Ins and Outs - Second Final

[bornadog]

Unless there are injuries, I doubt Eade will make any changes.

[Mantis]

Unless there are injuries, I doubt Eade will make any changes.

Why not?

It was obvious that a few of our players didn't produce their best today. Why should they be immune to not finding there way out of the team?

[soupman]

Why not?

It was obvious that a few of our players didn't produce their best today. Why should they be immune to not finding there way out of the team?

So who do you drop? Those who played badly enough were Hargrave, Mitch Hahn, Daniel Giansiracusa, Ryan Griffen, Will Minson, Dale Morris and Liam Picken.

Hargrave and Morris are obviously way too important to our defensive structure, as is Hahn to our forward structure. Gia had another poor day, but would probably be in the top 10 selected and is considered a leader of the club. Minson is clearly in our best 2 ruckmna and helps out up forward. Ryan Griffen has shown he can perform in finals and is dangerous when he wants to be.

The only player we could potentially afford to drop is Picken in favour of a Reid or Everitt. Will they improve the side enough to justify the change? I figure we only make a change to either facilitate Williams return, or if somebody is injured.

Eade has shown all season he will play our best 22 regardless of form. Why would this change during the finals.

[Mantis]

Picken should have spent more time in the midfield. We were out-paced in there and it killed us on the scoreboard.

Gia & Eagleton should be looked at in my opinion. Eagleton's use of the ball was very poor and it hurt our chances (especially in the 2nd qtr). Gia looked horribly slow in a fast paced game and unless he eats some 'scooby snacks' his position in the team must come under scrutiny.

Hargrave & Murphy were also very poor, but they should have a few credits to keep them in the side.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Hargrave was VERY poor. How about when he completely took his eyes off the ball and got lost.

[LostDoggy]

I think we should remain unchanged and persist with our best 22 for 'this season', next season will be a different story.

Our 3 worst today in Griff, Hahn and Gia are match-winners and game-breakers on another day. I dont see how Williams would have helped today. Its very concerning to see consistent servants like Morris so far from his nominated opponent on a few occasions but no one mentions his name and rightly so but I think think the aforementioned 3 should be given benefit of the doubt to control and inspire next week.

The big question mark for me is on Murph, he is so damn important to us but he is only damaging when he has 100% faith in his body, he cant seem to take a trick at the moment and can even be a liablility when he is not right. I dont think resting him next week is the right choice because he takes a game or two to settle but we can beat the lions without him. I just dont think he is right whereas Gia or Griff could turn the corner this week.

If I was the selectors I would play the same team but move Murph to a HBF or into the sweeper role to take the pressure off him and find some form.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gia shouldn't play. He was horrible. Slow, un-accountable and passive in the contests. He gave us nothing and it was possibly his worst game for the club on the back of two ordinary performances. Reid has been very good - form must be rewarded.

In: Reid
Out: Gia

If Everitt plays well tomorrow they might think about him too. This group of players need a little tinkering because they've fallen over in Finals one too many times. Be it fitness or a lack of, we can't play all of Gia/Griff/Murph. One of them has to make way for Reid.

[LostDoggy]

Everitt and Reid in, Gia and Griffin out.

[DOG GOD]

Everitt and Reid in, Gia and Griffin out.


Thats what it should be but it wont be.

If eade is asked the question we will hear "Griff should be better for the run against the cats, and Gia is getting back to full fitness with each passing game".

I doubt any changes.

The best way to show faith in the 22 is to not make a change and make it known that he thinks the 22 against the cats can do the job.

[1eyedog]

Why not?

It was obvious that a few of our players didn't produce their best today. Why should they be immune to not finding there way out of the team?

Because he has been so reluctant to in the past. I can't see Eade tinkering either, be very surprised actually. IMO this has been an unhealthy component of Eade's decision making all season.

[LostDoggy]

For me, Eade seems to play the best 22 players at the club & not ones which will match up well and win games.

We are crying out for more height in the team, and with Williams out, Everitt seems the only good option at this stage.

