Josh Hill

[Swoop]

I think often when a player is not playing well than the natural thought is to drop them, make a statement and reward form players. While these are all valid points sometimes we need to think a little more laterally and consider other options before dropping players. No doubt these cases need to be examined on an individual basis and I don't think there should be one set rule, as different players prosper under different circumstances. The question that needs to be asked in this specific situation is, would Josh Hill benefit from being dropped?

Many people have floated the idea of demotion in order to get some form and build his confidence back up however I wanted to float another possibility and see what peoples thoughts were. I am not saying a positional change should be done or would even be a success but I was interested to know what peoples thoughts were on the idea of a move into the backline?

There's no doubt at the moment he is struggling for both form & confidence and this can be attributed to a number of reasons but perhaps he would enjoy the freedom of the backline. One of Hill's greatest assets would be his natural reading of the game and last year when he played predominantly on the wing, we would continuously see him floating across and marking opposition kicks. He possesses the ability to play short or taller and has a natural attacking flair which could be used to create run & play. The major question mark would be on his accountability of his opponent and whether his intensity would be high enough to shut down his man and not prove a liability in the backline. This year we seem to have a very settled backline with the likes of Lake, Hargrave & Morris all having consistent seasons and a settled backline would certainly make it easier for a player to slot into.

Anyway, I've thrown the question up and I would be interested to hear some opinions on what you think, good or bad.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'd hate to see him getting rag-dolled by some 70kg kid straight out of the TAC Cup.

Time for Josh to get re-aquainted with Burbank Oval.

[LostDoggy]

Playing Freo is the same as playing seconds so he will not be dropped if you can't get your confidence back against these guys then you have no chance and playing Willi is the only option

[LostDoggy]

He is completely lacking in confidence at the moment which prevents him from imposing himself on the game.

He does not represent any threat at all to the opposition whilst he is this mindset.

This affliction is not likely to be overcome with a change of position but more likely from getting a bag of kicks in the lower competition.

I believe Hill will become a good player but right now he needs a break.

[always right]

Put him on the wing and let him run. He can float down forward to take a mark. he just isn't built to play a permanent forward role atm.

[Go_Dogs]

Love your posting Swoop.

It's an interesting idea, and one that certainly has its merits - however Josh's workrate and intensity has been very questionable. I'm also unsure whether he is strong enough to play the role - he would be out-bodied too easily and his ability to stick a tackle and make it count has been disappointing because of this too.

He's been asked to play a difficult role - especially for a younger player - and it isn't too surprising that he has struggled.

I can't see him being dropped - especially with Murph and Higgo to miss, so he probably gets another opportunity this week. Most likely given the outs he'll have to play forwards again.

Big few weeks for Josh to prove he's in our finals 22.

[Mofra]

It's an interesting idea, and one that certainly has its merits - however Josh's workrate and intensity has been very questionable.
More than questionable. I'm worried that complacency has set in about his place in the team. I don't think it's necessarily confidence (the mark vs North shows his confidence levels are still high enough) but the chasing, harrassing of opponents & running hard to guard space on turnopvers just isn't there.

He will be saved by the other injuries however I'm not happy with his output over the last month.

[LostDoggy]

With West Coast and Freo over the next two weeks I would drop him back to Willi in favor of Stack

[LostDoggy]

The next two weeks, with Freo and West Coast, should be a confidence building exercise for the whole
TEAM....

Win these games with big margins, like 10 goals 60 points.

[AndrewP6]

The next two weeks, with Freo and West Coast, should be a confidence building exercise for the whole
TEAM....

Win these games with big margins, like 10 goals 60 points.

Sounds like a plan... let's hope our deplorable effort vs WC over there is not in our players minds.

[Mantis]

Play him on the wing.

We are expecting him to take contested marks in our forward line and he is being rag-dolled. He was given a fair old spray from Aker (who I am sure he respects) so let's see what the kid is made of and give him another chance.

[bulldogtragic]

Play him on the wing.

We are expecting him to take contested marks in our forward line and he is being rag-dolled. He was given a fair old spray from Aker (who I am sure he respects) so let's see what the kid is made of and give him another chance.
Couldn't agree more. Because his dukes are so good the belief has been to play him forward, and i don't think it has been a success. He is 100% in kicking for goals on the run and his endurance by reports his great. Put him back to the position where he has had great success and had some spark to the centre of the ground and an attacking option too.

