Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

[bornadog]

At last he gets a go, good luck

Brennanhttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/WesternBulldogsTrainingSessioncPopQ.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/WesternBulldogsTrainingSessionE_6rh.jpg

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Really looking forward to his debut.

Hoping he can show something tonight because according to the coaching panel, he has all the attributes to be a good player.

Good Luck to him.

[Go_Dogs]

Really looking forward to his debut.

Me also. Very excited to walk in the door and read this!


Hopefully he can have an impact and get a grasp of the level required. Big stage, hopefully he can showcase some magic.

[LostDoggy]

Hope he plays well (obviously, I hope they all play well). I haven't seen a lot of him. What type of player is he? Looks like a stronger version of Josh Hill.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Me also. Very excited to walk in the door and read this!


Hopefully he can have an impact and get a grasp of the level required. Big stage, hopefully he can showcase some magic.

I think it is exciting when any new player debuts, especially those that I have heard a lot about.

Just a side query, does anyone think Okeefe will debut anytime soon? He was hotly tipped to get a run, was in the emergencies and then nothing eventuated.

[Go_Dogs]

Just a side query, does anyone think Okeefe will debut anytime soon? He was hotly tipped to get a run, was in the emergencies and then nothing eventuated.

Going by the reports from the Willi watchers his form has quietened off a little. I suspect he'll get a run at some stage, but with the team playing well the last few weeks, and our strength of similar players, he has probably not got a run where perhaps at a lesser club he may have.

[Go_Dogs]

Hope he plays well (obviously, I hope they all play well). I haven't seen a lot of him. What type of player is he? Looks like a stronger version of Josh Hill.

I've only seen him in action live once at the start of this year, but based on what I know from others who have seen him countless times, he's a quick, powerful guy. He'll play half back and forward pocket. His skills and decision making are ok, but he does tend to drift out of games. Wonder what role he'll get tonight?

He has a few similarities to Hill, such as loving a big, high flying mark. But not sure how many other similarities there are. Hill is more an endurance runner, Stack a burst/power athlete. Hill is more suited to outside roles, and Brennan can probably play inside/win the loose ball a bit better. I guess we'll know more in a couple of hours.

[LostDoggy]

He looked good in the pre-season and I hope he goes well.

Great to have another new pup debut. Good Luck Brennan.

[Hot_Doggies]

Hopefully some of the Tigers are wearing thick padding on their backs, Stack could take mark of the year!! Why do they practice that at training?

Goodluck Brennan!!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I hope we see the goal of the year from him.

Best of luck Brennan.

[Dry Rot]

Hasn't been on much but pretty courageous according to ABC radio.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hasn't been on much but pretty courageous according to ABC radio.

Yep just looked to be a bit overawed by the big difference in pace between VFL and AFL, but his willingness to put his body in was pleasing.

A very courageous effort on the defensive side of the centre square in the 3rd quarter, jumping back into a pack and towelling up Deledio legally in the process.

Not sure if he'll keep his place next week but hopefully he can use the experience and go back to the VFL and retain the desire for another dip.

Guess it will depend on whether we want to give Murph til after the mid-season break as to whether Stack will play in Darwin.

[bulldogtragic]

I was happy enough. I think he will learn from the increase in speed and pressure. Very courageous and did some nice things. Nothing too major, but showed some nice things. Needs games and work out a position. He played back and was courageous, but up forward i thought he looked dangerous.

[lemmon]

Didn't get a heap of game time and didn't find a lot of the pill but it wasn't a terrible debut, was prepared to body and attack the ball and could potentially play that small forward pocket, pressure player now that Harbrow is impressing in the backline.

[LostDoggy]

Late in the third quarter I thought he pulled up short and grabbed the back off his leg. Looked a bit limp coming off. MMM said he hurt a rib but when the song was being sung in the room after the game he still look to favour one leg. Could be a hammy any one else notice?

[bornadog]

Late in the third quarter I thought he pulled up short and grabbed the back off his leg. Looked a bit limp coming off. MMM said he hurt a rib but when the song was being sung in the room after the game he still look to favour one leg. Could be a hammy any one else notice?

Yes I saw him limping off, he has had leg or foot trouble before. The reports after the game on the radio said no injuries.

[KT31]

Did alright for a first up effort.
Showed plenty of courage.
Won't have as many nerves next game and will improve for the experience.

[LostDoggy]

He was unlucky not to have kicked that goal. Did a couple of nice things, but didn't stand out much.

[Ozza]

Had a dip. Has pretty sore ribs now. I appreciated his attack on the ball. Wasn't clean or particularly effective - but had a hard dip in his first game - so I think that was ok. Will probably be the first to make way for others next week - but shows some potential and I hope he goes back to Willi with heaps of confidence and does very well there until his next crack.

All in all - an ok debut.

[GetDimmaBack]

Naturally a bit nervous, but his attack on the ball, and on the man with the ball, was good. With his courage, attitude and endeavour there's certainly something to work with.
Hope he holds his spot next week.

[AndrewP6]

OK debut... didn't do anything special, but has a bit to work with. Probably will miss next week if Murph is right

[Topdog]

Hope he plays next week in Darwin. I never like to see a young guy given just the 1 game. He certainly knows how to win the ball himself and could be a very useful addition to our forward line.

[comrade]

He's always been susceptible to fumbling down at Williamstown, and there was some of that last night, but what I was impressed with was his almost manic desire to make a contest.

I haven't really seen that from him before and it just adds a fantastic dimension to his game.

If he does get another run, it'll be interesting to see how Rocket uses him. Last night he played everywhere from full forward, wing and half back - I think he's better suited running from half back and reacting to the play, but his defensive pressure is an asset in the forward 50.

[Hairy Albert]

Went OK. Should get a run next week, let him get used to the big time.

[GVGjr]

He's always been susceptible to fumbling down at Williamstown, and there was some of that last night, but what I was impressed with was his almost manic desire to make a contest.

I haven't really seen that from him before and it just adds a fantastic dimension to his game.

If he does get another run, it'll be interesting to see how Rocket uses him. Last night he played everywhere from full forward, wing and half back - I think he's better suited running from half back and reacting to the play, but his defensive pressure is an asset in the forward 50.

Spot on Comrade. I'd prefer not to see guys come up for just 1 game but if he is to be played again next week why not give him a run with a defensive assignment across half back.

[Cyberdoggie]

He's always been susceptible to fumbling down at Williamstown, and there was some of that last night, but what I was impressed with was his almost manic desire to make a contest.

I haven't really seen that from him before and it just adds a fantastic dimension to his game.

