Dodged a bullet

[Remi Moses]

After witnessing the exploits of Russell Robertson this season can't help feeling we dodged a major disaster by him agreeing to stay at melbourne. The persistant diving and easily going to ground,the all about me attitude is something thanfully we missed out on

[AndrewP6]

Think you might be right there...

[The Coon Dog]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have. Who knows, by being at the Bulldogs he might have be a better player mentally & not needed to stage for frees. He would have seen alot more of the ball than he does at Melbourne.

[Mantis]

Having his achilles tendon rupture in the menatime hasn't helped his cause at all.

[Jasper]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have. Who knows, by being at the Bulldogs he might have be a better player mentally & not needed to stage for frees. He would have seen alot more of the ball than he does at Melbourne.

I dont think this is a question about hindsight because it was a bad idea at the time and one that reeked of desperation and a couple of years on it has proved to be godsend.The Remi Moses suggestion that we dodged a bullet is correct.

[The Coon Dog]

I dont think this is a question about hindsight because it was a bad idea at the time and one that reeked of desperation and a couple of years on it has proved to be godsend.The Remi Moses suggestion that we dodged a bullet is correct.

It didn't reek of desperation at all. There was the prospect of securing him via the PSD, the same PSD that enabled us to secure Scott Welsh, like for like if you will & that hasn't reeked of desperation.

Surely it's all about hindsight. If (& here's where hindsight comes into play) Robertson had been kicking bags of goals & standing on blokes heads we'd be bemoaning the fact that we didn't get him.

[Jasper]

It didn't reek of desperation at all. There was the prospect of securing him via the PSD, the same PSD that enabled us to secure Scott Welsh, like for like if you will & that hasn't reeked of desperation.

Surely it's all about hindsight. If (& here's where hindsight comes into play) Robertson had been kicking bags of goals & standing on blokes heads we'd be bemoaning the fact that we didn't get him.

He was old and injury prone and his best football long behind him and the fact that we even considered trading a high pick for him is indeed an act of desperation.He only even considered our offer as a bargaining chip anyway.Even if he had kicked 30 goals so far his season I wouldn't see him as the one who got away so its not hindsight for me.

[The Coon Dog]

He was old and injury prone and his best football long behind him and the fact that we even considered trading a high pick for him is indeed an act of desperation.He only even considered our offer as a bargaining chip anyway.Even if he had kicked 30 goals so far his season I wouldn't see him as the one who got away so its not hindsight for me.

We never ever considered trading a high pick for him. If we did get him, it would have been through the PSD.

[The Underdog]

We never ever considered trading a high pick for him. If we did get him, it would have been through the PSD.

Don't let the facts get in the way TCD.

I don't think we can make a particularly objective judgement after he's spent a year out with a torn achilles.
I would think that when we were considering him he would have certainly been considered a better player than Scott Welsh. If he had of come to us via the PSD, never done his achilles and been playing as a 2nd or 3rd forward in a side that's a premiership contender with great service from the midfield rather than the worst team in the league with poor delivery then he may have been a great acquisition. But hey it didn't happen so we'll never know.
He's certainly not the player he was which is a shame because at his best he was pretty good and certainly entertaining.
Certainly with Scott Welsh's injury history we;ve been lucky to have him on the park as often as we have.

[ledge]

I think he would have been very good with us.
Different club, different culture, more drive.
He also has good relationship with media which helps in other ways.

[The Coon Dog]

Don't let the facts get in the way TCD.

I'm not too sure what you mean here.




I don't think we can make a particularly objective judgement after he's spent a year out with a torn achilles.

My point exactly.

[Jasper]

We never ever considered trading a high pick for him. If we did get him, it would have been through the PSD.
I do not believe what you are saying is totally correct. We were initially offering the pick that we ended up using to get Hudson. Melbourne wanted pick 5 and we offered 22. Of course we would have liked Robertson to slip through to the PSD but we did offer pick 22. Once the Hudson deal was done we then hoped to get Robertson via the PSD and to me that would have still been a high price.