[DOG GOD]

Id play him on the wing and just tell him to RUN RUN RUN!!! He needs to get his hands on the ball. Playing him as a key fwd is silly. When he had his purple patch last year he played more wing /hf. Get back to basics and dont screw with his development.

[Studentlib]

I agree! play him on the wing in lieu of Eagleton. Tell him to play as a link up player and Run, chase, tackle, offer an option, deliver, goal, be attacking. He might get fired up playing against W.A. clubs.
It was interesting to listen to Stan Alves on Bulldogs last Sunday. He reckons our only chance this year is to go all out attack ala Geelong in the 90s. We can't beat the top teams playing anything other than all out attack and playing to our strengths.
If that is the case we can't keep going into games carrying players eg. Hill and Eagleton. So move hill to wing and drop eagle. Hill can probably do more up the ground than he has in the FP and still kick a couple. Try Everitt in forward line over next two weeks.

[craigsahibee]

I don't think he will be dropped now that Welsh, Murphy and Higgins are out.

[bornadog]

I don't think he will be dropped now that Welsh, Murphy and Higgins are out.

I think he and Eagleton are very lucky there are injuries this week

[G-Mo77]

Well he survived another week. Time to step up Josh!

[BulldogBelle]

Well he survived another week. Time to step up Josh!


Hoping Aker's comment, and the 360 degree feedback from the coaching staff, players and fans will help his realise his faults

I'd be interested to see him run around like a headless chook ala Harbrow prior to this year and see what he does

[1eyedog]

I think he and Eagleton are very lucky there are injuries this week

I don't think it matters with this one, seems Eagleton is the Golden Goose.

[Dry Rot]

Thoughts on his game tonight?

[LostDoggy]

Good enough. Wasn't outstanding.

[DOG GOD]

Josh looks more dangerous when we are kicking it OVER the defenders head and letting him run on it. The one on one duels when he's infront still worry me.

[LostDoggy]

Josh looks more dangerous when we are kicking it OVER the defenders head and letting him run on it.

I thought we did that really well tonight. Wasn't just to Josh Hill. As one of the commentators said though the players lose penetration in their kicking as the game goes on, so the forwards playing behind the defenders could only be effective in the first half. Brad Johnson's the master of this (at the receiving end)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Good enough. Wasn't outstanding.

I thought he showed some good poise tonight, the mark he took on the boundary in the last was definitely out, but he manouvred his body in such a way as to make it hard for the ump to call him out. Then kicks to Boyd who slots it to put us back in front I think.
3 Goals and two goal assists, and good hassling in the forward 50.
Yep a good performance.

[NoName]

I thought he played pretty well tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Looks much better running around and leading to the ball or with the ball in his hands on the wing instead of being monstered in the forward 50. Then his occassional forays forward actually bear fruit as he is usually faster than his opponent.

[Happy Days]

Was impressed with his game tonight, was a contributor, and stood up at improtant times. His hands seem to have lost a bit of stickiness to them though.

[GVGjr]

When he plays in his more natural position as a winger we will see an even better footballer. At the moment I think he is doing a very good job given he is being played out of position.

[AndrewP6]

Thought Hill was good tonight...

[Throughandthrough]

I thought he was excellent, has been for a few weeks now.

[Rocco Jones]

When he plays in his more natural position as a winger we will see an even better footballer. At the moment I think he is doing a very good job given he is being played out of position.

Exactly.

I have criticised Hill a fair bit during his short career but one thing I won't have a go at him is his shortcomings when it comes to playing as a deep forward. It isn't his natural position and he is punching well above his weight most of the time there. He could become anything as a wing/HF type. I was very pleased with his performance tonight.

[comrade]

I thought he was used well tonight, leading high up the ground then using his speed/tank to burn off his opponent and take marks on the overlap.

It's not far away from clicking with Josh, I feel, and with a big pre-season and some added bulk we could be in for some exciting times next year.

[Rocco Jones]

I thought he was used well tonight, leading high up the ground then using his speed/tank to burn off his opponent and take marks on the overlap.


Yep, Eade & co. were fantastic with their use of Hill tonight. Worked well with Johnno a couple of times.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought he was very good and worked very hard tonight. Just needs a bit more size so he's not knocked off the ball so easily.

