The Disappointments from Last Night that must be rectified.

[bornadog]

Murphy

His kicking at the moment is woeful, doesn't seem to be able to hit a target, or get a goal. Why did he try and pass the ball to Welsh in the last quarter, when a) Welsh was covered, b) He could have had a shot himself.

Must play in the forward line.

Eagleton

Out of form, needs a spell. Two weeks in a row, can't get near the ball.

Welsh,

Ditto, last few weeks, including Port Game (93 point thrashing, he hardly touched it), Hawks game (88 point thrashing hardly touched it), North game, in the forward line hardly touched it, but got some kicks in the backline), Colingwood game, (4 touches)

Clearance Work

Brilliant, but didn't make the best of our opportunities. How can we have 47 hit outs to 14, 62 inside 50's to 47 and lose by a point?

Any one else have disappointments and feel things need to improve, so we are challenging for a flag?

[The Pie Man]

Murphy's an interesting one since his return from injury - he's been great down back, but he's going to be great at either end given the enviable versatility of the man. Another like Johnson that I prefer to have even with turnovers/misses when at least they can find it, and if Murph can stay injury free for the rest of the year his disposal shold e vastly improved (which also hurt us in the 08 prelim)

But where does he play for the rest of the year/finals? It's worth discussion

Was rapt Eagleton went backed under the flight of the ball last night, it drew one of my very few verbal responses during the game. I forgot about him after that, I was that happy to see him do that. I suspect he has enough credits to earn a few more cracks

Bit harsh on Welsh - Darwin and last night weren't great, completely agree, but North & Hawthorn games he was ok. You could argue if he had a better game last night we would be talking about a great win. Short of Grant demanding promotion with another (or another 2-3) impressive games at Willy, he won't get dropped.

That clearance result is a massive positive, and if we can maintain that, that's what will help us most in challenging deep in September.

[Happy Days]

Welsh played as a loose man in defense in the North game (if you can't get kicks there, you can't get them anywhere), and had a good first quarter, and only a good first quarter, against the Hawks. Time for a spell.

[Mantis]

Was rapt Eagleton went backed under the flight of the ball last night, it drew one of my very few verbal responses during the game. I forgot about him after that, I was that happy to see him do that. I suspect he has enough credits to earn a few more cracks



Why do you/we make a big deal of such an act when it is expected that all of our players do such a thing? Cross & Morris would do it 10 times a game and it hardly gets a murmur of appreciation.

[The Pie Man]

Why do you/we make a big deal of such an act when it is expected that all of our players do such a thing? Cross & Morris would do it 10 times a game and it hardly gets a murmur of appreciation.

Yeah completely valid point - more as it was so out of character/perception of him that I felt the need to 'reward' him with my 'that was great Benji, couldn't say that 5 years ago' burst, in the hope that he keeps doing it.

And it's become common place for Morris & Cross to commit themselves as such - and bar Cross not making the distance from 50 which I half expected at the time, I think we all love both those guys.

But I what I take away from this is I/we need to show even more love for Morris & Cross (and Boyd, as hard as Kirk and with better skills)

[Twodogs]

Why do you/we make a big deal of such an act when it is expected that all of our players do such a thing? Cross & Morris would do it 10 times a game and it hardly gets a murmur of appreciation.



Because we've been screaming for him to do it for years and finally he is. If the whole team does it we'll win most games we play, that's what we want and currently Nathan is doing it.

A younger player sees Cross, Boyd or Morris go back with the flight and he thinks "Yep, they do that every time", but when he sees Eagle do it he thinks to himself "Shit, Nathan's doing that, I'd better do it too" It's not fair, but it's how a player's mind operates.

[Mofra]

I would have had Eagleton, Welsh & Hill as our three worst last night (Williams not far behind them, but did compete well in the air when he actually watched it and gets some credit as working his way into form).

Eagleton may have been groggy from the crunch, buts that's two poor performances in a row. He wont be dropped but his could be under pressure in the coming weeks.

Welsh was well covered, but much of that was the Pies' upfield pressure not allowing us clean entry into the F50. Hill gets caught out of position too often so combining that with pressured F50 entries, he was never going to be a factor.

Christ we missed Gia's disposal efficiency into the F50.

[Scorlibo]

Murph needs to stay in the forwardline, last night the forwardline struggled immensely to create space, every time it went in there there was a Collingwood bloke dropping across from his direct opponent to make the spoil or mark.

I think that's a bit harsh on Welsh, he was close to BOG against North and kicked his few last week. It was definitely a disappointing night for him but he was on a full-back who doesn't have the slightest care for anything other than negating his opponent in Prestigiacomo.

