Consecutive Games at Etihad Stadium

[The Coon Dog]

Last week we were able to manage Shaun Higgins & take him off for the last quarter against Hawthorn which enabled him to recover from sore groins in time to play Collingwood. Had he not recovered sufficiently he would not have played last night.

In his post match presser Rocket made mention of playing consecutive games at Etihad Stadium & its effects on the joints. He said that the ground was a bit 'softer' this week in comparison to last week.

Apart from round 20 when we play at the Gabba, all our remaining games are at Etihad Stadium.

When this season's draw was first conceived by the AFL I know that the club did try to have 1 or 2 games shifted because of concerns about playing so many consecutive games at the ground.

Players I think that may be susceptible are Shaun Higgins (groin), Adam Cooney (knee), Robert Murphy (knee) & Tom Williams (ankle). There are probably others with niggles of some type & of course Johnno, Welsh & Aker who are getting on a bit.

It will be interesting to see what approach we take on this issue & it is something that could impact later in the season.

[The Pie Man]

When every team's draw is evaluated in the press, the fact that we close out our season predominantly at Docklands is seen as a positive, but with the potential impact on sore bodies/injuries and the fact we play top 8 teams there (bar WA teams) it gives you a different perspective

[LostDoggy]

Coon Dog are we looking for excuses for the side after a narrow loss?
It never seems to be an issue when we win but the hard ground and the 6 day breaks get a fair old mention whenever we drop a game.
As far as I could tell we got out coached and out played for the better part of 3 quarters and yet nearly stole the game. A better performance from a few of our players and we would have won the game.
We have a number of games at Etihad so I would expect that our fitness and coaching guys should be able to work around any ground issues we need to deal with.
We hardly pushed ourselves against Hawthorn last week and put the cue in the rack for the last quarter and then last night we finished strongly so I don't think the ground is the problem.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Coon Dog are we looking for excuses for the side after a narrow loss?
It never seems to be an issue when we win but the hard ground and the 6 day breaks get a fair old mention whenever we drop a game.
As far as I could tell we got out coached and out played for the better part of 3 quarters and yet nearly stole the game. A better performance from a few of our players and we would have won the game.
We have a number of games at Etihad so I would expect that our fitness and coaching guys should be able to work around any ground issues we need to deal with.
We hardly pushed ourselves against Hawthorn last week and put the cue in the rack for the last quarter and then last night we finished strongly so I don't think the ground is the problem.

He never mentioned last nights game.

How can it be an excuse for something that hasn't happened?

All he was doing is mentioning something that might be an issue we might have to deal with.

Certainly Higgins was carrying bis groin last night and I would expect he will be rested at some point before the finals.

[LostDoggy]

We face West Coast & Fremantle at the dome back to back..I think this should be when we rest a few of players you mentioned TCD..

[The Coon Dog]

He never mentioned last nights game.

How can it be an excuse for something that hasn't happened?

All he was doing is mentioning something that might be an issue we might have to deal with.

Certainly Higgins was carrying bis groin last night and I would expect he will be rested at some point before the finals.

Spot on Sockeye. Last night's or last week's results were irrelevant, it's more looking forward & the potential for minor niggles to become exacerbated more than normal.

Also trying to highlight the importance of managing injuries on an unforgiving surface.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah, good point TCD.

The most annoying part of last night's loss is how close Collingwood are to us. Would have loved a bit of top breathing space so we could give a rest to guys who need in later in the season.

[BulldogBelle]

Better playing at Telstra Dome that having to fly across the country every second week leading into the finals

[Scorlibo]

The only way playing on a certain ground will have an effect on the players is if they think that it will and get the whole placebo effect happening.

[The Coon Dog]

The only way playing on a certain ground will have an effect on the players is if they think that it will and get the whole placebo effect happening.

So, you're saying its all in the mind? Medical opinions may dictate otherwise.

As I said in the OP, Higgo was touch & go to play last night.

[LostDoggy]

I think that the team had really set themselves for a tough game last week, and I also think it is hard to get that mental intensity right every week. We didn't look switched on at all last night, possibly because of our great record against the Pies of late caught them off guard. We will need to rest some players when we play West Coast and Fremantle.

[The Coon Dog]

I think that the team had really set themselves for a tough game last week, and I also think it is hard to get that mental intensity right every week. We didn't look switched on at all last night, possibly because of our great record against the Pies of late caught them off guard. We will need to rest some players when we play West Coast and Fremantle.
Can I just reiterate, this thread has nothing to do with winning or losing, just player welfare/management.

