Game Day - QF2 Western Bulldogs vs Geelong

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for this Saturday's game at the MCG against Geelong.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 19 points
BOG : Adam Cooney
Shaun Higgins to kick the first goal.

[Max469]

Dogs by 25 pts

Aker - BOG

Murphy - 1st goal

[bornadog]

First Goal - Hahn

BOG - Cooney

Dogs by 17 points

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dogs by 21 points
First goal to Boyd
BOG to Lake

[LostDoggy]

Ok lets go for 3 weeks in a row!!
Dogs by 13 points
First Goal to Missy Higgins
BOG Big Bad Bustling Brian Lake!

Go you good things!! =D

[AndrewP6]

***shudders nervously***

Dogs by 9 points
BOG Lake
First goal Johno

[boydogs]

Dogs by 22 points
First Goal Robert Murphy
BOG Jason Akermanis

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 31 points
Cooney BOG
Johnson 1st goal

Can't wait, bring it on

GO DOGGIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 42 points
Murphy BOG
Ward 1st goal

[GVGjr]

I don't mind saying that I'm nervous.

We have no excuses to fall back on as we are playing well and have as close to a full list to choose from that you could realistically ask for at this time of the year.

We have the big stage and we are playing good football plus we are playing an opposition side that's not quite at their best.

If we win it's sets us up nicely but if we lose there is nowhere to run to really.

The stage has been set for a huge day for the club.

Dogs by 4 points with Higgins kicking the first goal and Lake earning BOG honors.

[LostDoggy]

Bulldogs by 23 points
Minson BOG
Minson 1st goal

(one can dream!) :D


oh, and for those interested, the AFL has announced that the loser of our game will play next Friday nite, with the loser of the Saints/Collingwood game playing on Saturday nite. Hopefully it won't matter, 'cause we'll win!!

[Go_Dogs]

I'm going Dogs by 23 points also.
Griffen BOG
Gilbee first goal

Huge test for our boys today, but one that they should welcome. At the start of the season many people said that it wasn't until finals that we would have a chance for redemption. At the moment we are playing probably the best football we have under Eade, and have a fantastic opportunity to beat the best side of the past 3 years.

I'm very, VERY excited. Hopefully we win and I can book some flights for the prelim tomorrow.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 17pts
Johnno first goal
Coons BOG

[LostDoggy]

Just a touch nervous!

Dogs by 10 pts
Hill first goal
Coons BOG

[BulldogBelle]

How's the weather in Melb?

[bornadog]

How's the weather in Melb?

Cool, sunny with a little bit of cloud, expecting only 16 degrees, but doubt it will rain.

[NoName]

First Goal:- Higgins
Final Margin:- 24 points
BOG:- Lake/ Harbrow

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Dogs by 33 points
First goal Hahn
BOG HIGGINS
I'm unusually nerveless. My feeling and intuition is we will the flag and not drop a final.

[BulldogBelle]

Cool, sunny with a little bit of cloud, expecting only 16 degrees, but doubt it will rain.

Thanks. Can't get to match today. Good luck to all.

First Goal : Gia
BOG : Hudson
Dogs by 1 point.

[G-Mo77]

So, so nervous I feel like I'm going to throw up! I'll get some Macca's in Keilor on the way and hopefully that will settle the stomach.

Dogs by 13 points
BOG: Boyd
First Goal: Higgins

I'm just about to leave so lets hope we're all happy around 5ish

GO DOGS!!!!!!!

[KT31]

Dogs by 12
First Goal- Hill
BOG - Cooney

[jazzadogs]

Dogs by 6
First goal - Higgins
BOG - Boyd (although Cooney will get votes in the paper because Boyd's contribution is rarely recognised)

I still believe =]

[DOG GOD]

Hmm i REALLY want the dogs to win but have this HORRIBLE feeling that Geel will bring their A game today, and we arent that great against them in finals, so with that said (and dont hate me)....

Cats by 23pts
BOG for us: BOYD
1st goal: AKER

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I'm very Confident this week.

Geelong with their back's to the wall will come out strong, Especially after rocket doing cartwheels on missing the saints.

Dogs by 9 points
Johnson BOG
Eagle 1st Goal

With a solid effort from Griff

[Happy Days]

Dogs by 19,
Cooney BOG,
Minson 1st goal.

We should be able to win this game easily. We did this two weeks ago, and the only thing that has changed since then is that Griffen and Cross have come back in.

[LostDoggy]

About to head off.

Dogs by 22
Bog Boyd
First Goal Aka

[BulldogBelle]

Ryan Gamble reportedly in warm up for cats.
--MMM

[Happy Days]

Ryan Gamble reportedly in warm up for cats.
--MMM

Not that horrible for the Cats. He caused us some serious headaches both last year at Skilled, and earlier this year before he knocked himself out.

[BulldogBelle]

Changes to the selected side
In: Simon Hogan
Out: Max Rooke

--another outlet.

[boydogs]

Best of luck Dogs. You can do it!

[LostDoggy]

Anyone pick Hudson first goal?? Not me!

[Dry Rot]

Hasn't our dwarf forward line gone well so far?

I suppose the guys' kicking back up the field hasn't helped much.

[DOG GOD]

Why is Gia even out there...he is NOWHERE near match ready...wouldve rather Reid or Everitt. Skills are TERRIBLE, tackling ressure was a joke in the 1st qtr and we really let an opportunity slip in that last 10 mins where we had alot of the play and couldnt score with pretty much no focal point.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

A dismal 1st quarter pressure wise, which saw us behind the 8 ball, and as much as we improved this in the second quarter, our non functioning forward line looms large as a big problem into the second half.

We need to make sure we do not let Geelong kick the first couple in the 3rd, and find some semblance of a workable structure inside 50.

If we have similar amount of the play that we did in the 2nd quarter, but we cannot scoreboard reward then we are in big trouble.

[Dry Rot]

Hope Gilbee has a good chiropractor - haven't seen such a good coat hanger since my rugby league watching days.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well save for a massive last quarter surge, we are gone.
We just cannot contain Geelongs midfield, or run from defense.
Griffen's inclusion looks to be a bad call, instead of being a plus for us he's been a liability.

[DOG GOD]

Gia and Griff shouldnt be playing. Both have NO running power whatsoever.

[Dry Rot]

Well save for a massive last quarter surge, we are gone.
We just cannot contain Geelongs midfield, or run from defense.
Griffen's inclusion looks to be a bad call, instead of being a plus for us he's been a liability.

Agreed - looks real under done.

[Dry Rot]

Gia and Griff shouldnt be playing. Both have NO running power whatsoever.

Gia hasn't done well, but he has some mates.

Our decision making is poor - we look mentally soft.

[Templeton31]

Lots of players not going well - Hill, Gia, Griff, Johno spring to mind. I imagine there will be plenty about needing a tall fwd but our fwd line works when blokes work hard and lead. WHile its hard to tell from tv it doesnt look like much of that happening. Cooney, Eagle, Ward get pass marks from me so far but not too many others spring to mind. A good 3rd quarter from Aka.

[DOG GOD]

I certainly wasnt fooled by Geels last month and neither were the bookies...they were favourites for a reason. Call ours stage fright, call it what u want. Just not good enough, and with a non defunctional fwd line against the best defense, we were always gonna struggle. Not hard enough at the ball. Thru the middle when we're going fwd the place is congested. When the cats come thru the middle its like our players are on the wings. Gotta pray that Bris win after watching this, otherwise it could be straight sets for us....hope we dont get blown away in the last.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't understand why we let Ablett run free, he has absolutely killed us, yet noone has sat on him.

[Dry Rot]

I certainly wasnt fooled by Geels last month and neither were the bookies...they were favourites for a reason. Call ours stage fright, call it what u want. Just not good enough, and with a non defunctional fwd line against the best defense, we were always gonna struggle. Not hard enough at the ball. Thru the middle when we're going fwd the place is congested. When the cats come thru the middle its like our players are on the wings. Gotta pray that Bris win after watching this, otherwise it could be straight sets for us....hope we dont get blown away in the last.

I thought that the Cats were out of sorts when we last played them but got shouted down. That win was fool's gold.

When did we last beat Carlton?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Positives.

We had our chances, despite not playing well.
At least we are not coming off a belting heading into next weeks' game.
I think we can regroup for next week and come out snarling (pardon the pun).

[Dry Rot]

Margin flattered us IMO. At least we didn't give up. Outplayed for most of the game. Not good enough.

[DOG GOD]

I agree D.R. I thought we were totally outplayed when it counted. Cats took the foot off the pedal in the last but just did enough. IF we had kicked those goals, i'm sure the cats wouldve kicked back into gear. The selections of Murph, Gia, and Griff cost us dearly as they looked either SLOW, UNABLE TO RUN RUN RUN, and skills and decision making was poor. They werent alone though, we didnt have many winners. I thought Gilbs was good though.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Margin flattered us IMO. At least we didn't give up. Outplayed for most of the game. Not good enough.

I'm not convinced the margin flattered us, once again our poor start cost us, insofar as we were playing catch-up-football from Qtr time on.

Both side missed easy chances, but in the end the difference was the inability of our midfield to get a consistent advantage at stoppages. Geelong were consistently able to win enough clearances and get it to advantage too many times, and apart from Ward on Selwood we had no winners in our midfield.

