Disgraceful

[Topdog]

As much as I hate reactionary posts so close to the game ending that was an absolute ****ing disgrace.

[LostDoggy]

The life and times of a Bulldogs supporter, continually being let down.

[cambo]

extremely dissapointing, when is Rocket going to drop under performing players? every year we have a chance to set up our season and it always ends like this. FRUSTRATING!!!!!!

[Scorlibo]

The life and times of a Bulldogs supporter, continually being let down.

Exactly. I'm so so so so sick of it.

The quick kick forward from Priddis should never have been marked, let alone uncontestedly!

[LostDoggy]

Way too many non-contributors today.

[DOG GOD]

We'll be lucky to get close in our next 3 games and then it will be out 1st week of finals. We dont deserve to be top 4...cant beat a team in the bottom half let alone win against the other teams in the top 8.

We would need Murph, Higgins, Gia and Welsh ALL back and ALL firing. The way we played today was like we had NO confidence going into our fwd 50, and to be honest it absolutely SHITS me evrytime i see us going to a one on one contest with like Hill vs Glass....or Stack vs ? They are NOT KP fwds for F SAKE!!!

[LostDoggy]

Sorry Williams but you're a spud!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How many times did guys who should know better, either blaze away at goals without even scanning to see if another was in a better position? We did this last week as well, and as a consequence our point tally was way above our goal tally.

Also how many times did guys who also should've known better have the ball forward of centre and just bomb it forward in hope- only to see it inevitably end up with an Eagle player.

Hahn & Cooney were two of the main culprits. Just made me want to throw things at the telly.

[Topdog]

Sorry Williams but you're a spud!

He beat Nic Nat literally every time they were up against each other.

[Topdog]

Hahn & Cooney were two of the main culprits. Just made me want to throw things at the telly.

Cooney was disgusting today. Kept kicking off 1 or 2 steps. If he is playing like that because of his knee he should be rested next week.

[DOG GOD]

We'll see how Williams goes next week if he comes up against Brown or Bradshaw.
I'm not sold on him yet...i'm not saying he's a tim walsh ( we already have Grant on the list there), but boy does he look lethargic and do some annoying things...and how slow does he look at times.

[LostDoggy]

He beat Nic Nat literally every time they were up against each other.

He played on him for about 5 min! His awareness and ground skills are substandard

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Putting this performance in perspective, a Saints side missing 7 of it's best players, still find a way to not only beat the Hawks in Tassie, but totally strangle them.

We are going to get a belting in the media and deserved. Our players need to work out whether they want to be elite or also rans.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Cooney was disgusting today. Kept kicking off 1 or 2 steps. If he is playing like that because of his knee he should be rested next week.

It will be interesting to see the disposal effectiveness from today, Cooney would be lucky to be 50%.
Agreed if he's not right, get him out of there, he did more damage than good today. 30 possies and only a handful of them worthwhile.

[Topdog]

He played on him for about 5 min! His awareness and ground skills are substandard

He played on him about 5 minutes every quarter.

[DOG GOD]

We are NOT in stkilda's league atm...i dont think anyone is after watching the cats last night. Our mindset was dead in the water from the 1st qtr and it seemed that we knew we could outrun them, and once again we fell short.

Have to win 2 of the last 3 to make top 4 with other games going our way with ess and coll winning tonights games, otherwise bye bye.

[LostDoggy]

He played on him about 5 minutes every quarter.

So you thought he played well? Don't worry he was'nt the only one

[Topdog]

So you thought he played well? Don't worry he was'nt the only one

I thought he was no where near our worst and certainly not bad enough to get single criticism.

[LostDoggy]

Say goodbye to a top four spot
Say goodbye to a grand final spot
Say goodbye to a premiership in 2009
Say hello to season 2010

Our past month has really been a disgrace, not only today's game.
Looks like we are sinking after 2/3 of the year again :(

and COONEY!
dont get me started about cooney!!

[LostDoggy]

Dogs played poor that is a given.

Eagleton - very poor game from him looked like a class below everyone else.

Williams - His reading of the play is zero. Gets lead to the ball and his positioning is very poor. Plays like a small bodied player.

Lake - His marking is great but we have fallen into a plan with him were he is unaccountable. He tries to drop of and take up a position in the hole but most of the time his player is carving him up.

Hargrave. Was poor today but so was everyone else but it was the worst game I have seen him play this year.

Cooney - He is just going. Poor kicks and poor handballs.

Griffen - Decision making and skills were well down today.

Stack - Not sure if he had a possesion. None contributor.

Hanh - Worst year continues for this bloke really we have no depth as this bloke needs a break.

Addison - Why are you in the team? Can some one tell me why he is there?

Minson - Hands like planks of wood. Explain to me why Skipper is worse than this guy?

Boyd - Poor game from his lofty heights today.

Triers:
Aker - Great game from him and nearly pinched it for us.
Johno - Tried hard all day.
Harbrow - Some good efforts today.
Hill - Punching way out of his class against Glass and others much bigger.
Gilbee - Good game from him really is classy.
Wood - Good debut. Well done.
Ward - did OK but could have been better.
Hudson - Good work from him today certainly one of the better players

Leaders. The only leader on the ground was Aker in my opinion and other senior players had a bye this week. Really need Higgins back as I think he is a leader for us.

For me to have any confidence going forward we need win the next three games other wise I am writing this season of.

[Remi Moses]

Memo Rocket Eade. Dylan Addison is not a forward he has absolutely no idea:confused::confused:
Cooney one step kick for goal in the first embarrasing to say the least
Eagleton time to go FFS!! Please give O'keefe a go pleeeeeeeease!!
Seriously pathetic,inept disrespectful performance today and we wont win another game for the season

[GVGjr]

The only good thing to come out of this is a mate of mine had a $20 bet last night at the Shoppingtown Hotel and tipped Carlton to beat Geelong at something like $2.95 into StKilda to beat the Hawks at something like $2.25 into the Eagles to beat us at $10.

It's his shout next Friday for a meal.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He beat Nic Nat literally every time they were up against each other.

Williams was spanked by Kennedy in every single contest. He can't read the play and as a result is always playing from behind, punching thin air.

He's a long, long way off.


Cooney was disgusting today. Kept kicking off 1 or 2 steps. If he is playing like that because of his knee he should be rested next week.

The worst game by Cooney - ever.

I agree. He shouldn't be playing if his knee is giving him the trouble it seems to be.




Hargrave. Was poor today but so was everyone else but it was the worst game I have seen him play this year.

Griffen - Decision making and skills were well down today.

Minson - Hands like planks of wood. Explain to me why Skipper is worse than this guy?

The amount of times Hargrave bombs the ball to a contest/nobody is ridiculous. When is he going to learn to lower his eyes? He does it time and time again and we get killed on the rebound every time. He was half asleep today too, watching his man instead of the flight of the ball.

Why does Griffen continually insist on kicking around his body? He's turning it over more and more. It un-does all of his good hard work in getting the ball. He's only putting more pressure on himself by trying to kick around his body. It gives the defenders more of an opening to apply pressure, and it means he's got less margin for error. Somebody needs to rectify this quickly.

Very disappointed in Minson. He had 4-6 very good weeks but he's been dreadful in the last 2 or 3. He's probably got the worst hands in the entire competition. His ruck work was bad too, a number of times he didn't even give a contest. Lynch (I think it was) beat him in the centre and got the ball forward which resulted in a crucial late goal because Minson let him jump right past him.


Leaders. The only leader on the ground was Aker in my opinion and other senior players had a bye this week. Really need Higgins back as I think he is a leader for us.

This is a massive issue for the club. Aker and Higgins are about the only two capable of standing up when they're needed to. The leadership is almost non-existant. Hudson has been poor for most of the year IMO, Boyd's been average the last few weeks and Johnson makes too many errors/misses easy goals.

It's a huge problem.

[Sleeve1970]

Time to pack up and get Barry Hall for next year, top four is a dream and a flag is just a pipe dream. Have to wait another 56 years at this rate.

That was the worst game I have ever seen this bunch of pretenders play. They should all hang their heads in shame. Even a dogs team under Peter Rhodes played better.

NOT HAPPY JAN.............................

Love this team but bloody hell who is more frustrating to watch and support Richmond or the Dogs????????

[Sleeve1970]

Rocket put the Saturn rockets away and get the space shuttle out and plow it up the backsides of this team and get them back on track........

[The Coon Dog]

Gotta admit, I haven't felt this gutted after a loss since 1997!

Glad I'm not going out tonight, I'd be miserable company, feel about as happy as a bastard on Father's Day to be truthful.

Shattered!

Wanted to drop 14 of 'em after the game, but that will pass.....I hope.

[LostDoggy]

I think you are all being harsh on poor Tom Williams after all he did kick 5 goals...........hang on that was his opponents.
In all seriousness I believe some kudos should go Tom because it is clear he decided to start "Tanking" on his own, well done Tom.
I am now calling him Thomas the Tank (I can't use engine, because I doubt he has one).
Is any one interested in joining a Tom for GC17 movement?
There are a few others (21) who need to wake up to themselves, and that includes the coaching staff!
Some of the rotations today were incomprehensible.
There my spleen is relieved of some pressure but not the disgust of this insipid under 15 style performance, these players are being paid way too much for what they are giving this footy club!

[angelopetraglia]

Gotta admit, I haven't felt this gutted after a loss since 1997!

Glad I'm not going out tonight, I'd be miserable company, feel about as happy as a bastard on Father's Day to be truthful.

Shattered!

Wanted to drop 14 of 'em after the game, but that will pass.....I hope.

Agree. Have not been this gutted since that final in 1997. Absolutely devastated. I'm also lousy company at the moment ....

[LostDoggy]

I think you are all being harsh on poor Tom Williams after all he did kick 5 goals...........hang on that was his opponents.
In all seriousness I believe some kudos should go Tom because it is clear he decided to start "Tanking" on his own, well done Tom.
I am now calling him Thomas the Tank (I can't use engine, because I doubt he has one).
Is any one interested in joining a Tom for GC17 movement?
There are a few others (21) who need to wake up to themselves, and that includes the coaching staff!
Some of the rotations today were incomprehensible.
There my spleen is relieved of some pressure but not the disgust of this insipid under 15 style performance, these players are being paid way too much for what they are giving this footy club!

This season should show the selectors who can and who can't step up in big games. We need to rebuild with these players gone for decent picks. Do a Hawthorn clean out and really rebuild with the youngsters who are decent players. I rate a few of the boys but strongly suggest that making up the numbers each year is not my idea of winning a premiership.
Clean out anyone over 30. Get picks for dud big game players and rebuild with those. Unfortunately we will not do this and another mediocre season were we are two or three players short of a premier side awaits.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Glad I'm not going out tonight, I'd be miserable company, feel about as happy as a bastard on Father's Day to be truthful.

I'm heading out tonight because I don't think I could handle watching ANY kind of football tonight!

[cambo]

maybe the club has not re signed Rocket for a reason? every year we fall away before the finals, he plays guys who are out of form and not up to standard (Williams, Eagleton,Minson and co) Why hasnt Skipper been given a go, has been in the best 5 for Willianstown every week. Agree with all comments posted today

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I have tried 5 times now to post with this and can't believe the spray i want to let fly. Well we may just have a few kids around so the clean version.

Do you think it is between the ears and that the team is soft? It looks years ago that we toweled up the hawks and i can't understand how we have played so insipid in the last 7 quarters.

I'm hoping that this is the real wake up call to the team as they will not get a better chance to play in a GF and perhaps win, like this year.

We all know that our best is brilliant but our worst was on display today. I had high hopes that the "New" fitness program was going to be the difference, but I suppose a new training centre, New football manger, New fitness department, New recruiters don't change the in-bedded deep rooted problems that lie within the club.

I will be even more shattered if they come out next week and win by 10 goals.

[mjp]

Agree with all comments posted today


Not me.

Is anyone going to mention the comeback from 46 points down to hitting the front in the last quarter?

Yes, the start was terrible - the players were continually outnumbered at the contest by West Coast, which is a direct pointer to work-rate - but they turned it around and hit the front...twice. Not exactly the sign of a group who dont care and aren't trying.

I am completely convinced that there are either no posters here who have played competitive sport at any level or alternatively they have simply forgotten how hard it is to win every single week...unless of course every season had a zero in the loss column and a premiership cup at the end.

Accusing Williams of tanking? Give me a break. Kennedy got hold of him? Well, here is the thing - Kennedy is a better player than Tom Williams. Clean out everyone over 30? See ya Johnno, see ya Aker. Never mind that they were shining lights today (Johnno's first half was sensational).

As for the Cooney criticism...I hope none of you clapped when he kicked that goal from outside 50m in the last quarter. His kicking was poor - I dont know why, and nor do you. Perhaps, he had an injection before the game? Who knows...nearly 30 touches says to me he worked pretty darn hard and he was certainly putting in at the end.

As for the calls for Skipper to come and save the day, give me a break. Oh yeah - and the coaching staff are dead-set useless...we have been fixtures in the top 4 for the past 18months now...can you guys remember 2004? Saying a Peter Rohde team played better - we were losing by 100 points, not by a kick.

We lost by less than a goal. We will be playing finals - all is not lost. Could today's effort been better? Yep. Is it disappointing? Yep. Is it a reason to accuse players of tanking and throw all the toys out of the cot? Not even close.

[Dry Rot]

This season should show the selectors who can and who can't step up in big games. We need to rebuild with these players gone for decent picks. Do a Hawthorn clean out and really rebuild with the youngsters who are decent players. I rate a few of the boys but strongly suggest that making up the numbers each year is not my idea of winning a premiership.
Clean out anyone over 30. Get picks for dud big game players and rebuild with those. Unfortunately we will not do this and another mediocre season were we are two or three players short of a premier side awaits.

If Lake leaves, then this is the way to go IMO.

[Happy Days]

Not me.

Is anyone going to mention the comeback from 46 points down to hitting the front in the last quarter?

Yes, the start was terrible - the players were continually outnumbered at the contest by West Coast, which is a direct pointer to work-rate - but they turned it around and hit the front...twice. Not exactly the sign of a group who dont care and aren't trying.

I am completely convinced that there are either no posters here who have played competitive sport at any level or alternatively they have simply forgotten how hard it is to win every single week...unless of course every season had a zero in the loss column and a premiership cup at the end.