[Scorlibo]

So, you're saying its all in the mind? Medical opinions may dictate otherwise.

As I said in the OP, Higgo was touch & go to play last night.

Yes that's right, after all the training and extra stress these guys go through do you really think the slight hardness of the ground has anything to do with anybody being 'touch and go' to play? As Chopper Reid would say . . .

[The Coon Dog]

Yes that's right, after all the training and extra stress these guys go through do you really think the slight hardness of the ground has anything to do with anybody being 'touch and go' to play? As Chopper Reid would say . . .

Yes, why do you think I started the thread in the first place?

Have you listened to players who have played at the ground talk about it? Did you hear Rocket discuss it again last night?

Ask Mantis what Rocket said about Shaun Higgins in a discussion with him last week.

[mighty_west]

Yes that's right, after all the training and extra stress these guys go through do you really think the slight hardness of the ground has anything to do with anybody being 'touch and go' to play? As Chopper Reid would say . . .

I reckon there is definatly something in the debate on the hardness of Edihad, and i don't think it has alot about player management as well, having played years ago on a very dry & hard surface compared to other softer suburban grounds, you definatly notice a difference, and stress fractures can be a worry, i know personally many moons ago, and you do generally feel sorer playing on the hard ground compared with the normal softer grounds.

[mighty_west]

The other issue is that i'd rather us play at least an extra 1 or 2 games at the G, thats where the big finals games are played, and the more games played there especially for the younger players, the better experience they can get.

[LostDoggy]

The other issue is that i'd rather us play at least an extra 1 or 2 games at the G, thats where the big finals games are played, and the more games played there especially for the younger players, the better experience they can get.

I totally agree.

And i still believe we will get found out come finals, when we play at the G. You can't go around the wing & expect to win finals, especially with no big man up in the 50.

North Melbourne did it to us, and Collingwood did last night. Teams push us wide & make us use the wings, which gives us no options & forces us to bomb the ball in long. And when we do bomb it long, we are expecting Hahn, Johno etc.. to take a pack mark.

We need to play more games at the MCG, so we can work out a game plan to suit our side.

[mighty_west]

I totally agree.

And i still believe we will get found out come finals, when we play at the G. You can't go around the wing & expect to win finals, especially with no big man up in the 50.

North Melbourne did it to us, and Collingwood did last night. Teams push us wide & make us use the wings, which gives us no options & forces us to bomb the ball in long. And when we do bomb it long, we are expecting Hahn, Johno etc.. to take a pack mark.

We need to play more games at the MCG, so we can work out a game plan to suit our side.

Geez i'd hate to take on Collingwood at the G in a night finals game, they seem to play that ground at night better than any other side.

[Ozza]

Mates of mine that have played at the Docklands have all been of the opinion that it takes longer to recover from games there. The players get sore in the joints, groins and adductor areas.

As TCD said - its not about making excuses - its the reality of playing at Etihad - guys pull up sorer and will probably have more recuperation in their programs to manage it - and cut back on ball/track work.

Will be interesting to see if there is some regular turnover of a few players to keep guys fresh. You would think Higgins would have to miss one or two at some stage, Coons may be in line to miss one at some stage also.

[BulldogBelle]

Mates of mine that have played at the Docklands have all been of the opinion that it takes longer to recover from games there. The players get sore in the joints, groins and adductor areas.

As TCD said - its not about making excuses - its the reality of playing at Etihad - guys pull up sorer and will probably have more recuperation in their programs to manage it - and cut back on ball/track work.

Will be interesting to see if there is some regular turnover of a few players to keep guys fresh. You would think Higgins would have to miss one or two at some stage, Coons may be in line to miss one at some stage also.



Tim Watson was banging on this morning on SEN that Cooney is having to be nursed through games, and having his knee heavily iced after matches, that Higgins groin isnt right, and Gilbees ankles isnt either

I'm hoping these injury's can be managed well, and that these three guys can come into finals football full fit

Cooney especially...

[BulldogBelle]

I totally agree.

And i still believe we will get found out come finals, when we play at the G. You can't go around the wing & expect to win finals, especially with no big man up in the 50.