And lastly our use of the ball into our forward 50 was woeful, which didn't allow us to put scoreboard pressure on Geelong for long enough.

After quarter time I felt our effort improved, and I think that our last quarter will at least give us some positives to build on for next week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I agree D.R. I thought we were totally outplayed when it counted. Cats took the foot off the pedal in the last but just did enough. IF we had kicked those goals, i'm sure the cats wouldve kicked back into gear. The selections of Murph, Gia, and Griff cost us dearly as they looked either SLOW, UNABLE TO RUN RUN RUN, and skills and decision making was poor. They werent alone though, we didnt have many winners. I thought Gilbs was good though.

I don't have a problem with Gia's selection. Having 2 games in a row, I think it was fair enough of the selection panel to assume he would increasingly find his feet.

I also don't see how the selection panel could've even considered not including Murph, as he is arguably our most important players in getting our forward line to function. He just had a poor game, as did several others, but his playing was not a selection blunder.

Griffen however, 3 weeks off, coming into this game, and given the personnel had done the job in his absence, I'm not sure he should've played.

[Dry Rot]

I'm not convinced the margin flattered us, once again our poor start cost us, insofar as we were playing catch-up-football from Qtr time on.




I agree D.R. I thought we were totally outplayed when it counted. Cats took the foot off the pedal in the last but just did enough. IF we had kicked those goals, i'm sure the cats wouldve kicked back into gear.

I agree with DG. I think the last quarter was a mix of our better endeavour PLUS the Cats taking their foot off the accelerator.

One constant factor was our dinky little handpasses and kicks don't work under real pressure. Some very poor decision making out there today.

[LostDoggy]

At least we went down with a fight!
Now we have to pray that Brisbane win tonight..

[DOG GOD]

What did Gia offer though? He looks majorly slow and his decisions can sometimes leave me scratching my head for someone with experience.

NO WAY Griff shouldve played ahead of Reid, and i'm a fan of Griff but he is frustrating. Everitt wouldve at least given us "something" surely as some sort of target eith back or fwd.

Murph had a shocking final series last year and he didnt change that aspect in this match.

[LostDog]

I dont wanna play carlton, straight sets will be embarrasing

[DOG GOD]

At least we went down with a fight!
Now we have to pray that Brisbane win tonight..

Yep...dont wanna play blues.

[LostDog]

Best result for us
Brisbane win
Collingwood Upset St Kilda

[DOG GOD]

Best result for us
Brisbane win
Collingwood Upset St Kilda

Yeah thats what i reckon.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

What did Gia offer though? He looks majorly slow and his decisions can sometimes leave me scratching my head for someone with experience.

NO WAY Griff shouldve played ahead of Reid, and i'm a fan of Griff but he is frustrating. Everitt wouldve at least given us "something" surely as some sort of target eith back or fwd.

Murph had a shocking final series last year and he didnt change that aspect in this match.

As a selector though I can't see how they could've contemplated not selecting Gia or Murph, especially Murph.

I was more perplexed when they played Gia against the Cats two weeks ago, after a 8 week lay-off, but once they made that decision for him to play that game, then he was always going to play in the finals. We forget that prior to his injury he was leading the competition for Goal Assists, and I think that our forward line needs as many guys who add to our ability to score.

And normally Gia's decision making is very good. Last week and today it wasn't.

Murphy does need to put in a good game next week to start squaring the ledger on his poor finals record.

I see both Murphy and Gia playing next week, and as much as I think it's a gamble, I think Griffen, whilst coming under close scrutiny at the selection meeting, will also play next week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I agree with DG. I think the last quarter was a mix of our better endeavour PLUS the Cats taking their foot off the accelerator.

One constant factor was our dinky little handpasses and kicks don't work under real pressure. Some very poor decision making out there today.

Agree on the dinky handpasses, which I think are a reflection on our lack of run overall.

I'm still not convinced that the Cats took their foot off the accelerator, especially given our propensity to surge in last quarters, as we need against them early in the season.
I think it would've been supreme arrogance for Geelong to have put the cue in the rack. Once our pressure lifted they were no longer looking assured with their disposals and decisions.
If Higgins or Aker had've kicked one of the three chances they had in the last, I think it would've been very very interesting.

[LostDoggy]

Disappointing day but the equation is still the same as 2:29PM win 3 games in a row and you win the flag.

[LostDoggy]

WHY WHY WHY is everyone trying to avoid the Saints????
You watch, Collingwood will win that one by 40+ points. My biggest fear coming into the finals were Geelong (they know when to turn it on), and Adelaide (remember '97, when they had to have a wining streak just to make the 8, then the streak continued to win the flag). Saints have switched off, yeah they are a good team but you can't turn poor form around in a week!
Today the Dogs got over whelmed by the moment at the start, and couldn't regroup.
The only positives to come out of the negatives of playing Gia and Griff are, they get some games into them so they'll be right for the later (and more important) finals.
The only danger now is if the Dogs make it to the more important finals????????????

[GVGjr]

The easy option is to lay the blame at our lack of height up forward again. It's a convenient excuse albeit not that accurate.

We got beaten today for 3 reasons:

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.
- We played a couple of guys that were underdone.
- A higher portion of unforced skill errors than would normally be acceptable hurt us.

We can keep dancing around blaming the lack of height up forward but it's the same list that we had at the start of the season so why do we need to go over old ground after every loss.

We gave an experienced side a significant start and couldn't rope them back in and it's not because of a lack of a key forward.

[DOG GOD]

The easy option is to lay the blame at our lack of height up forward again. It's a convenient excuse albeit not that accurate.

We got beaten today for 3 reasons:

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.
- We played a couple of guys that were underdone.
- A higher portion of unforced skill errors than would normally be acceptable hurt us.

We can keep dancing around blaming the lack of height up forward but it's the same list that we had at the start of the season so why do we need to go over old ground after every loss.

We gave an experienced side a significant start and couldn't rope them back in and it's not because of a lack of a key forward.

So Gary, should we have played all 3 of Murph, Gia and Griff?

[GVGjr]

So Gary, should we have played all 3 of Murph, Gia and Griff?

It's all hindsight I suppose but I'd say Griffen was a poor selection and perhaps Gia wasn't put under the microscope enough after his performance last week. It's easier said than done mind you but is it that surprising that both Griffen and Giansiracusa looked so short of a gallop?

[DOG GOD]

I;m sure that Reid and Everitt (after the game against pies) wouldve given us a little more diversity in structure if they played. I'm not bagging Gia or Griff, but its obviuos Gia is nowhere near his ability and Griff looked slow and decision making was poor. U could tell he's been out for 3 weeks. The game was a little quick for him.

But as u say, its all in hindsight.

[Rance Fan]

It's all hindsight I suppose but I'd say Griffen was a poor selection and perhaps Gia wasn't put under the microscope enough after his performance last week. It's easier said than done mind you but is it that surprising that both Griffen and Giansiracusa looked so short of a gallop?



Hahn looked injured also. Surely Everitt at half forward would be better choice.

[LostDoggy]

The easy option is to lay the blame at our lack of height up forward again. It's a convenient excuse albeit not that accurate.

We got beaten today for 3 reasons:

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.
- We played a couple of guys that were underdone.
- A higher portion of unforced skill errors than would normally be acceptable hurt us.

We can keep dancing around blaming the lack of height up forward but it's the same list that we had at the start of the season so why do we need to go over old ground after every loss.

We gave an experienced side a significant start and couldn't rope them back in and it's not because of a lack of a key forward.

I agree! Why is it for the last three weeks, we didn't hear anything about "not having a tall FWD"????
It's only when the dogs loose that the issue comes up????
If you don't have a tall FWD, kick to the advantage of your smaller quicker FWDs! Thats how the dog won last time against geelong. That and using the running goal.

[LostDoggy]

Hahn looked injured also. Surely Everitt at half forward would be better choice.

Or on the Wing.
Everitt has the legs and athletisism to do the job.
He ran very well against the Pies, and is capable of doing so much more than what he has shown us so far.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The easy option is to lay the blame at our lack of height up forward again. It's a convenient excuse albeit not that accurate.

We got beaten today for 3 reasons:

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.
- We played a couple of guys that were underdone.
- A higher portion of unforced skill errors than would normally be acceptable hurt us.

We can keep dancing around blaming the lack of height up forward but it's the same list that we had at the start of the season so why do we need to go over old ground after every loss.

We gave an experienced side a significant start and couldn't rope them back in and it's not because of a lack of a key forward.

Well put Gary, we just didn't play at the level required to beat a side of this quality.
The conjecture over underdone players looks easy on the surface of it as a bad call, but I can understand the process and why they decided to play Gia and Griff.

I'd also add to the 3 points you made, that our inability to control for a sustained period of time proceedings at and around stoppages hurt us. Too many times as we attempted to wrest momentum back our way, we would lose crucial clearances and allow Ablett and Ling in particular to get the ball out of traffic and into their forward line.

[DOG GOD]

Its alot easier to play players on "reputation" than form. For me Reid and Everitt shouldve played instead of Gia and Griff. They wouldve given us more structure, diversity in our set-up and both played well the week b4 against Gia (who hadnt shown much running ability since coming back) and Griff coming off a 3 week break.