If he does get another run, it'll be interesting to see how Rocket uses him. Last night he played everywhere from full forward, wing and half back - I think he's better suited running from half back and reacting to the play, but his defensive pressure is an asset in the forward 50.

I agree,

When he got his first Willy senior game he had the game from hell fumbling everything.
I think he was always going to do that last night on his debut. Needs another game as his endeavour was good. If he doesn't improve then he goes back to Willy. Pointless to give him a taste now and not see if he improves the following week.

[Happy Days]

Spot on Comrade. I'd prefer not to see guys come up for just 1 game but if he is to be played again next week why not give him a run with a defensive assignment across half back.

Generally I agree with this statement, I would agree wholeheartedly, but with Stevie T surely to be dropped for another backman (Everitt or Callan), and at least Welsh to come back, possibly Murph too, who else do you drop?

[SonofScray]

His effort was terrific. Put himself about and won a bit of the footy, lost a bit of the footy and won it back again. There is a bit to work with there and he'll get more chances over time I'd imagine.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud.

[soupman]

I would prefer him to be kept in the side for the Darwin match. I'd like to see Murphy brought back slowly over the split round, so if he is to play next week I'm fine with it being for Williamstown.

Welsh must come in though, and Stephen Tiller is the only player I think deserves to be dropped. Unfortunately they play complete opposite ends of the ground, so it can't be a straight swap unless one of the non-defenders in the side from last night head back.

[wb_age]

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud.

First post in this thread that I completely agree with, however you couldn't question the kids endeavor.

[Mofra]

Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

I admire your honesty - Stack wasn't very good last week at Willy, so I must say I was surprised to see his debut. Good luck to him, hopefully the 1 game debut rule (Hill, Reid, Grant & now Stack) is part of Rocket's development plan for the young 'uns. Worked for Hill, Reid looks like he will kick on, Grant's obviously a super-skilled work in progress.
Stack should now work out how to increase his intensity at Willy.



Going by the reports from the Willi watchers his form has quietened off a little. I suspect he'll get a run at some stage, but with the team playing well the last few weeks, and our strength of similar players, he has probably not got a run where perhaps at a lesser club he may have.
Given Stack debuted, I'm not sure Willy form is the only consideration. I could think of 5 guys who would have been ahead of Stack on merit, even taking into account he didn't play 2 weeks ago.

[LostDoggy]

He fumbled, missed a sitter, generally struggled to get a touch, but to me he just looks like he has the potential to play at the top level AND he really has a crack. I think Rocket has given him a taste of it and that it will help his development alot.

He definitely has the physique / speed to excel at the top level, so lets hope we see him back in the team sooner rather than later, as I doubt that he will still be in the team next week!

[dog town]

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud. Nick Bruton's debut was in another hemisphere to that ame. :)

The fact of the matter is that Stack hadn't really deserved his game. This alone means he is unlikely to hold his spot next week with some big names to come back. I am also opposed to the idea that a player will rise to the standard he is playing in.

Dont mind players trying to kick a goal off the ground but I think he just chose the wrong option on this occasion. The goal square is the only place you should be kicking the ball off the ground but on this occasion all his momentum was going the wrong way. I wouldn't hang him on that though as Hill, Johnson and Guido have all been guilty of this.

[bornadog]

Nick Bruton's debut was in another hemisphere to that ame. :)

The fact of the matter is that Stack hadn't really deserved his game. This alone means he is unlikely to hold his spot next week with some big names to come back. I am also opposed to the idea that a player will rise to the standard he is playing in.

Dont mind players trying to kick a goal off the ground but I think he just chose the wrong option on this occasion. The goal square is the only place you should be kicking the ball off the ground but on this occasion all his momentum was going the wrong way. I wouldn't hang him on that though as Hill, Johnson and Guido have all been guilty of this.

Many people probably the thought the same thing about Hill when he debuted for the one game in 2007 against West Coast. I think, the coaches can see something in him and last night was a learning experience for Stack.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Fact 1.

Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.



Can't agree with this SS. I don't think its a fair reflection of Stacks debut. There are not many Georgiadis like debuts nowadays.

It seems that you are particularly frustrated with our supporters negativity when we are not winning, but I dont think its fair to tie Stacks debut game to our rose coloured glasses.

Plenty of room for improvement for Stack but plenty to like about his athleticism, ability to get himself in good position, get his hands on the ball and his tackling etc

The teams performance is always going to effect how a 1st gamers game is assesssed

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Stack's nerves got in the way of his skills but his second and third efforts showed his worth.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Can't agree with this SS. I don't think its a fair reflection of Stacks debut. There are not many Georgiadis like debuts nowadays.

It seems that you are particularly frustrated with our supporters negativity when we are not winning, but I dont think its fair to tie Stacks debut game to our rose coloured glasses.




8 very soft touches, 4 clangers, a dozen fumbles and messed up a goal (that had been served up to him on a platter) that could very easily be construed as 'not putting ones head over the ball' (could you just imagine if Eagle or Gia did it? This place would have gone into meltdown).

Don't get me wrong, like every Bulldogs player I hope he does well and I'm glad to see him get a go, but realistically he's miles away from being able to cut it at AFL level. This isn't surprising, he hasn't really cut them up in the VFL level, but now he knows what is required it's up to him to go back to Willi and get better.




Plenty of room for improvement for Stack but plenty to like about his athleticism, ability to get himself in good position, get his hands on the ball and his tackling etc


Athleticism? He looks like Tarzan, so what? Cam Wight is as athletic as it gets.
Get into good position? Hardly. Did manage to get the ball handed to him occasionally. Didn't see him present to the ball carrier once. Didn't see him run off his opponent to create, didn't see him give his other defenders a cop out. What time were you impressed with his 'good position'?
Tackling? The only tackle he laid he gave away a soft free.





The teams performance is always going to effect how a 1st gamers game is assesssed

Why? I wasn't talking about the team, I was talking about Stack. An arguement could be made that if he couldn't get a touch when things were easy, how on earth will he get near it when it gets tough?

I'm not writing him off, I made the comment that Mitch Hahn had just about the worst debut you could ever imagine; let's just call a spade a spade - he was terrible.

[LostDoggy]

8 very soft touches, 4 clangers, a dozen fumbles and messed up a goal (that had been served up to him on a platter) that could very easily be construed as 'not putting ones head over the ball' (could you just imagine if Eagle or Gia did it? This place would have gone into meltdown).

Don't get me wrong, like every Bulldogs player I hope he does well and I'm glad to see him get a go, but realistically he's miles away from being able to cut it at AFL level. This isn't surprising, he hasn't really cut them up in the VFL level, but now he knows what is required it's up to him to go back to Willi and get better.



