Riewoldt - The Danger man, Who matches up on him?

[bornadog]

Last time we played Morris on him and was clearly beaten. In the past few years, Morris has beaten Riewoldt, however, Riewoldt is in career best form and I believe a bit too strong and big for Morris. Riewoldt has been averaging 10 marks a game, 17.4 disposals per game and has kicked 50 goals 32 points, so lots of shots at goal.

Should Lake take him on, or Williams, or do we go with Morris again?

[Happy Days]

Morris would have to take him surely; he has the past performances to back him up. Its too big an ask for Tommy Gun, and he would burn Brian on the lead.

If he does get beaten, then we can always chuck Tommy on to him.

Another option to consider is to double him. With Kossie all but out, Riewoldt is their sole focal point. Having Shags drop back in front of him and thus cutting off supply could lead to great frustration for them, and even better rebound out of the back 50 for us. Harbrow isn't beyond shutting out Milne, so I feel we could use Shaggy in a Harley/Maxwell role this game without fear of getting burned.

[LostDoggy]

Morris starts on him - the psychological factor is a big one and as he has beaten Riewoldt quite a few times he may have the mental wood on him regardless of how they are travelling at any time (ie. Hawthorn over Collingwood).

If Morris is getting beaten, Williams has all the tools to go with him (apart from footy smarts, but this matters less when you are playing a purely negating role).. not many genuine talls in the AFL with aerobic and athletic capacity of these two (probably Franklin and Pav are the only others in the same league).

Lake shouldn't take Riewoldt except as a last resort, as he will be dragged all over the ground and won't be able to play the rebounding role he does so well. Playing on a lesser tall will also allow Brian to be the third man up at all forward 50 marking contests involving Riewoldt.

[Mantis]

Morris is best suited, but will need help up the ground which didn't happen in our earlier clash this season.

Lake's role will be interesting. Last time around he matched up on a lesser opponent in Gwilt, but was all at sea in terms of when to zone off, etc.. Now that his confidence is high I hope he has a big influence on proceedings.

[1eyedog]

IMO if Kosi plays then Lake will go to him but if Morris goes to Riewoldt I do not see a match up for Tommy down there. I'd rather Tom on Saint Nick and Hargrave on Milne perhaps and Morris on Schneider or Goddard if he goes forward.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Williams.

[jazzadogs]

I'd say Williams. This is the kind of test he needs to be given...he showed that he's got the ability to shut down key forwards in the Hawthorn game last year. What's his tank like though? That might be the only problem.

If Kosi is out, they might bring in someone like Maguire who has been playing forward for their VFL side? Lake could play on them, with Morris on Schneider/Goddard/floating forward. Harbrow on Milne is best I think, there's no better defensive match up for Jarrod.

Will be interesting to see how Eade deals with it though...will show just how much faith he has in Williams.

[The Pie Man]

It has to be Williams - I challenge the view Morris has a good record on Riewoldt.... he's tried damn hard but has lost out more than he's won on him. We have to see how Tom can perform on someone with the aerobic capacity such as Riewoldt, and has the physical attributes (i.e height) to match it with him.

[Happy Days]

Williams.

Just because?

[1eyedog]

Just because?

It seems like the right match up clearly. Who else will Williams play on? Sorry to cut in on these posts:o

[Happy Days]

It seems like the right match up clearly. Who else will Williams play on? Sorry to cut in on these posts:o

If you look beyond the physical similarites, Riewoldt will smash Williams. Morris has proven to be consistently better over the journey.

Williams to go to Gardiner/King/McEvoy.

[Rance Fan]

Morris to take him. I dont think Tom has the tank to go with him. What we will need is the midfield to flood forward and fill in the spaces

[lemmon]

With Kosi out I'd expect Riewoldt to spend a far bit of time at full forward. I'd have Lake play on him, he's in arguably career best form so it would be the best forward on the best backman. Tommy would be my second choice if Riewoldt got a hold of Lake, physically he's our best matchup. Morris would be my last option, Riewoldt toweled him up last time and the height differance is fairly substantial even if Dale does have the biggest heart in the business.

[alwaysadog]

Another option to consider is to double him. With Kossie all but out, Riewoldt is their sole focal point. Having Shags drop back in front of him and thus cutting off supply could lead to great frustration for them, and even better rebound out of the back 50 for us. Harbrow isn't beyond shutting out Milne, so I feel we could use Shaggy in a Harley/Maxwell role this game without fear of getting burned.