[DOG GOD]

Spot on JH40.

[Mantis]

Because he has been so reluctant to in the past. I can't see Eade tinkering either, be very surprised actually. IMO this has been an unhealthy component of Eade's decision making all season.

Agree with that.

At some point in time a tough call needs to be made and that time is now. Rocket has put a lot of faith in this group and they continue to let him down when it comes to the crunch.

[Rance Fan]

They wont change, sadly.
Would like Everiit and Reid in though.

Who takes Bradshaw and Brown??

Lake and Morris?? hmmmm... Williams not back

[Sockeye Salmon]

It would be a good time for Reid to be BOG today.

Gia is clearly unfit and I would bet good money he won't play this week.

[bulldogtragic]

Out: Hahn
In: Everitt

Gia should be spelled too, but won't be...

[The Pie Man]

Welsh played ok plugging holes in the backline - which was a bit of a surprise, but he has the right build....which made me think 'wouldn't mind two of those'

Depending on form today (is Willy on tv today?)

In : Everitt, Tiller
Out : Hahn.....ahh maybe Hill - I'd say Gia but it won't happen...actually none of this will happen, unless they make a call that Murphy's knee isn't up to it.

[Go_Dogs]

I think we'll go in un-changed, although I guess how a few blokes go at Willy may have bearing on it.

I don't feel it's time for radical changes, and most of our cattle are up to it.

Hill and Hahn are the ones who (will) come under fire imo, but I think Hill could be better used perhaps further up the ground. Hahn's finals record is poor, but he is really our barometer, and it is probably no surprise that his poor finals record coincides with ours.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we'll go in un-changed, although I guess how a few blokes go at Willy may have bearing on it.

I don't feel it's time for radical changes, and most of our cattle are up to it.

Hill and Hahn are the ones who (will) come under fire imo, but I think Hill could be better used perhaps further up the ground. Hahn's finals record is poor, but he is really our barometer, and it is probably no surprise that his poor finals record coincides with ours.
Hahn a part from one thread this year has really escaped any scrutiny. Yes he will kick 5 against an undermaned backline every now and then, but am really frustrated by him at the moment. I think Everitt, Tiller and Reid offer more.

[Go_Dogs]

Hahn a part from one thread this year has really escaped any scrutiny. Yes he will kick 5 against an undermaned backline every now and then, but am really frustrated by him at the moment. I think Everitt, Tiller and Reid offer more.

Perhaps you're right, but I think it works both ways with Hahn. I didn't give him votes against the Pies last week, but he was certainly one of our most important players that night - not many people even mentioned him.

It's not just the goals that Hahn kicks either, but his other work which is so important for us. I think he gets another opportunity, and if he lets himself down badly again, then perhaps we make the change.

[mighty_west]

I'm not too sure if there will be any changes for next week, we arguably have our best team on the park right now, you can argue each way with or without Williams.

But we have noticed when Williams does come back into the team after a lay off [there have been far too many of those], he usually takes a few games to get back into any decent form, so it would be a risk to play him imo, especially with that added intensity of finals footy, it's like another step up again from home & away AFL footy.

I also like stability in the side, was a risk to play Griffen straight up after an injury and coming straight into a finals atmosphere, he will be better for that run.

[LostDoggy]

Everitt and Reid in, Gia and Griffin out.

You have got to be kidding ... Give Gia/ Griffen a chance .. coming back from injury .. experience in finals. So you would rather play two kids with no finals experience.?.. knee jerk reaction...

[Mantis]

Reid has to play next week. We need some guys in and around the ball who can tackle and Reid fits the bill.

[azabob]

IN: Everitt, Reid, Tiller

OUT: Minson, Hahn (clearly injured), Welsh

With Brisbane's mobile rucks I think both Hudson and Minson will struggle to keep up with Clarke and Brennan.

I think an underdone Gia offers more than an underdone Hahn.

