Barry Hall

[comrade]

Simple.

Do you want him next year?

[The Coon Dog]

Yes, put simply.

[comrade]

Yes, put simply.

What's most attractive about it?

[AndrewP6]

Yep, let's give it a shot...

[Rocco Jones]

Short answer yes.

It needs to be about him chasing us at least as much as us chasing him. He has demonstrated that he can stay focused when he is motivated, Barry needs to want it.

His KP forward stats this year and the last couple of seasons demonstrate that he is still a high quality player. We should get him for close to nothing and we shouldn't have to pay him much. Obviously we can do with a KP forward.

[GVGjr]

At this stage...no thanks. He would need to display substantially more ticker and common sense before I would consider it.

[Happy Days]

Yes, but as I said before, as long as it does not come at the cost of any draft picks.

[The Coon Dog]

What's most attractive about it?

Now you're changing the ground rules, it was just a simple do you want him or not next year, now you want me to justify it!!!!!!!!!! Geez comrade, you're pushy but because its you....

Firstly he's still a bloody good footballer & recently kicked 6 against us.

Secondly, we're much more direct than the Swans, so that should help too as his leads are more likely to be honoured.

Thirdly, he'd aid & take the pressure off Grant, Cordy etc...

Fourthly, he can take a contested mark, so if we need a Hail Mary he provides that option.

Fifthly, he'd take a topline defender which may free others up down the line.

Sixthly, his name in Barry.

Seventhly, he shares the same initials as Ben Hudson, so another BHBAS (Barry Hall's Bonce Appreciation Society) is possible.

Eighthly if he did lose it, we'd probably have front row seats.

Ninthly, he barracked for the club as a kid.

Tenthly, we have a board member with the same name!

So there, comrade! ;)

[Dry Rot]

Anyone know why he has exploded more than usual in the last 2 seasons?

In his press conference, he said he now couldn't trust himself on a footy nor out in public.

Ordinarily, I'd take him in a heart beat to fix the glaring deficiency we have in our forward line, but he seems to have gone mad lately.

Why would he be any different next year?

[The Coon Dog]

Why would he be any different next year?

Honestly, who knows?

I look back at how Rocket got the best out of another froot loop in Plugger & hopefully draw some parallels.

[Dry Rot]

Honestly, who knows?

I look back at how Rocket got the best out of another froot loop in Plugger & hopefully draw some parallels.

Fair point re Plugger but I wonder if Hall has now lost it.

[comrade]

So there, comrade! ;)

You make some bloody good points, I think I might vote yes now. :D

For me, if Welsh finishes up at the end of the year, then it becomes a very attractive proposition.

[AndrewP6]

Now you're changing the ground rules, it was just a simple do you want him or not next year, now you want me to justify it!!!!!!!!!! Geez comrade, you're pushy but because its you....

Firstly he's still a bloody good footballer & recently kicked 6 against us.

Secondly, we're much more direct than the Swans, so that should help too as his leads are more likely to be honoured.

Thirdly, he'd aid & take the pressure off Grant, Cordy etc...

Fourthly, he can take a contested mark, so if we need a Hail Mary he provides that option.

Fifthly, he'd take a topline defender which may free others up down the line.

Sixthly, his name in Barry.

Seventhly, he shares the same initials as Ben Budson, so another BHBAS (Barry Hall's Bonce Appreciation Society) is possible.

Eighthly if he did lose it, we'd probably have front row seats.

Ninthly, he barracked for the club as a kid.

So there, comrade! ;)


Great points... but "Ben Budson"? :)

[The Coon Dog]

Great points... but "Ben Budson"? :)
Oops!!! Fixed now. Thanks AP6.

[LostDoggy]

Sixthly, his name in Barry.

I was convinced at this point, TCD has me sold :D

[comrade]

Will the fact that Higgins has been quoted as essentially saying we don't need Hall and he doubts we'll go after him, have any affect on the footy department's decision - considering this is a man that could easily be leading the Club within 2 or 3 years?

[AndrewP6]

Will the fact that Higgins has been quoted as essentially saying we don't need Hall and he doubts we'll go after him, have any affect on the footy department's decision - considering this is a man that could easily be leading the Club within 2 or 3 years?

Personally I don't think so...players say a lot without checking!

[Rocket Science]

Boxing stalwart Johnny Lewis isn't a Dogs supporter is he?

=======================================

Boxing is ready for Barry Hall to go the biff (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25748509-19742,00.html)

THE boxing world is waiting with open arms and wallets should Barry Hall pursue a pugilistic career.

Former world light heavyweight champion Danny Green said yesterday his door is open to Hall.

``Barry knows where I stand on his position should he choose to fight. It's up to him to decide what to do and I am here to support him,'' said Green, who next month meets Argentinian Julio cesar Dominquez for the IBO cruiserweight title in Mississippi.

``While it's a sad day for Barry and the Swans, in another way it's a very exciting day. It opens up a new door for him, which could be another AFL club or boxing. Not all men have so much to offer after their football careers finish.

`Should he choose boxing then Green Machine Promotions will be there for him. He's a mate who I have sparred with.

``His father taught him some very sound boxing skills as an amateur and as such he is a very appealing boxing prospect.

``He obviously has huge marketing potential through his national exposure in the AFL. But as I said earlier, I will support him in which ever way he goes.''

Only Anthony Mundine before him has gone from a high profile football career to boxing, and Mundine has made more money than most Australian sportspersons can dream of.

Green said pay for view would go through the roof should Hall enter the ring.

Johnny Lewis, who has trained five world champions including Jeff Fenech and Kostya Tszyu out of his Sydney gymnasium, saw plenty of Hall during his early years in Sydney between 2002-2006.
``He boxed as a junior and it's like riding a bike, you don't forget. He would go a long way very quickly in Australia's heavyweight ranks but the want has to be greater than the need,'' said Lewis yesterday.

``Anthony Mundine wanted to do it whereas Barry still wants to play football. And I hope he does because I reckon Rodney Eade would be great for him at the Bulldogs.

``Sydney has over-reacted to him for the past two years. Their so-called leadership group is totally over the top, just a big joke if you ask me. Why didn't they just work through it with him?

``They don't deserve Barry Hall. They sent him to a shrink to decide when he should play. I haven't seen too many of them shrinks but most people who have reckon they are the ones who need help.''

Lewis said should Hall take the boxing path then he hopes he doesn't become some sort of side-show act.

``He could become a circus clown in the wrong hands. Mundine has looked after himself and made a lot of money in the process and Barry could do the same, but as I said earlier, he has to really want to do it.

``If he does, he'll be successful. If he has any doubts, it won't work out. But I have confidence Barry will make the right decision and right now I firmly believe that should be to play next year with the Western Bulldogs.

``How many goals would he kick on the end of their delivery, and how much bigger would those boys be with him alongside them?''

=======================================

Unusually pointed well-wishes for a bloke with no (as far as I know) AFL ties.

He certainly ain't a Bloods man...

[strebla]

I say yes as I believe that we have such a strong leadership group from the president through to the bootstudder to keep him in line

[boydogs]

No for mine
TCD I see your 10 and raise you to 20

1) He said he can't trust himself, not sure then how we are supposed to
2) He said he can't see himself playing at another club lining up against Sydney
3) He has priors at the tribunal that will guarantee long suspensions for any indiscretions
4) He is getting old in AFL terms thus not as athletic as in earlier years
5) His age means he is more susceptable to injury
6) Missing the last 8 games this season he may be injured coming back ala Cousins
7) He will probably replace Welsh
8) He will only be around for a year or two
9) In his limited time he may not be very effective, still adjusting to his environment and game plan ala Aker
10) He would take game time away from our developing forwards
11) An alternate player from the pick we use to get him will be lost
11) He could damage our clean reputation with continued indiscretions
12) Opposition players know he can be easily aggrevated and will be able to put him off his game and get him to give away frees & 50s and get suspended
13) He would take the media attention away from positives at the club
14) We don't need the speculation on getting him to distract us this year
15) We don't need the speculation on his behaviour to distract us next year
16) We don't want to send a message to the group that we need to take such a risk to be successful
17) He would receive even more media attention in Melbourne and would be distracted
18) Our forward line is currently working well as it is, we should not disrupt this for a single season
19) Eade's focus would be taken away from team success to managing Hall
20) He would be doing it to redeem himself and not for a premiership ala Pavlich

[chef]

If we don't win the flag this year then it's a yeas for me.

[Desipura]

YES I would rather we risk and fail then not take a risk at all.

[LostDoggy]

I have no problem with putting him on the list and have him earn his spot. The only question I am unsure about is who would you leave out of the 22.

[bornadog]

I voted no, for three reasons:

too old



Too Old


TOO OLD

[Desipura]

I voted no, for three reasons:

too old



Too Old


TOO OLD

What has that got to do with anything?
Has his age stopped him from kicking goals? No
Is he injury prone as a result of his age? No

[Mofra]

Yes, but for one year with extension, not a two year deal. I would expect in 2011 one of Roughy, Grant or Cordy would start demanding more senior time. None of them will be making a serious impact next year.

In any case, Hall will cost us nothing - 4th rounder is the most we'd be likely to pay, PSD pick quite possible.
It is also unlikely that all of Welsh, Johnno, Eagle & Aker will be playing next year, so the age question isn't as relevent as it might seem when we know it's a short term proposition.

It seems there are more people saying yes to Barry then there were saying yes to Aker, and I think the Aker deal was a win.

[The Coon Dog]

At the end of the day if the club want him I'm happy with that decision & if they don't, again I'm happy with that too.

[Sedat]

Is he injury prone as a result of his age? No
By the law of averages, he will be more injury prone because of his age. Soft tissue injuries are the bane of the over 30's existence. Even though Hall is in ripping nick, you cannot underestimate the greatly increased chance of a calf or quad going 'ping' next year, especially after a 9 month lay off between competitive matches, not to mention the increased speed of the game and the players going red-line the entire time they are on the park. After long lay-offs before re-entering competitive football at the highest level, Cousins, Dew and Aker all really struggled with their bodies the first year back, and all of them were 3 years younger than Hall at the time. But like all 3 players have subsequently shown, pure skill and class comes to the fore, and you'd imagine Hall could similarly make a positive impact on the field as well. Let's wait until season's end to check with Hall's state of mind, his passion to continue his AFL career, his passion to play with us, a full medical check, and take it from there.

In the words of Ari Gold..."this town loves a comeback baby, and Britney f***ed her's up"

[Mantis]

In the words of Ari Gold..."this town loves a comeback baby, and Britney f***ed her's up"

About time we had some reference to the best character on TV.

If Ari loves a comeback then so do I.

[bulldogtragic]

Now you're changing the ground rules, it was just a simple do you want him or not next year, now you want me to justify it!!!!!!!!!! Geez comrade, you're pushy but because its you....

Firstly he's still a bloody good footballer & recently kicked 6 against us.

Secondly, we're much more direct than the Swans, so that should help too as his leads are more likely to be honoured.

Thirdly, he'd aid & take the pressure off Grant, Cordy etc...

Fourthly, he can take a contested mark, so if we need a Hail Mary he provides that option.

Fifthly, he'd take a topline defender which may free others up down the line.

Sixthly, his name in Barry.

Seventhly, he shares the same initials as Ben Hudson, so another BHBAS (Barry Hall's Bonce Appreciation Society) is possible.

Eighthly if he did lose it, we'd probably have front row seats.

Ninthly, he barracked for the club as a kid.

Tenthly, we have a board member with the same name!

So there, comrade! ;)
Post of the year nomination right there laides and gentleman.

And I agree.

[comrade]

Gogriff, please see my responses below in bold.

Just a few counter-arguments to stimulate further discussion :D


No for mine
TCD I see your 10 and raise you to 20

1) He said he can't trust himself, not sure then how we are supposed to
That’s why you wait until the end of the year and see where he’s at.

2) He said he can't see himself playing at another club lining up against Sydney
Of course he’s going to say that at his farewell press conference with Roosy sitting next to him – did you expect him to say he can’t wait to line up against the Swans and he’s going to be gunning for Goodes

3) He has priors at the tribunal that will guarantee long suspensions for any indiscretions
Yep, it’s a risk.

4) He is getting old in AFL terms thus not as athletic as in earlier years
He seems to be in very good condition and hasn’t struggled with recurring soft tissue injuries ala Cousins. In fact, he’s been more mobile this year than the previous 2.

5) His age means he is more susceptable to injury
Yep, it’s a risk, but see above

6) Missing the last 8 games this season he may be injured coming back ala Cousins
8 games is very different to 2 years out of the sport.

7) He will probably replace Welsh
How’s that a bad thing? If Welsh retires, we’ll have a hole in our forward line.

8) He will only be around for a year or two
Perfect – our young guys will be ready to take over then.

9) In his limited time he may not be very effective, still adjusting to his environment and game plan ala Aker
He’s an experienced campaigner – much more likely to have an impact than a young draftee. Aker was struggling with soft tissue injuries when he arrived at the Club.

10) He would take game time away from our developing forwards
I think he’ll help take attention away from our young forwards and allow them to develop in a third/fourth tall role

11) An alternate player from the pick we use to get him will be lost
The argument could be made that we are smack bang in the midst of premiership contention – a late pick draftee is unlikely to have an impact within 2 years (especially in a shallow draft)

11) He could damage our clean reputation with continued indiscretions
He could enhance our reputation if we manage to keep him on the straight and narrow

12) Opposition players know he can be easily aggrevated and will be able to put him off his game and get him to give away frees & 50s and get suspended
That’s a risk with all aggressive players - we all love big Will.

13) He would take the media attention away from positives at the club
Again, we could turn it into a positive if he reforms. He could also be a good influence for kids in the western suburbs – the whole second (third?) chance-redemption angle.

14) We don't need the speculation on getting him to distract us this year
That’ll happen regardless.

15) We don't need the speculation on his behaviour to distract us next year
Aker turned out alright.

