VCAT - Dogs club ‘vital’ - **new article update 09/02/10** [Archive]

BulldogBelle

16-06-2009, 10:30 PM

It's been awhile since we have had an update on the Bulldog Hilton....

Dogs club ‘vital’ (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/75913)
The Star
Charlene Gatt
16th June 2009

CLUB Edgewater is a necessary development for the Western Bulldogs’ survival, the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) has heard.

Legal counsel for the Bulldogs, Tattersalls and Prizac Developments Chris Townshend told VCAT that Club Edgewater was a proactive way of boosting revenue and attracting more members for the financially volatile club.

Mr Townshend told the tribunal the Bulldogs had a history of being “on the brink”.

He stressed the original Footscray Football Club was made up of Footscray residents and workers and the community had always rallied to keep the club afloat.

The proposed development includes a four-storey hotel, a cafe, a pokies venue with 70 machines, an outdoor bistro area that would face onto Skyline Drive and an outdoor members bar that would face the corner of Skyline Drive and Edgewater Boulevard bistro.

“This location is highly suitable for what’s proposed and it’s particularly suitable for the club. (It’s) a responsible way of managing gaming in the municipality,” Mr Townshend said.

“There is a real connection between the football club and the social fabric of the community.

“It’s probably a regrettable fact that so embedded are football clubs (like the Western Bulldogs) in the community…that they can be taken for granted.”

Residents who attended the opening day shook their heads in disgust and some openly laughed at the comments.

Legal counsel Ian Pitt, who is representing Henry and Niola Glowacki and other Edgewater residents, said it was neither the council nor the residents’ responsibility to “prop up the club”.

“(Western Bulldogs) players are not representatives of the western suburbs or Footscray at all. They come from all over Australia,” he said.

Residents Against Inappropriate Development in Maribyrnong (RAIDIM) spokesperson Margaret Rutherford told the hearing RAIDIM would not object to a smaller development that had no poker machines, had the right number of car parks and provided for the social fabric of the estate.

In a VCAT first, the tribunal is hearing two appeals at the same time.

The Bulldogs are appealing against Maribyrnong City Council’s decision to refuse the planning permit for the development, and the council is appealing the Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation’s decision to grant a gaming license.

The hearing continues this week. RAIDIM will make their submission to the tribunal on 22 June.

Go_Dogs

17-06-2009, 02:24 PM

And after the $50,000+ I can see the legal fees being for this, we'll need more pokies!

Honestly though, the residents seem to have a pretty weak argument. We are not designating them to 'prop up the club'. The fact is we are creating a development to earn revenue. The development has some unattractive aspects for the local residents and council, but will also offer some very attractive aspects - employment, shopping, restuarants etc.

Remi Moses

17-06-2009, 02:29 PM

I particulary like the line that the Western Bulldogs players don't represent the area.Bugger off :mad::mad:

SonofScray

20-06-2009, 08:49 AM

I particulary like the line that the Western Bulldogs players don't represent the area.Bugger off :mad::mad:

They're sort of correct. The players don't as individuals, but they are only a small facet in 100+ years of the Club which as a collective undoubtedly has in the past and will for many years to come. I am anti pokies but the arguments have been presented in that article are incredibly pedestrian.

MrMahatma

20-06-2009, 11:37 PM

They're sort of correct. The players don't as individuals, but they are only a small facet in 100+ years of the Club which as a collective undoubtedly has in the past and will for many years to come. I am anti pokies but the arguments have been presented in that article are incredibly pedestrian.
Where the players themselves come from is irrelevant. The club is a cornerstone of the local community, and locals support the club.

Look at EPL - drive around London and you'll pass through Arsenal - full of Arsenal fans, turn the corner and you're in Tottenham, full of Spurs fans, down the road into West Ham... their players come from all over the world, but the club still means loads to the local community.

Remi Moses

21-06-2009, 02:59 AM

ledge

21-06-2009, 10:16 AM

Yeah i cant agree more, they are still playing under the Western banner and as such represent the west.
I Wonder if the main person or all the people against it are from the west originally, that would kill the arguement , even if only one protester was born outside the west.
Bet they didnt think of that.

BulldogBelle

30-06-2009, 04:20 PM

Another update....

Dogs slam surveys (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/76585)
The Star News Group
30th June 2009

THE Western Bulldogs legal team has slammed council surveys opposing the Club Edgewater development, in week three of the Victorian Civil and Administrative (VCAT) appeal.

Legal counsel for the Bulldogs Nick Tweedie said two surveys to gauge community opinion “ignored” any future Club Edgewater customers living more than a kilometre from the development.

Maribyrnong City Council commissioned Metropolis Research to conduct two surveys concerning the proposed development, the second held after the Bulldogs upgraded their gaming license application from 65 machines to 70.

Between the two surveys, 68.7 per cent opposed the development and gaming application, 16 per cent supported it and six per cent supported it with amendments. Nine per cent remained undecided.

