Priority Picks

[The Coon Dog]

Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but I envisage changes after this season to they way the AFL allocates priority picks to clubs after 2 consecutive poor seasons.

Currently, a team that fails to win more than 4 games receives a priority pick after the first round of the National Draft.

If a club fails to win more than 4 games in 2 consecutive years, then they would receive a priority pick before the first round of the National Draft.

Now, here's where my cynicism kicks in. If a team qualifies for a priority pick next year, after receiving one this year, will the AFL allow a situation to arise where a team then gets a pick before GC17?

Just have a feeling that the AFL will make changes at the end of this season, which will be just so convenient to GC17.

Obviously, what I'm speculating is just pure guess work on my part.

[GVGjr]

The whole issue of tanking games to obtain a PP is a blight on the game and the only way around it is to remove the whole PP option.
To assist clubs that have consecutive bottom two finishes the AFL should allow an extra $300,000 in the salary cap for the first season and $150,000 for the second season so that the club concerned can recruit a ready made player which is a quicker solution.

We can't be serious about a competition that has fans willing their team to lose games.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The whole issue of tanking games to obtain a PP is a blight on the game and the only way around it is to remove the whole PP option.
To assist clubs that have consecutive bottom two finishes the AFL should allow an extra $300,000 in the salary cap for the first season and $150,000 for the second season so that the club concerned can recruit a ready made player which is a quicker solution.

We can't be serious about a competition that has fans willing their team to lose games.

While I agree the PP has to go, why should they get salary cap relief?

They're already on the bottom, their salary cap payments should already be way under 100%. If you give them extra salary cap room all they'll do is steal a good player from another club.

I am passionate about keeping good players at their club for their entire career.

My nephew got the shits and lost interest in football when Nathan Brown left us. He's never really got back into it. I took him to games when he was younger and still offer to, he just isn't interested.

Finish last and get the first draft pick, that's enough help for anyone. You want to get back up the ladder, draft and trade well. If your administration is a shambles, fix it or stay on the bottom.

[LostDoggy]

Run a lottery between the bottom 8 teams, will fix the tanking issue.

[GVGjr]

Run a lottery between the bottom 8 teams, will fix the tanking issue.

Unfortunately there is no fair way of doing this.

[LostDoggy]

Unfortunately there is no fair way of doing this.

Run it like the NBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

[GVGjr]

Run it like the NBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

The NBA don't have a PP so there is little too no relevance for the AFL.

IMO, the draft isn't the issue for the AFL nor is the order of the draft.
The issue that needs to be addressed is about the notion that sides tank games to obtain a PP.
Once the PP is gone, I think the tanking issue goes with it.

Let the bottom two sides fight out who gets the first pick because it doesn't mean that much over a long period anyway. Generally speaking one pick won't change things most years but two early picks can over say two years.

To even the competition and not let sides be down in the cellar for too long the AFL needs to find a way that assists sides in need but ensuring that they are still playing to win.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Run a lottery between the bottom 8 teams, will fix the tanking issue.

No need.

Ditch the priority picks and the problem goes away.

No-one would chose to get the stigma of a wooden spoon just to get first choice between Watts, Natanui, Hill and Rich.

We won't know who the best player from that draft will be for about another 10 years.

[GVGjr]

While I agree the PP has to go, why should they get salary cap relief?

They're already on the bottom, their salary cap payments should already be way under 100%. If you give them extra salary cap room all they'll do is steal a good player from another club.

I am passionate about keeping good players at their club for their entire career.

My nephew got the shits and lost interest in football when Nathan Brown left us. He's never really got back into it. I took him to games when he was younger and still offer to, he just isn't interested.

Finish last and get the first draft pick, that's enough help for anyone. You want to get back up the ladder, draft and trade well. If your administration is a shambles, fix it or stay on the bottom.

They clearly need more assistance than what you are proposing though and the PP will stay unless a better compromise can be offered.

As for players staying loyal to clubs, it's a grand notion but supporters are the first to want to write off even good players when there is a slight sniff that they are struggling and then cry when the star players dessert them in their prime for more money.
Loyalty is a two way street.

Your nephew wasn't a passionate supporter by the sounds of things and if the success that we are enjoying now can't inspire him back to the fold he was never going to be a long term supporter.