Athleticism? He looks like Tarzan, so what? Cam Wight is as athletic as it gets.
Get into good position? Hardly. Did manage to get the ball handed to him occasionally. Didn't see him present to the ball carrier once. Didn't see him run off his opponent to create, didn't see him give his other defenders a cop out. What time were you impressed with his 'good position'?
Tackling? The only tackle he laid he gave away a soft free.




Why? I wasn't talking about the team, I was talking about Stack. An arguement could be made that if he couldn't get a touch when things were easy, how on earth will he get near it when it gets tough?

I'm not writing him off, I made the comment that Mitch Hahn had just about the worst debut you could ever imagine; let's just call a spade a spade - he was terrible.

I would have to agree, in all areas bar his size and strength he really looked out of his depth by a long way but I have to say Tiller did too. Like Grant, he should be heading back to Willy with a real appreciation of the next step. I think he sure has some upside and could be a player in the mold of Hahn. What he did well was some of the tough stuff and he sure looks to be a handy player for when we need to add some toughness to the side.

We need our best team possible for Darwin.

[Desipura]

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud.

Did he not back into a pack when a ball was kicked up high in the air only to see him come down with it? Im sure he clutched it and then there was a ball up. All his teammates went to him at the 3 qtr time siren to congratualte him for his courage. I think you are being unfair to a 1st gamer.

[Scraggers]

Sorry SS, I disagree ... I thought he did okay for his first game ... He showed courage and commitment. His third / fourth / fifth efforts are exactly what I want to see from a player making his debut.

[Topdog]

Skill wise it was an awful debut you are correct SS. However I loved his courage and determination. I'll watch the replay on Tuesday morning and see if that changes anything

[Go_Dogs]

Didn't see him present to the ball carrier once.

In the first term he presented to the ball carrier very well. There were about 3 or 4 occasions when he was on, and either just fumbled or someone slipped infront and cut the pass off. I thought his leading to the ball carrier was pretty good - especially early.



Not saying he had a world beating debut, but I think you've been quite harsh on him SS.

[Mofra]

Many people probably the thought the same thing about Hill when he debuted for the one game in 2007 against West Coast.
That was a poor debut too, which is why he went back to the VFL for the rest of the year, albeit with a heightened sense of what is required to compete at the top level. He trained his arse off and reaped the rewards. Hopefully that's what happened with Stack.

I wonder how people would rate a Gia or Eagleton if they put in the same performance.

[bornadog]

Debut....... Kicks..... Handballs

Picken..... 3..... 9

Grant..... 1..... 7

Stack..... 2..... 6

[Go_Dogs]

That was a poor debut too, which is why he went back to the VFL for the rest of the year, albeit with a heightened sense of what is required to compete at the top level. He trained his arse off and reaped the rewards. Hopefully that's what happened with Stack.

I wonder how people would rate a Gia or Eagleton if they put in the same performance.

Would it not be fair to be more critical of seasoned players than a bloke in his first game?

[GVGjr]

Would it not be fair to be more critical of seasoned players than a bloke in his first game?

Probably but I do believe there was a few people saying that it was a successful debut rather a poor to average debut.

For the people that get to see Williamstown a bit I don't think we saw top much different from his last outing. He will be better for the experience but he hardly set the world on fire

[Mofra]

Would it not be fair to be more critical of seasoned players than a bloke in his first game?
I'm talking about pure performance.
What about a Wight or Tiller, would they be given the same slack?

Simple question, if we had 22 contributers like Stack, would we have won the game?

[Mofra]

For the people that get to see Williamstown a bit I don't think we saw top much different from his last outing. He will be better for the experience but he hardly set the world on fire
Exactly. The debut seems to be more about Stack's development than any reward for sustained form.
It worked for Hill 2 years ago, Reid seems to be not far off, I would suggest that cue is in the rack for Stack for the remainder of 2009 & he'd be expected to froce his way into the senior line up a few more times next year.

[Mantis]

Simple question, if we had 22 contributers like Stack, would we have won the game?

I think that is a very unfair and unreasonable question to ask.

[Scraggers]

Probably but I do believe there was a few people saying that it was a successful debut rather a poor to average debut.

For the people that get to see Williamstown a bit I don't think we saw top much different from his last outing. He will be better for the experience but he hardly set the world on fire

On 6PR in Perth, Brad Hardie was raving about his game; stating that it was a great start to his career ... he also said tha tale of the tape (stats) would do him a dis-service as it was it work off the ball that was most pleasing

[BulldogBelle]

Great giving Stack and guys like O'Keefe, Grant and possibly Roughead one or two games for the season to give them a taste of what is required

When we play against teams like Richmond, Freo, North and the Dees its a perfect opportunity to play these guys

They will be better for the experience and we will be better for the knowledge of how they perform at the top level

[Mofra]

I think that is a very unfair and unreasonable question to ask.
I was asking someone who thought he played well. I disagree. It's a valid question to the poster I was referring to.

[boydogs]

I was asking someone who thought he played well. I disagree. It's a valid question to the poster I was referring to.

You are never going to win a game with 22 debutants and that should not be a reflection on whether their debuts were a success. Having said that I didn't think Stack played well

[bornadog]

Interesting the number one draft pick only had 8 disposals today. I don't know what people expect from a debut.

[Mofra]

I don't know what people expect from a debut.
Might be an idea for an interesting thread in itself.

I'd like a kid to either fill a need for the team (Picken/Morris/Boyd style) or at least show a clean pair of hands & run to the right spots (Grant's hands were clean when he debuted at least, and he timed his first leads fairly well early in the game).

Having said that, we tend to have a different philosophy on some debutants, almost like a part of the development (Hill, Reid, Stack & Grant come to mind) with the impact to come after another pre-season so we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Interesting the number one draft pick only had 8 disposals today. I don't know what people expect from a debut.

Exactly. It is only very rarely that a first gamer wows people and even then it is usually only one or two things they do eg they may kick a good goal.

I remember playing my first game in the A's for my club, it was a huge step up in terms of speed and physicality and I found it very difficult to get into the game despite playing in the midfield. I didn't even have the same sort of crowd and pressure to contend with.

I like the 20 game rule that has been referenced on here quite a few times. After 20 games they are fair game, criticism can flow like beer at an open bar. But till then we should reserve our judgement somewhat, not much can be taken from a first game.

[The Adelaide Connection]

An interesting note on debuts:

"Following scores of 18 and 1, the selectors dropped Bradman to twelfth man for the Second Test..."

[Mantis]

I was asking someone who thought he played well. I disagree. It's a valid question to the poster I was referring to.

No it's not because you know the answer to the question.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Interesting the number one draft pick only had 8 disposals today. I don't know what people expect from a debut.

