Game Day - Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for this Saturday night's game at Etihad Stadium against St Kilda.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 12 points
BOG : Adam Cooney
Brad Johnson to kick the first goal.

[boydogs]

Dogs by 4 points
First Goal Scott Welsh
BOG Matthew Boyd
Last Goal Brad Johnson :D

[AndrewP6]

DOgs by 5 points
BOG to Griff
First goal WILLBUR!!!!

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 15
BOG Brian lake
Joshy to kick the 1st goal

[LostDoggy]

St Kilda by 17
BOG Riewoldt
Johno first goal

[Desipura]

dogs by 2 points, Hargreave first goal. Johnno to kick the winner

[The Coon Dog]

Dogs by 37 points.

Will to kick the first & Boydy to be BOG.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 16
Hahn First
Johnno BOG

[GVGjr]

Defining game for us in my opinion. Our illusions vs reality.

With that in mind

Dogs by 14 points in a thriller
Morris BOG and Griffen for the BOG.

[comrade]

Dogs by 37 points.

Will to kick the first & Boydy to be BOG.

Yikes! :D

Dogs by 9 points
First goal: Hill
BOG: Cooney

[DOG GOD]

Just about to leave to the airport for the game so......

Saints by 27 pts

Johnno 1st goal
Riewoldt BOG
Lake best for dogs

[The Underdog]

Dogs by 13 points
Higgins first goal
Hargrave BOG

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Dogs by 27 points
HiggIns BOG
Mitch first Goal

[comrade]

Is everyone genuinely confident, or just being loyal in picking us tonight?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Is everyone genuinely confident, or just being loyal in picking us tonight?

No I think we have a little unfinished business here, and that they will find it hard to man up the forward line.

The only issue that i see is can Hill, Eagle and Minson not be exposed for lack of offensive pressure.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 4
Cooney BOG
Higgins first goal


Would be nice to win a close one after the Collingwood and Geelong games ..

[Rocket Science]

Predicting a slow start from us, after which we'll claw back and hang with them for much of the duration, before they break away in the 4th.

Saints by 24 points.
Hargrave BOG.
Akermanis with our first major.

PS: Whatever bloody happens I'm praying we at least keep Ray quiet...am thoroughly sick of a Saint-supporting mate's endless gloating. Brutal.

[AndrewP6]

Is everyone genuinely confident, or just being loyal in picking us tonight?

I'm being loyal.... but hoping to hell I get this one right..

[1eyedog]

Saints by 16 points
Hope we play 4 quarters of football then it will be close
Higgins first snag
Boyd BOG

If Cooney and Griffen are in our best 5 players we'll win it

[LostDoggy]

Bulldogs by 9 points,
Johnno will bag 4 goals,
Lake B.O.G. (my smokey for the Brownlow!)

[LostDoggy]

Bulldogs by 9 points,
Johnno will bag 4 goals,
Lake B.O.G. (my smokey for the Brownlow!)

Missy kicks the opener!

[LostDoggy]

Fingers Crossed (in fact, cross everything!:

Dogs by 2 points
BOG = Johnno
First Goal = Boyd
:D

[Max469]

Dogs by 5

Murph 1st goal

Hargrave BOG

[bornadog]

Dogs by 17 points

BOG Johnno

Johnno first goal.

[NoName]

Dogs by 20
Higgins to kick the opening goal
Murphy - BOG

[The Underdog]

Is everyone genuinely confident, or just being loyal in picking us tonight?

I tipped us in my work comp where I'm running 2nd. I don't necessarily tip us if I don't think we're going to win. I'm as confident as I could be against clearly the best team in the competition.

[Happy Days]

Saints by 16,
Minson 1st Goal,
Lake BOG.

[Before I Die]

I tipped us in my work comp where I'm running 2nd. I don't necessarily tip us if I don't think we're going to win. I'm as confident as I could be against clearly the best team in the competition.

I'm afraid the last minute withdrawal of Gilbee has moved me from the "confident" group into the "nervous but still hopeful" group.

[Dry Rot]

Saints only 39 points ahead now. We seem to have no forward line again and can't get the ball anyway.

From the radio call, I can't pick a Dogs player who is winning his position.

[LostDoggy]

Oh, f***cking yay.

I'm trying to not throw things at the tv when I see Farren.

But really, dissapointing.

[chef]

For someone sitting in Fiji, what is going on?

[Dry Rot]

For someone sitting in Fiji, what is going on?

Half time Saints 9.5 Dogs 4.4

From the radio call, we're beaten across the ground (except Boyd) NB the Saints defenders are rebounding at will.

