What did we learn on Saturday.

[Mantis]

When I watch our team in action I like to watch the game closely and learn something new about our team & players each week, so what did I/ you learn about our team/ players on Saturday?

Add 1 and pass it on. (I get 2)

1. Tom Williams is still only learning and isn't the answer yet (maybe never?) in defence.
2. If it was ever in doubt to the fact that Nathan Eagleton was finished we got our definitive answer.

[The Coon Dog]

3. Josh Hill is not the answer one out at full forward.

[Desipura]

3. Josh Hill is not the answer one out at full forward.
4. Addison is not a full forward (why do the coaching panel focus on a strength in certain players whilst dismissing their weaknesses).
I have no doubt Addison was played forward due to his defensive pressure. How about taking into account his lack of height, his inability to read the ball as a forward and his lack of marking strength.

[The Pie Man]

Brian Lake can kick a goal from a set shot

[DOG GOD]

we'll never win a premiership until we have a spine.

[Mofra]

We need to find a way to mentally switch the team on before the bounce.

Was it Cooney on Sunday who mentioned Eade gave them a spray before the bounce as they looked very flat during the warm up?

[Desipura]

Brian Lake can kick a goal from a set shot
See how wide he ran off the mark? Should not have been paid a goal as the siren went and I believe it should have been called "play on". Would take a courageous uimpire to pay it though.

[Max469]

Everitt needs to be tried on the wing.

[The Coon Dog]

See how wide he ran off the mark? Should not have been paid a goal as the siren went and I believe it should have been called "play on". Would take a courageous uimpire to pay it though.

I was right behind Brian as he ran in for that kick & couldn't believe just how much he veered off the mark, very Buddy like & he's never been pinged for it. I heard Gieshen say that the umpires allow a bit of flexibility in such circumstances.

[Sedat]

1. We struggle to impose our run and carry game plan against teams that employ a heavy zone/press game plan. The Hawthorn game doesn't count as they were shot to bits with their personnel at the time.

2. We have to work twice as hard for our goals as the opposition. On Saturday, it was 63 inside 50's to 45 and yet West Coast's forward 50 entries were clean, precise and far more dangerous.

3. It has taken me a while to succumb to this train of thought, but we simply need to have a permanent big target up forward to underpin the rest of the forward line structure - Hall won't be here for the rest of 2009, so we need to roll the dice and push Minson deep for 90% of his game time for the remainder of the year, and back Hudson in to do the bulk of the ruck work from here on in. Premierships can be won without superstar big forwards (West Coast, Geelong) but a big presence up forward straightens up our structure and brings the rest of our forwards into the play through means other than spotting up a precision kick on the lead.

4. If we do employ Minson up forward permanently, Hahn and Welsh are in all sorts of trouble to retain their places in the team for the rest of this season, let alone 2010.

5. Our immediate depth is nowhere near as strong as we all thought it was. We have precious little key defensive cover coming through the ranks, there are very few midfield line-breakers being developed, and none of our key forward options will be making any significant impact at AFL level in 2010.

[ratsmac]

I learnt on Saturday that we can't go on without a key forward. Yes we can be a heavy scoring team without a key forward, but we can be found wanting at times. I personally have tried to deny they fact that we need a 'Barry Hall' type of player up forward, but when a bottom four team can expose your forward line, I don't even want to think of what could happen in the finals. Why wont they give Skipper a go up forward??? The last few weeks would of been the perfect opportunity for him to get a game and see what he is capable of. They games that I remember him playing in the ones he has been servicable, but due to injury he has ended up losing his spot in the team. He might have also been dropped from time to time, but hey he's tall and has been in good form all year at Williamstown. What do we have to lose?

[LostDoggy]

What I learnt. Glad to be (and hope I am) wrong:

Didn't Fremantle last year teach us that the game goes for four quarters? You don't stop at three-quarter time, like Fremantle, and you don't start at the second quarter, like the Dogs.

Football isn't magic. Anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Try pulling a habit out of a rat. Are we carrying uncoachable players who keep doing the same unproductive things (e.g., Griffen trying to break every tackle), and who won't follow instructions?

Some people are under the impression that 'GPS' stands for 'global positioning satellite'. Wrong. GPS means 'Get Pavlich Soon'. Whatever it takes to get a player like Pavlich, if not the man himself, we need to bite the bullet, whether it means cutting deep and/or trading quality player/s.

