is that no chance too considering we dont want him?

I can't see him staying at Williamstown.

[FrediKanoute]

GO'K, you mean. RO'K plays for Sydney. :)

GOK, not ROK OK :)

Seriously thanks for the correction.......

[LostDoggy]

GOK, not ROK OK :)

Seriously thanks for the correction.......

Hey no worries -- after all, for one last time:

GO'K RO'KS!

[The Coon Dog]

Hey no worries -- after all, for one last time:

GO'K RO'KS!

or

GO'K FO'KS OFF! :D

[LostDoggy]

Laugh of the Day goes to. . . TCD.

I am thinking you haven't shed a tear or lost sleep since O'Keefe's Delisting TCD

[The Coon Dog]

Laugh of the Day goes to. . . TCD.

I am thinking you haven't shed a tear or lost sleep since O'Keefe's Delisting TCD

No, I don't mind him to be honest, just was aware of what the match committee thought of him though.

[w3design]

TCD

They must had a pretty low opinion of him.

Had he not worked on things that they'd asked him to or was he just a prick of a bloke? Surely he wouldn't have been alone in that respect, there'd have to be some pretty big egos at most footy clubs.

[The Coon Dog]

TCD

They must had a pretty low opinion of him.

Had he not worked on things that they'd asked him to or was he just a prick of a bloke? Surely he wouldn't have been alone in that respect, there'd have to be some pretty big egos at most footy clubs.

Nah, he's a nice bloke.

Just didn't apply himself as the club would have liked.

[AndrewP6]

or

GO'K FO'KS OFF! :D

Nice work... :D

[w3design]

Fair enough and good to hear.

It seems a real pity about Guy though, I remember when he was drafted he seemed the most focused out of that bunch of draftees in making a go of his opportunity. I'm surprised he wasn't more disciplined.

[The Coon Dog]

Has signed to play with South Adelaide in the SANFL.

Link (http://www.safc.com.au/html/news.html#2010_signings)

[Go_Dogs]

Has signed to play with South Adelaide in the SANFL.

Link (http://www.safc.com.au/html/news.html#2010_signings)

Thanks for that.

Will be interesting to see how he goes playing for the Panthers.

[alwaysadog]

Thanks for that.

Will be interesting to see how he goes playing for the Panthers.


I can't make any sense of this whole matter. If I've got it right he got an award for his 2009 efforts with Willie, and going on performance observed by the regular VFL watchers he did better than OK.

There's a lot of innuendo but little of substance to explain his demise. We are only observers of the grand folly that is AFL football, but it would be nice to know what he did that was so wrong.

Like you I wish him well.

[GVGjr]

I can't make any sense of this whole matter. If I've got it right he got an award for his 2009 efforts with Willie, and going on performance observed by the regular VFL watchers he did better than OK.

There's a lot of innuendo but little of substance to explain his demise. We are only observers of the grand folly that is AFL football, but it would be nice to know what he did that was so wrong.

Like you I wish him well.


I think the assessment the club has given was that he just didn't have the pace or the fitness required to succeed at the senior level. That's not saying he wasn't and effective footballer at the VFL level because he was but I think there was also a perception that he didn't have the work ethic to bridge the gap.

[alwaysadog]

I think the assessment the club has given was that he just didn't have the pace or the fitness required to succeed at the senior level. That's not saying he wasn't and effective footballer at the VFL level because he was but I think there was also a perception that he didn't have the work ethic to bridge the gap.

It's not an argument with you GVG but I always thought all things being equal if you did better than the rest you earned your chance. That to me is the mystery of G O'K, he never got the chance.

[GVGjr]

It's not an argument with you GVG but I always thought all things being equal if you did better than the rest you earned your chance. That to me is the mystery of G O'K, he never got the chance.

He apparently was given some assurances for a game or two at about round 14 but then fell out of favor. It was a shame he was played when he was really in form but it just didn't eventuate.

[alwaysadog]

He apparently was given some assurances for a game or two at about round 14 but then fell out of favor. It was a shame he was played when he was really in form but it just didn't eventuate.

That in a nutshell is the mystery for me.

[GVGjr]

That in a nutshell is the mystery for me.

One of the things I have noticed with Eade is that you don't necessarily have to be starring at Williamstown to earn your promotion. A few players have been promoted after average games but they still normally perform well when given the chance. It's probably a good sign that the coach knows how to best use them.

[alwaysadog]

One of the things I have noticed with Eade is that you don't necessarily have to be starring at Williamstown to earn your promotion. A few players have been promoted after average games but they still normally perform well when given the chance. It's probably a good sign that the coach knows how to best use them.