16) We don't want to send a message to the group that we need to take such a risk to be successful
I’d hope our group wasn’t that sensitive – players live for premierships. If Hall gets us closer, I’m sure they’ll welcome him.

17) He would receive even more media attention in Melbourne and would be distracted
Pure speculation.

18) Our forward line is currently working well as it is, we should not disrupt this for a single season
Good point and it’s one that our footy department needs to weigh up. Rocket has been quoted as saying he’d love a power forward but we just don’t have one so we’ve been forced to adapt.

19) Eade's focus would be taken away from team success to managing Hall
Again, pure speculation. Rocket is a master coach and a great man manager – I’d back him to be able to do both.

20) He would be doing it to redeem himself and not for a premiership ala Pavlich
What’s more redeeming than helping the long suffering Dogs reach premiership glory.

[The Pie Man]

Great thread/posts everyone.

Watching his press conference and hearing Roos speak of Barry as one of the more 'likeable' blokes going around, I don't think there'd be any issue with him fitting in or spoiling the culture.

I hope he comes on board

[LostDoggy]

The people arguing that we should sign him up are thinking with their hearts, not heads. Too much romanticism about him being a Dogs fan as a kid, coupled with this mythical notion that a flag can't be won without him, or someone like him. Never understimate just what being out of footy for a prolonged period can do to someone's body. He'll be 33 going on 34 next season, and will not play any serious football from last week to March 2010. That factor might be OK for someone like Cousins or someone physically in their prime, Hall is far from that. He will be slower, and it will take several weeks for him to adjust. And people want to introduce this element to a club that's already finding avenues to goal without a player like him, albeit with cameo's from Minson as a power-forward.

He also has one eye on football, one eye on an extremely lucrative boxing career. How can we place so much faith on a person whose not even 100% focussed on football? A player that has already achieved what our entire list is currently dreaming of achieving?

And all this doesn't take into account his volatility, and his propensity for lunacy. As has been shown in recent years when he is pushed mentally and when people get under his skin - he only knows how to react with thuggery. This would bring disharmony to an otherwise harmonious club.

An obvious 'No' vote from me.

[Rocco Jones]

Dante you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that he is still putting up quality KP forward stats.

*Last year he averaged the most contested marks in the league and this year he is in the top ten.

*This season he has averaged 3 goals a game, especially good when you consider how low scoring the Swans are.

Of course his discipline this season has nowhere near good enough but it was the same as just before he left the Saints. When the Swans were up and he was motivated, he demonstrated that he could be focused.

You mention that we are a club with other avenues to go, but so were/are the Swans. ROK, Micky O and Hall worked cohesively as a forward team and while Hall's discipline has been a joke, he is far from a selfish player when it comes to his football outside that.

[Sedat]

You mention that we are a club with other avenues to go, but so were/are the Swans. ROK, Micky O and Hall worked cohesively as a forward team and while Hall's discipline has been a joke, he is far from a selfish player when it comes to his football outside that.
His defensive workrate is as good as any key forward in the competition with the possible exception of Riewoldt.

[LostDoggy]

Dante you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that he is still putting up quality KP forward stats.

*Last year he averaged the most contested marks in the league and this year he is in the top ten.

*This season he has averaged 3 goals a game, especially good when you consider how low scoring the Swans are.

Of course his discipline this season has nowhere near good enough but it was the same as just before he left the Saints. When the Swans were up and he was motivated, he demonstrated that he could be focused.

You mention that we are a club with other avenues to go, but so were/are the Swans. ROK, Micky O and Hall worked cohesively as a forward team and while Hall's discipline has been a joke, he is far from a selfish player when it comes to his football outside that.

I'm not arguing about what he has achieved in his career. Maybe you should actually read my post. I am arguing about what he could possibly offer us after 6 months out of the game, alongside a risk benefit analysis of all his other non-footballing traits and what he actually wants out of his career. Anyway, this is just my opinion on the matter. I would love to see him join us, prove me wrong and achieve all the things pro-Hall people are suggesting he might. But until then, I'm of the opinion it's a risk not worth taking. Moreover, it seems like this discussion might be of no use anyway - given that he's indicated publically that he is done with football ...

[The Coon Dog]

The people arguing that we should sign him up are thinking with their hearts, not heads. Too much romanticism about him being a Dogs fan as a kid, coupled with this mythical notion that a flag can't be won without him, or someone like him. Never understimate just what being out of footy for a prolonged period can do to someone's body. He'll be 33 going on 34 next season, and will not play any serious football from last week to March 2010. That factor might be OK for someone like Cousins or someone physically in their prime, Hall is far from that. He will be slower, and it will take several weeks for him to adjust. And people want to introduce this element to a club that's already finding avenues to goal without a player like him, albeit with cameo's from Minson as a power-forward.

He also has one eye on football, one eye on an extremely lucrative boxing career. How can we place so much faith on a person whose not even 100% focussed on football? A player that has already achieved what our entire list is currently dreaming of achieving?

And all this doesn't take into account his volatility, and his propensity for lunacy. As has been shown in recent years when he is pushed mentally and when people get under his skin - he only knows how to react with thuggery. This would bring disharmony to an otherwise harmonious club.

An obvious 'No' vote from me.

DH, best post from you on WOOF by along way! Made a point, backed it up & didn't spoil it with a smartarse comment either (bet that was hard for you! lol). Keep it up, even if it was contrary to my argument, I don't mind reading stuff that's well constructed.

[Charlie the Wonder Dog]

I vote yes, on the basis that we are yet to see what the business end of 2009 brings.

There are a whole lot of ifs here:

- whether all the old commentary hacks are correct that you cannot win a flag without a key/power forward
- whether Rocket, his assistants and James F believe BBB fits the team culture and is really focused on playing football
- whether Rocket backs his ability to keep BBB on the park come finals time

What I don't think is at question is BBB's ability, unlike a few of my fellow posters I think his recent output is excellent, and he does a lot of the team things we expect our fowards to do.

[comrade]

Currently sitting at a 70% approval rating for Barry Hall.

[Desipura]

DH, best post from you on WOOF by along way! Made a point, backed it up & didn't spoil it with a smartarse comment either (bet that was hard for you! lol). Keep it up, even if it was contrary to my argument, I don't mind reading stuff that's well constructed.

Agree 100% TCD, it was a good post. In fact, when someone makes valid points and puts a bit of thought into it, it is a way my decision can potentially be swayed, however not on this occasion.

[mighty_west]

WHAT, not ANOTHER Barry Hall thread, sheeeesh, i don't know, these people that start Barry Hall threads....:D

As for my opinion : BRING IT ON!

[Mofra]

Never understimate just what being out of footy for a prolonged period can do to someone's body. He'll be 33 going on 34 next season, and will not play any serious football from last week to March 2010. That factor might be OK for someone like Cousins or someone physically in their prime, Hall is far from that.
I have 2 points to raise:

a. He has said he will continue to train; I don't think the normal physical degradation will apply given he is still pulling in close to career best stats this year & last.

b. Ben Cousins had finished something like 8 of his last 14 games with West Coast, with the rest him suffering soft tissue injuries (esp. hamstrings). Ben Cousins already had pre-existing ailments and was always going to break down, Bazza doesn't have the same soft tissue issues.

Worth mentioning that this time last year Johnno's obituaries were being written about "old man injuries" and the like. He has hardly missed a beat this year.

Nobody is expecting to see Barry play in 3 year's time, but we are talking about a potential 1 year contract that costs us little/nothing in the way of draft picks.

[jitboy]

Do I want Barry at the club next year... No.

Might it work .... Yes.

Perhaps he won't slip directly into the 22. If you pick him up for a bottom pick and cheap as chips then you can use him to pinch hit as a tall fwd based on form and matchups, just like the rest of the group outside the 22. Could be worth the price.

[LostDoggy]

Yes if we get him super cheap and if he is prepared to play an accountable role and not spit the dummy if he gets dropped for match up reasons or to bring in a younger player.

[Ozza]

Its a Yes from me.

I'm not worried about 'giving developing forwards game time'. They have 10-12 years to get game time - and at some stage you have to make the decision that NOW is more important that THE FUTURE.

We have chances this year and next to win a premiership. Thats all I want. If Barry Hall could help us win a premiership - then its a monumental YES from me.

His 6 goals against us - playing in a pretty hopeless side who deliver the ball appallingly to him - is enough to suggest the bloke has still got it.

[Dry Rot]

From reading another forum, Swans fans are unable to explain his brain explosions of the last few years.

Other folk have made excellent points here both ways about his fitness, longevity etc and what he would add to us, but I just can't see how we will turn around his on-field lack of discipline and explosions where the Swans couldn't.

[bornadog]

What has that got to do with anything?
Has his age stopped him from kicking goals? No
Is he injury prone as a result of his age? No

Age has plenty to do with it, do I have to spell it out?

He will be 33 years old in February next year, not many 33 year old athletes playing the way they did at say 25. I would prefer to give Grant, Roughhead, Boumann a go at FF.

[AndrewP6]

. Moreover, it seems like this discussion might be of no use anyway - given that he's indicated publically that he is done with football ...

Didn't he also recently say that he's not quitting the Swans? Don't believe a word he says! :)

[Desipura]

Age has plenty to do with it, do I have to spell it out?

He will be 33 years old in February next year, not many 33 year old athletes playing the way they did at say 25. I would prefer to give Grant, Roughhead, Boumann a go at FF.
Lets retire everyone over 30 then :rolleyes:
Boumann has to get a regular game for Williamstown 1sts before he will be considered.

[bulldogtragic]

We saw that Welsh had some footy left in him, and he has been breat for us, but i think this is his last year. No other club was interested for one reason or another.

Same with Hall. He has some good footy in him, Eade has been the best coach of him i think, if he wants a shot at redemption, is fit, costs a 4th rounder and an incentive contract. What have we really got to loose.

Otherwise Cordy and Grant get Scarlett and Harley- or Johno and Hall get them and Grant and Cordy have lesser smaller players to get up to speed with.

Welsh for Hall is not a bad idea.

I know a lot of this is hope for the best. But what is the worst case scenario. We use the very last pick on our list on a guy who gets suspended and doesnt get paid whilst he's suspended. I don't see we have that much to loose. Hardly a decision to take a drug user, bikies mate who brought the game into disrepute. I just don't see what we have to lose, i think we have a lot more to gain if anything.

[Scraggers]

I voted no, then read all the posts ... I still say no

I think we have done a lot of work over the last couple of years to construct a game that does not need a power lead-up forward. To take Hall now would undo all this effort and change our structure completely.

I voted no because I don't think we need him ... not this year or next

[AndrewP6]

I voted no, then read all the posts ... I still say no

I think we have done a lot of work over the last couple of years to construct a game that does not need a power lead-up forward. To take Hall now would undo all this effort and change our structure completely.

I voted no because I don't think we need him ... not this year or next

Rocket has said numerous times we work the way we do because we don't have a power forward... we don't do it in preference to having one. He's said if one were around, we'd love to have them...

[Sockeye Salmon]

No-one else will touch him, so he will cost us our last spot on the list and demand fairly little cash.

The questions are:

1. Will he provide better value than the kid we would pick up at number 50 of a weakened draft?
2. Will he upset team dynamics?
3. Will he help or stiffle the development of our young forwards?
4. Is there a spot in our side for him?


My answers are:
1. Definately. More often than not, that far down the draft the kid you wanted at pick 50 is still available as a rookie anyway eg. Jarrod Harbrow, James Mulligan.
2. Not off-field, apparently
3. Would help them I would imagine.
4. If Scott Welsh retires (Welsh also tends to miss a lot of games anyway)

[comrade]

I voted no, then read all the posts ... I still say no

I think we have done a lot of work over the last couple of years to construct a game that does not need a power lead-up forward. To take Hall now would undo all this effort and change our structure completely.

I voted no because I don't think we need him ... not this year or next

I’m not sure our structure will suddenly fall apart with the inclusion of Hall, especially if Welsh retires at the end of the year.

He’s always been at his best when leading directly at the ball carrier and ploughing through anyone that gets in his way – perfect for our precision, run and gun style.

The fact that he is also very good contested mark means he could potentially be the bail out option if our midfield does get stifled (not just in finals) and we need a bigger target.

Going by his performances this year, he’s in better physical condition than Welsh and there’s no real danger of deterioration because he’s stated he’ll continue to train and he won’t be copping knocks every week.

You give offer him a year to redeem himself and go out in style. Grant sits in a pocket next to him, Cordy and Jones play a couple of games – they take 3rd or 4th string defenders, while Barry and Johnno (or Hahn/Hill/Aker/Higgins) take the opposition’s best.

[Cyberdoggie]

I picked no.

Basically because i'm not convinced he's the type of player that will compliment our side.
Sure he could be a good forward option, and we all want that romantic ideal of a tall forward in the side, however i just think it would be at the expense of the rest of the side.

To me it would change the way we move the ball forward, we might develop blinkers for BH when going forward, and when it doesn't work you can't hide him or move him into a different role. I don't think he'd like going to bench for a spell either.

[LostDoggy]

mmmmm - I think no at this stage. We don't really need him. Plus if he himself says he can't guarantee another 'brain fade' then why would you even entertain the thought?
I'd hate for the Barry Hall 'ego' to drag us down, I really believe that the Western Bulldogs are a team of pretty good boys. I mean really, how often do you hear of a Doggies player getting into strife - footy related or not. (a-la Hall, Fevola etc....)
Apart from Wills little brain fade last year, for which he immediatley apologised for - that's really last thing I can think of that made any kind of news in the media.
If Barry joined it'd just pull the boys focus away from where they are supposed to be.

[bornadog]

Lets retire everyone over 30 then :rolleyes:
Boumann has to get a regular game for Williamstown 1sts before he will be considered.

Did I say that? I don't think so. What I am saying is I don't want to recruit any one over 33 to the club and waste a pick and send the wrong message to our young talls.

Barry Hall is a hot headed ageing footballer who Sydney no longer require and you say we should take him, no thank you we are not that desperate for a tall, otherwise we would have taken Thompson.