Inside 50s about even. Saints 70 marks, Dogs 40 odd. Dogs 9 turnovers -> Saints goals.

Saints have a forward line, we don't. We're under pressure when we go forward and what do you know, our dwarf forward line is ineffective. Hahn & Welsh have done nothing.

Can't see a comeback tonight. Hope I'm wrong - lucky I have to work tonight and can't listen to this crap anymore.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Saints only 39 points ahead now. We seem to have no forward line again and can't get the ball anyway.

From the radio call, I can't pick a Dogs player who is winning his position.

And I can confirm that it doesn't paint a better picture from the vision I'm watching on Fox.

[becmatty]

Folks, what is the link to watch online live? Go Doggies!!!

[Before I Die]

Lots of fumbling on both sides, but more forward line and mid field pressure from the saints. Eagle has been very hard at it and laid a number of good tackles but undone his hard work by being caught himself and fumbling a few times.

24 points down now.

Higgins gone with a hamstring and Murphy may be the same (yet to be confirmed).

18 points now, goal to Eagleton

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Lots of fumbling on both sides, but more forward line and mid field pressure from the saints. Eagle has been very hard at it and laid a number of good tackles but undone his hard work by being caught himself and fumbling a few times.

24 points down now.

Higgins gone with a hamstring and Murphy may be the same (yet to be confirmed).

18 points now, goal to Eagleton

Higgins has done a hammy, I thought it was just the ongoing problem with his groin, and he'd further aggravated it. Doesn't look good for him for the immediate future.

I don't think Murphy has done his hammy, merely feeling tightness, which could be a pre-cursor to it going, so it will be a brave club doctor that Okay's him to come on again in the 4th quarter.
Going to be hard though for us with 3 players down.

Good work rate by our boys in the 3rd. Have given ourselves some chance if we can get on the scoreboard early in the last.

[Dry Rot]

Came across a live stream, and it looks worse on TV.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Came across a live stream, and it looks worse on TV.

Any hope was snuffed out by the interchange snafu right at the start of the last.
Since then it's been a comedy of errors.
What makes this worse is that Saints are not just having fun with it and are running away.
And what makes it even worse than that is that Milne is having a field day.... and I cannot stand that little rat.
WE're going to be belted in the last now.

[Dry Rot]

Well at least we know where we sit now.

We wouldn't have beaten the Cats or Hawks today, flogged by Saints tonight and beaten by the Pies. And a style and forward line that fails against the best sides.

We won't cause much trouble for other sides in September.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well at least we know where we sit now.

We wouldn't have beaten the Cats or Hawks today, flogged by Saints tonight and beaten by the Pies. And a style and forward line that fails against the best sides.

We won't cause much trouble for other sides in September.

I think we'll do okay in the finals, but I can see another pre-lim loss when we come up against either Geelong or Saints, and a possibility we could get rolled by Collingwood.
Either way we have some distance to bridge between the elite sides and will need some big improvement over the summer if we are to take the next step, and in addition we will need one of our young tall forwards to press for game time.

We could do worse than have a look at the way the Saints have gone about things this year.

[Dry Rot]

I think we'll do okay in the finals, but I can see another pre-lim loss when we come up against either Geelong or Saints, and a possibility we could get rolled by Collingwood.
Either way we have some distance to bridge between the elite sides and will need some big improvement over the summer if we are to take the next step, and in addition we will need one of our young tall forwards to press for game time.

We could do worse than have a look at the way the Saints have gone about things this year.

I just don't understand those who believe that we have a viable system and forward line under top team pressure.

[Before I Die]

I just don't understand those who believe that we have a viable system and forward line under top team pressure.

In the middle of last year would you have believed those who said Ray is good enough to be in the best 22 of a side which has won 17 in a row? Before the season started would you have believed that the Saints with the essentially the same list as last year would be that side?

We lost to Gellong by 2 points and Collingwood by 1 point. Are they the other top teams you refer to? I think our system is very good and our forward line is viable, but I also believe that if Grant has a reasonable game tomorrow he should come in for Welsh.

[Sedat]

I just don't understand those who believe that we have a viable system and forward line under top team pressure.
Too easy to say that DR. We got it in our forward 50 enough times tonight but the appalling lack of defensive pressure from our entire forward line was an indictment to the entire forward 6.

And to state the bleeding obvious, the 12 St Kilda goals directly from Dogs turnovers (of which only 2-3 were from strong St Kilda pressure) didn't help things.

[Topdog]

I just don't understand those who believe that we have a viable system and forward line under top team pressure.