Accusing Williams of tanking? Give me a break. Kennedy got hold of him? Well, here is the thing - Kennedy is a better player than Tom Williams. Clean out everyone over 30? See ya Johnno, see ya Aker. Never mind that they were shining lights today (Johnno's first half was sensational).

As for the Cooney criticism...I hope none of you clapped when he kicked that goal from outside 50m in the last quarter. His kicking was poor - I dont know why, and nor do you. Perhaps, he had an injection before the game? Who knows...nearly 30 touches says to me he worked pretty darn hard and he was certainly putting in at the end.

As for the calls for Skipper to come and save the day, give me a break. Oh yeah - and the coaching staff are dead-set useless...we have been fixtures in the top 4 for the past 18months now...can you guys remember 2004? Saying a Peter Rohde team played better - we were losing by 100 points, not by a kick.

We lost by less than a goal. We will be playing finals - all is not lost. Could today's effort been better? Yep. Is it disappointing? Yep. Is it a reason to accuse players of tanking and throw all the toys out of the cot? Not even close.

Sorry, but this is a complete rose-coloured glasses job.

The effort put in today against a bottom-4 side, one who hasn't won away from Subiaco for 19 games before today, was absolutely deplorable. We, the supporters, are going to give them a wack, and they completely deserve it.

The fact of the matter is that we were r-u-b-b-i-s-h today, and this effort is simply not acceptable if we want to go anywhere with our football.

[Rocco Jones]

It really feels like the latter third of last season all over again. The only difference is that this year we don't have the wins behind us to get us a top 4 spot. I think we will finish the home and away season in 6th and get knocked out 2nd week.

[LostDoggy]

I thought he was no where near our worst and certainly not bad enough to get single criticism.

You're kidding! He was embarissing being a KPB! Kennedy pulled his pants down. I'm not singling him out but jeez he was a stand out for me! We had no direction today but thats understandable as we dont have a forward line! In the words of Rex Hunt Shisehausen:eek:

[mighty_west]

That was poo!!!!

Did anyone else notice how big a side West Coast compared to us, it was like men against boys.

[BulldogBelle]

Last year before the player delistings the brains trust (coaching staff) should have put a plan together of how they were to win a premiership the following year.

This plan would include the sort of players that were needed, and how the club was going to get or develop them. It would also include various training and fitness strategies and many other things including player management and team issues.

I think that last October probably most of us imagined that we needed a tall forward. A tall foward who could take a grab in the forward line and provide a focus for our mid-fielders when pressured. We didn't get one in the draft so I suppose we planned to develop one in the reserves. It doesn't seem to have worked with Grant, Roughhead or Cordy.

What is disappointing is that the coach doesn't seem to be preparing somebody for the tall-forward job. We know that people develop at different rates and some players are late bloomers (they show their best when older than others). Skipper??????? When new players are introduced they seem to get less playing time than the old hacks. Minson, why does he drop marks that he should hold, is he not getting the right training? The coach has not pleased me on player development.


It also seems as though the selection committee have gone down the wrong path when selecting players who are out of form. They seem to value team and player continuity more than 'form'. Each week we scream to have certain players dropped and others included but disappointingly we too often see 'No changes'. Eagleton, strewth, does he have to drop himself. I reckon he cost us 3 goals in the first quarter today. The coach has not pleased me on player selection and reward for effort.


There are certain aspects of our game that I do not like. The whole side seems to have crossitis. Look for somebody to take the easy hand-ball rather than kick - and when in doubt kick sideways. I don't like the way that we often leave nobody in the forward zone when defending (when we do leave somebody there it is usually some short guy). I don't like the way that we start slowly. Is this our coach being out-coached, or is it our coach being outdone in player preparation? i don't like some of our rotations, why are our best players off the ground for long periods of time? The coach has not pleased me on game day tactics.

Not too late to make a few drastic changes. Scrap the old plans - they were cr4p. Got some good players coming back, might yet win, despite the 'brainstrust'.

[angelopetraglia]

That was poo!!!!

Did anyone else notice how big a side West Coast compared to us, it was like men against boys.

Not that much in it. Teams that took the field today;

Bulldogs: Weight 88.5kg, Height 187.1cm

West Coast: Weight 88.2kg, Height 188.3cm

[mighty_west]

Not that much in it. Teams that took the field today;

Bulldogs: Weight 88.5kg, Height 187.1cm

West Coast: Weight 88.2kg, Height 188.3cm

Is that both teams full quota of players or the players that ran out today? I dunno, for whatever reason, they just looked alot bigger in their respective huddles.

[Mofra]

The amount of times Hargrave bombs the ball to a contest/nobody is ridiculous. When is he going to learn to lower his eyes? He does it time and time again and we get killed on the rebound every time. He was half asleep today too, watching his man instead of the flight of the ball.
In all fairness to Shaggy, it's not like we have a forwardline to kick to.

[Mofra]

Williams is now in the gun (20 game rule?).
Tommy had a poor game, but there were worse:
Eagle's first half was terrible - here I was defending this bloke a few weeks back, what a waste of bandwidth.
Stack played one of the worst individual games of AFL football since the competition was nationalised.
Our forwardline structure is non-existant
If a bottom 8 team can cut our zone to ribbons, what will a firing Geelong or St Kilda do?

[mighty_west]

In all fairness to Shaggy, it's not like we have a forwardline to kick to.

Is that because of our size up forward or that the players just didn't work hard enough to present?

[bornadog]

Not me.

Is anyone going to mention the comeback from 46 points down to hitting the front in the last quarter?

Yes, the start was terrible - the players were continually outnumbered at the contest by West Coast, which is a direct pointer to work-rate - but they turned it around and hit the front...twice. Not exactly the sign of a group who dont care and aren't trying.

I am completely convinced that there are either no posters here who have played competitive sport at any level or alternatively they have simply forgotten how hard it is to win every single week...unless of course every season had a zero in the loss column and a premiership cup at the end.

Accusing Williams of tanking? Give me a break. Kennedy got hold of him? Well, here is the thing - Kennedy is a better player than Tom Williams. Clean out everyone over 30? See ya Johnno, see ya Aker. Never mind that they were shining lights today (Johnno's first half was sensational).

As for the Cooney criticism...I hope none of you clapped when he kicked that goal from outside 50m in the last quarter. His kicking was poor - I dont know why, and nor do you. Perhaps, he had an injection before the game? Who knows...nearly 30 touches says to me he worked pretty darn hard and he was certainly putting in at the end.

As for the calls for Skipper to come and save the day, give me a break. Oh yeah - and the coaching staff are dead-set useless...we have been fixtures in the top 4 for the past 18months now...can you guys remember 2004? Saying a Peter Rohde team played better - we were losing by 100 points, not by a kick.

We lost by less than a goal. We will be playing finals - all is not lost. Could today's effort been better? Yep. Is it disappointing? Yep. Is it a reason to accuse players of tanking and throw all the toys out of the cot? Not even close.

Top post MJP, the posters are all talking through their emotions and dissapointment of losing.

I think we just didn't didn't use the ball well enough, it was evident in the way we entered the forward 50 (62 entries is a hell of a lot for any game). We continually bombed it in expecting poor Hill and Stack to take screamers against the likes of Glass and Hurn, who just brushed them aside. Yes Cooney did have some poor disposal and cost us a couple of goals , but I actually thought he found some of his dash today.

Without players like Murphy, Higgins , Gia, Welsh and with inexperienced young players like Stack, Wood, Hill, Harbrow, Everitt, Ward, (all around 19/20 years old)and to some extent Williams (only 30 game player), each week is going to be tough.

[AndrewP6]

Is that because of our size up forward or that the players just didn't work hard enough to present?

Bit of both, IMO... too many stand and watch. But at times it appears we're kicking it towards a big target...who isn't there.

[bulldogtragic]

In all the times and awful feelings i've felt at the footy. This is second to the 1997 pre-lim. Gutted.

[AndrewP6]

Top post MJP, the posters are all talking through their emotions and dissapointment of losing.

I think we just didn't didn't use the ball well enough, it was evident in the way we entered the forward 50 (62 entries is a hell of a lot for any game). We continually bombed it in expecting poor Hill and Stack to take screamers against the likes of Glass and Hurn, who just brushed them aside. Yes Cooney did have some poor disposal and cost us a couple of goals , but I actually thought he found some of his dash today.

Without players like Murphy, Higgins , Gia, Welsh and with inexperienced young players like Stack, Wood, Hill, Harbrow, Everitt, Ward, (all around 19/20 years old)and to some extent Williams (only 30 game player), each week is going to be tough.

Yes, there is obviously emotion coming through. But there've been numerous times this year when many issues raised here have come up. We have spent a great deal of time this year aimlessly bombing it forward. That's a problem that needs addressing. THe remainder of the season is going to be tough, but todays effort was worse than the belting we got at Subi earlier in the year. To me, that says there are deeper issues.

Agree on Cooney. He didn't use it that well, but the run is returning.

[mighty_west]

Bit of both, IMO... too many stand and watch. But at times it appears we're kicking it towards a big target...who isn't there.

What a shame that our best contested marking option plays at full back, he also kicked a very important & pressured goal after the siren as well, no sign of that whammy hammy!!!

[LostDoggy]

Very disappointed by an insipid display again, my dreams are broken by my dogs again. All is lost unless we win 2 of the next 3.

[angelopetraglia]

Is that both teams full quota of players or the players that ran out today? I dunno, for whatever reason, they just looked alot bigger in their respective huddles.

Played today.

[GVGjr]

Did anyone else notice how big a side West Coast compared to us, it was like men against boys.

They are a powerful side and guys like Hurn use the ball so well. Forget about whatever the stats might say I agree that they were a lot bigger.

[angelopetraglia]

They are a powerful side and guys like Hurn use the ball so well. Forget about whatever the stats might say I agree that they were a lot bigger.

The facts are the facts. We are slightly heavier they are slightly taller. Nothing in it.

More powerful, maybe.

Bigger, no.

[Dazza]

Yeah. Alot of players were non existant today. Hill played well. Hard call on stack as he provided pressure but just didnt get on the end of things. Everitt is a liability. Aker easily B.o.g for us.

I'll probably edit this as I sober up.

[comrade]

Is it too drastic to say I'll never go to another game whilst Eagleton is picked in the 22, including any finals?

[bulldogtragic]

Is it too drastic to say I'll never go to another game whilst Eagleton is picked in the 22, including any finals?
No. I was formally his biggest supporter. I hope he can get one more game to play 200 for the club, but i have changed my position to re-sign him on the vet's to cut him out ASAP either now, or for his sake and stats sake, one more game. He has been a passenger for near on 2 months. Like Rocco has been saying, i'd like to see some attitudes and good 2nd's form rewarded now, or moving Hill/Everitt to the wing to see how they go. The very definition of insanity is doing the same things and expecting different outcomes. We need to change team selection and unfortunately for Nathan's sake, i don't see how he is positively contributing at the moment.

[Rocco Jones]

Is it too drastic to say I'll never go to another game whilst Eagleton is picked in the 22, including any finals?

I would love to do that but I have paid for flights, accommodation and tickets to next week's game.

[Studentlib]

Simply outcoached and outplayed. I've seen their training drills and they hit targets on chests of leading forwards. Why don't they play the way they train?. Where oh where is plan B? Last week Fremantle showed WCE how to beat us. Early on Flood Dogs backhalf , and the Dogs forwards desert their positions en masse, then can't run fast enough or smart enough to right positions when we bring it out of backline. Later just take control of the corridor and force dogs to boundaries. It's where they prefer to go anyway.
Without a KPF we will never straighten up. Minson or even an Everitt must stay in position inside 50 and just provide a contest and bring the ball to ground. Nobody should try to outmark this KF. Smaller forwards either present another option or crumb - simple as that.
We really seem to have lost our way! and I'm not convinced that blaming the players is necessarily correct. At various stages today we had Addison, Williams or Everitt as spare man in defence. None of them have the experience or nous to fulfill that role to any advantage. Blame a coaching staff that allows inexperienced players to be left out to dry with Hargrave either panicking or plain dumb and flaky laky as your leaders. Luckily Lake had a slack kickout that went 25 metres to a WCE player brought back or they would have scored another goal. His best is counteracted by his worst and can hardly inspire confidence in his young defenders. Why didn't Johnno go or be sent down to provide some leadership and drive in the spare man role?
I understand teams are tired at this point but it is the lack of direction and the absence of any evidence of some plan that they are trying to work towards, that makes me think that the coaching staff are overrated. A year of planning and I've seen U16s with more sense of cohesion and structure. Oh and what about having someone in the square when either team is shooting for goal and not turning your back on the player with the ball at vital moments! Junior football should teach you these simple rules. Disappointed but not surprised by today's result. We are limping towards September but should be organising for 2011.

[bulldogtragic]

I would love to do that but I have paid for flights, accommodation and tickets to next week's game.
Remember to celebrate his 200th game for the WBFC...

[mjp]

Sorry, but this is a complete rose-coloured glasses job.

The effort put in today against a bottom-4 side, one who hasn't won away from Subiaco for 19 games before today, was absolutely deplorable. We, the supporters, are going to give them a wack, and they completely deserve it.

The fact of the matter is that we were r-u-b-b-i-s-h today, and this effort is simply not acceptable if we want to go anywhere with our football.

The EFFORT in the first quarter and a half was terrible - I said this in my previous post. The effort and work rate from that point forward was very good. You might not like the execution - I agree, at times it was poor - but given the comments I really wonder what games everyone has been attending earlier in the season as for me it was a basic repeat of every other game (wins and losses).

In terms of ball use (let's focus on the second half when we actually had the ball) - we got a 'par' performance from every player except Cooney (who kicked very poorly compared to his normal output). But if anyone is surprised at the way the rest of the players kicked the footy...well, they always kick that way. It wasn't surprising that when we took marks inside 50m the players kicking it in there were Aker (Cross took a mark) and Gilbee (Eagleton took a mark then butchered it). The rest of them were pretty much the same as always - Hill forces it to the impossible spot, Eagleton, Hargrave and Hahn blaze away, Ward and Boyd kick it too flat and it goes wide (would help if the forwards led at the ball carrier though), Griffen is similar to Hill but tries to force it at 1 bazillion miles an hour, Cross runs backwards and looks to handball....that is what they do and it is what they did today.

