It's hatred with Tigers and Dogs

[southerncross]

Is it really hatred?

It's hatred with Tigers and Dogs
(http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21587658%255E20322,00.html)
RICHMOND and the Western Bulldogs will head into tonight's clash at the MCG with hate in their hearts, according to former Tigers coach Danny Frawley.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5454232,00.jpg Pipedream reality: 23-year-old Plumber Jake King will finally make his debut for Richmond in tonight's match against Western Bulldogs at the MCG.
Frawley, who was a central figure in the infamous 2001 encounter at the MCG, said it was comical to listen to the two clubs try to pretend that the undisguised antagonism between them would not be factor in the match.
"I laughed during the week when (Richmond president) Gary March said, 'We'll bury the hatchet and put it behind us'," Frawley said.
"I can tell you now from being involved in that match in 2001, while they might say it's no more than four points to the winner and none to the loser, the win will feel like a mini-final and the loss like a dagger to the heart."
Frawley said the fallout from the 2001 Round 2 match had been the catalyst for a modern-day rivalry to match any in the game. The feeling has been inflamed by the defection of two high-profile Bulldogs to Punt Rd: coach Terry Wallace and gun forward Nathan Brown.
"I've got no doubt there is hatred there, hatred as far as footy goes," Frawley said. "I don't think either coach will have to motivate the players too much."
The whole thing began when Richmond star midfielder Matthew Knights was felled by a blow from Bulldogs tagger Tony Liberatore well off the ball in the first minute of play in that 2001 match.
Knights left the ground with blood streaming from a cut above the eye that needed seven stitches.
It might have ended when Liberatore was suspended for five matches after an AFL investigation, but inflammatory remarks from various protagonists, including Frawley and the two club presidents, kept fuel on the fire for a long time.
Now the opening of an old wound on the eve of the match has ensured the 2001 match will not be forgotten in a hurry.
It came courtesy of former Bulldog Paul Dimattina, who said he was convinced ex-Richmond captain Wayne Campbell had not told the truth to the tribunal that suspended Liberatore.
Campbell famously broke the players' code of silence, testifying that he had seen Liberatore hit Knights.
"I'm pretty sure all Wayne Campbell saw was the aftermath. I don't think anyone really saw what happened," Dimattina said.
Frawley might be out of coaching these days but his strong response to this charge this week left no doubt about the impact the match had on the participants.
"That's crap. Wayne didn't make it up. I think Wayne was unfairly treated in the whole scenario. He saw what happened. I know he did the right thing," Frawley said.
Just to add more spice to tonight's match, Campbell is now an assistant coach at the Bulldogs. However, as with Knights and Liberatore, he declined to comment.
If there was any chance the heat in this rivalry was dissipating, especially as both teams have been pre-occupied with stuttering starts to the 2007 season, it evaporated recently when Bulldogs president David Smorgon said his club was much better off without Brown and that Wallace should stop writing newspaper articles about the Dogs.
His counterpart March responded as expected, telling Smorgon to worry about his own club, which hadn't won a flag for over 50 years and hadn't made a profit for almost as long. Both presidents have since kissed and made up but no one is fooled.
"Gary March tried to defuse it during the week but I'm tipping come Friday morning when all parties from both clubs wake up, they'll be thinking this is one game they desperately want to win," Frawley said.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Not sure if its hatred, theres no love lost clearly, but its certainly a desperation to beat them from my perspective, and it just has to happen tonight

[Go_Dogs]

Oh, it's hate....

[Raw Toast]

The tigers fans I know don't hate us, but I sure do hate the tiges.

[Twodogs]

It's hatred from my POV. Dont really care about Richmonds POV.

[bornadog]

It's hatred from my POV. Dont really care about Richmonds POV.

Agree, I can't stand the whole club. Lets do what we did to them round 0ne last year, that was one of my favourite days at the footy.

[alwaysadog]

Agree, I can't stand the whole club. Lets do what we did to them round 0ne last year, that was one of my favourite days at the footy.

I was there but I have to convince myself it just wasn't a dream. As far as hate goes I feel a bit patronising, but I won't dwell on that till after the game.

[GVGjr]

I don't like them but hate is too strong of a word for me. I hope our supporter do not turn on the club, coach and players like theirs seem to do after a few losses.