My criticism was not about Stacks performance (which was about what I expected); my criticism was people taliking it up into something it clearly wasn't.

[Happy Days]

My criticism was not about Stacks performance (which was about what I expected); my criticism was people taliking it up into something it clearly wasn't.



Stack was dreadful! .

Buh?

[Mofra]

No it's not because you know the answer to the question.
It's a question to make a poiint. All rhetorical questions are invalid according to your logic?

Maybe you should get off your high horse and contribute an opinion instead of sniping from the sidelines.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Buh?

But I expected him to be dreadful :)

Stack was dreadful. He hasn't deserved a game through his performances at Willi; he got an encouragement award. That's OK, now he knows what to expect. I don't have a problem with that, Tim Walsh got one, so did Josh Hill, Jarrod Harbrow and Jarryd Grant. None of them played much better that Brennan.

[alwaysadog]

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud.

Well SS you clearly put the lie to that football proverb, but I'm not sure you have not gone overboard about the negativities especially when comparing it to the worst ever first games. Did you actually mean that or were you just creating a dramatic effect to balance the over enthusiasm of some.

Perhaps you should answer your own question; "Can we have some perspective here?" because perspective seemed to be lacking in your post.

FWIW I think there were both positives and negatives to his efforts on Friday night and I've seen players who became regulars start far worse.

I take exception to the idea that somehow he had got a game based on other than merit. This is a slur on the coaches and there professional capacities that I don't want to contemplate, especially from a respected and senior member of this board.

Excatly what are you suggesting, that somehow he got preferred treatment, and what exactly are the things that you can only think of that caused such a sugar coating of his performance? These are matters that require further clarification/elaboration.

[Mofra]

I take exception to the idea that somehow he had got a game based on other than merit. This is a slur on the coaches and there professional capacities that I don't want to contemplate, especially from a respected and senior member of this board.
I understand your point, however you wouldn't think that perhaps some debuts are awarded to give a player a real idea of what it takes to play at the highest level (ie for developmental reasons)?

It worked for Hill, Reid appears to be working very hard, Grant would have an idea of how much he needs to improve his fitness. Stack would appear to be in the same boat, given he was one of the worst Bulldog-listed players to play for Williamstown in the week prior to his debut.

I'd be surprised (well, I hope) if Stack didn't have a big pre-season at the end of this year, and I'd say the debut might be an additional motivating factor.

In that respect, I'd argue that the coaching / development staff know exactly what they're doing.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The real test for Stack comes over the remainder of this season.

I'd expect him to go back into the VFL and put up some strong performances. If he continues how he's been performing up until now, then he's going to struggle to make it.

If he can string some solid performances at Willy together, have another big pre-season, perhaps he could emerge next year.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think Stack was dreadful neither do I think he was very good.
Did what I expected from a guy playing his first game.

[alwaysadog]

I understand your point, however you wouldn't think that perhaps some debuts are awarded to give a player a real idea of what it takes to play at the highest level (ie for developmental reasons)?

It worked for Hill, Reid appears to be working very hard, Grant would have an idea of how much he needs to improve his fitness. Stack would appear to be in the same boat, given he was one of the worst Bulldog-listed players to play for Williamstown in the week prior to his debut.

I'd be surprised (well, I hope) if Stack didn't have a big pre-season at the end of this year, and I'd say the debut might be an additional motivating factor.

In that respect, I'd argue that the coaching / development staff know exactly what they're doing.

Moffra I know what you are saying and it is reasonable and well argued, but even in the circumstances you describe the player has had to earn such consideration, so it doesn't deal with the substance of my query to SS.

Eade has said frequently in his time with us that form in the affiliate is only one of the factors that are taken into account when contemplating promotion, performance on the track rates very highly in such considerations. In fact I think we debuted a player straight from or one week out of Werribee seconds because we couldn't get him time in the firsts.

SS comments were much more global in their scope and intimated other dimensions that he needs to respond to.

[alwaysadog]

I don't think Stack was dreadful neither do I think he was very good.
Did what I expected from a guy playing his first game.

There was a call for perspective on this topic and Ernie you have provided it.

[Desipura]

Things are either black or white with SS although we know he bleeds red white and blue!
Stacks debut was not quiet a Glenn Trimble type debut as SS stated (remember his wayward bowling, ended with 80 odd runs off 10 overs in his only game). Given Jack Watts was a number 1 pick, wonder what you thought of his debut against Collingwood?

[Mofra]

but even in the circumstances you describe the player has had to earn such consideration, so it doesn't deal with the substance of my query to SS.
That's a fair point; if I remember correctly before Hill debuted, it was described as as much about reward for effort on the track as opposed to VFL form.

I haven't been to training so I can only assume Stacky had done some hard yards on the track which contributed to his selection.

[Mantis]

I haven't been to training so I can only assume Stacky had done some hard yards on the track which contributed to his selection.

I can't really see how this could be the case.

Listening to Tom Harley last night on 'One week at a time' he explained that Geelong's training sessions are all about recovery with sharp skill sessions thrown in later in the week. Barry Hall backed him up and said Sydney's training sessions are pretty much the same. I would think our training would be the same especially taking into consideration the number of 6 day turnarounds with have had this year. So you would think that it would be pretty hard for a player to really bust his arse at training as the sessions wouldn't be run to allow it.

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

[The Coon Dog]

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

I think you're right there.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Well SS you clearly put the lie to that football proverb, but I'm not sure you have not gone overboard about the negativities especially when comparing it to the worst ever first games. Did you actually mean that or were you just creating a dramatic effect to balance the over enthusiasm of some.

Perhaps you should answer your own question; "Can we have some perspective here?" because perspective seemed to be lacking in your post.

FWIW I think there were both positives and negatives to his efforts on Friday night and I've seen players who became regulars start far worse.


Perhaps I have gone too hard on him but my intention was to repond to earlier posts rather than to attack Stack.

* He did fumble, though, a lot.
* He did cause 4 clangers.
* He did blow a gimme goal because he wasn't prepared to put his head over it and pick it up (I suspect this had more to do with the perception of how little time he had rather than any bravery issue, it just looked bad)
* Without having seen the replay yet I guess every possesion that wasn't a clanger was either received sideways or given off sideways.
* While playing forward I don't remember him leading at the ball carrier a single time.


Compare his first game to that of Tim Walsh. Walsh finished with 3 touches, 3 marks and a goal. All of Walsh's marks were presenting at the ball carrier and while his output wasn't much I was actually more encouraged by his first outing than Stack's.


I appreciate it was Brennan's his first game but you are either playing AFL or you are not. His contribution counts as much on the scoreboard as anyone else's and we don't get a 2 goal start because we're playing a first gamer. That performance would have been considered completely unacceptable from any other player in the side.