It's all well and good but we could have had Barry Hall, Tony Lockett and Dunstall in our forward line tonight and still only kicked 10 goals. We were just booting it into our forward line without looking most of the time and it was always going straight to one of the 5 loose defenders the Saints were playing.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Too easy to say that DR. We got it in our forward 50 enough times tonight but the appalling lack of defensive pressure from our entire forward line was an indictment to the entire forward 6.

And to state the bleeding obvious, the 12 St Kilda goals directly from Dogs turnovers (of which only 2-3 were from strong St Kilda pressure) didn't help things.

My concern is that this has been a problem for the best part of this season, we leak more goals from turnovers than all but a couple of other teams. I think only Freo or possibly West Coast are worse than us in this area.

Is this due to the style of game we play due to not having the long target to go to? That is, we need to play a riskier style of game in order to ensure we can get the ball quickly into our forward line. and if are skill are slightly off in moving the ball and we turn it over and all of a sudden it's easy for the opposition to hit us on the rebound as our guys are out of position.

[BulldogBelle]

In the middle of last year would you have believed those who said Ray is good enough to be in the best 22 of a side which has won 17 in a row? Before the season started would you have believed that the Saints with the essentially the same list as last year would be that side?

We lost to Gellong by 2 points and Collingwood by 1 point. Are they the other top teams you refer to? I think our system is very good and our forward line is viable, but I also believe that if Grant has a reasonable game tomorrow he should come in for Welsh.


On Ray....in a word. Confidence. In himself. In his team. Its also amazing how everyone on a winning side can look pretty good.

[Dry Rot]

It's all well and good but we could have had Barry Hall, Tony Lockett and Dunstall in our forward line tonight and still only kicked 10 goals. We were just booting it into our forward line without looking most of the time and it was always going straight to one of the 5 loose defenders the Saints were playing.

I watched some pretty crappy forward 50 entries this afternoon but Roughead coped.

But I agree that our midfield melts under pressure.

[Topdog]

I watched some pretty crappy forward 50 entries this afternoon but Roughead coped.

But I agree that our midfield melts under pressure.

The same Roughead who lost Hawthorn the game with his ineffectiveness in the last quarter. Dropped some absolute sitters today and has been pretty crap in a lot of games. Certainly not what I'd be using as an argument.

Anyhow Hawthorn's entries into the F50 were a heck of a lot better than most of ours. We need to be telling our forwards to stay in the forward line and make the defenders stay there. This is essential esp. against sides like St. Kilda who use their spare backmen to switch play.

[BulldogBelle]

-Our midfield just didnt work hard enough all night....Cooney has gone backwards to his 2005 form...

-Our disposal was terrible. The amount of times that we blasted the ball into the F50, pretty disgusting how the Saints defenders took probably double the amount of marks that we did in our own F50....instead of looking to play on everytime we get the ball we needed to stop, prop and look for the right option in the F50

-Our forwards were sucked in too far up the ground many times. There were heaps of occasions when there was no one in our F50, or from the centre square forwards....

-Our skills were woeful at times. Minson just kept dropping marks he should have took...does the guy need to wear gloves or put some tape on his hands? The amount of clangers, the amount of times our guys dropped the ball cause they were affraid of being thumped...GRR

-I watched the game on TV...from the first bounce the Channel 10 commentators were masturbating over the St Kilda players and absolutly rubbishing ours....I know its standard for that to happen to an undefeated side...annoying though

At least we are playing the Shockers next week

[Rance Fan]

Why didnt they have a defensive forward to Goddard?? Did he kill us earlier in the year also?
Forwards not big enough/cant mark and the smalls dont put enough defensive pressure/too slow for my liking.
Where was the brownlow medalist??...injured?

[Dry Rot]

The same Roughead who lost Hawthorn the game with his ineffectiveness in the last quarter. Dropped some absolute sitters today and has been pretty crap in a lot of games. Certainly not what I'd be using as an argument.

Anyhow Hawthorn's entries into the F50 were a heck of a lot better than most of ours. We need to be telling our forwards to stay in the forward line and make the defenders stay there. This is essential esp. against sides like St. Kilda who use their spare backmen to switch play.

So on the general point you believe that pinpoint delivery by the midfield to small forwards is a recipe for success in the furnace of finals?

I don't.

Things would also be better for us if Minson could hold a mark.

[BulldogBelle]

So on the general point you believe that pinpoint delivery by the midfield to small forwards is a recipe for success in the furnace of finals?

I don't.

Things would also be better for us if Minson could hold a mark.



