With Dogs so menacing, who needs Barry Hall?

[Mantis]

With Dogs so menacing, who needs Barry Hall? (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25736652-19742,00.html)

Western Bulldogs gun half-forward Shaun Higgins doubts the club will chase out-of-favour Sydney spearhead Barry Hall. The Bulldogs are believed to be the only club open to trading for Hall.

But Higgins, 21, felt the Dogs' 88-point demolition of Hawthorn, which sets up a "massive" match against Collingwood on Friday night, would help close the door on any speculation.

He said the team's precision kicking and selflessness in attack was more important than having a big-name spearhead.

"Outside of the club, there's a lot of big talk that we need a tall forward, but we don't believe that at all," Higgins said.

"Our forward line is working well and the way that we use the footy. If we can keep doing that, there is no need for the tall forward.

"And we are working well as a forward group, so we are not worried about getting a big forward at all."

Hall's future is unclear after he suggested last week he had considered retiring or switching clubs on the back of his latest suspension.

Showing a more balanced forward approach, the Dogs scored from 38 of their 52 inside-50s at Etihad Stadium on Saturday night, demoralising Hawthorn's premiership defence.

Coming into the round, the Dogs had the second-best attack in the competition and they underlined that with 10 goalkickers.

In-form midfielder Adam Cooney said yesterday the 13-goal first half was special.

"It's probably the best first half I've been involved in since I've been at the club," he said.

But the focus at Whitten Oval has quickly turned to Collingwood and a battle that could determine which side finishes in third place behind St Kilda and Geelong.

"It's a massive game for us next week against Collingwood to try to secure a top-four spot. Collingwood is knocking on the door behind us," Higgins said.

"We will worry about Geelong and St Kilda later in the year.

"We have got to make sure we get the recovery right this week because we have got a short week coming up and Collingwood, over the last month, has played some really good footy.

"We have got to do our homework on them."

Higgins, who is out of contract at the end of the season and among Gold Coast's most wanted, said the players took a lot of confidence out of the win against the Hawks.

"Obviously considering what they were able to do last year -- and they have got a similar list -- we were expecting a tough game," he said.

"They have been down the past few weeks. We knew they would come out strong, so to put on the first quarter (nine goals to nil) that we did was pleasing."

He praised the team's kicking efficiency and finishing skills, but he said its tackling and toughness was even more important to its success.

Higgins said the work on pressure tactics in the past few years, and particularly in the pre-season, was paying off.

"We have come from a long way back in terms of defensive skills in the last few years," he said.

"We put a big emphasis on it in the pre-season.

"It's been a massive jump. That's what wins you games these days.

"Hawthorn has obviously built its game on hardness around the footy and stoppages in the last few years.

"But we are right up there now with hardball gets and clearances, which is pleasing."

[ledge]

In all that Higgins says i still think a big forward is another great option we could have and another thing the opposition would be dumbfounded with.

Besides that the media would shut up about it!

I wouldnt mind Hall at the club if the head is right.

[Cyberdoggie]

I worry about his versatility.

What if plan A "Kick it to Barry Hall" doesn't work?

Do we leave him there?, bench him?, put him into defense?


Our game is working so well because we have so many players that can play just about anywhere. Not sure Barry would really fit in with that strategy.

[Mantis]

I worry about his versatility.

What if plan A "Kick it to Barry Hall" doesn't work?

Do we leave him there?, bench him?, put him into defense?

Our game is working so well because we have so many players that can play just about anywhere. Not sure Barry would really fit in with that strategy.

I think it says a fair bit about us that arguably our 2 most creative forwards (Gia & Murf) were not in our forward line on Saturday night and we were still able to have 38 shots on goal. Of course this was helped by the midfield dominance, but it is still a very good result.

[Desipura]

Look at the Geelong vs St Kilda game in the dying seconds. What a luxury to be able to kick the ball long and have Gardiner mark it. Geelong were too busy worrying about Kosi & Riewoldt. Its hard to be precise with your skills when you are under that much pressure, hence why the long kick to a pack situation is needed from time to time. The ball travels faster than anyone can run.

[Mantis]

^^^^

Good point Desi.

I was just thinking about this at lunch-time when reading about the Geel v St.K game. We will no doubt find ourselves in a similar position at some point this season and it will be interesting to see how we go about scoring the winning goal when our running players are out on their feet.

[Stefcep]

Look at the Geelong vs St Kilda game in the dying seconds. What a luxury to be able to kick the ball long and have Gardiner mark it. Geelong were too busy worrying about Kosi & Riewoldt. Its hard to be precise with your skills when you are under that much pressure, hence why the long kick to a pack situation is needed from time to time. The ball travels faster than anyone can run.

Gardner is a ruckman, not a forward. And yes from time to time you need a big bloke who can take the mark from a hoof to no-one in particular. For one thing Griffen's turnover stats kicking into the forward 50 would look better as we could say his 100 metre (50 up and 50 down) kicks were aimed at the tall forwards. But really, when you look at it, only Geelong has score more than us (10 points more than us at that). St Kilda, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Essendon all have two tall forwards and they have scored less than us. Scoring is not and hasn't been a problem for nearly 2 seasons. As Higgins said a strong defense is what decides the winners and the losers theses days. And i hope we keep Higgins, but he'll be offered a fat wad of cash, club captaincy..to play in a losing side.