Excatly what are you suggesting, that somehow he got preferred treatment, and what exactly are the things that you can only think of that caused such a sugar coating of his performance? These are matters that require further clarification/elaboration.

Preferred treatment? Absolutely not.

We occassionally give players a debut game well before their form warrants it. Tim Walsh being the most obvious example, but plenty of others have as well. Jarrod Harbrow got promoted almost from VFL seconds. Hill and Lynch weren't exactly setting the house on fire in the VFL back in 2007.

I have no problem with this strategy, but you can't expect a kid who is only doing so-so in the VFL to step up to the plate in the AFL. It's simply not a realistic expectation.



Given Jack Watts was a number 1 pick, wonder what you thought of his debut against Collingwood?

Didn't see a minute of it.

[alwaysadog]

I can't really see how this could be the case.

Listening to Tom Harley last night on 'One week at a time' he explained that Geelong's training sessions are all about recovery with sharp skill sessions thrown in later in the week. Barry Hall backed him up and said Sydney's training sessions are pretty much the same. I would think our training would be the same especially taking into consideration the number of 6 day turnarounds with have had this year. So you would think that it would be pretty hard for a player to really bust his arse at training as the sessions wouldn't be run to allow it.

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

I agree with the latter point which really supports my contention that there are more ways to earn a game than performance with the affiliate side alone.

As regards the former point there are a range of guys who talk frequently with the coach and ought to be more expert than I am about his approach to such matters. I probably get a brief chance once or twice a season, in a very good year.

Surprisingly we don't talk about the weather and when it comes to the younger not yet established players he will frequently refer to those who can do what he calls "amazing things on the track". Now he's the coach and I guess he ought to know who he is talking about, because he is at least to my understanding in charge of those events. It would be a strange thing to say if there was no opportunity to display anything while there.

It's about 5 weeks since I had my annual chat but one of the two players he referred to in that category was Brennan. Now I don't live inside Rocket's mind as some do in the case of Brian, but I'd say he is a fairly logical person.

[aker39]

Didn't see a minute of it.

Didn't miss much

[Mofra]

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.
That was what I was alluding to earlier, however if a player isn't training well nor committed to the recovery sessions I doubt he'd get a debut when his VFL form isn't great either.

[alwaysadog]

Perhaps I have gone too hard on him but my intention was to repond to earlier posts rather than to attack Stack.
Preferred treatment? Absolutely not.
I have no problem with this strategy, but you can't expect a kid who is only doing so-so in the VFL to step up to the plate in the AFL. It's simply not a realistic expectation.

Thanks SS your whole post makes sense and covers all the matters that I thought you left hanging in your earlier post. I only edited here to save space.

[Mantis]

* While playing forward I don't remember him leading at the ball carrier a single time.

Compare his first game to that of Tim Walsh. Walsh finished with 3 touches, 3 marks and a goal. All of Walsh's marks were presenting at the ball carrier and while his output wasn't much I was actually more encouraged by his first outing than Stack's.

Considering Brennan has played most of this year across HB do you think it was a mistake to start him off in the forwardline? Personally it would have been nice to ease him into the game playing in a role he has played reasonably well in this year.



I appreciate it was Brennan's his first game but you are either playing AFL or you are not. His contribution counts as much on the scoreboard as anyone else's and we don't get a 2 goal start because we're playing a first gamer. That performance would have been considered completely unacceptable from any other player in the side.



But all that depends on what your expectations of him were before the game started. I don't think anyone expected Brennan to come out and blitz in his first game.

[Cyberdoggie]

Watching Brennan in the vfl i certainly didn't think he would have a good debut.
He had an awful debut in the Williamstown seniors against Port Melbourne. If you look up "butter fingers" in the dictionary it now refers to Brennan in that game.

Brennan seems to be the type of player that needs to settle. Perhaps he's particularly nervous, but he requires several games to fit in.

I think it would be a mistake to drop hiim after 1 game. He should play against Port in Darwin (a ground where he played a good game for the Allstars earlier in the year!)
and then he should be given a spell at the break to resume at Willy.

If we drop him now he will learn nothing, and he possibly may not be given another chance.

[The Coon Dog]

If we drop him now he will learn nothing, and he possibly may not be given another chance.

If you retain him this week & Murphy is fit, who makes way then?

[aker39]

If you retain him this week & Murphy is fit, who makes way then?

Tiller

[Mofra]

Tiller
Who'd play on Westoff?

[Desipura]

Murphy in line for Dogs' Power clash (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5154)


According to this article Fantasia seems to think Stack did enough to get a game this week.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Murphy in line for Dogs' Power clash (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5154)


According to this article Fantasia seems to think Stack did enough to get a game this week.

You didn't really expect Fantasia to come out and say how bad he was, did you?

[bornadog]

If you retain him this week & Murphy is fit, who makes way then?

Gilbee, needs to rest his bruised foot

[G-Mo77]

Murphy in line for Dogs' Power clash (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5154)


According to this article Fantasia seems to think Stack did enough to get a game this week.

He also said this.

"In saying that, we've still got to pick a side this week that can beat Port Adelaide, who are coming off a good win ... [Stack’s] done enough to keep his spot; it's just a matter of who he's up against."

I'd like to keep Stack in for another week because he just looked so nervous in his first game and shouldn't be as nervous on Saturday night but it looks to me that Murphy will be in Stack will be out which will probably be the only change.

[bornadog]

* While playing forward I don't remember him leading at the ball carrier a single time.

I noticed several times he was on his own and yelling for the pass. So if he played the same game but kicked say two goals, you would change your opinion?

[Mantis]

I noticed several times he was on his own and yelling for the pass. So if he played the same game but kicked say two goals, you would change your opinion?

Sounds a little bit like Jarrod Grant's debut game.

[Topdog]

Murphy for Stack.
Welsh for Tiller??

[mighty_west]

You didn't really expect Fantasia to come out and say how bad he was, did you?

No you wouldn't, although i don't think has was as bad as some suggest, he certaintly didn't set the world on fire either, but showed some good signs, i think some people tent to over anylise things just a tad.

[Mofra]

I noticed several times he was on his own and yelling for the pass.
Which is exactly the wrong thing to do - we play a forward structure that relies on movement to bring the ball in. Minson is on record saying he needs to learn to lead better because we don't employ a stay at home forward.

[Mantis]

Which is exactly the wrong thing to do - we play a forward structure that relies on movement to bring the ball in. Minson is on record saying he needs to learn to lead better because we don't employ a stay at home forward.

So your saying that when he is alone he should move around to either:

a/ push closer to the boundary line which makes it a tougher shot on goal if he receives the ball

OR

b/ move closer to the opposition players such that he is longer alone?