If Will manages to hold a mark I wouldnt be sure that he could kick it through in a finals atmosphere...

[Topdog]

So on the general point you believe that pinpoint delivery by the midfield to small forwards is a recipe for success in the furnace of finals?

I don't.

Things would also be better for us if Minson could hold a mark.

If we are the team applying the relentless pressure than yes it can work. We have enough players able to take contested marks anyway.

Minson tonight let himself down and took away a few weeks of very good work by him.

[Topdog]

If Will manages to hold a mark I wouldnt be sure that he could kick it through in a finals atmosphere...

He has seemed like a pretty good kick in general. What makes you think he would crumble in finals?

[Stefcep]

-The amount of times that we blasted the ball into the F50,

As if thats something new. Its been the game plan for more games than not this season.

for mine, the important questions have been answered: 1. No this list won't win a Grand Final 2. A forward line without a tall key forward won't win a premiership. 3. We know we are not top 2 material.

[LostDoggy]

Our structure is majorly flawed, which is why i don't think we can win the flag.

[LostDoggy]

I was the idiot who made a fool out of himself at 3 qtr time with the coke promo =D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He has seemed like a pretty good kick in general. What makes you think he would crumble in finals?

Not sure about others but Minson missed quite a few in last years finals series, especially v Geelong in the PF.

Aside from that he's been fairly accurate though.

[comrade]

I was the idiot who made a fool out of himself at 3 qtr time with the coke promo =D

You never had a chance against that 'classy' lady.

[The Coon Dog]

I was the idiot who made a fool out of himself at 3 qtr time with the coke promo =D
Well done!

Silly idea voting using the crowd, she could have burped, sneezed & farted & still won because she was representing the 'home' team. They were always going to vote for her. I would have too, she was a looker! :D

[LostDoggy]

Well done!

Silly idea voting using the crowd, she could have burped, sneezed & farted & still won because she was representing the 'home' team. They were always going to vote for her. I would have too, she was a looker! :D

Haha exactly what i thought..she was sooo nice though!
so nice that after the game, she called me and offered me one of the tics to the grand final!!!!
im bouncing off the walls atm! OVER THE MOON!

[comrade]

Haha exactly what i thought..she was sooo nice though!
so nice that after the game, she called me and offered me one of the tics to the grand final!!!!
im bouncing off the walls atm! OVER THE MOON!

Could be the start of something beautiful.

At least one Bulldog supporter went home happy tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Could be the start of something beautiful.

At least one Bulldog supporter went home happy tonight.

Just hoping for a dogs v saints gf..
unlikely but d\fingers crossed!

[LostDoggy]

Higgins has done a hammy, I thought it was just the ongoing problem with his groin, and he'd further aggravated it. Doesn't look good for him for the immediate future.

I don't think Murphy has done his hammy, merely feeling tightness, which could be a pre-cursor to it going, so it will be a brave club doctor that Okay's him to come on again in the 4th quarter.
Going to be hard though for us with 3 players down.

Good work rate by our boys in the 3rd. Have given ourselves some chance if we can get on the scoreboard early in the last.


Who is the third player down?
I was at the game, but did not notice that we had three players down.

Sat in medallion club aisle 22, right behind the stkilda goals. The view was terrible, stkilda cheer squad chanting, drove me made. Left when we were down by 8 goals.

[AndrewP6]

This was, IMO, a clear indication of where we are at. Faced with the ladder-leader, we failed miserably. I honestly think we made them look excellent tonight. Yes, the Saints are playing great footy. But to gift them SO MANY goals, was pathetic. Many times, we fumbled, kicked poorly, handballed poorly, when the Saints highly-publicised pressure wasn't really there. And I still think our tackling isn't great. At times it is really good, then someone just shrugs us off. Just very disappointing across the park. I could single out some players, but I'd get sick of typing! I'll try to enjoy watching the next five weeks, as we're not going to do much damage come September.

[AndrewP6]

Heard on the radio that after Josh Hill dropped a mark late in the game, Aker tore him a new one. Involved the words "Do you want to be an A-grader? Don't be a B-grader!" Apparently Murph, on the bench, had to "console him". Will this be the rocket he needs? I'm not sure. I thought although Aker didn't trouble the scorers, his wise head at times helped enormously. Sure, like most, he made errors, but his footy smarts are there.

[Jasper]

Those bagging cooney need to have a closer look at the 2nd half, he wasn't playing well but tagged hayes after 1/2 time and did a hell of a job. Hayes was tearing us apart early but was very quiet after 1/2 time.
Also If I see another hand pass to the feet from our players I will spew up

[Stefcep]

I thought although Aker didn't trouble the scorers, his wise head at times helped enormously. Sure, like most, he made errors, but his footy smarts are there.