He should have been taught to be more passionate about the club than any of the players.

[The Coon Dog]

No-one would chose to get the stigma of a wooden spoon just to get first choice between Watts, Natanui, Hill and Rich.



Or Adam Cooney & Andrew Walker. ;)

[mighty_west]

While I agree the PP has to go, why should they get salary cap relief?

They're already on the bottom, their salary cap payments should already be way under 100%. If you give them extra salary cap room all they'll do is steal a good player from another club.

I am passionate about keeping good players at their club for their entire career.

My nephew got the shits and lost interest in football when Nathan Brown left us. He's never really got back into it. I took him to games when he was younger and still offer to, he just isn't interested.

Finish last and get the first draft pick, that's enough help for anyone. You want to get back up the ladder, draft and trade well. If your administration is a shambles, fix it or stay on the bottom.

I guess there are going to be some unhappy fans when the GC rip through a few clubs as well as West Sydney.

The hot tip is Tippett from the Crows, being a Queenslander, with Adelaide being starved for key forwards as much as us in recent times, they finally have a beauty coming through, develop him to a stage where he's finally making a name for himself, and bam, gone!

[Sockeye Salmon]

They clearly need more assistance than what you are proposing though and the PP will stay unless a better compromise can be offered.



Our priority picks have been Farren Ray and Tom Williams. They're hardly the reason we've forced our way up the ladder.

Without PP we still would have been able to draft Cooney and Griffen, a huge factor in us improving.

If you dump a dud coach and get a gun one, if you pick the best player of his draft year with pick 11 when no-one else rated him and kids picked with 3rd and 4th rounders (and rookie picks) turn into All-Australians, you'll be top 4 in no time.


My point is, get rid of your duds, on and off field, and do things right and you will still end up playing finals.

I just don't like clubs getting a free ride; whether it's using cash to buy players or tanking to draft them.

[mighty_west]

It's fair to say Geelong are a reason why you don't need PP's for success, in fact, would Selwood [7] have been their highest pick in recent times?

[GVGjr]

Our priority picks have been Farren Ray and Tom Williams. They're hardly the reason we've forced our way up the ladder.

Without PP we still would have been able to draft Cooney and Griffen, a huge factor in us improving.

If you dump a dud coach and get a gun one, if you pick the best player of his draft year with pick 11 when no-one else rated him and kids picked with 3rd and 4th rounders (and rookie picks) turn into All-Australians, you'll be top 4 in no time.

Kosi/Riewoldt and Franklin/Roughead counteract that though.

You're making it sound simplistic but it's not that easy. Clubs go through financial situations that simple can't cope with the demands and the AFL has to find a way to assist them without encouraging supporters to think that losing games of footy is in their best interest.

We both agree that the PP should go but a solution to further assist some clubs when required needs to be established.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Kosi/Riewoldt and Franklin/Roughead counteract that though.

You're making it sound simplistic but it's not that easy. Clubs go through financial situations that simple can't cope with the demands and the AFL has to find a way to assist them without encouraging supporters to think that losing games of footy is in their best interest.

We both agree that the PP should go but a solution to further assist some clubs when required needs to be established.

Kosi/Roo & Buddy/Roughead are the exact examples I'm against. It's too big of a hand out. Geelong and us have shown you don't need priority picks to get up the ladder.

If St. Kilda only got Riewoldt or Hawthorn only got Roughead, that would have been plenty enough help. Even with Kosi & Roo St.Kilda still only come good when they got rid of their dud coach.

Make them do things better, don't just give them a few superstars.


The other stupid thing anout PP is by the time these kids come good, the crisis is over and the club is challenging for the finals again. Their gun draft pick doesn't help them when they're bottom, he's the icing that help them win a premiership 7 years later.

[aker39]

I don't think you can use Geelong as an example. They've had their own form of priority pick (father son).

Gerard Healy said on 3AW tonight that he rang the AFL today to find out what the priority pick would be next year with GC coming in. They told him that they hadn't decided yet. Gerard & Dwayne both thought that there would be no priority pick next year.

[The Coon Dog]

Seems that the PP doesn't have too many friends. Bet Scotty Clayton is lobbying hard for its abolition.

[mighty_west]

I don't think you can use Geelong as an example. They've had their own form of priority pick (father son).

