Umpiring tonight - an objective view please

[Dry Rot]

Frankly, I've had an utter a shit of a day, so I was really delighted to have to nurse a sick friend tonight rather than properly listen to the game tonight... :(

Fast forward to after full-time. I log on to another well known footy site and read all these cry baby Dons fans crapping on about how the Dogs were gifted so many goals NB in the first half.

These poor excuses for men seemed to imply that we were very lucky or the umps were biased - not what I got from snippets from the ABC radio coverage.

Are these Dons fans soft or did we deserve our frees or did we get a free ride?

Or from the ABC radio call, are these whinging Dons fans are just soft pillow biters?

[GVGjr]

We got a decent go of it but it was hardly anything that really changed the result of the game. Things like Hahn's terrific effort of running down an opponent in the last quarter won us the game.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Frankly, I've had an utter a shit of a day, so I was really delighted to have to nurse a sick friend tonight rather than properly listen to the game tonight... :(

Fast forward to after full-time. I log on to another well known footy site and read all these cry baby Dons fans crapping on about how the Dogs were gifted so many goals NB in the first half.

These poor excuses for men seemed to imply that we were very lucky or the umps were biased - not what I got from snippets from the ABC radio coverage.

Are these Dons fans soft or did we deserve our frees or did we get a free ride?

Or from the ABC radio call, are these whinging Dons fans are just soft pillow biters?

Anyone who complains about umpires is a pillow biter.











*Waits for ES to bite*

[Happy Days]

The umpiring was okay tonight; we probably got the run of the green with some soft decisions leading to goals, but the majority were completely obvious.

The reason for the lop-sided free kick count was that Essendon were caught behind all night, leaving them exposed in one on ones. They also played with no awareness, and must've gotten run down from behind at least 5 times.

[Bulldog4life]

An interesting stat before I comment on the frees in this game is that before the game Essendon were number 1 in the League this season to kick goals from free kicks. Western Bulldogs were in 15th position.

I thought most of the frees were there except maybe Cooneys. Overall we played in front and put ourselves in a position to get frees.I have to admit I also didn't see Higgins free but looking at the replay in was struck in the face while on the ground.
But then again I didn't see Essendon's free and subsequent 50 metre penalty which resulted in a goal to them.
All the Essendon supporters around me were crying about the frees we were getting......it was beautiful. :D

[LostDoggy]

All the Essendon supporters around me were crying about the frees we were getting......it was beautiful. :D

Yeah I was surrounded by them. Yes the umpiring was shocking and maybe in our favor but hello Essendon supporters, your 2 big forwards got destroyed by their opponents..maybe dont blame the umps for everything about the loss?

[LostDoggy]

They let alot of the match go, it ended up being very free flowing, probably a little bit too free flowing..
But none-the-less, the umpires picked the frees that were there, the reason why the free kick count may have been lobsided, is the the dogs were desperate with their tackles, and the dons were reckless with their defending at some parts of the match.

[The Adelaide Connection]

If you watch the highlight reel of all of all of the Scott Welsh contests you will quickly see that the decisions certainly didn't go our way all night. He was being held and pushed in the back all night and finally they cottoned on and gave him one in the last.

[LostDoggy]

The Essendon supporters were amongst the worst I've ever seen at complaining for free kicks tonight. Maybe they should focus on watching their team lose based on key areas in a game of football, such as centre clearances, inside 50s and being out muscled rather than free kick counts

[boydogs]

Overall we played in front and put ourselves in a position to get frees

Precisely. Too high, in the back, holding all come into play when you are in front of your opponent or first to the ball. Our forwards did this well and our defenders were good at creating a contest without giving one away. These things are skills that we were much better at tonight than our opposition

[mighty_west]

Umpiring is viewed mostly by fans every week with rose coloured glasses on, if you don't like the umpiring, find a sport with no officials, most boring subject week in week out.

You listen to SEN for a few hours after the game, and 99% of talk EVERY WEEK is how bad the umpiring is.....YAWN!

[LostDoggy]

Result aside, umpiring was ok! They tried to let it go and it worked. Maybe the pace of the game helped them.

[bornadog]

Yeah I was surrounded by them. Yes the umpiring was shocking and maybe in our favor but hello Essendon supporters, your 2 big forwards got destroyed by their opponents..maybe dont blame the umps for everything about the loss?

I was also surrounded by whinging Bomber supporters. Believe me, they are the biggest cry babies of all time about umpiring. The guy behind me started bagging the umps even before the game started.