If we had won by 10 goals - which is what our second half form translated too - no-one would be calling these faults to account yet they have been clearly evident all year (all career???). So why weren't they all being criticised last week....In fact, last week moving DFA to the forward line was a coaching masterstroke - today I have read 4 separate posts suggesting it is the dumbest plan ever conceived...so which is it?

Why is it that every time we lose the same culture of blame comes out on this board and it is all about 'sack him', 'drop him', 'never play again', 'Not renewing my membership'...everyone knows from age 6 that there are more kicks in the bum than licks of the icecream if you want to get involved in a footy club. Today the playing group got a nice kick up the backside. Fine. They need to play better. Fine. From my perspective - based on what the playing group have delivered this year - I am confident that they will. In the last 3 months it is only the St Kilda game that was a real let down in terms of the scoreboard - and say what you will about that, but we were only 3 goals down at 3/4 time when the whole '19th man' incident seemed to trigger a collapse. Basically, as members we are getting good value for money at the moment - and even today, it would have been very easy for the players to simply write it off as 'one of those days' at half time. They weren't prepared to do that though and nearly pinched a game they deserved to lose.

[Happy Days]

The EFFORT in the first quarter and a half was terrible - I said this in my previous post. The effort and work rate from that point forward was very good. You might not like the execution - I agree, at times it was poor - but given the comments I really wonder what games everyone has been attending earlier in the season as for me it was a basic repeat of every other game (wins and losses).

In terms of ball use (let's focus on the second half when we actually had the ball) - we got a 'par' performance from every player except Cooney (who kicked very poorly compared to his normal output). But if anyone is surprised at the way the rest of the players kicked the footy...well, they always kick that way. It wasn't surprising that when we took marks inside 50m the players kicking it in there were Aker (Cross took a mark) and Gilbee (Eagleton took a mark then butchered it). The rest of them were pretty much the same as always - Hill forces it to the impossible spot, Eagleton, Hargrave and Hahn blaze away, Ward and Boyd kick it too flat and it goes wide (would help if the forwards led at the ball carrier though), Griffen is similar to Hill but tries to force it at 1 bazillion miles an hour, Cross runs backwards and looks to handball....that is what they do and it is what they did today.

If we had won by 10 goals - which is what our second half form translated too - no-one would be calling these faults to account yet they have been clearly evident all year (all career???). So why weren't they all being criticised last week....In fact, last week moving DFA to the forward line was a coaching masterstroke - today I have read 4 separate posts suggesting it is the dumbest plan ever conceived...so which is it?

Why is it that every time we lose the same culture of blame comes out on this board and it is all about 'sack him', 'drop him', 'never play again', 'Not renewing my membership'...everyone knows from age 6 that there are more kicks in the bum than licks of the icecream if you want to get involved in a footy club. Today the playing group got a nice kick up the backside. Fine. They need to play better. Fine. From my perspective - based on what the playing group have delivered this year - I am confident that they will. In the last 3 months it is only the St Kilda game that was a real let down in terms of the scoreboard - and say what you will about that, but we were only 3 goals down at 3/4 time when the whole '19th man' incident seemed to trigger a collapse. Basically, as members we are getting good value for money at the moment - and even today, it would have been very easy for the players to simply write it off as 'one of those days' at half time. They weren't prepared to do that though and nearly pinched a game they deserved to lose.

Apologies mjp for what was a reactionary post on my behalf.

After re-reading your post after a bit of a lie down, you're completely correct. What was, in truth, one and a half bad quarters, translated into a loss to inferior opposition. And our effort in coming back was sensational, but it is also where in lies my concern.

What I am still frustrated by is our inability to either not play under pressure, or come back to a degree and become complacent with 'a good effort' and not finish a team off. Against Geelong, we did it (came back from 30+ down), and I copped it, was even proud of our boys as I left the Dome. Against the Pies, we did it again, and it began to become a bit of concern. Today it happened again, in another game we had to win.

There's no pressure in coming back from 47 points down; no one expects you to get it done.

As well as that, I fear we may lack the ability to deliver the knock-out punch to send teams off after putting them on the ropes.

[firstdogonthemoon]

Basically, as members we are getting good value for money at the moment - and even today, it would have been very easy for the players to simply write it off as 'one of those days' at half time. They weren't prepared to do that though and nearly pinched a game they deserved to lose.

You have done what no one else could, you have cheered me up a bit. Thanks.

[LostDoggy]

My concern is the fact that the team cannot get it self rolling for the first half of games and cannot get itself rolling in games it should win. Why? Why can't the coaching staff get consistent efforts out of players? Why can't players see weaker opposition as an opportunity to shine rather than take it easy. Taking out the fact that this guy played well and this guy didn't. 80% of the team was down and flat. We got going once the game was well and truly on the way we looked abysmal. Lots of finger pointing today and players not playing for each other and sacrificing for the team. We have seen our best and we know its good that is why we are disappointed in todays effort. I just have to come to the conclusion that either a/ players don't care or b/ Eade cannot motivate the group. As I am not privy to the goings on at the club I cannot not pick which. Maybe its both who knows. But its a shame to see such talent not seeing its full potential.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry Williams but you're a spud!

Oh but keep giving him a game because he's tall.

GOK can't get a game despite performing week after week, but all these athletes are given a free ride into the team. Surely we need some footballers out there, not just gorillas.

[LostDoggy]

The EFFORT in the first quarter and a half was terrible - I said this in my previous post. The effort and work rate from that point forward was very good. You might not like the execution - I agree, at times it was poor - but given the comments I really wonder what games everyone has been attending earlier in the season as for me it was a basic repeat of every other game (wins and losses).

In terms of ball use (let's focus on the second half when we actually had the ball) - we got a 'par' performance from every player except Cooney (who kicked very poorly compared to his normal output). But if anyone is surprised at the way the rest of the players kicked the footy...well, they always kick that way. It wasn't surprising that when we took marks inside 50m the players kicking it in there were Aker (Cross took a mark) and Gilbee (Eagleton took a mark then butchered it). The rest of them were pretty much the same as always - Hill forces it to the impossible spot, Eagleton, Hargrave and Hahn blaze away, Ward and Boyd kick it too flat and it goes wide (would help if the forwards led at the ball carrier though), Griffen is similar to Hill but tries to force it at 1 bazillion miles an hour, Cross runs backwards and looks to handball....that is what they do and it is what they did today.

If we had won by 10 goals - which is what our second half form translated too - no-one would be calling these faults to account yet they have been clearly evident all year (all career???). So why weren't they all being criticised last week....In fact, last week moving DFA to the forward line was a coaching masterstroke - today I have read 4 separate posts suggesting it is the dumbest plan ever conceived...so which is it?

Why is it that every time we lose the same culture of blame comes out on this board and it is all about 'sack him', 'drop him', 'never play again', 'Not renewing my membership'...everyone knows from age 6 that there are more kicks in the bum than licks of the icecream if you want to get involved in a footy club. Today the playing group got a nice kick up the backside. Fine. They need to play better. Fine. From my perspective - based on what the playing group have delivered this year - I am confident that they will. In the last 3 months it is only the St Kilda game that was a real let down in terms of the scoreboard - and say what you will about that, but we were only 3 goals down at 3/4 time when the whole '19th man' incident seemed to trigger a collapse. Basically, as members we are getting good value for money at the moment - and even today, it would have been very easy for the players to simply write it off as 'one of those days' at half time. They weren't prepared to do that though and nearly pinched a game they deserved to lose.

That's rubbish mjp. We ALWAYS complain about Crossy handballing backwards, Hilly doing what he does, Eagleton being a dickhead, Johnno and Hargrave kicking to no one, Griffen playing like a headless chook etc. whether we win or lose. You've been part of this board for yonks, you should know that these faults HAVE been called to account every week (all career!).

Every team knows these faults, and the better ones have always exploited it. In fact, the fact that these faults exist means that effort HAS TO always be 100%, or else we lose.

The frustration is that:
a. the coaching panel doesn't compensate for these flaws by dropping players or changing the system to suit (ie. if many players 'blaze away' then a focal forward is an absolute necessity, otherwise, how about teaching players to kick to a leading player?), many of these players don't learn from their mistakes but are never held to account.. when was the last time Hahn was dropped for being useless?

b. the INTENSITY/EFFORT is not consistent, regardless of output. Who cares if Hill can't kick straight if he bloody puts in an honest effort? Instead, we get this waffle week after week. Three good games at the start of the year do not a career make.

The fact that the Dogs won the second half by ten goals is - instead of an excuse, as you've put it - an indictment on the pathetic collective attitude of this team.. what, because it's West Coast we don't turn up for half a game? What kind of professionalism is there? If my staff put in an effort for only half the time I pay them for they wouldn't be employed very long. The fact that we won the second half by ten goals means that this should have been a comfortable percentage booster instead of an embarassing loss.

I don't know how you can say that the effort was poor for half a game yet still say that you're confident that they'll show up in the finals? Bad habits don't disappear overnight -- and if our first final against Hawthorn last year is any evidence, we're in for another disappointing September.

This team has always been liable to go missing, and no whitewashing of their second half performance can hide that fact.

Pathetic.

[KT31]

Rocket put the Saturn rockets away and get the space shuttle out and plow it up the backsides of this team and get them back on track........

I made it down to training on Tuesday and the signs were worrying then.
No running and what looked like an under 11's training night with shots at goals.
I'm sure they don't train half hardely at Skilled Stadium.
Had the game won after they beat the Dockers and, like most of us were thinking of the Brisbane game.

[LostDoggy]

Oh but keep giving him a game because he's tall.

GOK can't get a game despite performing week after week, but all these athletes are given a free ride into the team. Surely we need some footballers out there, not just gorillas.

Apparently Eade only plays talls that can play. Now surely he is being a hypocrite in this situation.

His form was poor at Williamstown and since has been poor for Dogs. But he is tall.

[AndrewP6]

I made it down to training on Tuesday and the signs were worrying then.
No running and what looked like an under 11's training night with shots at goals.


Apparently they didn't do enough of that!

[LostDoggy]

Hey all, i don't post to much but i thought id post something.

After the game like you all i was guttered. A game we should have won we threw away.

8 hrs later i feel ok

Once again i have hope and optimism.

I love this club and i love these players, we may not be the greatest club or the best list. but we always have hope, and i will always have hope.

Until i die i will love and support this team, good times as slim as they are and a lot of bad times.

We still have next week, and the season is not finished yet until (IF) we lose in the finals.

Heads up and back on board.

cheers

Lee

[Dancin' Douggy]

I don't want to talk about it...........

[LostDoggy]

Not me.

Is anyone going to mention the comeback from 46 points down to hitting the front in the last quarter?

Yes, the start was terrible - the players were continually outnumbered at the contest by West Coast, which is a direct pointer to work-rate - but they turned it around and hit the front...twice. Not exactly the sign of a group who dont care and aren't trying.

I am completely convinced that there are either no posters here who have played competitive sport at any level or alternatively they have simply forgotten how hard it is to win every single week...unless of course every season had a zero in the loss column and a premiership cup at the end.

Accusing Williams of tanking? Give me a break. Kennedy got hold of him? Well, here is the thing - Kennedy is a better player than Tom Williams. Clean out everyone over 30? See ya Johnno, see ya Aker. Never mind that they were shining lights today (Johnno's first half was sensational).

As for the Cooney criticism...I hope none of you clapped when he kicked that goal from outside 50m in the last quarter. His kicking was poor - I dont know why, and nor do you. Perhaps, he had an injection before the game? Who knows...nearly 30 touches says to me he worked pretty darn hard and he was certainly putting in at the end.

As for the calls for Skipper to come and save the day, give me a break. Oh yeah - and the coaching staff are dead-set useless...we have been fixtures in the top 4 for the past 18months now...can you guys remember 2004? Saying a Peter Rohde team played better - we were losing by 100 points, not by a kick.

We lost by less than a goal. We will be playing finals - all is not lost. Could today's effort been better? Yep. Is it disappointing? Yep. Is it a reason to accuse players of tanking and throw all the toys out of the cot? Not even close.

Ive read some seriously poor posts in my time on football forums, this one may just take the cake as the worst.:o

We can't beat a side that's tanking and hasn't won a game in melbourne in their last 19 attempts.

Yes it's hard to win every week and we hardly do that, yet we lost to a team who really gains no advantage by winning.

What a joke, we find a way to get high enough to smell the summit, then we look down and realise we are afraid of heights, It's our trademark.

So spare us you competitive sport dribble and look at the cold hard facts, we let a side who is tanking kick away to a 47 point lead.

prem sides dont do that

[Mantis]

Williams is now in the gun (20 game rule?).
Tommy had a poor game, but there were worse:
Eagle's first half was terrible - here I was defending this bloke a few weeks back, what a waste of bandwidth.
Stack played one of the worst individual games of AFL football since the competition was nationalised.
Our forwardline structure is non-existant
If a bottom 8 team can cut our zone to ribbons, what will a firing Geelong or St Kilda do?

Apology accpeted. ;)

2nd point - Doesn't help when 4 starting forwards are in the sheds.

[Scraggers]

Ive read some seriously poor posts in my time on football forums, this one may just take the cake as the worst.:o

You're kidding aren't you ...

MJP's is probably one of the better posts I have read tonight. A lot better than a lot of the Chicken Little 'The Sky Is Falling' tripe I've read here tonight.

MJP has given perspective to a number of non-sensical posts; and most importantly, he has backed up his point of view

[Stefcep]

I've watched our style of play all season and thought: no forwards structure, no system of getting the ball to the forwards, no plan to get the ball moving from a defensive kick-in, but we were winning, so i wasn't writing us off for the flag, and to get so close against Geelong, I thoguht well were aren't far off. BUT that was all BS. Every test of "we we're at" has show we are far far from top even a genuine top 4 team, let alone a GF. We are the great pretenders. Roll on 2010.

[Stefcep]

That's rubbish mjp. We ALWAYS complain about Crossy handballing backwards, Hilly doing what he does, Eagleton being a dickhead, Johnno and Hargrave kicking to no one, Griffen playing like a headless chook etc. whether we win or lose. You've been part of this board for yonks, you should know that these faults HAVE been called to account every week (all career!).

Every team knows these faults, and the better ones have always exploited it. In fact, the fact that these faults exist means that effort HAS TO always be 100%, or else we lose.