[Mantis]

I do not believe what you are saying is totally correct. We were initially offering the pick that we ended up using to get Hudson. Melbourne wanted pick 5 and we offered 22. Of course we would have liked Robertson to slip through to the PSD but we did offer pick 22. Once the Hudson deal was done we then hoped to get Robertson via the PSD and to me that would have still been a high price.

Who is the source that provided you with this information?

I have never heard that we offered up pick 22 so I would be interested to know more.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I do not believe what you are saying is totally correct. We were initially offering the pick that we ended up using to get Hudson. Melbourne wanted pick 5 and we offered 22. Of course we would have liked Robertson to slip through to the PSD but we did offer pick 22. Once the Hudson deal was done we then hoped to get Robertson via the PSD and to me that would have still been a high price.

That is simply factually incorrect.

It was always our intention to take him in the PSD or not at all.

The source is fairly good.

[The Coon Dog]

I do not believe what you are saying is totally correct. We were initially offering the pick that we ended up using to get Hudson. Melbourne wanted pick 5 and we offered 22. Of course we would have liked Robertson to slip through to the PSD but we did offer pick 22. Once the Hudson deal was done we then hoped to get Robertson via the PSD and to me that would have still been a high price.

No way, I was there with Mantis & Sockeye when we were told about Robbo.

[G-Mo77]

I don't believe that we offered any pics for him. I really don't think we really made a big play at him either? Most Melbourne people believe (Well the ones I have talked to) that the rumors about going to the Bulldogs were false and he was never going to leave. Rumors were circulated to net another contract with the Dees. That is the story I believe.

[ledge]

I heard he was coming but Lyon or some other old good player talked him out of it... bet he is spewing now.

[The Coon Dog]

I don't believe that we offered any pics for him. I really don't think we really made a big play at him either? Most Melbourne people believe (Well the ones I have talked to) that the rumors about going to the Bulldogs were false and he was never going to leave. Rumors were circulated to net another contract with the Dees. That is the story I believe.

We were keen, no doubt about that. It certainly helped Robbo when Chris Judd nominated Carlton as Melbourne then had some cash freed up under the cap, which they used to award Robbo a pay rise.

[bornadog]

Well, either way we certainly dodged a bullet. Welsh has proven to be a valuable member in our forward line.

[The Underdog]

I'm not too sure what you mean here.




Sorry TCD, was trying to back up your point that we never were going to use anything other than a PSD pick. It was your facts getting in the way of Jasper's story.

I don't recall any talk at the time of us trading a draft pick for him. It was pick him up free or not at all.
I should have been a bit clearer.

[BulldogBelle]

With a 33 year old Aker, a 32 year old Johnson and a 30 year old Welsh all under 186cms we didnt need another ageing small forward

Better of playing one of the kids like Grant or O'Keefee on a forward flank rather than Robertson

[The Underdog]

With a 33 year old Aker, a 32 year old Johnson and a 30 year old Welsh all under 186cms we didnt need another ageing small forward

Better of playing one of the kids like Grant or O'Keefee on a forward flank rather than Robertson

We would have got Robertson with the pick we used on Welsh. We only went after Welsh once Robbo had said no. We would never have had all 4.

[Remi Moses]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have. Who knows, by being at the Bulldogs he might have be a better player mentally & not needed to stage for frees. He would have seen alot more of the ball than he does at Melbourne.

Not a hindsight call in the least I just think he typifies alot of melbourne players re-selfishness Yze springs to mind. Also the fist pump when you're getting pantsed looks silly,trying to take mark of the week in every contest,kicking the ball over your shoulder in the goal square. Continually let melbourne down in finals also[had some mates there]

[LostDoggy]

I'm glad we didn't get him, and got Welsh instead.

I think Welsh adds a different dimension, and more then what Robbo would've.

[Remi Moses]

I'm glad we didn't get him, and got Welsh instead.

I think Welsh adds a different dimension, and more then what Robbo would've.

Robbo looks a touch out of condition to. Does anybody else think Bailey is looking Rohdesque as a coach?:eek:

[lemmon]

Robbo looks a touch out of condition to. Does anybody else think Bailey is looking Rohdesque as a coach?:eek:

Early to call with Bailey, has inherited a shocking list that was on the decline. Not sure many coaches would do any betther then what he was with the cattle available.