.

Well you can, and whilst they did well with a few father son selections lower down in the draft, they have really only come out with 2 players that had a real impact in helping Geelong become the team it has over the past 3 years.

Scarlett & Gary Ablett.

Although Scarlett was their 4th selection, the second father son selection that year with Marc Woolnough taken earlier on, unfortunatly for Marc, had some shocking injuries and never fired a shot, Scarlett wasn't rated that high back in '97, so had the rules been the same back then as it is today, he most likely would have been taken around the same time, so you can more or less scrub Scarletts name off the list.

They hit the jackpot with Ablett in 2001 however, they also had a very good draft that season as well, some very good work by their recruiters, and i'm not too sure if Ablett was rated that highly at the time.

Nathan Ablett no longer plays & is hardly a factor in their dominance, Hawkins will most likely be a good player, but also isn't a factor in their dominance, although they did get Joel Selwood gift wrapped from not having to select Hawkins with pick 7..

You compare that with say the Saints, and they have had picks 1 - Rewoldt, pick 2 - Kosi, pick 2 - Luke Ball, pick 1 - Goddard, all elite players.

Then you get a Freo, and trade off all their good draft picks away...:D, fortunatly for them, they picked up Pav, otherwise things would have been really messy.

[Mofra]

Ditch the priority picks and the problem goes away.
Agree.

The first round priority picks are far too much incentive for a club to tank, rest injured player, put them in for early surgery etc.

WCE are close to priority picks despite being two years away from 5th place. Strange.

[soupman]

What about the suggestion that comes up on Bigfooty alot in that draft order and picks should be determined after round 15, provided the draw is designed so that every team has played eachother up to that point.

It's too early for tanking to really take hold, and would give a fairer indication. Personally I'm fine if they abolish it, but this could be a good alternative should they choose to keep it. And maybe make the cut off mark 2 wins or something.

[Desipura]

What about the suggestion that comes up on Bigfooty alot in that draft order and picks should be determined after round 15, provided the draw is designed so that every team has played eachother up to that point.

It's too early for tanking to really take hold, and would give a fairer indication. Personally I'm fine if they abolish it, but this could be a good alternative should they choose to keep it. And maybe make the cut off mark 2 wins or something.
I do not take any notice of suggestions on other sites. All the good ones areon here!

[hujsh]

Kosi/Roo & Buddy/Roughead are the exact examples I'm against. It's too big of a hand out. Geelong and us have shown you don't need priority picks to get up the ladder.

Also Kruzer/Judd trade

[GVGjr]

What about the suggestion that comes up on Bigfooty alot in that draft order and picks should be determined after round 15, provided the draw is designed so that every team has played eachother up to that point.



That one has been doing the rounds on the radio for a couple of weeks but I think it does is move the tanking speculation forward by a few weeks.

The PP should go but there does not appear to be an easy solution to assist a club in dire straights without giving them too much assistance.

[bornadog]

That one has been doing the rounds on the radio for a couple of weeks but I think it does is move the tanking speculation forward by a few weeks.

The PP should go but there does not appear to be an easy solution to assist a club in dire straights without giving them too much assistance.

Assume the PP goes, the system is still designed to give the bottom team the first draft pick, so calls for tanking will still be made, so the whole draft system needs to be looked at.

[GVGjr]

Assume the PP goes, the system is still designed to give the bottom team the first draft pick, so calls for tanking will still be made, so the whole draft system needs to be looked at.

I don't think so. At the very least it will be minimised. The main speculation is that teams drop games to not exceed 4 wins so as they can get the extra pick.

We didn't have the same type of issue or speculation when the PP was at the start of the 2nd round.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Assume the PP goes, the system is still designed to give the bottom team the first draft pick, so calls for tanking will still be made, so the whole draft system needs to be looked at.

1st pick, 2nd pick, 3rd pick pfft. Who cares?

Most years there's not even agreement about who should be the no. 1 pick.

Watts, Natanui, Hill, Rich; it was all personal preference.

I've never seen a bigger standout no. 1 than Rich last year and he went pick 7!



Essendon said they rated Ryder no 1, Clayton said he rated Shaun Higgins no 2 in their years.


If you finish in the bottom few, you're going to get a good player and the difference between them at that age is minimal. The advantage is when you get two of them in one year.