The frustration is that:
a. the coaching panel doesn't compensate for these flaws by dropping players or changing the system to suit (ie. if many players 'blaze away' then a focal forward is an absolute necessity, otherwise, how about teaching players to kick to a leading player?), many of these players don't learn from their mistakes but are never held to account.. when was the last time Hahn was dropped for being useless?

b. the INTENSITY/EFFORT is not consistent, regardless of output. Who cares if Hill can't kick straight if he bloody puts in an honest effort? Instead, we get this waffle week after week. Three good games at the start of the year do not a career make.

The fact that the Dogs won the second half by ten goals is - instead of an excuse, as you've put it - an indictment on the pathetic collective attitude of this team.. what, because it's West Coast we don't turn up for half a game? What kind of professionalism is there? If my staff put in an effort for only half the time I pay them for they wouldn't be employed very long. The fact that we won the second half by ten goals means that this should have been a comfortable percentage booster instead of an embarassing loss.

I don't know how you can say that the effort was poor for half a game yet still say that you're confident that they'll show up in the finals? Bad habits don't disappear overnight -- and if our first final against Hawthorn last year is any evidence, we're in for another disappointing September.

This team has always been liable to go missing, and no whitewashing of their second half performance can hide that fact.

Pathetic.

This is what I call a dose of reality. Personally i got mine after the second loss to the Saints.

About how well we did in the last half:Was listening on the radio in the last 5 min when the game was there to be won and it seemed that a WB players name was said about twice. Where were they, when it mattered?

[immortalmike]

Apology accpeted. ;)

2nd point - Doesn't help when 4 starting forwards are in the sheds.

Exactly, look at how badly Collingwood were playing when Didak, Davis, Medhurst and I believe Cloke were out injured. To lose so many players in one part of the ground tends to kill a team, inexperienced players have to come in (Stack, DFA) and players have play out of position (Gilbee).

[LostDoggy]

You're kidding aren't you ...

MJP's is probably one of the better posts I have read tonight. A lot better than a lot of the Chicken Little 'The Sky Is Falling' tripe I've read here tonight.

MJP has given perspective to a number of non-sensical posts; and most importantly, he has backed up his point of view

What exactly has he backed up?

We lost to a team that hasn't won a game in melbourne all year, a team that has no incentive to win, I think that entitles people to be a little disillusioned with where our club is sitting right now.

I look forward to your response

[The Coon Dog]

Ive read some seriously poor posts in my time on football forums, this one may just take the cake as the worst.:o

We can't beat a side that's tanking and hasn't won a game in melbourne in their last 19 attempts.

Yes it's hard to win every week and we hardly do that, yet we lost to a team who really gains no advantage by winning.

What a joke, we find a way to get high enough to smell the summit, then we look down and realise we are afraid of heights, It's our trademark.

So spare us you competitive sport dribble and look at the cold hard facts, we let a side who is tanking kick away to a 47 point lead.

prem sides dont do that

In your earlier post & this one as well you seem to allude to West Coast tanking or not having an incentive to win. Last week's win over Essendon took the priority pick out of the equation for them!

[Topdog]

Ive read some seriously poor posts in my time on football forums, this one may just take the cake as the worst.:o

I think you have put yourself in the running. Whilst I disagree with mjp in terms of it never being said before he is correct in that the last 70 minutes were a good effort. Still our disposal was poor and execution non-existant at times.



We can't beat a side that's tanking and hasn't won a game in melbourne in their last 19 attempts.

1 out of 2 are correct there. Why do people still say WC are tanking?


Yes it's hard to win every week and we hardly do that, yet we lost to a team who really gains no advantage by winning.

What a joke, we find a way to get high enough to smell the summit, then we look down and realise we are afraid of heights, It's our trademark.

So spare us you competitive sport dribble and look at the cold hard facts, we let a side who is tanking kick away to a 47 point lead.

Again this tanking rubbish. WC gain confidence and getting a winning habit into 17 players under the 50 game mark. Thats a heck of a good habit to have for such a young team. They also get a bit more confidence in winning outside of WC.


prem sides dont do that

I dno't think any side gives away starts as much as we do. It is incredibly frustrating and if we do it at any stage in September than we can kiss the finals goodbye.

[The Pie Man]

Pretty happy I waited until this morning to get online :)

Purely as an emotional fan, the words 'I'm over it' wouldn't leave me yesterday...but it then reminded me of a Mark Thompson press conference early in 07 where I thought he said the exact same thing. Did some digging, came up with the below

After Geelong, in round five, topped an ordinary month by losing to the Kangaroos by 16 points, Thompson said in his post-match news conference that he had asked his players what they wanted him to say by way of explanation.

"They wanted me to come out and tell it how it was," he said. "We had a poor attitude, a lack of respect for the game and the opposition. I just don't want it to happen ever again. I'm over it."

The Cats won their next 15 games.

The Dogs have an opportunity - I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Brisbane next week..obviously they will want to atone for yesterday, but there's an opportunity for the club to be honest with themselves and commit to not put in a first half like yesterday's in again, and all this with the finals and a top 4 spot, should we show up to games and not leave the work for someone else, for the taking.

Speaking of the Brisbane game, did we perhaps take our eye off the ball thinking of this game at the expense of yesterdays? Just a thought.

Some other thoughts

* Stack had 5 touches, but the entry to him rarely/never advantaged him, so I think it would be a too simplistic view to say he was terrible. Small forward role is bloody hard, and he's damn quick

* Hahn had 14 touches, but I can't remember any of them.

* If Addison had been given that in the back in the second quarter that wasn't paid (how, how, how was that not paid?) then maybe he might have got going.

* Both Lake & Coss goaled from set shots :)

* Harbrow & Aker were great

* Good goal from Cooney in the last, but I got the feeling he should've sat out yesterday if he wasn't 100% fit - but of course as an emotional fan, you have to trust the club to make the right call and not be over critical

Let's hope the loss isn't destructive to the playing group...I honestly think it can be quite the opposite should they approach the post mortem the right way, and all this with finals in 3 weeks. We can hope this was Hawthorn's Richmond game from last year.

[Desipura]

Is it too drastic to say I'll never go to another game whilst Eagleton is picked in the 22, including any finals?

I watched him closely today, he was like a 1st gamer out there today. In that I mean the opposition gave him no respect and he was able to run around unmarked. Thats how highly WCE rated him!
I would have thought that was his last game for us, wont hold my breath though :mad:

[Desipura]

How many footballers do we have who dont have footy smarts, ie knowing how to read the play? Too many for my liking

Everitt
Williams
Addison
Hahn
Eagleton
Minson

If only we had more natural footballers like Murphy & Higgins, unfortunately neither of them is a key position player

[Mantis]

My two cents....

Yeah yesterday's efforts was pretty shitful, but I agree with much of what mjp has posted. Our efforts to show some spirit and fight our way back was very good.

Our structures were so poor yesterday in many aspects. As I have posted in other threads the fact that we had 4 forwards out meant that we had no-one capable of playing the 'smart' forward role we required, what also hurt was the disgusting disposal we dished up to them.

The amount of time we kicked the ball on top of our forwards head was patheic. I can remember a particular example when Stack lead to open space and Eagleton kicked the ball almost behind him meaning a Eagles defender was able to make a spoil. If the ball was kicked to Stack's advanatage we would have been in a position to score (he probably would have dropped the mark anyway ;) ) And yes this is just one such example of the efforts of amny so sorry to pick on Eagle (well not really :D)

Our defence was disgusting. Hargrave played his worst game in 5 years. Williams showed why he is very much a project player. Lake while good in parts needs to learn that at times he needs to follow his man up the ground and punch from behind. Thank christ for Morris, but why wasn't he on Le Cras??

Anyway we played shit and copped the defeat we probably deserved. Seeing how we respond next week and for our remaining games will give us a much better idea on where we are heading as yesterdays performance wasn't a true indication of how good a team we are.

[LostDoggy]

I think you have put yourself in the running. Whilst I disagree with mjp in terms of it never being said before he is correct in that the last 70 minutes were a good effort. Still our disposal was poor and execution non-existant at times.



1 out of 2 are correct there. Why do people still say WC are tanking?



Again this tanking rubbish. WC gain confidence and getting a winning habit into 17 players under the 50 game mark. Thats a heck of a good habit to have for such a young team. They also get a bit more confidence in winning outside of WC.



I dno't think any side gives away starts as much as we do. It is incredibly frustrating and if we do it at any stage in September than we can kiss the finals goodbye.

How ever you wanna paint the picture, we lost to a side that hasnt won a game in melborne for 2 years. I would of thought that says it all. What's this 2nd half good effort rubbish....

They have no incentive to finsih high up the bottom 8

[LostDoggy]

My two cents....

Yeah yesterday's efforts was pretty shitful, but I agree with much of what mjp has posted. Our efforts to show some spirit and fight our way back was very good.

.

Why do we have be 30 pints down before we turn the engine on, it seems to be our trademark??

I watched the game and haven't seen us play that bad in a long time

[Mantis]

Why do we have be 30 pints down before we turn the engine on, it seems to be our trademark??

I watched the game and haven't seen us play that bad in a long time

I am not sure. Everything we touched in the first qtr & a half turned to mud and it wasn't like we weren't trying.

At one point we had 24 or 25 inside 50's for 0 goals. They had 16 I50's for 8 goals. The ease at which the ball entered their F50 was really poor, but surely looking at these figures we should have been at worst level at half time.

[Go_Dogs]

They are a powerful side and guys like Hurn use the ball so well.

Geez, Hurn is going to be a terrific player for them. Such a powerful unit with ripping foot skills.



Lot's of upset poster's in here and that is understandable. It was a very disappointing loss and a game that we really needed to win. With our tough run home we have really disadvantaged ourselves to finish top 4.

My area of concern is the continual building the players up at the end of the season. I'm still not convinced this is the best approach, and a brief study of our previous years would tend to provide evidence that it hasn't worked for us.

1) We have a very tough run home, we just HAD to win the games against WC and Freo - why jeopardise our top 4 spot? Yes, some more run in the finals would be nice, but we have to make top 4, we have to ensure players are going to be able to get on the park in the finals.

2) We have been (still are?) very much a confidence side. When things start going wrong a lot of guys still tend to drop their heads. Getting good wins at this time of the year and building momentum before finals is crucial.

3) There is no proven science of 'this is how you do it'. We've experimented with a similar method the past few years. I'll be interested to see how we go over the next month to see if any subtle changes this year have benefits for us, but the early signs are there.


I'm not saying it is all over, there is still at least 4 more matches for us this season to turn it around and see if we can extract any benefit from the training program, and of course quality players back in will help us tremendously.

Let's see how everyone (players and coaching staff) responds.

[LostDoggy]

In future maybe us fans should only turn up at half time. Much more enjoyable that way

[Scorlibo]

I am not sure. Everything we touched in the first qtr & a half turned to mud and it wasn't like we weren't trying.

At one point we had 24 or 25 inside 50's for 0 goals. They had 16 I50's for 8 goals. The ease at which the ball entered their F50 was really poor, but surely looking at these figures we should have been at worst level at half time.

I'd like to see the stat for marks inside fifty, because they seemed to spank us in this area and in general this stat is a wonderful indicator of where the teams are at.

[The Pie Man]

I'd like to see the stat for marks inside fifty, because they seemed to spank us in this area and in general this stat is a wonderful indicator of where the teams are at.

I had the rare opportunity to sit on Level 2 in Access One through work (was nice to be able to take my parents along who don't go much these days and have very dodgy knees/hips - they were nice seats) and I noticed West Coast flooded very early, and when they went forward, they attached a very open forward 50 - they looked dangerous every time they went forward.

I think it does have to be acknowledged that West Coast played pretty well - Embley had one of the better individual efforts I've seen yesterday.

Interesting to hear Cooney say on the Sunday Footy Show that they copped a spray after their warm up before the game - it was clear that early we hadn't turned up

[comrade]

Interesting to hear Cooney say on the Sunday Footy Show that they copped a spray after their warm up before the game - it was clear that early we hadn't turned up

Just not good enough.

[Mantis]

Just not good enough.

Agree.

Their job is to play football and they get paid very well do so. The players just have to do their job each and every week like the rest of us have to.

[LostDoggy]

How ever you wanna paint the picture, we lost to a side that hasnt won a game in melborne for 2 years. I would of thought that says it all. What's this 2nd half good effort rubbish....

They have no incentive to finsih high up the bottom 8

I have to agree TAMA, my impression of the rocket era is that we are no longer to accept mediocrity. We are so much better than what we showed in the first half and we proved it in the second half.

Injuries rubbish - we showed it in the second half that our team was better than theirs.

Training regime rubbish - if we were tired we wouldn't be able to destroy the opposition by 10 goals in the second half, we would be even flatter.

No bloody excuses dogs, we need to beat first Brisbane and then at least one of Cats n Pies to make the 4; and we do want to make the four, play the saints if we have to, beat them and have a rest.

If my boss told me that if I worked extra hard for the next 4 weeks then I could have a week off then I would bust a gut.

Or would we prefer to be bundled out of the final in the first week?:mad:

[LostDoggy]

I am starting to think the maybe some players just don't care. Not all because that would be ridiculous but maybe the team does carry a few blokes each week.

The senior players that I have noticed to be down in the last two weeks.
Lake
Hargrave
Boyd
Cross
Griffen

These guys are usually consistent but are of the pace a little and the results there for every one to see. Unfortunately if these guys drop of our depth is not good enough to cover there poor efforts.

[Stefcep]

Anyway we played shit and copped the defeat we probably deserved. Seeing how we respond next week and for our remaining games will give us a much better idea on where we are heading as yesterdays performance wasn't a true indication of how good a team we are.

heard that phrase all year, and we've had enough games to tell us we are heading: Geelong, St Kilda (twice), Collingwood, all losses. I think if we played Adelaide tomorrow we'd lose. We now know we are: about 5-6th best in the AFL. Where are we heading? With this list, 6th best.

[Mantis]

heard that phrase all year, and we've had enough games to tell us we are heading: Geelong, St Kilda (twice), Collingwood, all losses. I think if we played Adelaide tomorrow we'd lose. We now know we are: about 5-6th best in the AFL. Where are we heading? With this list, 6th best.

Add Higgins, Murphy, Gia & Welsh to the team and we are a top 4 team. (especially the first 3 names)

Do not under-estimate how important it is to have your best players up and going, just ask Geelong.