Boumann - I am talking future not this year.

and please don't roll your eyes at my opinions.

[Rocco Jones]

To me it would change the way we move the ball forward, we might develop blinkers for BH when going forward, and when it doesn't work you can't hide him or move him into a different role. I don't think he'd like going to bench for a spell either.

Using that logic we shouldn't go after Pav, Jon Brown or Riewoldt or hope that Ayce or Grant develop into a star.

Boy, oh boy do people overrate the last spot on an AFL list.

[Drunken Bum]

Did I say that? I don't think so. What I am saying is I don't want to recruit any one over 33 to the club and waste a pick and send the wrong message to our young talls.

Barry Hall is a hot headed ageing footballer who Sydney no longer require and you say we should take him, no thank you we are not that desperate for a tall, otherwise we would have taken Thompson.

What message is it sending to our younger talls?

Hall and Thompson are two completely different scenarios, each case must be judged on its merits.

Just for the record i voted yes for reasons that have already been mentioned by many others, thepositives outnumber the negatives by a long long way when what it will cost us and our current situation is taken into consideration

[Rocco Jones]

To all the auto no to Hall types, are you at all looking at his stats? Seriously, he absolutely eats apart anything we have to offer as a KP forward for the next two years.

STILL taking contested marks at an elite rate
STILL looking a 60 goal a year forward
At the Swans he played in a forward line that wasn't all about him, he will be well used to our forward line considering he played in a multi option forward line with ROK and Micky O.

I think we can win a flag without a KP forward but boy does having one help. How often does our forward line fall apart against the gun sides?

[bulldogtragic]

To all the auto no to Hall types, are you at all looking at his stats? Seriously, he absolutely eats apart anything we have to offer as a KP forward for the next two years.

STILL taking contested marks at an elite rate
STILL looking a 60 goal a year forward
At the Swans he played in a forward line that wasn't all about him, he will be well used to our forward line considering he played in a multi option forward line with ROK and Micky O.

I think we can win a flag without a KP forward but boy does having one help. How often does our forward line fall apart against the gun sides?
Last year's pre-lim. Wil Minson up forward has two crucial misses trying to play the 'tall' up forward.

Would you rather that or Barry Hall having those shots and that responsibility. Barry has at least one good year, especially with our delivery. If history was to repeat, i say we'd beat Geelong and would've played in the Grand Final as i reckon Barry would have nailed both very gettable shots, swung momentum our way and we would have just pipped Geelong for a Grand Final berth.

But as i keep saying, we are only risking our very last spot on the list and minimal money for a proven gun KPP forward. If he's injured or punches somebody, that's a risk you take. But we're not payin big bucks or taking a big risk. Where is the risk in taking Hall? Seriously?

[bulldogtragic]

He could be our Stuart Dew.

A retired big guy who can kick goals at the right time and can win matches, even grand finals (since he's been the winning captain of a premiership).

[Rocco Jones]

But as i keep saying, we are only risking our very last spot on the list and minimal money for a proven gun KPP forward. If he's injured or punches somebody, that's a risk you take. But we're not payin big bucks or taking a big risk. Where is the risk in taking Hall? Seriously?

I seriously think many have no idea about the worth of the last spot on the list. If we think our structure will fall apart because of Hall or he will ruin our positive club culture then we are stuffed anyway.

I truly find the "we will just focus on Hall too much" argument absolutely inane. Sides that do that are crappy by default (Richmond with Richo, Carlton with Fev). If get Hall, I see him playing a role similar to Mooney.

I seriously hope it doesn't take another prelim where we struggle to kick over 10 goals to make people realise how Hall might more worth more to our list than someone we will be able to get in the rookie draft anyway.

[LostDoggy]

I voted yes, and I used to know Barry socially a bit, he used to play up a fair bit when he played for the Saints, you would see him drinking at the Broadford pub the night before a game. As he got older, that all stopped.

However, he was always very passionate about the dogs, he was still a young player when it looked like the Saints would play the Dogs in 1997, he was beside himself.
He was always polite and friendly to the locals, there was never any airs and graces with him. We hardly ever see him as we have moved futher away, but when we do he always stops to speak to us.
When my son's team made the GF (his old team from Avenel) he rang up and wished them all the best.

I don't know why he is having these brain snaps, but the last two years has seen the demise of Sydney, they made the finals just last year, but won't this year. Hawthorn play unsociable footy which includes getting in your face, and he snapped. I don't know about West Coast.
Certainly a punch in the head can do some damage and that is a possibility for his lack of control one punch too many.
I still believe that having regular supply into the foward line, winning more games than losing, Rocket and the team's influence and wanting to redeem himself in his final year of footy will be enough on a performance based contract.

[Rocco Jones]

He could be our Stuart Dew.

A retired big guy who can kick goals at the right time and can win matches, even grand finals (since he's been the winning captain of a premiership).

Stuart Dew, Michael Gardiner and Stephen King. Ben Cousins would be seen in that light if any top side was brave enough to get him. But no, it's the last spot on your list! Geez, you could get the next Brad Symes with pick 88!!!

[Happy Days]

Stuart Dew, Michael Gardiner and Stephen King. Ben Cousins would be seen in that light if any top side was brave enough to get him. But no, it's the last spot on your list! Geez, you could get the next Brad Symes with pick 88!!!

The next Brian Lake with pick 72?

The next Chris Grant with pick 105?

The drafts over the next few years will be ravaged by the Gold Coast. We need as many picks as possible. This is why the Skipper trade is the only viable option; the Swans need a back up ruck and Skip is a classic Sydney recruit.

[Rocco Jones]

The next Brian Lake with pick 72?

The next Chris Grant with pick 105?

The drafts over the next few years will be ravaged by the Gold Coast. We need as many picks as possible. This is why the Skipper trade is the only viable option; the Swans need a back up ruck and Skip is a classic Sydney recruit.

Drafting today is A LOT different to 1988. Grant was 15 when we drafted him, these days we would be 2 years off being drafted. No chance we would be getting someone like Grant at 105, he would have had 2 more years in him and if he would have been an auto number one.

If you're available that late in a draft, it's extremely likely you will be available in the rookie draft.

Look it is a risk but a small risk compared to the outcome.

[Rocco Jones]

OK here's a scenario for posters with an auto no.

We lose our QF and PF in tough efforts similar to the PF last year, where we struggle to kick goals and our forward line structure falls apart. Do we look at him then?

[Happy Days]

Drafting today is A LOT different to 1988. Grant was 15 when we drafted him, these days we would be 2 years off being drafted.

I know, thats why I provided an additional example from 2001 ;)





If you're available that late in a draft, it's extremely likely you will be available in the rookie draft.

Look it is a risk but a small risk compared to the outcome.

There is only a limited number of spots available on the rookie list, and it wasn't that long ago we needed a tradie to give us the funds to get one. Draft picks are worth their weight in gold over the next few years, spending one on a 33 year old is not a smart, long term decision - Hall coming does not guarantee a premiership.

[Rocco Jones]

Look, no doubt that you can get a quality player with a 4th rounder but it is just about as likely as getting them with a 1st round rookie draft pick.

I seriously can't believe people rate the last spot on an AFL list so highly, Hall coming does not guarantee a premiership but if he helps our chances surely he is worth a punt. You mention that rookie list spots are limited, if you seriously think the opportunity to have an extra player on our rookie list is worth more than a player who can help us win a flag and help ride the enormous Gold Coast wave then I just guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I fear that a big charismatic and demanding key forward may actually destroy our "mojo".
When the ball comes in from the midfield at the moment no one knows where it's going.
Higgins? Aker? Gia? Johnno? Murph? Will? Mich? etc etc.
Panic sets in because, as a defender, you don't know who to cover.
Our forward line is slippery, flexible and POTENT.

Will our mid fielders start ignoring all the other leads because big bad Barry Hall is screaming for the ball?
Will all our small forwards stop leading and start trying to crumb off him?
Will we be easier to stop?

Why do we want him?
To kick goals.
Everything else is bluff and romance.

BUT WE KICK ENOUGH GOALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can talk about having a "presence" in the forward line or a "tall target as an option".
But that might just make the midfielders lazy.
"bomb it long to Hall" mentality may sink in.
Plenty of teams with talented big key forwards have languished in mediocrity for years. Look at Richo and Fev.

I'll say another thing about Hall. He's never been a strong contested mark. Despite his reputation he's never been a Richo or a Carey outmarking mobs of defenders.
He's pretty much a lead up and kick straight type.
And he's not a finals performer. His last grand final was disgraceful. Almost unforgiveable and I reckon it was the start of his slide into frustration and rage. His hands were like concrete, perhaps a glimpse of his future use of them.
No Hall.

[Rocco Jones]

I fear that a big charismatic and demanding key forward may actually destroy our "mojo".
When the ball comes in from the midfield at the moment no one knows where it's going.
Higgins? Aker? Gia? Johnno? Murph? Will? Mich? etc etc.
Panic sets in because, as a defender, you don't know who to cover.
Our forward line is slippery, flexible and POTENT.

Will our mid fielders start ignoring all the other leads because big bad Barry Hall is screaming for the ball?
Will all our small forwards stop leading and start trying to crumb off him?
Will we be easier to stop?


Is that what happened when Sydney won the flag? Barry Hall has been horribly disciplined when it comes to knocking people out this week but he isn't your Fev type FF who demands the ball at the cost of the team. He has played alongside two high quality forward targets in ROK and Micky O for the majority of his career.

Using that logic, would you want Pav, Brown or Riewoldt? Would you want Ayce or Grant to develop into a gun KP forward?



Why do we want him?
To kick goals.
Everything else is bluff and romance.

BUT WE KICK ENOUGH GOALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can talk about having a "presence" in the forward line or a "tall target as an option".
But that might just make the midfielders lazy.
"bomb it long to Hall" mentality may sink in.
Plenty of teams with talented big key forwards have languished in mediocrity for years. Look at Richo and Fev.

I'll say another thing about Hall. He's never been a strong contested mark.


Last year he had averaged the highest amount of contested marks per game and this year he is in the top ten for total contested marks in the league despite missing a few games. I think never been a strong contested mark is an extremely odd call to say the very least.

We kicked a lot of goals last year. It really helped us in the PF. You can ask Matthew Scarlett how highly he rates our forward line.

[Rocco Jones]

By the way I believe we can win a premiership with a KP forward but it's a bit like driving to town. There's more than one way to get there but sometimes the direct route is a good idea.

I asked the question a few posts ago. Say we miss out on a flag due to not being able to kick more than 10 goals. Still not up for trading nothing for a quality KP forward? Geelong's defence is a little different to Port Adelaide and Hawthorn 2009 guys.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I watch the games and he is not a great pack busting contested mark despite what the stats say.

[Rocco Jones]

I watch the games and he is not a great pack busting contested mark despite what the stats say.

LMAO I guess everyone can have an opinion. So does Hall have any positive quality? Had a pretty good career for such a dud huh?

Despite what all the stats say, I watch the game and think Chris Judd is a rubbish midfielder!

Some are saying don't get too romantic, I think a lot are letting their hatred towards Hall get in the way.

[Dancin' Douggy]

LMAO I guess everyone can have an opinion. So does Hall have any positive quality? Had a pretty good career for such a dud huh?

Some are saying don't get too romantic, I think a lot are letting their hatred towards Hall get in the way.

Yes. He WAS an excellent lead up straight kicking forward. And he was excellent at punching people who weren't looking at him.

[Rocco Jones]

Yes. He WAS an excellent lead up straight kicking forward. And he was excellent at punching people who weren't looking at him.

OK.

So say we do what we did last year and struggle to kick a goal when it matters. Still no interest?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Is that what happened when Sydney won the flag? Barry Hall has been horribly disciplined when it comes to knocking people out this week but he isn't your Fev type FF who demands the ball at the cost of the team. He has played alongside two high quality forward targets in ROK and Micky O for the majority of his career.

Using that logic, would you want Pav, Brown or Riewoldt? Would you want Ayce or Grant to develop into a gun KP forward?




Last year he had averaged the highest amount of contested marks per game and this year he is in the top ten for total contested marks in the league despite missing a few games. I think never been a strong contested mark is an extremely odd call to say the very least.

We kicked a lot of goals last year. It really helped us in the PF. You can ask Matthew Scarlett how highly he rates our forward line.
we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

[Dancin' Douggy]

LMAO I guess everyone can have an opinion. So does Hall have any positive quality? Had a pretty good career for such a dud huh?

Despite what all the stats say, I watch the game and think Chris Judd is a rubbish midfielder!

Some are saying don't get too romantic, I think a lot are letting their hatred towards Hall get in the way.

I have noticed that people who generally use this post aren't trapped by the devotion to 'stats' that the average bozo is. Barry Hall is not a great contested mark in the mould of Riewoldt or Richo. Maybe a Sydney statistician is doing the numbers.
Maybe there was someone standing close enough to him often enough to push his Contested marks rating up. Not very hard at the SCG.

[Rocco Jones]

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

Yep I agree and ironically enough I have been on the small forward lines can win flags side of arguments for so long. I definitely believe you don't have to have a KP forward to win a flag.

A factor I really rate is that Hall was part of a multiple avenues to goal forward line at Swans. While he has been very selfish in the obvious manner, he isn't the type of KP who dominates a forward line.

Last year we struggled to kick goals against the Cats in the PF despite playing well. I am not so sure our forward line will be as effectively against the Cats and Saints.

[Rocco Jones]

I have noticed that people who generally use this post aren't trapped by the devotion to 'stats' that the average bozo is. Barry Hall is not a great contested mark in the mould of Riewoldt or Richo. Maybe a Sydney statistician is doing the numbers.
Maybe there was someone standing close enough to him often enough to push his Contested marks rating up. Not very hard at the SCG.

I definitely think Hall's contested mark ability is at least strong enough to be a quality KP forward. Is "great" your benchmark for being worth the last spot on a list?