We don't seem to have a Plan B. Eade may be a great innovator, but once innovation crystallises into a game plan that every other team can read it becomes the very thing that inspires further innovation. I don't see a willingness to experiment, and the team seems to be easily frustrated by zone defence. Experimentation isn't as potentially quixotic as may seem- who ever would have considered Chris Tarrant to be in the running to be an All-Australian defender?!

Members, and supporters in general for that matter, don't want bulls&*t from the club. Premierships are not dreams, you don't just hope and wish for them, or hold a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey. If, objectively speaking, the club isn't thereabouts yet, then dump the 'premiership' rhetoric. We can deal with re-building, or even just being the best of the also-rans. We just don't want false hype.

We don't win the games we should, and we can't win the games we must. Sorry, but that's my perspective on what seems to be the harsh reality.

But when all is said and done... Go Doggies.

[LostDoggy]

We need a more structured forward line
It just looks like they are put there to fill in numbers
Barry Hall maybe?

[vho]

What I learnt. Glad to be (and hope I am) wrong:

Didn't Fremantle last year teach us that the game goes for four quarters? You don't stop at three-quarter time, like Fremantle, and you don't start at the second quarter, like the Dogs.

Football isn't magic. Anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Try pulling a habit out of a rat. Are we carrying uncoachable players who keep doing the same unproductive things (e.g., Griffen trying to break every tackle), and who won't follow instructions?

Some people are under the impression that 'GPS' stands for 'global positioning satellite'. Wrong. GPS means 'Get Pavlich Soon'. Whatever it takes to get a player like Pavlich, if not the man himself, we need to bite the bullet, whether it means cutting deep and/or trading quality player/s.

We don't seem to have a Plan B. Eade may be a great innovator, but once innovation crystallises into a game plan that every other team can read it becomes the very thing that inspires further innovation. I don't see a willingness to experiment, and the team seems to be easily frustrated by zone defence. Experimentation isn't as potentially quixotic as may seem- who ever would have considered Chris Tarrant to be in the running to be an All-Australian defender?!

Members, and supporters in general for that matter, don't want bulls&*t from the club. Premierships are not dreams, you don't just hope and wish for them, or hold a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey. If, objectively speaking, the club isn't thereabouts yet, then dump the 'premiership' rhetoric. We can deal with re-building, or even just being the best of the also-rans. We just don't want false hype.

We don't win the games we should, and we can't win the games we must. Sorry, but that's my perspective on what seems to be the harsh reality.

But when all is said and done... Go Doggies.

Post of the Day for mine :D

[LostDoggy]

What I learnt. Glad to be (and hope I am) wrong:

Didn't Fremantle last year teach us that the game goes for four quarters? You don't stop at three-quarter time, like Fremantle, and you don't start at the second quarter, like the Dogs.

Football isn't magic. Anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Try pulling a habit out of a rat. Are we carrying uncoachable players who keep doing the same unproductive things (e.g., Griffen trying to break every tackle), and who won't follow instructions?

Some people are under the impression that 'GPS' stands for 'global positioning satellite'. Wrong. GPS means 'Get Pavlich Soon'. Whatever it takes to get a player like Pavlich, if not the man himself, we need to bite the bullet, whether it means cutting deep and/or trading quality player/s.

We don't seem to have a Plan B. Eade may be a great innovator, but once innovation crystallises into a game plan that every other team can read it becomes the very thing that inspires further innovation. I don't see a willingness to experiment, and the team seems to be easily frustrated by zone defence. Experimentation isn't as potentially quixotic as may seem- who ever would have considered Chris Tarrant to be in the running to be an All-Australian defender?!

Members, and supporters in general for that matter, don't want bulls&*t from the club. Premierships are not dreams, you don't just hope and wish for them, or hold a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey. If, objectively speaking, the club isn't thereabouts yet, then dump the 'premiership' rhetoric. We can deal with re-building, or even just being the best of the also-rans. We just don't want false hype.

We don't win the games we should, and we can't win the games we must. Sorry, but that's my perspective on what seems to be the harsh reality.

But when all is said and done... Go Doggies.

Thoroughly enjoyed this post, and welcome to WOOF.

[ledge]

There are times to zone and times to go man on man, sometimes we dont pick the right times or right teams to do the better option.

[bulldogtragic]

What I learnt. Glad to be (and hope I am) wrong:

Didn't Fremantle last year teach us that the game goes for four quarters? You don't stop at three-quarter time, like Fremantle, and you don't start at the second quarter, like the Dogs.