[Mantis]

Much improved performances over the last 3 or 4 weeks. Going back to the St.Kilda game he copped a spray from Aker (a guy he obviously admires & resepcts) and he has turned the corner in terms of his effort & application.

Still gets knocked off the ball, but with a bit more strength he is going to develop into a very good player.

[Dazza]

Gee he'd be great delivering into the f50. Some of his assists in the past few games have been great.

[ledge]

Josh is now past the "will he or wont he get a game player" he is now established as a senior player who will get picked every week.

[Mofra]

Very good game. 3 goals, a couple of assists, ~20 touches and he ran to make tackles & harrass the opposition backmen. Can't really ask for too much more.

[LostDoggy]

When he plays in his more natural position as a winger we will see an even better footballer. At the moment I think he is doing a very good job given he is being played out of position.

Yep, my thoughts as well. I see him as a free running winger, in the elk of Robbie Flower.:o Yeah, I know I'm old!

[LostDoggy]

Peoples thoughts on his game tonight?

13 disposals, 3 marks, 2 goals & 10 tackles.

[Hotdog60]

My Thoughts aren't that good, I still think he shirks the issue when it's needed. At one stage in the game he needed to put his head over the ball and didn't and he is to easily pushed aside. I'd be surprised if he gets a game next week.

[chef]

Peoples thoughts on his game tonight?

13 disposals, 3 marks, 2 goals & 10 tackles.

His stats are better than I thought they would be.

But he doesn't go in hard often enough or put his head over the ball often enough ATM. Fix this part of his game and he'll be alright.

[KT31]

His stats are better than I thought they would be.

Would like to know how many hard ball gets.
Agree with Hotdog60, he takes his eye off the ball and lifts his head.

[bulldogsman]

Too many times he gets pushed out of the contest and it's an easy ball to Melbourne. Like other posters have said needs to harden up.

[angelopetraglia]

My Thoughts aren't that good, I still think he shirks the issue when it's needed. At one stage in the game he needed to put his head over the ball and didn't and he is to easily pushed aside. I'd be surprised if he gets a game next week.

And to make this worse it was Trengrove a first year player.

[anfo27]

And to make this worse it was Trengrove a first year player.

I was filthy with that effort, to get pushed aside by a kid playing his 7th game just typfies his hardness. Does some great things but then lets himself and the team down with soft efforts.

[AndrewP6]

Peoples thoughts on his game tonight?

13 disposals, 3 marks, 2 goals & 10 tackles.

Sorry to be a broken record, but I concur that he doesn't go hard enough often enough...

[Doc26]

Josh is so very frustrating, he offers us much and yet equally offers so little. I'm not out of favour with him and would still prefer to persevere with Josh for now in place of a slow and weary looking Mitch but he must learn to impose himself into a contest otherwise his days will be over before he knows it.

[Lurgan]

Interesting to see him playing more up the ground, as he did with Williamstown last week. I think he tries to do the fantastic little 'touch' things too much, when sometimes just a push of the ball ahead of himself is best, or a basic handball to a teammate. And he's caught too often in no man's land when a defensive attitude is required.

I know some were critical of Mitch Hahn's game tonight, but I thought his chasing and tackling in the forward line was great. Although Josh doesn't have the same body, and he's still a young player, he could watch the video of Mitch tonight.

[Desipura]

I know some were critical of Mitch Hahn's game tonight, but I thought his chasing and tackling in the forward line was great. Although Josh doesn't have the same body, and he's still a young player, he could watch the video of Mitch tonight.
Im of the opposite view on Mitch, I thought his lack of pace and skill stood out in the wet conditions. I did not see many kicks of his go to our advantage. I query how much longer he can carry his body playing AFL. A number of times he was lead to the ball in a 50/50 contest.
If he has an injury I am unaware of, that would explain a bit.

[ReLoad]

10 Tackles, thats a superbe ffort in any game, Yes he did some things that made us drop our four n twenty pie in disgust, but he also did a lot of things a player of his "type" didnt do, thats tackle.

Lets be honest he isnt a mitch Hahn, he's not a power forward, he just isnt the physical type of player, but then neither have a lot of champions, look at michael long, he wasnt physical yet was capable of turnign a game on its head.