[Stefcep]

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

Thats my main concern. In effect we end up being too focused on Hall and ignore the other forward options. At the moment our mids look for a forward, any forward, because they know that any one of12 players can play there and can be goal kickers, there's no preference who they kick to.

What do we expect the tangible result of having Hall in the side to be? He might kick 3-4 goals, but take 3-4 goals off the other forwards.

I think as a rule if you kick more than 100 points, you'll win the game. We have the players to do that. Look at St Kilda: Kozzie and Reiwoldt, two tall KPF at least as good as Hall but they have scored less than us. Kicking goals are not the problem- only Geelong has scored more than us, 10 points at that. But of the top 5 sides we have conceded more than anyone, 400 points more than St Kilda. IMHO we lack a key position defender, not a KPF.

[bulldogtragic]

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.
Quick Rocco, gave Bomber a call and tell them to drop Mooney and Hawkins/Gamble and don't worry about bringing Ottens back. Because a very talented midfield that kicks goals wont win Grand Finals. That must explain why Geelong lost last year.

Wait a second, how tall is Buddy and Roughy again?

If your mids can kick goals, then let them kick goals like Ablet and co do. Like Cooney and co do.

I'm sorry that is the worst argument i've just about seen - dropping a tall KPP might unbalance the team because it is based around the rotaton on small highly skilled players.

Rocco, after you finish with Bomber, call me, Fantasia and Eade - it's time for a conference call. I fear Cordy, Grant, Jones and Roughy are going to bring this club to it's knees by unbalancing the side. Perhaps we can get Jordy back, it's never too late!!!!

And then i'll call the AFL and Calder Cannons and say we don't want those two potential first round picks in two years, because we don't want the ability to have depth so we can top up a year or two early with a tall like Ottens or Dew - Those tall goal kicking tall guys wouldn't take a contender to premier....


I mean say no, say he's an idiot, he can't be trusted. But we've got some very bright f/s selections to buffer us in 18 months, which means we can afford to retire Welsh and replace him with another forward. And still have three picks. And if Aker and/or Lynch go, we may have 5 picks. 3 of our rookie's time is up too. So we could move up to 9 players with Hall included.

Our window for a premiership is now. Hall has one perhaps two years left. He can then leave, take up boxing and then Grant, Cordy and Jones can take over with the benefit of him always taking the best defender.

Like it or not, i firmly beleive like Rocco, Barry Hall kicking for goal in last years PF in lieu of Wilbur might have been the difference in playing in the GF. That's not Wilbur's fault, well he did miss twice at crucial times.

Again, what is the worst thing that could happen by giving him Welsh's spot when he retires at years end?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Rocco. In a nutshell, YES.
What about the whole other point I'm trying to raise about him possibly upsetting the balance of our game plan? Do you think there's absolutely no validity to that concern?

I remember the Crows trading for Wayne Carey because they thought they were close to a flag.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Quick Rocco, gave Bomber a call and tell them to drop Mooney and Hawkins/Gamble and don't worry about bringing Ottens back. Because a very talented midfield that kicks goals wont win Grand Finals. That must explain why Geelong lost last year.

Wait a second, how tall is Buddy and Roughy again?

If your mids can kick goals, then let them kick goals like Ablet and co do. Like Cooney and co do.

I'm sorry that is the worst argument i've just about seen - dropping a tall KPP might unbalance the team because it is based around the rotaton on small highly skilled players.

Rocco, after you finish with Bomber, call me, Fantasia and Eade - it's time for a conference call. I fear Cordy, Grant, Jones and Roughy are going to bring this club to it's knees by unbalancing the side. Perhaps we can get Jordy back, it's never too late!!!!

And then i'll call the AFL and Calder Cannons and say we don't want those two potential first round picks in two years, because we don't want the ability to have depth so we can top up a year or two early with a tall like Ottens or Dew - Those tall goal kicking tall guys wouldn't take a contender to premier....


I mean say no, say he's an idiot, he can't be trusted. But we've got some very bright f/s selections to buffer us in 18 months, which means we can afford to retire Welsh and replace him with another forward. And still have three picks. And if Aker and/or Lynch go, we may have 5 picks. 3 of our rookie's time is up too. So we could move up to 9 players with Hall included.

Our window for a premiership is now. Hall has one perhaps two years left. He can then leave, take up boxing and then Grant, Cordy and Jones can take over with the benefit of him always taking the best defender.

Like it or not, i firmly beleive like Rocco, Barry Hall kicking for goal in last years PF in lieu of Wilbur might have been the difference in playing in the GF. That's not Wilbur's fault, well he did miss twice at crucial times.

Again, what is the worst thing that could happen by giving him Welsh's spot when he retires at years end?

Crows. Carey

[Mofra]

Will our mid fielders start ignoring all the other leads because big bad Barry Hall is screaming for the ball?
Will all our small forwards stop leading and start trying to crumb off him?
Will we be easier to stop?

We are a much better forward line now we share it around - if you remember, we used to be very Johnno focussed. I doubt we'd go back to being so focussed on a single forward, considering we broke the mold.

Do people really think Hall will destroy our forwardline structure?


BUT WE KICK ENOUGH GOALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In H&A yes, however you might want to check our finals averages over our recent history.


You can talk about having a "presence" in the forward line or a "tall target as an option".
But that might just make the midfielders lazy.
"bomb it long to Hall" mentality may sink in.
Plenty of teams with talented big key forwards have languished in mediocrity for years. Look at Richo and Fev.
So Richmond & Carlton have midfields as skilled as ours, they're just "lazy"?

You honestly think Conney/Griffen/Higgo will be streaming through the middle, and think "stuff a direct pass, I can't be bothered, I'll just bomb it to the square"?

You do realise we are detsroying the assist stats this year right? Precision passing doesn't dissipate due to "laziness".


I'll say another thing about Hall. He's never been a strong contested mark. Despite his reputation he's never been a Richo or a Carey outmarking mobs of defenders.
He's pretty much a lead up and kick straight type.

Our forwards generally are. So a forward that plays to our strengths will somehow completely destroy our structure? Maybe we should trade Grant & Cordy now, as they will lead as forwards too. Heaven forbid.


And he's not a finals performer. His last grand final was disgraceful. Almost unforgiveable and I reckon it was the start of his slide into frustration and rage. His hands were like concrete, perhaps a glimpse of his future use of them.
No Hall.
I believe his GF performance the year before was a bit better than average.

Why are people so anti-tall forward?

[Bulldog Joe]

It is an interesting conundrum.

Would Hall improve our side /

Would his presence help or hinder Grant/Cordy/Roughead/Jones/Boumann and their ultimate development.

I am not equipped to have an opinion, but I would trust that Rocket is best placed to assess what Barry could bring and would also understand how he may help/limit the progress of the younger brigade.

There is no doubt that Hall has a presence that keeps opposition on their toes, but issue that needs to be addressed is how he can fit into the list. My understanding is that we need to create a minimum of 3 spots for draftees. I would not like Hall to take one of those as we already have a significant number of players who will be 28 or older in 2010 unless we get some retirements.

Could we trade for Cam Wight, who has certainly stagnated but is capable of playing senior footy and probably needs a new environment. Cam is hardly more error prone than Ted Richards. Sydney will not drive a hard bargain as he is lost to them regardless. It is then just finding a player they would accept that we are prepared to give up, if Fantasia and Eade decide to give Barry a chance.

A contract for Hall could only be minimum standard with performance payments and a termination clause if he misbehaves.

Would Mitch Hahn be too much to trade ?

[Mofra]

Could we trade for Cam Wight, who has certainly stagnated but is capable of playing senior footy and probably needs a new environment.
If Cam Wight was on the Sydney list, would you trade for him?

[Rocco Jones]

Why are people so anti-tall forward?

I think because Bulldogs fans have had to defend not having a tall forward for so long that they see wanting one as selling out.

I both think that we can win a flag without one AND that one would help us.

If our forward line structure goes to water just because we are added a KP forward to it I would hate to see what happens when it comes up against a high quality backline. If it all falls apart because we add a forward KP than it was never that strong to start off with.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry, that is the worst argument i've seen, now. Carey rooted his best man wife in a toilet with his team mates around was out for basicly an entire year. With a back injury too.

If the litmus test is being out of the game for 1/3 of a year, Akermanis did it a few years and has won about 10 games for us off his own boot.

So by that logic if we get Barry, he will win us 10 games in the next two years.

Yeah, i love your logic, it proves the theory:

barry + bulldogs = 10 more wins.

Mate, i have no issue with opposing viewpoints but some of this shit your typing is just that, shit.

And as for the Crows, taking Carey is effecting their tilt at a premiership this year or their performances prior. What did recruiting Wayne Carey do to Adelaide that was so bad, we need to learn from their mistake???

We learnt Akermanis can leave a club at this point in the season and perform well in the next two.

So what the hell do the crows regret?

[Rocco Jones]

If Cam Wight was on the Sydney list, would you trade for him?

I find trading out Wight call an odd one. We can virtually do it anyway. Delist Wight and give the Swans a draft pick we can't use anyway.

[Mofra]

I find trading out Wight call an odd one. We can virtually do it anyway. Delist Wight and give the Swans a draft pick we can't use anyway.
I don't think it matters - I'd expect him to go PSD.

[bulldogtragic]

If Cam Wight was on the Sydney list, would you trade for him?
4th rounder. They'll take it unless they want Skipper.

Or he can go PSD and nominate boxing or us and they get nothing.

As for other coments, Hall taking the bigger, stronger defender every week will improve our young talls becuase they will get smaller and lighter defenders like Mackie rather than Scarlett. They can grow into AFL footy, get used to the pace and what they have to do and see how Barry does it. It's a good thing.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And as for the Crows, taking Carey is effecting their tilt at a premiership this year or their performances prior. What did recruiting Wayne Carey do to Adelaide that was so bad, we need to learn from their mistake???

...

So what the hell do the crows regret?

Trading pick 4 to get him?

[Dancin' Douggy]

We are a much better forward line now we share it around - if you remember, we used to be very Johnno focussed. I doubt we'd go back to being so focussed on a single forward, considering we broke the mold.

Do people really think Hall will destroy our forwardline structure?


In H&A yes, however you might want to check our finals averages over our recent history.


So Richmond & Carlton have midfields as skilled as ours, they're just "lazy"?

You honestly think Conney/Griffen/Higgo will be streaming through the middle, and think "stuff a direct pass, I can't be bothered, I'll just bomb it to the square"?

You do realise we are detsroying the assist stats this year right? Precision passing doesn't dissipate due to "laziness".


Our forwards generally are. So a forward that plays to our strengths will somehow completely destroy our structure? Maybe we should trade Grant & Cordy now, as they will lead as forwards too. Heaven forbid.


I believe his GF performance the year before was a bit better than average.

Why are people so anti-tall forward?

Thanks Mofra for some nicely balanced arguments.
I guess what we're talking about here is not "tall forwards" but Barry Hall.
My concern is that he'd be too big a presence. As opposed to someone who rises through the ranks like any other tall forward on our list.
I think there's a genuine possibility that we might become Barry focused and if we do it could be detrimental to the team.
There seems to be a lot of people who think having Barry on the list will guarantee a premiership. If he could deliver one of course I'd have him.

[Stefcep]

Quick Rocco, gave Bomber a call and tell them to drop Mooney and Hawkins/Gamble and don't worry about bringing Ottens back. Because a very talented midfield that kicks goals wont win Grand Finals. That must explain why Geelong lost last year.

Wait a second, how tall is Buddy and Roughy again?

If your mids can kick goals, then let them kick goals like Ablet and co do. Like Cooney and co do.




Buddy and Roughy are TWO KPF's. Hall would be the sole KPF in the side. A bit like Pavlich at Freo and Fev at Carlton. And where are they? And no its not just about having our gun midfielders that Freo and carlton don't: Carlton have the equal of any midfield, but where are they? With Hall, I can see us being one dimensional, and very predictable: hall leads (probabaly slower in 9 months time than he is now) and the mids trying to hit him on the chest. He won't take the grab in the pack from one of Griffens moon balls. You think the opposition won't be awake to that?

its not just about the mids kicking goals, its about all the forwards being capable of kicking 2-4 goals that makes us second only to Geelong in scored for stats.

With the tall kids coming through, I believe the game style will change to waht we are playing now. Whether its more effective remains to be seen.

[Bulldog Joe]

If Cam Wight was on the Sydney list, would you trade for him?

Sydney have done pretty well with players who seem to be struggling. Was Ted Richards really looking much better at Essendon ?

[Rocco Jones]

I don't think it matters - I'd expect him to go PSD.

Yep that's right. If we want him, we will virtually get him for the last person we delist.

[Rocco Jones]

What about what Hall has been like as an actual forward line member at the Swans. I don't think he has ever been selfish outside of getting himself into trouble with the tribunal. He has been great with ROK and Micky O, an extremely different player to Fev for example.

[bulldogtragic]

Trading pick 4 to get him?
So we learnt not to trade our first rounder for Barry. Ok, i shall send an email to Rodney :)

I wouldn't have thought they regret it, sometimes you have to take a punt. For Carey who didn't win them a premiership, Ottens and Dew did.

Regret is not doing stupid things or if things dont go according to plan. Regret is when you didn't take an opportunity. Barry Hall for free in PSD on a low contract is an opportunity. If he came out and said boxing or bulldogs and we knocked him back because 'Adelaide didn't get sufficient value from a player who spent 12 months out of the game', i would quite upset. If we pass for other reasons fine, Carey is one of the best ever players to play the game and deserved that pick.

Tim Walsh and Sam Power didn't do much for us either, doesn't mean we stop making selections in the first round.

