What will be non-success for 2009 in your eyes?

[bulldogtragic]

Coming into the year, expectations of many were top 3 or 4 and a pre-lim final as a very minimum. Is this still your benchmark by which you will determine success for the WBFC in 2009 by, or have things changed along the way?

We still have a pulse for top 4 and who knows what happens in finals. I still think if we can bounce back we 'can' finish top 4, but i've only seen that team twice this year, against Port and Hawthorn. If that tem is selected and plays, then we do the pre-lim thing and even better.

But for me, if we fail to finish top 4 and/or fail to make the pre-lim, together with very poor membership results and money issues, I would be forced to say the year would have to be described as 'unsuccessful' (and possibly the loss of B.Lake could make it worse if he doesn't re-sign). But as i say there is a long way to go and we are there and there abouts.

[AndrewP6]

After setting the bar making prelim last year, it's hard to see anything less as successful. I've been of the opinion for a while now that we are not a better team this year. I'd be thrilled if the boys could rally in the coming weeks and prove me dead wrong.

Is there any development in Lake's contract negotiations? Faaarrk, if he goes, we're knackered down back.

[boydogs]

Non-success to me will be if we don't make the prelim. Don't care if we miss the top 4 or make it then lose the first final, but if we don't make the prelim I will not be satisfied with our year

[DOG GOD]

I'm sure (i might be wrong) that i didnt pick us to finish in the top 6 this year...that being said i would be disappointed if we didnt get to a prem-lim after making the finals.

[GVGjr]

Coming into the year, expectations of many were top 3 or 4 and a pre-lim final as a very minimum. Is this still your benchmark by which you will determine success for the WBFC in 2009 by, or have things changed along the way?

We still have a pulse for top 4 and who knows what happens in finals. I still think if we can bounce back we 'can' finish top 4, but i've only seen that team twice this year, against Port and Hawthorn. If that tem is selected and plays, then we do the pre-lim thing and even better.

But for me, if we fail to finish top 4 and/or fail to make the pre-lim, together with very poor membership results and money issues, I would be forced to say the year would have to be described as 'unsuccessful' (and possibly the loss of B.Lake could make it worse if he doesn't re-sign). But as i say there is a long way to go and we are there and there abouts.

I've talked about this a few times because we seemed to be lowering the bar on the expectations of the season. Anything less than a top 4 finish in the finals I would regard as a failed season. IMO, given that we set the H&A season as the main priority we should judge the club and the coach on a high and strong finish. Finishing 5th or 6th shouldn't be regarded as a job well done.

[LostDoggy]

I've talked about this a few times because we seemed to be lowering the bar on the expectations of the season. Anything less than a top 4 finish in the finals I would regard as a failed season. IMO, given that we set the H&A season as the main priority we should judge the club and the coach on a high and strong finish. Finishing 5th or 6th shouldn't be regarded as a job well done.

I totally agree.

[bulldogtragic]

I have a cunning follow up question, hoping that everyone would say top 4 or similar, which to date has happened.

If we don't play to our capabilities over the next 6/7 weeks - what is the response. It can not be tolerated as a club and there needs to be responses to ensure we bounce back in 2010. What does the club need to do with:

The Coaches, inc. head coach
Senior Playing Group (i.e. Hahn, Welsh, Johno, Aker, Eagle etc, etc)
Playing Group
Assessing trading and drafting needs

???

[AndrewP6]

I have a cunning follow up question, hoping that everyone would say top 4 or similar, which to date has happened.

If we don't play to our capabilities over the next 6/7 weeks - what is the response. It can not be tolerated as a club and there needs to be responses to ensure we bounce back in 2010. What does the club need to do with:

The Coaches, inc. head coach
Senior Playing Group (i.e. Hahn, Welsh, Johno, Aker, Eagle etc, etc)
Playing Group
Assessing trading and drafting needs

???

Keep the Coach.
Methinks Eagle will retire/be retired. Welsh could go round again, but if troubled with further injury, might get nudged. On the flipside, if Aker can stay healthy, I'd like to see him kept on.
I think we need to go after Bazza, if only for a year or so, will give our developing talls time, and the opportunity to learn from one of the best (despite the odd bit of biffo, he can play!). Unless there is a better/younger option - which is not easy to find.
In the draft, or any trades, a quick small forward would be good.

[GVGjr]

I have a cunning follow up question, hoping that everyone would say top 4 or similar, which to date has happened.

If we don't play to our capabilities over the next 6/7 weeks - what is the response. It can not be tolerated as a club and there needs to be responses to ensure we bounce back in 2010. What does the club need to do with:

The Coaches, inc. head coach
Senior Playing Group (i.e. Hahn, Welsh, Johno, Aker, Eagle etc, etc)
Playing Group
Assessing trading and drafting needs

???

Line in the sand time but we don't need an overhaul. We just can't keep rebuilding every few years and need to look at how Adelaide keep fronting up and proving the media wrong

I would look at:
Have we staffed the footy department sufficiently? (My guess is yes)
What was the younger player development plan and what progress did we make?
Do we have the right assistant coaches?
List management including recruiting, retirees, trading and have we apportioned the finances correctly.

[LostDoggy]

I dont think we have an option better than Rodney as coach.

Johno and Aker to stay, Welsh and Eagleton to go.

Have some faith in more of the young players.