[GVGjr]

Its alot easier to play players on "reputation" than form. For me Reid and Everitt shouldve played instead of Gia and Griff. They wouldve given us more structure, diversity in our set-up and both played well the week b4 against Gia (who hadnt shown much running ability since coming back) and Griff coming off a 3 week break.


I know what you are saying but imagine if the game went largely to today's script and we fell 14 points short despite playing Everitt and Reid.
My guess is that we would have a lot of people saying that we should have played Griffen and Giansiracusa and we lacked the heart to play the quality guys.

Hindsight probably confirms that they were underdone however, having the balls to not include them would have been a very gutsy selection.

[The Coon Dog]

In games there's often turning points that go along way to determining the result.

Today, there were a couple:

* Huddo's chase down of Mackie on our half back line that ultimately resulted in a goal to us.

* Cooney kicking out on the full. We had kicked the first 2 goals after half time to get within 9 points & from the resultant free kick Ling goaled, Geelong through Ablett got the centre take away & goaled again. 2 goals within a minute, just took the wind out of our sails.

I'm sure there are other moments that had a significant impact, including missed shots for goal, though both sides were guilty there.

I do recall Sockeye Salmon going nuts in the last quarter when Callan Ward allowed his man to get to a contest form Shaggy's kick in & feed off to Enright who goaled.

Does anyone know why Scarlett was free so often? It really pissed me off today, BIG TIME!!!!

[azabob]

In games there's often turning points that go along way to determining the result.

* Huddo's chase down of Mackie on our half back line that ultimately resulted in a goal to us.


I do recall Sockeye Salmon going nuts in the last quarter when Callan Ward allowed his man to get to a contest form Shaggy's kick in & feed off to Enright who goaled.

Does anyone know why Scarlett was free so often? It really pissed me off today, BIG TIME!!!!

Thought Hudson was good most of the day tried to set the tone for hardness at the footy. Thought Ward was our best player. What disapointed me was how many times the Geelong midfielders and defenders got goal side of our players.
Ablett got all his touches in the back half in round 21, this time around he got them forward of the centre and hurt us a hell of a lot.

[azabob]

Where was the pressure and desire in the first quarter? Game was there for the taking and we couldn't take it.
Not sure which of the two is more disapointing?

[angelopetraglia]

Further to those moments to above TCD.

These two also hurt.

-3Q late, Cooney's attempt on goal just touched on the line. Cats took it down the other end and kicked a goal straight away.

-After that. Minson marks. Kicks on the full. Cats take it down the other end in a flash and another goal.

That below the game out to six goals and it was pretty much gone.

Even though, we didn't bring our best game there were so many 50/50s in the game that just didn't fall our way. We were not good enough today to win it regardless, but every break did not go our way.

[The Pie Man]

Mitch Hahn - 12 disposals, 58% efficiency, 2 out on the fulls
Will Minson - 8 disposals, 75% efficiency, 1 out on the full
Josh Hill - 11 disposals, 82% efficiency, 1 goal and plenty of missed opportunities

These two will have to come under the microscope, especially if Everitt can play well tomorrow

Murphy's 17 disposals are listed at 76% efficiency....really??? His disposal was horendous today. Gia's 14 listed at 57%, not good.

Umpiring didn't have a massive impact - BUT, I would have much preferred a 21 point margin at qtr time, and that Bartel HTB on Cross was a CLEAR in the back.

Frustrated, but not completely gutted....I still give us a chance of making the GF, but if we do get there, winning it now becomes much tougher. Eagles in 06 last to do it from the semi.

[Happy Days]

Does anyone know why Scarlett was free so often? It really pissed me off today, BIG TIME!!!!

I attributed that to us trying to kick it over him, and our kicks lacking penetration. A very poor attempt to curb his influence.

[The Pie Man]

Does anyone know why Scarlett was free so often? It really pissed me off today, BIG TIME!!!!

30 touches and most were effective - it does hurt.

Particularly first half, we weren't playing anyone deeper than 50 out, which helped their defence.

[The Doctor]

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.



This is the one I have most issue with.

I'll name them.

Giansircusa - absolute rubbish game. I once got heckled for criticising his soft approach but I've got him in my sights again. He doesn't put his head over the ball. He is slow. He often takes the wrong option (ie passing to Eagleton on the boundary surrounded by cats. He makes sure it's an overhead marking contest as we all know Eagle is so good in the air). He always, I repeat always, slips or goes to ground at the hint of a contest. I've had it with him. Fit or not fit he cost us badly today.

Hahn - Arguably worst on ground. Gave us nothing. Kicked out on the full when we need a senior player to kick a needed goal. On one occassion Johnson and Gilbee fought hard to get the ball out of defence, Hahn was the upfield option but he didn't present. He just stood there. I went off my head. He is slow, doesn't work hard enough and once again exposed in the heat of finals football.

Eagleton - We all know he doesn't put his body on the line. Today was bad by even his standards. He had a great opportunity to cut off a lead when the Cats ran the ball from defence but opted not to go. Why do we kick it to him in one on one marking contests? I'll never know. His use of the ball was ordinary as well. His saving grace was he ran hard.

Johnno - Battles hard but 2 big issues today. Not kicking that goal in the last. The worst one was feigning for a free kick in a one on one in the last 1/4. He went to ground, no free kick and rightly so, Cats run away with it. Not good enough. Reminded me of the prelim last year.

Murphy - Doesn't seem to be able to step up in the pressure cooker of finals football.

I think the Bulldogs have to make some hard decisions at the selection table this week. I want to see sentiment thrown out the window. I am sick of seeing the same players making the same mistakes. It is obvious some of them cannot handle finals footy.

Out: Giansiracusa, Hahn

In: Reid and Everitt

Reid will put his body on the line and do the hard stuff and won't fall over unless hit by a tank. Everitt will offer a lot more than Hahn in terms of presenting and is a far superior kick. Give the young lions a go.

[The Pie Man]

Hahn - Arguably worst on ground. Gave us nothing. Kicked out on the full when we need a senior player to kick a needed goal. On one occassion Johnson and Gilbee fought hard to get the ball out of defence, Hahn was the upfield option but he didn't present. He just stood there. I went off my head. He is slow, doesn't work hard enough and once again exposed in the heat of finals football.

Murphy - Doesn't seem to be able to step up in the pressure cooker of finals football.


I hear ya on the disappointment with Hahn's game - I'm over it, I hope Everitt plays well tomorrow and they actually bite the bullet.

Murph's knee had to be giving him grief - I love him, but his disposal today was maybe worse then last year's prelim. Killing us

[BulldogBelle]

This is the one I have most issue with.

I'll name them.

Giansircusa - absolute rubbish game. I once got heckled for criticising his soft approach but I've got him in my sights again. He doesn't put his head over the ball. He is slow. He often takes the wrong option (ie passing to Eagleton on the boundary surrounded by cats. He makes sure it's an overhead marking contest as we all know Eagle is so good in the air). He always, I repeat always, slips or goes to ground at the hint of a contest. I've had it with him. Fit or not fit he cost us badly today.

Hahn - Arguably worst on ground. Gave us nothing. Kicked out on the full when we need a senior player to kick a needed goal. On one occassion Johnson and Gilbee fought hard to get the ball out of defence, Hahn was the upfield option but he didn't present. He just stood there. I went off my head. He is slow, doesn't work hard enough and once again exposed in the heat of finals football.

Eagleton - We all know he doesn't put his body on the line. Today was bad by even his standards. He had a great opportunity to cut off a lead when the Cats ran the ball from defence but opted not to go. Why do we kick it to him in one on one marking contests? I'll never know. His use of the ball was ordinary as well. His saving grace was he ran hard.

Johnno - Battles hard but 2 big issues today. Not kicking that goal in the last. The worst one was feigning for a free kick in a one on one in the last 1/4. He went to ground, no free kick and rightly so, Cats run away with it. Not good enough. Reminded me of the prelim last year.

Murphy - Doesn't seem to be able to step up in the pressure cooker of finals football.

I think the Bulldogs have to make some hard decisions at the selection table this week. I want to see sentiment thrown out the window. I am sick of seeing the same players making the same mistakes. It is obvious some of them cannot handle finals footy.

Out: Giansiracusa, Hahn

In: Reid and Everitt
Reid will put his body on the line and do the hard stuff and won't fall over unless hit by a tank. Everitt will offer a lot more than Hahn in terms of presenting and is a far superior kick. Give the young lions a go.



Agree with these outs!

I doubt our selectors will make the necessary changes though

Our selectors will simply say, lets go for experience over youth.....Reid and Everitt will make bad decisions under finals pressure....Gia's fitness will improve....

Hahn was slow, didnt chase, doesnt get of the ground in any marking contest, didnt harass and didnt present in the forward line...

Everitt at CHF is a FAR better option...

If we play Brisbane, Williams if fit will be included I imagine also

[DOG GOD]

Well said Doc.

[Rance Fan]

Like always No Chance they will make any changes id say.Unfortunately.

Maybe the 1st quarter next week we just need to stack the backline or everyone follow the ball, so hopefully the opposition doesnt skip away with a big score while awake from our 1st qrt slumbers.

[Dry Rot]

The easy option is to lay the blame at our lack of height up forward again. It's a convenient excuse albeit not that accurate.

.

Disagree - it's part of the problem but not the whole problem.