I firmly believe Josh has this ability, but in a game when it rained non stop for 3.5 quarters, it just isnt going to suit him.

Josh's game tonight was a very passable 8. lets be honest his two goals were critical in the end.

[Go_Dogs]

I think Hill played alright and should retain his spot.

I know he can be a frustrating player to watch, but he always contributes on the scoreboard, and his offensive work is generally good - had an assist too. The fact that he was credited with 10 tackles really underlines his work rate for the night which is also pleasing.

FWIW, half his possessions were also credited as contested last night (obviously it was a night with a lot more contested ball generally, given the conditions) but I think he was generally alright. He's never going to be Pickett, but I'm reasonably satisfied with what Josh is offering at the moment (obviously it would be better if he could continue to improve in the areas mentioned above).

[azabob]

10 , Yes he did some things that made us drop our four n twenty pie in disgust,

.

Surely the taste alone is enough to make you drop your pie?

[Stefcep]

Play him on the wing.

[Hotdog60]

His not a body player so he needs to be creative, he needs to get into space and provide a mobile target. Would suggesting an Andrew McLeod type of player be out of the question.

[Ghost Dog]

It's a team game and there are different body types to suit different conditions.
The wet suited smaller players with a lower center of gravity and ability / height to scoop the ball off the deck. Hill is a bit laconic, but there were / are many great players like this.
Bulldogs have faith in him, and Eade himself said it's not about the stats. He would only have to go in ust a little harder to make him a much better all round player.

[Jasper]

Hill may have laid 10 tackles, but I saw a couple of times where he waited for the opposition to take the ball and then a laid a tackle.

Of concern is that if the ball is on the deck and he has front position, I would still back anyone he is playing on in the AFL (and probably the VFL) to beat Josh for the ball. Pure and simple his ground contested ball work is very poor, whether its desire, strength, centre of gravity, but this facet of his game appears to be his biggest problem.

[Scorlibo]

Will Josh become trade bait at the end of this year? I haven't seen any improvement from 2008 to now. He teases but rarely puts in enough to be considered anything other than just a cruiser. He seems to get a fair wrap with the commentators/the media. Perhaps he would have some value at the trade table?

[LostDoggy]

Probably a good idea for Josh Hill supporters to listen to Rockets post game interview.

He said Josh was very lucky to get a game tonight and if he was a fringe or rookie player he would have been dropped to Willi seconds. He added that they have faith in him but he has a few things that he needs to work on with his game.

He was happy with his workrate tonight.

[LostDoggy]

Bend below the knees Josh, please.

[always right]

Bend below the knees Josh, please.

He'd need another knee on his shin.

[chef]

Is Josh contracted for next season?

[LostDoggy]

Is Josh contracted for next season?

I hope so, i think this guy has real upside. I would be disappointed if he left the club, he could be anything.

He is 3rd on our goal kicking list this season (around about there), and has only played half the year. A little tweaking to his game & he could be a force, i am willing to persist with him.

[Mofra]

A question on Hill next year - if Hooper becomes the small forward we hope and starts playing regular football, will this help or change Hill's game?

Hooper seems smart, quick and strong for his size, but gets by on football brain rather than X factor. Hill's forte is his marking ability rather than any crumbing aspect which we probably expected too much of this year. It will be interesting to see how we use Hill in 2011.

[stefoid]

With Hills marking, generally good disposal and theoretical endurance, he could be useful across half forward, whereas youd think Hooper would be marked for a pocket role?

[mighty_west]

I think Hill and Hooper are two completely different types of players, as already mentioned, Hill is more of a marking forward, i see Hooper being that small forward slash midfielder, which i believe is that perfect small forward option, rather than that stay at home can get stale and fall into bad habits type who tend to go missing in finals.

[Mofra]

With Hills marking, generally good disposal and theoretical endurance, he could be useful across half forward, whereas youd think Hooper would be marked for a pocket role?
Yep - Hooper has great acceleration (2.9sec for 20m) but not top lien pace, and finds space in the tiniest of openings. Hill's VO2 Max tests means he can be wasted in a pocket, and I think Hill's leap is more of a forte than his crumbing skills. He is one guy that really needs to play to his strengths and his leap is just that.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yep - Hooper has great acceleration (2.9sec for 20m) but not top lien pace, and finds space in the tiniest of openings. Hill's VO2 Max tests means he can be wasted in a pocket, and I think Hill's leap is more of a forte than his crumbing skills. He is one guy that really needs to play to his strengths and his leap is just that.