I accept that and it's fair enough, that seems to me like the coach's discretion and I support that, but it doesn't address the case when a player performs consistently at VFL level and still doesn't get a chance.

[comrade]

I accept that and it's fair enough, that seems to me like the coach's discretion and I support that, but it doesn't address the case when a player performs consistently at VFL level and still doesn't get a chance.

We had a reasonably good year injury wise so not a lot of opportunities arose. IMO, Players that jumped the queue just seemed to have strings to their bow that complemented our AFL team better than Guy (Reid with his contested ball winning ability and Stack with his overhead ability and pace).

Can anyone shed some light on what the SANFL grounds are like, dimensions-wise? One of the possible knocks on Guy was the fact that he is a smart enough footballer to get to the right spots on small VFL grounds but would struggle on bigger AFL grounds. If SANFL grounds are similar dimensions to AFL, it'll be interesting to see how he copes.

[GVGjr]

We had a reasonably good year injury wise so not a lot of opportunities arose. IMO, Players that jumped the queue just seemed to have strings to their bow that complemented our AFL team better than Guy (Reid with his contested ball winning ability and Stack with his overhead ability and pace).

Can anyone shed some light on what the SANFL grounds are like, dimensions-wise? One of the possible knocks on Guy was the fact that he is a smart enough footballer to get to the right spots on small VFL grounds but would struggle on bigger AFL grounds. If SANFL grounds are similar dimensions to AFL, it'll be interesting to see how he copes.


One of the knocks on him was a below average fitness base and yet up until mid season (and even a bit beyond that) he was finishing the games well and having strong 4th quarters.
Now he was never going to be a player that ran hard up and down a wing all game but he must have been able to dig a bit deeper than he was given credit for.

[GVGjr]

I accept that and it's fair enough, that seems to me like the coach's discretion and I support that, but it doesn't address the case when a player performs consistently at VFL level and still doesn't get a chance.

I understand what you are saying. After displaying better than solid form for a few weeks there was still no opportunity provided to test him at the top level and yet players with lesser on field performances like Stack and Wood were given their chances.

We have probably covered a few of theories behind why he wasn't given a chance but it is perplexing to see guys like Mulligan promoted to the senior list without ever really being considered for a senior berth with Williamstown and O'Keefe getting de-listed having never been demoted to the Williamstown reserves side.

From a notion of competition for senior spots being good for a club you would like to think that on-field performances at the VFL would have a strong bearing with the selection process each week but it just doesn't appear to be the case.

[Before I Die]

From a notion of competition for senior spots being good for a club you would like to think that on-field performances at the VFL would have a strong bearing with the selection process each week but it just doesn't appear to be the case.

I am personally very happy with the selection process and with O'keefe's delisting, though I certainly wish him no ill.
Clearly selection is not only based on form, but also on attitude, ability to follow instructions, and willingness to learn, etc. Football is now absolutely a team game. Geelong, Hawthorn, St. Kilda and the Western Bulldogs have made this very clear. Talent and football smarts count, but they are nothing with out team discipline. I think it is great that simply being a good reserves player is not enough to get you into the senior side. After all, the best player in the reserves (yes I mean Willi seniors) was Skipper and while I wish him all the best at Hawthorn (except against us), he has show that he is only so so at AFL level.
If Guy had been harshly dealt with by the Dogs he would have been snapped up by some-one else. He wasn't, this is significant.
We all love seeing new players blooded, hoping fervently that they will be the next club superstar. However, at the Dogs it is clear that promotion must be earned and I have no doubt thet Wood, Reid, Grant and Stack did not jump any queues, but rather earned their games on merit.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Good luck to Guy with the Panthers

We have heaps of other 'guys' still on our list who have not performed as well at VFL level

I'm of the view that its disappointing it didn't pan out with us, as I rate his footy brain, but I wish him nothing but the best of luck

[Throughandthrough]

Poor bloke going to South Adelaide. Sh8t of a footy club. Plenty of money (in a lower socio-economic area, have 40 pokie machines that are flat out).

Club lurches from on field crisis to on field crisis, coach after coach and revolt after revolt.

Bugger all supporters, and the Oval is on teh top of a hill, near the sea, is windy as all heck and absolutely freezing. Not many of the players live near the club, all live near Glenelg (about 30 minutes drive)

The playing surface is excellent, and the oval is roughly of MCG size, but the club has a very poor history of getting victorian recruits who only last one year.

They had another doggy player last year (cant remember who) who only lasted one year

BUT on the upside the Panthers did produce footballers such as Koster, Griff and Darcy

Danny Del Re played there one year, dominated, kicked 80 + goals and left.