Replacing Williams

[Rocco Jones]

I am not looking for a basic in and out here. Williams is out for at least 2 weeks and it could potentially be more, even the season. How are we going to re-structure our backline?

If not for so many of our runners being in doubt for the finals, I would say it could be a potential blessing in disguise (I would rather him in our best 22 either way though) with Morris playing solely as a KP defender, freeing up a spot for a runner/flanker. I think Morris and Lake were great against the Cats in the Prelim.

Do we bring in Tiller as a direct replacement for Williams? I see two main roles for a KP defender. One is to negate dangerous players and the other is to exploit weaker KP forwards going the other way. I think Morris and Lake fit the respective roles very well. While I rate Tiller and think he could fill a role in our side, I don't see it being as a KP defender.

Should we bring in Callan to help free up Morris to take taller opponents?

[chef]

Callan may be handier this week against the cats as they rely more of their small and medium forwards to score. But then again Tiller has performed well with every chance he has gotten.

[Rocco Jones]

Callan may be handier this week against the cats as they rely more of their small and medium forwards to score. But then again Tiller has performed well with every chance he has gotten.

What role would Tiller play?

[azabob]

I think Tiller offers us great flexability as in he can play on mid sized forwards and taller ones at a pinch.
However our best two options to replace Williams in Tiller and Callan haven't exactly had a great run on the injury front of late.

[Rocco Jones]

I think Tiller offers us great flexability as in he can play on mid sized forwards and taller ones at a pinch.
However our best two options to replace Williams in Tiller and Callan haven't exactly had a great run on the injury front of late.

I mentioned it in the other thread, but like comrade I would have Tiller playing on a small or medium. I really don't see Tiller as a tall defensive option. A bit like a poor man's Shaggy.

[azabob]

I mentioned it in the other thread, but like comrade I would have Tiller playing on a small or medium. I really don't see Tiller as a tall defensive option. A bit like a poor man's Shaggy.

I agree as I did say at a pinch he could play on the talls. For example if we play the saints and Gardiner is resting forward surely Tiller would have to pick him up rather than Hargrave or Everitt?
Who would you have playing on Gardiner as the 3rd tall with Williams out?

[comrade]

Is Boumann a sneaky chance this week? :o

[Rocco Jones]

I agree as I did say at a pinch he could play on the talls. For example if we play the saints and Gardiner is resting forward surely Tiller would have to pick him up rather than Hargrave or Everitt?
Who would you have playing on Gardiner as the 3rd tall with Williams out?

Yeah that's a fair point bobby. I think Tiller could offer us a fair bit of versatility.

[azabob]

Is Boumann a sneaky chance this week? :o

But Comrade which goal square would you play him in? :D

[chef]

What role would Tiller play?

I see him being our third tall behind Morris and Lake. I think that Tiller could handle Hawkins if needed if Geelong play Ottens this week as a forward. If Geelong only have two talls in their forward line i would prefer Callan to come in instead.

[Go_Dogs]

Tiller for mine seems the logical option, although no one can really 'cover' for Tom. I guess we become a bit more horses for courses with our backline from now on, and any of Callan, Everitt and Addison as well as Tiller could be shots to nail down a spot for finals.

[BulldogBelle]

I see him being our third tall behind Morris and Lake. I think that Tiller could handle Hawkins if needed if Geelong play Ottens this week as a forward. If Geelong only have two talls in their forward line i would prefer Callan to come in instead.



Ottens is a wild card....how did he perform in the VFL last weekend?

Shaggy played really well against Port Adeliade when he lined up against Westhoff

Lake v Mooney
Morris v Hawkins

If Ottens plays then switch Lake over to him and put Shaggy on Mooney

Callan or Tiller will depend on who is fitter...I would choose Callan over Tiller though and go with a shorter and quicker creative backline

Ottens wont be a massive fixture coming off an extensive layoff

[Happy Days]

Ottens is a wild card....how did he perform in the VFL last weekend?

Shaggy played really well against Port Adeliade when he lined up against Westhoff

Lake v Mooney
Morris v Hawkins

If Ottens plays then switch Lake over to him and put Shaggy on Mooney

Callan or Tiller will depend on who is fitter...I would choose Callan over Tiller though and go with a shorter and quicker creative backline

Ottens wont be a massive fixture coming off an extensive layoff

Mooney has about 25kgs on Westhoff, he would monster Shaggy.