This is a strong argument for why he should be trained for the wing again. That's where he made his impact. Since we've tried to play him as an exclusive forward, he's gone backwards.

At his best, Hill plays on the wing and then pushes into the forward half to leap across packs and 'steal' marks. He isn't a leading forward, nor is he a one on one forward. He floats across packs and the best way to achieve this is by burning off his opponent with his VO2.

Yes - I know he's been put on the wing at times during the year, but he needs to be told that's his position and work hard over the pre-season to cement it.

[soupman]

This is a strong argument for why he should be trained for the wing again. That's where he made his impact. Since we've tried to play him as an exclusive forward, he's gone backwards.

At his best, Hill plays on the wing and then pushes into the forward half to leap across packs and 'steal' marks. He isn't a leading forward, nor is he a one on one forward. He floats across packs and the best way to achieve this is by burning off his opponent with his VO2.

Yes - I know he's been put on the wing at times during the year, but he needs to be told that's his position and work hard over the pre-season to cement it.

This.

I know Dog God and myself are both fans of playing Hill off a wing, and I am still confused as to why it has been almost completely ignored as an option by the coaching staff.

[AndrewP6]

This.

I know Dog God and myself are both fans of playing Hill off a wing, and I am still confused as to why it has been almost completely ignored as an option by the coaching staff.

They don't read WOOF ;)

[ratsmac]

This.

I know Dog God and myself are both fans of playing Hill off a wing, and I am still confused as to why it has been almost completely ignored as an option by the coaching staff.

I've always considered Hill as a wingman. He burst onto the scene on the wing taking big marks. We threw him forward for necessity and he has been stuck there ever since. He has had little spurts back on the wing but seems like his lost his confidence in that position. I say leave him there and he'll blossom. He actually reminds me of Adam Goodes with his big leap, if only he could follow in the footsteps. I would like to see him play on Saturday night against the swans.

[stefoid]

In the 80s maybe... Wing these days has to be useful around the stoppages. Is Hill useful around stoppages?

[G-Mo77]

In the 80s maybe... Wing these days has to be useful around the stoppages. Is Hill useful around stoppages?

No.

Well at least not at this stage of his career. Hopefully it's an area he improves on should we hold onto him.

[Mofra]

In the 80s maybe... Wing these days has to be useful around the stoppages. Is Hill useful around stoppages?
I think he's not far away - he has clean hands which are required as an outside player.
I think as far as the midfield goes, we arguably have an imbalance of inside mids and not enough quality users of the ball - Boyd, Cross, Ward, Reid & Libba will all be inside mids and could pushing for selection at the same time next year. Cooney & Griff get their own ball, Higgins developing that way (and he's not quick), Picken is tough as nails and accountable, so an outside gut-runner would be very useful. I think this is part of the reason that Gilbee has been pushed up to the wing at times.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think he's not far away - he has clean hands which are required as an outside player.
I think as far as the midfield goes, we arguably have an imbalance of inside mids and not enough quality users of the ball - Boyd, Cross, Ward, Reid & Libba will all be inside mids and could pushing for selection at the same time next year. Cooney & Griff get their own ball, Higgins developing that way (and he's not quick), Picken is tough as nails and accountable, so an outside gut-runner would be very useful. I think this is part of the reason that Gilbee has been pushed up to the wing at times.

Hill is hardly a quality user of the ball.

[Ozza]

I would like to see some serious time put into Hill as a winger. Especially with Eagleton (presumably) gone at season's end. Watching some of Johnno's 300th - although its just one game - its clear Hill has the attributes. Whether he has the mindset is another story - but he is far more suited to a wing.

[LostDoggy]

Probably wont be there next year. will be traded or want a trade imo

[Sockeye Salmon]

Probably wont be there next year. will be traded or want a trade imo

I am staggered at the amount of love Hill gets. He has some skill, certainly but 1 decent mark and two goals out the back a game is simply not enough.