[bulldogtragic]

Buddy and Roughy are TWO KPF's. Hall would be the sole KPF in the side. A bit like Pavlich at Freo and Fev at Carlton. And where are they? And no its not just about having our gun midfielders that Freo and carlton don't: Carlton have the equal of any midfield, but where are they? With Hall, I can see us being one dimensional, and very predictable: hall leads (probabaly slower in 9 months time than he is now) and the mids trying to hit him on the chest. He won't take the grab in the pack from one of Griffens moon balls. You think the opposition won't be awake to that?

its not just about the mids kicking goals, its about all the forwards being capable of kicking 2-4 goals that makes us second only to Geelong in scored for stats.

With the tall kids coming through, I believe the game style will change to waht we are playing now. Whether its more effective remains to be seen.
So having a decent tall option will ruin our gameplan. Minson rests down forward and Hudson goaled against Port.

I'd like to rate our players as smart enough to take the best option be it have a shot themselves, kick to hall, or say Josh Hill who leads the other way because they are trying to double team Barry.

We have Bob Murphy who plays a little like ROk, in the lead up and quick play on and a heap of smalls and a great sidekick called Johno, like Mickey O' was. Yet they won a premiership with that gameplan.

I can't beleive Eade would rain the players to only kick to Barry everytime. There's 1000 goals between Welsh and Johno, yet we don't always kick it to them. We take the best option. And if Hall can provide another decent option, and a tall one, to bring small forward into the game as crumbers, just not Matty Robbins style lead/mark players, then that's a good thing. If he takes the main defenders while the pups grow even better.

If he comes free in the PSD on limited cash, fantastic.

I just look the worse case scenario, and can't see what is so bad about it, we would turn ours backs on it without serious consideration and due diligence.

[Dancin' Douggy]

The initial idea if this thread was a simple yes or no.
Then people start arguing their personal standpoints and before you know it it's all out war.
I vote no because I fell we're developing well as a team.
(this is in the hazy glow of an 88 point win)
I fear that the chemistry of the team could be unbalanced by the introduction of a larger than life, intimidating character.
After listening to all the arguments and emotion I guess I'd take him if it cost us nothing and would hope our strong leadership group and coaching staff would make sure that the team viewed him as nothing more than one of many avenues to goal.
I would just hate to be at the footy watching leads from Aker, Johnno, Murph and Gia being ignored because Barry is Bigger and louder.
(I don't think this is an unreasonable fear)

[Sockeye Salmon]

,
Tim Walsh and Sam Power didn't do much for us either, doesn't mean we stop making selections in the first round.

Tim Walsh was that no 4 pick that Adelaide gave up for Carey!

Carey played more games for Adelaide than Walsh did for us.







* Richmond traded pick 4 to Adelaide for Kane Johnson
Adelaide traded pick 4 to North for Carey
Carlton lost two picks for being cheats so North's pick 4 became pick 2
North pick Daniel Wells.

[Throughandthrough]

If we recruit Barry Hall

IF we pass on a young kid to draft an old war horse

IF he gets suspended twice during the year

IF we win the flag next year with Hall at full forward

IF he retires after the grand final, the same time as Acka and Johnno

IF we come bottom the year after

I'll be the happiest bloke in Australia for the rest of my life......................

[macca]

Tim Walsh was that no 4 pick that Adelaide gave up for Carey!

Carey played more games for Adelaide than Walsh did for us.

* Richmond traded pick 4 to Adelaide for Kane Johnson
Adelaide traded pick 4 to North for Carey
Carlton lost two picks for being cheats so North's pick 4 became pick 2
North pick Daniel Wells.

But out of all that, Richmond was the real winner, because they got a captain, and someone who played over 100 games , everyone else was cursed. Carey brought bad karma, Walsh was just unlucky, and Daniel Wells hasn't really set the world alight.

if you can get 100 quality cames from a round 4 pick, thats not a bad deal, compared against the palyers mentioned. He would've played more games if the tigers weren't such a rabble.

[Sockeye Salmon]

But out of all that, Richmond was the real winner, because they got a captain, and someone who played over 100 games , everyone else was cursed. Carey brought bad karma, Walsh was just unlucky, and Daniel Wells hasn't really set the world alight.

if you can get 100 quality cames from a round 4 pick, thats not a bad deal, compared against the palyers mentioned. He would've played more games if the tigers weren't such a rabble.

North were the winners, Wells could still be a player, Johnson was poo. How embarassing to have him as your captain.

Worse than Richie Vandenburg.

[boydogs]

Gogriff, please see my responses below in bold.

Just a few counter-arguments to stimulate further discussion :D

Good counters ;)
I still have my reservations though


1) He said he can't trust himself, not sure then how we are supposed to
That’s why you wait until the end of the year and see where he’s at.

I wouldn't say Yes to Barry unless he can come out and say he really wants the chance to redeem himself and believes he can keep himself in check. He hasn't done that yet so I couldn't say Yes for that reason alone


3) He has priors at the tribunal that will guarantee long suspensions for any indiscretions
Yep, it’s a risk

5) His age means he is more susceptable to injury
Yep, it’s a risk, but see above

We may not get too many games out of him, and having him in and out of the side will unsettle us


11) He could damage our clean reputation with continued indiscretions
He could enhance our reputation if we manage to keep him on the straight and narrow

12) Opposition players know he can be easily aggrevated and will be able to put him off his game and get him to give away frees & 50s and get suspended
That’s a risk with all aggressive players - we all love big Will

Very significant risks. WOOFers have been arguing that the risks are low because of an anticipated low cost to get him, but ask yourself why are Sydney getting rid of him, mid season no less.


7) He will probably replace Welsh
How’s that a bad thing? If Welsh retires, we’ll have a hole in our forward line.

18) Our forward line is currently working well as it is, we should not disrupt this for a single season
Good point and it’s one that our footy department needs to weigh up. Rocket has been quoted as saying he’d love a power forward but we just don’t have one so we’ve been forced to adapt.

The forward line structure would not be much different if Hall was to push Welsh out, but then we are exposed if Hall is injured or suspended - another risk


17) He would receive even more media attention in Melbourne and would be distracted
Pure speculation.

Adelaide Connection may be able to vouch for this having visited last weekend, Melbourne media coverage of the AFL is greater than in other states. If he can't handle one journo at the airport he will have difficulty with this (isn't that why if went up to Sydney?)


19) Eade's focus would be taken away from team success to managing Hall
Again, pure speculation. Rocket is a master coach and a great man manager – I’d back him to be able to do both.

Sticking to my guns on this one. Leigh Matthews would have felt a huge weight lift from his shoulders when Aker went

[Desipura]

I have a solution that will please everyone, win this years premiership then don't worry about getting Barry Hall!

[Mofra]

I have a solution that will please everyone, win this years premiership then don't worry about getting Barry Hall!
Not as silly as it sounds - our forwardline has performed extremely well over the past 3 years in the H&A series, but output has dropped dramatically in finals.
If it stands up in the finals series this year that coudl really put the club off taking Hall.

[Mofra]

Thanks Mofra for some nicely balanced arguments.
I guess what we're talking about here is not "tall forwards" but Barry Hall.

I can understand, however we are unlikely to have the oppotunity to take another top line tall (I don't think we need another Rawlings, Morgan, Bandy, Hunter etc etc).
Hall would cost nothing and fill the gap between 2010 & the development of a Grant, Cordy or Roughead (even though Roughy will be more ruckman than forward)


My concern is that he'd be too big a presence. As opposed to someone who rises through the ranks like any other tall forward on our list.
I think there's a genuine possibility that we might become Barry focused and if we do it could be detrimental to the team.

Aker wrote an article the year before last syaing Johnson demanded the ball so loudly he'd often kick it to him even when other forwards were in a better position. That was the year Johnson was in the top few for the Coleman.
Since then we share it around alot more and our forward structure seems more effective, so there is a precident set showing we wont become too focussed on a single forward.


There seems to be a lot of people who think having Barry on the list will guarantee a premiership. If he could deliver one of course I'd have him.
I'm not sure about guarantee, however our forwardline output seems to drop in finals, and as much as I like the fact that Will has learnt to mark a ball, Hall can play either as a hard lead up forward or deep forcing a contest when the opposiiton defensive zone has clogged our F50. Will is clearly a ruckman first, forward second.
He would add another dimention to our forwardline that I believe wouldn't add too much during the H&A season (he would help, but I wouldn't expect 22 games from him) but could give us that edge in the finals.

If we had to trade a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him I'd say no, but I think he'll cost next to nothing and the pros outweigh the cons.

[Sedat]

I have a solution that will please everyone, win this years premiership then don't worry about getting Barry Hall!
How about win this year's premiership, get Hall to the club (assuming body and mind are 100% ready to go), and win again in 2010.

[comrade]

The anti-Hall movement is growing, with the poll starting to tighten up.

Yes reached a height of 70% yesterday, but has dropped to 58% over the day.

No is now sitting at 41%.

[Desipura]

How about win this year's premiership, get Hall to the club (assuming body and mind are 100% ready to go), and win again in 2010.

If we did win it, I could almost bet my house we would not get Hall

[bulldogtragic]

Tim Walsh was that no 4 pick that Adelaide gave up for Carey!

Carey played more games for Adelaide than Walsh did for us.







* Richmond traded pick 4 to Adelaide for Kane Johnson
Adelaide traded pick 4 to North for Carey
Carlton lost two picks for being cheats so North's pick 4 became pick 2
North pick Daniel Wells.
So selecting Carey was a masterstroke :)

By the logic of past posts, that means we must select Hall no matter what :)

[mighty_west]

The question is, who playing at full forward would give us a better chance of Premiership glory in 2010, ScottyWelsh or Barry Hall?

Welsh is a risk and was a risk when selecting him in the PSD because of his back issues, has never really been injury free throughout his career, Hall is a risk with his temper issues, both will only cost us the last spot on the list, it's not as though we are giving up development for ageing players, we have some extremely promising kids coming through that won't be ready & demanding a senior spot for at least 2 years plus, we will again keep our best picks in the draft and we will do well in recruiting the following year with all those GC concessions with 2 very exciting father / son selections.

IF Hall can play the way he has this year, no longer relying on a resting ruckman in Minson to take big grabs, i am tipping the likes of Geelong & Saints & Hawks etc would have real concerns with us as a team as a REAL genuine threat.

[AndrewP6]

The anti-Hall movement is growing, with the poll starting to tighten up.

Yes reached a height of 70% yesterday, but has dropped to 58% over the day.

No is now sitting at 41%.

61% yes now..

[bulldogtragic]

The anti-Hall movement is growing, with the poll starting to tighten up.

Yes reached a height of 70% yesterday, but has dropped to 58% over the day.

No is now sitting at 41%.
Everyone knows 91% of all stats are meaningless Comrade :)

But if this we're a federal or state election, Hall at 60% would have a larger majority than the ALP both nationally and state. Anyone know Antony Green from the ABC to give us detailed feedback on results?


And as a side note on politics, what the hell was KRudd's jibberish in Germany when addressing the German press & the Chancellor KRudd said it was unlikely any progress would emerge from the Major Economies Forum "by way of detailed programmatic specificity".

WTF???

[whythelongface]

No for mine
TCD I see your 10 and raise you to 20

1) He said he can't trust himself, not sure then how we are supposed to
Send him to a good pyschiatrist. Get them to sort out his problems - problem solved.

2) He said he can't see himself playing at another club lining up against Sydney
No problems - he can sit out those games -they won't make the finals next year anyway so no problem.

3) He has priors at the tribunal that will guarantee long suspensions for any indiscretions
If this is the case and he is suspend we resort back to Plan B -our current forward line or a younger option.

4) He is getting old in AFL terms thus not as athletic as in earlier years
FF - look at Alistair Lynch - 3 times prem player in his mid thirties

5) His age means he is more susceptable to injury
Probably - but at FF he is less susceptible

6) Missing the last 8 games this season he may be injured coming back ala Cousins
Missing the last 8 games may also freshen him up

7) He will probably replace Welsh
Maybe. Maybe not - Welsh could still play a pocket role

8) He will only be around for a year or two
Our premiership window

9) In his limited time he may not be very effective, still adjusting to his environment and game plan ala Aker
Take the chance only time will tell

10) He would take game time away from our developing forwards
He will also provide plenty of experince as well - experience our developing forwards can learn from.

11) An alternate player from the pick we use to get him will be lost
Probably get him in the PSD.

11) He could damage our clean reputation with continued indiscretions
It will be great to support a team that others ala the Libba era when there were numerous on-field indiscretions

12) Opposition players know he can be easily aggrevated and will be able to put him off his game and get him to give away frees & 50s and get suspended
The major flaw in his game. His positives outweigh his negatives.

13) He would take the media attention away from positives at the club
His indiscretions are purely on-field - should have little impact

14) We don't need the speculation on getting him to distract us this year
Our players are professionals, doubt this will affect them.

15) We don't need the speculation on his behaviour to distract us next year
see point 14

16) We don't want to send a message to the group that we need to take such a risk to be successful
Hardly a risk - we speculated on Aker and we were well aware of his reputation prior to coming to our club

17) He would receive even more media attention in Melbourne and would be distracted
Probably will receive extra attention - potentally a distraction.

18) Our forward line is currently working well as it is, we should not disrupt this for a single season
We have at times struggled with our style of football when it comes to delivery into the forward line. Having Hall presents us with another option.

19) Eade's focus would be taken away from team success to managing Hall

Doubt it. He has issues on the field. Eade is to professional to let these incidents distract him from his main focus.

20) He would be doing it to redeem himself and not for a premiership ala Pavlich
I would say that he would love to be part of another premiership team.


Positives far outweigh the negatives. So yes I would take him.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Positives far outweigh the negatives. So yes I would take him.

Yes I'm in for the Big Bulldog coming out of the square! I think he would be a cheap pick up and rocket would get a good result out of him.

[BulldogBelle]

An informal and additional boxing coach will always be welcomed by the club

[comrade]

The voting seems to have slowed down with Yes clearly the most popular choice, sitting at 62%.

It seems the majority of WOOF believe Barry should be at the Kennel next year.

[Mantis]

An informal and additional boxing coach will always be welcomed by the club

And there I was thinking that Ryan Hargrave was doing a damn fine job in the role.