I was thinking a similar thing last night. Many of our players are not "intelligent" footballers in the sense that they consistently choose the wrong option when another option is there, often putting a team mate under pressure, or not knowing where to go to be an option, or not seeing the space to kick to. In contrast, for eg Schneider kicked out in front of Reiwoldt before Rewoldt had made any movement because he saw the space and basicallly made Reiwold run there. Acker, Higgins, Murphy, Boyd, Morris, Gilbee, and Cross (usually) have got football "intelligence", but that leaves another 16 that don't.

Eade I think has to share some of the blame as well. Why do we repeatedly not man up? So many free Saints time after time to relieve the pressure. I don' believe in zoning against a team like the Saints who have Gram, Goddard, Del Santo Hayes capable of running hard, and kicking long, to highly mobile player like Reiwoldt. We had to man up, but never did. Thats a tactical failing by Eade.

[Sleeve1970]

The umpire's certainly made there money after having large bets on St. Kilda... They were disgraceful.

[comrade]

Heard on the radio that after Josh Hill dropped a mark late in the game, Aker tore him a new one. Involved the words "Do you want to be an A-grader? Don't be a B-grader!" Apparently Murph, on the bench, had to "console him". Will this be the rocket he needs? I'm not sure. I thought although Aker didn't trouble the scorers, his wise head at times helped enormously. Sure, like most, he made errors, but his footy smarts are there.

Good - he's only saying what Rocket and everyone else thinks.

Hill's work rate has been pitiful for a month and Aker has every right to call him on it. Let's hope it's a catalyst for him to really take his game to the next level.

[mighty_west]

The umpire's certainly made there money after having large bets on St. Kilda... They were disgraceful.

The worst and possibly the worst EVER ump decision in the history of VFL/AFL was letting Jason Blake walk about 30 metres, from the goal posts to 15-20 from the 50 line without a bounce, this whilst we had the momentum just as the siren blew for 3/4 time.

[Scorlibo]

The worst and possibly the worst EVER ump decision in the history of VFL/AFL was letting Jason Blake walk about 30 metres, from the goal posts to 15-20 from the 50 line without a bounce, this whilst we had the momentum just as the siren blew for 3/4 time.

How about gifting Gwilt the first goal? TomaWill did everything right in that contest and still got called for in the back!

[Hot_Doggies]

In the middle of last year would you have believed those who said Ray is good enough to be in the best 22 of a side which has won 17 in a row? Before the season started would you have believed that the Saints with the essentially the same list as last year would be that side?

We lost to Gellong by 2 points and Collingwood by 1 point. Are they the other top teams you refer to? I think our system is very good and our forward line is viable, but I also believe that if Grant has a reasonable game tomorrow he should come in for Welsh.

Both those teams had us on the rack early in the second quarter and took the foot of the pedal, ST Kilda didn't.

[LostDoggy]

I had to work yesterday morning so only saw the last quarter and at the start of it we looked a chance, however the least said about that last quarter the better - we just seemed to give away too much turnover. The boys should just write it off and concentrate on making the top 4 and making sure the same mistakes aren't repeated in September.

Carn the Doggies!!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Both those teams had us on the rack early in the second quarter and took the foot of the pedal, ST Kilda didn't.

Neither took their foot off the pedal, they spent plenty of petrol tickets early and we started to outrun them.

You take your foot off the pedal when you're 84 pts up at half time and coast home to win by 88.

We were still half a chance last night until Welsh had his brain fade.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I don't want to talk about it.

[Hot_Doggies]

Neither took their foot off the pedal, they spent plenty of petrol tickets early and we started to outrun them.

You take your foot off the pedal when you're 84 pts up at half time and coast home to win by 88.

We were still half a chance last night until Welsh had his brain fade.

Fair enough.

Maybe i would of been more accurate to say we can't produce decent footy until the pressure drops.

[Mantis]

I don't want to talk about it.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

[BulldogBelle]

Neither took their foot off the pedal, they spent plenty of petrol tickets early and we started to outrun them.

You take your foot off the pedal when you're 84 pts up at half time and coast home to win by 88.

We were still half a chance last night until Welsh had his brain fade.