I absolutely hate trading but I would let Josh know that opportunities will be limited and he should get his manager to check out if other teams can offer him a regular game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I am staggered at the amount of love Hill gets. He has some skill, certainly but 1 decent mark and two goals out the back a game is simply not enough.

I absolutely hate trading but I would let Josh know that opportunities will be limited and he should get his manager to check out if other teams can offer him a regular game.

This season, yes.

But you've never rated him SS.

We've got far worse players than Hill.

[Sockeye Salmon]

This season, yes.

But you've never rated him SS.

We've got far worse players than Hill.

True, I haven't.

Early on I made the call that Josh was the new Pat Bowden. I stand by it.

[Rocco Jones]

I am staggered at the amount of love Hill gets. He has some skill, certainly but 1 decent mark and two goals out the back a game is simply not enough.


I know you're having a go at him (a fair one too) but the picture you are painting still beats our 22nd best player at the moment.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I know you're having a go at him (a fair one too) but the picture you are painting still beats our 22nd best player at the moment.

I would still have Hill behind Moles and Jones

[LostDoggy]

I would still have Hill behind Moles and Jones

Have you forgot the Stkilda game a year or two back? He has it just forgets how to use it.

[LostDoggy]

They don't read WOOF ;)

I know of at least 2 who have a peek now and then. ;)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Have you forgot the Stkilda game a year or two back? He has it just forgets how to use it.

Have you forgotten Patty's 4 goals against Melbourne?

Or Patrick Wiggins 3 against Melbourne in 2003?


How long can Hill live on Nick Del Santo simply ignoring him completely?

[LostDoggy]

Can we turn this guy around. Was best 22 last year. I heard he went home in the off season came back fat and with a poor attitude. Can we turn him back into a focussed player or should he be traded to WC for a first round pick?

[LostDoggy]

Can we turn this guy around. Was best 22 last year. I heard he went home in the off season came back fat and with a poor attitude. Can we turn him back into a focussed player or should he be traded to WC for a first round pick?

I doubt he'd be worth a first rounder.

[DOG GOD]

If we can get a 1st round pick i would take that, UNLESS the MC play him on the wing and let him run and carry the ball like he did in his debut year. If they do that then keep him.

If they want to keep persisiting with him as a permanent marking fwd, then WC it is.

[GVGjr]

Can we turn this guy around. Was best 22 last year. I heard he went home in the off season came back fat and with a poor attitude. Can we turn him back into a focussed player or should he be traded to WC for a first round pick?

I think Eade has flagged that guys without the right intensity will struggle to get a regular game and despite his talents, Hill would need to improve a lot in this area.

I'd rather keep him but not as a depth player. Would need a good offer to let him go.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If we can get a 1st round pick i would take that, UNLESS the MC play him on the wing and let him run and carry the ball like he did in his debut year. If they do that then keep him.

If they want to keep persisiting with him as a permanent marking fwd, then WC it is.

There would be no "unless" about anything.

If we got a first rounder for Hill it would mean we had pictures of someone doing a Fev to a goat. Not going to happen.

[LostDoggy]

I doubt he'd be worth a first rounder.

With the right attitude would easily be in our best 22. Hence he is definately worth a first round pick. Another coach like a Paul Roos could get the best out of this guy and his best is very good.

[LostDoggy]

I think Eade has flagged that guys without the right intensity will struggle to get a regular game and despite his talents, Hill would need to improve a lot in this area.

I'd rather keep him but not as a depth player. Would need a good offer to let him go.
Thats a shame as the upside of these guys given the right ecouragement is high. I thought Everrit for example picked up his intensity earlier in the year before being injured. But after being looked over week in week out he dropped his head bit. I guess what I am saying is one size does not fit all unfortunately Eade seems to tackle all players the same and does not or will not look at different ways to stimulate players. This is only an outside view of course.

[soupman]

With the right attitude would easily be in our best 22. Hence he is definately worth a first round pick. Another coach like a Paul Roos could get the best out of this guy and his best is very good.

Sorry, but thats bullshit.

Nobody is going to give up a first round pick because "if his attitude is right he would easily be in our best 22". First round picks are only traded for dead set guns and players on the verge of being dead set guns. Ocassionally towards the end of the first round there may be someone like a Cam Wood, but these are the exceptions.