Yes, we had seven shots at goal from frees, and I recon only 2 could have gone either way. The others were all there, just watch the replay.

The fact is they had 7 shots at goal in the second half and we had 18.

[LostDoggy]

I was also surrounded by whinging Bomber supporters. Believe me, they are the biggest cry babies of all time about umpiring. The guy behind me started bagging the umps even before the game started.

Yes, we had seven shots at goal from frees, and I recon only 2 could have gone either way. The others were all there, just watch the replay.

The fact is they had 7 shots at goal in the second half and we had 18.

EXACTLY. I had Essendon supporters like that near me. They seem to be the biggest cry babies, I've never seen any other supporter group like that before.

[AndrewP6]

I thought the majority of our frees were there... sure, a couple might've been a bit sus, but most were OK... and they missed a few for Johnno and Welsh...

[G-Mo77]

I thought the free Higgins got just before half time was a terrible decision. The rest seemed like they were there. Just idiot Essendon supporters blaming everyone but themselves as usual. :eek:

[Remi Moses]

The Cooney decision was a shocker as was the non 50 Welsh didn't get. There are 3 of lifes definetes death,taxes and moaning out of Whingy Hill:rolleyes:

[The Pie Man]

Minson's free and 50 from Fletcher was really bad - but anything else I thought didn't look great at the time made more sense on the replay...I'm thinking Higgins' 3rd quarter goal and Welsh in the last.

As GVGjr said, it didn't have an impact on the result

[Go_Dogs]

I noticed the Bombers really tried to play 'tough' footy, but ended up doing a lot of cheap hits and stupid things that gave away frees.

Those 2 50's that Reimers (?) received, was b/s. I noticed about 4 or 5 occasions afterwards in which the exact same thing happened - someone applied a block, shirt grabbing, hold and prevent a player running on to receive the handball again. We've bashed the umpires a lot lately though, and they did ok last night, and we got a good run, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

[Ozza]

Although we probably got the better of the umpires overall - the only free kick that resulted in a gola that was doubtful was Higgins in the third quarter - which was probably a bit hard on them. The others were all very obvious free kicks. We won more free kicks because we were first to the ball in the second half.

[The Pie Man]

Although we probably got the better of the umpires overall - the only free kick that resulted in a gola that was doubtful was Higgins in the third quarter - which was probably a bit hard on them. The others were all very obvious free kicks. We won more free kicks because we were first to the ball in the second half.

Looked soft at the time, but that was a free. It's hard to not make front on contact in that situation, but if you do - and the Essendon player did - it's a free.

[Stefcep]

I noticed the Bombers really tried to play 'tough' footy, but ended up doing a lot of cheap hits and stupid things that gave away frees.



100% spot on. They have got too many angry little Irishmen in their side. The Mcveigh's the McPhees and a few of their younger kids try the cheap shots and sook when they get caught.

Last week I was critical of the way the umps seemed to even out the frees, but at 21-9 i think it refelcts the way the game played. Why SHOULD the frees be even when the quality of the two sides wasn't.

i

[LostDoggy]

Hmm it would appear from people's comments that we did get a good run, but considering whenever we play Geelong and the Saints we have to play the umpires too, take it when it is on offer. Didn't change the outcome of the game anyway.

[craigsahibee]

100% spot on. They have got too many angry little Irishmen in their side. The Mcveigh's the McPhees and a few of their younger kids try the cheap shots and sook when they get caught.

Last week I was critical of the way the umps seemed to even out the frees, but at 21-9 i think it refelcts the way the game played. Why SHOULD the frees be even when the quality of the two sides wasn't.

i

McPhee - Quite possibly the greatest waste of space on any AFL list. As long as he is in Essendon's best 22, they aren't going anywhere.

As for the umpiring last night, I couldn't say it was any better or worse than any other week. As long as they pay what they see and maintain some sort of consistency individually and as a group it's all the players and the fans want.

Having said that, Scott Welsh did have some claims in the first half last night. On the Foxtel reply after I got home McAvaney and Cometti were singing the praises of Hurley on Welsh, but it's pretty easy to stop your opponent getting the footy when you tackle and sit on him when he doesn't have it.

[alwaysadog]

No doubt the Bombres have improved but they are a middle ranking team trying to beat top sides and are really not yet able to match us for quality or strength, so to stop us they had to be desperate and that lead to them to be all over their man and to transgressing.