[lemmon]

With the Welsh and Robertson thing, was it that the club favoured Robertson but he didnt want to come or was Welsh always the first priority?

[Remi Moses]

With the Welsh and Robertson thing, was it that the club favoured Robertson but he didnt want to come or was Welsh always the first priority?

the club initially favoured Robertson.Tend to recall his manager playing out negeotiations in the media saying that we offered him a 3 year contract.Tend to think his manager used us as leverage for abetter deal with Melbourne.

[mighty_west]

It's an interesting debate, and in hindsight, it looks as though we did dodge a bullet...

HOWEVER

Like a few have stated, different situation, different circumstances, just because he blew his achilles at Melbourne, doesn't mean he would have done the same had he crossed over, and you could mount an argument that Welsh was actually more injury prone than Robbo anyway!

We would never have sold the farm for Robbo , and most likely picked him up in the PSD like we did with Welsh, so we would never have selected both players, it was either, and whilst Welsh has been servicable to date, i believe Robbo at the time was a far better footballer than Welsh, neither are talls, but both would have filled a hole.

The Robbo injury, it's like saying, lucky we got rid of Nathan Brown cos he would have snapped his leg in half had he stayed, thats just garbage, and very narrow mindedness.

[mighty_west]

With the Welsh and Robertson thing, was it that the club favoured Robertson but he didnt want to come or was Welsh always the first priority?

I think Welsh was pretty much an after thought, or not exactly our biggest priority.

From what Rocket was saying at the time, we had a short list of perhaps 5 or 6 forwards, Robbo was definatly a higher priority, but with Robbo deciding to stay put, somehow we got lucky with Welsh wanting to leave Adelaide and pretty much falling in our lap.

[azabob]

Not a hindsight call in the least I just think he typifies alot of melbourne players re-selfishness Yze springs to mind. Also the fist pump when you're getting pantsed looks silly,trying to take mark of the week in every contest,kicking the ball over your shoulder in the goal square. Continually let melbourne down in finals also[had some mates there]

Interesting the only other Melbourne player you point out is no longer at the club. I think you are quick to forget how poor we were in regards to team play etc etc when we were on the bottom of the ladder.
IMO Robertson seems to be more consistant in his goal output than Welsh. I think that may have something to do with him being Melbourne's only avenue to goal.
But having said all that I think your being harsh on Melbourne in general.

[ledge]

Melbourne are full of kids and its very hard to lead them at fullforward when the ball isnt there, Robbo would get frustrated as Hall does playing on a small ground at Sydney.

Personally i am not going to compare Robbo and Welsh but i have no doubt Robbo would have achieved more being with us than at Melbourne and the show off part would have been knocked on the head as Akers handstand was.

Changing teams means different culture, we have a different culture than them , players conform, re invigorate and change style to what the coach wants from them.

I think Robbo made a bad choice but sometimes loyalty over rules and i give him credit for it.

[mighty_west]

I think Robbo made a bad choice but sometimes loyalty over rules and i give him credit for it.

I know what you mean, but i don't think he made a bad decision, yeah he could have played out his career in a more successful side, but any player that chooses loyalty over $$$$'s or success, deserves the upmost respect.

[Topdog]

Robbo looks a touch out of condition to. Does anybody else think Bailey is looking Rohdesque as a coach?:eek:

I think Bailey is looking great. IMO Melbourne will be a very very good side in 3 years.

[ledge]

I think Bailey is looking great. IMO Melbourne will be a very very good side in 3 years.

I thought this early on, Melbourne will be a good side but i am just not convinced Bailey is the man now.

[hujsh]

Robbo looks a touch out of condition to. Does anybody else think Bailey is looking Rohdesque as a coach?:eek:

Rhode was worse cause he wasted 1st round picks

[Remi Moses]

I'd be more worried by melbourne's lack of intensity. Maybe a tad harsh on Bailey,this time next year if melbourne haven't improved and they don't win 7 or 8 games Bailey will have to have the blow torch applied by the media. The injury doesn't hide the fact that Robbo plays for himself and spends half the match sprawled on the carpet.