I have no problems at all in a playing calling for the ball if he is standing alone inside F50.

[bornadog]

Murphy for Stack.
Welsh for Tiller??

many have said that, but who plays on Tredrea and who plays on Westhoff?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I noticed several times he was on his own and yelling for the pass. So if he played the same game but kicked say two goals, you would change your opinion?

Seeing nearly every time he went near it he fumbled, if they had passed to him twice and he dropped the mark both times would you still say he played well?

Same, same. I don't count on whatifs.

PS. I don't remember a single time where I thought to myself, "Damn, he should have given that off to Stack"

[Dazza]

I thought the most encouraging thing about stacks game on the weekend was his commitment and endeavour to get involved in contests. For a first gamer I thought he did alright without setting the world on fire.

[LostDoggy]

Exactly. It is only very rarely that a first gamer wows people and even then it is usually only one or two things they do eg they may kick a good goal.

I remember playing my first game in the A's for my club, it was a huge step up in terms of speed and physicality and I found it very difficult to get into the game despite playing in the midfield. I didn't even have the same sort of crowd and pressure to contend with.

I like the 20 game rule that has been referenced on here quite a few times. After 20 games they are fair game, criticism can flow like beer at an open bar. But till then we should reserve our judgement somewhat, not much can be taken from a first game.

I like to think we don't really know how good a player will be until the get to atleast 50 games for me. Of course this depends on wether they are good enough to get to that many in the first place.

[comrade]

I like to think we don't really know how good a player will be until the get to atleast 50 games for me. Of course this depends on wether they are good enough to get to that many in the first place.

What the?

[Mofra]

So your saying that when he is alone he should move around to either:

a/ push closer to the boundary line which makes it a tougher shot on goal if he receives the ball

OR

b/ move closer to the opposition players such that he is longer alone?

I have no problems at all in a playing calling for the ball if he is standing alone inside F50.
I didn't see him alone in the F50 all night I saw him next to an opponent, and we onyl kick to one on ones if there is no other option.
This is what makes Aker such a great assist player - he kicks to make the forward meet the drop of the ball, and a player on the move is a greater chance of meeting the drop of teh ball with a break on an opponent.

In any case when you are being manned up (or the opposition is playing a zone defence) you need to lead & move to attack the ball to provide an option for teammates upfield.

[alwaysadog]

I didn't see him alone in the F50 all night I saw him next to an opponent, and we onyl kick to one on ones if there is no other option.
This is what makes Aker such a great assist player - he kicks to make the forward meet the drop of the ball, and a player on the move is a greater chance of meeting the drop of teh ball with a break on an opponent.

In any case when you are being manned up (or the opposition is playing a zone defence) you need to lead & move to attack the ball to provide an option for teammates upfield.

You must have missed it because I recall at least one occasion when I thought he was loose, will need to see if the tape picks it up, but Aker is particularly good at getting into good positions on his own and being ignored, even by the captain. So its not unknown for this to happen. You're surely not saying that you think it's a team rule to do so.

[alwaysadog]

Seeing nearly every time he went near it he fumbled, if they had passed to him twice and he dropped the mark both times would you still say he played well?

Same, same. I don't count on whatifs.

PS. I don't remember a single time where I thought to myself, "Damn, he should have given that off to Stack"

SS I usually like your posts and I enjoy the chance to exchange counter views, but you seem to find it impossible to find one thing that Stack did, other than breathing, that was positive, and you seem in a mood to accuse him of wasting oxygen when he did that. I know your style is to be all one or the other but is it appropriate to deny any positives to a young player? Furthermore it's not like you to not encourage someone, we seem agreed to think, that the coach wants to be part of our future.

[Topdog]

many have said that, but who plays on Tredrea and who plays on Westhoff?

Lake and Hargrave.

[Topdog]

Was it Stack who took the mark that injured Delidio?

[bornadog]

Lake and Hargrave.

Westhoff = 199cm, Hargrave = 190cm

I don't think it will work

[Topdog]

Westhoff = 199cm, Hargrave = 190cm

I don't think it will work

Westhoff is a stick figure who is unable to use his height effectively yet. I'd be willing to take the risk. Anyway who is to say that Tiller would be a better matchup for Westhoff? Tiller is what 192-3cm?

[Sockeye Salmon]

SS I usually like your posts and I enjoy the chance to exchange counter views, but you seem to find it impossible to find one thing that Stack did, other than breathing, that was positive, and you seem in a mood to accuse him of wasting oxygen when he did that. I know your style is to be all one or the other but is it appropriate to deny any positives to a young player? Furthermore it's not like you to not encourage someone, we seem agreed to think, that the coach wants to be part of our future.

The best thing he did all night was jump at that high ball - I thought it was actually a mark.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Watched the first quarter again tonight.

Laid a tackle on Tambling, Tambling got it away though.

Made a good lead but Newman read it well and cut it off.

Dropped a handball from Gia (under pressure)

Won a loose ball and fed off a handball to Higgins that ended in a goal to Aker (via Gia).

Bad fumble right on 1/4 time on Richmond's 50 - saved by the bell.

[bornadog]

Westhoff is a stick figure who is unable to use his height effectively yet. I'd be willing to take the risk. Anyway who is to say that Tiller would be a better matchup for Westhoff? Tiller is what 192-3cm?

I would drop Tiller and bring in Everitt.

[bornadog]

Watched the first quarter again tonight.

Laid a tackle on Tambling, Tambling got it away though.

Made a good lead but Newman read it well and cut it off.

Dropped a handball from Gia (under pressure)

Won a loose ball and fed off a handball to Higgins that ended in a goal to Aker (via Gia).

Bad fumble right on 1/4 time on Richmond's 50 - saved by the bell.

Ok SS, you made your point. :p

All we are saying is its his first game, it was an ok debut and there is potential there and time will tell.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ok SS, you made your point. :p

All we are saying is its his first game, it was an ok debut and there is potential there and time will tell.

It doesn't matter what his first game was like anyway, it's the next 200 I'm more interested in.



PS. I've watched the 2nd quarter now too, would you like my play-by-play review?

[Desipura]

In a roundabout sort of way I think SS realises he was wrong (will never admit it) when he said that Stack did not do one positive thing on the night.
Then backtracked and said The best thing he did all night was jump at that high ball - I thought it was actually a mark.

[Mantis]

PS. I've watched the 2nd quarter now too, would you like my play-by-play review?

Yes please.

And why stop at just a critique of Stack's game. Can you run your eye over the rest of them for us as well?