The real solution as you suggest is not just a one to one strategy but to a) have our mid fielders cut his supply of preferred ball and b) to have other defenders ready to block his space on leads and c) have others ready to help out by punching the ball away in contests and d) to clog up his space and those of his helpers like Milne.

Easy to write about, implementation index rating - very very difficult.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Just because?

This week's not the be all to end all.

I want Williams to see that Riewoldt is human and can be beaten. And to learn what's required to do it.

And to see where Williams is at.

[alwaysadog]

This week's not the be all to end all.

I want Williams to see that Riewoldt is human and can be beaten. And to learn what's required to do it.

And to see where Williams is at.

Agree totally with the first statement and few have recognised that point.

I would really like Williams to beat him but is he ready yet? Might well learn what's needed though.

Still maintain that without a proper help strategy no defender has a chance, because his mid field and forwards have a strategy to support him.

IMHO it's as much about how effective team strategies are as it is about individuals.

[AndrewP6]

At the moment, I'd say Lake... he's in the best form, and I reckon Morris is a bit small...then again, that might take away from Lake's rebounding attack...anyhoo, I'd start with Lake, and if that isn't working, Morris. Not sure Tommy is up to that sort of challenge yet. Fortunately for the Dogs, I'm not coach!

[alwaysadog]

At the moment, I'd say Lake... he's in the best form, and I reckon Morris is a bit small...then again, that might take away from Lake's rebounding attack...anyhoo, I'd start with Lake, and if that isn't working, Morris. Not sure Tommy is up to that sort of challenge yet. Fortunately for the Dogs, I'm not coach!

Lake isn't the best option for a fast leading forward and old nick gets a lot of his goals this way, I'd think that Morris or Williams are better at this aspect of defensive play, on the other hand if it's the high ball then Lake is the man. Maybe be fluid rotations on old nick are the best solution.

[boydogs]

Williams to Riewoldt - the job he was born for. Can match if not exceed him in all areas - height, strength, fitness. Would love to see some mongrel from Tommy giving Nick a hard time with a big tackle or two to boot

[alwaysadog]

Williams to Riewoldt - the job he was born for. Can match if not exceed him in all areas - height, strength, fitness. Would love to see some mongrel from Tommy giving Nick a hard time with a big tackle or two to boot

All my prayers answered.

[bornadog]

With Kosi out I'd expect Riewoldt to spend a far bit of time at full forward. I'd have Lake play on him, he's in arguably career best form so it would be the best forward on the best backman. Tommy would be my second choice if Riewoldt got a hold of Lake, physically he's our best matchup. Morris would be my last option, Riewoldt toweled him up last time and the height differance is fairly substantial even if Dale does have the biggest heart in the business.

I would think that with Kosi out, the Saints will rest Gardiner or King in the forward line, and therefore, Williams will pick one of them up. If Riewoldt plays at FF, then Lake is the man, however, if he plays up the ground, Morris may have to go with him. Essendon tried to push Lake up the ground with Lloyd playing up the ground, but Lake didn't have a bar of it and it backfired. Riewoldt is a better player and works extremely hard, especially running up the ground, which means Lake is not the man.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I would think that with Kosi out, the Saints will rest Gardiner or King in the forward line, and therefore, Williams will pick one of them up. If Riewoldt plays at FF, then Lake is the man, however, if he plays up the ground, Morris may have to go with him. Essendon tried to push Lake up the ground with Lloyd playing up the ground, but Lake didn't have a bar of it and it backfired. Riewoldt is a better player and works extremely hard, especially running up the ground, which means Lake is not the man.

Lake would totally own King or Gardner, Lyon would never allow it.

[alwaysadog]

Lake would totally own King or Gardner, Lyon would never allow it.

In spite of Brian giving away quite a few centimetres, I agree. Not only is he far too mobile for them he would kill them on the rebound.

[jazzadogs]

I doubt that they will play Riewoldt close to goal, even with Kosi out. They will have a contingency plan, because Riewoldt's greatest strengths are his marking and ability to run and run and run and run. He gets lots of marks/goals by running around so much that his opponent is trailing him, meaning that hes either too far away from his opponent or his opponent is too exhausted to effectively spoil. And he's just a great player. Lake's role is not to play on players like that. He's a FB, not a CHB. Williams is still my go to man, purely for experimentation (and hopefully a confidence boost!!)