[Mofra]

I was just thinking about this at lunch-time when reading about the Geel v St.K game. We will no doubt find ourselves in a similar position at some point this season and it will be interesting to see how we go about scoring the winning goal when our running players are out on their feet.
Lake mark, feigns dodgy hammy, Minson to kick it? :D

I still think players with X factor are made for these moments - he's no monster but Hill will probably do something like this one game.

[Stefcep]

^^^^

Good point Desi.

I was just thinking about this at lunch-time when reading about the Geel v St.K game. We will no doubt find ourselves in a similar position at some point this season and it will be interesting to see how we go about scoring the winning goal when our running players are out on their feet.

I'm not concerned about being run off our feet. Our last quarters are the best in the league. Fitness in the dying stages won't be a problem.

[Desipura]

Gardner is a ruckman, not a forward. And yes from time to time you need a big bloke who can take the mark from a hoof to no-one in particular. For one thing Griffen's turnover stats kicking into the forward 50 would look better as we could say his 100 metre (50 up and 50 down) kicks were aimed at the tall forwards. But really, when you look at it, only Geelong has score more than us (10 points more than us at that). St Kilda, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Essendon all have two tall forwards and they have scored less than us. Scoring is not and hasn't been a problem for nearly 2 seasons. As Higgins said a strong defense is what decides the winners and the losers theses days. And i hope we keep Higgins, but he'll be offered a fat wad of cash, club captaincy..to play in a losing side.

No he is not but having someone like Barry in the forward line allows Will to push forward and fly for a mark in a pack sitiation with less attention.

[Desipura]

I'm not concerned about being run off our feet. Our last quarters are the best in the league. Fitness in the dying stages won't be a problem.


Finals are played after a long season and they are generally more physical and much faster than a home and away game. That has to take its toll on the players regardless of how fit they are.

[LostDoggy]

I was looking forward to reading.

"A contract is there, and i will be signing it soon."

Come on Higgo!!!

[Stefcep]

No he is not but having someone like Barry in the forward line allows Will to push forward and fly for a mark in a pack sitiation with less attention.

fair enough, but i still don't think scoring is our major concern. We've scored more than St Kilda, who have two tall forwards, but we've conceded 400 points more than they have. I think its the lack of a another key position backman

[BulldogBelle]

Finals are played after a long season and they are generally more physical and much faster than a home and away game. That has to take its toll on the players regardless of how fit they are.

I'd rather we play some tougher games closer to finals, rather than easy games against poor opposition

Going into the finals matches seasoned will better prepare us for the tough finals games, and its better to make mistakes in the home and away season ie loose to Geelong/St Kilda both again, than loose to them in the finals

[Sockeye Salmon]

fair enough, but i still don't think scoring is our major concern. We've scored more than St Kilda, who have two tall forwards, but we've conceded 400 points more than they have. I think its the lack of a another key position backman

What CHF has towelled us up?

[Mantis]

What CHF has towelled us up?

Are there any CHF's any more?

The only key forward who has gotten off the leash this year has been Riewoldt, but his bad kicking meant that he didn't hurt us on the scoreboard.

[Stefcep]

What CHF has towelled us up?



How well do we match up on the two-pronged attacks such as these:

Brown and Bradshaw
Reiwoldt and Kozzie
Franklin and Roughhead
Cloke and Rocca
Lloyd and Lucas?
Mooney and Hawkins/Ottens

If our midfield is on top, as it was against hawthorn-who are carrying a few injuries- we can cut off the supply. If not...

We need another tall at the back.

[AndrewP6]

How well do we match up on the two-pronged attacks such as these:

Brown and Bradshaw
Reiwoldt and Kozzie
Franklin and Roughhead
Cloke and Rocca
Lloyd and Lucas?
Mooney and Hawkins/Ottens

If our midfield is on top, as it was against hawthorn-who are carrying a few injuries- we can cut off the supply. If not...

We need another tall at the back.

Rocca's just about done, isn't he?

[Happy Days]

How well do we match up on the two-pronged attacks such as these:

Brown and Bradshaw
Reiwoldt and Kozzie
Franklin and Roughhead
Cloke and Rocca
Lloyd and Lucas?
Mooney and Hawkins/Ottens

If our midfield is on top, as it was against hawthorn-who are carrying a few injuries- we can cut off the supply. If not...

We need another tall at the back.

You can't discredit the job Brian did on Buddy. It's not like the ball went no where near him; there were still several one-on-one contests where Brian completley destroyed him. Buddy still had the supply to kick 5 or so.

As per your request, our other tall defender, Tom Williams, will be back shortly. That bloke Morris doesn't go too badly on the gorillas either.

[Stefcep]

Rocca's just about done, isn't he?

IF he gets his fitness back, he's still hard to match up on.