The survey found that only 1.2 per cent of the sample that supported the application did so because they followed the Bulldogs.

Mr Tweedie suggested the surveys were an inaccurate reflection of community sentiment and said the surveys should have replicated the wide customer base that a development like Club Edgewater was likely to attract.

“This is a gaming application …that proposes customers would be drawn from much farther than a one kilometre radius,” he said.

But Dale Hubner, the managing director of Metropolis Research, said a one-kilometre radius was standard practice for surveys of this kind.

Mr Hubner said social aspects surrounding the development, such as traffic and parking, would and could affect residents living in close proximity to the site, more so than residents living outside the one kilometre radius.

Mr Tweedie also pointed out that, despite the harsh opposition in the survey, City of Maribyrnong residents did not rank gambling as a top 20 issue in the most recent annual community survey.

Only 1.2 per cent of respondents nominated gambling as an issue.

Rejecting the Club Edgewater proposal also failed to make the top three of an Edgewater-specific survey.

Mr Tweedie said Edgewater residents tipped cafes, restaurants, bistros, conference centres and accommodation as priorities for the estate – the same features included in Club Edgewater.

Colleague Chris Townshend stressed that Club Edgewater would not be operating “on all cylinders” despite a 3am closing time.

Mr Townshend said it was likely there would be staggered closing times across the venue, with the gaming floor likely to be closed by 1am.

Bulldogs president David Smorgon, chief operating officer Robert Stubbs and Andrew Catterall from the AFL were expected to testify later in the week.

The hearing will end on 14 July.

BulldogBelle

07-07-2009, 09:25 PM

Another update...

Bulldogs to pay big bucks for pokies (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/76890)
The Star Newsgroup
Charlene Gatt | 7th July 2009

THE Western Bulldogs will have to pay up to $6.16 million by 2012 to buy poker machines and gaming entitlements for Club Edgewater.

In week four of the Club Edgewater VCAT hearing, Bulldogs chief operating officer Robert Stubbs said the club could comfortably cover the costs because changes to gaming legislation in 2012 would also triple Club Edgewater’s revenue.

The changes will mean venue operators will have to buy their own poker machines and pay a 10-year entitlement to the State Government.

The machines are expected to cost between $20,000 to $25,000 each, but the price of gaming entitlements per machine has been hotly debated.

In a witness statement to VCAT, Maribyrnong City Council witness Colin Gill predicted venue operators would have to pay about $63,000 per machine for a 10-year gaming entitlement.

But Mr Stubbs said the State Government had already put in place pre-entitlements for existing clubs with machines, ruling out the need for them to enter an auction process.

Mr Stubbs said clubs would be able to buy the machine entitlements at a pre-set price, which was expected to range from $25,000 to $50,000 per machine. Mr Stubbs said the Bulldogs would be able to afford the changeover because of the corresponding tripling of revenue.

Currently, any revenue from a gaming machine is split three ways – with the venue, the State Government and Tattersalls each getting a third of the total amount.

Under the new 2012 regime, the venue operator will receive 100 per cent of the revenue, but incurs the costs of buying the machines, the gaming entitlements, plus GST.

Venue operators also have to give the State Government 30 per cent of total revenue. Mr Stubbs told the hearing last week the Bulldogs were paying off a $5 million debt at about $300,000 a year.

The hearing will start this Thursday to allow an exchange of submissions, and all parties will present their closing arguments on 13 and 14 July.

The Bulldogs are appealing against Maribyrnong City Council’s decision to refuse the planning permit for the development, and the council is appealing the Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation’s decision to grant a gaming license.

Rocket Science

09-07-2009, 01:26 AM

The saga becomes curioser and curiouser.

===============================

Godwin Grech in Dogs pokie mystery (http://www.theage.com.au/national/godwin-grech-in-dogs-pokie-mystery-20090708-dder.html)

Royce Millar
July 9, 2009

"IT seems implausible that a senior public servant would commit matters to writing which were not accurate."

So declared Victoria's gaming authority last December, in reference to a letter from a federal public servant about a contentious plan by the Western Bulldogs for a new pokies venue.

And the name of the public servant? Godwin Grech.

Less than three weeks after Mr Grech wrote himself into Australian political history as the central player in "Utegate", The Age can reveal that the public servant has written his way into another political drama — this time over the Bulldogs' plan to build a gaming venue in Melbourne's western suburbs.

Mr Grech, a Bulldogs supporter, became involved in the gaming venue issue when he wrote a letter, at the request of club chief executive Campbell Rose, as part of the push to build the new venue near the Edgewater housing estate and the Highpoint shopping centre.

The Bulldogs have always claimed that a core condition of an $8 million grant from the former Howard government to redevelop their Whitten Oval base was that its pokies be relocated. Mr Grech's letter purports to confirm this.

But inquiries by The Age have indicated that no such condition exists — at least not in writing.