Wouldn't be surprised to see Goddard start down forward, like he did earlier in the season when he kicked 3-4goals in the first quarter. Morris needs to be the one handling players like that.

Not sure they'll be willing to play McEvoy primarily as a forward. Maguire must surely be in their team now, with both Dawson and Kosi out. Will be interesting.

[AndrewP6]

Lake isn't the best option for a fast leading forward and old nick gets a lot of his goals this way, I'd think that Morris or Williams are better at this aspect of defensive play, on the other hand if it's the high ball then Lake is the man. Maybe be fluid rotations on old nick are the best solution.

Fair points... the rotations might be the way to go.

[FrediKanoute]

Agree totally with the first statement and few have recognised that point.

I would really like Williams to beat him but is he ready yet? Might well learn what's needed though.

Still maintain that without a proper help strategy no defender has a chance, because his mid field and forwards have a strategy to support him.

IMHO it's as much about how effective team strategies are as it is about individuals.

From my perspective Williams needs to play on Reiwolt and beat him from both a development perspective and because he needs to be seen as a player capable of beating the best forwards. Last year Williams played the gameof his life against Hawthorn and at the very least broke evenwith Buddy and was a BIG part in us beating them.

Using Morris to beat Riewolt is a short term measure, which is not even guaranteed of success. Williams is the tall, mobile backman who has the athleticism to challenge these guys and he should be given first crack.

[Mantis]

From my perspective Williams needs to play on Reiwolt and beat him from both a development perspective and because he needs to be seen as a player capable of beating the best forwards. Last year Williams played the game of his life against Hawthorn and at the very least broke evenwith Buddy and was a BIG part in us beating them.

Using Morris to beat Riewolt is a short term measure, which is not even guaranteed of success. Williams is the tall, mobile backman who has the athleticism to challenge these guys and he should be given first crack.

Riewoldt is arguably best key forward in the game at present. I think it's an unfair expectation to think Williams who has only played 29 AFL games can beat a far superior opponent. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years when Tom has some more experience can we expect him to beat such a seasoned player.

[Bulldog Joe]

Williams to Riewoldt - the job he was born for. Can match if not exceed him in all areas - height, strength, fitness. Would love to see some mongrel from Tommy giving Nick a hard time with a big tackle or two to boot


Precisely.
While Williams is probably still a bit off, the experience of playing on Riewoldt can equip him to do better the next time they play.
Giving the job to Williams is the positive approach.

If Tommy gets beaten he will learn some things about Riewoldt and himself and if he is the competitive animal you expect from someone at this level he will be determined to do better at the next meeting. Additionally Williams has further improvement while Riewoldt is at the top of his game.

If Tommy handles the assignment with any degree of success the confidence boost for him and the team will be enormous.

It also allows the other defenders to play the roles they are best suited to. Lake should provide strong rebound against whoever he plays on with Kosi out and Morris will be able to take a player more in his size range.

[Mofra]

Riewoldt is arguably best key forward in the game at present. I think it's an unfair expectation to think Williams who has only played 29 AFL games can beat a far superior opponent. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years when Tom has some more experience can we expect him to beat such a seasoned player.
Interetsing point, but I'd try Willaims first with Morris as second choice, under the assumption that Williams will signal Glove at some point - if we guage an idea of how each player goes against Riewoldt we will be able to plan more effectively for a finals likelyhood.

[1eyedog]

Riewoldt is arguably best key forward in the game at present. I think it's an unfair expectation to think Williams who has only played 29 AFL games can beat a far superior opponent. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years when Tom has some more experience can we expect him to beat such a seasoned player.

I agree. But conversely Tom really did do a number on Franklin last year in Tassie when he was in white hot form. Franklin kicked 4 or 5 but 3 of them were absolute gimmes and Tom beat him hands down. Time for the big man to step up.

[Mantis]

Interetsing point, but I'd try Willaims first with Morris as second choice, under the assumption that Williams will signal Glove at some point - if we guage an idea of how each player goes against Riewoldt we will be able to plan more effectively for a finals likelyhood.