What about the others?

[Sockeye Salmon]

IF he gets his fitness back, he's still hard to match up on.

What about the others?

Earlier this year Mick Malthouse said privately that he thinks Rocca is finished and wouldn't see the season out.

[Stefcep]

You can't discredit the job Brian did on Buddy. It's not like the ball went no where near him; there were still several one-on-one contests where Brian completley destroyed him. Buddy still had the supply to kick 5 or so.

As per your request, our other tall defender, Tom Williams, will be back shortly. That bloke Morris doesn't go too badly on the gorillas either.

Lake did well. But Buddy also had a shocker all of his own doing. He's confidence is shot at the moment.

Williams injury record is my concern.

Morris is a GREAT defender, all-Australian IMHO. But he gives away a bit in height. Against a strong effective midfield, he's job is that much tougher.

[AndrewP6]

IF he gets his fitness back, he's still hard to match up on.

What about the others?

A big 'if'... I reckon he won't play again. Kosi and Riewoldt we've done alright against recently, this year maybe a different proposition, but the Saints are different right across the field. Brown/Bradshaw - I think our current backs can take them. Lloyd and Lucas - I think our midfield can get on top of theirs, negating their two bigs.
Hawkins, as many have suggested, hasn't shown much... Ottens is doubtful to play, at least in the short term.

[Stefcep]

A big 'if'... I reckon he won't play again. Kosi and Riewoldt we've done alright against recently, this year maybe a different proposition, but the Saints are different right across the field. Brown/Bradshaw - I think our current backs can take them. Lloyd and Lucas - I think our midfield can get on top of theirs, negating their two bigs.
Hawkins, as many have suggested, hasn't shown much... Ottens is doubtful to play, at least in the short term.

Fair enough. But I'm still not convinced, i think if Williams can get right then that problem is soleved, otherwise i think we're a lacking one tall backman. Just my opinion.

Getting back to Hall, I think he does take cheap shots, and he picks who he hits. I can remember a match in Sydney when he went up for a mark near the boundary and Chris Grant came over the top of him to punch it out of play, but in so doing he caught the back of Hall's head with upper arm/elbow. Not intentional ofcourse, but Hall didn't like it and quickly swung around to see who'd given him the knock, looked like he was gonna go on with it till he realised it was Granty, so instead bowed his head and just moved on..

[Desipura]

Fair enough. But I'm still not convinced, i think if Williams can get right then that problem is soleved, otherwise i think we're a lacking one tall backman. Just my opinion.

Getting back to Hall, I think he does take cheap shots, and he picks who he hits. I can remember a match in Sydney when he went up for a mark near the boundary and Chris Grant came over the top of him to punch it out of play, but in so doing he caught the back of Hall's head with upper arm/elbow. Not intentional ofcourse, but Hall didn't like it and quickly swung around to see who'd given him the knock, looked like he was gonna go on with it till he realised it was Granty, so instead bowed his head and just moved on..
Perhaps when he saw it was Grant, he showed respect by not hitting the great man.

[Stefcep]

Perhaps when he saw it was Grant, he showed respect by not hitting the great man.

Seriously I have no doubt about that. Can you imagine what a tool he would have looked taking a swing at Granty.

[Sedat]

IF he gets his fitness back, he's still hard to match up on.

Apparently he's been working on this since 1995. Even today, one long lead just about sees him out for the day - he will be punting in the States as soon as he is out of contract.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Seriously I have no doubt about that. Can you imagine what a tool he would have looked taking a swing at Granty.

A few years back Hall nearly belted Chris into next week.

The next marking contest Shaggy came in and just about knocked Hall's head off his shoulders. Got away with it, too.

[AndrewP6]

Chris Grant came over the top of him to punch it out of play, but in so doing he caught the back of Hall's head with upper arm/elbow. Not intentional ofcourse, but Hall didn't like it and quickly swung around to see who'd given him the knock, looked like he was gonna go on with it till he realised it was Granty, so instead bowed his head and just moved on..

See, he's a smart bloke! ;)

[bornadog]

Agree with Higgins we don't need another ageing forward just because they have some height.

Our style of play has enabled us to kick more goals than any other team (maybe not Geelong) in the past 5 years, yes the past five years.

If we do have talls in the forward line, they have to be agile and run fast (ala Grant and Ayce), in other words, play like smalls but have the height to jump for big marks. Hall is an old fashion full forward and the AFL has moved on from those type of guys.

[Sedat]

If we do have talls in the forward line, they have to be agile and run fast (ala Grant and Ayce), in other words, play like smalls but have the height to jump for big marks. Hall is an old fashion full forward and the AFL has moved on from those type of guys.
Reckon you're selling Hall short there. He is very quick on the lead, has agility, and is prepared (forced to because of Sydney's game style) to make repeated leads to provide a target. he also chases and harrases better than most key forwards in the game today and isn't afraid to make dummy leads to clear a path for other forwards. he can also clunk a contested grab when needed.

But he is 33 years old at the start of next season and common sense would dictate that his powers would have to start diminishing in the next couple of years.