[Dry Rot]

I was there but I have to convince myself it just wasn't a dream. As far as hate goes I feel a bit patronising, but I won't dwell on that till after the game.

What about the C word?










CONTEMPT!

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't like them but hate is too strong of a word for me. I hope our supporter do not turn on the club, coach and players like theirs seem to do after a few losses.

One of the signs of great clubs IMO is that they do not bag their own. Our supporters think they are being tough by sinking the boots in, and that it shows that they wont accept mediocrity, and that we have for far too long (how often does the media trot this rubbish out about us). And so the new Bulldog supporter thinks he should sink the boots in and not put up with the mediocrity.

I am not saying we should be as hysterical as the Crows, but I dont think I've ever heard their supporters sinking the boots into guys that represent the club, yes they gave Ayresy hell, or a bit, but what did he expect with that hair.

Anyhow I think we have a way to go to be truly elite supporters - we on the other side of the fence too easily forget that we dont know what players are asked to do i.e a role and coaching instructions, and we dont know what conditions they are playing under i.e broken hand, osteitis pubis etc and yet WE are quick to judge. And our supporters pick targets like KMac, who gave it everything they have, or Eagle who clearly has a role in the team, does a lot of good things and is probably told to take everyone on, dont worry if you get caught, and kick it long to the forward line. And yet all we ever hear is that he doesn't have a right foot etc - well he's a great kick on his left foot so I'd prefer and I suspect the coaching staff would prefer he use it.

Sorry if I ranted here, but I do get wound up about some of the issues here - and I no longer bother posting something like this on BF because too many of them want to show how great they are and sink the boots in

[Go_Dogs]

And our supporters pick targets like KMac,

He's playing well for Norwood this year in the SANFL.

[firstdogonthemoon]

One of the signs of great clubs IMO is that they do not bag their own. Our supporters think they are being tough by sinking the boots in, and that it shows that they wont accept mediocrity, and that we have for far too long (how often does the media trot this rubbish out about us). And so the new Bulldog supporter thinks he should sink the boots in and not put up with the mediocrity.

I am not saying we should be as hysterical as the Crows, but I dont think I've ever heard their supporters sinking the boots into guys that represent the club, yes they gave Ayresy hell, or a bit, but what did he expect with that hair.

Anyhow I think we have a way to go to be truly elite supporters - we on the other side of the fence too easily forget that we dont know what players are asked to do i.e a role and coaching instructions, and we dont know what conditions they are playing under i.e broken hand, osteitis pubis etc and yet WE are quick to judge. And our supporters pick targets like KMac, who gave it everything they have, or Eagle who clearly has a role in the team, does a lot of good things and is probably told to take everyone on, dont worry if you get caught, and kick it long to the forward line. And yet all we ever hear is that he doesn't have a right foot etc - well he's a great kick on his left foot so I'd prefer and I suspect the coaching staff would prefer he use it.

Sorry if I ranted here, but I do get wound up about some of the issues here - and I no longer bother posting something like this on BF because too many of them want to show how great they are and sink the boots in

This is a great post. I know I have allowed myself at times to articulate my concerns about the club in a negative fashion. By I agree with everything you have said.

I will be pulling my head in in future.

[alwaysadog]

One of the signs of great clubs IMO is that they do not bag their own. Our supporters think they are being tough by sinking the boots in, and that it shows that they wont accept mediocrity, and that we have for far too long (how often does the media trot this rubbish out about us). And so the new Bulldog supporter thinks he should sink the boots in and not put up with the mediocrity.

I am not saying we should be as hysterical as the Crows, but I dont think I've ever heard their supporters sinking the boots into guys that represent the club, yes they gave Ayresy hell, or a bit, but what did he expect with that hair.

Anyhow I think we have a way to go to be truly elite supporters - we on the other side of the fence too easily forget that we dont know what players are asked to do i.e a role and coaching instructions, and we dont know what conditions they are playing under i.e broken hand, osteitis pubis etc and yet WE are quick to judge. And our supporters pick targets like KMac, who gave it everything they have, or Eagle who clearly has a role in the team, does a lot of good things and is probably told to take everyone on, dont worry if you get caught, and kick it long to the forward line. And yet all we ever hear is that he doesn't have a right foot etc - well he's a great kick on his left foot so I'd prefer and I suspect the coaching staff would prefer he use it.