[LostDog]

Scott Clayton called me today - he is now recruiting fans for the gold coast

[Eade's Enigma]

WAS JUST WONDERING IF AND WHEN THE COACHING STAFF ARE GOING TO TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILTY FOR A GAME PLAN AND FORWARD SETUP THAT JUST DOES NOT WORK AGAINST THE TOP SIDES AND NOW IS NOT WORKING AGAINST THE LOWER SIDES.
JUST LIKE THE LAST THREE YEARS WE LOOK LIKE FADING AWAY IN THE LAST 7 ROUNDS!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[LostDoggy]

Look at moi Bulldogs, look at moi. I've got 2 words for you - WASTED OPPORTUNITIES.

This has been happening all year, how many shots at goal do we need to miss? The Collingwood game - I could quite clearly remember Johnno missing 2 set shots (1st & 4th quarters), Minson kicking into the man on the mark (2nd quarter), and I've blacked out the rest of that games memories. Yesterday was even worse. The big difference was that West Coast capitalised on their forward 50s, we obviously didn't. I hope it's a HUGE wake up call for the boys, and we come out firing the next 3 weeks, and in the finals.

[azabob]

Apology accpeted. ;)

2nd point - Doesn't help when 4 starting forwards are in the sheds.

RE the forwards can someone explain to me why the forwards get sucked up the ground so often? Numerous times yesterday we would gain possesion but would have no one to kick to.

Unsure why they didnt just get Johnson to play from the goal square to give us a target.

[azabob]

Oh but keep giving him a game because he's tall.

GOK can't get a game despite performing week after week, but all these athletes are given a free ride into the team. Surely we need some footballers out there, not just gorillas.


Eade obviously has his "best 22" in his head and wont go outside that unless injuiries happen. So therefore there is no reward for effort for the younger guys coming through.(Unless they can't play, but how do you know if you dont give them a game?)

Was this the case when the wheels started falling off in Sydney?

[anfo27]

look at collingwood or the saints if you dont perform your out, thats how it should be. Big fan of hill but he should of been dropped a month ago, he's form has dropped off big time. Eagleton should be sacked, Everitt traded not up to it mentally, Williams will he ever live up to the hype? Minson will he ever use his big frame up forward & take a mark. i think our team as a whole wont ever have what it takes upstairs to compete with the big guns over the course of 22 games, finals i hope will be a different story.

[Max469]

Terrible game as everyone has said before this.

Disappointing but every year someone gets beaten by the bottom teams in the 2nd half of the season. Not that I am happy it us mind you.

Yes, it was the most disgraceful game I have seen from our boys in a long time. I think I even I could have got a game - at least I turned up.

On Thursday night, Ayce Cordy said the game was played 90% (TCD is was 90% wasn't it?) in the mind. This is true. Unfortunately, our guys don't play with anything over 50%.

They need to start finding their targets, their confidence, believing in themselves and start backing themselves in, like the other teams do.

Too late now to think we can just turn up and play one quarter of the game - sorry guys - game over.

Catch up footy is just not on - if you can catch up from 47 points down in one quarter - imagine what they can do if they played 4 quarters of footy.

We, as supporters want and deserve more - so should the players.

[bulldogtragic]

Still feels just as bad today...

[AndrewP6]

Williams will he ever live up to the hype? Minson will he ever use his big frame up forward & take a mark. i think our team as a whole wont ever have what it takes upstairs to compete with the big guns over the course of 22 games, finals i hope will be a different story.

Not really fair on Tom. He doesn't create the hype, and trying to live up to other people's expectations is a sure way to fail. He has to improve on what the coaches want, and what he knows needs work.

To say we "won't ever have what it takes upstairs" is way too harsh, IMO.

[AndrewP6]

RE the forwards can someone explain to me why the forwards get sucked up the ground so often? Numerous times yesterday we would gain possesion but would have no one to kick to.

Unsure why they didnt just get Johnson to play from the goal square to give us a target.

I've noticed this for much of this season, I reckon. Not sure what the answer is, maybe when we get possession -eg- via a turnover, it's just players not working hard enough to create a forward option. Others might have a more expert view on this.

[Mofra]

Apology accpeted. ;)

Shaddup! :o


2nd point - Doesn't help when 4 starting forwards are in the sheds.
Murphy is a massive loss because he keeps presenting.
However Gia starts on the bench, Higgins rotates through the midfield as well, and Welsh looks done. We really need to find an avenue to goal, because when you are playing a team that has little left to play for, smash them in F50 entries and still lose the game, there is a serious sytemic problem to address.

Hahn might have been wearing camoflage at times because he was hard to spot out there. Johnson plays his heart out but is playing up the ground as he's our only effective HF player at the moment.

[Mantis]

Murphy is a massive loss because he keeps presenting.
However Gia starts on the bench, Higgins rotates through the midfield as well, and Welsh looks done. We really need to find an avenue to goal, because when you are playing a team that has little left to play for, smash them in F50 entries and still lose the game, there is a serious sytemic problem to address.

Hahn might have been wearing camoflage at times because he was hard to spot out there. Johnson plays his heart out but is playing up the ground as he's our only effective HF player at the moment.

Ok I phrased it poorly in reference to Gia, but he is an important player whether he starts on the ground or on the bench. Welsh might look done, but he knows where to lead and would have at the very least given us a target yesterday.

At one stage in the first half I saw Stack, Addison, Hill & Eagleton as our forward targets. Didn't fill me with much hope given their level of experience as forwards or inability to play the role the team requires.

[cambo]

look at collingwood or the saints if you dont perform your out, thats how it should be. Big fan of hill but he should of been dropped a month ago, he's form has dropped off big time. Eagleton should be sacked, Everitt traded not up to it mentally, Williams will he ever live up to the hype? Minson will he ever use his big frame up forward & take a mark. i think our team as a whole wont ever have what it takes upstairs to compete with the big guns over the course of 22 games, finals i hope will be a different story.

You have hit the nail on the head, could not agree with you anymore! well said

[anfo27]

Not really fair on Tom. He doesn't create the hype, and trying to live up to other people's expectations is a sure way to fail. He has to improve on what the coaches want, and what he knows needs work.

To say we "won't ever have what it takes upstairs" is way too harsh, IMO.

I know i might be harsh on the kid & I'm hoping he will get a lot better with playing week in wek out over a 18 month period. But my point is when ever you hear someone talk about the kid within the club they talk him up as the saviour & it is unfair on the kid cause he doesn't ask for it but I just don't see it. He got smashed by Kennedy yesterday, smashed by Walker of Adelaide & got his pants pulled down by Nathan Thompson at Werribee the week before the Collingwood game. I just very worried with what I'm seeing from the young man, I really hope he proves me wrong.

Our mental strength is piss weak. The big test against the saints a few weeks ago was a perfect example. The amount of basic skill errors & fumbles all comes down to mentally being ready to play and they clearly were not. The saints have not got a better 22 than us but mentally the gap is huge. Our form over the last 2 weeks is another example.

[Mantis]

I know i might be harsh on the kid & I'm hoping he will get a lot better with playing week in wek out over a 18 month period. But my point is when ever you hear someone talk about the kid within the club they talk him up as the saviour & it is unfair on the kid cause he doesn't ask for it but I just don't see it. He got smashed by Kennedy yesterday, smashed by Walker of Adelaide & got his pants pulled down by Nathan Thompson at Werribee the week before the Collingwood game. I just very worried with what I'm seeing from the young man, I really hope he proves me wrong.



He did?

Can you let me know how & why Thompson smashed him in this game you talk about?

[LostDoggy]

I know i might be harsh on the kid & I'm hoping he will get a lot better with playing week in wek out over a 18 month period. But my point is when ever you hear someone talk about the kid within the club they talk him up as the saviour & it is unfair on the kid cause he doesn't ask for it but I just don't see it. He got smashed by Kennedy yesterday, smashed by Walker of Adelaide & got his pants pulled down by Nathan Thompson at Werribee the week before the Collingwood game. I just very worried with what I'm seeing from the young man, I really hope he proves me wrong.

Our mental strength is piss weak. The big test against the saints a few weeks ago was a perfect example. The amount of basic skill errors & fumbles all comes down to mentally being ready to play and they clearly were not. The saints have not got a better 22 than us but mentally the gap is huge. Our form over the last 2 weeks is another example.

He also beat Franklin down in Tasmania last season, he definitely has the talent.

[Rocco Jones]

He did?

Can you let me know how & why Thompson smashed him in this game you talk about?

From memory the reports I read apparently Werribee went to him all day and he got a couple of goals on him from frees, gimmes and unstoppable passes. IIRC he was only on him for a half or so and kicked about 4. Tom was just coming back from injury and the game was mainly to gain match fitness.

[Mantis]

From memory the reports I read apparently Werribee went to him all day and he got a couple of goals on him from frees, gimmes and unstoppable passes. IIRC he was only on him for a half or so and kicked about 4. Tom was just coming back from injury and the game was mainly to gain match fitness.

I know the answers (and yours are semi-correct), I just wanted to know if the poster I quoted did too.

[Rocco Jones]

I know the answers (and yours are semi-correct), I just wanted to know if the poster I quoted did too.

Yeah, I knew that too! I just wanted to inform my fellow posters because it seemed like the guy you posted really didn't know the situation.

Semi-correct? Please inform me now. Oh how ironic!

[anfo27]

He also beat Franklin down in Tasmania last season, he definitely has the talent.

I agree with you there. He showed something last year but this season the kid has shown me nothing and its frustrating.

[anfo27]

He did?

Can you let me know how & why Thompson smashed him in this game you talk about?

I wasn't at the game so i dont know what exactly happened. I heard he kicked more than 4 on him & anyway Thompson is an old hack. And Thompson didn't have a glowing report of the kid on radio.

[mjp]

Ive read some seriously poor posts in my time on football forums, this one may just take the cake as the worst.:o
Fair enough.



We can't beat a side that's tanking and hasn't won a game in melbourne in their last 19 attempts.

Yes it's hard to win every week and we hardly do that, yet we lost to a team who really gains no advantage by winning.

What a joke, we find a way to get high enough to smell the summit, then we look down and realise we are afraid of heights, It's our trademark.

Actually, we kind of do win every week. Have a look at the history of the season. In recent times Geelong beat us - missed shot after the siren - and St Kilda beat us. I said this already I know - but all I can do is repeat myself.

That is kind of it for the past 3 months. We have sat in the top 4 for the last 18 months...not really the sign of a team scared of success.




So spare us you competitive sport dribble and look at the cold hard facts, we let a side who is tanking kick away to a 47 point lead.

prem sides dont do that

Premiership sides? Really. Look at the history books - there is an upset victory against the eventual premiers almost EVERY year. Just for fun go back and look at how many games the Lions won during each of their 3 consecutive premiership seasons, then come back and repeat your statement. Dont let the MYTH of what premiership teams do and don't do confuse reality...actually, you aren't Robert Walls by any chance are you?

It is very hard to win every week - and your comment about 'competitive sport dribble' only reinforces the fact that you simply dont understand what it is all about. Playing footy is very hard. Getting a kick is hard. Winning every week is almost impossible.

This is probably the second worst post you have ever read...fine.

[Topdog]

Premiership sides? Really. Look at the history books - there is an upset victory against the eventual premiers almost EVERY year. Just for fun go back and look at how many games the Lions won during each of their 3 consecutive premiership seasons, then come back and repeat your statement. Dont let the MYTH of what premiership teams do and don't do confuse reality...actually, you aren't Robert Walls by any chance are you?


How about keeping it simpler than and saying really good sides don't get down by 40+ points in the first half in 5 games a season? I agree it is hard to stay up for every game but we need to get better at this.

[Stefcep]

Add Higgins, Murphy, Gia & Welsh to the team and we are a top 4 team. (especially the first 3 names)

Do not under-estimate how important it is to have your best players up and going, just ask Geelong.

Who have we beaten in the top 5 or 6?

[Mofra]

Ok I phrased it poorly in reference to Gia, but he is an important player whether he starts on the ground or on the bench. Welsh might look done, but he knows where to lead and would have at the very least given us a target yesterday.
Gia is posibly our best deliverer of the ball into the F50 (Aker may argue) and yes a fit Welsh would have helped, but I'm not sure we'll ever see a fit Welsh again.


At one stage in the first half I saw Stack, Addison, Hill & Eagleton as our forward targets. Didn't fill me with much hope given their level of experience as forwards or inability to play the role the team requires.
Agree with this.
Hill can be a forward - Stack goes missing even at VFL level so needs more support. Addison, despite last week, I'm not convinced he's great overhead and plays better when given a more negative role (ie needs to be given a task). Eagle is the worst overhead mark on our list and has no right foot so wont manufacture goals.

[Mantis]

Who have we beaten in the top 5 or 6?

No-one, happy?

Geelong beat us by 2 points, Collingwood by 1pt.... In those games we showed that we can compete with the best sides in the competition.

[Mofra]

I wasn't at the game so i dont know what exactly happened. I heard he kicked more than 4 on him & anyway Thompson is an old hack. And Thompson didn't have a glowing report of the kid on radio.
Thompson would have been our no 1 forward yesterday. He'd be in our current best 22 over the past month, and probably longer.
I'm sure most fit VFL players would beat an unfit AFL player coming back off injury anyway.

[anfo27]

Thompson would have been our no 1 forward yesterday. He'd be in our current best 22 over the past month, and probably longer.
I'm sure most fit VFL players would beat an unfit AFL player coming back off injury anyway.

Thompson would not be anywhere near fit, the guy had a heart operation or something 2-3 months ago. Lets not hide from the obvious, are you happy with Tom's performances Mofra?

[Mofra]

Thompson would not be anywhere near fit, the guy had a heart operation or something 2-3 months ago. Lets not hide from the obvious, are you happy with Tom's performances Mofra?
I'd always like our players to be better.

I'm certainly not going to slag a guy off about a performance in a match I haven't even seen, especially when he was coming back from injury.

[anfo27]

I'd always like our players to be better.

I'm certainly not going to slag a guy off about a performance in a match I haven't even seen, especially when he was coming back from injury.

I want the boys to play better to mate but if a guy is not pulling his wait I'll say so and tommy aint. Our team is not good enough to carry passengers.