[azabob]

The priority pick is back on the agenda in a big way.

It appears a number of clubs will be applying for one.

Coupled with free agent compensations the draft order will be serverly compromised.

Firstly I think that free agency compensation should be scrapped as the lure of compensation is too great - Carlton is a great example.

If the AFL still requires so called equalisation methods should they look at a draft style lottery system as they do in the NBA? Where a random draw occurs, with the lower ranked clubs have more enteries in the lottery.

What do other posters think?

Should priority picks remain in its current format?
Should the draft continued to be changed?
Should free agency compensation remain?

[The Underdog]

The priority pick is back on the agenda in a big way.

It appears a number of clubs will be applying for one.

Coupled with free agent compensations the draft order will be serverly compromised.

Firstly I think that free agency compensation should be scrapped as the lure of compensation is too great - Carlton is a great example.

If the AFL still requires so called equalisation methods should they look at a draft style lottery system as they do in the NBA? Where a random draw occurs, with the lower ranked clubs have more enteries in the lottery.

What do other posters think?

Should priority picks remain in its current format?
Should the draft continued to be changed?
Should free agency compensation remain?

The NBA draft lottery hasn’t stopped tanking in any way. Teams just try to tank for a bigger chance at pick 1. Sure, they may not get it but it doesn’t stop them trying. I don’t see any benefit from bringing in a lottery.
I’m also not a fan of free agency comp. Although I can see the sense in the case of Gold Coast with Lynch.
Priority picks should be shelved and never spoken of again.

[Bulldog Joe]

The Free Agency compo should be paid by the club receiving the free agent, not the rest of the competition.

It also should only apply for those in the Restricted Free Agency category.

The current system means that the entire competition collectively pays the compensation by slipping down the draft order.

There is no benefit for any team not receiving Tom Lynch to move a step away from picking their preferred draftee.

[mjp]

The Free Agency compo should be paid by the club receiving the free agent, not the rest of the competition.

It also should only apply for those in the Restricted Free Agency category.

The current system means that the entire competition collectively pays the compensation by slipping down the draft order.

There is no benefit for any team not receiving Tom Lynch to move a step away from picking their preferred draftee.

The NFL does the compensation pick thing - the difference is that the rules and the compensation are clear...I like the fact the afl does it - I don’t like that the compensation and rules aren’t clear and the draft is only one month away.

[comrade]

There is no benefit for any team not receiving Tom Lynch to move a step away from picking their preferred draftee.

It's true and it gets to the heart of why the current FA process is broken.

Why should we cop a 1 pick penalty because Lynch decides to go to Richmond?

[choconmientay]

Stevo on 7News reported Carlton won't get a priority pick this year. Watch out for his twister ...

[azabob]

Reports, no clubs are getting priority picks.

However speculation is that Carlton and Gold Coast will have priority access to 1 state league players each and not have to give up a draft pick.

The stupid thing is apparently Carlton & GCS can then ontrade that player on draft night. Surely that can’t be an option.

[Bullies]

Reports, no clubs are getting priority picks.

However speculation is that Carlton and Gold Coast will have priority access to 1 state league players each and not have to give up a draft pick.

The stupid thing is apparently Carlton & GCS can then ontrade that player on draft night. Surely that can’t be an option.
Carlton will on trade their pick to Adelaide as part of the deal for for McGovern as Adelaide want one of the local full forwards.

[Axe Man]

So apparently St Kilda will ask for a priority pick because they have had a lot of injuries! We should have asked for one in 2016 in that case.

Unforeseen setbacks have Saints considering priority draft pick (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-18/st-kilda-to-consider-asking-afl-for-priority-draft-pick)

ST KILDA will consider approaching the AFL for a priority pick in this year's NAB AFL National Draft after a season ravaged by unforeseen player setbacks.

While extra assistance has traditionally been made as a result of on-field performance, the new criteria - introduced in 2012 - also takes into account excessive injury rates.

The Saints have this year been without first-choice trio Dylan Roberton (heart), Paddy McCartin (concussion) and Jack Steven (mental health) for much of the season.

When asked about the prospect of approaching the AFL for a priority pick on Thursday, Saints head of football Simon Lethlean said it was a conversation worth having.