Sorry if I ranted here, but I do get wound up about some of the issues here - and I no longer bother posting something like this on BF because too many of them want to show how great they are and sink the boots in


Not a rant at all. You are spot on. In fact if you have time I think it is a great subject for a Blog.
In fact it could be a collaborative Blog in which selected people are asked to express what being a Bulldog means to them.

Here's my angle on it. Irene Chatfield when asked what the Bulldogs meant to her said something about them "being ours"; that's what was wonderful about the old Footscray; it's us battlers against the hostile uncaring world, and we love and support our own. There existed both a pride and a protective dimension to it. Without both there is no such thing as a supporter.

To supporters of most clubs the pride in their players recognises that they are human they have faults but they go into battle for us, and they'll be better, and play better if we are at their side unquestioningly each step of the way; so they become our contemporary versions of the champions that every ancient army had.

When I worked in London some years ago I used to go to watch my local team. It happened to be Chelsea, many years before the Russian billionaire took over the club. I loved the way that the supporters used to greet each of the players as they came on to the pitch. They had a brief song for each player and it told them each was the crowd's hero. Then there is nothing more moving than to be part of a soccer crowd when they're singing "You'll never walk alone".

No matter how badly it is sung, not only didthe hair stand up on myneck and tears form in myeyes but it's a moment I will never forget. Because it talked not only of community but of unqualified love and support for the club, the team and the players. This is something completely different to the Crows supporters excesses; it's something more noble and inclusive, one is driven by insecurity the other is driven by love.

Terry Wheeler, one of the coaches who best understood and tried to enunciate both the sense of community that football clubs represent and the fact that a palyer needed to help manage his mistakes on the field and those of his team mates. When he talked about being at their shoulder throughout the game he was talking in terms of a family. What he sought to create was a band of brothers. We as supporters are the extended family. That's the tradition of great clubs. They go into battle for us and they're ours; how could we not be with them?

[alwaysadog]

He's playing well for Norwood this year in the SANFL.

Like me Macca this probably comes as no surprise. While some scoffed and a few scorned, he always gave all he had. The difference between being an AFL player and an also ran is often very small.

KMac gave his all; I always supported his effort, as did his mates who are amongst the most hard working and respected players at the club. The drop in standard will allow him to blossom.

[southerncross]

Do the coaches have a bit of an issues with each other?

Eade, Wallace 'good friends'
22 April 2007 Sunday Herald Sun
Jon Ralph and Jackie Epstein
BULLDOGS coach Rodney Eade yesterday diffused talk of a personal rivalry between himself and Richmond coach Terry Wallace.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5456037,00.jpg Feud?: Western Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade rejects there is a simmering and intense rivarly between hime Terry Wallace.
Wallace and Eade are at the centre of a feud between the Dogs and Tigers that dates back to the 2001 controversy surrounding Tony Liberatore felling Matthew Knights behind play. Eade said that while the rivalry had been played up, he and Wallace remain good friends.
"People would say there is a rivalry between Terry and I, but Terry and I got on pretty well when we were playing," Eade said.
"My dad passed away a couple of weeks ago and he phoned me up, just like when his dad passed away I spoke to him. I think there is rivalry as far as having played together, but we were pretty good teammates."
He believed the rivalry was more about the two clubs and the 2001 incident, which had been "overplayed".
While Eade said on SEN he never instructed his players to use personal sledges, they had been told to use words as weapons.
He offered the example of Magpie Brodie Holland's clash with Bulldog Brett Montgomery in last year's elimination final.
"When Holland knocked out Montgomery last year with that cheap shot, I said to our players that he had to be told that next time he had his head over the ball he might cop one," Eade said. "It's not sledging about any personal things that have happened in life."
Wallace, who has likened his fractured team to last year's Essendon outfit, is confident the structure will return by the second half of the season. Wallace was again left to rue a fruitless Friday night after the Tigers went down by 32 points to the Bulldogs.
He said plans that had promised so much during pre-season had been turned upside down.
"We still haven't got our structure the way that we'd like it and it hurts," he said. "Essendon went through the same sort of thing . . . they had to throw Patrick Ryder into the ruck.
"As we get a couple of the boys back and get our structure in place, we've got to show people that we've got a strong ride home to the latter part of the season."
The winless Tigers have a nightmare month ahead - West Coast (home), Geelong (home), Port Adelaide (away) and Adelaide (away).