[Studentlib]

My take on today was: we lost by 14, played poorly, Cats played well, we come back next game with our good team and style of play; not the team that played Freo and WCE and played dumb footy like today.
We seem to have too many players who are either mentally unable to dominate a good opposition or to concentrate for a full 100 minutes and then put team under pressure with poor decisions and execution of basic skills creating turnovers and more pressure. And too many are carrying injuries which affect their skills and speed. In finals we all know that everything goes up another 10 %.so why didn't griffen play one game at least in VFL and keep Reid/Everitt in team. Big Selection mistake I thought. Hill could go for Everitt. Hill has been carried for most games and we can't afford it in September.
.
Eade said tonight that Murph has had a knee for 8 weeks; we know Cooney has an ankle, Cross also and Gia has not recovered fully. As a result their kicking is poor and just not good enough for finals footy. Unfortunately we don't have the depth not to play them. The team is only competitive when all 22 contribute to the highest level.

[DOG GOD]

Eade said tonight that Murph has had a knee for 8 weeks; we know Cooney has an ankle, Cross also and Gia has not recovered fully. As a result their kicking is poor and just not good enough for finals footy. Unfortunately we don't have the depth not to play them. The team is only competitive when all 22 contribute to the highest level.

Why? Reid could easily do just as well as a half fit Gia, and he wouldnt hesitate to put his head over the ball.

I think for a coach to turn around and say 4 players arent fit (or struggling to shake injuries, but playing ahead of FIT players) is disrespect to those fit players missing out.

Reid, Everitt and Wood have showed signs of being good contributors. To say we dont have the depth not to play them is a cop out.

[Scorlibo]

No one performed genuinely badly, everyone did their bit really. What we needed was a game breaker, and while Cooney, Higgins, Akermanis, Johnson and Griffen threatened to do that at times, the only real standout player was Gilbee imo.

[LostDoggy]

Saw Matty Robbins as i was walking to the gates today, hes still looking as fit as when he was with us....

[Dazza]

No one performed genuinely badly, everyone did their bit really.

I disagree I would say Hill, Giansiracusa and Griffen all had shockers.

[DOG GOD]

I disagree I would say Hill, Giansiracusa and Griffen all had shockers.

Totally agree.

[LostDoggy]

Disagree - it's part of the problem but not the whole problem.

I agree with that.

It's a huge problem, but not totally the reasons as to why we struggle in finals.

You need a large forward target up there, and not Minson (IMO he isn't the answer). You need someone who is smart & is able to read the play and know where to lead, as well as when to lead. If you watch Geelong, Brisbane etc.. they are forced to straightened because there big strong forwards lead hard, and lead straight. It's ok to have the style of play we do during the home & away season, but when it's put under finals intense pressure, it struggles.

The reason for this IMO, is that teams lift another notch & put more pressure on the ball carrier. Which in turn creates errors, and doesn't allow teams to run the lines as much as they would like to, we i feel, fall into this category.

Because we can't run the ball as much as we do at the dome, on the MCG, we are forced to go wide and bring the ball in. Either pumping the ball long to a short forward line, or being forced to pinpoint a pass to a small leading player in a pocket. When we do get the ball running through the middle of the ground, our small forwards have to lead wide anyway. Because we can't put the ball up a little in the air for a key target to jump and mark, our small forwards have to lead out wider.

It's just one of the problems with our team, the other being that the structure of the team is flawed. We don't have a solid spine from FB, all the way to FF.

[LostDoggy]

There were a few things that stood out for me today.

I think there was two kick ins that resulted in turnovers & goals to Geelong.

I dont think we created one.

Thats 12 points of the 14 we lost by.

The way that Geelong tired in the last quarter, made me feel that we may've been able to pinch it....
The way we are running out games, we appear to be fitter than other teams. If we play the Cats again, i think we can go in with a bit of confidence.

We just need to start better. :rolleyes:

I agree we had players down, but if we can get that close with a few not playing well, its not all doom & gloom. I hope that the players can bounce back next week.

I reckon Griffen needs a change to defence and play a role like Goddard does at St Kilda, I dont feel that we are getting the best out of him playing as a mid. Alternatively if we can get a decent forward for him, i would be happy to trade him.

We need a big forward that can play close to goal, I know we all agree that we can kick high scores with our small forward line, but it would be nice to have the option to just roost a ball to an area about 15m out from goal than have to pinpoint passes everytime.

It looks like we will play the Lions on Friday night, so that looks better than Carlton who we have struggled against recently. :)

[bulldog]

You would be happy to trade Griff i think it would be the biggest mistake the club would ever make
not that i think we would do it i think everyone should get off Griff's back 3 weeks out we cant expect
a BOG today judge him on how he plays next week against Brisbane.

[LostDoggy]

You would be happy to trade Griff i think it would be the biggest mistake the club would ever make
not that i think we would do it i think everyone should get off Griff's back 3 weeks out we cant expect
a BOG today judge him on how he plays next week against Brisbane.

Im not on his back, im going off his form for the year, not just today.

I think he is better for us running free from HB rather than fighting thru traffic in the midfield.

[Jasper]

I agree with that.

It's a huge problem, but not totally the reasons as to why we struggle in finals.

You need a large forward target up there, and not Minson (IMO he isn't the answer). You need someone who is smart & is able to read the play and know where to lead, as well as when to lead. If you watch Geelong, Brisbane etc.. they are forced to straightened because there big strong forwards lead hard, and lead straight. It's ok to have the style of play we do during the home & away season, but when it's put under finals intense pressure, it struggles.

The reason for this IMO, is that teams lift another notch & put more pressure on the ball carrier. Which in turn creates errors, and doesn't allow teams to run the lines as much as they would like to, we i feel, fall into this category.

Because we can't run the ball as much as we do at the dome, on the MCG, we are forced to go wide and bring the ball in. Either pumping the ball long to a short forward line, or being forced to pinpoint a pass to a small leading player in a pocket. When we do get the ball running through the middle of the ground, our small forwards have to lead wide anyway. Because we can't put the ball up a little in the air for a key target to jump and mark, our small forwards have to lead out wider.

It's just one of the problems with our team, the other being that the structure of the team is flawed. We don't have a solid spine from FB, all the way to FF.

That is spot on, although I would say most sides now rely on precision footy, and denying the other side possession, that is why forward pressure and tackling have become more prevalent. Our lack of a genuine harrassing small crumber (similar to Rioli) also hurts us (the lack of which could also be attributed to a big forward to feed him,as well as a need for small crumbers like Aker to play leading forward roles...)

[macca]

I disagree I would say Hill, Giansiracusa and Griffen all had shockers.

HIll still doesn't know how to lead, and tries to take too many marks with his leap. That won't work if you get out bodied and out muscled by the likes of Enright.

Griffen was slow and lacked any composure today. Reid would have been a better choice, at least he would not have made so many turnovers.

Gia doesn't look fit

We lacked instinct today, and to many times, hesitated, and missed the first option, and got killed by Geelong. It only takes a split second against a good team like Geelong to kill us. The two superb goals by ling and Bartel on 50, near the boundary summarises what is required to step up. Griffen got out marked by Bartel, and Ling just had too much room.

Everything goes up a gear in finals, and we were napping in the first quarter.

Eagleton was usless today, and can't take a contested mark. Minson got outmarked too many times by Ottens. Why can't he just take front position and at least bring the ball down?

I had my doubts about Welsh playing back, but he provided good value today. Lake/Welsh swap could be a good ploy.

Stokes killed Harbrow in the air today.

The whole team needs to be switced on right from the beginning. You just can't allow teams like jump to 5 goal lead, and expect to win.

[bornadog]

I disagree I would say Hill, Giansiracusa and Griffen all had shockers.

Gia was the best of that bunch with three goal assists, and 4 inside 50's. Should have nailed a goal as well.

[Sedat]

We got beaten today for 3 reasons:

- Some senior players didn't stand up to be counted when the pressure was on.
- We played a couple of guys that were underdone.
- A higher portion of unforced skill errors than would normally be acceptable hurt us.
I thought the biggest problem today was the frankly dumb delivery into our forward 50 that played right into the hands of Scarlett, Enright, Mackie, Kelly, Taylor. Bombing it in hope was the complete opposite of our smart delivery and spreading of the forward 6 to make Geelong's defenders accountable two weeks ago.

Also the Cats were running on the spot in the last 15 minutes yet we allowed them to run down the last 6 minutes of the clock by not manning up. Might not have made a difference but surely we could have gone one-on-one as soon as they started icing the clock.

[bornadog]

I thought the biggest problem today was the frankly dumb delivery into our forward 50 that played right into the hands of Scarlett, Enright, Mackie, Kelly, Taylor. Bombing it in hope was the complete opposite of our smart delivery and spreading of the forward 6 to make Geelong's defenders accountable two weeks ago.

Also the Cats were running on the spot in the last 15 minutes yet we allowed them to run down the last 6 minutes of the clock by not manning up.

Spot on Sedat, we just didn't make use of our opportunities We mainly lost this game in the first quarter. We held Geelong to one shot at goal in the second quarter and we should have kicked more. They also only kicked one in the last quarter. In the third quarter a couple of errors and turnovers also made it hard to come back from 36 points down.

Overall, that first quarter was a disaster.

[LostDoggy]

We werent switched on across the ground, we had players down more than normal and the ball really did not bounce our way but we still could have beaten the best team going around in the last 3 years if we had taken our chances late or not let them get so far ahead early.