[dogman]

Out Hahn / In Everitt

Everitt will be required to matchup on one of the more mobile taller brisbane players. If Everitt was playing yesterday I would have played him on Scarlett, would have been a better option then what we did yesterday.

Hahn has done nothing for about 5 weeks, injured or not he has to go.

Eade also hinted that he has had enough of one particular player not following basic orders and sick of just having to repeat themselves to him every week. Wonder who he was referring to. I'm hoping its Eagleton:D

[boydogs]

I think this is one of the few times this year the selectors can be justified in saying 'No Change'. Sure, yesterday they were shown to be wrong in playing Griffen but he will only improve next week. There were too many senior players that under-performed for selection changes to fix things.

Get the 22 in a room, let them know they have been the nominated 'best 22' all year that have been kept in the side despite form fluctuations and that they are the 22 that need to repay the faith, make amends for yesterday and play to instruction with the intensity required to beat the best sides in a final for four quarters.

[boydogs]

Reid has to play next week. We need some guys in and around the ball who can tackle and Reid fits the bill.

Ward, Picken and Griffen have been tackling well this year. Reid should have played for Griffen this week but I would keep Griff in now

[Mantis]

I think this is one of the few times this year the selectors can be justified in saying 'No Change'. Sure, yesterday they were shown to be wrong in playing Griffen but he will only improve next week. There were too many senior players that under-performed for selection changes to fix things.

Get the 22 in a room, let them know they have been the nominated 'best 22' all year that have been kept in the side despite form fluctuations and that they are the 22 that need to repay the faith, make amends for yesterday and play to instruction with the intensity required to beat the best sides in a final for four quarters.

But for how long do you keep the faith with players who continually let us down when push comes to shove?

[LostDoggy]

Hahn always plays well against Brisbane, probably the reason they tried to lure him over a couple of years ago, keep him in. Griffin - I would rather have Reid, and Gia - well maybe he needed those two games to get some form.

[Go_Dogs]

IN: Everitt, Reid, Tiller

OUT: Minson, Hahn (clearly injured), Welsh

With Brisbane's mobile rucks I think both Hudson and Minson will struggle to keep up with Clarke and Brennan.

I think an underdone Gia offers more than an underdone Hahn.

Minson certainly won't get dropped, and Welsh was alright yesterday. Not a standout, but probably slightly ahead of the majority.




Reid has to play next week. We need some guys in and around the ball who can tackle and Reid fits the bill.

Who do you see as the player to move out then?

Griffen wasn't great yesterday, but he has been a proven finals performer and will be better second game back. As far as like for like, Boyd and Cross weren't fantastic yesterday, but neither of them are going to be dropped and neither should they.

I'm not disagreeing with you, because Reid had a few pretty good weeks, but I'm not sure who he comes in for, and how much more he'll add in the finals pressure cooker. Defensively he'll do alright, but his ball use will not improve us, neither will his fitness.

[Mantis]

Who do you see as the player to move out then?

Griffen wasn't great yesterday, but he has been a proven finals performer and will be better second game back. As far as like for like, Boyd and Cross weren't fantastic yesterday, but neither of them are going to be dropped and neither should they.

I'm not disagreeing with you, because Reid had a few pretty good weeks, but I'm not sure who he comes in for, and how much more he'll add in the finals pressure cooker. Defensively he'll do alright, but his ball use will not improve us, neither will his fitness.

Gia. He isn't fit and it his last 2 performances have been poor.

We need players who are good in a contest and Gia hasn't been over the past 2 games.

[Go_Dogs]

Gia. He isn't fit and it his last 2 performances have been poor.

We need players who are good in a contest and Gia hasn't been over the past 2 games.

Yeah, seems about right to me. Not going to be an easy call for Rocket to make though.

[Mantis]

Yeah, seems about right to me. Not going to be an easy call for Rocket to make though.

Terribly tough call, but it's one that I feel has to be made.

[DOG GOD]

Eade will play Gia coz of his "leadership ability" if anything else.