Mr Grech was working in former prime minister John Howard's department and was responsible for handling the Bulldogs' grant, when it was announced soon before the 2004 election.

Last November the Bulldogs tabled the Grech letter, on Treasury letterhead, at a hearing of the Commission for Gambling Regulation.

The Grech letter states that a "core condition" of the grant was relocating poker machines because the redeveloped Whitten Oval would include a child-care facility. "I cannot emphasise this enough — it was very important to the approvals process," Mr Grech's letter states.

Asked this week to identify documents containing the federal funding conditions, Mr Rose initially referred to an agreement between the Government and Bulldogs over the $8 million. But he said he could not comment on detail because of confidentiality. However, the Gambling Commission's written decision on the Edgewater licence in December specifically states that the Government-Bulldogs agreement is "silent" on the issue of gaming machines at Whitten Oval. Mr Rose later conceded the grant conditions might have been made verbally.

Other than Mr Grech, however, he could not identify another public servant able to verify even verbal discussions about the grant condition. After a five-year stint in the Prime Minister's office, Mr Grech moved back to his former job in Treasury in mid 2008.

Mr Rose denied manufacturing the condition with Mr Grech to strengthen the Bulldogs' claim for the licence.

The Greens have actively opposed the Edgewater project and have long been suspicious of the Bulldogs' claim that they had to move their poker machines. "Eight million dollars. You would have thought there would be something in writing," said local Greens MP Colleen Hartland.

She said the Bulldogs' football future was being used as an "emotional tool" to back a new and bigger pokies venue in the west, despite the area's serious gambling problems. Mr Grech could not be contacted.

The Age is not suggesting the Gambling Commission's licence decision hinged on the Mr Grech's letter alone. It was one of a range of matters that contributed to the granting of the licence.

Commission chairman Ian Dunn last night said that in hindsight he might have sought more detail from Mr Grech about the conditions attached to the federal funding.

"If we were duped by Godwin Grech so be it."

He stressed that he believed the Howard government had probably intended the gaming machines to be moved.

Maribyrnong Council is opposed to the new 70-machine Edgewater club being operated by Bulldogs partners, Tattersalls. It has challenged its gaming licence at the Victorian appeals tribunal. A decision is pending.

Victoria University is also investing $6 million on the Whitten Oval redevelopment and has confirmed that it had made it a condition that the club move its poker machines.

bulldogtragic

09-07-2009, 10:51 AM

What a curious story. As long as the club wins, i don't care. Good thing the former PM's helper was a WBFC fan and not another teams...

Sedat

21-07-2009, 06:28 PM

Another update....

Dogs slam surveys (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/76585)
The Star News Group
30th June 2009

The hearing will end on 14 July.

BUMP

Has there been any announcement following the conclusion of the VCAT hearing?

BulldogBelle

21-07-2009, 07:20 PM

BUMP

Has there been any announcement following the conclusion of the VCAT hearing?

Still not fully over as per the articles out today as listed below...

BulldogBelle

21-07-2009, 07:23 PM

Latest...

Hearing’s last hurdle (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/77514)
The Star News Group
Charlene Gatt | 21st July 2009

THE Club Edgewater planning appeal has wrapped up after a marathon six-week hearing – but it’s not over yet.

Legal counsel John Larkins, on behalf of Maribyrnong City Council and Edgewater residents, and Chris Townshend, on behalf of the Western Bulldogs, Tattersalls and Prizac Investments, tendered their closing submissions to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) last week.

But the hearing – which includes the Bulldogs’ appeal against Maribyrnong City Council for refusing a planning permit and the council’s appeal against the gaming licence – has been extended by one day to allow for closing submissions concerning the gaming matter.

The hearing will reconvene on 7 August for the tribunal to take into account changes to gaming legislation in 2012 and how this would affect Club Edgewater.

The Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation granted the Bulldogs a gaming licence for 70 machines last December.

Under the licence, 48 of the machines will be relocated from the Whitten Oval while the remainder will come from Yarraville Club, Powell Hotel, Club Leeds and Braybrook Tavern.

If approved, the Club Edgewater development would also see the removal of 11 machines from the municipality.

The Bulldogs have said Club Edgewater would reduce gaming expenditure in Maribyrnong by about $700,000 a year.

Under the new 2012 regime, gaming venue operators will receive 100 per cent of gaming revenue but have to purchase the machines, the gaming entitlements and give the State Government a 30 per cent cut.

Currently, any revenue from a gaming machine is split three ways – with the venue, the State Government and Tattersalls each getting a third of the total amount.

It means the Bulldogs will have to fork out up to $6.16 million by 2012 to purchase the 70 poker machines and 10-year gaming entitlements for Club Edgewater.

A decision on the appeals isn’t expected for weeks after the final hearing day.

BulldogBelle

21-07-2009, 07:26 PM

More...