[BulldogBelle]

After tonight, come on in Bazza.

[bulldogtragic]

If this poll is not above 70% after tonight, we are kidding ourselves.

[bulldogtragic]

Back to nearly 63%...

[Rocco Jones]

Interesting how ineffective our forward line structure was tonight when we played quality opposition. I know we scored 110 points but simply judging your forward line/defence on your for/againist means totally ignoring the affect of your midfield. Our midfield gives more support to our forwards than defenders. We comfortably had more inside 50's than Collingwood, we even lead them for inside 50's at 3/4 time.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting how ineffective our forward line structure was tonight when we played quality opposition. I know we scored 110 points but simply judging your forward line/defence on your for/againist means totally ignoring the affect of your midfield. Our midfield gives more support to our forwards than defenders. We comfortably had more inside 50's than Collingwood, we even lead them for inside 50's at 3/4 time.
I can't recall how many 'hail mary' long bombs went into our forward line to a small player who was double teamed. Yet a gorilla KPP forward like Barry Hall wouldn't have made a difference in the result and we shouldn't get him? For real? Hill on Harry O and Maxwell with a high ball without support has no chance. Barry Hall, has a much, much better chance. Tonight's forward 50 dominance led by hail marys shows why we need a gorilla forward. Its all well and good to have smalls kicking goals. That wouldnt change with having Barry. What would change is when we send in the hail mary, we have someone who might answer our prayers, not give up possession and allow the opposition to rebound and score va turnover which is killing us.

[G-Mo77]

And there I was thinking that Ryan Hargrave was doing a damn fine job in the role.

I'll never forget that punch on Heath Black. Nice clean shot to the jaw and dropped him like a sack of spuds. He got up and didn't know who hit him. :D

[The Underdog]

To be honest I just find it a bit boring that we're discussing recruiting in July when there is still 7+ weeks of a perfectly good season to go. Maybe at the end of the season we should re-evaluate our needs. Obviously we all want to find a way to make our team better but if we win the GF or even make it will the vote still be at 60% then? Also who knows who becomes available between now and then. Maybe Barry becomes a 2nd rate option.

[Before I Die]

Interesting how ineffective our forward line structure was tonight when we played quality opposition. I know we scored 110 points but simply judging your forward line/defence on your for/againist means totally ignoring the affect of your midfield. Our midfield gives more support to our forwards than defenders. We comfortably had more inside 50's than Collingwood, we even lead them for inside 50's at 3/4 time.

I cannot agree. Malthouse teams have always attacked from the half back line. His West Coast teams won premierships despite consistently losing the centre clearances. Inside 50's are not an appropriate measure against a Malthouse coached team. There was regularly over 30 players in our forward line whenever we had the ball tonight. I also thought Harry O, Maxwell and Presti were very good for Collinwood. Given this, plus the congestion and the lack of run from our mids tonight, I would contend that our forward line showed just how versatile and dangerous it is.

[AndrewP6]

To be honest I just find it a bit boring that we're discussing recruiting in July when there is still 7+ weeks of a perfectly good season to go. Maybe at the end of the season we should re-evaluate our needs. Obviously we all want to find a way to make our team better but if we win the GF or even make it will the vote still be at 60% then? Also who knows who becomes available between now and then. Maybe Barry becomes a 2nd rate option.

We're just trying to have some fun...:)

GF looking unlikely, IMHO...

[The Underdog]

We're just trying to have some fun...:)

GF looking unlikely, IMHO...

I'm just looking forward to the day when we have quality key position players and no decent mids. That discussion is going to be hilarious :).

GF always looks unlikely, we barrack for the Bulldogs.

[Mantis]

Interesting how ineffective our forward line structure was tonight when we played quality opposition. I know we scored 110 points but simply judging your forward line/defence on your for/againist means totally ignoring the affect of your midfield. Our midfield gives more support to our forwards than defenders. We comfortably had more inside 50's than Collingwood, we even lead them for inside 50's at 3/4 time.

I don't think our structure was poor I just think our players within that structure were (poor).

[The Coon Dog]

I don't think our structure was poor I just think our players within that structure were (poor).

Particularly in the first half allowing Maxwell to continually get free, bit like Goddard when we played St.Kilda.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Our main forward line problem was we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn by foot.

5 misses from inside 30m while Collingwood nailed everything. Higgins missing from 20 out, Minson kicking into the man on the mark, Griffen kicking floaters.


Scott Welsh went missing completely when the pressure was on again. His record in big games is absymal. Josh Hill is another who is worrying me when it gets tough.


While I would still love a big forward, that wasn't the reason we lost last night.

[Desipura]

Our main forward line problem was we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn by foot.

5 misses from inside 30m while Collingwood nailed everything. Higgins missing from 20 out, Minson kicking into the man on the mark, Griffen kicking floaters.


Scott Welsh went missing completely when the pressure was on again. His record in big games is absymal. Josh Hill is another who is worrying me when it gets tough.


While I would still love a big forward, that wasn't the reason we lost last night.
To be fair to the opposition Swan missed an easy goal from 20 metres and Cloke missed one in the last qtr from 25 metres

[Sockeye Salmon]

To be fair to the opposition Swan missed an easy goal from 20 metres and Cloke missed one in the last qtr from 25 metres

They also pulled about half a dozen out of their arse.

[Desipura]

They also pulled about half a dozen out of their arse.
You cant be talking about Davis, he has been doing it consistently this year.

[Rocco Jones]

I don't think our structure was poor I just think our players within that structure were (poor).

I agree with that comment.

I actually like our forward line and think we can win a flag with it. I just guess I am more commenting in reply to those who almost see a non-KP forward structure as ideal.

[Mofra]

Scott Welsh went missing completely when the pressure was on again. His record in big games is absymal. Josh Hill is another who is worrying me when it gets tough.
Barry Hall would be picked ahead of both on current form. That is probably as telling as it gets.

[Rocco Jones]

Not trying to be a smarty pants but genuinely wonder if anyone has changed their mind about whether it's a good idea for us to go after Hall.

[Mantis]

I hope we don't chase him or any other key forward.

(Only because this will put one of our senior posters in jail)

[Remi Moses]

Not me Barry would have been reported with the delivery to the forward 50 tonight!Honestly a combination of Dunstall,Coventry or Lockett wouldn't have got a look in. Having said that however, I feel the club is going to take the chance On Barry

[AndrewP6]

In the last 4-6 weeks, we so often bang the ball into forward 50, it appears we are practising for when we have a tall forward up there! Seriously, there seems no logic to some "attacking" kicks. Perhaps Bazza could be on the end of a few of those? ;)

[G-Mo77]

Not me Barry would have been reported with the delivery to the forward 50 tonight!Honestly a combination of Dunstall,Coventry or Lockett wouldn't have got a look in. Having said that however, I feel the club is going to take the chance On Barry

I think we have more chance of bombing to a bigger target than to smaller ones. Last night we had almost as many inside 50's as the Saints but just couldn't handle the pressure and disposal was ordinary. Bombing it to smaller targets just doesn't work. At least with a geniune big target a better contest would have been made. It probably wouldn't have changed the result but certainly would have helped a little.

[bulldogsman]

I voted no a while ago, but after last nights crap effort I say yes. Minson's 2 dropped marks really set the scene for the rest of the team. Hall could've been worth 3 goals just in that 1st quarter! Really the scoreline should've been the opposite way round in the 1st quarter and it might well have been a different game.

[Rocco Jones]

Pretty simple one for me. Hall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Welsh

[Happy Days]

Another factor in recruiting Hall is that he allows our small forwards to act like small forwards, in the sense that they can be at the big fella's feet, instead of being the ones creating the leads and crashing the packs themselves.

Look at last night. Stephen Milne, the hackiest of all hacks, kicked 5 because he had Riewoldt around to bring the ball to ground, or get hands over the top to him. Aker, Shauny and Johnno could kick 10 with that sort of big man assistance.

[Rocco Jones]

Another factor in recruiting Hall is that he allows our small forwards to act like small forwards, in the sense that they can be at the big fella's feet, instead of being the ones creating the leads and crashing the packs themselves.

Look at last night. Stephen Milne, the hackiest of all hacks, kicked 5 because he had Riewoldt around to bring the ball to ground, or get hands over the top to him. Aker, Shauny and Johnno could kick 10 with that sort of big man assistance.

He also created room for Milne to work in.

A common misconception is that our forward line is "small". It is as small as it is tall, our forward like is full of medium types.

[Happy Days]

He also created room for Milne to work in.

A common misconception is that our forward line is "small". It is as small as it is tall, our forward like is full of mediums.

Johnson - 182cm
Higgins - 184cm
Aker - 177cm

They might play like talls, but it isn't by choice, its by necessity.

Hall would change all this, and maybe give our bombing some purpose.

And you'd have to be kidding yourself if you think the above players couldn't do at least equally as well as Milne does with the same amount of space, crumbs and 'opportunistic goals'.

[Rocco Jones]

Johnson - 182cm
Higgins - 184cm
Aker - 177cm

They might play like talls, but it isn't by choice, its by necessity.

Hall would change all this, and maybe give our bombing some purpose.

And you'd have to be kidding yourself if you think the above players couldn't do at least equally as well as Milne does with the same amount of space, crumbs and 'opportunistic goals'.

I think they are all different players to Milne.

Johnson is a medium forward type.

Higgins is spending more time forward because of his fitness problems but long term he should be spending most of his time in midfield, with spells off HF.

Aker is more of a HF who sets up scoring shots.

I think the only genuine small forward pocket types we have are Harbrow and Lynch.

[Mofra]

Pretty simple one for me. Hall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Welsh
That'd be my swap. Welsh will struggle to play the rest of the year with injury and largely be ineffectual.

Everytime I see Jack Riewoldt (who I really rate) I feel a little ill.

[Scorlibo]

That'd be my swap. Welsh will struggle to play the rest of the year with injury and largely be ineffectual.

Everytime I see Jack Riewoldt (who I really rate) I feel a little ill.

6 goals today just makes your stomach churn doesn't it? He could have been doing that for us had we just taken him instead of Everitt.

[Mofra]

6 goals today just makes your stomach churn doesn't it? He could have been doing that for us had we just taken him instead of Everitt.
The annoying thing is he'd fit into our forward six perfectly right now, can lead & take contested marks. He looks a beauty.

[LostDoggy]

6 goals today just makes your stomach churn doesn't it? He could have been doing that for us had we just taken him instead of Everitt.

Still don't think he would do anything for us, same height as Mitch Hahn & we don't need anymore of these type of players.

[Mantis]

Still don't think he would do anything for us, same height as Mitch Hahn & we don't need anymore of these type of players.

Hahn is 188cm, Riewoldt is 192cm.

[Mofra]

Still don't think he would do anything for us, same height as Mitch Hahn & we don't need anymore of these type of players.
A hard working, leading forward who can also take contested marks? On current form he'd be our no 1 forward.

[Remi Moses]

Don't get all giddy he only played on the inexperienced Essendon backline. He's to small for a power forward roll and people on here giving up already on Everitt is ordinary. Mitch kicked 5 against the same mob. Had a listen to SEN last night Tony Sheehan [son of pink shirted Mike] apparently knows Hall quite well and he's adamant that Barry wants to continue. Just back on Riewoldt not a great kick at goal either.

[Remi Moses]

Hahn is 188cm, Riewoldt is 192cm.

Still to short for the power forward role

[Happy Days]

Still to short for the power forward role

Well don't tell Fev and Pav that.

[Rocco Jones]

Still to short for the power forward role

Why are people so fixated by a player's actual height?
Fev 191cm
Pav 192cm
Lloyd 192cm
N.Riewoldt 193cm
Jarryd Roughead 193cm

and then there's these KP defenders
C.Bolton 190cm
Rutten 192cm
Glass 192cm
Bock 193cm

If you're good enough, "only" being 192cm tall shouldn't stop you from being a KPP.

[bulldogtragic]

Why are people so fixated by a player's actual height?
Fev 191cm
Pav 192cm
Lloyd 192cm
N.Riewoldt 193cm
Jarryd Roughead 193cm

and then there's these KP defenders
C.Bolton 190cm
Rutten 192cm
Glass 192cm
Bock 193cm

If you're good enough, "only" being 192cm tall shouldn't stop you from being a KPP.
Recent doggies talls/KPPs:

CHB - Cam Wight 200cm
Ruck - Peter Street 205cm
CHF - Daniel Bandy 201cm
CHF/FF - Tim Walsh 196cm
R/FF - Wayde Skipper 195cm
CHF/FF - The Ugg 196cm
CHF/FF - Jesse Wells 196cm


All that height we 'needed'... Give me skill any day of the week.

[Rocco Jones]

All that height we 'needed'... Give me skill any day of the week.

Yep. Most punters seem to rate height ahead of the ability to mark overhead.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep. Most punters seem to rate height ahead of the ability to mark overhead.
Looking at the list again, I'd also like to rate our first and second round draft picks a little more highly than that list does (god we did bad). That list is a horror prime example of (over)paying for those with height and lower skills.

[G-Mo77]

Who is "The Ugg" :confused:

[bulldogtragic]

Who is "The Ugg" :confused:
Wash your mouth out and apologise to the great man, Trent Bartlett. :)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Recent doggies talls/KPPs:

CHB - Cam Wight 200cm
Ruck - Peter Street 205cm
CHF - Daniel Bandy 201cm
CHF/FF - Tim Walsh 196cm
R/FF - Wayde Skipper 195cm
CHF/FF - The Ugg 196cm
CHF/FF - Jesse Wells 196cm


All that height we 'needed'... Give me skill any day of the week.

The Ugg Boot wouldn't have been 196cm standing on a stool.

[LostDoggy]

Hahn is 188cm, Riewoldt is 192cm.

My bad, thought he was shorter then that.