[Mofra]

Gia & Eagleton should be looked at in my opinion. Eagleton's use of the ball was very poor and it hurt our chances (especially in the 2nd qtr). Gia looked horribly slow in a fast paced game and unless he eats some 'scooby snacks' his position in the team must come under scrutiny.
I though Gia & Hahn were our worst. I actually thought Eagle was one of our better performers for the day, the way he just kept running so when we were running the ball he provided an option that stopped them slowing our ball-speed down.

Eade has shown a wilingness to give players credits on past performances, so I don't think there will be any changes. Gia would be first out if I was on the match commitee though.

I'd be looking at Reid & Everitt to come in. I like Tiller & Callan but Reid & Everitt have recent good form at senior level (albeit 1 game in Skinny's case).

[BulldogBelle]

The player that I think would really add value this week would be Everitt

Play him on the half forward line alongside Murphy and a rotation of Hahn, Gia, Johhno, Welsh, Aker and possibly Hill

Rocket wasnt too happy with Hill in the press conference...didnt mention his name but I'm quite sure he was reffering to Hill with his extra memory / additional k comment.

Maybe Hill is the man to drop...he gave us one goal yesterday, and in the pressure cooker of finals football, he isnt offering us too much at present


Agree that Hahn hasnt performed well, although against Brisbane he was OK and against Geelong and Collingwood (H&A season) he was OK as well...he isnt chasing enough, doesnt get of the ground in marking contests and isnt laying as many tackles as usual...

Gia is another senior player who Rocket will want to keep because of his experience, and the fact that he is still building towards full fitness, I didnt mind some of Gia's games last year in the finals series...the guy cant change direction quickly, and is just running slowly, doesnt have the match conditioning that he needs to play finals football...plus we have probably flogged him on the track trying to get him back to full fitness

[Mantis]

Reid has to play next week. We need some guys in and around the ball who can tackle and Reid fits the bill.

On what I saw at Williamstown Reid won't play next week. His groin soreness really effected him today and he spent much of the 2nd half on the bench.

[LostDoggy]

On what I saw at Williamstown Reid won't play next week. His groin soreness really effected him today and he spent much of the 2nd half on the bench.

Umm, no change then you think? Maybe Everitt to come in for..........could be a few in the mix!

[Mantis]

Umm, no change then you think? Maybe Everitt to come in for..........could be a few in the mix!

I only saw the 2nd half, but in what I saw Everitt was pretty quiet. I thought Stack was quite good and could give us a bit of a spark up forward.

[LostDoggy]

I only saw the 2nd half, but in what I saw Everitt was pretty quiet. I thought Stack was quite good and could give us a bit of a spark up forward.

Strange, you would think that Everitt would have played his heart out, knowing he may have been a chance for next week? Stackilicious eh, Rocco will be happy if he gets picked :D

[LostDoggy]

Any chance we bring in another tall defender say Tiller?

[DOG GOD]

If reid and everitt didnt do anything then its a given there will be NO change.

[FrediKanoute]

I think there has to be a spot for Everitt in the side. Reid I'm less certain of though. One guy I was really disappointed with was Minson. I know he's a big lumbering hulk of a guy, but yesterday he really gave us nothing (wasn't alone). Would we gain anything by dropping Minno for Everitt?

[azabob]

I think there has to be a spot for Everitt in the side. Reid I'm less certain of though. One guy I was really disappointed with was Minson. I know he's a big lumbering hulk of a guy, but yesterday he really gave us nothing (wasn't alone). Would we gain anything by dropping Minno for Everitt?

I said we should drop Minson earlier in this thread as Brisbane rucks are quite mobile and Minson was fairly non exitant yesterday. At least Everitt may be able to provide us some more run.

But their will be only one change if any this week.

[FrediKanoute]

Rocket wasnt too happy with Hill in the press conference...didnt mention his name but I'm quite sure he was reffering to Hill with his extra memory / additional k comment.