Your 100% right on everything here

My #1 concern is that after loosing to Geelong, St Kilda x2 and Collingwood is that by the time the late September action comes around (assuming we make the prelim this year) is that our confidence will be shot after loosing to all of these 'top' teams

It pisses me off that in all of these games we let the opposition run all over us in the first half...we arent going to get anywhere if we play from behind against quality teams

[Mofra]

It pisses me off that in all of these games we let the opposition run all over us in the first half...we arent going to get anywhere if we play from behind against quality teams
We shouldn't have allowed ourselves to get that far down, but at least we know we can fight it out if we are behind.

Unless of course we end up with only 18 fit players at the start of Q4. Our second quarter was disgraceful & our forwardline is disfunctional. When most of your goals come from midfielders the forward line has to pick up slack & chase extra hard. Hill certainly didn't, Minson was ineffective up forward, Welsh & Johnno hampered, Murph injured, Hahn battles hard but is rarely going to be a match winner.

I wonder if anyone against a 1 year deal for Hall would be rethinking their opinions based on last night's efforts. A smart forward who knows where to lead and can take a contested mark would have made a massive difference for a side that matched teh Saints for F50 entries.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Thanks for sharing that with us.
You're welcome.

[DOG GOD]

Hmm....well that was a waste of money flying to melb to see. Very disappointing indeed. I'm not sure how many times Eagle made me scream my lungs out.

It proved to me and those around me that the dogs have a long way to go before they can handle constant pressure for 4 qtrs. When i was watching the guys fumbling in that first qtr i thought "gee when saints REALLY pressure we are in trouble", and that was correct. It seemed that when we had the interchange free against us we dropped our heads and saints picked up on it.

We have a LONG way to go before the finals to turn this around...we need to BELT freo and weagles to get some confindence back, and then take that into the last 3 games against bris, geel and coll. Those last 3 games will be a tell tale of how we go in the finals, as top 4 is nowhere near sealed just yet.

[bornadog]

The stats at half time showed we were ahead in clearances, hard ball gets and even on inside 50's, so it was a matter of keeping up the intensity. We put our selves back in the game during the third quarter, however, with Higgins and Murphy going down, our rotations began to suffer as well as any creativity in the forward line. The 19 men on the ground, really hit us hard and the Saints then got up their momentum, and we were gone.

We need to now move on and try and sow up a top four as we have several teams breathing down our neck.

[Mantis]

The stats at half time showed we were ahead in clearances, hard ball gets and even on inside 50's, so it was a matter of keeping up the intensity. We put our selves back in the game during the third quarter, however, with Higgins and Murphy going down, our rotations began to suffer as well as any creativity in the forward line. The 19 men on the ground, really hit us hard and the Saints then got up their momentum, and we were gone.

We need to now move on and try and sow up a top four as we have several teams breathing down our neck.

Agree with much of that.

Personally I don't think the loss was as bad as some people have made out. We were able to match the best team in the comp for the best part of 3 quarters. The 2 early goals in the last qtr (19 on ground & Lake turn-over) took the wind out of our sails. When you consider that Riewoldt & Milne kicked a couple out of their arse and we only had 2 fit men on the bench we were always going to struggle.

We must learn quickly from this effort and after getting past our next 2 games find a way to beat teams that are as good if not better than us. Big job ahead, but I still have faith that we aren't that far away.

[Sedat]

Agree with much of that.

Personally I don't think the loss was as bad as some people have made out. We were able to match the best team in the comp for the best part of 3 quarters. The 2 early goals in the last qtr (19 on ground & Lake turn-over) took the wind out of our sails. When you consider that Riewoldt & Milne kicked a couple out of their arse and we only had 2 fit men on the bench we were always going to struggle.

We must learn quickly from this effort and after getting past our next 2 games find a way to beat teams that are as good if not better than us. Big job ahead, but I still have faith that we aren't that far away.
Agreed with all of the above, with the exception of the work of our forward line in preventing opposition rebound - this issue has reared its head consistently this season against the fellow top 4 teams and IMO is a major concern come September. And it looks no closer to being addressed than it did at the start of the season.

The media have been overly effusive in their praise of the Saints this week only because they have been so neglectful towards them all season so far. Before junk time set in they were losing both contested possessions and clearances, and allowed the ball into our forward 50 almost as much as they have against anyone all season - you could count on one finger the number of times all that has happened against the Saints this season. I'd like to think that we will not make so many glaring unforced errors to gift-wrap 12 goals on the rebound to an opponent again this season. And I'd also like to think that we can make the most of the half a dozen early clear cut chances in our forward 50 come September.

No Kosi, Dawson and Gardiner means nothing the way St Kilda plays - they work for the betterment of the jumper, no matter who is in it. That means someone like an Eddy is just as important as a Dal Santo if it means Eddy is in a better position to benefit the team in that particular passage of play.