[bornadog]

112 responses to Stacks debut, must have been a good one:D

[Mofra]

112 responses to Stacks debut, must have been a good one:D
By that logic, Eagleton is our greatest ever player :p

[Scorlibo]

What makes Stack's debut any better than Grant's? Grant was dropped the following game after winning just 8 touches, Stack did the same except he has been on the list a year longer and is not a tall.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yes please.

And why stop at just a critique of Stack's game. Can you run your eye over the rest of them for us as well?

Stack's 2nd quarter was easy because he hardly ever appears on screen. I've no idea how much of it he actually spent on the ground.

HB recieve (stationary), 1m HB
HB recieve (stationary), 1m HB


There you go, that was it.

He actually appears on screen another half dozen times but doesn't contribute anything else.

[G-Mo77]

Stack's 2nd quarter was easy because he hardly ever appears on screen. I've no idea how much of it he actually spent on the ground.

HB recieve (stationary), 1m HB
HB recieve (stationary), 1m HB


There you go, that was it.

He actually appears on screen another half dozen times but doesn't contribute anything else.

OK we get your point. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you are taking pleasure (Seems that way) in running down a first gamer. I'd rather a microscope thrown on some senior footballers at times. A first gamer is just an easy target. Pretty poor form SS, I expected better from you.

[Desipura]

OK we get your point. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you are taking pleasure (Seems that way) in running down a first gamer. I'd rather a microscope thrown on some senior footballers at times. A first gamer is just an easy target. Pretty poor form SS, I expected better from you.
Dont expect better from SS, that way you wont be disappointed :D
Seriously have low expectations then you might be surprised, its worked for me following the doggies for 31 years!

[Mofra]

OK we get your point. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you are taking pleasure (Seems that way) in running down a first gamer. I'd rather a microscope thrown on some senior footballers at times. A first gamer is just an easy target. Pretty poor form SS, I expected better from you.
If you want an opinion on someone else, start a thread on someone else then.

I don't think having an opinion on a player who had 4 effective disposals on the night, and who will no doubt learn from the experience (and hopefully it will hasten his development) is necessarily a destructive point.

I don't see the point in standing around in a apoplexic fit and declaring a great debut by a kid who clearly is in the developmental stage of his career and has some areas of his football to work on. If Stack turns into a gun impact player and forces his way into our best 22 in 2010, will people still be upset by a negative review of his first game?

FWIW I didn't think Hill's debut was very good either, I also think he's in our best 22 right now and will continue to improve next year. An opinion on someone's first game doesn't mean they will be denegraded for the rest of their career (although Gia & Eagle might argue with me on the last point).

[The Coon Dog]

OK we get your point. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you are taking pleasure (Seems that way) in running down a first gamer. I'd rather a microscope thrown on some senior footballers at times. A first gamer is just an easy target. Pretty poor form SS, I expected better from you.

I don't think you do, get the point, that is.

Sockeye's criticisms as I see it were more at some of the earlier posters portrayed Stack's debut into something it was not, rather than the lad himself.

Let's all take the rose coloured glasses off for just a moment. It was fantastic that we had a youngster debut, but it was not by any stretch of the imagination a great game by Brennan Stack, most debuts aren't.

He'll be better for the experience, hopefully nowhere near as nervous & will show the freakish skills he often shows at training, but not so much on game day.

[LostDoggy]

Stack-dawg.

[bornadog]

Stack-dawg.

Please elaborate what this means?

[LostDoggy]

Please elaborate what this means?

It's my nickname for Stack.

STACK-DAWG.

[G-Mo77]

If you want an opinion on someone else, start a thread on someone else then.

:rolleyes: Oh please!

My point is that it is not real fair to put a first gamer under the microscope. If you put every player under the microscope you are going to see errors. We have gotten a play by play of nearly everything he did on Friday which I think is very harsh. You had no problem earlier in the year ripping a first gamer while playing the "I told You so" card so I see why you defend it.


I don't see the point in standing around in a apoplexic fit and declaring a great debut by a kid who clearly is in the developmental stage of his career and has some areas of his football to work on. If Stack turns into a gun impact player and forces his way into our best 22 in 2010, will people still be upset by a negative review of his first game?

All I have said about his game on Friday is that he looked nervous and would like to see him get another shot more settled. There aren't exactly rave reviews about his first game in this thread either, no one has declared it was a great debut either. Stop exaggerating to try and make your point look that little bit more important.


I don't think you do, get the point, that is.

Sockeye's criticisms as I see it were more at some of the earlier posters portrayed Stack's debut into something it was not, rather than the lad himself.

Let's all take the rose coloured glasses off for just a moment. It was fantastic that we had a youngster debut, but it was not by any stretch of the imagination a great game by Brennan Stack, most debuts aren't.

Again I haven't read any rave reviews on his debut in this thread, I really don't think many are looking through Rose Coloured Glasses TCD. Maybe I don't get the point he's trying to make. I don't see the point in focusing on everything a first gamer does and picking out the mistakes just to say "I Told you so" to a few people on a forum.

[Cyberdoggie]

I don't think you do, get the point, that is.

Sockeye's criticisms as I see it were more at some of the earlier posters portrayed Stack's debut into something it was not, rather than the lad himself.

Let's all take the rose coloured glasses off for just a moment. It was fantastic that we had a youngster debut, but it was not by any stretch of the imagination a great game by Brennan Stack, most debuts aren't.

He'll be better for the experience, hopefully nowhere near as nervous & will show the freakish skills he often shows at training, but not so much on game day.

Well said

[Mofra]

:rolleyes: Oh please!
Was there a "positive review only" disclaimer on this thread? :rolleyes::eek:


My point is that it is not real fair to put a first gamer under the microscope. If you put every player under the microscope you are going to see errors. We have gotten a play by play of nearly everything he did on Friday which I think is very harsh. You had no problem earlier in the year ripping a first gamer while playing the "I told You so" card so I see why you defend it.
A differing opinion was offered, and half the board went into a fit that anyone would dare suggest a debut was anything other than a raging success. Would you expect someone to back up their claims or just stop posting? I would prefer to hear another opinion, even if I disagree with it.

This place would be fairly boring if only one point of view was offered on every issue, as much as a few people seem to be sensitive over any difference of opinion.

If you want to refer back to the Grant issue, I mentioned he looked unfit before anyone posted information from Rocket, and I was after an explanation of why people thought his debut was good, and why a skinny unfit kid would develop faster in the AFL than in the VFL. If the issue is so important to you, perhaps you'd like to address the issue now (you know, play the ball instead of the man)?

[The Adelaide Connection]

Holy batshit batman, this thread is going to be bigger than the Eagleton one soon. Unless of course Eagleton has a bad game, I am guessing the haters will come back out of the woodwork faster than Richmond supporters with a bit of preseason Cousins fever ;)

[LostDoggy]

Watched the first quarter a gain tonight.