Maybe Hill is the man to drop...he gave us one goal yesterday, and in the pressure cooker of finals football, he isnt offering us too much at present

I think dropping Hill would be a bad idea. The prob;em yesterday had little to do with the forwards.....we got murdered in the midfield, there was no pressure, which allowed the Cats to smother our forwards. I really was the exact opposite to 2 weeks ago.

[craigsahibee]

I thought Hargrave was VERY poor. How about when he completely took his eyes off the ball and got lost.

Shaggy has credits in the bank. He was looking for some aerial support when chapman took that mark. Shaggy doesn't play too many bad games consecutively.

Eagleton for Reid is my tip, but I doubt it will happen.

[LostDoggy]

I said we should drop Minson earlier in this thread as Brisbane rucks are quite mobile and Minson was fairly non exitant yesterday. At least Everitt may be able to provide us some more run.

But their will be only one change if any this week.

Everitt rucking in his second game against the leagues form ruck?
Collingwood dropped Cam Wood cos he was crap against Everitt.

[craigsahibee]

I think we should remain unchanged and persist with our best 22 for 'this season', next season will be a different story.

Our 3 worst today in Griff, Hahn and Gia are match-winners and game-breakers on another day. I dont see how Williams would have helped today. Its very concerning to see consistent servants like Morris so far from his nominated opponent on a few occasions but no one mentions his name and rightly so but I think think the aforementioned 3 should be given benefit of the doubt to control and inspire next week.

The big question mark for me is on Murph, he is so damn important to us but he is only damaging when he has 100% faith in his body, he cant seem to take a trick at the moment and can even be a liablility when he is not right. I dont think resting him next week is the right choice because he takes a game or two to settle but we can beat the lions without him. I just dont think he is right whereas Gia or Griff could turn the corner this week.

If I was the selectors I would play the same team but move Murph to a HBF or into the sweeper role to take the pressure off him and find some form.

Murphy out of the goal square? Push every one else up the ground, strangle the midfield and take Merrett out of the game.

[azabob]

Everitt rucking in his second game against the leagues form ruck?
Collingwood dropped Cam Wood cos he was crap against Everitt.

I understand that, but when Brennan goes into the ruck who runs with him?

[LostDoggy]

I understand that, but when Brennan goes into the ruck who runs with him?

We beat Brisbane already at their ground 3 weeks back with Minson and Hudson rucking against Clarke and Brennan.
If defensive changes need to be made its another tall defender.

[bornadog]

Why not?

It was obvious that a few of our players didn't produce their best today. Why should they be immune to not finding there way out of the team?

He hasn't dropped players for form reasons the whole season.

[Mantis]

He hasn't dropped players for form reasons the whole season.

Best we start as our season will soon be over if we don't.

[bornadog]

We need structure down back. I would be bringing in Williams if he is ready or Tiller.

I don't like Welsh going down back and playing a loose man. Its too defensive and we don't win games when we are defensive, we win games when we can move the ball quickly into the forward line and kick big scores. We need to kick 15 plus goals. Four to half time is where we lost the game.

Welsh in my opinion has done nothing the whole season.

Gia I thought wasn't as bad as some people think. At least he had 3 goal assists and 4 inside 50's. Mitch Hahn is the baorometer of the doggies, if he plays well the team plays well.

Changes:

In: Williams/Tiller
Out: Welsh

[boydogs]

But for how long do you keep the faith with players who continually let us down when push comes to shove?


Best we start as our season will soon be over if we don't.

The best game of our 23rd player is not enough, we need our senior players to play to their best. We have to back the senior guys in to have any chance. It's too late in the year to make a statement, or get continuous games into alternative players. Eade chose to give them every chance from the start of the year and maintain a consistent and stable side - these guys have the experience, know the gameplan and have shown before they can perform at a high level.

Would I give them a rocket? Absolutely, they need to know they have let the coach, their team mates and their fans down. Rodney will no doubt let the indivduals know who he is sick of not playing to instructions behind closed doors. Would I drop them? Only if I had completely lost faith in them ever again producing their best to give younger guys finals experience, as I don't think you can win a premiership with a bunch of kids.