[Mantis]

Agreed with all of the above, with the exception of the work of our forward line in preventing opposition rebound - this issue has reared its head consistently this season against the fellow top 4 teams and IMO is a major concern come September. And it looks no closer to being addressed than it did at the start of the season.


Agree with that.

The Daniel Cross article on the Dogs day board quotes him as saying that players aren't following the coaches instructions. One of the things Paul Williams was going to bring our forward line was a desire for the forwards to play for each other (our goal assists have improved) and an increased desire to apply offensive pressure. The latter point hasn't improved so I am not sure if this is due to the make up of our forward line (old & slow) or that these players just aren't doing what the coaches want them to.

We seriously need to find a small FP player who is willing to sacrifice everything else in his game such that his main job is to chase and harrass the opposition. We also need the rest of the forward line to increase their work-rate in this area because as you say you can't allow good opposing teams free rein in creating offence from defence.

[bornadog]

We seriously need to find a small FP player who is willing to sacrifice everything else in his game such that his main job is to chase and harrass the opposition. We also need the rest of the forward line to increase their work-rate in this area because as you say you can't allow good opposing teams free rein in creating offence from defence.

How about something from left field........... Lynch.


Alternative - Tim Callan in and Harbrow moves forward.

[Mofra]

We seriously need to find a small FP player who is willing to sacrifice everything else in his game such that his main job is to chase and harrass the opposition. We also need the rest of the forward line to increase their work-rate in this area because as you say you can't allow good opposing teams free rein in creating offence from defence.
He may not be as small as the others, but Stack? Sure he goes missing in games at times, but he has the agility, and if he concentrates on beating an opponent and shows once or twice a game some of that X factor he has, he could cement a spot in the line up.

[Dry Rot]

We seriously need to find a small FP player who is willing to sacrifice everything else in his game such that his main job is to chase and harrass the opposition.

We've got a ready made one already. He's proven he can harass and has been surprisingly good near the goals.

Picken.

[bornadog]

We've got a ready made one already. He's proven he can harass and has been surprisingly good near the goals.

Picken.

That is a pretty good idea.

[Go_Dogs]

We've got a ready made one already. He's proven he can harass and has been surprisingly good near the goals.

Picken.

I like this idea a lot - and if a Callan or Cross could play that lock down midfield role it certainly isn't out of the question.

Addison could also be a good option. He wasn't brilliant on the weekend, but he threw himself into a few contests and if given that sort of role, he could do well.

It's a real shame Lynch hasn't come on, watching the run down Nahas did yesterday - that sort of explosive chasing is something that we are really lacking with our old-ish forward line.

[Sedat]

That is a pretty good idea.
He has improved so much, we'll actually miss him around the ground, not to mention losing his ability to shut down a key opposition line-breaker. When he started I thought he had major limitations to his game but would at least be dedicated to the task. But he is much quicker, a much better decision maker and a much better distributor of the ball than I initially gave him credit for. He is tracking well ahead of the level of progress and development that Boyd achieved at the corresponding stage of his career, and we know how well that has turned out.

The small forward with defensive skills is a definite hole in our list - for various reasons, nobody really fills it adequately.

[Dry Rot]

I like this idea a lot - and if a Callan or Cross could play that lock down midfield role it certainly isn't out of the question.



Yep - games against Freo and WCE offer an opportunity to try Callan in that role.

[Mantis]

How about something from left field........... Lynch.

Alternative - Tim Callan in and Harbrow moves forward.

Lynch - He is only just going at VFL reserves level. In saying that Eade rates him so maybe they just have to throw him in the deep end, but really his form doesn't warrant him jumping ahead of others.

Harbrow has been too good in defence to contemplate the 2nd move.

[Mofra]

We've got a ready made one already. He's proven he can harass and has been surprisingly good near the goals.

Picken.
That is left field, but a move that really could work. He's shown if not given enough respect (even by the stars) he can hurt opponents the other way. Perfect time to reward Callan is we want to try something different, given he's played midfield in the VFL.

[LostDoggy]

How about something from left field........... Lynch.

Would absolutely love for this to happen, would be amazing.....but doubt it will....

[comrade]

Would absolutely love for this to happen, would be amazing.....but doubt it will....

You're right, it would be amazing, but only for the fact that he's done nothing to deserve it.

[Go_Dogs]

Yep - games against Freo and WCE offer an opportunity to try Callan in that role.