Would be handy at 192 :D

[mighty_west]

Don't get all giddy he only played on the inexperienced Essendon backline. He's to small for a power forward roll and people on here giving up already on Everitt is ordinary. Mitch kicked 5 against the same mob. Had a listen to SEN last night Tony Sheehan [son of pink shirted Mike] apparently knows Hall quite well and he's adamant that Barry wants to continue. Just back on Riewoldt not a great kick at goal either.

Neither does his cousin, but he seems to be doing ok. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Bump.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Still a no from me.

Obviously lacking a KPF is a major problem, but for mine, we've got concerns that run far deeper than just that.

Let's start with the players mental strength (or lack there of) and the poor leadership.

[AndrewP6]

Bump.

At the risk of sounding dumb, I had to Google the term 'bump'... found it on Wikipedia...on a page all about Netiquette... so, now I know!

Anyhoo, I'd like to vote for Bazza again. But I can't!

[Throughandthrough]

he would have only have had to kick one goal today and our season would not have been ruined.

[KT31]

Not sure Baaza could have kept his cool today with some of the kicks coming into the forward 50.

[Sleeve1970]

All I can say is "Welcome aboard Barry, Make yourself at home the forward line is all yours"

Bring on the Big Bad Bazza, Dogs better not let him get away this time.....

[Rocco Jones]

Scott Welsh, Wayde Skipper, Nathan Eagleton and Cameron Wight are currently on our list. I think he could replace one of them.

[Mantis]

I spoke to a guy yesterday who is a family friend of the Barry Hall family (he said they are all Dogs fans)

He is firmly of the belief that Barry will be at our club next year.

[Rocco Jones]

I spoke to a guy yesterday who is a family friend of the Barry Hall family (he said they are all Dogs fans)

He is firmly of the belief that Barry will be at our club next year.

I like it!

[comrade]

Barry Hall will be a nice addition, but he won't turn us around by himself.

A change in the mindset of the group needs to occur over summer.

Rocket needs everyone to buy into the defensive pressure-type game style that the Saints have perfected and he needs to get tougher on under performing players and the guys who don't buy into the defensive side of the game. All members of the team should be put on notice, rather than the feeling of contentment that seems to permeate at the moment.

We're not out of the race this year, but after yesterday's effort it's hard for me not to look to next year.

I'm prepared to put up with some losses next year, if we're playing guys who will fit our structure moving forward.

I'm talking about Grant and Jones primarily. They'll struggle to run out games and probably won't have an influence on a lot of games - so what. That's what Barry is for. We need to fast track these kids, rather than putting our faith in guys who continue to let us down.

A change needs to occur - is Rocket strong enough to make it happen?

[Sleeve1970]

Barry Hall will be a nice addition, but he won't turn us around by himself.

A change in the mindset of the group needs to occur over summer.

Rocket needs everyone to buy into the defensive pressure-type game style that the Saints have perfected and he needs to get tougher on under performing players and the guys who don't buy into the defensive side of the game. All members of the team should be put on notice, rather than the feeling of contentment that seems to permeate at the moment.

We're not out of the race this year, but after yesterday's effort it's hard for me not to look to next year.

I'm prepared to put up with some losses next year, if we're playing guys who will fit our structure moving forward.

I'm talking about Grant and Jones primarily. They'll struggle to run out games and probably won't have an influence on a lot of games - so what. That's what Barry is for. We need to fast track these kids, rather than putting our faith in guys who continue to let us down.

A change needs to occur - is Rocket strong enough to make it happen?

Yeah good call, but still having a target up forward who can provide a contest and let the crumbers run will still be nice to have.

[azabob]

I'm prepared to put up with some losses next year, if we're playing guys who will fit our structure moving forward.



So does this mean we dont resign Welsh, Eagelton, and Akermanis?

Personally I dont think we should regardless how good Akermanis has been.

[anfo27]

Barry Hall is not the answer. Whenever we lose that's the first thing the media come out with. Instead of talking about the real issue, How we deliver the ball to our forwards? When we lose our forwards are always out numbered and i don't care what forwrd line you have if your out numbered you are not going to take marks and kick goals. Besides Barry Hall is not a big contested mark player, he gets most of his footy on the lead.

[comrade]

So does this mean we dont resign Welsh, Eagelton, and Akermanis?

Personally I dont think we should regardless how good Akermanis has been.

Welsh and Eagleton are definites for me, with Aker pretty close as well. If Johnno can maintain his speed and work rate I don't have an issue with him going again.

[anfo27]

You guys are kidding aren't you? Aker has to go again, the guy is easily the smartest player in the team no contest. I would go as far as too say in the 20 odd years i have watched my beloved dogs i have never seen a bulldogs player use the ball better. Chris Grant would be the next but Aker's footy brain is second to none. If you watch the guy live he is on another wave length to everyone else. Brad Johnson can run but he's kicking lets him down far too often, i'd still keep him though.

[Bomberdog]

Barry must come. Eagle and welsh to go. Aker to stay. If they need another to go Johno should finish up before him. He has been a great but aker is of more value to the side. I think that we could go on with hall, aker and johno.

[bulldogtragic]

100 responses - biggest poll on WOOF i think.

It's a decent sample, and roughly 2/3's of doggies members/supporters want Barry. That means nothing for the coaches/administrators, but it's a persuasive ground swell of people that want Barry t the club (including a heap of players saying they want him in the side next year, see Hudson, Aker, Bobby et al more generally).

[Remi Moses]

100 responses - biggest poll on WOOF i think.

It's a decent sample, and roughly 2/3's of doggies members/supporters want Barry. That means nothing for the coaches/administrators, but it's a persuasive ground swell of people that want Barry t the club (including a heap of players saying they want him in the side next year, see Hudson, Aker, Bobby et al more generally).

The club shouldn't and wouldn't take any notice of supporters or players when makin the decision.You end up with the farcical situation that's happened at Rabblemond where the president has given the green light for Richo to play on next season!One would have assumed the NEW COACH would be making list decisions:eek:

[bulldogtragic]

Never suggested that supporters have any impact whatsoever.

[LostDoggy]

I want him next year.

[bulldogtragic]

Welcome to the kennel Barry.

[Super 27]

Gotta go balls and all to get him.

[LostDoggy]

Barry Hall is not the answer. Whenever we lose that's the first thing the media come out with. Instead of talking about the real issue, How we deliver the ball to our forwards? When we lose our forwards are always out numbered and i don't care what forwrd line you have if your out numbered you are not going to take marks and kick goals. Besides Barry Hall is not a big contested mark player, he gets most of his footy on the lead.


What is then? All I know even a big dud that could take a mark or bring the ball to ground would have won us the game last night.

[Rocco Jones]

I find it odd that some fans are rejecting the notion because Barry Hall is "not the answer". Is being "the answer" the benchmark we set for one of the last spots on our list?

[bulldogtragic]

I find it odd that some fans are rejecting the notion because Barry Hall is "not the answer". Is being "the answer" the benchmark we set for one of the last spots on our list?
I thought the answer was 'a tall forward'?

Barry is 196cm and has kicked 500 goals. How would you mark that as an answer? I'd go with B+.

[Rocco Jones]

I thought the answer was 'a tall forward'?

Barry is 196cm and has kicked 500 goals. How would you mark that as an answer? I'd go with B+.

Oh, I completely agree. I am just arguing the point that a no risk, quality KP isn't the benchmark for the last spot on your list. I have been behind getting Barry Hall since he whacked Rutten. He comes with baggage but for the minimal price and great need, he is clearly worth it.

[bulldogtragic]

Oh, I complete agree. I am just arguing the point that a no risk, quality KP isn't the benchmark for the last spot on your list. I have been behind getting Barry Hall since he whacked Rutten. He comes with baggage but for the minimal price and great need, he is clearly worth it.
You just perfectly summed up the debate in two sentences!

[LostDoggy]

I didn't want Aker at the club a couple of years ago and he proved me wrong- something I was happy to be wrong about. Therefore I don't see a problem with us getting Hall, if worst comes to worst we don't play him- we have to do something, it's not like Pavlich is for sale.

[Before I Die]

I have been completely against geting Hall and I never thought I would budge on that, but I have. Last night felt like I was stuck in a nightmare version of "Ground Hog Day". I have been around long enough to know that time at the top is fleeting. If Sydney will trade him for a late pick, or we can get him in the PSD, then yes, yes, yes. But don't use an early pick or give up a developing player because that is likely to come back to bite us hard in a few years.

[LostDoggy]

This team can beat any team in the H&A series, but when it comes to finals we need that little extra. Bring on Barry - he would have been the difference last night.

[LostDoggy]

I agree. Going forward we need to take him for a year or 2 with a late pick.

It'd give me more confidence for 2010 than I have right now after watching last night

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Get him, but also develop the likes of Grant and Roughead around him starting next season.

[anfo27]

What is then? All I know even a big dud that could take a mark or bring the ball to ground would have won us the game last night.

I think i have changed my tune. Get whoever we need to get because that was so bloody painful last night. I don't think i can take another loss like that again. I was so speechless & numb after the game & told the wife i don't think i'll ever watch another game of footy. But then you wake up to a new day, new outlook & same numbness.

[KT31]

This team can beat any team in the H&A series, but when it comes to finals we need that little extra. Bring on Barry - he would have been the difference last night.

Except the Saints and Blues.

But I do agree about Bazza.

[KT31]

I would like to see the results of this poll if it had started this morning.
I'm guessing instead of 76% it would be more like 96%.
Welcome to the kennel Big Bad Baz!!

[bulldogtragic]

I would like to see the results of this poll if it had started this morning.
I'm guessing instead of 76% it would be more like 96%.
Welcome to the kennel Big Bad Baz!!
It's simple enough from those willing to say they've changed their minds. At .8% per person, it puts the vote at a minimum at 71%. But it matters what the brains trust think, and i'm certain Eade will get him former FF back with him again.

Murphy, Hudson and just now Aker said they all want Hall in the side. Strong endorsements and show where the thinking of at least some of the kennel is.

[westbulldog]

39, 33, 32, 32 ..... the totals of our leading goalscorers for 2009. Barry Hall has averaged 2.82 goals per game in his last 5 seasons (97 games) with Sydney. He is surely worth pursuing in 2010. He would always attract the opposition's best tall backman and our younger developing talls could be played beside him if their form warranted. The delivery of our smaller forwards would further enhance his chances too. He might just relish the opportunity and prove the doomsayers wrong. Put simply, we will find it difficult to win a premiership without a power forward.

[Desipura]

I wonder how many have changed their mind about getting Hall to the Dogs? When it was first reported a number of people were saying he is passed it, he is a psycho etc etc.
The stats tell me quiet a few of you.

[Dry Rot]

I wonder how many have changed their mind about getting Hall to the Dogs? When it was first reported a number of people were saying he is passed it, he is a psycho etc etc.
The stats tell me quiet a few of you.

I know that no-one here is ignoring the problems with Hall's head, but some comments on another forum are interesting.

Most have the same attitude as in here, but two posters (myself and another) reckon he will spend substantial parts of the season suspended. We're not mates but we have one thing in common - we both live in Sydney and have the absolute pleasure of receiving daily detailed Swans news NB Hall.

Hall's problems go back much further than this season. The upside to getting Hall is probably greater than most of you appreciate but so is the risk.

I have two simple questions:

1. If we get Hall, what will have changed for him next season to be no longer a serious risk of belting someone?

2. What can we do that the Swans couldn't do to fix his head?

I like the idea of getting Hall to help our young talls but fear that he will get rubbed out when we really need him.

[LostDoggy]

Most have the same attitude as in here, but two posters (myself and another) reckon he will spend substantial parts of the season suspended. We're not mates but we have one thing in common - we both live in Sydney and have the absolute pleasure of receiving daily detailed Swans news NB Hall.

Its not like we receive no news in Melbourne on Hall. Its AFL heaven here and even if a West Australian player burps, its heard here.



Hall's problems go back much further than this season. The upside to getting Hall is probably greater than most of you appreciate but so is the risk.

I have two simple questions:

1. If we get Hall, what will have changed for him next season to be no longer a serious risk of belting someone?


Well a new club, new coach, new teammates, last chance and possibly something written in his contract.
I think it can be an advantage as well, I know a number of our players will walk tall knowing the Hall is with then and opposition know what he is capable of (football and aggression wise).


2. What can we do that the Swans couldn't do to fix his head?

Its known that Roos and Hall weren't on terms at the end so its a job Roos couldn't do anymore. We also know that Eade has drafted and coached him in the past. Having An ex-team mate and now coach Paul Williams with us could only help.
There is no guarantee but its worth a risk.

[mighty_west]

I wonder how many have changed their mind about getting Hall to the Dogs? When it was first reported a number of people were saying he is passed it, he is a psycho etc etc.
The stats tell me quiet a few of you.

I changed my mind from last year, but that was only because we would have paid way too much for an ageing player, i am all for him now, mainly because he will come cheap as chips, and am really loking forward to seeing him running around in the tri colours [that's IF we get him off course].

[bulldogtragic]

I changed my mind from last year, but that was only because we would have paid way too much for an ageing player, i am all for him now, mainly because he will come cheap as chips, and am really loking forward to seeing him running around in the tri colours [that's IF we get him off course].
The way Aker spoke it almost a fait accompli.

Add to that Bobby saying "we would all walk taller with Barry in the side", Hudson saying it would be great hiving up forward, Lake saying he's the toughest opponent he has ever played on, a former team mate positive about his return to AFL and his old coach obviously a fan.

I think it's just a matter of dollars and draft picks swapping.