One thing that must be rectified is the way all of our players fly for the mark, on countless occasions last night all of the players around the ball would fly for the ball, and no one would stay down. Sometimes they even spoiled each other.

I'd like to see Cooney run with the ball more, and gee Griffen's kicking was terrible.

[bornadog]

One thing that must be rectified is the way all of our players fly for the mark, on countless occasions last night all of the players around the ball would fly for the ball, and no one would stay down. Sometimes they even spoiled each other.

I'd like to see Cooney run with the ball more, and gee Griffen's kicking was terrible.

Yes we have seen the running bouncing of Cooney or even Griffen for awhile. Cooney seems to be getting all his posessions as an inside player.

[Rocco Jones]

I think that's a bit harsh on Welsh, he was close to BOG against North and kicked his few last week. It was definitely a disappointing night for him but he was on a full-back who doesn't have the slightest care for anything other than negating his opponent in Prestigiacomo.


Spot on there. Being quiet against a defender who virtually does nothing other than negate is a lot different to doing it against one who also creates a lot of rebound. A key example was last night, Anthony was a lot more damaging to his side than Welsh.

I must say I am not a huge fan of Welsh but he deserves his spot in the side for the time being at least.

[BulldogBelle]

Yes we have seen the running bouncing of Cooney or even Griffen for awhile. Cooney seems to be getting all his posessions as an inside player.


Which would say that Cooney isnt working as hard as he did last year

The guy didnt have a pre-season, so is still running into full fitness

Its a good sign that he is working hard in close to get contested posessions

[AndrewP6]

P***** me off that we won so many clearances, and looked dangerous bringing it out, only to bomb it long to no one... or to 1 on 2 or 3 contests... We need Murphy forward... we need to work harder to block/shepherd teammates. On the replay, Murph's block was a massive factor in Griffen's late goal. I think our tackling needs work - the intensity is better than previous seasons, just don't think we're sticking them enough, or convincingly enough. Could be a long month without Gia, but there's talent there. Need people to step up (Coons, Griff, Murph, et al)

Oh, and they need to fix the coffee machines on Level 3...although last night was much improved....

[Stefcep]

I'd like to see Cooney run with the ball more, and gee Griffen's kicking was terrible.

Cooney's running yes, we need more of that, Griffen's running , no way. The difference is that Cooney knows when to run and when to give it off, he has that explosive pace in the first 10-15 meters and he can foot pass on the run with precision. Grifffen tries to break every tackle no matter what, he doesn't have that burst like Cooney, and his kicking is erratic: sometimes he kicks 50 up and 50 down, sometimes its a mongrel punt, sometimes its a low kick at goal. Murphs shepperding was the reason Griffen had enough time to get on his right to kick the goal at the end, there was no Griffen had the confidence to snap on the left.

[AndrewP6]

Murphs shepperding was the reason Griffen had enough time to get on his right to kick the goal at the end, there was no Griffen had the confidence to snap on the left.

I actually thought it was a smart play...moved closer to the middle, a better angle... he had the time, and a good shepherd...why not use it? it's not like he got run down (like he did earlier in the game!)

[boydogs]

Murphy

His kicking at the moment is woeful, doesn't seem to be able to hit a target, or get a goal. Why did he try and pass the ball to Welsh in the last quarter, when a) Welsh was covered, b) He could have had a shot himself.

Must play in the forward line.

Tough for Murph being injured multiple times this year having to come back in defense and try to adjust to that role then go forward again and adjust to that. He is playing very well aside from this and should only improve from here


Eagleton

Out of form, needs a spell. Two weeks in a row, can't get near the ball.

I'm not sure that a spell will help him, he needs to work on his skills in traffic and finding space in big games. I would potentially drop him from lack of contribution but not to help him find form.

Its coming to the time of year where getting players ready and settling the side for the finals becomes a factor at the selection table, as evidenced by the inclusion of Tom Williams. If we are going to play him in finals leave him in for the rest of the year as there will be plenty of big games to prepare him. If not, the time is now to bring in Stack, Reid, Callan, Addison, Tiller or Everitt and give them an extended run


Welsh

Ditto, last few weeks, including Port Game (93 point thrashing, he hardly touched it), Hawks game (88 point thrashing hardly touched it), North game, in the forward line hardly touched it, but got some kicks in the backline), Colingwood game, (4 touches)

Should have put him in defense last night, was dominated by Presti. Thought he was good last two weeks.


Clearance Work

Brilliant, but didn't make the best of our opportunities. How can we have 47 hit outs to 14, 62 inside 50's to 47 and lose by a point?