Hill clearly has a lot of talent and potential, but I think we'll end up with a round 2 selection at best. And i mean this years 30-50 round 2 and not the standard 19-32. Based on his poor form this year, his evident poor attitude and the fact he isn't in our best 22 we can't ask for too much.

[Desipura]

With the right attitude would easily be in our best 22. Hence he is definately worth a first round pick. Another coach like a Paul Roos could get the best out of this guy and his best is very good.
100%................disagree. Would never ever ever be a 1st round pick.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If we are talking to WC for a player swap and we know Sprangher, McGinley and Rosa want out, I'd take Rosa for Hill.

Would we give up a first rounder for Rosa? Not in a million years.

[LostDoggy]

First round picks are only traded for dead set guns and players on the verge of being dead set guns.

Like Lovett? Like Mark Williams? Like Jordy McMahon? Like Brock McLean? Like JADE FREAKING RAWLINGS? CAMPBELL FARKING BROWN?

It's a market. People pay what they have for what they want. It's a matter of whether anyone wants the guy, and if they are willing to part with what the seller is looking for.

Having said all that, Josh isn't going to attract a first rounder in a compromised draft -- can't see a club that is clearly lacking a player of his type being close enough to the flag to want to pay over the odds.

[soupman]

Like Lovett? Like Mark Williams? Like Jordy McMahon? Like Brock McLean? Like JADE FREAKING RAWLINGS? CAMPBELL FARKING BROWN?


Lovett: Has shown numerous times that he can tear a game apart, even with a poor attitude. St.Kilda believed his attitude was going to improve, and it was a late first rounder at that.

Mark Williams: Essendon gave up 16, Nash and 42 for Williams, 24 and 33. Wasn't exactly Williams for a first rounder. Stupid trade regardless.

Jordan McMahon: Proven best 22 player that was something Richmond decided they needed. Was technically a second round pick, and Terry Wallace paid over the odds for him regardless.

Brock McLean: Pick 11 for him is over the odds. He was however a clear best 22 player for Melbourne, and Carlton saw him as being a key component of their side.

Jade Rawlings: KPP aren't cheap, we know that. Rawlings was going to be a superstar, and the club had to move heaven and earth to get him.

Campbell Brown: This was worked out on salary and B&F finishes, not market value.

Maybe none of the above are, were or were about to be dead set guns, but they were all rated very highly by the clubs they were going to and with the exception of Rawlings none attracted a high pick. Compare Josh Hill to any of the above at that time. Josh Hill is a player with huge question marks over his application, endeavour and ability to be good for longer than a quarter. He hasn't proved any of these wrong for more than a handful of games over 3 seasons, and this season he has fallen out of our best 22, even when we have had numerous injuries and he has offered us pace and an outside player, two areas we are lacking in.

[Mofra]

Like Lovett? Like Mark Williams? Like Jordy McMahon? Like Brock McLean? Like JADE FREAKING RAWLINGS? CAMPBELL FARKING BROWN?

It's a market. People pay what they have for what they want. It's a matter of whether anyone wants the guy, and if they are willing to part with what the seller is looking for.
Josh Hill isn't in the same ballpark as those guys. All of them were in the best 22 of the club they left, with the only query being on Jordy (who was traded for an early 2nd rounder anyway).

[LostDoggy]

Josh Hill isn't in the same ballpark as those guys. All of them were in the best 22 of the club they left, with the only query being on Jordy (who was traded for an early 2nd rounder anyway).

Thus the rest of my post.

The notion that clubs only pay what makes sense, or that 1st rounders are only given up for bona-fide guns isn't true, which was the only point I was challenging.

[LostDoggy]

Compare Josh Hill to any of the above at that time. Josh Hill is a player with huge question marks over his application, endeavour and ability to be good for longer than a quarter. He hasn't proved any of these wrong for more than a handful of games over 3 seasons, and this season he has fallen out of our best 22, even when we have had numerous injuries and he has offered us pace and an outside player, two areas we are lacking in.

Agreed, thus the rest of my post.

[Mofra]

Thus the rest of my post.

The notion that clubs only pay what makes sense, or that 1st rounders are only given up for bona-fide guns isn't true, which was the only point I was challenging.
I wasn't disagreeing with you.

It's natural that fans tend to overrate their own players though - some slightly like the Bulldogs, some like the perenial "our fringe is worth 10 first round picks" Pies.