[Mofra]

I want the boys to play better to mate but if a guy is not pulling his wait I'll say so and tommy aint. Our team is not good enough to carry passengers.
We need a second tall defender. Tommy was nowhere near our worst. Who goes to Bradshaw next week? Everitt would get killed.
Stack was by a mile, yet I haven't heard a peep about him.
Hill can't body on body mark, yet we keep kicking to him this way.
Hahn must have been wearing camoflage for sections of the match, was nowhere near it.

[Mantis]

I want the boys to play better to mate but if a guy is not pulling his wait I'll say so and tommy aint. Our team is not good enough to carry passengers.

Any chance you can stop butchering the English language and stop slagging off the players?

Yep you are new here, but you won't make too many friends and your posts earn any respect if you keep up with this all guns blazing attitude.

[Mantis]

I wasn't at the game so i dont know what exactly happened. I heard he kicked more than 4 on him & anyway Thompson is an old hack. And Thompson didn't have a glowing report of the kid on radio.

Just as I thought.... NFI.

[Remi Moses]

Thompson would have been our no 1 forward yesterday. He'd be in our current best 22 over the past month, and probably longer.
I'm sure most fit VFL players would beat an unfit AFL player coming back off injury anyway.

That's silly if Thompson was still able to contribute he'd be still at Norf.:confused:Thompson's done

[Mofra]

That's silly if Thompson was still able to contribute he'd be still at Norf.:confused:Thompson's done
They would have expected Hansen & Tarrant to be fit, and Hale to be contributing.

[anfo27]

Any chance you can stop butchering the English language and stop slagging off the players?

Yep you are new here, but you won't make too many friends and your posts earn any respect if you keep up with this all guns blazing attitude.

I was educated in St. Albans Mantis so I'm sorry if my english is not up to your standards.

Guns blazing attitude? I made a comment about a guy who is not playing well, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to sugar coat it for you.

[Mantis]

Guns blazing attitude? I made a comment about a guy who is not playing well, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to sugar coat it for you.

Every post I have read of yours so far has been negative, yep we were shit yesterday, but at some point you are going to have to get over it. As others have said the sky isn't about to fall in and the boys get a chance to redeem themselves this week. One poor performance does not make us a poor team.

And there is no point sugar coating it for me, my feelings are pretty well known around here.

[anfo27]

Every post I have read of yours so far has been negative, yep we were shit yesterday, but at some point you are going to have to get over it. As others have said the sky isn't about to fall in and the boys get a chance to redeem themselves this week. One poor performance does not make us a poor team.

And there is no point sugar coating it for me, my feelings are pretty well known around here.

Never said we are a poor team Mantis. I think on our day we are a contender no question about that. I only question there mental toughness, thats the only part of our game that i worry about. But I know we can prove everyone wrong in September.

[The Underdog]

I want the boys to play better to mate but if a guy is not pulling his wait I'll say so and tommy aint. Our team is not good enough to carry passengers.

But who takes the 2nd tall back position?
There's not really anybody else even close to ready. He's not been great but we may as well give him a shot at running into some form at that spot in the one's, seeing as nobody else available can.

[mjp]

That's rubbish mjp. We ALWAYS complain about Crossy handballing backwards, Hilly doing what he does, Eagleton being a dickhead, Johnno and Hargrave kicking to no one, Griffen playing like a headless chook etc. whether we win or lose. You've been part of this board for yonks, you should know that these faults HAVE been called to account every week (all career!).

Well, go back and look at threads after we win and after we lose...the tone is remarkably different. Sure Eagleton gets crucified every week, every month or so there is a thread about why Crossy doesn't kick more goals (he kicked a very good one yesterday, not a SINGLE positive comment about the work he must be putting in) etc. If you think the post win/post-loss threads are the same you are wrong.

Further more - too many people want it both ways. They want all the good without the bad - you expect all of the good parts of Griffen (eg.read the whole 'Griffen to the midfield thread') yet wont allow or accept that there is a negative to him (and to every single player on the list).

We cant replace Crossy - but he is who he is. Without him, we lose part of our identity - but you have to cop the good with the bad. As an aside, I have no doubt he is under instruction to handball whenever possible...so he is being criticised for doing what he has been told. Just like the Cooney comment - if you are going to bag his kicking - FINE. Take the goals he kicks/creates off the scoreboard. Too many people just aren't prepared to do that though - these so called supporters who post on here and expect perfection from everyone...

If we have people suggesting Johnno is going to change after 300+ games, then they are simply delusional. Decide what you are prepared to tolerate and move on - I would suggest that for the most part the good outweighs the bad.



Every team knows these faults, and the better ones have always exploited it. In fact, the fact that these faults exist means that effort HAS TO always be 100%, or else we lose.

The frustration is that:
a. the coaching panel doesn't compensate for these flaws by dropping players or changing the system to suit (ie. if many players 'blaze away' then a focal forward is an absolute necessity, otherwise, how about teaching players to kick to a leading player?), many of these players don't learn from their mistakes but are never held to account.. when was the last time Hahn was dropped for being useless?

b. the INTENSITY/EFFORT is not consistent, regardless of output. Who cares if Hill can't kick straight if he bloody puts in an honest effort? Instead, we get this waffle week after week. Three good games at the start of the year do not a career make.


Love the plan or loathe it, agree with the structure or hate it - it kind of doesn't matter by this stage of the season - we are who we are.

You say the coaching panel dont drop players - well, fair enough I suppose. But to use your example, if Hahn is dropped, who plays the stay at home forward role in the forward structure? Who does it? There is no-one else to play that role, and if the coaches believe in the plan (as they should) then he has to play. I have been more critical of Hahn than anyone on the board, but even I have to admit it was only two weeks ago he kicked 5 goals and was the difference between the two sides.

If you drop someone, someone else has to play. And like I have been pointing out for 2 years, we DONT HAVE ANY DEPTH. What we have is a group of players (from about number 15 ==> 35 on the list) who really haven't done much to distinguish themselves in any way...that is why we end up with so many 'deckchairs on the titanic' selections.

I said at the start of the year that Addison, Everitt and Gia would determine our season. I kind of plucked Addison and Everitt from the list a bit - the point was we needed a couple of the youngsters to really take a stand. I think Ward has done that. No-one else has (though I have faith in Reid). The rest of the group are not taking their chances - hence the coaches believe that Eagleton continues to be a better bet than the younger group. Why? Because he has at least proved it at some point...



The fact that the Dogs won the second half by ten goals is - instead of an excuse, as you've put it - an indictment on the pathetic collective attitude of this team.. what, because it's West Coast we don't turn up for half a game? What kind of professionalism is there? If my staff put in an effort for only half the time I pay them for they wouldn't be employed very long. The fact that we won the second half by ten goals means that this should have been a comfortable percentage booster instead of an embarassing loss.

I don't know how you can say that the effort was poor for half a game yet still say that you're confident that they'll show up in the finals? Bad habits don't disappear overnight -- and if our first final against Hawthorn last year is any evidence, we're in for another disappointing September.

This team has always been liable to go missing, and no whitewashing of their second half performance can hide that fact.

Pathetic.

It is how you respond in tough times that proves who you are - not what you do when things are rolling along. Backs against the wall, they responded. That is a simple fact. The first half was terrible - yep, acknowledged. But if you hold this to be the truth about them then you must EQUALLY say that the fact that they will fight tooth and nail when they are down and the odds are against them is the truth. But you wont do this - you say that the poor effort represents their behavior, but refuse to say that the fightback does.

'This team' has been liable to go missing? No they haven't - they have lost 3 games in 3 months - and two of those were by less than a kick.

They are not pathetic - not even close. The efforts in the first half were not up to the standards that they themselves had set...they tried to put it right. That is to be admired.

[anfo27]

But who takes the 2nd tall back position?
There's not really anybody else even close to ready. He's not been great but we may as well give him a shot at running into some form at that spot in the one's, seeing as nobody else available can.

I'm not saying drop Tommy; just saying I'm dissappointed with his development. Just watching him this year i don't think he has improved enough. We don't have another option there Morris just doesn't have the size.

[G-Mo77]

I haven't even seen the game, should I watch it? Very busy weekend so I'm glad I missed it.

What is the most disappointing thing about dropping this game is that it has made it a pretty tough ask to hang onto a top 4 spot. We set up our destiny early on last year and pretty much rode that into the Finals now this year we have a real battle on our hands. We have to play 3 of the top 5 sides in the final 3 weeks. Win all or at least 2 of those we'll keep stay in the 4. Lose 2 or all we'll be playing in an Elimination Final.

Next week is now a huge one! If they can't get motivated for this game and pull out a win I doubt they'll make top 4 or do much more come finals time. It's time to prove ourselves over the next 3 weeks.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You say the coaching panel dont drop players - well, fair enough I suppose. But to use your example, if Hahn is dropped, who plays the stay at home forward role in the forward structure? Who does it? There is no-one else to play that role, and if the coaches believe in the plan (as they should) then he has to play. I have been more critical of Hahn than anyone on the board, but even I have to admit it was only two weeks ago he kicked 5 goals and was the difference between the two sides.

I agree with what you say for the most part MJP, but there's a few things I disagree with including the above. I understand the sentiment of not having anyone else to bring in and play that role, but the fact is - besides 2 or 3 games this entire season - Hahn has been a liability. I was a huge fan of his prior to this seaso, but he's had a horrible year. His bag v Fremantle came about fairly easy. I think he might've played OK against North the next week, and obviously the Essendon game was a standout, but aside from that he's been poor.

Hahn's inability to apply pressure and win a contest has been costly. He is out-muscled and out-marked far too easily this year. It seems as though he can't break the tackles like he used to, is rarely in the 'right spot' at the drop of the ball and allows his defender to run right off him. Why hasn't he been dropped once? A 'statement' needed to be made much earleir in the year to him that he needed to lift his output. It wouldn't of mattered who we brought in - they couldn't of done a worse job than Mitch. I'm not a fan of Skipper but to switch these two may have awoken Hahn at the VERY least. Nothing was tried and as a result we're none the better.

You have to at least try and find an alternative. Whether that's replacing him for a couple of weeks or whether it's just telling him to go and find some touch/form at VFL.


The rest of the group are not taking their chances - hence the coaches believe that Eagleton continues to be a better bet than the younger group. Why? Because he has at least proved it at some point...

The only thing Eagleton has proved is that he cannot perform under ANY pressure. How many times must he prove this before the coaching panel decides to invest their time in developing another player? They might not be ready - but I would much prefer to develop a young player rather than waste time on a player who continually lets the side down. His football over the last 6-8 weeks has been garbage. It's beyond my comprehension how he still gets a game.


It is how you respond in tough times that proves who you are - not what you do when things are rolling along. Backs against the wall, they responded. That is a simple fact. The first half was terrible - yep, acknowledged. But if you hold this to be the truth about them then you must EQUALLY say that the fact that they will fight tooth and nail when they are down and the odds are against them is the truth. But you wont do this - you say that the poor effort represents their behavior, but refuse to say that the fightback does.

They never should of been in this position to begin with. If they were able to fight back and win, perhaps people would be talking a little more about the 'come back'. However, we lost to a bottom four side and were smashed in the first half. Even when we did hit the front, we couldn't topple them.

I'm sorry - but they shouldn't be getting a pat on the back for coming back and losing to West Coast. They deserve everything they get for such a performance with so much writing on it.

Nobody cares if you fight back and lose, especially when it's:
a) The third time you've lost under a kick and still haven't learnt from poor starts.
&
b) Against a side completely out of finals contention.


'This team' has been liable to go missing? No they haven't - they have lost 3 games in 3 months - and two of those were by less than a kick.

Apart from the Hawks game we haven't come close to playing four quarters for the entire year. Too often we give away 5-6 goals in quick succession. We learned that you can't afford to do this against ANY side, let alone quality ones. The team has gone missing in all but one game played this year.


They are not pathetic - not even close. The efforts in the first half were not up to the standards that they themselves had set...they tried to put it right. That is to be admired.

I really don't understand why they should be admired for getting themselves back into a game against a bottom four side, and still lose.

You can't set your sights on making finals and winning Premierships, and then when you lose to an average side, 'admire' your efforts. I thought we passed this mentality a few years ago?

I understand you're trying to give a balanced view but after Saturday's performance particularly, I'm afraid you can't make any excuses or admire anything they did. Quite simply - it wasn't anywhere near good enough.

[LostDoggy]

Fair enough.



Actually, we kind of do win every week. Have a look at the history of the season. In recent times Geelong beat us - missed shot after the siren - and St Kilda beat us. I said this already I know - but all I can do is repeat myself.

That is kind of it for the past 3 months. We have sat in the top 4 for the last 18 months...not really the sign of a team scared of success.




Premiership sides? Really. Look at the history books - there is an upset victory against the eventual premiers almost EVERY year. Just for fun go back and look at how many games the Lions won during each of their 3 consecutive premiership seasons, then come back and repeat your statement. Dont let the MYTH of what premiership teams do and don't do confuse reality...actually, you aren't Robert Walls by any chance are you?

It is very hard to win every week - and your comment about 'competitive sport dribble' only reinforces the fact that you simply dont understand what it is all about. Playing footy is very hard. Getting a kick is hard. Winning every week is almost impossible.

This is probably the second worst post you have ever read...fine.


What is succuesful about making the top 4?? The only sucess that maters is what happes once you make the top 4 and we have only achieved this once in our existence.

Recent prem sides, you say..... I can guarantee you we won't see one of those sides giving up 30 point head starts in most of their games and allowing opposition teams to kick 6 or 7 unanswered goals in 5 minutes with sickening regularity.

I agree it's with you that it's hard to win, but are you overlooking who we lost to and the manner in which we lost the game. The manner in which we lost the game is a perfect example of how we play our footy, most times we can overrun a side and win, which can mask the fact that we are nowhere near a 4 quarter side.

At our best I reckon we can match it with anyone, the problem is, our best is so far away from what is being displayed that I doubt it can be regained this year. WCE highlighted and made obvious what we have been able to cover up this year, poor disposal into half forward through lack of geniune options, suspect decsion making and a work ethic that is always left to too few in our side.

Our structures are flawed and many of our good players cannot cope with a hard tag. Throw in a few 30+ year old guys and no tall options I fear that we will fall short, literally.

Was I harsh on your post, yes and I apologise. I read back over it and I could of used less abrasive language but thats what I get for posting straight after a loss.