The case for ... (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/77509)
The Star News Group
21st July 2009

- Bulldogs CEO Campbell Rose: “If the club was unable to find a suitable venue to which it can relocate the 48 gaming machines currently operating at the Whitten Oval and, accordingly, had to relinquish its right to operate those machines, the permanent loss of the revenue generating potential of those machines would have very significant implications for the club.”

- Bulldogs President David Smorgon: “For many years, our supporters and members have been asking why the club does not have a social facility of the standard other clubs enjoy…We will be able to hold functions, our best and fairest night and other club events at the Edgewater venue.”

- Bulldogs Chief Operating Officer Robert Stubbs: “Whilst we have continued to invest (and actually increased our investment) in Spirit West Services over the past few years (and as a result, reduced the club’s operating profits that may otherwise have been realised), this has been predicated on the belief that we would be able to readily find an alternative social venue location for the Whitten Oval gaming machines, and that, once this happened, our social club venue profits would grow. If the Edgewater facility is not approved…(we will have to) reduce our commitment.”

- Legal counsel Nick Tweedie: Two surveys conducted by Metropolis Research at the request of Maribyrnong City Council to gauge community opinion “ignored” any future Club Edgewater customers living more than a kilometre out from the development.

* The above statements have come from witness statements tendered at VCAT or have been said over the course of the hearing.

Sedat

07-08-2009, 03:35 PM

BUMP

The Club Edgewater VCAT hearing reconvenes today according to the above reports on July 21st. Would be great to have the final decision posted as soon as it is handed out.

BulldogBelle

07-08-2009, 07:47 PM

The Doggies have deeper pockets, more powerful friends in important places, more clout, more backers and more supporters than the local council and these residents

Dont worry, we will win this little war

Stefcep

07-08-2009, 07:58 PM

Topdog

07-08-2009, 10:04 PM

Thats what i love about democracy.

Ahh democracy, one of the greatest lies of the past century.

BulldogBelle

11-08-2009, 08:46 PM

Ok, here is the latest update....

High stakes pokies (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/78426)
Star News Group | Charlene Gatt | 11th August 2009

A VICTORIAN Commission for Gambling Regulation review and changes to gaming legislation in 2012 could see more poker machines removed from the City of Maribyrnong.

VCGR legal counsel Karin Emerton told a Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal the commission stood by last year’s decision to grant a 70-machine gaming license to the Western Bulldogs for the proposed Club Edgewater development.

Under the licence, 48 of the machines would be relocated from the Whitten Oval, while the remainder would come from Yarraville Club, Powell Hotel and Braybrook Tavern.

A total of 11 machines would be removed from the municipality.

Ms Emerton said the number of machines in the municipality could go down further post-2012 depending on how successful venue operators were during the bidding process for gaming machines and machine entitlements.

Under the new 2012 regime, gaming venue operators will receive 100 per cent of gaming revenue, but have to purchase the machines, the gaming entitlements, and give the State Government a 30 per cent cut.

Click HERE (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/78426) to read the remainder of the article...

LostDoggy

01-10-2009, 12:35 PM

Still no updates on the Bulldog Hillton?

BulldogBelle

01-10-2009, 07:47 PM

Still no updates on the Bulldog Hillton?

No nothing as yet Dex, no articles have surfaced since the last one I put up.

Mantis

16-12-2009, 10:30 AM

Reported on BF that we won our appeal with VCAT.

LostDoggy

16-12-2009, 04:38 PM

Anyone have any further news regarding this...??

Fantastic news if true!!

LostDoggy

16-12-2009, 08:06 PM

Anyone have any further news regarding this...??

Fantastic news if true!!
It is confirmned now on the club website, as it says this is fantastoc news for our club. All approved including pokies ((70), 300 seat function room, 50 hotel rooms. Can you imagine the patronage the hotel will get at Melbourne cup time, location. location.
2010 is it everything that is happening to the club is positive. The problems of those dark years is now a distant memory.

The Coon Dog

16-12-2009, 08:48 PM

Club Edgewater to open in 2011

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images_bulldogs/Copy%20of%20edge_water_246d.jpg

Today the Western Bulldogs Football Club were informed that the Victorian Civil & Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) had handed down their decision, giving appropriate Town Planning & related approvals to enable the construction of Club Edgewater.

Article in full... (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2009/news/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/88248/default.aspx)

comrade

16-12-2009, 09:04 PM

The strengthening of our ties to the community continues.

I'm looking forward to heading down to Edgewater to watch the Bulldogs when they play interstate.

LostDoggy

16-12-2009, 09:10 PM

The strengthening of our ties to the community continues.

I'm looking forward to heading down to Edgewater to watch the Bulldogs when they play interstate.
It will be great to have a "Home" to go for things like that.
Perhaps we all should go to the building site to celebrate our 2010 Premiership, and then have a more formal celebration when it is built in 2011.

The Coon Dog

16-12-2009, 10:27 PM

Council fails to block Bulldog Hilton

Damian Barret - From: Herald Sun - December 16, 2009 9:51PM

IT TOOK five years of messy legal wrangling, but the Western Bulldogs were yesterday given a resounding all clear to forge ahead with their lofty "Bulldog Hilton" concept.

The Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal found strongly in the Dogs' favour, and against Maribyrnong City Council, that the planned hotel, entertainment and gaming venue in Edgewater precinct be allowed to proceed.

The "Bulldog Hilton", about 2km from the Dogs' recently renovated Whitten Oval headquarters, will serve as the club's social base.

Article in full... (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/council-fails-to-block-bulldog-hilton/story-e6frf9jf-1225811139887)

FrediKanoute

17-12-2009, 12:17 AM

Where the players themselves come from is irrelevant. The club is a cornerstone of the local community, and locals support the club.

Look at EPL - drive around London and you'll pass through Arsenal - full of Arsenal fans, turn the corner and you're in Tottenham, full of Spurs fans, down the road into West Ham... their players come from all over the world, but the club still means loads to the local community.

and then you drive through Chelsea......and none of the fans can afford to live there

Remi Moses

17-12-2009, 05:44 AM

LostDoggy

17-12-2009, 08:44 AM

This is the bet news to come from the Dogs for a long, long time.

This gives us a real opportunity to become self-sufficient and gives great hope for the long term future of the Dogs.

Once again many thanks to the professionalism of Campbell Rose and the President.

LostDoggy

17-12-2009, 12:24 PM

Great news . The council has wasted 1.5 million of taxpayers money:rolleyes::rolleyes:Suppose they'll regain tat by slinging poor unsuspecting motorists that dare stop in Footscray

Yep...Most councils are a waste of time and money!! We (doggies fans and voters) should never forget the role the Greens played in this saga....pure political point scoring!! They owe us 18 months revenue from this development IMO!

LostDoggy

17-12-2009, 01:34 PM

For those that like details:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2009/2616.html

divvydan

17-12-2009, 04:25 PM

Prince Imperial

17-12-2009, 05:27 PM

It's a very strong decision in the club's favour.

Our planning application appears to have been approved with only minor further restrictions (the gaming room to be open only from 11am and for there to be no smokers' room nearby it). These seem to be sensible conditions to help alleviate problem gambling.

Of course, the Council could decide to appeal to the Supreme Court if they believe that there is an error of law in the Tribunal's reasoning. If they were successful, the matter would be returned to VCAT to be redetermined according to law. So its not necessarily all over red rover. Let us hope though sense prevails and that further rate payer funds (and ours) are not wasted by such a course of action.

comrade

17-12-2009, 05:35 PM

Of course, the Council could decide to appeal to the Supreme Court if they believe that there is an error of law in the Tribunal's reasoning. If they were successful, the matter would be returned to VCAT to be redetermined according to law. So its not necessarily all over red rover. Let us hope though sense prevails and that further rate payer funds (and ours) are not wasted by such a course of action.

I wouldn't put it past RAIDM to draw this out for as long as possible.

Prince Imperial

17-12-2009, 06:05 PM

I wouldn't put it past RAIDM to draw this out for as long as possible.

True, but they would have to come up with the big dollars to pay for the barristers and solicitors. And they would face the risk of costs being awarded against them if they were unsuccessful. It would be a huge gamble for a small association. I'm more concerned about the Council as for them it is the ratepayers money and not personally their own.

Remi Moses

18-12-2009, 05:55 AM

Yep...Most councils are a waste of time and money!! We (doggies fans and voters) should never forget the role the Greens played in this saga....pure political point scoring!! They owe us 18 months revenue from this development IMO!

Dear me the Greens!! Political crackpots the lot of them. I just love the Johnny Come lately's think they can use a long loved institute [Our Club] as apolitical football.Our football club has been around since 1883 you've been here for bloody five minutes!!!:mad:

LostDoggy

18-12-2009, 11:35 AM

Some points from the decision.

-The location and premises are appropriate for the location of gaming machines.

-The positive benefits of the proposal are that there will be no increase in the number of gaming venues in Maribyrnong. The number of gaming machines in highly disadvantaged areas are to be relocated to Edgewater a less disadvantaged area.

-There will be an overall reduction in gaming expenditure in the municipality. The venue will provide a social facility for the new suburb of Edgewater. The proposal will provide construction and ongoing employment benefits.

-The make up of the community will not change as a result of the presence of gaming at Edgewater as the residents currently live within close proximity to gaming venues.

There are a couple of other factors which helped us win this decision.

-The revised layout of the development addresses a number of amenity concerns raised by the residents in relation to car parking and noise.

-The gaming component within the venue is a small part of the overall facility. It is significant that the venue is to be a club rather than a hotel.

The two major arguments were over the pokie machines and to a lesser extent, the car parking. As you can see, we made some changes to the car parking and then the commission found that the net effect of the pokie machines weren't negative.

Er. Exactly what I said in a post 12 months ago.