I agree. But conversely Tom really did do a number on Franklin last year in Tassie when he was in white hot form. Franklin kicked 4 or 5 but 3 of them were absolute gimmes and Tom beat him hands down. Time for the big man to step up.

Guys I have no problems with Williams going to Riewoldt, but I can already hear the abuse he will cop if Nick beats him. For the long term development of Tom I hope he plays on Riewoldt for atleast a half on Saturday night.

A lot will depend on the state of the match, but in reality there is no better training tool than in the heat of the battle so hopefully Tom can stand up for us, because as previously mentioned Tom is probably our best equipped player physically for 'Saint Nick'. I am just not sure if he has the footy smarts to go with him just yet.

[The Coon Dog]

If our mids fail to apply pressure on the St.Kilda mids as they come forward it wont matter who takes Reiwoldt, they'll get towelled up.

Pressure the kicker, force them wide, make them worry at all times.

[LostDoggy]

If our mids fail to apply pressure on the St.Kilda mids as they come forward it wont matter who takes Reiwoldt, they'll get towelled up.

Pressure the kicker, force them wide, make them worry at all times.

This is an interesting truism TCD -- we always talk about midfield pressure determining backline effectiveness, yet coaches drop a player into the hole behind the ball to sweep up or play the loose man in defence/third man up.

If the theory that midfield dominance is more important than one-on-one matchups in the backline, wouldn't the more effective tactic than be to put the extra man into the middle (or at the stoppage)? I know this is old hat -- Sydney and Adelaide have been doing this for yonks, and many teams clog up the stoppages -- but Geelong made man-on-man sexy again. But then teams are just finding their playmakers further back (in the half-back line) to burst through the congestion.

This is no great revelation -- teams are doing both anyway now (clogging up the middle and dropping a player behind the ball) which makes for ugly low-scoring spectacles in some instances. Where the Saints have taken the game to another level is in the transition between a clogging style defence (which they've worked on the past couple of seasons) into an effective, high-scoring offence.

It helps that they have the premier mobile CHF in Riewoldt who can link play with his athletic ability, and a host of line busting players who can distribute the ball effectively. The key to their team is their half back line of Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher and Brendon Goddard, which gives them the most effective and efficient defence-to-attack system in the league. It's hard to shut all three down in a game (and Farren gives them a good extra 'out' option), but that's the key to unlocking the Saints.

Easier said than done, obviously.

[Mofra]

Guys I have no problems with Williams going to Riewoldt, but I can already hear the abuse he will cop if Nick beats him. For the long term development of Tom I hope he plays on Riewoldt for atleast a half on Saturday night.

A lot will depend on the state of the match, but in reality there is no better training tool than in the heat of the battle so hopefully Tom can stand up for us, because as previously mentioned Tom is probably our best equipped player physically for 'Saint Nick'. I am just not sure if he has the footy smarts to go with him just yet.
I think any bagging of Tom (he has past SS's 20 game barrier ;) will depend on how he gets beaten. If Riewoldt takes marks but Tom pushes him long and wide (either outside of scoring range or at least in the low=percentage scoring areas) then I'd be comfortable with that. If Riewoldt starts taking marks in the F50 hotspots Tom will come under greater scrutiny.

I' not sure anyone is really expecting Tom to flog Riewoldt, but a break-even result in the context of his form would be fantastic for us.

[Mantis]

I think any bagging of Tom (he has past SS's 20 game barrier ;) will depend on how he gets beaten. If Riewoldt takes marks but Tom pushes him long and wide (either outside of scoring range or at least in the low=percentage scoring areas) then I'd be comfortable with that. If Riewoldt starts taking marks in the F50 hotspots Tom will come under greater scrutiny.

I' not sure anyone is really expecting Tom to flog Riewoldt, but a break-even result in the context of his form would be fantastic for us.

Agree with that.

In terms of where we are going this year and over subsequent years Tom really needs to start playing on guys like Riewoldt. It's been unfair on Morris to continually punch above his weight (he has done an admirable job) so hopefully Tom can put in a good showing.

[The Coon Dog]

Teams that have played a loose man in defence against St.Kilda to combat Reiwoldt have all copped a 10 goal belting as it has allowed Fisher or Gilbert to play loose.

Gilbert & Fisher simply must be made accountable.