What I wont apologise for is disagreeing with the premise of your post which suggests that we are going well because we can respond to adversity. Our side needs adversity like a drug before it can switch on and that is not a good sign.

[LostDoggy]

They never should of been in this position to begin with. If they were able to fight back and win, perhaps people would be talking a little more about the 'come back'. However, we lost to a bottom four side and were smashed in the first half. Even when we did hit the front, we couldn't topple them.

I'm sorry - but they shouldn't be getting a pat on the back for coming back and losing to West Coast. They deserve everything they get for such a performance with so much writing on it.

Nobody cares if you fight back and lose, especially when it's:
a) The third time you've lost under a kick and still haven't learnt from poor starts.
&
b) Against a side completely out of finals contention.


Too often we give away 5-6 goals in quick succession. We learned that you can't afford to do this against ANY side, let alone quality ones. The team has gone missing in all but one game played this year.



I really don't understand why they should be admired for getting themselves back into a game against a bottom four side, and still lose.

You can't set your sights on making finals and winning Premierships, and then when you lose to an average side, 'admire' your efforts. I thought we passed this mentality a few years ago?

I understand you're trying to give a balanced view but after Saturday's performance particularly, I'm afraid you can't make any excuses or admire anything they did. Quite simply - it wasn't anywhere near good enough.

Someone needs to bottle this post for vintage.

We are not a bad side but we have a lot of very bad qualities, qualities which don't bode well in finals. We have every right to expect more form our club especially given what was on the line and the calibre of opposition we were facing.

In 19 attempts they haven't won in Melb, yet we let them get 46 points up!!!

Sure it's not the end of the world, however, finals are only weeks away and at present we are nowhere near it. I'd like to think we can switch on and turn it around, play the sort of footy that was starting to change the preceptions of so many. Tough, hard, contested footy.... This is not the sort of game we are plaing at the moment.

[Mofra]

I want the boys to play better to mate but if a guy is not pulling his wait I'll say so and tommy aint. Our team is not good enough to carry passengers.


I'm not saying drop Tommy; just saying I'm dissappointed with his development. Just watching him this year i don't think he has improved enough. We don't have another option there Morris just doesn't have the size.
Make up your mind! He stays in the team but is a passenger so should be out, but we need him in. That's your argument?

[Desipura]

I do not mean to say I told you so however a few weeks back, I stated we need to tinker with our game plan otherwise we will get the same result in finals as last year (might be worse). I shall leave that to the powers that be..........

[Mantis]

I do not mean to say I told you so however a few weeks back, I stated we need to tinker with our game plan otherwise we will get the same result in finals as last year (might be worse). I shall leave that to the powers that be..........

I must have missed that post. Can you enlighten me with what changes should be made keeping in mind the personnel that was missing on Saturday.

(Sorry to make you go over old ground)

[Desipura]

I must have missed that post. Can you enlighten me with what changes should be made keeping in mind the personnel that was missing on Saturday.

(Sorry to make you go over old ground) No, you did not miss it, in fact you were one of the replies I received.
Again you will disagree however Williams was getting comprehensively beaten by Kennedy, there was an opportunity to say to him "go forward, back your instincts and run run run". He could not have done any worse playing forward. I know you will say, "he is struggling down back, how is he going to perform up forward". Not comparing the 2 however I have not yet seen Tippett play down back, perhaps Williams will never be a backman?

There was an opportunity to play Lake forward for at least a quarter (other than Kennedy) they did not have another dominant big man in their forward line.
Why does Malthouse have the guts to play 3 youngsters in a huge game a few weeks back yet we either do not have the faith to address a weakness in our structure or the youngsters are not ready. If they are not ready, when will they be? Mick has often said with youngsters it is only a birth certificate, he backs them in.
Only time we give tall youngsters a go to address a key position deficiency are in practise matches (Mulligan played against Sydney and did alright by all reports).

[Mantis]

No, you did not miss it, in fact you were one of the replies I received.
Again you will disagree however Williams was getting comprehensively beaten by Kennedy, there was an opportunity to say to him "go forward, back your instincts and run run run". He could not have done any worse playing forward. I know you will say, "he is struggling down back, how is he going to perform up forward". Not comparing the 2 however I have not yet seen Tippett play down back, perhaps Williams will never be a backman?

There was an opportunity to play Lake forward for at least a quarter (other than Kennedy) they did not have another dominant big man in their forward line.
Why does Malthouse have the guts to play 3 youngsters in a huge game a few weeks back yet we either do not have the faith to address a weakness in our structure or the youngsters are not ready. If they are not ready, when will they be? Mick has often said with youngsters it is only a birth certificate, he backs them in.
Only time we give tall youngsters a go to address a key position deficiency are in practise matches (Mulligan played against Sydney and did alright by all reports).

My bad.

Our tall youngsters are not ready.

Grant - He can't run out a game at VFL, how will he make an impact at AFL level. After the Carlton game (his first) the kid was distraught when realised just how far away he is from having his body ready for senior action.

Boumann - Clearly not up to it yet. Leads to the wrong spots even at VFL level when up forward and gets pushed around too easily in defence. Not the answer yet.

Cordy - Not ready for 2 years.

Mulligan - Shown promise, but is always injured.

O'Shea - Injured all year.

Roughead - Injuries have hurt, might play a role next year.

Everitt - Hasn't improved.

Did I miss anyone?

[Desipura]

Boumann - Clearly not up to it yet. Leads to the wrong spots even at VFL level when up forward and gets pushed around too easily in defence. Not the answer yet.

You could insert Williams instead of Boumann and it sounds like the same player.
How about Williams playing forward last week? And Lake for a quarter?
Having said that, if O'Shea was fit, he may well have played some games this year.

[Mofra]

Boumann - Clearly not up to it yet. Leads to the wrong spots even at VFL level when up forward and gets pushed around too easily in defence. Not the answer yet.

You could insert Williams instead of Boumann and it sounds like the same player.

Not from what I've seen. Boumann's body positioning looks good to me, he's just a bit light to play AFL at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

Another year of mediocrity; believing the hype about ourselves and our "potential". Every year it's another excuse, another fall-back. Oh, no key forward. Oh, injuries. Oh travel. Oh under-resourced. Oh under-financed. Clubs in far more perilous financial positions than us have managed success - North Melbourne is an example of this. The happy-clappy brigade on this forum are once again way too soft in their assessments. Way too forgiving, and have their estimations of our playing stocks set way too high. If you're not cynical about our club, where it's been, where it's at and where it's going - then you're living in a fantasy land. Bornadog, mjp and the rest of you - stop making excuses for the team and the coach. If it's not "players missing" it would be something else for you happy-clappy, "everything's OK" muppets. You talk about how 'valiant' our comeback was. We shouldn't have been in that position - and every single player in that 22 knew that when they walked off on Saturday. Valiant comebacks mean SFA in the grand scheme of things. And we've been in this position now several times this season (Pies, Cats and WCE). Well done Bulldogs Bite on a good post, one of the few good ones in this thread.

The game against WCE summed up our inherently insipid culture. "Almost there" & "so close". Not ****ing good enough. The past few years we've had the pundits contantly wax lyrical about the Dogs. "Great side, lots of potential, could go all the way", etc etc. And each year, we as a club (and especially those within the club) fall victim to believing this hype, and never actually end up enacting it.

We played like a side that simply did not have the desire, culturally, to want to win. Against a side missing its marquee performers (Cox and Kerr), and a side that had nothing to play for. Ourselves on the other hand, still have that elusive goal of a Prem...feck even a grand final would be a refreshing change. Something our opponents on Saturday have achieved on numerous occasions in their short-lived AFL existence. Cox and Kerr are just as important to WCE as Gia/Higgins are to us, if not MORE. We had EVERYTHING to play for. To run into some good form before finals, to take confidence into the remaining three H&A games; all of which will be tough as hell. But instead, we fall over when it matters most.

This year we've had only a small group of players that have been 100% committed and desperate for just about every game. You can count them on one hand; Matthew Boyd, Liam Picken, Harbrow, Lake and Hargrave. The rest of our team have been inconsistent and unreliable over not just this year, but the past few years when we've been touted as 'contenders'. Players like Eagleton, Hahn, Minson, Hill - who have been getting extended runs in the senior side and have not been taught a lesson by having their inconsistent efforts punished. Complacency has set in, and this means standards drop.

Then there is the game plan. Oh yes, our "game plan". Having a running game is all well and good. At times it can be entertaining, yes entertaining. If I want ****ing entertainment - I'll go watch a movie or I'll go to the circus. I want results, I want wins. If that means playing outdated football that involves kicking to contests and/or having people in front of the ball (instead of 21 of the 22 being behind it) - so ****ing be it. If something isn't working, or if the opposition have figured us out - it's up to Eade to make changes accordingly. Tactically he has been nothing short of inept for most of the year. We've beaten some teams, but no one of any substance. In the one game where we came close (Geelong); we were playing catch-up the whole game because tactically Eade was slow to react.

ON NOTICE:

- Smorgon (if you didn't stick the boot up Eade's arse on Saturday, you deserve to take a long look at yourself; demand improvement constantly and demand changes)
- Eade (You've had a fair bit of time now to develop a Plan B)
- Hahn (should be dropped immediately)
- Eagleton (should be dropped immediately)
- Hill (lacking consistency and effort on a weekly basis, 2's for a few weeks)
- Minson (take grabs or **** off; Skipper deserves a chance)
- Addison (not good enough for AFL. Full. Stop.)
- Cooney (get your head out of your arse boy)
- Cross (work-rate is down, one good year doesn't make an elite midfielder)
- Everitt (you've been given the #3, and I'm still wondering why)
- Welsh (join the long list of reject spuds we've signed over the years, you play 1 good game in 5 - not good enough)
- Williams (figure out what you want to do with your life; you're looking like a waste of space)
- Griffen (start performing consistently or I'll really begin to believe Tambling is a better player than you)

Robert Murphy. Didn't even play against West Coast, but doesn't escape my wrath in any case. Stop writing wanky articles and focus on your football. I'm sick of how our players get distracted with off-field stuff. You're not James Hird. You've strung together a handful of games in the past couple seasons and you go missing at crucial moments when you do actually play. Murphy, Gia and a few others get a free ride from way too many posters on this forum. They are part of the leadership group and it's time we demand more. They are the ones setting the example to other players.

[ratsmac]

He beat Nic Nat literally every time they were up against each other.

Nic Nat has only played about 5 games of footy.....

[Mofra]

- Hahn (should be dropped immediately)
- Eagleton (should be dropped immediately)
- Hill (lacking consistency and effort on a weekly basis, 2's for a few weeks)
- Minson (take grabs or **** off; Skipper deserves a chance)
- Addison (not good enough for AFL. Full. Stop.)
- Cooney (get your head out of your arse boy)
- Cross (work-rate is down, one good year doesn't make an elite midfielder)
- Everitt (you've been given the #3, and I'm still wondering why)
- Welsh (join the long list of reject spuds we've signed over the years, you play 1 good game in 5 - not good enough)
- Williams (figure out what you want to do with your life; you're looking like a waste of space)
- Griffen (start performing consistently or I'll really begin to believe Tambling is a better player than you)
a. So who do you replace each of these players with next week?


Robert Murphy. Didn't even play against West Coast, but doesn't escape my wrath in any case. Stop writing wanky articles and focus on your football. I'm sick of how our players get distracted with off-field stuff. You're not James Hird. You've strung together a handful of games in the past couple seasons and you go missing at crucial moments when you do actually play. Murphy, Gia and a few others get a free ride from way too many posters on this forum. They are part of the leadership group and it's time we demand more. They are the ones setting the example to other players.
Yep, that 1 hour per week Murph takes out to write an article must really be affecting his football:rolleyes:

Gia is underrated by even our own fans so I'm not sure demanding more will make any on field difference.

[Topdog]

Nic Nat has only played about 5 games of footy.....

And Tom only 30. Nic Nat's every move is praised yet he was beaten on almost every occasion by Tom who had a bad game.

[Topdog]

Just like the Cooney comment - if you are going to bag his kicking - FINE. Take the goals he kicks/creates off the scoreboard. Too many people just aren't prepared to do that though - these so called supporters who post on here and expect perfection from everyone...

This comment is rubbish IMO mjp. Cooney's goals come from him running and working hard (which he does quite often) on Saturday he didn't even take 2 steps before kicking it. 2 of his kicks were perhaps in the worst 10 kicks I have seen all time in the AFL. That one in the last quarter where he took 1 step from a mark and torped it about 30m straight to a WC player should be replayed to him this week with a sign over the top of it saying "Bullshit"

[Ozza]

ON NOTICE:

- Smorgon (if you didn't stick the boot up Eade's arse on Saturday, you deserve to take a long look at yourself; demand improvement constantly and demand changes)

Robert Murphy. Didn't even play against West Coast, but doesn't escape my wrath in any case. Stop writing wanky articles and focus on your football. I'm sick of how our players get distracted with off-field stuff. You're not James Hird. You've strung together a handful of games in the past couple seasons and you go missing at crucial moments when you do actually play. Murphy, Gia and a few others get a free ride from way too many posters on this forum. They are part of the leadership group and it's time we demand more. They are the ones setting the example to other players.

Firstly - pretty harsh to have Smorgon 'on notice'. He has been wonderful for the club and is not resposnsible for the footy side of things. If you want to criticise Smorgo when we lose - you'd wanna be giving him a wrap when we play well also.

Completely disagree on Murph and Gia. Murphy is a proven performer - and I think he still plays well against the good sides. Getting injured so many times has been unlucky - but hardly his fault - and I'm fairly sure the massive commitment of one short article every week isn't affecting his football. You're obviously just tying Gia into this because you don't like him. And thats a pretty petulant attitude really. Gia's professionalism is something we here about all the time - his preparation and application is the reason why he is considered a leader.

[LostDoggy]

Another year of mediocrity;

I didn't want to quote the whole lot but before the nick pickers pick any little tit bit and take it out of contents. I would like to say great post. I feel the same anger and frustration as you. Eade's demeanor at times really infuriates me. Club is going better but on-field its the same old same old.

[Desipura]

I want this pain Im feeling to go away, Saturday cant come around quick enough. A win on Saturday will slightly help followed by a win the following week then another the week after. I will then be able to relax knowing we finished 3rd. Then the nerves start again in the finals........
Why do I put myself through this pain? 31 years of this, I should have learnt by now!