[chef]

Ottens is a wild card....how did he perform in the VFL last weekend?

Shaggy played really well against Port Adeliade when he lined up against Westhoff

Lake v Mooney
Morris v Hawkins

If Ottens plays then switch Lake over to him and put Shaggy on Mooney

Callan or Tiller will depend on who is fitter...I would choose Callan over Tiller though and go with a shorter and quicker creative backline

Ottens wont be a massive fixture coming off an extensive layoff


I think your forgetting Geelongs best forward. Hargrave will play on Steve Johnson.

[The Pie Man]

Shaggy played really well against Port Adeliade when he lined up against Westhoff

Lake v Mooney
Morris v Hawkins



The Westhoff's are Shaggy's bread & butter - I know he's tall (198) but his mobility is medium-forward like (if that makes sense) and I think Tiller can play these type of roles as well (as Rocco has alluded to previously)

Slightly off topic for a moment - I think someone like Westhoff has some soul searching to do, Shaggy gave him a real bath earlier this year and I saw a very un-competitive effort from him against Carlton, resulting in only 7 touches. Clearly a skinny talent worth persevering with once he puts on weight, but I'd be worried about the lack of effort at times.

Back on topic - I'd play Lake on Hawkins and Morris on Mooney

[bornadog]

Is Boumann a sneaky chance this week? :o

Cam Wight might be:D

[anfo27]

Who does Harbrow get? Stokes kicked 5 on him last time & the size of the cats forwards is a worry.

[Mantis]

Who does Harbrow get? Stokes kicked 5 on him last time & the size of the cats forwards is a worry.

Byrnes.

[boydogs]

Scott Welsh anyone?

[anfo27]

Byrnes.

i'm happy with that, Byrnes is a hack

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Scott Welsh anyone?

Bugger!!!! you beat me to this:D

I think we could go for a hard nut in Tillier or Callan, if that doesn't work send down Welsh. I think that the cats have had a few tough games and with players coming back will not want to go to hard, I would pick on fitness first as we can't afford to carry anybody from here on in.

Timmy may also like to prove a point in the lead up to September against his old side;)

[chef]

i'm happy with that, Byrnes is a hack

I'd be happy to have that hack in our forward line.

[chef]

Scott Welsh anyone?

Welsh plays as a decoy against the Cats dragging Scarlett away from the play.

[anfo27]

I'd be happy to have that hack in our forward line.

you must be kidding have you seen him kick at goal? he's hopeless, only plays cause he has pace. he wouldn't get a game in our best 22

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Welsh plays as a decoy against the Cats dragging Scarlett away from the play.

Sounds like Big Will could manage that.

[chef]

you must be kidding have you seen him kick at goal? he's hopeless, only plays cause he has pace. he wouldn't get a game in our best 22

But he doe's in the best side over the last three seasons. Besides Aker we don't have any small crumbing forwards.

[anfo27]

But he doe's in the best side over the last three seasons. Besides Aker we don't have any small crumbing forwards.

Only because they lack runners and we don't.

[Mantis]

Only because they lack runners and we don't.

Yes we do, that is why Eagleton still gets a game.

We also lack small crumbing forwards which is why Lynch is still on the list.

[GVGjr]

Yes we do, that is why Eagleton still gets a game.

We also lack small crumbing forwards which is why Lynch is still on the list.

So we lack runners, small forwards and decent KPP? We might have some work to do on draft day.

[LostDoggy]

you must be kidding have you seen him kick at goal? he's hopeless, only plays cause he has pace. he wouldn't get a game in our best 22

Has kicked 26 goals this year for Geelong, would be in our top 5 at the club.

[comrade]

So we lack runners, small forwards and decent KPP? We might have some work to do on draft day.

Pace and polish in the midfield, and defensive depth are the two biggest areas we need shoring up IMO and our first two picks should reflect that.

[anfo27]

Yes we do, that is why Eagleton still gets a game.

We also lack small crumbing forwards which is why Lynch is still on the list.

Byrnes wouldn't get a game in front of eagle.

[GVGjr]

Pace and polish in the midfield, and defensive depth are the two biggest areas we need shoring up IMO and our first two picks should reflect that.