Football isn't magic. Anyone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Try pulling a habit out of a rat. Are we carrying uncoachable players who keep doing the same unproductive things (e.g., Griffen trying to break every tackle), and who won't follow instructions?

Some people are under the impression that 'GPS' stands for 'global positioning satellite'. Wrong. GPS means 'Get Pavlich Soon'. Whatever it takes to get a player like Pavlich, if not the man himself, we need to bite the bullet, whether it means cutting deep and/or trading quality player/s.

We don't seem to have a Plan B. Eade may be a great innovator, but once innovation crystallises into a game plan that every other team can read it becomes the very thing that inspires further innovation. I don't see a willingness to experiment, and the team seems to be easily frustrated by zone defence. Experimentation isn't as potentially quixotic as may seem- who ever would have considered Chris Tarrant to be in the running to be an All-Australian defender?!

Members, and supporters in general for that matter, don't want bulls&*t from the club. Premierships are not dreams, you don't just hope and wish for them, or hold a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey. If, objectively speaking, the club isn't thereabouts yet, then dump the 'premiership' rhetoric. We can deal with re-building, or even just being the best of the also-rans. We just don't want false hype.

We don't win the games we should, and we can't win the games we must. Sorry, but that's my perspective on what seems to be the harsh reality.

But when all is said and done... Go Doggies.
Amen to that.

For me, I learnt that our best 22 needs some turning over. Welsh is not the answer, Eagleton must go, Hahn isn't doing enough-often enough, Johno and Aker are still doing enough thank god. And for us to improve to the standard required, we need fresh talent to improve these spots in the team. We might only get a few percent improvement, but if we can get an improvement of 5% across the board, then that's a step in the right direction. I.e. Hill back to Eagle's wing, Hall for Welsh and Grant, Stack or others in for Hahn, if Hahn can't get back to last years form by next year.

[bornadog]

I learnt:

1. No matter who is in the forward line, tall or short, you need to deliver the ball on the chest, not high up in the air.

2. Tom Williams is still learning and plays like a second year player

3. Eagleton - giving us nothing

4. Hard to win with lots of 20 year old players in the team, - Hill, Harbrow, Ward, Wood, Stack, Everitt.

5. Hard to win without 5 of your best 22 out of the team - Murphy, Higgins, Gia, Picken, Welsh.

[Mantis]

Matthew Boyd played his worst game for 2 or 3 years. The number of times he missed a target by hand or foot was disgusting. To make matters worse on a number of occassions after making a mistake he just stood back and watched his team-mate (who was often out-numbered) try to make amends for his skill error.

[DOG GOD]

I learnt:

5. Hard to win without 5 of your best 22 out of the team - Murphy, Higgins, Gia, Picken, Welsh.

Saint beat hawks with 9? of their best 22 out in l'ton where their record is AVGE!!
We lost to weagles with 5 of our best 22 out at etihad.

Sorry Bornadog, but no excuse for a pathetic effort against a team that had won 0 of last 19 away.

[The Pie Man]

We need to find a way to mentally switch the team on before the bounce.

Was it Cooney on Sunday who mentioned Eade gave them a spray before the bounce as they looked very flat during the warm up?

On Channel Nine's Sunday Footy Show - was pretty dissappointing to hear (was a little surprised it was volunteered actually)

[Mofra]

4. Hard to win with lots of 20 year old players in the team, - Hill, Harbrow, Ward, Wood, Stack, Everitt.
Ward was one of our shining lights, Harbrow never gives less than 100% and Hill did well considering Glass is in the top 3-4 FBs in the game. Those 3 are in our best 22 regardless of age.

Stack was terrible, Everitt drifts and I quite liked Wood's game although some disagree. I want to see more of Easton.

[Sedat]

Stack was terrible, Everitt drifts and I quite liked Wood's game although some disagree. I want to see more of Easton.
Wood provides what we sorely lack on our list, the ability to run and carry. He definitely needs to work on his foot skills and especially his decision-making when actually disposes of the ball, but he's worth persevering with for the long term.

[bulldogtragic]

Wood provides what we sorely lack on our list, the ability to run and carry. He definitely needs to work on his foot skills and especially his decision-making when actually disposes of the ball, but he's worth persevering with for the long term.
I liked the boy's confidence in his first game to take on the opponent, run around him or through him and take the game on. That confidence in your own ability is a wonderful thing. Much better than stop, prop, hesitate, kick backwards or dish off hospital handpasses to team mates.