[bulldogtragic]

I want this pain Im feeling to go away, Saturday cant come around quick enough. A win on Saturday will slightly help followed by a win the following week then another the week after. I will then be able to relax knowing we finished 3rd. Then the nerves start again in the finals........
Why do I put myself through this pain? 31 years of this, I should have learnt by now!
Could be worse... We could be members of Richmond:eek:

[LostDoggy]

Could be worse... We could be members of Richmond:eek:

Richmond people can still remember winning a Premiership.

[LostDoggy]

Yep, that 1 hour per week Murph takes out to write an article must really be affecting his football:rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure the club thought it was having an effect on Aker, thus cutting back his media gigs.

[bulldogtragic]

Richmond people can still remember winning a Premiership.
But i can remember them spitting on their coach, dumping crap on the clubs front door, overlloking Pavlich, Roughy and Franklin, making horrible trades and being in a constant cycle of self destruction. That might have a more recent flag, but give me this club any day of the week.

[gohardorgohome]

Had half of the first 11 behinds been goals we would have won by five goals.

The players looked very sluggish, and I am sure there was more training load than Eade would have liked made public.

I can only talk from experiances playing paddock footy, that my terrible kicking became worse when fatigued.

I am sure that this may have been a telling case at the start of the game for the doggies. Many of the missed goals and missed target kicks were from tired legs.

[The Pie Man]

I hope I don't get labelled with the rose coloured glasses here, but sheesh it's Round 20 and we're 4th.

So it may seem to some of us like we may crumble out of the top 4 and bow out quickly next month, but it hasn't happened yet. Give us a chance to completely eff it up before really sticking the knives in

I believe they've got an opportunity - if the weekend result is more destructive/deflating to the group and we fall away, then I'll get on here and have a crack at em, and then look forward to 2010. But right now, I'm looking forward to the next few weeks where we hopefully cement a top 4 spot and then roll the dice vs St Kilda in week one.

[bulldogtragic]

I hope I don't get labelled with the rose coloured glasses here, but sheesh it's Round 20 and we're 4th.

So it may seem to some of us like we may crumble out of the top 4 and bow out quickly next month, but it hasn't happened yet. Give us a chance to completely eff it up before really sticking the knives in

I believe they've got an opportunity - if the weekend result is more destructive/deflating to the group and we fall away, then I'll get on here and have a crack at em, and then look forward to 2010. But right now, I'm looking forward to the next few weeks where we hopefully cement a top 4 spot and then roll the dice vs St Kilda in week one.
Win all 3 H&A games and we take on Geelong in the 1st week, who we would have beaten two weeks ago. Good shot at a pre-lim in this scenario.

Just have to turn it on, i.e. the team that played against Hawks and Port and keep winning. Simple equation, keep winning and finish top 3 and have a good crack at the flag. Be inconsistent and finish with a lower draft pick. No middle ground.

[The Pie Man]

Win all 3 H&A games and we take on Geelong in the 1st week, who we would have beaten two weeks ago. Good shot at a pre-lim in this scenario.

Just have to turn it on, i.e. the team that played against Hawks and Port and keep winning. Simple equation, keep winning and finish top 3 and have a good crack at the flag. Be inconsistent and finish with a lower draft pick. No middle ground.

True - I think the best we can hope for is 4th, but if we do win all 3 that's exactly where we end up - and then all of a sudden 'no one will want to play the Dogs in September' ;)

[bulldogtragic]

True - I think the best we can hope for is 4th, but if we do win all 3 that's exactly where we end up - and then all of a sudden 'no one will want to play the Dogs in September' ;)
Exactly, it's not rose coloured glasses stuff, it's just whether the players can execute to the best of their abilities and take the opportunity. As you say we are 4th and can get third with massive momentum going into the finals. The boys just need to walk the talk as this side as full capacity and potential can win any game. We just need to wait and see (and hope).

[anfo27]

Win all 3 H&A games and we take on Geelong in the 1st week, who we would have beaten two weeks ago. Good shot at a pre-lim in this scenario.

Just have to turn it on, i.e. the team that played against Hawks and Port and keep winning. Simple equation, keep winning and finish top 3 and have a good crack at the flag. Be inconsistent and finish with a lower draft pick. No middle ground.

Spot on, we want a crack at the cats. I watch the cats on Friday night and that was the worst game i've seen them play in a long time. They have more forward problems than we do.

[AndrewP6]

Dante Hicks... is there anyone at the club you are happy with? Is there anything we do that brings a smile to your face? Why do you even bother "supporting" our club (and I use that word very loosely)?

[AndrewP6]

.
The game against WCE summed up our inherently insipid culture. "Almost there" & "so close". Not ****ing good enough. The past few years we've had the pundits contantly wax lyrical about the Dogs. "Great side, lots of potential, could go all the way", etc etc. And each year, we as a club (and especially those within the club) fall victim to believing this hype, and never actually end up enacting it.

Our culture has turned around noticeably from 2003, when we finished bottom. Smorgo has said several times publicly that the "near enough is good enough" attitude doesn't cut it anymore, and since Eade took over, the club's on-field work has improved. Again, we finished LAST in 2003. We're now heading to the good end of the ladder.


.Complacency has set in, and this means standards drop[/B].

You really think they're content finishing up in the prelim final? Those guys all want to win the big one.


ON NOTICE:

- Smorgon (if you didn't stick the boot up Eade's arse on Saturday, you deserve to take a long look at yourself; demand improvement constantly and demand changes)
- Eade (You've had a fair bit of time now to develop a Plan B)
- Hahn (should be dropped immediately)
- Eagleton (should be dropped immediately)
- Hill (lacking consistency and effort on a weekly basis, 2's for a few weeks)
- Minson (take grabs or **** off; Skipper deserves a chance)
- Addison (not good enough for AFL. Full. Stop.)
- Cooney (get your head out of your arse boy)
- Cross (work-rate is down, one good year doesn't make an elite midfielder)
- Everitt (you've been given the #3, and I'm still wondering why)
- Welsh (join the long list of reject spuds we've signed over the years, you play 1 good game in 5 - not good enough)
- Williams (figure out what you want to do with your life; you're looking like a waste of space)
- Griffen (start performing consistently or I'll really begin to believe Tambling is a better player than you)

Any players you actually like? Oh, and Eade obviously hasn't had long enough, he's now got 2 more years at least.


Robert Murphy. Didn't even play against West Coast, but doesn't escape my wrath in any case. Stop writing wanky articles and focus on your football. I'm sick of how our players get distracted with off-field stuff. You're not James Hird. You've strung together a handful of games in the past couple seasons and you go missing at crucial moments when you do actually play. Murphy, Gia and a few others get a free ride from way too many posters on this forum. They are part of the leadership group and it's time we demand more. They are the ones setting the example to other players.

How many of our blokes get "distracted by off-field stuff"? Murph does ONE article each week, Aker the same. It'd probably take them an hour. They're two of the most professional players going around, in terms of their approach to being match-ready. Should we make them leave their wives and children, and move into the ELC until we win a Premiership?:eek:

[LostDoggy]

Dante Hicks... is there anyone at the club you are happy with? Is there anything we do that brings a smile to your face? Why do you even bother "supporting" our club (and I use that word very loosely)?

I agree with almost all of Dante Hicks' summation. His players summary is a tad harsh but i do agree with him on these players:

- Hahn (should be dropped immediately)
- Eagleton (should be dropped immediately)
- Hill (lacking consistency and effort on a weekly basis, 2's for a few weeks)
- Williams (it's not his fault, but this boy has no football brain, and i'm not sure who runs the fitness and agility test down there as he constantly gets beaten by pace)

I disliked Gia at the start of the year, but this year he has shown he is making the step up to becoming a leader and a valuable member of the side. Sorely missed in recent times.

Minson - Should be a monster, insted is a pussycat. This bloke is the worst player i can rember being on our list in recent memory who's had an extended run in the seniors. Skipper must wonder what he has to do - esp. when this sorry excuse for a footballer is infront of him.

Can't mark, no football brain. Has to be trade bait at end of season, if any team is stupid enough to give us pick 78. Hope that Roughead and Cordy can come along in leaps and bounds asap.

Eade and Smorgon have done a magnificent job it must be said. I'm very happy that Eade has signed a new two year deal.

[Desipura]

Had half of the first 11 behinds been goals we would have won by five goals.

The players looked very sluggish, and I am sure there was more training load than Eade would have liked made public.

I can only talk from experiances playing paddock footy, that my terrible kicking became worse when fatigued.

I am sure that this may have been a telling case at the start of the game for the doggies. Many of the missed goals and missed target kicks were from tired legs.
So did they get "untired" when they came back to be 8 points in front only to get tired again at the final siren?

[Mofra]

- Hahn (should be dropped immediately)
- Eagleton (should be dropped immediately)
- Hill (lacking consistency and effort on a weekly basis, 2's for a few weeks)
- Williams (it's not his fault, but this boy has no football brain, and i'm not sure who runs the fitness and agility test down there as he constantly gets beaten by pace)
Who do you replace each with? Hill played on Glass who is a gun FB and kicked two goals despite shocking delivery into the F50.
Williams is vital to our structure - people are perhaps underselling Kennedy's abilities as a forward. I was disappointed we didn't chase him last year.


I disliked Gia at the start of the year, but this year he has shown he is making the step up to becoming a leader and a valuable member of the side. Sorely missed in recent times.
Classic case fo you don't know what you've got till you lose it. People were bagging him before he got injured, despite him leading assists and possibly being our cleanest disposer of the ball in traffic.


Minson - Should be a monster, insted is a pussycat. This bloke is the worst player i can rember being on our list in recent memory who's had an extended run in the seniors. Skipper must wonder what he has to do - esp. when this sorry excuse for a footballer is infront of him.
Minosn is bigger, stronger and quicker than Skip. Skip gives his all but just a few weeks back the board was heralding Minson's breakout year.


Can't mark, no football brain. Has to be trade bait at end of season, if any team is stupid enough to give us pick 78. Hope that Roughead and Cordy can come along in leaps and bounds asap.
If you think Minson is only worth pick 78, please do not apply for any positions at the club in the near future.

[LostDoggy]

Why would i apply for any positions? Unlike some posters on here, i know i'm just another supporter who's puts up with the average and the bad.

Minson is substandard. I certainly wasn't part of the board heralding his breakout year. He's done nothing. Hudson is twice the footballer Minson is. His desire to get the football from second efforts makes up for his lack of ability and mobility. Minson could do well to develop at least one of these traits.

I just don't acknowledge the argument put forward by some of the more self-loving posters on this forum that we are down to bare bones. "Who do we replace them with?" Answer is those players on your list that can handle a run - Skipper, O'Keefe, Wood (glad he got a run) and FFS, it's West Coast. Baring injury, give Grant a run down Fwd. 20 games in melb, no wins. What other ****ing time would be better to see if he can improve?

[chef]

Richmond people can still remember winning a Premiership.

I can't remember them winning a flag(I was six at the time). So supporting the Tiges would be a hell of a lot worse than supporting the Dogs IMO.

[Sedat]

Minson is substandard. I certainly wasn't part of the board heralding his breakout year. He's done nothing. Hudson is twice the footballer Minson is. His desire to get the football from second efforts makes up for his lack of ability and mobility. Minson could do well to develop at least one of these traits.
Minson is a better tap ruckman that Hudson. He's no Jon Brown up forward but his actual ruck work at stoppages is as effective as just about any ruckman going around in the AFL.

[Bulldog Joe]

Minson is a better tap ruckman that Hudson. He's no Jon Brown up forward but his actual ruck work at stoppages is as effective as just about any ruckman going around in the AFL.

Nice to see someone who understands something about ruck work.

I know the tap by Lynch led to the winning goal, but that happens with the centre bounce. The real problem with that was the lack of a midfielder on the defensive side.

The previous tap, when the ball was recalled for a throw up was a magnificent tap to Aker for a goal. The stats probably don't give Will goal assists for those taps leading directly to goals, but he has provided several goals direct from ruck contests throughout the season.

[gohardorgohome]

I find it interesting.

IMO both Minson and Hudson are equally handy ruckmen, but Minson seems to cop a lot more flack here because he isnt the best tall forward option.

I think the Minson to a rampaging Cooney taps are not as common this year.....not sure if this is Will's fault of Cooney's lack of a pre season!

[gohardorgohome]

So did they get "untired" when they came back to be 8 points in front only to get tired again at the final siren?

For sure!!

Catch up footy is dangerous.

Tired legs at the start of the games have less spark than the opponenet, you then can work into the game, hence the comeback.

Then run out of gas....interesting that the last quarter quarter was 3 goals 3 behinds a piece.

[Mofra]

I just don't acknowledge the argument put forward by some of the more self-loving posters on this forum that we are down to bare bones. "Who do we replace them with?" Answer is those players on your list that can handle a run - Skipper, O'Keefe, Wood (glad he got a run) and FFS, it's West Coast. Baring injury, give Grant a run down Fwd. 20 games in melb, no wins. What other ****ing time would be better to see if he can improve?
Skipper is slower, lighter and shorter than Minson. By Eade's admission he's less likely to take a grab forwad than Minson (despite my wanting Skipper in for Hahn earlier this year, it wont happen).
O'Keefe? Slowest and least fit on the list. Would struggle to run out an AFL game.
Grant? Struggles to run out VFL games.

No point dropping a player if their replacement is going to be worse.

[LostDog]

I get asked why do you support the doggies ?
Because I like supporting Olympians who aim to win bronze medals
and the Dogs are the closest fit

[LostDoggy]

Why would i apply for any positions? Unlike some posters on here, i know i'm just another supporter who's puts up with the average and the bad.

Yes most people are happy to accept the avearge and bad.
Rubbish talk.

You also answered your own question. You think you can change things then put your hand up.

[LostDoggy]

very harsh you guys..bad day at the office ..morals to beat lions this week but can we get rid of Fumbleton he hasnt had a kick for 5 weeks

[LostDoggy]

very harsh you guys..bad day at the office ..morals to beat lions this week but can we get rid of Fumbleton he hasnt had a kick for 5 weeks
Thats what I will be calling him for now on.:D

[LostDoggy]

Thats what I will be calling him for now on.:D

LOL, also heard a good name for Minson,......... Edward Concrete Hands.. :D