I don't disagree but we had Clayton in the chair for 10 years and still haven't got a balanced list. It's not like we have recently had a spate of retirees that have upset the apple cart.

Back to replacing Williams, I was hoping that they would try Everitt in a key defensive role well before the finals but we missed that boat and we won't be sure if he can perform that role.

[The Underdog]

Sounds like Big Will could manage that.

Scarlett will and has destroyed Will going the other way. Geelong much like St.Kilda are a team where Will can quickly become a liability if he's at FF and we turn the ball over.

On topic, I'd like to see Tiller come in if fit and ready. I think he is able to play the 3rd tall role and also play on medium forwards leaving Shaggy free to play on Johnson then Harbrow and Addison to play on your Stokes and Byrnes. Almost wouldn't be surprised to see Callan come in to play on Stokes but not sure if we could risk Tiller and Callan off one game each in the VFL.
As we don't have a ready made replacement for Williams I agree that Morris has to slide over and play tall. Therefore Lake plays on Mooney, Morris on Hawkins and if Ottens goes forward, Lake takes him and Morris takes Mooney. Tiller or Welsh or whoever is chosen would take Hawkins.

[Mantis]

Byrnes wouldn't get a game in front of eagle.

They play different roles so probably not, another factor is that due to the high regard Eagle is held in at WO Chris Judd would struggle to get a game before him.

In saying that Byrnes would still get a game for us.

[comrade]

I don't disagree but we had Clayton in the chair for 10 years and still haven't got a balanced list. It's not like we have recently had a spate of retirees that have upset the apple cart.

Back to replacing Williams, I was hoping that they would try Everitt in a key defensive role well before the finals but we missed that boat and we won't be sure if he can perform that role.

The times that Everitt has been forced to play as a key defender at Willy has shown that it's just not the appropriate role for him - I recall Pods tearing him apart in a 15 minute patch.

[Mantis]

So we lack runners, small forwards and decent KPP? We might have some work to do on draft day.

We have some promising KPP's waiting in the wings so hopefully they develop well over the next couple of years.

We do need to bolster our quick/ skilful stocks on draft day so hopefully we can find some players who fill these requirements.

[anfo27]

They play different roles so probably not, another factor is that due to the high regard Eagle is held in at WO Chris Judd would struggle to get a game before him.

In saying that Byrnes would still get a game for us.

lol like your Judd comment but disagree with Byrnes.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't disagree but we had Clayton in the chair for 10 years and still haven't got a balanced list. It's not like we have recently had a spate of retirees that have upset the apple cart.

Back to replacing Williams, I was hoping that they would try Everitt in a key defensive role well before the finals but we missed that boat and we won't be sure if he can perform that role.

I think we're sure Everitt can't perform a key defensive role.

[Bulldog Joe]

Is Boumann a sneaky chance this week? :o

Hard to see someone get promoted from Williamstown seconds to the Bulldog senior side.

[bornadog]

Hard to see someone get promoted from Williamstown seconds to the Bulldog senior side.

If you know Comrade, that comment was tongue in cheek.

[comrade]

Hard to see someone get promoted from Williamstown seconds to the Bulldog senior side.

Absolutely, but wouldn't it be fun to watch.

[LostDoggy]

Hard to see someone get promoted from Williamstown seconds to the Bulldog senior side.

If i recall correctly Harbrow got promoted from the VFL seconds for his debut game a couple years back

[Happy Days]

If i recall correctly Harbrow got promoted from the VFL seconds for his debut game a couple years back

He was in the seconds two weeks before his debut, then to the magoos, then to the seniors.

[Sedat]

According to Guru Garry Lyon, we'll have to replace both Williams and Lake in our back half :rolleyes:

For mine, it will be horses for courses depending on who we play and how they structure up. Tiller can play the swingman between taller opponents and smaller opponents (kind of like a poor-man's Shaggy), and Callan adds that fanatical hardness against the smaller forwards (if a little unsubtle and prone to attack the ball too hard and occasionally be worked under the ball by a smarter opponent). Against the likes of Collingwood and Geelong, we could get away with replacing Tom with a smaller defender, but against a St Kilda, I'd prefer to see a taller type with some verstility come in to replace him, and only Tiller fulfils that criteria IMO.