What a waste of time and taxpayer dollars. Just finished working on a similar case out in the city of Monash (not on as large a scale of course) and VCAT also found the same. I've done work on both sides of the divide (for both councils and private developers) and sometimes common sense just isn't the order of the day -- I think ideals are important, but there has to be a balance between ideology and pragmatism, and in this case, the council was playing politics with the few local residents who had some weird ideological axe to grind.

Prince Imperial

18-12-2009, 01:26 PM

Reading the decison a bit closer today some things become apparent.

One of the key issues in the case was whether under the terms of the legislation "the net economic and social impact of the approval will not be detrimental to the community...". In fact, the Tribunal found "the positive impacts of the proposal outweigh features that may be detrimental to the well-being of the community". In other words, we more than met the key criterion for the transfer of the machines.

Another key issue was the adequacy of the carparking. The Tribunal in fact found that the number of spaces was "remarkably generous".

The Council have been absolutely walloped in this matter on all issues to which they objected and it really is a bad reflection on the competence of their town planning staff who prepared such strong advice that the proposal was unlawful and should not be approved. Though a different matter, it is further evidence that their objections to Vic Uni involvement in the Whitten Oval were also baseless.

It is very comforting to know the Council has been relieved of its responsibilities of our Oval.

The Coon Dog

18-12-2009, 01:31 PM

It is very comforting to know the Council has been relieved of its responsibilities of our Oval.

Perhaps the only downside is that the surface of the Whitten Oval is superb & the Council employees do a fantastic job maintaining it for the players.

When the club becomes responsible, they'll need to tender it out, so I hope in the future its maintained in the same manner.

Prince Imperial

18-12-2009, 01:51 PM

Perhaps the only downside is that the surface of the Whitten Oval is superb & the Council employees do a fantastic job maintaining it for the players.

When the club becomes responsible, they'll need to tender it out, so I hope in the future its maintained in the same manner.

Fair enough, though it may be the state govt agency as the overall manager of the land that does the tendering out of this function. I don't know really. Maybe the Council could put in a tender?

The Coon Dog

18-12-2009, 02:22 PM

I don't know really. Maybe the Council could put in a tender?
Now that would be ironic!

Twodogs

18-12-2009, 09:23 PM

Maybe the Council could put in a tender?

They wouldnt have the hide. Or the brains.

Maybe the crew who look after it now can form their own company and tender for the work.

Twodogs

18-12-2009, 09:34 PM

Rocco Jones

19-12-2009, 12:16 AM

Like Rohan Smith or Brad Johnson or Cal Ward dont come from the local area. Blokes like that represent us just fine.

Daniel Giansirausa is another. I think Dale Morris is a Western suburbs boy as well.

Sockeye Salmon

19-12-2009, 09:21 AM

Daniel Giansirausa is another. I think Dale Morris is a Western suburbs boy as well.

Doutta Stars.

So their are more players on our list from Adelaide than there are from Melbourne's west.

The Western Bulldogs - the team for all South Australians!!!!

Twodogs

19-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Doutta Stars.

So their are more players on our list from Adelaide than there are from Melbourne's west.

The Western Bulldogs - the team for all South Australians!!!!

Apples for apples would be Victorian V South Australians.

Any ideas on the numbers for that? I'd do it myself but little Lucy Joy Liberatore is looking over my shoulder asking when we are going to see the petting zoo in Footscray this morning-and she's the boss!

Sockeye Salmon

19-12-2009, 12:52 PM

Apples for apples would be Victorian V South Australians.

Any ideas on the numbers for that? I'd do it myself but little Lucy Joy Liberatore is looking over my shoulder asking when we are going to see the petting zoo in Footscray this morning-and she's the boss!

Why?

Is Lindsay Gilbee of Coldstream via Eastern Rangers a Western Suburbs boy?

FWIW, the state by state breakdown is:

VIC - 18
SA - 7
QLD - 7 (including Ben Hudson and Jason Akermanis, both of whom started off in Victoria until they were teenagers)
WA - 3
NSW - 3
TAS - 1
NT - 1

5 of our 6 rookies are Victorian (and Panos from SA).

Twodogs

19-12-2009, 01:43 PM

Why?

Is Lindsay Gilbee of Coldstream via Eastern Rangers a Western Suburbs boy?

No, not everyone is lucky enough to be a born westy mate.;)

Lindsay might be a hillbilly but Coldstream is still in Victoria. Are the population's of Adelaide and The West roughly similar? I think we have a better system in Victoria for identifying and developing talent as well so that could skew the figures.

BTW;

QLD - 7
WA - 3
NSW - 3

So Qld have provided us with more than twice as many players as WA? And we have just as many Queenslanders as Sandgropers? That's an interesting stat-Mike needs to lift his game...

Sockeye Salmon

19-12-2009, 08:59 PM

QLD - 7
WA - 3
NSW - 3

So Qld have provided us with more than twice as many players as WA? And we have just as many Queenslanders as Sandgropers? That's an interesting stat-Mike needs to lift his game...