Agreed. Going to be interesting to see how selection goes this week - but it really is the ideal time to fiddle with a few things. I really like what Callan offers and I think his toughness will be important in finals games - so perfect time to see what he can do.

[Mantis]

Having just watched the first half again I am surprised that we were only 5 goals down at half time. I have never seen a team positioned 3rd on the ladder fumble the ball so badly. The pressure was good from St.Kilda, but not great, but our inability to handle the ball was almost embarrassing. The players need to learn that only committed efforts at the ball will be rewarded and the dinky little tap ons and handballs don't work against the good teams.

There was a lack of poise by all but a few and for large periods of the half it looked like the players had run out of ideas. The lack of effort by our forwards was poor, but they weren't helped by the sub-standard service they were supplied with.

Onto the 2nd half....

[Sedat]

Having just watched the first half again I am surprised that we were only 5 goals down at half time. I have never seen a team positioned 3rd on the ladder fumble the ball so badly. The pressure was good from St.Kilda, but not great, but our inability to handle the ball was almost embarrassing. The players need to learn that only committed efforts at the ball will be rewarded and the dinky little tap ons and handballs don't work against the good teams.
That was my feeling on the night, and that we were our own worst enemies. I also felt that we started quite well in the first 20 minutes and actually pressured St Kilda well when they were attempting to move the ball forward, but then stopped working hard enough which gave St Kilda free reign to move the ball into forward 50 with ease.

[Mantis]

That was my feeling on the night, and that we were our own worst enemies. I also felt that we started quite well in the first 20 minutes and actually pressured St Kilda well when they were attempting to move the ball forward.

Having seen as much as I want from the second half I am left scratching of how bad we butchered the ball. I read somewhere (as with our posts) that it seemed we fumbled a lot due to the 'inferred' pressure the Saints apply. And it wasn't just our young guys who fumbled and made poor decisions, it was also many of our senior players who have played in enought 'big games' and should be able to handle the situations that arise with some poise.

The amount of times we just the bombed the ball to no one in particular was amazing. I was hopeful pre-game that we would play a 'smart & clean' while still able to play at a fast tempo. The only player who for the large part of the game was able to use the ball well was Griff who on most occassions was able to pick the right option and then execute his skills with some efficiency.

Hopefully we learn from this game the areas that we need to improve in and put in place a plan to rectify these over the coming weeks and into next year.

[bornadog]

Having just watched the first half again I am surprised that we were only 5 goals down at half time. I have never seen a team positioned 3rd on the ladder fumble the ball so badly. The pressure was good from St.Kilda, but not great, but our inability to handle the ball was almost embarrassing. The players need to learn that only committed efforts at the ball will be rewarded and the dinky little tap ons and handballs don't work against the good teams.

There was a lack of poise by all but a few and for large periods of the half it looked like the players had run out of ideas. The lack of effort by our forwards was poor, but they weren't helped by the sub-standard service they were supplied with.

Onto the 2nd half....

I deleted it, couldn't bring myself to watch the fumbling and dropping of marks, the inability to even pick up the ball and the bombing into the forward line and not giving any of the forwards a chance.

[Mantis]

I deleted it, couldn't bring myself to watch the fumbling and dropping of marks, the inability to even pick up the ball and the bombing into the forward line and not giving any of the forwards a chance.

I like to watch all our games again, win or lose. I tend to miss bits & pieces so its good to go over them again.

Our forwards did receive poor service, but it would have been nice if all of them as a group had applied more pressure to the St.Kilda defence when they were in possession. I lost count the number of times I could see our forwards walking or standing still in the picture when they should have been chasing and applying pressure. I don't think this poor effort would be allowed at St.Kilda and it's one of the reasons why they are a much improved team.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure it was discussed here, how crucial was Minson's 2 missed marks in the first quarter?
I think even if he marked and kicked 1, I think the complexion of the game change would have changed.

[bornadog]

Not sure it was discussed here, how crucial was Minson's 2 missed marks in the first quarter?
I think even if he marked and kicked 1, I think the complexion of the game change would have changed.

Why does he insist on trying to take a mark with his hands in front of his head, ie hands facing the ball, instead of bringing in the mark to the chest. I am not talking about overhead marks either.

[Go_Dogs]

The only player who for the large part of the game was able to use the ball well was Griff who on most occassions was able to pick the right option and then execute his skills with some efficiency.

Watched the replay last night also (why I don't know) and certainly agree with you Mantis that Griffen was very good.

Too often in the congested situation we just got a bomb kick away that was turned over. Some poor disposals really cost us too - numerous players who should be hitting the target that didn't.