[LostDoggy]

If Saturday wasn't a case of we need a key forward to win a flag, i'm not sure what will be.


2. Tom Williams is still learning and plays like a second year player

He basically is that.

[LostDoggy]

If you don't kick straight it is hard to win footy matches!

[LostDoggy]

Yep, call me old-fashioned, but I still think bad kicking = bad football. Simple as that really.

[Cyberdoggie]

155: We have 2 players that can take a contested mark, Lake and Cross, neither are forwards.

156: Josh Hill has forgotten or lost confidence in leaping for a mark. He appears to be spending too much time around johnno as he's trying to nudge the defender out of the way with his body and then run onto the ball. Only problem is Hill is a bantam weight trying to out body heavy weights. He should stick to leading and jumping. Get himself in a position where he isn't going to get body contact before jumping.

157: Mitch Hahn can't take a contested mark or jump off the ground. He looked as flat as a tack out there.

158: Stack has a lot to learn about taking a mark up forward. I don't think he won any of the 1 on 1 contests he was involved in. Fell to the ground on most occasions, and in the others he mis-read the flight or was led under the ball.

[1eyedog]

We have not improved since 2006.

[Dazza]

We quite possibly need to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. (Blood our youngsters next year)

[LostDoggy]

I actually can't wait for 2010 season. Because by then we would have done all the
list management stuff that fellow woofers have been crying for and then all the trades and drafts are done and we know exactly where we are.


I was NEVER confident of the dogs making the Grand Final this year, I was just hoping to play some finals and get some more experience in to the kids.

Josh Hill has nearly played every game (out of position too), we've unearthened a young lock down player in Picken and have had two debuts in Wood and Stack.

Those are the positives.

The negatives - We still have not got a regular tall forward target - the ones we do have are not AFL ready and are still learning their trade in the VFL - Grant was given a taste and realised he needs to do helluva lot more on his fitness. And the calls for Wayde Skipper to be a forward target is a little sad - when a player who couldn't even get a regular gig when Peter Street was our number 2 ruckman then it's pretty sad really.


I was hoping Tom Williams would string together a few games but he has been a disappointment and I really do hope the Tommy experiment doesn't fail and we trade him to the GCFC. I'm sure Scotty Clayton will be keeping an eye out for him.

I know I'll be blasted for having this mindset: But I really wish the season was over. The next three games I of course hope the dogs win, but after the loss against the Weagles, I highly doubt the dogs will win any of them.

Time to look at the list and start making some hard decisions. Can we trade any "big" names on our list and get a great KPP in return?

Are there any quality players you're willing to part with, when what you're getting is equal or hell even higher value?

With Griffen being a little disappointing, would you ever consider trading him to one of the SA teams? Or a three way trade that includes an SA team, the dogs and the GCFC?

To get quality, we'll have to give up something of quality.

There's the draft of course, but we're a little impatient for results and we want something NOW.

Just my thoughts - that's all.

[BulldogBelle]

We need to find a way to mentally switch the team on before the bounce.

Was it Cooney on Sunday who mentioned Eade gave them a spray before the bounce as they looked very flat during the warm up?

Mofra, I was in the rooms prior to the St. Kilda game for the warm-up and I couldn't believe how quiet the group was.

[Before I Die]

We don't win the games we should, and we can't win the games we must.

Twice to St Kilda, twice to Geelong, once to each of Collingwood, Carlton and West Coast. Which of these, apart from West Coast, were the games you refer to?

We are behind St KIlda, probably also Collingwood and most likely Geelong if they can get a few players back. The jury is still out on Brisbane and Adelaide. This was true both before and after Saturday's game.

If we can't win games against Brisbane, Geelong and Collingwood over the next few weeks what makes us think we can during the finals. The counter argument is just as valid. I am disappointed by the weekend's results, but at the end of the day I don't think it makes any difference to our chances for this year. If we are good enough we will win over the coming weeks and impact in September. If not, we won't.

What I learned on Saturday was that you can't afford to miss your first eleven shots at goal and expect to win. What I think a lot of WOOFERS haven't learned is that the cost of regular success and the high expectations which come with it, is disappointment every now and then. Given the alternative, which long time Dogs supporters are very familiar with, I am in a happy place.

We are 4th, it is still very much game on.