North Melbourne did it to us, and Collingwood did last night. Teams push us wide & make us use the wings, which gives us no options & forces us to bomb the ball in long. And when we do bomb it long, we are expecting Hahn, Johno etc.. to take a pack mark.

We need to play more games at the MCG, so we can work out a game plan to suit our side.


I didnt think our players worked as hard as the Collingwood guys on Friday night

Ie running from end to end, and running into space when we had the ball

The Pies ran back in droves to chock up our 50m, later forcing us to kick to a contest when there were 30+ players in our forward 50m. Gotta respect Hahn, Johnno and Higgins, but those guys arent going to take a pack mark every time like Riewolt and Franklin can...

We didnt run hard enough, and look for options with quick movement of the ball via foot...Collingwood did this well

It was a care of Pagan's paddock a few times on Friday night, no one in our forward 50m to kick to...

Its when we need speedy forwards....those that can come out on a fast lead or sprint forward onto loose balls when there is no one in the forward 50....a Harbrow or Aker would be perfect

[Bulldog Joe]

Too much negativity in this thread.
While the surface is acknowledged as being harder there is no evidence tha teams that play there struggle in following matches.
There is much more evidence suggesting being caught in cold, wet , heavy conditions are a negative for the following game, although this rarely occurs now as the grounds are better prepared and do not develop the heaviness of 20 or 30 years ago.

There is also good evidence that having a shorter recovery period is a real negative and this is exacerbated with a travel factor. I believe this was a contributor to our early season slump and also a factor in our poor skill execution in the early stages against Collingwood (their 7 day break to our 6)

We better be up and going this week against Essendon as we are advantaged on the recovery period for one of the few times all year. We also get an advantage against St Kilda, who will have 7 days to our 9. Most sides seem to be OK if the rest is at least 7 days.

Hmmm ............St Kilda Perth game after the tough Geelong effort and then a red hot Adelaide while they cope with the travel - They are vulnerable for the next 2 weeks.

[Mofra]

I didnt think our players worked as hard as the Collingwood guys on Friday night
The workrate off the ball is as important as workrate when your team has the ball these days. Collingwood certainly worked harder in blocking space, especially in our forwardline.
Hawthron did this very well in the QF last year and it murdered us.

[Sedat]

Too much negativity in this thread.
While the surface is acknowledged as being harder there is no evidence tha teams that play there struggle in following matches.
It's a legitimate issue worthy of discussion IMO. Daniel Southern's career ended stone-dead at 24yo after playing 5 matches in a row at the Dome back in 2000. Man-management will be very important between now and September.

[Desipura]

It's a legitimate issue worthy of discussion IMO. Daniel Southern's career ended stone-dead at 24yo after playing 5 matches in a row at the Dome back in 2000. Man-management will be very important between now and September.
I was not aware it was due to the Dome's surface. Anyone else know this? I thought it was due to him having constant issues with his knee. He had a knee injury at 15yo and then a few more.

[Sedat]

I was not aware it was due to the Dome's surface. Anyone else know this? I thought it was due to him having constant issues with his knee. He had a knee injury at 15yo and then a few more.
He had issues with his knees but they were exacerbated by 5 games in a row on the rock hard surface of the Dome in early 2000 - being the first year of operation, nobody was fully aware that the stress levels on the body would be so severe at the Dome.

He had something like 15 operations all up on his body in his AFL career - knee recos, shoulders, hand, you name it, he had it.

[LostDoggy]

The workrate off the ball is as important as workrate when your team has the ball these days. Collingwood certainly worked harder in blocking space, especially in our forwardline.
Hawthron did this very well in the QF last year and it murdered us.

Exactly the reason we need a key forward.

[comrade]

Exactly the reason we need a key forward.

Consistent work rate across the ground is more crucial than a key forward.

[Happy Days]

He had issues with his knees but they were exacerbated by 5 games in a row on the rock hard surface of the Dome in early 2000 - being the first year of operation, nobody was fully aware that the stress levels on the body would be so severe at the Dome.

He had something like 15 operations all up on his body in his AFL career - knee recos, shoulders, hand, you name it, he had it.

He did well to put 5 games together in all honesty :)

[LostDoggy]

Consistent work rate across the ground is more crucial than a key forward.

You will not get that in finals.

[Happy Days]

You will not get that in finals.

...why not?

[LostDoggy]

...why not?