[EasternWest]

I don't really get the fascination with Barry Hall. For mine, we need a big forward that can take a pack mark so that when we must resort to just bombing it in the air (as we so often do) we're at least a chance to do it. Unlike now, when we're no chance. I'm not sure I've ever seen Hall take a big pack mark.
We need a player like Riewoldt (and before you all jump on me I know that's not happening). So we need to look at selecting and developing forwards that can become like that.
Hall is a good lead up forward, but so is Johnson, Aker, Murphy etc etc. Anyone can be a good lead up forward if they have the smarts and the pace. But it takes something different to bust open a pack and rip down a big mark, which is what we so desperately need.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't really get the fascination with Barry Hall. For mine, we need a big forward that can take a pack mark so that when we must resort to just bombing it in the air (as we so often do) we're at least a chance to do it. Unlike now, when we're no chance. I'm not sure I've ever seen Hall take a big pack mark.
We need a player like Riewoldt (and before you all jump on me I know that's not happening). So we need to look at selecting and developing forwards that can become like that.
Hall is a good lead up forward, but so is Johnson, Aker, Murphy etc etc. Anyone can be a good lead up forward if they have the smarts and the pace. But it takes something different to bust open a pack and rip down a big mark, which is what we so desperately need.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

Riewoldt doesn't really take that many pack marks. Riewoldt works amazingly hard and takes lots of marks on the lead (even if they're contested).

Hall also works very hard and while not in Riewoldt's league (let's face it, who is?) Hall will NOT get outmarked. While it's great for a big forward to grab one or two, if he can stop the other mob from taking defensive marks he's worth his spot.

The risk with Hall at his age is if he can't chase his man back. he's usually been good at this over his career but it gets harder as the legs get older.

What gets you in real trouble is when your forward line starts to look like a trampoline.

[Dry Rot]

I don't really get the fascination with Barry Hall. For mine, we need a big forward that can take a pack mark so that when we must resort to just bombing it in the air (as we so often do) we're at least a chance to do it. Unlike now, when we're no chance. I'm not sure I've ever seen Hall take a big pack mark.
We need a player like Riewoldt (and before you all jump on me I know that's not happening). So we need to look at selecting and developing forwards that can become like that.
Hall is a good lead up forward, but so is Johnson, Aker, Murphy etc etc. Anyone can be a good lead up forward if they have the smarts and the pace. But it takes something different to bust open a pack and rip down a big mark, which is what we so desperately need.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

And I'm not sure you've seen Hall play.

[Mantis]

What gets you in real trouble is when your forward line starts to look like a trampoline.

Which ours has the potential to.

Hall (33), Johnson (33), Aker (33), Hahn (28), Murphy (27) & Gia (27)

That's a pretty old & slowish forwardline - We seriously need an injection of pace into this group.

[Desipura]

Which ours has the potential to.

Hall (33), Johnson (33), Aker (33), Hahn (28), Murphy (27) & Gia (27)

That's a pretty old & slowish forwardline - We seriously need an injection of pace into this group.
Bingo! Would they look to trade a Gia, me thinks not. Murphy was noted for being up there with the quickest when we drafted him. When fully fit, he is quick, has had to rely on his smarts in recent times due to his injuries.

[bulldogtragic]

Which ours has the potential to.

Hall (33), Johnson (33), Aker (33), Hahn (28), Murphy (27) & Gia (27)

That's a pretty old & slowish forwardline - We seriously need an injection of pace into this group.
That's why I think Lynch and Stack really need to step it up next year in a big way.

[EasternWest]

You're wrong.

Riewoldt doesn't really take that many pack marks. Riewoldt works amazingly hard and takes lots of marks on the lead (even if they're contested).

Hall also works very hard and while not in Riewoldt's league (let's face it, who is?) Hall will NOT get outmarked. While it's great for a big forward to grab one or two, if he can stop the other mob from taking defensive marks he's worth his spot.

The risk with Hall at his age is if he can't chase his man back. he's usually been good at this over his career but it gets harder as the legs get older.

What gets you in real trouble is when your forward line starts to look like a trampoline.


No worries, I welcome contrasting opinions but we'll have to agree to disagree. I can think of one pack mark Riewoldt has taken recently that was pretty important. Can you?

[EasternWest]

You're wrong.

And I'm not sure you've seen Hall play.

Wow, you're right. I never thought of it that way.

At least Sockeye told me why he thought I was wrong.

I'm not 100 per cent anti Hall, I'm just not convinced he'll be the answer, for reasons already stated.

[Keepa Movin' Griff]

Happy to take Bazza on only for 1 year though.

I reckon we might meet St Kilda in the GF next year and BBB could do a lot less to help the Bulldogs then by landing a signature knock-out blow on Riewoldting before the start of the game! With St Nick nuetralised, Bazza still gets to play, still gets a medal, and would likely be the best publicity stunt he could imagine leading into his budding boxing career. Promoters would go crazy for him!

(I may still be a little bitter about that dive, lol)

[The Coon Dog]

(I may still be a little bitter about that dive, lol)

I wouldn't have guessed! ;)

[1eyedog]

I don't really get the fascination with Barry Hall. For mine, we need a big forward that can take a pack mark so that when we must resort to just bombing it in the air (as we so often do) we're at least a chance to do it. Unlike now, when we're no chance. I'm not sure I've ever seen Hall take a big pack mark.
We need a player like Riewoldt (and before you all jump on me I know that's not happening). So we need to look at selecting and developing forwards that can become like that.
Hall is a good lead up forward, but so is Johnson, Aker, Murphy etc etc. Anyone can be a good lead up forward if they have the smarts and the pace. But it takes something different to bust open a pack and rip down a big mark, which is what we so desperately need.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep I agree, doesn't every club want one of these? Unfortunately they are as common as hens teeth and there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone on our list is going to be capable of doing this. For me, I voted to get Hall and unlike DR I am not perturbed if Hall only plays 16 games. I think he will add a new dynamic and if Bobby thinks the team will walk taller then that's a positive thing. He'll be cheap but he'll also be nasty and as long as he can kick 50 goals and play in every final we play in next year we are a better chance of winning the flag at the start of 2010 than we were at the start of 2009.

[LostDoggy]

Looks fit, hungry & seems to be enjoying football again.

Couldn't ask for anything more from him tonight, outstanding.

[Dry Rot]

Looks fit, hungry & seems to be enjoying football again.

Couldn't ask for anything more from him tonight, outstanding.

The journos and the TV highlights will focus on his strong marking, but his defensive efforts and ground level work and snaps at goal tell me he's looking really good for us in 2010.

If he doesn't explode and deck someone.....

[comrade]

If he was worth $1M to the coffers before tonight, you can probably chuck another mill on top now.

[The Coon Dog]

Interesting reading this thread. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Be interested to know if anyone who voted no would change their mind after tonight's game (it's your chance to do a Mike Sheahan & fall in love with someone after 10 minutes!).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I voted no but I had changed my mind long before this game.

Not much to say that others haven't and won't cover. His efforts were outstanding. Still incredibly strong and agile, team orientated and his defensive game perfect.

[Dry Rot]

Interesting reading this thread. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Be interested to know if anyone who voted no would change their mind after tonight's game (it's your chance to do a Mike Sheahan & fall in love with someone after 10 minutes!).

Ask me at the end of season. I had to live through the Sydney media dramas of late 2005 when Hall punched Maguire in the finals.

If he doesn't lose it, then I repeat what I've posted before - many here don't appreciate how good a player he can be on so many levels.

One thing I can say with confidence and local experience - when he's on song, he's great to watch live. :)

[Sedat]

The journos and the TV highlights will focus on his strong marking, but his defensive efforts and ground level work and snaps at goal tell me he's looking really good for us in 2010..

Amen brother. His defensive work was outstanding tonight, and is the norm for him. Opposition defenders will find it more difficult to trampoline the ball out of defensive 50 with the increased pressure that the likes of Hall bring to the table.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting reading this thread. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Be interested to know if anyone who voted no would change their mind after tonight's game (it's your chance to do a Mike Sheahan & fall in love with someone after 10 minutes!).

It was never a case of doubting his footballing ability.

[angelopetraglia]

He did look in great condition too physically. Can't believe the size of those arms. No wonder he has smashed records in the Gym this pre-season.

Hopefully he can continue to improve on tonight's fantastic first hit out.

Not getting carried away, still recall one Jade Rawlings kicking 7 on debut before a very ordinary contribution. But really you can't compare Big Bad Bustling Barry with Jade.

[boydogs]

Interesting reading this thread. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Be interested to know if anyone who voted no would change their mind after tonight's game (it's your chance to do a Mike Sheahan & fall in love with someone after 10 minutes!).

He is making it hard for me to remember the reasons, I will give you that

[Dry Rot]

Amen brother. His defensive work was outstanding tonight, and is the norm for him. Opposition defenders will find it more difficult to trampoline the ball out of defensive 50 with the increased pressure that the likes of Hall bring to the table.

He's also a scary giant rover too when another forward brings the ball to ground.

Dunno how he will be rated this season against other "power forwards", but whatever that term really means, it's great to see one in red white and blue.

[boydogs]

These were my original reasons for saying No. Below I have added what we have learnt since:

1) He said he can't trust himself, not sure then how we are supposed to
I think he has come out and said now the stressors are behind him

2) He said he can't see himself playing at another club lining up against Sydney
I think he has moved past this

3) He has priors at the tribunal that will guarantee long suspensions for any indiscretions
Still very true

4) He is getting old in AFL terms thus not as athletic as in earlier years
Watching him tonight he still has great agility and acceleration

5) His age means he is more susceptable to injury
Still very true

6) Missing the last 8 games this season he may be injured coming back ala Cousins
Still very true

7) He will probably replace Welsh
Welsh retired anyway

8) He will only be around for a year or two
Signed for 2 years, cost in draft pick and salary acceptable if he gives good service

9) In his limited time he may not be very effective, still adjusting to his environment and game plan ala Aker
Still true, but showed tonight he can still contribute

10) He would take game time away from our developing forwards
Grant and Stack are not ready. Jones maybe, but hasn't even played Willy seniors yet I don't think

11) An alternate player from the pick we use to get him will be lost
3rd rounder in a compromised draft was not too bad

11) He could damage our clean reputation with continued indiscretions
Still possible

12) Opposition players know he can be easily aggrevated and will be able to put him off his game and get him to give away frees & 50s and get suspended
Hodge tried tonight and it didn't work. Still possible.

13) He would take the media attention away from positives at the club
Has been nothing but positive so far

14) We don't need the speculation on getting him to distract us this year
Speculation on getting him is now over of course. You could argue the talk on his game it is helping take the attention away from our other forwards

15) We don't need the speculation on his behaviour to distract us next year
Still in play

16) We don't want to send a message to the group that we need to take such a risk to be successful
Still applies

17) He would receive even more media attention in Melbourne and would be distracted
Still possible

18) Our forward line is currently working well as it is, we should not disrupt this for a single season
The focus has been getting him to fit into our gameplan

19) Eade's focus would be taken away from team success to managing Hall
Still possible

20) He would be doing it to redeem himself and not for a premiership ala Pavlich
Seems to be enjoying himself, not just on a redemption mission

---

In summary, looks a better decision now than back then, but it can all change very quickly

[Dry Rot]

T

In summary, looks a better decision now than back then, but it can all change very quickly

Great summary - many Dogs fans now seem to forget the very real risks you have posted.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

"20) He would be doing it to redeem himself and not for a premiership ala Pavlich
Seems to be enjoying himself, not just on a redemption mission"

Never underestimate the powers of redemption! I believe in you Brother Barry.
I feel that the extreme frustration Hall must have felt comes from not seeing a way out of one's predicament. The fresh start with a new supportive, optimistic even 'our time is now' environment means there's no more predicament.

[Topdog]

Great summary - many Dogs fans now seem to forget the very real risks you have posted.

It's not a case of forgetting for me. I just don't think there is any point worrying about it. Better to have taken this risk going for the flag than to sit tight and hope for a change of fortune IMO.

[Mofra]

It's not a case of forgetting for me. I just don't think there is any point worrying about it. Better to have taken this risk going for the flag than to sit tight and hope for a change of fortune IMO.
Especially given the cost - a late third rounder.

If he's the 2 goal difference in a prelim that puts us over the line then it's the cheapest trade in history.

[mighty_west]

Great summary - many Dogs fans now seem to forget the very real risks you have posted.

There are alot of smart people on this forum, with alot of great views & opinions, i think a comment believing that perhaps we forget about certain issues, is a little narrowminded, we all know he's no Saint [ok, one time he was:p], but it's more a case of hoping he can stay clean on the field.

The biggest risk of the lot would have NOT going after his services, and not trying to make a difference, in a position that we have clearly lacked for years.

[LostDoggy]

I am not afraid to say, that i love Barry Hall :D

[AndrewP6]

He's done everything we could have asked for, at this point.

[Chicago1]

One thing I can say with confidence and local experience - when he's on song, he's great to watch live. :)

And great to listen to the radio commentators when he gets near the ball. They seem to get orgasmic! :D

[Pickenitup]

Just a heads up Barry is on Cover of Inside Sport magazine good insight into the Mighty Bulldogs

[AndrewP6]

Just a heads up Barry is on Cover of Inside Sport magazine good insight into the Mighty Bulldogs

Picked it up tonight...a good read.

On another note, I've just been trawling through a few sites, and discovered that Bazza's career high for goals kicked, and his 600th goal, both came against the Dogs! Let's hope he hits some more milestones IN OUR COLOURS!!! :)

[LostDoggy]

On another note, I've just been trawling through a few sites, and discovered that Bazza's career high for goals kicked, and his 600th goal, both came against the Dogs! Let's hope he hits some more milestones IN OUR COLOURS!!! :)

That's pretty much the main benefit of having picked up Bazz and Welshy in the past few years.. we were definitely their bitches for a bit -- if they were playing for anyone else they would kick bags on us (as they have in the past), so even if they play for us against their old clubs and only kick a goal, it's essentially equal to 6 or 7 goals because they aren't kicking their bags of 5 or 6 against us!

[Rocco Jones]

Looking on track to kick about 80 goals this season.

The Saints game will be a big test of his true worth though.

[Mantis]

Looking on track to kick about 80 goals this season.

The Saints game will be a big test of his true worth though.

The bigger test will be how we use him.

[LostDoggy]

On the panel for the Footy Show tonight.