What their fans were unhappy about is that for once they were getting caught regularly. That is the facts about the situation. I don't think they actually have too much to complain about as there were several occasions on which we ran down a player with the ball, who had "prior opportunity" and usually that is an automatic free, but not last night.

In the second quarter they became quite physical but all this did was to leave them exhausted by half time. As our players were walking off several of their's were down on their haunches sucking in breath. I thought then they had spent their their energy and only had a few points to show for it.

As well they targeted a few players like Higgins who will be a very sore young man for some days. Today's umpires know when this is happening so pay particular attention to incidents involving those players; spotting contact to the face while Higgins was on the ground is just one case in point. Of course the Bombre fans didn't see this and as they were already in a booing frenzy, evidence to the contrary was the last thing they wanted to acknowledge.

This distracts from a proper analysis of where they are at. They like to do the "we were robbed" defense when in reality they are light on for quality and their ageing stars are still being relied on to do the heavy lifting and need more help than they get. As well some of their mature players like McPhee appear incapable of filling the void.

Perhaps rather than complain about the umpiring they might reflect on their lost opportunities. They had several shots in the last quarter a lot more gettable than Higgins one but failed to do what he did. What does this tell about the umpiring, how can they be blamed for those?

[LostDoggy]

No doubt the Bombres have improved but they are a middle ranking team trying to beat top sides and are really not yet able to match us for quality or strength, so to stop us they had to be desperate and that lead to them to be all over their man and to transgressing.

What their fans were unhappy about is that for once they were getting caught regularly. That is the facts about the situation. I don't think they actually have too much to complain about as there were several occasions on which we ran down a player with the ball, who had "prior opportunity" and usually that is an automatic free, but not last night.

In the second quarter they became quite physical but all this did was to leave them exhausted by half time. As our players were walking off several of their's were down on their haunches sucking in breath. I thought then they had spent their their energy and only had a few points to show for it.

As well they targeted a few players like Higgins who will be a very sore young man for some days. Today's umpires know when this is happening so pay particular attention to incidents involving those players; spotting contact to the face while Higgins was on the ground is just one case in point. Of course the Bombre fans didn't see this and as they were already in a booing frenzy, evidence to the contrary was the last thing they wanted to acknowledge.

This distracts from a proper analysis of where they are at. They like to do the "we were robbed" defense when in reality they are light on for quality and their ageing stars are still being relied on to do the heavy lifting and need more help than they get. As well some of their mature players like McPhee appear incapable of filling the void.

Perhaps rather than complain about the umpiring they might reflect on their lost opportunities. They had several shots in the last quarter a lot more gettable than Higgins one but failed to do what he did. What does this tell about the umpiring, how can they be blamed for those?

I agree with your points and watching the replay 99% of decisions were there. I could have even picked more but the umpires perhaps held back a little.

[G-Mo77]

I agree with your points and watching the replay 99% of decisions were there. I could have even picked more but the umpires perhaps held back a little.

I watched the replay of the last quarter when I got ome last night. Even the 7 commentators were asking for more frees to be paid against Essendon and they should have been! When Welsh took a mark and was pushed in the back it should have been 50. I think Cometti laughed when it wasn't.

[LostDoggy]

We got a decent go of it but it was hardly anything that really changed the result of the game. Things like Hahn's terrific effort of running down an opponent in the last quarter won us the game.

Agree G we did get a decent run i actually dont mind McLaren umpiring our games especially against Essendon!
But our number of run downs & our overall run & ability to keep playing & believing in our game style won us the game.
Start with the Saints early next week & we can run them down for a win to .
Hopefully we will get them at the right time.

[Topdog]

Although we probably got the better of the umpires overall - the only free kick that resulted in a gola that was doubtful was Higgins in the third quarter - which was probably a bit hard on them. The others were all very obvious free kicks. We won more free kicks because we were first to the ball in the second half.

That was 100% a free kick, no eyes for the ball and no idea where the ball was before hitting Higgo front on.

Cooney's was not a free and Minson's was very harsh. As for the rest if anything the umps were lenient towards Essendon. At almost every marking contest in our forward 50 they would either push, grab or chop arms. Stupid.

[AndrewP6]

watching the replay when I got home, had a good laugh when one of the bombers was given a 50m penalty for his "demeanour"...

[Mofra]

watching the replay when I got home, had a good laugh when one of the bombers was given a 50m penalty for his "demeanour"...
That was Fletcher. I didn't think it warranted a 50m penalty to be honest.

[Remi Moses]

100% spot on. They have got too many angry little Irishmen in their side. The Mcveigh's the McPhees and a few of their younger kids try the cheap shots and sook when they get caught.