[Mofra]

Teams that have played a loose man in defence against St.Kilda to combat Reiwoldt have all copped a 10 goal belting as it has allowed Fisher or Gilbert to play loose.

Gilbert & Fisher simply must be made accountable.
Arguably, we've struggled in every game we don't go 6 on 6, especially our forwardline. I'd rather us back our boys and risk a shootout that let a set-up merchant slay us, or let Ray run down the wing all day again.

[bulldogsman]

Guys I have no problems with Williams going to Riewoldt, but I can already hear the abuse he will cop if Nick beats him. For the long term development of Tom I hope he plays on Riewoldt for at least a half on Saturday night.

A lot will depend on the state of the match, but in reality there is no better training tool than in the heat of the battle so hopefully Tom can stand up for us, because as previously mentioned Tom is probably our best equipped player physically for 'Saint Nick'. I am just not sure if he has the footy smarts to go with him just yet.

Nor the fitness. I'm for it too, but there's just no way Tom could play a full game on Riewoldt. Maybe a half, with Morris rotating with him.

[Mantis]

Gilbert & Fisher simply must be made accountable.

And Goddard & Blake & ....

As you and Mofra have pointed out we have to be brave enough to back our defenders in by going man on man in both defence and more importantly attack.

[LostDoggy]

Williams is our man for the job - Morris and Lake are both back ups only.

I dont expect Tommy to beat Riewoldt, just to break even. As others have alluded to though - it will really depend on how much pressure our midfield is able to exert on the Saints runners who will be trying to put it down Reiwoldt's throat.

I think that Williams will benefit greatly from playing on Riewoldt - the better the player he lines up on, the better he tends to play.

[boydogs]

I think that Williams will benefit greatly from playing on Riewoldt - the better the player he lines up on, the better he tends to play.

Agree with this. The more he is in the play the better he gets. He is not yet productive when his opponent is quiet but can go with them when they are making the play

[Sockeye Salmon]

We have all missed one very obvious answer ...




































Bring back Ben Harrison

[The Coon Dog]

Bring back Ben Harrison

There was me, being nice to Twodogs today telling him I'm going to speak with Lally tomorrow, & what do you go & do........ ;)

[FrediKanoute]

Riewoldt is arguably best key forward in the game at present. I think it's an unfair expectation to think Williams who has only played 29 AFL games can beat a far superior opponent. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years when Tom has some more experience can we expect him to beat such a seasoned player.

I can see your point, but still think that we should be asking a lot of a guy like Willams. He is a talented athlete and playing on a natural footballer like Riewolt will provide a very valuable lesson in running to the right positions. I think we tended to cotton wool Williams a little and use his lack of footy knowledge as an excuse. A guy his size and athletecism should be able to go with Riewoldt. Yes he`s going to get beaten in a couple of contests and may even be beaten outright, but the lessons he learns from the time spent on Riewoldt will pay dividends down the track.

[FrediKanoute]

I think any bagging of Tom (he has past SS's 20 game barrier ;) will depend on how he gets beaten. If Riewoldt takes marks but Tom pushes him long and wide (either outside of scoring range or at least in the low=percentage scoring areas) then I'd be comfortable with that. If Riewoldt starts taking marks in the F50 hotspots Tom will come under greater scrutiny.

I' not sure anyone is really expecting Tom to flog Riewoldt, but a break-even result in the context of his form would be fantastic for us.

Pretty much where I am coming from. At some point Williams needs to make the transition to the top line plyer we want him to be and the only way he will do this is by playing on good oponents.

[LostDoggy]

with Kosi out I say double barrow Riewoldt with Williams and Morris, that way Williams gets the opportunity to learn and has the support of Morris. The next time we play them could be in a GF and we need to see what will work.

[Desipura]

with Kosi out I say double barrow Riewoldt with Williams and Morris, that way Williams gets the opportunity to learn and has the support of Morris. The next time we play them could be in a GF and we need to see what will work.

And then who do we leave free to roam the Saints forward line?

[Stefcep]

If our tackling intensity is down, if their midfield gets on top, then it won't matter who we put on Reiwoldt, he'll kick 6 and we'll get hammered. Tackle hard on their prime movers, win the ball in the middle and Reiwoldt won't matter. The first quarter is critical for us. We have to keep up with them early, and if we're within 2-3 goals at three quarter time we will win.