Not all 22 players are going to perform on the day, and work rate under finals pressure will be limited. You only have to look at St Kilda v Geelong the other week, and how the pressure of that game limited the influence a lot of players had.

I just think it is important to have a key forward, especially when you have the game plan we do. Teams always shut down the middle corridor, and we have to go wide, which causes us to bomb the ball.

Our game plan is to predictable, teams now know we don't have a tall option. And they play to that, because they know if we bomb the ball it will automatically get rebounded. A tall forward under finals pressure will bring the ball to ground, where the likes of Higgins, Aker, Johnson, Welsh, Hill & Hahn would relish. These guys instead of being the ones trying to take a pack mark, would be crumbing from the pack mark.

Very rarely would we get a lace out leading option in finals...

[LostDoggy]

Like Pie Man said. Give the players who are little sore a rest when we play Freo and WCE. A good chance to bring in some young guys in, just in case we do need them come September.

[boydogs]

I am very worried about our stars playing sore in Cooney, Gilbee and Higgins, but overall I'm not sure playing at Etihad is a bad thing, St Kilda play there the most and they have not lost a game

[The Coon Dog]

St Kilda play there the most and they have not lost a game
Do they play there as consecutively as we do though?

[boydogs]

Do they play there as consecutively as we do though?

WB play(ed) there in rounds 3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22. Total of 13 games, 6 in a row rounds 14-19 and another 2 in rounds 21-22 following a week in Brisbane

St Kilda play(ed) there in rounds 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 20, 21. Total of 15 games, 4 in a row twice in rounds 6-9 and 11-14 seperated by a Gold Coast game, then in round 15 a trip to Perth and another two at Docklands in rounds 16 and 17.

St Kilda just came through 8 games out of 9 there culminating in the win over Geelong. I'm not saying there is nothing in what you are suggesting, but I don't think St Kilda have had too many injuries and have not dropped a game so perhaps we can learn something from them?

[The Coon Dog]

The ground has been regularly watered this season, but due to the under 18's playing there midweek recently it wasn't watered.

The players certainly noticed the difference when playing Hawthorn.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we opted to rest one or two players later in the season.

[Happy Days]

Not all 22 players are going to perform on the day, and work rate under finals pressure will be limited. You only have to look at St Kilda v Geelong the other week, and how the pressure of that game limited the influence a lot of players had.

I just think it is important to have a key forward, especially when you have the game plan we do. Teams always shut down the middle corridor, and we have to go wide, which causes us to bomb the ball.

Our game plan is to predictable, teams now know we don't have a tall option. And they play to that, because they know if we bomb the ball it will automatically get rebounded. A tall forward under finals pressure will bring the ball to ground, where the likes of Higgins, Aker, Johnson, Welsh, Hill & Hahn would relish. These guys instead of being the ones trying to take a pack mark, would be crumbing from the pack mark.

Very rarely would we get a lace out leading option in finals...

Sorry but I just disagree with this.

Our form in the Sydney game, and to a certain extent, the Geelong game, showed that this is absolute bollocks. We're the highest scoring team in the competition as it stands right now, and to say we can't deal with pressure is a rather harsh slight on our players.

[boydogs]

Players I think that may be susceptible are Shaun Higgins (groin), Adam Cooney (knee), Robert Murphy (knee) & Tom Williams (ankle). There are probably others with niggles of some type & of course Johnno, Welsh & Aker who are getting on a bit.

Scarily prophetic TCD. Add Gia and Cross, we seem to have had a run of injuries unlike at any other stage through the year following our run of Etihad games

[Sedat]

We have now lost 6 of our 7 games for the season at Collo's crap-hole. If we lose the last 2 games, we'll end up with a 5-8 record on our supposed home ground. Still hate the place after 10 years of operation.

[The Coon Dog]

We have now lost 6 of our 7 games for the season at Collo's crap-hole. If we lose the last 2 games, we'll end up with a 5-8 record on our supposed home ground. Still hate the place after 10 years of operation.

I have different win/loss figures there Sedat:

WIN: Ess, Freo, Haw, Rich (4)
LOSS: Carl, Coll, Geel, StK x 2, WCE (6)

[Sedat]

I have different win/loss figures there Sedat:

WIN: Ess, Freo, Haw, Rich (4)
LOSS: Carl, Coll, Geel, StK x 2, WCE (6)
Rich x 2 ;)

[hujsh]

Making a few errors recently TCD. Gotta lift your game mate.;)