"It's an interesting scenario, we've also got Billy Longer and Lewis Pierce (out through concussion)," Lethlean told SEN.

"We've certainly got some unusual circumstances that don't relate to soft tissue and other injuries that could have a significant effect on our TPP (Total Player Payments) and our ability to manage our list as well as you could for reasons that are a bit out of our control.

"We'll certainly have conversations internally with the AFL about how that looks for us going forward. I think that's a fair question to raise."

When asked about the Saints' chances of landing a priority pick, AFL football operations manager Steve Hocking told SEN it was in the club's hands to make the first approach.

New priority pick rules were founded in 2012, leaving the discretion at the hands of the AFL Commission.

In that time, only Brisbane in 2016 has been awarded an additional pick. The Lions won a combined seven games during the 2015 and 2016 seasons.

St Kilda won four matches in 2018, with six victories on the board this season with as many matches to go, and will enter 2020 with a new senior coach after parting ways with Alan Richardson on Tuesday.

As revealed by AFL.com.au, Gold Coast is also set to request the No.1 pick in this year's national draft.

[bornadog]

Has anyone heard of anything so ridiculous as the article above. FFS, the reason you have 45 on the list is to cover your injuries. Too bad Saints.

[Twodogs]

But, but, but, Linda, listen, listen...

Doesn't the fact they have so many injuries mean they have a number of AFL standard players sitting on the sidelines waiting to come into the team already? Maybe they need less draft picks and more decent medical staff?

[hujsh]

But, but, but, Linda, listen, listen...

Doesn't the fact they have so many injuries mean they have a number of AFL standard players sitting on the sidelines waiting to come into the team already? Maybe they need less draft picks and more decent medical staff?

Yeah it's totally at odds with the idea of priority picks. Unless they lose the players permanently to injury in which case MAYBE you have a case

[Twodogs]

Yeah it's totally at odds with the idea of priority picks. Unless they lose the players permanently to injury in which case MAYBE you have a case

Yep it's a bit silly. The sort of thing that gets said without fully engaging the brain first.

[Happy Days]

I say give it to them - they'll just draft someone terrible anyway so it will help sort the wheat from the chaff on draft night.

[1eyedog]

Maybe a new head of recruiting. You can't receive a PP because you pissed your picks up against a wall c'mon.

[The Doctor]

well folks lets join the queue as well then.

We won a Grand Final with about half a dozen good players with legitimate claims to be in the best 22 on the sidelines long term that year.

Since then, we've lost Boyd, Picken and Clay Smith for similar unforseen circumstances. Throw in Redders, Biggs & that ruckman who lasted about 5 games in the ressies. It's absurd from St Kilda they are even contemplating this.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

well folks lets join the queue as well then.

We won a Grand Final with about half a dozen good players with legitimate claims to be in the best 22 on the sidelines long term that year.

Since then, we've lost Boyd, Picken and Clay Smith for similar unforseen circumstances. Throw in Redders, Biggs & that ruckman who lasted about 5 games in the ressies. It's absurd from St Kilda they are even contemplating this.

They have had absolutely all the luck in the world with injuries the last few years. This is the first year and the cry poor. We’ve been up against it the last three years. Shouldn’t we have had 3 priority picks!? Saints need to be careful with the messages they are sending or they will become the next Melbourne/carlton

[Bulldog Joe]

Yeah it's totally at odds with the idea of priority picks. Unless they lose the players permanently to injury in which case MAYBE you have a case

Aren't they actually in danger of losing players permanently to illness/injury

Roberton - Heart Complaint
McCartin - Concussion

They are also talking about concussion issues for Longer and Pierce.

[bornadog]

Aren't they actually in danger of losing players permanently to illness/injury

Roberton - Heart Complaint
McCartin - Concussion


They are also talking about concussion issues for Longer and Pierce.

Liam Picken and Tom Boyd say hello

[Rocket Science]

Hey, we've dropped games to both Carlton and Gold Coast.

We'll have one too thanks.

[Hotdog60]

It would be a good idea actually if all the lower teams that aren't in the eight did it so the AFL can say hold everybody there are no PP this year.

[The Doctor]

When asked about the prospect of approaching the AFL for a priority pick on Thursday, Saints head of football Simon Lethlean said it was a conversation worth having.