Croweaters

ledge

20-12-2009, 10:22 AM

Umm whats this got to do with the VCAT decision?? :)

Twodogs

20-12-2009, 12:10 PM

Croweaters

My bad.

LostDoggy

20-12-2009, 03:16 PM

Great to hear. This will be an excellent place to watch the interstate games for those of us without foxtel.

Remi Moses

20-12-2009, 06:03 PM

Interesting the thread's turned into a parochial peeing competition. Very Big Footy:rolleyes:

LostDoggy

21-12-2009, 11:49 AM

Fair enough, though it may be the state govt agency as the overall manager of the land that does the tendering out of this function. I don't know really. Maybe the Council could put in a tender?

If it's currently a revenue stream for the Council you'll bet you ass they'll be putting a tender in, unless they have a ready-made replacement revenue stream somewhere else, because someone's job will depend on it.

It's amazing how quickly philosophical objections dissipate when the almighty dollar is involved.

Sedat

21-12-2009, 12:41 PM

If it's currently a revenue stream for the Council you'll bet you ass they'll be putting a tender in, unless they have a ready-made replacement revenue stream somewhere else, because someone's job will depend on it.

It's amazing how quickly philosophical objections dissipate when the almighty dollar is involved.
Never a truer word spoken. Hopefully we can utilise this advantage we now have over the council to get them working with us instead of against us for future projects. It ultimately doesn't really matter who is in the right or wrong (FWIW, I think the council has been reprehensible in their conduct by only serving such a tiny minority of their elected constituents in this case) but the continued banging of heads between the club and the council would better serve both parties if it ended and a fully cooperative approach between the two parties now took place. Let's hope that it does and that a smooth transition of future projects undertaken by the Bulldogs can now take place.

Club Edgewater is a wonderful result for the Bulldogs, and a major feather in the cap of Rose and Smorgon. It will also be a fantastic venue for young families in the area to enjoy a relaxed dinner or weekend lunch - similar venues in the east like the Veneto Club in Bulleen (which has pokies but you wouldn't know it unless you specifically sought them out) do incredible patronage because they have made their venues extremely family friendly (doesn't hurt that the Veneto has also nailed a quality food menu that remains affordable for families).

Unlike those dopey Magpies that tried their hand at managing seedy nightclubs and bars (with predicatbly disastrous results), it's good to see we have set the bar higher with the development of a multi-purpose venue that will provide the local community with a vibrant hub during daylight hours as well as evenings and weekends. The pokies will be a very minor part of the overall project, and as others have stated previously, people will find them if they want to play them irrespective of where they end up being located.

strebla

23-12-2009, 02:42 PM

As a long time member of the Western suburbs community it is a bout time we are able to call something like this development our very own.I have foxtel but would much prefer to watch the doggies play in a place like this as home just lacks the same feeling (i get told off a lof watching the games at home) well done to the dogs and shame on you Footscray council!!!

BulldogBelle

07-01-2010, 10:48 AM

There will be no appeal mounted on the Edgewater development decision, although the RADIM President will be objecting to the liquor licence application...

No appeal on Western Bulldogs’ Edgewater ruling (http://maribyrnong-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/no-appeal-on-western-bulldogs-edgewater-ruling/)
Maribyrnong Leader | Helen Jacobs | 07 Jan 2010

A SUPREME Court battle will not be mounted over the Western Bulldogs’ controversial Club Edgewater function centre development.

Maribyrnong Council said last week its lawyers had advised that appealing a decision by the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal to approve the venue, which would include 70 poker machines, was unlikely to succeed.

The number of poker machines is at the centre of opponents’ concerns.

Mayor Sel Sanli said the council would meet residents this month to discuss the VCAT decision, announced on December 15.

“Although the VCAT decision looks at ways of minimising the impact on neighbouring residents, I still believe more could be done,” Cr Sanli said. “We will be meeting with the residents in the New Year to see what other things can be put in place to reduce gambling in the area.”.

Residents Against Inappropriate Development in Maribyrnong (RADIM) president Enzo De Fazio said the group would not pursue its own court appeal due to financial and time constraints.

“Unfortunately we can’t go any further, but we will be objecting to the liquor licence application,” Mr De Fazio said. “We encourage anyone who feels they or their amenity will be affected detrimentally that they should consider objecting as well.”

Click HERE (http://maribyrnong-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/no-appeal-on-western-bulldogs-edgewater-ruling/) to read the remainder of the article...

comrade

07-01-2010, 11:03 AM

Victory!

Sedat

07-01-2010, 11:42 AM

Fantastic news. The irony of this protracted dispute is that Club Edgewater has the potential to become a vibrant family hub for the residents that were so vehemently opposed to it in the first place.

chef

07-01-2010, 05:38 PM

Victory!

About time:).