Get Barry if we are interested in a crack for the next two seasons, otherwise put everything into Ayce, Grant and Roughy for subsequent seasons.

Keep Brian if we can afford it.

Be a bit tougher on established players.

[Scorlibo]

Anything less than a Grand Final with the list we've got will be a non-success in my eyes. For the last 3 years we've all been going, "next year is our year", or, "3 years from now is our window". Our time is NOW and if we don't deliver then we have failed.

[Mantis]

My goal for the teams performance at the start of the season was to get to the same place we were last year and then see what happens. That place was PF and if we finish 1st or 8th after the H&A season I don't really care, I want us to firstly qualify for a PF and then depending on form & injuries try and win the thing and improve on last year.

At present our form is being effected by injuries, hopefully we can get these missing players up and going by finals time and then hopefully play some of the footy we know the team can.

[anfo27]

With our list at our best i truly believe we can go all the way. We really need to finish 3rd so we can get a crack at the cats but we need to win the rest of our games. It might be a blessing in disguise the loss to the eagles because we play better when the team is focussed and we have to win. As we saw last year when the top 4 spot was ours and winning wasn't everything our performance was very poor. I'm afraid we don't have the mental toughness of the saints & cats. But we have a few things that these teams don't. We are alot quicker than both teams & our kicking skills are the best in the league (not that you could tell the last couple of weeks). So if we bring our A game we can beat anyone

[boydogs]

My goal for the teams performance at the start of the season was to get to the same place we were last year and then see what happens. That place was PF and if we finish 1st or 8th after the H&A season I don't really care


IMO, given that we set the H&A season as the main priority we should judge the club and the coach on a high and strong finish. Finishing 5th or 6th shouldn't be regarded as a job well done.

I would rather see us finish 6th and make the PF than finish 4th and miss


If we don't play to our capabilities over the next 6/7 weeks - what is the response

Change our selection approach to rather than give our perceived best 22 every chance to find form by leaving them in the side, to instead drop players who are not playing well and bring in players who are.

This will make players work on their flaws and try to improve rather than being content with where they are at, and give younger and fringe players more of an opportunity to develop

[LostDoggy]

With our list at our best i truly believe we can go all the way. We really need to finish 3rd so we can get a crack at the cats but we need to win the rest of our games. It might be a blessing in disguise the loss to the eagles because we play better when the team is focussed and we have to win. As we saw last year when the top 4 spot was ours and winning wasn't everything our performance was very poor. I'm afraid we don't have the mental toughness of the saints & cats. But we have a few things that these teams don't. We are alot quicker than both teams & our kicking skills are the best in the league (not that you could tell the last couple of weeks). So if we bring our A game we can beat anyone

I don't agree with that.

You don't come back from 6 goals down, twice in a game against Geelong, without having some sort of mental toughness. And the same with the game against Collingwood, you need mental toughness to produce what we did that night.

Also the finals last year, we got smashed by Hawthorn & then fronted up against Sydney. A lot of other teams might have dropped there bundle after getting smashed like we did, but we didn't. We turned up and beat the Swans, and then really pushed Geelong.

I think the group has a lot of mental toughness.

[anfo27]

I don't agree with that.

You don't come back from 6 goals down, twice in a game against Geelong, without having some sort of mental toughness. And the same with the game against Collingwood, you need mental toughness to produce what we did that night.

Also the finals last year, we got smashed by Hawthorn & then fronted up against Sydney. A lot of other teams might have dropped there bundle after getting smashed like we did, but we didn't. We turned up and beat the Swans, and then really pushed Geelong.

I think the group has a lot of mental toughness.

They got smashed by the hawks in the prelim because they choked, if you choke thats a mental issue.

They do have mental toughness but not like the cats & saints

[Dry Rot]

I thought we'd make the finals again but not do very well. Thought we had our best shot with roughly this team last year.

So I suppose this makes it an unsuccessful year, especially since our previous deficiencies have not been addressed. Inevitable really - our gameplan/style/personnel just aren't up to finals style pressure IMO.

[LostDoggy]

They got smashed by the hawks in the prelim because they choked, if you choke thats a mental issue.

They do have mental toughness but not like the cats & saints

Geelong choked against Hawthorn in the GF, but you still rate there mental toughness.

[anfo27]

Geelong choked against Hawthorn in the GF, but you still rate there mental toughness.

When you win as many games as they have for the last 3 years and win the big one you cant question they're mental toughness, the cats have it spades.

[Scorlibo]

They got smashed by the hawks in the prelim because they choked, if you choke thats a mental issue.

They do have mental toughness but not like the cats & saints

We have a different kind of mental toughness, we have the ability to turn things around week to week, and even quarter to quarter. But the Saints in particular this year are just so proffessional, never to they underestimate their opponents, they always turn up switched on and stay switched on for the entire game. That is something we really need to address if we are going to be a chance in September.

[anfo27]

We have a different kind of mental toughness, we have the ability to turn things around week to week, and even quarter to quarter. But the Saints in particular this year are just so proffessional, never to they underestimate their opponents, they always turn up switched on and stay switched on for the entire game. That is something we really need to address if we are going to be a chance in September.

Thats exactly what mental toughness is and thats what we need to get better at

[Remi Moses]

I'm actually glad we've got a tough run in to show whether we're up to it. Soft run in always worries me playing sides with nothing to lose attitude[yesterday]. everything to play for the next three weeks