[Remi Moses]

I think Bailey is looking great. IMO Melbourne will be a very very good side in 3 years.

Find it hard to agree a coach looks great when they're about 4 from 34 games.

[Topdog]

Find it hard to agree a coach looks great when they're about 4 from 34 games.

Good for you. I don't believe in simple win / loss ratios as my factors in what makes a good coach.

Ratten lost his first 7 and now looks like a genious --> He is crap and has cost Carlton at least 2 wins this year.

Brisbane are 4th. At least 16 of their 22 have been in the side for ages and his young players like Brennan and Clark are finally playing well. I can't say he is a bad or good coach yet but the media are over estimating his role there. If ever a rookie coach was going to have success it was going to be at the Lions this year. Brown, Bradshaw, Black and Power are a fantastic starting block.

Similarly Rocket must have looked like a dud when he lost 6 out of the last 7 (approx.) 2 years ago.

Woosha is getting a 3 year extension for being in the bottom 3 because he won a premiership years ago. He is looking well and truely like a dunce at the moment.

Bailey has got his young team to play a pretty decent brand of footy but they fall down in a few areas with the main one being their forward line. They are basically relying on Robbo who is past his best now. They had 2 rookies in their fwd line last week. Bate is seriously underrated IMO.

[mighty_west]

I'd be more worried by melbourne's lack of intensity. Maybe a tad harsh on Bailey,this time next year if melbourne haven't improved and they don't win 7 or 8 games Bailey will have to have the blow torch applied by the media. The injury doesn't hide the fact that Robbo plays for himself and spends half the match sprawled on the carpet.

They didn't lack intensity when they played us, and at times this year, have showed some improvement, thats pretty much all you can ask from a side like Melbourne at this stage.

The blow torch hasn't been on Bailey for those reasons, the improvement [although not showing it with wins] and with the GC concessions in the next few years of the draft, Melbourne simple can't afford to start winning games, they can again grab 2 of the best young kids in this years draft, and go on from there.

I quite like the look of some of their younger players, i reckon Cheney is going to be something, they are going to have a very solid backline, Frawley, Rivers, Martin, Garland, their midfield is also taking shape - Bartram, Grimes, Jones, McLean, Morton, Davey, and some handy forwards as well, off course Watts as a key forward, Pettard [i rated him playing in the QLD u/18's], Bate, Sylvia is having his best season & Wonaeamirri.

Maybe throw in a Butcher or some other highly rated kids coming through and i reckon Melbourne have something pretty good to look forward to.

He has been cut some slack because of his approach, he has pretty much cleaned the cupboard and recriuted in some exciting kids, and playing those kids as well, the difference between Bailey & Rhode was that Rhode traded for trades sake, he didn't care what it cost him to plug holes, with players that were pretty much on the scrap heap or just surviving at their clubs anyway.

[Twodogs]

No way, I was there with Mantis & Sockeye when we were told about Robbo.



Yep, me three-I was there, the source is immaculate. We never, ever considered trading a pick.



Anyway I've been wrapped with Welsh and for me it's all well that ends well!

[Twodogs]

Robbo looks a touch out of condition to. Does anybody else think Bailey is looking Rohdesque as a coach?:eek:


Not at all. I thought they were really good against us-we didnt struggle that day, a lot of people just sold Melbourne's effort a bit short.

[The Pie Man]

While Robertson isn't a 6'4 power forward, he can take a contested grab, so I can see why we were looking at him. Welsh I believe is reasonably strong, and has taken some ripping marks on a hard lead under pressure, but isn't the sit under the ball contested grab that Robertson in his prime could be.

What I like about Welsh though is that despite a skip in his run up, he's a damn good kick for goal. From memory, from 40 + out, Robertson's kicks do have a tendency to drift right. I was a bit dirty on him in our flat patch last year (I think apart from the Sydney game in Canberra he'd had a very ordinary month) but all up he's been great value and we got him for nothing.

You never know, if Robbo came to us, he might never have gotten injured.

On a side note re: Melbourne - I think we should look at getting Miller next year, they might be prepared to trade him out for more youth/picks.