[boydogs]

One Positive:
Aker is probably our best forward (is our leading goalkicker) and could be a key contributor for us in the finals

One Negative:
Aker is probably our best forward and may not be kept on for next year

[Mantis]

What I learned on Saturday was that you can't afford to miss your first eleven shots at goal and expect to win. What I think a lot of WOOFERS haven't learned is that the cost of regular success and the high expectations which come with it, is disappointment every now and then. Given the alternative, which long time Dogs supporters are very familiar with, I am in a happy place.

We are 4th, it is still very much game on.

You are very easily pleased.

[LostDoggy]

What did we learn...hmm.

We aren't StKilda? Take 5 of our best 22 out and we cannot win.

[LostDoggy]

Not aan excuse or anything but we were practically injury free for 2/3 of the year
Then Gia goes down, Higgins other, and now crossy..
That must contribute somehow!

[Before I Die]

You are very easily pleased.

Quite possibly true :) and I am sure a number of posters will claim supporters like me are the reason we haven't won more premierships. I like seeing my team win, I like knowing there is still potential for further development in the squad and I like my team sitting inside the top four. Nothing is certain in life or footy. I was disappointed on Saturday and I will be disappointed if we don't go all the way this year. However the fat lady has not yet taken the stage and I intend to enjoy the show until it is over.

Back on topic:

I learned I don't understand why Brad Johnson is used so rarely in the FF position given his proven success there. Especially in a game where everyone else has been tried and failed.

[Stefcep]

Amen to that.

For me, I learnt that our best 22 needs some turning over. Welsh is not the answer, Eagleton must go, Hahn isn't doing enough-often enough, Johno and Aker are still doing enough thank god. And for us to improve to the standard required, we need fresh talent to improve these spots in the team. We might only get a few percent improvement, but if we can get an improvement of 5% across the board, then that's a step in the right direction. I.e. Hill back to Eagle's wing, Hall for Welsh and Grant, Stack or others in for Hahn, if Hahn can't get back to last years form by next year.

I picked eagle hahn and welsh to be delisted after our loss to collingwood. I'm now 100% they are all playing their last month of footy.

[LostDoggy]

I learnt that this year is the last year of the uncompromised draft, and I am suddenly taking an interest in the top 10 players. Will Santa give us a big kid we can turn into a full forward:o

[LostDoggy]

Twice to St Kilda, twice to Geelong, once to each of Collingwood, Carlton and West Coast. Which of these, apart from West Coast, were the games you refer to?

We are behind St KIlda, probably also Collingwood and most likely Geelong if they can get a few players back. The jury is still out on Brisbane and Adelaide. This was true both before and after Saturday's game.

If we can't win games against Brisbane, Geelong and Collingwood over the next few weeks what makes us think we can during the finals. The counter argument is just as valid. I am disappointed by the weekend's results, but at the end of the day I don't think it makes any difference to our chances for this year. If we are good enough we will win over the coming weeks and impact in September. If not, we won't.

What I learned on Saturday was that you can't afford to miss your first eleven shots at goal and expect to win. What I think a lot of WOOFERS haven't learned is that the cost of regular success and the high expectations which come with it, is disappointment every now and then. Given the alternative, which long time Dogs supporters are very familiar with, I am in a happy place.

We are 4th, it is still very much game on.

Good to see a positive thread and i agree full heartedly - any team that misses their first 11 shots on goal is going to struggle to win! We need to keep our chins up - last Saturday was disappointing, but we have a HUGE chance to redeem ourselves against Brisbane this week and Geelong / Collingwood the next 2. If we come home with 2 wins out of 3, i dont think we will all be saying that we are no chance come finals time - with Gia / Higgins / Murph / Welsh back and firing!

Stay positive - it will hopefully rub off on the players (even though i have been staying positive for the last 30 years without success)...... we have a good team which is capable of winning the flag....

[bornadog]

We also learnt that supporters go haywire on foirums, radio talk back etc, when we lose a match that we expect to win. Suporters start qusetioning every player, coach and thinking the season is over and forgetting the great wins we have had during the year and what we have achieved to date.

[LostDoggy]

We also learnt that supporters go haywire on foirums, radio talk back etc, when we lose a match that we expect to win. Suporters start qusetioning every player, coach and thinking the season is over and forgetting the great wins we have had during the year and what we have achieved to date.

And that one poster will say a player is crap, while another poster will say that player was great!;)