Lots of bagging of Griff, Gia and Hahn here but one of these guys will win us a game before the year is out.

We get Brisbane in Melbourne next week, lets see how we feel after that game.

[alwaysadog]

A very flat performance, didn't look switched on early and little sparkle throughout and we still went close. In the end poor kicking cost us.

[LostDoggy]

A very flat performance, didn't look switched on early and little sparkle throughout and we still went close. In the end poor kicking cost us.

Geelong also missed a lot of easy shots, I don't think you can say that. We played poorly and were out classed by a better team.

[Remi Moses]

I thought the biggest problem today was the frankly dumb delivery into our forward 50 that played right into the hands of Scarlett, Enright, Mackie, Kelly, Taylor. Bombing it in hope was the complete opposite of our smart delivery and spreading of the forward 6 to make Geelong's defenders accountable two weeks ago.

Also the Cats were running on the spot in the last 15 minutes yet we allowed them to run down the last 6 minutes of the clock by not manning up. Might not have made a difference but surely we could have gone one-on-one as soon as they started icing the clock.

Agree I thought the same. You can have Lockett at FF and we would have struggled. Also we were under more pressure than a fortnight ago and self implied pressure on some occassions.Also lost count how many Cat players got out the back in the first quarter when they had the ball in the back 50

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This is the one I have most issue with.

I'll name them.

Giansircusa - absolute rubbish game. I once got heckled for criticising his soft approach but I've got him in my sights again. He doesn't put his head over the ball. He is slow. He often takes the wrong option (ie passing to Eagleton on the boundary surrounded by cats. He makes sure it's an overhead marking contest as we all know Eagle is so good in the air). He always, I repeat always, slips or goes to ground at the hint of a contest. I've had it with him. Fit or not fit he cost us badly today.

Hahn - Arguably worst on ground. Gave us nothing. Kicked out on the full when we need a senior player to kick a needed goal. On one occassion Johnson and Gilbee fought hard to get the ball out of defence, Hahn was the upfield option but he didn't present. He just stood there. I went off my head. He is slow, doesn't work hard enough and once again exposed in the heat of finals football.

Eagleton - We all know he doesn't put his body on the line. Today was bad by even his standards. He had a great opportunity to cut off a lead when the Cats ran the ball from defence but opted not to go. Why do we kick it to him in one on one marking contests? I'll never know. His use of the ball was ordinary as well. His saving grace was he ran hard.

Johnno - Battles hard but 2 big issues today. Not kicking that goal in the last. The worst one was feigning for a free kick in a one on one in the last 1/4. He went to ground, no free kick and rightly so, Cats run away with it. Not good enough. Reminded me of the prelim last year.

Murphy - Doesn't seem to be able to step up in the pressure cooker of finals football.

I think the Bulldogs have to make some hard decisions at the selection table this week. I want to see sentiment thrown out the window. I am sick of seeing the same players making the same mistakes. It is obvious some of them cannot handle finals footy.

Out: Giansiracusa, Hahn

In: Reid and Everitt

Reid will put his body on the line and do the hard stuff and won't fall over unless hit by a tank. Everitt will offer a lot more than Hahn in terms of presenting and is a far superior kick. Give the young lions a go.

Great post Doc and I fully agree.

The same group of players tend to under perform in Finals every time. I really thought the likes of Gia and Murphy would help us get over the line today but they were nothing short of a liability. Gia's game was one of the worst I've seen from ANY player. He really couldn't do anything right. He was incredibly slow even by his standards, went to ground and was totally unaccountable.

Murphy is another I've lost any faith in too. He really struggles to influence big games. We've given him the injury excuse a couple of times in previous games but today he was dreadful. His disposal from a player of his calibre was pathetic.

Hahn is in the same boat. Never able to stand up when needed. His position should be looked at and as you suggested Doc, the duo of Gia/Hahn should really make way for the youth in Reid and Everitt. Dropping Reid who was in good form and improving each week really came back to bite us IMO.

It's really, really disappointing that the same players struggle to find anything in Finals. That includes Johnson, Eagleton, Minson, Gia, Hahn and Murphy. Obviously a few others had poor games (Hill, Harbrow to an extent) but they're young and have been integral components to our side over the last 12 months. The trio of Gia, Murphy and Hahn is a worry and I was disappointed in Griffen too. Granted - he was short of a gallop.

Doc's nailed the guys that consistently struggle to stand up. We really need to address this going forward.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why did we continually handball backwards? It put us under more pressure to dispose of the ball and as a result we coughed up at least 4 or 5 goals. After playing daring football for the last three weeks, we really went back into our shell and that for mine was most disappointing. I feel as though there's 6-8 players that struggle to stand up in the heat of Finals football. Naturally a couple of others aren't going to be at their best either, so when you combine the two then you're going to find it difficult to win the important games.

The delivery into the forward line was atrocious. Murphy was the biggest culprit for mine and especially early on. He looked up (among many others) and saw we were often out-numbered and out-sized, yet still hoisted the ball up in the air. It was just crazy, dumb football. Ward was about the only player who looked to spot up leading targets and Akermanis finished it off with some beautiful kicking. Very frustrating though.

We were un-accountable. Why? We refused to man up in the last 5-6 minutes. Geelong were struggling but we didn't give ourselves an opportunity to really put scoreboard pressure on them. Obviously missed opportunities hurt (Higgins, Johnson, Cooney) but at times we weren't focused at all. How many times did Geelong find a free player on the wing standing in 50m's of space? Ling and Corey did this quite a few times. Griffen was asleep on a few occasions. Really disappointing.

The Dogs weren't absolutely horrible but the trend of ordinary football in Finals continues. I thought we had turned the corner as far as this damning fact was concerned but sadly, we haven't. Our poor disposal coupled with our negative game of going backwards and our woeful decision making calls for 1-2 changes this week. We only lost by 14 points but IMO it felt more like a 5 goal loss with the way we played. Another great opportunity missed.

[Desipura]

This is the one I have most issue with.

I'll name them.

Giansircusa - absolute rubbish game. I once got heckled for criticising his soft approach but I've got him in my sights again. He doesn't put his head over the ball. He is slow. He often takes the wrong option (ie passing to Eagleton on the boundary surrounded by cats. He makes sure it's an overhead marking contest as we all know Eagle is so good in the air). He always, I repeat always, slips or goes to ground at the hint of a contest. I've had it with him. Fit or not fit he cost us badly today.

Hahn - Arguably worst on ground. Gave us nothing. Kicked out on the full when we need a senior player to kick a needed goal. On one occassion Johnson and Gilbee fought hard to get the ball out of defence, Hahn was the upfield option but he didn't present. He just stood there. I went off my head. He is slow, doesn't work hard enough and once again exposed in the heat of finals football.

Eagleton - We all know he doesn't put his body on the line. Today was bad by even his standards. He had a great opportunity to cut off a lead when the Cats ran the ball from defence but opted not to go. Why do we kick it to him in one on one marking contests? I'll never know. His use of the ball was ordinary as well. His saving grace was he ran hard.

Johnno - Battles hard but 2 big issues today. Not kicking that goal in the last. The worst one was feigning for a free kick in a one on one in the last 1/4. He went to ground, no free kick and rightly so, Cats run away with it. Not good enough. Reminded me of the prelim last year.

Murphy - Doesn't seem to be able to step up in the pressure cooker of finals football.

I think the Bulldogs have to make some hard decisions at the selection table this week. I want to see sentiment thrown out the window. I am sick of seeing the same players making the same mistakes. It is obvious some of them cannot handle finals footy.

Out: Giansiracusa, Hahn

In: Reid and Everitt

Reid will put his body on the line and do the hard stuff and won't fall over unless hit by a tank. Everitt will offer a lot more than Hahn in terms of presenting and is a far superior kick. Give the young lions a go.
You have hit the nail on the head. Talk of Gia to be made captain at the start of the season was crazy.
I will add that Minson was ordinary as well. Our ruck combo are very similar type players in that they play the crash and bash. Watching Mitch Clark take some marks in the backline last night made me think how handy is it to have an extra big man up in a marking contest down back?
What counts against both of them is that neither can go forward and hurt the opposition.
I agree with your outs, would bring in Reid and one out of left field, Tiller as a forward.
I stated we needed to tweak our game plan months ago as I could not see how we were going to take the next step in finals, nothing has changed.

[Mantis]

I would add Boyd & Cross to your list as well Doc.

They combined yesterday for a whopping 44 handballs and just 11 kicks, and each had just 2 clearances. Cross might be a little rusty, but the quality of possession was poor and I expect more from 2 of our more experienced players.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Why did we continually handball backwards? It put us under more pressure to dispose of the ball and as a result we coughed up at least 4 or 5 goals.




I would add Boyd & Cross to your list as well Doc.

They combined yesterday for a whopping 44 handballs and just 11 kicks, and each had just 2 clearances. Cross might be a little rusty, but the quality of possession was poor and I expect more from 2 of our more experienced players.

Our handball execution was very poor indeed

It wasn't just the fact we went backwards, we would often handball forward to teammates who had to jump to receive and then had to dispose of it whilst in the air as they were under pressure.

Boyd & Cross unfortunately had no impact at the stoppages, and we need to rethink how we are going to use them if they struggle like that again.

[DOG GOD]

Boyd & Cross unfortunately had no impact at the stoppages, and we need to rethink how we are going to use them if they struggle like that again.