Lack of defensive pressure and poor delivery of the ball by our midfield


Any one else have disappointments and feel things need to improve, so we are challenging for a flag?

We need some igniters, game breakers, match winners to turn the game in our favour when we are behind before it gets to 6 goals. Players like Cooney, Griffen, Gilbee and Aker need to step up and lay a tackle, go for a run, or kick a long goal to get us going before its too late

We need to stop playing players out of position - Hill, Everitt, Murphy - and improve our setups, matchups and workrate around the midfield and clearances to stop opponents getting into space and allow us to instead

[Stefcep]

I actually thought it was a smart play...moved closer to the middle, a better angle... he had the time, and a good shepherd...why not use it? it's not like he got run down (like he did earlier in the game!)

Yep was smart play to make certain of the goal, but only possible because Murph held a player off to give Griffen the time to get around on his right boot, otherwise Griffen would have been run down.

[AndrewP6]

Yep was smart play to make certain of the goal, but only possible because Murph held a player off to give Griffen the time to get around on his right boot, otherwise Griffen would have been run down.

Exactly why I said we need to get better at blocking and shepherding...it creates opportunity..I saw it as a positive of Murphy's, not a negative of Griff.

[Stefcep]

Exactly why I said we need to get better at blocking and shepherding...it creates opportunity..I saw it as a positive of Murphy's, not a negative of Griff.
Oh Ok , misunderstood what you meant. And i agree as a team we don't sheppard enough, we don't block the path of opposition players that are chasing a team mate enough. S'ppose thats what they call the one percentres

[The Coon Dog]

The freedom the Collingwood defence had at times made me realise just how much we missed Gia last night.

[LostDoggy]

The freedom the Collingwood defence had at times made me realise just how much we missed Gia last night.

A lot of the goals we missed last night, he would've put away.

[AndrewP6]

Oh, i forgot...never thought I'd say it, we have to improve our goal kicking accuracy...put the bloody ball between the two big sticks!

[immortalmike]

Was I the only person angry with Aker early in the game(1st two quaters). He turned it over at least 4ish times when he was under little pressure and streaming towards our forward line. He played brilliantly otherwise by at least getting in those positions but it was annoying to see our 2nd or 3rd best decision maker (apart from Gilbee and Higgins) bomb long to Collingwood defenders or kick out of bounds, when normally he would have had 3 or 4 Goal assists.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Should have put him in defense last night, was dominated by Presti. Thought he was good last two weeks.


I thought Welsh could have been used as that leadup player as well. Get Presti up the ground where he has to be a footballer.

[Go_Dogs]

A lot of the goals we missed last night, he would've put away.

Not just that, we might have had some decent balls coming into our F50.

For all the love Akermanis has received for his performance in the votes, some of his ball use was terrible going into the F50 - and he's meant to be one of our better distributors.



Cooney's running yes, we need more of that, Griffen's running , no way. The difference is that Cooney knows when to run and when to give it off, he has that explosive pace in the first 10-15 meters and he can foot pass on the run with precision. Grifffen tries to break every tackle no matter what, he doesn't have that burst like Cooney, and his kicking is erratic: sometimes he kicks 50 up and 50 down, sometimes its a mongrel punt, sometimes its a low kick at goal. Murphs shepperding was the reason Griffen had enough time to get on his right to kick the goal at the end, there was no Griffen had the confidence to snap on the left.


Stefcep, you have had an axe to grind with Griff for a while now. I actually thought his awareness in that situation was very good. He was about to go with the left, realised he had more time than that (good perceptive awareness of what was going on around him), poised and steadied and kicked the goal.

Griff was drafted as someone who was very good on both sides of his body as a kid. Not sure he's gone backwards and can't say that it's something I've noticed, although a few have made similar comments on the boards since Friday's game.

He does tend to kick long balls at times, but I get the impression he's under instruction to take the game on at every opportunity and try to kick over the zones. He has become a bit predictable though, and needs to choose his moments more carefully - much like Murph had done last year when he would turn and play on after every lead up mark.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Welsh could have been used as that leadup player as well. Get Presti up the ground where he has to be a footballer.

Welsh looked like he copped a heavy knock, anyone know how?

[Bulldog Joe]

While Eagleton was below par, what was really missing was his run. I wonder if he is struggling with successive 6 day breaks. For someone who generally runs as hard as he does recovery time is important. His skills were also down and that reduced recovery time could be the problem.

[1eyedog]

Really harsh on Welsh, sounds like a bit of a scapegoat. Was good against the Hawks and some Sun journos had him as BOG against the Roos.