The Coon Dog

07-01-2010, 09:57 PM

2 articles in the Herald Sun:

Council won't appeal decision to approve Western Bulldogs development (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/council-wont-appeal-decision-to-approve-western-bulldogs-development/story-e6frf9io-1225816918663)

Council fails to block Bulldog Hilton (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/council-fails-to-block-bulldog-hilton/story-e6frf9jf-1225811139887)

Remi Moses

07-01-2010, 11:21 PM

I just don't get it why wasnt the council worried all those years ago when Highpoint and The Powell Hotel had pokies or Flemington for that matter. This just reeks of a couple of Blow-ins incessantly whinging

Topdog

08-01-2010, 11:47 AM

Did I read correctly that the council is still going to waste more time by objecting to the liqueur license now?

LostDoggy

08-01-2010, 12:00 PM

Did I read correctly that the council is still going to waste more time by objecting to the liqueur license now?

Correct.

ps. you forgot to mention wasting ratepayers' money as well. Any locals on here that have a view on that?

Prince Imperial

08-01-2010, 05:04 PM

Did I read correctly that the council is still going to waste more time by objecting to the liqueur license now?

The Maribyrnong Leader article listed earlier only indicated that RAIDIM, the resident's group, would object. I haven't seen anything saying they would.

If I was a ratepayer in that municipality, I would be very angry with that council.

http://www.themail.com.au/news/local/news/general/councils-legal-costs-soar/1660741.aspx

alwaysadog

08-01-2010, 05:57 PM

I love this bit.

"Council cannot provide any details on legal issues or legal cases undertaken by council's legal experts; this would be a clear breach of confidentiality that would compromise the integrity of the issues being managed."

It's pure Jeff Kennett: I believe in transparency except when I might look bad; in such circumstances it is clearly not in the public interest to be providing any information.

BulldogBelle

12-01-2010, 12:20 PM

I doubt the RADIM group would be too happy reading this article......

Western Bulldogs bid didn’t hurt Edgewater sales - developer (http://maribyrnong-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/western-bulldogs-bid-didn-t-hurt-edgewater-sales-developer/)
The Maribyrnong Leader | Andre Awadalla | Jan 12, 2010

THE real estate company selling homes in Maribyrnong’s Edgewater estate says property prices “remained strong” while the fate of the Western Bulldogs’ proposed function centre was being decided.

Delfin Lend Lease chief operating officer Bryce Moore said “several established properties” in the estate attracted sales prices of more than $1 million last year.

“We anticipate prices will continue to increase within Edgewater, given the shortage of future residential supply,” Mr Moore said.

Last month, the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal approved the construction of the Western Bulldogs’ controversial Club Edgewater, a function centre that will also have 70 poker machines.

The news came as a blow to the Residents Against Inappropriate Development in Maribyrnong group and Maribyrnong Council, which had opposed the plan.

Click HERE (http://maribyrnong-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/western-bulldogs-bid-didn-t-hurt-edgewater-sales-developer/) to read the remainder of the article....

Remi Moses

14-01-2010, 10:22 AM

What a sad lot they are still throwing their toys out of the cot. Maybe in light of recent happenings they might listen to local concerns and make Cruikshank park a safer place to walk in at night!! Ratepayers must be furious with the utter waste of their rates on this matter.

LostDoggy

14-01-2010, 05:00 PM

Has Michael Clark jumped ship?

BulldogBelle

09-02-2010, 10:24 PM

Maribyrnong City Council will not appeal decision ...

Backing out (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/85195)
Star News Group | Charlene Gatt | 9th February 2010

MARIBYRNONG City Council forked out more than $825,000 in legal fees to fight the Club Edgewater development, it has been revealed.

And in another blow to residents, the council has told Edgewater residents it will not appeal the Club Edgewater Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) decision in the Supreme Court despite having legal grounds to do so.

In a meeting last Wednesday, Maddocks lawyer Maria Marshall said the council had immediately looked into the prospect of an appeal after the decision was handed down on 16 December.

An appeal could only be made in the Supreme Court if the council lodged a request citing a vitiating error – that is, an error in law that is so significant it could have altered the decision – within 28 days of the decision being handed down.

Ms Marshall said the council had grounds to appeal because VCAT ruled the group of shops adjacent to the development site met only three of the four criteria for being a strip shopping centre.

The fourth point dictates that the land had to be zoned for business use. The land in question falls under a comprehensive development zone, which planning and property development manager John Karageorge said was a “holding zone” as the Edgewater estate built up.

“There was not great prospects of success. While we didn’t think it was completely hopeless…but we couldn’t see a strong prospect of success,” Ms Marshall said.

“There’s no guarantee or prospect that we were right or the Tribunal was wrong.”

Mr Karageorge admitted the Club Edgewater hearing had been the council’s most expensive case ever, with more than $825,000 spent on lawyers and expert witnesses on last year’s VCAT hearing and the 2008 Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation hearing.

He said a Supreme Court appeal would, conservatively, cost the council about $80,000 if they won, and double that if they lost.

Click HERE (http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/85195) to read the remainder of the article....