I agree BR. Cross reads the play well and can take an overhead mark so why not play him around half back (or as a loose man role)IF he is struggling to make an impact in the midfield.

Boyd for me would make a good wingman as he links up well and has the tank to run all day.

Giving these guys other roles would also help their ability to KICK the ball. Far too many handballs for players of their ilk.

Definately start them in the centre, but if theyre getting smashed then give them other roles.

[Go_Dogs]

I think the major reason for the poor performance was lack of intensity.

We played poorly, turned the ball over and didn't work hard enough - but the reason Geelong won was because they simply did as they pleased. They took the ball effortlessly from defence, using the wide spaces on the MCG so that we could not shut them down and swamp the ball carrier ala Etihad a few weekends ago.

They were constantly able to spot up marks inside 50. I don't have any stats, but at a guess they would have taken well over 3 times the number of marks inside 50 that we did.

The clearances, tackles, contested possessions etc all point to it being a pretty even game, but their pressure was fantastic, and ours left a lot to be desired. The end result was us under pressure, turning the ball over, choosing poor options and generally playing some of our worst football (which we seem to revert to under any genuine pressure more often than not). On the flip side, as soon as a turnover occurred, our ability to put pressure on them was very weak.

At a few times it appeared our intensity was lifting and we were going to attack the ball and the ball carrier and really go for the kill. We'd manage that for a few contests, and then it would drop off again.



I agree with the sentiments regarding Gia, although I still think he offers us a lot. His handball to release a player running into goal was great. As Doc has said though, he does go to ground too often, is too slow and can often take the wrong option and/or execute poorly by foot.

If Gia is fit enough, a role in the centre square would be my bet. He can use his quick hands in close in there, and going to ground and moving slowly won't hold him back too much. Missy gives us better value up forward for now for mine, so perhaps he can play the Gia role.


I'm not sure it's time for sweeping changes at the selection table, as I'm still confident this group can do the required job. Our intensity, endeavor and willingness to pull every man over the line needs to get better. We can still win this thing, and hopefully we come out swinging next week with a bit of dash and show the world our best football.

[alwaysadog]

Geelong also missed a lot of easy shots, I don't think you can say that. We played poorly and were out classed by a better team.

All of the above are true, but missed shots by mooney are legion while our better kickers missed when it counted.

My point is that in spite of being a poor second most of the day we had our chances to win.

[alwaysadog]

I think the major reason for the poor performance was lack of intensity.

We played poorly, turned the ball over and didn't work hard enough - but the reason Geelong won was because they simply did as they pleased. They took the ball effortlessly from defence, using the wide spaces on the MCG so that we could not shut them down and swamp the ball carrier ala Etihad a few weekends ago.

They were constantly able to spot up marks inside 50. I don't have any stats, but at a guess they would have taken well over 3 times the number of marks inside 50 that we did.

The clearances, tackles, contested possessions etc all point to it being a pretty even game, but their pressure was fantastic, and ours left a lot to be desired. The end result was us under pressure, turning the ball over, choosing poor options and generally playing some of our worst football (which we seem to revert to under any genuine pressure more often than not). On the flip side, as soon as a turnover occurred, our ability to put pressure on them was very weak.

At a few times it appeared our intensity was lifting and we were going to attack the ball and the ball carrier and really go for the kill. We'd manage that for a few contests, and then it would drop off again.



I agree with the sentiments regarding Gia, although I still think he offers us a lot. His handball to release a player running into goal was great. As Doc has said though, he does go to ground too often, is too slow and can often take the wrong option and/or execute poorly by foot.

If Gia is fit enough, a role in the centre square would be my bet. He can use his quick hands in close in there, and going to ground and moving slowly won't hold him back too much. Missy gives us better value up forward for now for mine, so perhaps he can play the Gia role.


I'm not sure it's time for sweeping changes at the selection table, as I'm still confident this group can do the required job. Our intensity, endeavor and willingness to pull every man over the line needs to get better. We can still win this thing, and hopefully we come out swinging next week with a bit of dash and show the world our best football.


Excellent post Griffin #16. Couldn't have said it better myself.

It's a bit like my 96 yo mother she puts her most precious things in secret places so that no one steals them and then we all look for them when she forgets where the secret place is.

Now where did we put our intensity, if necessary we should report it to the police and call the bloodhounds into the training centre.

[AndrewP6]

[B]
Umpiring didn't have a massive impact - BUT, I would have much preferred a 21 point margin at qtr time, and that Bartel HTB on Cross was a CLEAR in the back.


How about Bartel's play-on not called for his 3rd goal? Or the 19 men on the field in the first...

[LostDoggy]

How about Bartel's play-on not called for his 3rd goal? Or the 19 men on the field in the first...

Didn't know about that, what happened?

[The Pie Man]

How about Bartel's play-on not called for his 3rd goal? Or the 19 men on the field in the first...

Oooh yeah that was off - this guy near me ripped into Griffen for not getting to Bartel in time for that mark, goals from that pocket in the 3rd hurt us.

Ladies in the row behind me were bleeding at Minson's 50 for their first goal - harsh as it was, it was technically the right call from the ump. It's a strange rule : say you're on the mark and you see you're man start to take off, you can start your action to close him down/tackle and have play on called in that motion before you get to touch the player and it be play on - but if the ump is too slow with it and you tackle before the play on call, you've blown it. Very fine line

Like JH40, I didn't know about the 19 on the ground - was that Milburn? I saw him stop dead on the boundary line while in stride onto the ground, like he was yelled at right at the last minute to stop.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I must say, Morris hasn't had a great season. He's been beaten quite a few times this year and again on Saturday. Is he carrying anything? I don't mind if he gets beaten in the contest, but the worry is that he's rarely in the actual contests anymore. He seems to be caught 5m's behind his opponent every time. Mooney killed him with this a number of times. Morris used to have the best closing speed at the club IMO, rarely was ever 'out' of a contest. I wonder if he's carrying something because he's been poor more so than he's been good lately.

[bulldogtragic]

Poor 'team' effort. Need to show some of the form from the past 3 weeks to overcome a confident Brisbane. Something we can absolutely do if 22 players contribute.

[LostDoggy]

I know what you are saying but imagine if the game went largely to today's script and we fell 14 points short despite playing Everitt and Reid.
My guess is that we would have a lot of people saying that we should have played Griffen and Giansiracusa and we lacked the heart to play the quality guys.

Hindsight probably confirms that they were underdone however, having the balls to not include them would have been a very gutsy selection.

Agree, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it seems to me that all year, the selectors haven't really had the intestinal fortitude to drop some of the senior players who have had patchy form all season?? Personally, I felt that Griff, whilst he tried hard, was very underdone, and either Everitt or Reid would have been a better choice. It remains to be seen just what the selectors do this week. I am not totally gutted about yesterday, but very disappointed that when it counts, we seem to bring our B game. I want the A game back, pleeeeeze:(

[BulldogBelle]

I think the major reason for the poor performance was lack of intensity.

We played poorly, turned the ball over and didn't work hard enough - but the reason Geelong won was because they simply did as they pleased. They took the ball effortlessly from defence, using the wide spaces on the MCG so that we could not shut them down and swamp the ball carrier ala Etihad a few weekends ago.

They were constantly able to spot up marks inside 50. I don't have any stats, but at a guess they would have taken well over 3 times the number of marks inside 50 that we did.

The clearances, tackles, contested possessions etc all point to it being a pretty even game, but their pressure was fantastic, and ours left a lot to be desired. The end result was us under pressure, turning the ball over, choosing poor options and generally playing some of our worst football (which we seem to revert to under any genuine pressure more often than not). On the flip side, as soon as a turnover occurred, our ability to put pressure on them was very weak.

At a few times it appeared our intensity was lifting and we were going to attack the ball and the ball carrier and really go for the kill. We'd manage that for a few contests, and then it would drop off again.



I agree with the sentiments regarding Gia, although I still think he offers us a lot. His handball to release a player running into goal was great. As Doc has said though, he does go to ground too often, is too slow and can often take the wrong option and/or execute poorly by foot.

If Gia is fit enough, a role in the centre square would be my bet. He can use his quick hands in close in there, and going to ground and moving slowly won't hold him back too much. Missy gives us better value up forward for now for mine, so perhaps he can play the Gia role.


I'm not sure it's time for sweeping changes at the selection table, as I'm still confident this group can do the required job. Our intensity, endeavor and willingness to pull every man over the line needs to get better. We can still win this thing, and hopefully we come out swinging next week with a bit of dash and show the world our best football.


Why we lost. Skills and Intensity.

We they had the ball we didnt man up, we didnt chase and run and harass as much or as hard as they did.

We we had position of the ball we didnt stream forward in huge numbers, we waited, and mucked around.

If we ran harder, with and without the ball we would have one, they also got so many easy centre clearances...

Our skills at times were woeful, and again we caved under their pressure...

We lost by 14 points, and possibly if the game was played for another 10-15 minutes we would have won....I'm actually so sick of our slow starts...we cant give teams like Geelong a decent lead after the 1st quarter

Aker player well up forward, Gilbee player well, as did Lake, Cross and Boyd...Hudson tried hard all day...

[LostDoggy]

Why we lost. Skills and Intensity.

We they had the ball we didnt man up, we didnt chase and run and harass as much or as hard as they did.

