Can the Dogs take the Choker Lead Off

[Jasper]

My first post here, so apologies if it comes across as over the top or inappropriate.

Over the years a number of players have let us down in big games, I wonder if this is a legacy of our lack of success as a club that causes/perpetuates mental pressure that causes otherwise champion players to fail in pressure situations.

Johnson and Cooney set shots in last quarter that were gettable.
Murph's disposal all game
Higgins (who iced a great shot late in the game but put one out on the full and missed an easy shot early)
Gia missing a mark and played poorly
Minson poor set shots and (again) poor marking/contesting in the fwd line.
Hahn goes missing under pressure

This game wasn't isolated, you can throw up senior names throughout the years even though they have been great servants (Murph and Johnson standout). Mid tier players such as Eagle and Hahn regularly let us down.

I'm not sure what we can do about it as a club, accept hope against hope we can win some big games and get the monkey off our back, I certainly don't think dropping or trading our guns is an option, its just a worry especially as next generation of players may absorb this culture...

[DOG GOD]

Winning a grand final will be the only thing to take that monkey off the back. We had a great chance today to get a little closer to that dream, but like the Cats prelim last year, we missed chances at costly times and couldnt get over the line.

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Welcome to Woof Kelvinator,

I have no doubt that the pressure to win one looms large over us just as it did Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood who faltered in finals for many years before finally breaking through.

However I think the example you've shown could be found similarly in any lost game of footy. Winning football games comes down to chances and taking them, and for any team who loses there will be moments to disect and think 'if only'.

My view is that looking over the journey of 22 rounds of footy, both the Cats and Geelong look that bit better than the rest and it was always going to take a supreme effort to beat Geelong today.

We faltered, and we now have to get back on the horse next week and show that we are able to challenge.

I have not thought at any stage this year that we are anything more than an outside chance of winning the flag this year. I'm not accepting second best, but with our personnel we need to be at 100% across all 22 players on the day to have a chance, and if a couple are down on the day, we will struggle against the Saints and Geelong.

[GVGjr]

Welcome about Kelvinator.

I've never regarded us as chokers and certainly don't think we choked today. Despite playing good footy leading into the finals we didn't have another level to answer their challenge. We didn't choke, we just weren't good enough today.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we're used to playing ..
A) on a saturday arvo
B) On the MCG
C) Finals intensity

[Jasper]

Welcome about Kelvinator.

I've never regarded us as chokers and certainly don't think we choked today. Despite playing good footy leading into the finals we didn't have another level to answer their challenge. We didn't choke, we just weren't good enough today.

Thanks for the welcome.
Well perhaps I overate our list, but I tend to think we are good enough, didn't we just beat Geelong two weeks ago and only just miss out earlier this year...or is it as I suggest we tense up under finals pressure and are a worse team in finals than other teams.

[GVGjr]

Thanks for the welcome.
Well perhaps I overate our list, but I tend to think we are good enough, didn't we just beat Geelong two weeks ago and only just miss out earlier this year...or is it as I suggest we tense up under finals pressure and are a worse team in finals than other teams.

It's about reaching for another level and we couldn't do that today. I rate our list as well but we didn't answer the challenge. The Cats played better than they did against us a couple of weeks back and we got caught napping in the first quarter. It's like they had the map to get where they wanted to go but we struggled to get our bearings.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Thanks for the welcome.
Well perhaps I overate our list, but I tend to think we are good enough, didn't we just beat Geelong two weeks ago and only just miss out earlier this year...or is it as I suggest we tense up under finals pressure and are a worse team in finals than other teams.

Kelvinator, we are a good outfit and on our day can smash anybody, the issue today was that we got jumped and let a couple slip in the 3rd quarter. If we had of been 10-12 points closer at 3/4 time the result would have been different.

See you next week, I think this is the loss we had to have, The boys will respond well and be better for the experience.