Everitt's stagnation has bitten us on the arse right about now. Rightly or wrongly, he was drafted as a future KPP for us and has not showed the necessary aptitude, desire and smarts to compete on-out as a key defender so far in his career.

[neodog]

Everitt is too soft and play "too nice" in my honest opinion. He needs to get some Tattoos and attitude like his big bro.

You need attitude to be able to handle the Gorilla in the goal square.

[The Coon Dog]

Everitt is too soft and play "too nice" in my honest opinion. He needs to get some Tattoos and attitude like his big bro.

You need attitude to be able to handle the Gorilla in the goal square.

He does seem to lack intensity, doesn't he?

[Topdog]

It's great that Brynes kicks goals but lets face facts here people, he has the worst defender on him every week and is a pretty accurate kick for goal. When you have to worry about Mooney, Chapman, StevieJ and Stokes you tend to leave Brynes out of the equation.

[Desipura]

It's great that Brynes kicks goals but lets face facts here people, he has the worst defender on him every week and is a pretty accurate kick for goal. When you have to worry about Mooney, Chapman, StevieJ and Stokes you tend to leave Brynes out of the equation.

Replace Stokes with Eagleton. 20 uncontested possies on the weekend tell me he was well and truly left out of the equation!

[Mofra]

Replace Stokes with Eagleton. 20 uncontested possies on the weekend tell me he was well and truly left out of the equation!
Stokes will never kick 3 goals from outside 50m in a game.

[Desipura]

Stokes will never kick 3 goals from outside 50m in a game.
I mean in the sense that Eagleton was left out of the equation. Not talking about where he kicks his goals from.

[Mitcha]

It's great that Brynes kicks goals but lets face facts here people, he has the worst defender on him every week and is a pretty accurate kick for goal.
Byrnes is far from being an accurate kick for goal. Has kicked more behinds than goals over his career 53 goals 58 behinds and this is the first season his accuracy is over 50%. Good sides can carry ordinary players such as Byrnes, Lonergan and Gamble, he is a spud and would be nowhere near our best 22.

[Studentlib]

Would it be fair to say that the Everitt family are late developers physically and emotionally? Everitt the elder took some years to mature as a player and as an individual. We may need to invest some psych work in him to ensure our investment provides a higher return asap.

[anfo27]

Byrnes is far from being an accurate kick for goal. Has kicked more behinds than goals over his career 53 goals 58 behinds and this is the first season his accuracy is over 50%. Good sides can carry ordinary players such as Byrnes, Lonergan and Gamble, he is a spud and would be nowhere near our best 22.

Spot on Mitcha, glad someone agrees with me.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Who does Harbrow get? Stokes kicked 5 on him last time & the size of the cats forwards is a worry.

I think Harbrow has grown immeasurably as a player since then. I'd give him another crack.

[The Coon Dog]

I think Harbrow has grown immeasurably as a player since then. I'd give him another crack.
Yup, I reckon the fire would be burning in his belly.

[anfo27]

Yup, I reckon the fire would be burning in his belly.

i dont know about that one, if they isolate him Stokes is way to big for him.

[The Coon Dog]

i dont know about that one, if they isolate him Stokes is way to big for him.

Just looked up both clubs websites:

Matthew Stokes - 177cm
Jarrod Harbrow - 178cm

Geelong (http://www.geelongcats.com.au/players/tabid/8264/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)
Western Bulldogs (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/tabid/8976/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)

[LostDoggy]

Just looked up both clubs websites:

Matthew Stokes - 177cm
Jarrod Harbrow - 178cm

Geelong (http://www.geelongcats.com.au/players/tabid/8264/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)
Western Bulldogs (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/tabid/8976/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)

It's not his height, it's his core strength which allowed him to outbody Harbrow badly last time. Harbrow had little idea as to how to position himself against Stokes.

Hopefully, the coaches have been working with him on this weakness.

[anfo27]

Just looked up both clubs websites:

Matthew Stokes - 177cm
Jarrod Harbrow - 178cm

Geelong (http://www.geelongcats.com.au/players/tabid/8264/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)
Western Bulldogs (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/tabid/8976/category/senior/season/2009/default.aspx)

Whats the weight difference?

[The Coon Dog]

Whats the weight difference?

Stokes has an extra 6kgs.