We we had position of the ball we didnt stream forward in huge numbers, we waited, and mucked around.

If we ran harder, with and without the ball we would have one, they also got so many easy centre clearances...

Our skills at times were woeful, and again we caved under their pressure...

We lost by 14 points, and possibly if the game was played for another 10-15 minutes we would have won....I'm actually so sick of our slow starts...we cant give teams like Geelong a decent lead after the 1st quarter

Aker player well up forward, Gilbee player well, as did Lake, Cross and Boyd...Hudson tried hard all day...

Great post and I totally agree - our intensity was sorely lacking, as were our hand and foot skills.

[AndrewP6]

I must say, Morris hasn't had a great season. He's been beaten quite a few times this year and again on Saturday. Is he carrying anything? I don't mind if he gets beaten in the contest, but the worry is that he's rarely in the actual contests anymore. He seems to be caught 5m's behind his opponent every time. Mooney killed him with this a number of times. Morris used to have the best closing speed at the club IMO, rarely was ever 'out' of a contest. I wonder if he's carrying something because he's been poor more so than he's been good lately.

Not sure I agree...Morris, IMO is one of our most reliable...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not sure I agree...Morris, IMO is one of our most reliable...

Lake, Hargrave and even Gilbee have defended better than Morris this year IMO. He set such a high bar that anything less would stand out and unfortunately this year I don't think he's been as reliable. Granted he's had to play out of his weight division most weeks, but he's being led to the ball far too often. Not sure if it's an injury concern or whether he's just not reading the play but I've seen seen him so out of position. Certainly not our worst performer by any stretch of the imagination, rather it's just an observation.

[Sedat]

* Cooney kicking out on the full. We had kicked the first 2 goals after half time to get within 9 points & from the resultant free kick Ling goaled, Geelong through Ablett got the centre take away & goaled again. 2 goals within a minute, just took the wind out of our sails.
It was a poor kick from Cooney but it was an errent handpass (not to mention backwards and at the feet of Cooney) from Lake that put unnecessary pressure on Cooney to dispose of it quickly. We saw the best and worst of Brian yesterday.

[Sedat]

I would add Boyd & Cross to your list as well Doc.

They combined yesterday for a whopping 44 handballs and just 11 kicks, and each had just 2 clearances. Cross might be a little rusty, but the quality of possession was poor and I expect more from 2 of our more experienced players.
They weren't quite as ineffectual as they were against Hawthorn in the corresponding match last season, but I haven't seen too many more inconsequential 55 possessions collected in a game of football than those racked up by Boyd and Cross yesterday. Neither player has taken a final by the scuff of the neck.

I went to the St Kilda v Collingwood final today and the ferocious intensity, especially early, was a sharp reminder to us of what the required standard is for premiership success. I look at someone like Riewoldt, who runs himself and his opponent to sheer exhaustion just to provide a get-out target for his teammates upfield. And then I look at Hahn just standing there as Doc alluded to, and when our mids are crying for some movement and a target to kick to, there is nothing. When we are static as a football team, we are dead.

If we are lucky enough to get over Brisbane this week, how the hell are we going to compete with the intensity and defensive desire of St Kilda the following week? There really does need to be a couple of changes made so that we have as close to 22 commited and desperate foot soldiers all pulling together for the common cause. We didn't come close to having that yesterday, and unfortunately for this playing group it wasn't an isolated occurance.

[Happy Days]

Not sure I agree...Morris, IMO is one of our most reliable...

He's lost pretty much every week since the West Coast game. Was a much better player last year.

[Stefcep]

watching both geelong and st kilda this week confirmed that the half back line is where these teams live and die. its where the ferocity of their tackling is making it hard to penetrate, its where their run comes from when they set up their next attack.

[Desipura]

It was a poor kick from Cooney but it was an errent handpass (not to mention backwards and at the feet of Cooney) from Lake that put unnecessary pressure on Cooney to dispose of it quickly. We saw the best and worst of Brian yesterday.
Spot on, its easy to be critical of Cooney cos he kicked it on the full. I made mention at the time that errant handball from Lake gave Cooney 2 less seconds to dispose of the ball.

[Mantis]

They weren't quite as ineffectual as they were against Hawthorn in the corresponding match last season, but I haven't seen too many more inconsequential 55 possessions collected in a game of football than those racked up by Boyd and Cross yesterday. Neither player has taken a final by the scuff of the neck.

I went to the St Kilda v Collingwood final today and the ferocious intensity, especially early, was a sharp reminder to us of what the required standard is for premiership success. I look at someone like Riewoldt, who runs himself and his opponent to sheer exhaustion just to provide a get-out target for his teammates upfield. And then I look at Hahn just standing there as Doc alluded to, and when our mids are crying for some movement and a target to kick to, there is nothing. When we are static as a football team, we are dead.

If we are lucky enough to get over Brisbane this week, how the hell are we going to compete with the intensity and defensive desire of St Kilda the following week? There really does need to be a couple of changes made so that we have as close to 22 commited and desperate foot soldiers all pulling together for the common cause. We didn't come close to having that yesterday, and unfortunately for this playing group it wasn't an isolated occurance.

But when our leaders and senior players aren't setting the example what hope do we have?

The lack of intensity was poor (same as last years QF), if our players can't get 'hyped' over playing in a QF what hope do we have? At no stage did we get 'to a player' after a key moment or get really celebrate a goal. Geelong were shitting themselves at several times, but the lack of emotion & energy from our team was disturbing. If it was me out there I would have celebrated the key moments to send a message that we ain't done with yet. Our boys just trudged to the next contest like nothing had happened. It is ok to show a little bit of emotion and passion occassionally and show that you do actually care a little.

[LostDoggy]

But when our leaders and senior players aren't setting the example what hope do we have?

The lack of intensity was poor (same as last years QF), if our players can't get 'hyped' over playing in a QF what hope do we have? At no stage did we get 'to a player' after a key moment or get really celebrate a goal. Geelong were shitting themselves at several times, but the lack of emotion & energy from our team was disturbing. If it was me out there I would have celebrated the key moments to send a message that we ain't done with yet. Our boys just trudged to the next contest like nothing had happened. It is ok to show a little bit of emotion and passion occassionally and show that you do actually care a little.

Which tells me that we are a better team than we give ourselves credit for.

To me, a lot of this 'intensity' business comes from belief. This group of players have the hunger (as evidenced by the last three, very good, wins of the season), the anger (after last year's prelim loss), and the form, but I think the missing ingredient is the belief that they can really mix it with the big boys at the business end of the season.

It comes with the territory of being the Dogs, I suppose, and until this group actually claims a big, big scalp in September (all their finals wins haven't been against the top teams), the self-doubts will remain.

That was the main difference between the Cats and the Dogs for me, in the first quarter, when the game was won and lost -- the Cats ran around like they belonged (misguided or not), and the Dogs were behaving like Cinderella who had just been invited to the ball for the first time, and when they finally woke up, it was just a little bit too late.

[LostDoggy]

Which tells me that we are a better team than we give ourselves credit for.

To me, a lot of this 'intensity' business comes from belief. This group of players have the hunger (as evidenced by the last three, very good, wins of the season), the anger (after last year's prelim loss), and the form, but I think the missing ingredient is the belief that they can really mix it with the big boys at the business end of the season.

It comes with the territory of being the Dogs, I suppose, and until this group actually claims a big, big scalp in September (all their finals wins haven't been against the top teams), the self-doubts will remain.

That was the main difference between the Cats and the Dogs for me, in the first quarter, when the game was won and lost -- the Cats ran around like they belonged (misguided or not), and the Dogs were behaving like Cinderella who had just been invited to the ball for the first time, and when they finally woke up, it was just a little bit too late.

Lantern, you are so right. It just seems that on the big stage in September, we get stage fright or something. I really thought this group did have the "belief" in themselves, but they seemed so over-awed in the first quarter, and let Geelong get away. Yes, we need to win against BrisVegas, but then do the same to the Saints.

[Mantis]

Which tells me that we are a better team than we give ourselves credit for.

To me, a lot of this 'intensity' business comes from belief. This group of players have the hunger (as evidenced by the last three, very good, wins of the season), the anger (after last year's prelim loss), and the form, but I think the missing ingredient is the belief that they can really mix it with the big boys at the business end of the season.

It comes with the territory of being the Dogs, I suppose, and until this group actually claims a big, big scalp in September (all their finals wins haven't been against the top teams), the self-doubts will remain.

That was the main difference between the Cats and the Dogs for me, in the first quarter, when the game was won and lost -- the Cats ran around like they belonged (misguided or not), and the Dogs were behaving like Cinderella who had just been invited to the ball for the first time, and when they finally woke up, it was just a little bit too late.

We showed for much of the PF last year that we belong at this level. Just 2 of our players were playing in their first finals appearance so I don't go along with the thoughts that we were over-awed. It really shits me that we played like poo yet lost by just 14 points, we have let another golden opportunity slip. We have Geelongs measure, but for some reason or another we can't deliver the knock-out blow.

However we live to fight another and must do it the hard way now, but really, as Bulldogs we know no other way.

[LostDoggy]

We showed for much of the PF last year that we belong at this level. Just 2 of our players were playing in their first finals appearance so I don't go along with the thoughts that we were over-awed. It really shits me that we played like poo yet lost by just 14 points, we have let another golden opportunity slip. We have Geelongs measure, but for some reason or another we can't deliver the knock-out blow.