Thought that we also had 6-8 blokes with less than 2 game of Finals experience out their today.

Also I thought the ball just went their way today even the centre bouncing from the umps (AKA Maggots):rolleyes:

[Studentlib]

Yes the team absolutely needs a 100 minutes from all players to be competitive at finals level.
Murph, cooney, gia, cross are all carrying injuries that affect their kicking which today really hurt us. I don't so much blame Johnno for missing, he is getting to the stage where fatigue must affect his kicking in final quarter.
The greatest area of improvement will have to come from the sports psychology support team. Far too many players are mentally weak in as much as many seem unable to perform their tasks for a full game. Eade referred to it in his postmatch. Its been obvious all season that the pressure they put themselves under, due to skill errors and poor decision making creates turnovers and more pressure- a not so virtuous circle. A tough preseason of mental conditioning may be as valuable as physical conditioning.

[Remi Moses]

I just want to know in every Big Qualifying Final we resemble Deer in the Headlights. Players make schoolboy errors in the big games.:confused:

[Remi Moses]

Yes the team absolutely needs a 100 minutes from all players to be competitive at finals level.
Murph, cooney, gia, cross are all carrying injuries that affect their kicking which today really hurt us. I don't so much blame Johnno for missing, he is getting to the stage where fatigue must affect his kicking in final quarter.
The greatest area of improvement will have to come from the sports psychology support team. Far too many players are mentally weak in as much as many seem unable to perform their tasks for a full game. Eade referred to it in his postmatch. Its been obvious all season that the pressure they put themselves under, due to skill errors and poor decision making creates turnovers and more pressure- a not so virtuous circle. A tough preseason of mental conditioning may be as valuable as physical conditioning.

Why do we bring intensity for parts of a game then bring zilch for parts of it. Not Good Enough Dogs

[AndrewP6]

Not sure about us choking. I think the game was a fairly accurate indication of where we are - 3rd best team in the comp (fourth best, but for Johnno's last minute goal!)... the things that led to the loss aren't new for us, unfortunately.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure about us choking. I think the game was a fairly accurate indication of where we are - 3rd best team in the comp (fourth best, but for Johnno's last minute goal!)... the things that led to the loss aren't new for us, unfortunately.

Thats all well and good but it doesn't explain Geelong being 5ms in the clear all day. Nor does it explain the poor kicking/decisions. Overall the thing is we can play better than what we did. Choking exactly describes what players did yesterday. To many self doubters out there.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's not automatically a choke just because you lose.

At the moment Geelong are better than us. Only by a little bit and if things go right we can beat them.

29pts up early in the last and getting rolled is a choke.

[LostDoggy]

It's not automatically a choke just because you lose.

At the moment Geelong are better than us. Only by a little bit and if things go right we can beat them.

29pts up early in the last and getting rolled is a choke.

lol

Had the game gone 10 minutes longer Geelong may have been in this category.

[DOG GOD]

But brisbane had Brown and Bradshaw to kick to.

[AndrewP6]

Thats all well and good but it doesn't explain Geelong being 5ms in the clear all day. Nor does it explain the poor kicking/decisions. Overall the thing is we can play better than what we did. Choking exactly describes what players did yesterday. To many self doubters out there.

It does explain those things...we are 3rd/4th best team in the league, behind the likes of Geelong and St Kilda BECAUSE we give opposition too much space, we make poor decisions, and don't always make the most of opportunities. We can play better, but we don't always - we're inconsistent. Disappointing as it was/is, I wasn't that surprised by the result. As I said, I think it's pretty much indicative of where we're at.

[FrediKanoute]

I don't think we're used to playing ..
A) on a saturday arvo
B) On the MCG
C) Finals intensity

Totally agree! First thing I thought of when I was watching the game was how much space is there out there!