Last week I was critical of the way the umps seemed to even out the frees, but at 21-9 i think it refelcts the way the game played. Why SHOULD the frees be even when the quality of the two sides wasn't.

i

settle with the irish. New day more whining,more talk on key forwards. Nothing positive about our second half pressure skills,defensive effort best for years. Typical of people like brereton always talking up the negatives :mad::mad:

[LostDoggy]

Minson's free and 50 from Fletcher was really bad - but anything else I thought didn't look great at the time made more sense on the replay

I saw very little of the game but saw this one. No one mentioned that Higgins was running into an open goal anyway.

[AndrewP6]

That was Fletcher. I didn't think it warranted a 50m penalty to be honest.

Not sure if he said anything to go with his 'demeanour' but, yeah it did seem a bit harsh... funny though... my love for the monkeys grows each day...NOT!

[boydogs]

I saw very little of the game but saw this one. No one mentioned that Higgins was running into an open goal anyway.

Forgot about that. I think the umpire called 'no advantage' before the 50 was given which I found quite strange

[craigsahibee]

watching the replay when I got home, had a good laugh when one of the bombers was given a 50m penalty for his "demeanour"...

Had to laugh even harder when Fletcher was heard to say ""I don't even know what that word means""

And his Dad was a teacher at the school he went too:confused:

[The Pie Man]

Had to laugh even harder when Fletcher was heard to say ""I don't even know what that word means""

And his Dad was a teacher at the school he went too:confused:

This was when the ump said he was being 'demonstrative'

I thought Fletcher might have said 'you' (as in the umpire) don't know what it means - amusing all the same.

Over sensitive twat, they need to employ more common sense in those situations.

[AndrewP6]

Had to laugh even harder when Fletcher was heard to say ""I don't even know what that word means""

And his Dad was a teacher at the school he went too:confused:

Haha missed that bit... big Fletch doing nothing for the "Big Dumb footballer" tag..

[LostDoggy]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but watching the replay, the only free kick I thought that was a bit harsh was the one given to Minson for chopping the arms.

I read on another forum one Essendon supporter saying that it affected their players in that they didn't know what they could and couldn't do because of these free kicks, in turn destroying their momentum. You'd have to be a pretty stupid footballer (McPhee) to not know that you can't pull on the jumper of a player (Hahn) to the point where you can clearly see his under shirt!

[LostDoggy]

I thought the free kick for Cooney was really soft, but a minute or so later Essendon got one in our forward 50 that was just as, if not more soft- at least the umpire was consistent on that one. The one for Minson I called an arm chop in play and was not surprised to see it paid, despite the Essendon supporters outrage- the 50 was obviously very soft, but I'd say the 50 they got was soft as well (albeit a new rule, which goes unnoticed 90% of the time), while Welshy definitely should have got a 50 late in the game and was probably a bit unlucky not to get a couple of frees earlier in the game. As for the Higgins one, it had to be a free kick- the guy had absolutely no eyes on the football and made contact with Higgins (who only had eyes on the ball and would have marked it otherwise).

About 4-5 of our frees were run downs from behind which could simply have not been anything but free kicks, they tried to take us on and lost in those contests. A few of them were undisciplined arm chops or pushes and so on, and they all add up. I'll admit the umpires didn't do much to hurt our chances of winnig, but they definitely missed a few that the commentators seemed more firm about than any missed ones from Essendon, or just the ones that we did get.

[LostDoggy]

I constantly dream of getting soft free kicks against Essendon especialy those that result in goals

[Sockeye Salmon]

I constantly dream of getting soft free kicks against Essendon especialy those that result in goals

The sweet, beautiful sound of an Essendon supporter whinging.... ahhh, music to my ears.

[westdog54]

Hmm it would appear from people's comments that we did get a good run, but considering whenever we play Geelong and the Saints we have to play the umpires too, take it when it is on offer. Didn't change the outcome of the game anyway.

Personally I don't share the view that we got a good run.

I have never and will never understand the mentality that the free kick count should be even. If one side is more reckless with their attack on the ball/player and are second to the ball more often than not it stands to reason the free kick count should be lopsided.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I remember a game a few years ago v North when they smashed us.

They were big and strong and at the top of their game and we were full of 70kg draftees.

Every time we went near the ball they belted us. The free kick count ended up about 45-8 (exaggeration) in our favour and they won by 10 goals. It was a pre-meditated plan from them to belt up the little blokes.