However we live to fight another and must do it the hard way now, but really, as Bulldogs we know no other way.

Yes, but we still lost comfortably, and it can be argued that we performed as we did because there was no pressure (which is when we tend to show up). This group's record of wins since 2006 in finals have been against Collingwood and Sydney, both of which weren't serious contenders in either year, interspersed with huge losses to grand finalists West Coast and Hawthorn, and last years prelim loss to Geelong. There hasn't any big scalp in September for this group to TRULY believe that they have what it really takes to go all the way, which is why this was such an opportunity missed. If we had won this game, the momentum would have been huge, not just for this year, but for the next few.

The next two weeks are huge ones in the history of this footy club. Win them and make the GF, and we set up the culture for the next few years; lose them, or go out in straight sets, and watch this team go backwards until the next generation of players steps up to the plate.

[Mantis]

The next two weeks are huge ones in the history of this footy club. Win them and make the GF, and we set up the culture for the next few years; lose them, or go out in straight sets, and watch this team go backwards until the next generation of players steps up to the plate.

Certainly is.

This group (most of them) have been together for some time now. If they don't find a way to play their best over the next few weeks a few tough calls need to be made. The same players don't stand up when we need them to so we need to find some players who will.

Barring an absolute disaster this week the PF game sets up as a career defining game for as many as 12 to 15 of our players. If they blow it they need to be punished.

[Desipura]

Alot of posters on here felt like we just had to turn up against Geelong as they had a few players out. Remember everyone celebrating that we has finished 3rd and playing Geelong who we match up well against?
Perhaps the players felt a little relieved playing Geelong as well?
Cannot think of too many who took into account that they have been the best team (win/loss ratio) in the last 3 years.

[Mantis]

Alot of posters on here felt like we just had to turn up against Geelong as they had a few players out. Remember everyone celebrating that we has finished 3rd and playing Geelong who we match up well against?
Perhaps the players felt a little relieved playing Geelong as well?
Cannot think of too many who took into account that they have been the best team (win/loss ratio) in the last 3 years.

We do. If we had played St.Kilda and played like we did against Geelong they would have been beaten us into submission. We can and should have beaten Geelong.

Another factor is that we now get the chance to play Brisbane rather than a white-hot and well rested Adelaide. I know who I would much rather be playing.

[Desipura]

We do. If we had played St.Kilda and played like we did against Geelong they would have been beaten us into submission. We can and should have beaten Geelong.

Another factor is that we now get the chance to play Brisbane rather than a white-hot and well rested Adelaide. I know who I would much rather be playing.

Dont disagree with this, wont mean much if we do not beat Brisbane this week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Certainly is.

This group (most of them) have been together for some time now. If they don't find a way to play their best over the next few weeks a few tough calls need to be made. The same players don't stand up when we need them to so we need to find some players who will.

Barring an absolute disaster this week the PF game sets up as a career defining game for as many as 12 to 15 of our players. If they blow it they need to be punished.

Agreed Mantis.

Pretty much summed it up. If the same group of players don't deliver, it's got to be the last straw. We've blown one huge chance this year. I really thought we had turned the corner in this regard but the lack of intensity and passion was a real worry. If we don't make the Grand Final, I would think a few names should come up for trade.

[Dry Rot]

If we don't make the Grand Final, I would think a few names should come up for trade.

Who are you thinking of?

Interesting that if we don't make the GF (and I don't think we'll get past the Saints) then a few here are now effectively coming round to my view of doing a rebuild. Our window will have closed with this team (if it was ever open).

[GVGjr]

Who are you thinking of?

Interesting that if we don't make the GF (and I don't think we'll get past the Saints) then a few here are now effectively coming round to my view of doing a rebuild. Our window will have closed with this team (if it was ever open).

I certainly won't be coming around to the rebuild POV. We need to follow the Adelaide model of the occasional dip without having to bottom out and we are well placed to follow that example.

[Mantis]

I certainly won't be coming around to the rebuild POV. We need to follow the Adelaide model of the occasional dip without having to bottom out and we are well placed to follow that example.

Neither will I, but if we don't grasp our opportunity this year we need to make some changes to the list and to the personnel we select on a regular basis.

[LostDoggy]

When was the last time Adelaide missed the finals? I know they hadn't won a finals for a few years. Since Ayres?

I think if we lose this week, I doubt we will ever make it with the majority of the current squad. I think the stima of poor finals performances will be much to fix. I think the majority of the 97 squad never got over that prelim loss.

However I do remember North had a number of years ending at the prelim before they won their 90s flags. I do like the Adelaide model.

[The Pie Man]

Can't find the results, though I remember Carlton having a poor 94 finals series with an ageing team, and then winning the flag convincingly in 95

I didn't see St Kilda winning 20 games this year

[Topdog]

Really if the same players fail there still isn't a lot we can do.

Hahn is still under contract and no one would trade for him.
Murphy we can't get rid of as he is too important.

Ideally we'd be pushing Grant in but he doesn't seem ready yet.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I certainly won't be coming around to the rebuild POV. We need to follow the Adelaide model of the occasional dip without having to bottom out and we are well placed to follow that example.


Neither will I, but if we don't grasp our opportunity this year we need to make some changes to the list and to the personnel we select on a regular basis.

Yep.

Definitely not a rebuild, but certainly a re-adjustment if we fall over again. The "St. Kilda" approach has to be adopted in that the senior players aren't going to be gifted games based on prior performances. If Murphy, Hahn, Gia, Eagleton etc. aren't playing well enough - they should be dropped. The Saints have proven it works with Ball, Max, Dal Santo and Milne.

I wouldn't be against trading one of Cross, Murphy or Giansiracusa though. I really think these three stumble badly in Finals.

I'd be surprised if Hahn is still in our 22 next year too.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't be against trading one of Cross, Murphy or Giansiracusa though. I really think these three stumble badly in Finals.


Who do you propose to get for one of these? I doubt we will get what we want/need with just one. Also someone already mentioned we are playing the loyality card with Lake, you can throw that out if we trade one of these.

[GVGjr]

Neither will I, but if we don't grasp our opportunity this year we need to make some changes to the list and to the personnel we select on a regular basis.

As you would be aware I am keen to change the list around by about 6 or 7 players this year because IMO we need to acquire some good players and cast adrift those who can't measure up.
Whilst some think that's a massive change, I don't see it that way and it's certainly not an approach that breaks the list down and enters a rebuild phase.
Teams outside of the 8 need to rebuild whereas we just need to improve our list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who do you propose to get for one of these? I doubt we will get what we want/need with just one. Also someone already mentioned we are playing the loyality card with Lake, you can throw that out if we trade one of these.

I'm not aware of opposition player's existing contracts so I really couldn't tell you with any conviction. I'd be looking at improving certain areas though and paying particular attention to consistency. All of Murphy, Gia and Hahn struggle with it. Their best is very good but how often do we see it? For example, I'd much rather a player like LeCras as opposed to Murphy. A similar player in that he's skillful and strong overhead, but perhaps more reliable. Obviously this wouldn't happen - but it's just an example.

I agree it's unlikely we would get what we want/need but I think it's an option we should explore at the very least. I'm tired of the same group of players not standing up when we really need them. I think we overrate a couple of these quite a lot, too.

The loyalty thing is always the problem though, isn't it. I suppose that's something the club would need to consider and speak to the leadership group about. I would rather the club be premiership driven rather than loyaly driven, personally.

We're in a difficult situation if we stumble again.

[Mantis]

The loyalty thing is always the problem though, isn't it. I suppose that's something the club would need to consider and speak to the leadership group about. I would rather the club be premiership driven rather than loyaly driven, personally.

We're in a difficult situation if we stumble again.

I was talking to a few posters about this very thing at the Williamstown game and it brought up an interesting discussion.

At the end of the '98 season a decision was made by Wallace and co. that we needed an injection of pace. Nathan Eagleton was traded for from Port and we lost Stephen Powell & Brett Montgomery. We had quite a few like players for these 2, Libba & Romero for Powell and Smith, Dent and Cameron for Monty. From what you hear this trade wasn't well received within the club, but I thought at the time and still think that it was potentially the right move. Wallace saw that we needed to change things up for us to take the step from PF team to GF team and tried to do something about it.

Looking back the move backfired as Eagleton took much longer to come on (I'm still waiting :p) as first thought and we fell down in other areas, but atleast Wallace gave it a crack.

I hope if we fall over again that Eade has the courage to try something similiar.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not aware of opposition player's existing contracts so I really couldn't tell you with any conviction. I'd be looking at improving certain areas though and paying particular attention to consistency. All of Murphy, Gia and Hahn struggle with it.

Agree on Hahn, Murphy has had an interuppted couple of years with injury. Gia consistency prior injury was fine.


Their best is very good but how often do we see it? For example, I'd much rather a player like LeCras as opposed to Murphy. A similar player in that he's skillful and strong overhead, but perhaps more reliable. Obviously this wouldn't happen - but it's just an example.

Thats the problem the players we want don't come for free in trades. You want a player of LaCras age and skill its Murphy plus.
Just look at what Eagleton cost us all those years back.

I think it all depends on if we win or lose this week. Lost and I'd say yes we need a few wholesale changes.