Laid a tackle on Tambling, Tambling got it away though.

Made a good lead but Newman read it well and cut it off.

Dropped a handball from Gia (under pressure)

Won a loose ball and fed off a handball to Higgins that ended in a goal to Aker (via Gia).

Bad fumble right on 1/4 time on Richmond's 50 - saved by the bell.

You forgot to mention his nervous enthusiasm and his willingness to make a contest at every opportunity

Look forward to your next one Brennan

PS. Love your other posts SS

[G-Mo77]

A differing opinion was offered, and half the board went into a fit that anyone would dare suggest a debut was anything other than a raging success. Would you expect someone to back up their claims or just stop posting? I would prefer to hear another opinion, even if I disagree with it.

This place would be fairly boring if only one point of view was offered on every issue[/B], as much as a few people seem to be sensitive over any difference of opinion

Half the board? Raging Success? once again you're exaggerating. A few people said it was a little harsh and I agreed with that. I'll say it again, you quote my post why don't you take the time to read it. I have not seen any rave reviews about Stack's debut on here. Show me one. There was never any need to over analyse Stack's (Did I mention it was his first game :D) game on Friday, it was poor form.

I've made my points, and quite clearly Mofra go back and read them.


Was there a "positive review only" disclaimer on this thread? :rolleyes::eek:

What were you saying about play the ball instead of the man?

[Mofra]

I'll say it again, you quote my post why don't you take the time to read it. I have not seen any rave reviews about Stack's debut on here.
Take a look from the start of the thread then. Comments on brilliant position, attack, etc. etc. A couple of people disagreed and all of a sudden people think there's a vendetta against the kid. Is there an age limit on criticism?

I didn't see anyone "taking pleasure in running down a first gamer" either as you said.


A few people said it was a little harsh and I agreed with that.
No, you said people were taking pleasure in running him down. Very different.


There was never any need to over analyse Stack's (Did I mention it was his first game :D) game on Friday, it was poor form.
Nobody analysed his game until they were challenged. Again, you seem to have ignored points made above.


What were you saying about play the ball instead of the man?
How you can possibly take a comment on the thread as a personal attack on anyone is baffling.

[Topdog]

Take a look from the start of the thread then. Comments on brilliant position, attack, etc. etc. A couple of people disagreed and all of a sudden people think there's a vendetta against the kid. Is there an age limit on criticism?
.

Not that I care either way but brilliant position and attack are hardly what I would call rave reviews

[Mofra]

Not that I care either way but brilliant position and attack are hardly what I would call rave reviews
Fair point, I'll concede I may have exaggerated a little.
In any sense, I think this thread is getting a bit derailed by the fact that there is some sort of unspoken rule that first gamers are beyond criticism.
I don't agree with that, but I'm not sure this thread & discussion is productive anymore.

[comrade]

Fair point, I'll concede I may have exaggerated a little.
In any sense, I think this thread is getting a bit derailed by the fact that there is some sort of unspoken rule that first gamers are beyond criticism.
I don't agree with that, but I'm not sure this thread & discussion is productive anymore.

Yeah, it’s getting a little too much like lawyers squabbling over fine print.

It wasn’t a great game, even for a debut, but he showed enough in his ability to make repeated efforts and his desire to create a contest that, that if it all clicks he can become a good player.

I’m more interested in how he’ll play when he inevitably goes back to Williamstown. Will he take what he has learnt and build upon it like Ward, or will he drop his head like I fear Grant has done?

[Twodogs]

I thought Gia did good!

[Mofra]

I’m more interested in how he’ll play when he inevitably goes back to Williamstown. Will he take what he has learnt and build upon it like Ward, or will he drop his head like I fear Grant has done?
I'm hoping he follows a Hill path more than anything else- Hill wasn't setting the world on fire when he won his debut, but his story reads pretty well since then.

FWIW I still thought Grant showed a very clean pair of hands in his debut, even if his fitness & body aren't there yet. I'd expect him to play a few more games in the seniors next year.

[comrade]

I'm hoping he follows a Hill path more than anything else- Hill wasn't setting the world on fire when he won his debut, but his story reads pretty well since then.

FWIW I still thought Grant showed a very clean pair of hands in his debut, even if his fitness & body aren't there yet. I'd expect him to play a few more games in the seniors next year.

It’s his performances since returning to Williamstown that have concerned me.

[Mofra]

It’s his performances since returning to Williamstown that have concerned me.
2 weeks ago he wasn't too bad. He really is the sort of player than needs to develop a fitness base because he times his leads fairly well and has such sticky hands, he could do alot of damge at senior level. He certainly has the ability but really seems to put pressure on himself.
I get the feeling that the high expectations some people have of him are at least matched by the expectations he has of himself.

[G-Mo77]

Is there an age limit on criticism?

Well no, you choose to see it that way. I think they need some leeway though. People have far to much high expectations on kids nowdays. I really think people need to lower it a lot before criticising.


No, you said people were taking pleasure in running him down. Very different.

I didn't use a plural. I said SS seemed to be, it had nothing to do with you at all until now apparently. I still stand by what I said.


Nobody analysed his game until they were challenged. Again, you seem to have ignored points made above.

It was hardly challenged, as you said most people commented on position, attack, etc. etc. Again I'll stand by what I said, there was no need to over analyse his game and it was very harsh to do so.


How you can possibly take a comment on the thread as a personal attack on anyone is baffling.

Well in the context of the comment it was. You were insinuating that I can't handle a different opinion. That couldn't be further from the truth.

[aker39]

Please close this thread mods, I think it has run its race.

[LostDoggy]

Cool story Hansel.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I would like to formally apologise to Brennan Stack and his family for any pain or embarassment I may have caused.

I did not in any way intend to imply that he was an over-rated hack who will never make it, nor did I intend to imply he should be delisted or killed.





I thought Gia did good!

That made me smile.

[bornadog]

I would like to formally apologise to Brennan Stack and his family for any pain or embarassment I may have caused.

I did not in any way intend to imply that he was an over-rated hack who will never make it, nor did I intend to imply he should be delisted or killed.

Now that is funny:D

[Mofra]

Ditto. Now we can close the thread :p

[bornadog]

Ditto. Now we can close the thread :p

Till the next debut;)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/150708_Guy_OKeefe_training_246x.jpg

[Mofra]

Till the next debut;)

Touche'

Perhaps we need a board charter after all ;)

[Twodogs]

That made me smile.


:D


I thought we could all do with one...

[azabob]

Cool story Hansel.

Dante,

If you keep positing stuff like that we'll have to have a "walk off" to sort it out....