[boydogs]

I don't think we're used to playing ..
A) on a saturday arvo
B) On the MCG
C) Finals intensity

St Kilda seemed to adjust pretty well today despite not playing on the G this year before last week

[anfo27]

Thats all well and good but it doesn't explain Geelong being 5ms in the clear all day. Nor does it explain the poor kicking/decisions. Overall the thing is we can play better than what we did. Choking exactly describes what players did yesterday. To many self doubters out there.

The players just don't work hard enough for mine.

Missing easy goals in big games, isn't that what the yanks call the clutch & the poms call the bottle? We lacked someone who is a clutch player. We needed someone who was going to grab the game by the scruff of the neck & say to the boys, follow me lads i'll lead the way. As much as I love BJ & think he is a great leader, he is not clutch.

We are definately good enough but we lack the mental strength to rise to the occasion on the biggest stage when the presssure is at its greatest.

[AndrewP6]

The players just don't work hard enough for mine.

We lacked someone who is a clutch player. We needed someone who was going to grab the game by the scruff of the neck & say to the boys, follow me lads i'll lead the way.
.

Aker tried in the 3rd...but no one went with him :(

[anfo27]

Aker tried in the 3rd...but no one went with him :(

Aker is clutch

[Desipura]

Last years preliminary final Ealgeton fails to make the distance from 40 metres at a crucial stage.
Johnson misses a relatively easy goal at a crucial time in the last qtr on Saturday (did the same against Geelong earlier in the year and then there was the Nth game on the siren)
Cooney normally a reliable kick misses an easy goal by his standards.
If it was a penalty shoot out as in soccer, only Higgins & Aker would put their hand up to have a shot. The rest of them would freeze unfortunately.

[LostDoggy]

I just want to know in every Big Qualifying Final we resemble Deer in the Headlights. Players make schoolboy errors in the big games.:confused:

Agree. First quarter cost us the game. So many passengers in that first quarter that let the game basically slip. :mad:

[ratsmac]

I'm sick of thinking about this missed opportunity, and I think the players would be to. The players all know who failed the team and lets just hope that they have enough heart to be able to lift for the next game and so on. COME ON DOGGIES JUST 3 MORE WINS.

[LostDoggy]

I've never regarded us as chokers and certainly don't think we choked today. Despite playing good footy leading into the finals we didn't have another level to answer their challenge. We didn't choke, we just weren't good enough today.

We're not technically chokers, I agree, because we tend to fight back quite well from bad positions -- however, I think that this tends to lend credibility to the fact that we are no good under pressure.

The loss to West Coast in 2006 couldn't be regarded as a choke because we were really outclassed (much as Essendon was on Friday). However, when you play a team that you just beat 2 weeks ago and give up 8 of the first 10 goals when the game is up to be won, I think that is entitled to be classified as a genuine stumble under pressure, which is very close to being a choke.

mjp made a point after the terrible loss to the Eagles THIS year that we should give the players credit for fighting back as often as we have this year -- but while it is creditable that this group doesn't throw in the towel and are clearly the best 4th quarter team in the league, it is actually an indictment on the players that they only turn it on for one or two quarters a game, when if they could play even close to that level for four quarters they would have won, and won easily.

---

Also, a fish rots from the head -- Bartel kicks a pressure goal in the third quarter from 50 out in the pocket, while our leaders Cooney and Johnno miss gimmes (for players of their quality) in the fourth just when it was getting interesting.

No one will call Coons or Johnno chokers, but they're not strangers to the postcode.

[LostDoggy]

I've never regarded us as chokers and certainly don't think we choked today. Despite playing good footy leading into the finals we didn't have another level to answer their challenge. We didn't choke, we just weren't good enough today.

Oh, also -- today is the operative word here. We're definitely good enough to mix it with anyone in the league at this point, structural issues notwithstanding, and if the players don't believe that, then they might as well just stay at home. In fact, all this talk about structural weaknesses is just a furphy at this point and actually gives the players an excuse for their failures in September: a tall forward doesn't help you man up any better, after all, does it.