Lethlean should have the conversation with his President who says the Saints should be challenging for the top 8 next year. But Lethlean wants the easy way out. Looks like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing at the Saints. But thats just normal.

[macca]

Lethlean should have the conversation with his President who says the Saints should be challenging for the top 8 next year. But Lethlean wants the easy way out. Looks like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing at the Saints. But thats just normal.
Leatherlan doesnt need to talk to the other hand , just the right ear of MAC Lachlan at City Hall. I can’t help but be cynical that conversations have happened and now they are trying to sell story why they deserve a pp to hide all the pathetic excuses including sacking their coach, who seemed to be doing a decent job with a crap list .

This is the team that let go : stanley and Tom lynch who could not get a game. Dan hannebry ? He was done after the 2016 GF or at least his knee was


Didn’t sainters beat us from 30 points down in one game in our premiership year ? Richardson can’t be that bad as a coach ???

“Conversations worth having “ I read btw the lines they have happened.... , like brad scott has not been approached ( sarcasm off)

[AshMac]

It would be a good idea actually if all the lower teams that aren't in the eight did it so the AFL can say hold everybody there are no PP this year.

That’d be interesting - 2 rounds of picks for the teams that don’t make finals before 8th gets its first.

[Twodogs]

Leatherlan doesnt need to talk to the other hand , just the right ear of MAC Lachlan at City Hall. I can’t help but be cynical that conversations have happened and now they are trying to sell story why they deserve a pp to hide all the pathetic excuses including sacking their coach, who seemed to be doing a decent job with a crap list .

This is the team that let go : stanley and Tom lynch who could not get a game. Dan hannebry ? He was done after the 2016 GF or at least his knee was


Didn’t sainters beat us from 30 points down in one game in our premiership year ? Richardson can’t be that bad as a coach ???

“Conversations worth having “ I read btw the lines they have happened.... , like brad scott has not been approached ( sarcasm off)


It was more than that I think. I reckon we were 55 points up at halftime We also kicked the first goal (Ayce Cordy) of the last quarter to put us 26 points in front and that should have been enough held them off.

[jeemak]

It was more than that I think. I reckon we were 55 points up at halftime We also kicked the first goal (Ayce Cordy) of the last quarter to put us 26 points in front and that should have been enough held them off.

I think you're referring to the game we lost Clay Smith to a knee. In 2016 we lost Mitch Wallis to a broken leg.

The players were shattered in each game. Francis Leach the shithead bagged us for being too emotional, then we won the premiership and his team didn't.

[Happy Days]

It was more than that I think. I reckon we were 55 points up at halftime We also kicked the first goal (Ayce Cordy) of the last quarter to put us 26 points in front and that should have been enough held them off.

That game was my fault. I got to the ground just in time to see Clay do his knee.

[The Pie Man]

I think you're referring to the game we lost Clay Smith to a knee. In 2016 we lost Mitch Wallis to a broken leg.

The players were shattered in each game. Francis Leach the shithead bagged us for being too emotional, then we won the premiership and his team didn't.

Think he was drunk tweeting the next week's Friday night game vs Geelong when we lost Libba & Macrae to injury. He hungover deleted a few, then hungover blocked a few (or maybe just me)

I thought of St Kilda and people like him a fair bit after October 1st 2016. :cool:

[Twodogs]

I think you're referring to the game we lost Clay Smith to a knee. In 2016 we lost Mitch Wallis to a broken leg.

The players were shattered in each game. Francis Leach the shithead bagged us for being too emotional, then we won the premiership and his team didn't.

Right you are, it was 2016, geez we've thrown some leads away against the Saints.


Back in the day I used to know most of the bouncers around Melbourne and would vouch to them for Franger (he hates being called that) and get him into see bands before he had turned 18 by telling them that I would keep an eye on him and make sure that he didn't play up. I wish I hadn't bothered now.

[Bulldog4life]

Think he was drunk tweeting the next week's Friday night game vs Geelong when we lost Libba & Macrae to injury. He hungover deleted a few, then hungover blocked a few (or maybe just me)

I thought of St Kilda and people like him a fair bit after October 1st 2016. :cool:

And me and my cousin in WA. Anyone else?

[jeemak]

Does he still have a job?