I think Essendon were the opposite on Friday.

Young, little blokes determined to prove to the bigger bodied opposition that they could hand it out. They could, it just cost them.

We were very disciplined in our attack on the man and ball.

[Stefcep]

Personally I don't share the view that we got a good run.

I have never and will never understand the mentality that the free kick count should be even. If one side is more reckless with their attack on the ball/player and are second to the ball more often than not it stands to reason the free kick count should be lopsided.


I agree. In fact, the free kick count should hardly ever be even. The fact that the free kick count IS even in many (most?) game is the real concern

[alwaysadog]

The sweet, beautiful sound of an Essendon supporter whinging.... ahhh, music to my ears.

One of the most beautiful sounds in football and a guaranteed indication that they are getting done.

[alwaysadog]

I agree. In fact, the free kick count should hardly ever be even. The fact that the free kick count IS even in many (most?) game is the real concern

Have always thought that the umps get a 3/4 time count and try to even it out in the last 1/4. If not it's a supreme mystery why this happens so often. That it didn't happen on Friday last says all that needs to be said about how the bombres were playing.

[Mofra]

That it didn't happen on Friday last says all that needs to be said about how the bombres were playing.
5 of our 20 free kicks were from run down holding the ball decisions, all clear as day. We can't be penalised for the lack of awareness of Bombers players. 14-9 in favour of the winning side doesn't sound as bad. I think we may have gotten the rub of the green but I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary, with the exception of Minson's 50m penalty.

[aker39]

Have always thought that the umps get a 3/4 time count and try to even it out in the last 1/4.

I can guarantee you 100% that it does not happen.

[Stefcep]

I can guarantee you 100% that it does not happen.


OK so why do most games end with about even free kicks?

[aker39]

OK so why do most games end with about even free kicks?

Do they?

Here are the stats from Round 16.

Essendon 9
Bulldogs 20

Carlton 15
Sydney 10

Geelong 20
Melbourne 16

Freo 16
Brisbane 21

Pies 21
Hawks 17

Power 22
Eagles 17


Tigers 14
Kangas 18

St Kilda 16
Crows 7

[Topdog]

How dare you use facts in a witchhunt aker39?

[alwaysadog]

Do they?

Here are the stats from Round 16.

Essendon 9
Bulldogs 20

Carlton 15
Sydney 10

Geelong 20
Melbourne 16

Freo 16
Brisbane 21

Pies 21
Hawks 17

Power 22
Eagles 17


Tigers 14
Kangas 18

St Kilda 16
Crows 7

The stats I'd like to see are those for our games with the 3/4 time and the final free kick counts.

[Topdog]

The stats I'd like to see are those for our games with the 3/4 time and the final free kick counts.

So this only happens in Bulldogs games?

[Stefcep]

Do they?

Here are the stats from Round 16.

Essendon 9
Bulldogs 20

Carlton 15
Sydney 10

Geelong 20
Melbourne 16

Freo 16
Brisbane 21

Pies 21
Hawks 17

Power 22
Eagles 17


Tigers 14
Kangas 18

St Kilda 16
Crows 7

I'd like to see the season results. Two games aside, there's no more than 5 frees difference, still pretty close, in one round. And do the whole season and see what you get

[aker39]

I'd like to see the season results. Two games aside, there's no more than 5 frees difference, still pretty close, in one round. And do the whole season and see what you get

I'm not going to waste my time posting the seasons results, but I will post the 1st 3 rounds.

[aker39]

Round 1


Ric 15
Car 23

Haw 29
Gee 35

Col 14
Ade 18

Bri 26
Wce 30

Stk 24
Syd 16

Mel 25
Ntm 16

Por 19
Ess 19

Fre 21
WB 22

[aker39]

Round 2

Ade 11
Stk 29

Gee 21
Ric 31

Col 16
Mel 23

Car 17
Bri 21

Swa 30
Haw 25

Ess 21
Fre 18

WB 21
Ntm 20

Wce 20
Por 11

[aker39]

Round 3

Gee 15
Col 17

Stk 24
Eag 32

Bri 25
Syd 24

Car 26
Ess 21

Por 22
Mel 17

Ntm 32
Haw 21

Fre 24
Ade 15

WB 16
Ric 18

[aker39]

Make of those stats what ever you like.

But do you really think someone is going to look at the scoreboard, see that the free kick count is lop sided, and think, I'm going to jepordise my career in the last quarter and pay some free kicks just to make sure that the free kick count is even.