[LostDoggy]

Really harsh on Welsh, sounds like a bit of a scapegoat. Was good against the Hawks and some Sun journos had him as BOG against the Roos.


Agreed Hill and Eagleton were just as bad and havent been as good recently.

Disappointed more with the Cooneys and Griffens.

[LostDoggy]

P***** me off that we won so many clearances, and looked dangerous bringing it out, only to bomb it long to no one... or to 1 on 2 or 3 contests... We need Murphy forward... we need to work harder to block/shepherd teammates. On the replay, Murph's block was a massive factor in Griffen's late goal. I think our tackling needs work - the intensity is better than previous seasons, just don't think we're sticking them enough, or convincingly enough. Could be a long month without Gia, but there's talent there. Need people to step up (Coons, Griff, Murph, et al)


Yeah, you hit the nail on the head AP6, I get very frustrated when our tackles don't stick, and the opposition get away with the ball anyway :mad: I also agree, we need to sheperd teammates more, & protect the player with the ball. It seems to have gone out of our game (can't say I look at other teams much). I think Cooney is running into better form, when you remember he hasn't had a proper pre-season, and my boy Griff, well, it did hearten me to see Friday night when he made a mistake, he busted a gut and did a fantastic smother. You don't mind a mistake when you can see extra effort into making another play go our way. Thanks for reminding me about Gia - I reckon he would have straightened us up in front of goals for sure :)

[LostDoggy]

Really harsh on Welsh, sounds like a bit of a scapegoat. Was good against the Hawks and some Sun journos had him as BOG against the Roos.

I agree.

The improvement Welsh has made to the team, as well as his performances, have been great. One bad game doesn't mean you should be automatically dropped, he will probably bounce back this week.

[AndrewP6]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head AP6, I get very frustrated when our tackles don't stick, and the opposition get away with the ball anyway :mad: I also agree, we need to sheperd teammates more, & protect the player with the ball. It seems to have gone out of our game (can't say I look at other teams much). I think Cooney is running into better form, when you remember he hasn't had a proper pre-season, and my boy Griff, well, it did hearten me to see Friday night when he made a mistake, he busted a gut and did a fantastic smother. You don't mind a mistake when you can see extra effort into making another play go our way. Thanks for reminding me about Gia - I reckon he would have straightened us up in front of goals for sure :)

Agreed on Cooney and Griffen... Cooney is getting back to his best... Griff coming along OK, making some good contributions... can I pick on him and say he is trying too hard at times?:)

[1eyedog]

Agreed Hill and Eagleton were just as bad and havent been as good recently.

Disappointed more with the Cooneys and Griffens.

Absolutely! Eagleton didn't get near it and Hill's defensive pressure was very ordinary. In a couple of contests it looked like Hill didn't even want the ball but he's young and he will begin to emulate the Hahn's and Akermanis' eventually. As stated I thought Welsh was good against the Roos down back, he was very direct and made good decisions when required, why Murphy continues to start down back is beyond me. I understand the rationale for a game or two but it cannot be justified any longer surely. Rocket swung him forward in a desperate move later in the game. If you are happy to play him forward anyway just start him there and Welsh down back.

Cooney was ok IM humble O but Griffen really struggles to get away from his opponent(s). I have noticed multiple opposition players boxing him in as they do to Ablett. Players seem to be right onto players who can break lines and Griff is struggling with it.

[1eyedog]

I agree.

The improvement Welsh has made to the team, as well as his performances, have been great. One bad game doesn't mean you should be automatically dropped, he will probably bounce back this week.

Presti is tough opposition and hugely underrated. I thought he presented well but agree that he needed to push harder up the ground as others here have stated.

[boydogs]

I thought Welsh could have been used as that leadup player as well. Get Presti up the ground where he has to be a footballer.

Good point, a move that would not just be about getting Welsh into the game but also exposing weakness in the opposition

[Stefcep]

Stefcep, you have had an axe to grind with Griff for a while now. I actually thought his awareness in that situation was very good. He was about to go with the left, realised he had more time than that (good perceptive awareness of what was going on around him), poised and steadied and kicked the goal.



Yep he's over-rated. Next time he plays, take a note of the number of turn overs that come from him. You'll be surprised. His decision making is erratic, his foot passing is erratic, and consequently he turns over the ball far too often. He tries to take on players when easier options are there, he goes for 50 metre runs only to finish with an ill-directed pass, or a moon ball. Maybe he's coached to take on players and run, I don't know. I do know that Acker would have snapped that goal with the left without thinking twice.

[LostDoggy]

It is fair to say that Griff, doesn't like using the left.