Trading and delisting is another matter

[comrade]

n.

Gia I thought wasn't as bad as some people think. At least he had 3 goal assists and 4 inside 50's. Mitch Hahn is the baorometer of the doggies, if he plays well the team plays well.


I never understand the whole 'Hahn is our barometer' thing. Mitch Hahn only plays well when the team plays well, not the other way IMO.

Cooney and Griffen are true barometers - they have the ability and play in positions that truly influence a game when they're on song.

[boydogs]

Mitch Hahn only plays well when the team plays well, not the other way IMO.

I agree with you but barometer = indicator of performance not igniter

[G-Mo77]

You'd probably like to think there would be a change but I think we'll stay with the same 22. Griffen was down, Gia was down but both have had significant time on the sidelines so I think they'll be spared. Reading the Willy reports there really isn't anyone knocking the door down to get back in.

[azabob]

I never understand the whole 'Hahn is our barometer' thing. Mitch Hahn only plays well when the team plays well, not the other way IMO.

Cooney and Griffen are true barometers - they have the ability and play in positions that truly influence a game when they're on song.

Comrade; Is it time? Time for Bouman to come in and be the 3rd tall defender?:D

Seriously would Bouman would be a better option than Williams when he's fit?

[anfo27]

We beat Brisbane already at their ground 3 weeks back with Minson and Hudson rucking against Clarke and Brennan.
If defensive changes need to be made its another tall defender.

We did beat Brisbane but Mitch Clarke destroyed us. I don't think it matters who is in the 22 as this week will be a walk in the park. Rocket won't make any changes, he has proven time & again performance is not the major factor in selecting HIS best 22.

If i was rocket i would drop Hudson for Everitt. This is not on performance but match ups, Everitt showed against Collingwood he can be a valuable player as a follower. Against Brisbane Mitch Clarke is our biggest worry & Hudson is not the answer.

[jazzadogs]

We did beat Brisbane but Mitch Clarke destroyed us. I don't think it matters who is in the 22 as this week will be a walk in the park. Rocket won't make any changes, he has proven time & again performance is not the major factor in selecting HIS best 22.

If i was rocket i would drop Hudson for Everitt. This is not on performance but match ups, Everitt showed against Collingwood he can be a valuable player as a follower. Against Brisbane Mitch Clarke is our biggest worry & Hudson is not the answer.
Treason.

Everitt for Hill. I agree with an earlier poster who thinks Rocket was referring to Hill with his post-match comments about some players not doing what he asks. I think Hill has the potential to add a lot to our side, but hasn't been doing much lately.

[LostDoggy]

We did beat Brisbane but Mitch Clarke destroyed us. I don't think it matters who is in the 22 as this week will be a walk in the park. Rocket won't make any changes, he has proven time & again performance is not the major factor in selecting HIS best 22.

If i was rocket i would drop Hudson for Everitt. This is not on performance but match ups, Everitt showed against Collingwood he can be a valuable player as a follower. Against Brisbane Mitch Clarke is our biggest worry & Hudson is not the answer.

If Clarke 'destroyed' us playing such an influential position then Brisbane would have won the game. He was very good and ours weren't as good but it didn't make a difference. It wasn't were the game was won and lost. I doubt it will be this time as well.

Ablett destroyed us yesterday and Clarke's game 3 weeks back doesn't compare.

I don't understand this totally defensive matchup mentality. Our rucks are good enough to take up to the opposition, for them to worry about matchups more than us.

Also Everitt's intensity is questionable, he should have knocked the door down today. You want to change him for someone that gave us some spark in the second quarter.

[Topdog]

Hudson killed Clarke last time round. Hudson managed to get 16 pos. against Brisbane which is way over his average. Also had 19 HO's and won 3 free kicks against Clarke. Don't let the commentators love fest with Clarke get in the way of reality.

[LostDoggy]

Hudson killed Clarke last time round. Hudson managed to get 16 pos. against Brisbane which is way over his average. Also had 19 HO's and won 3 free kicks against Clarke. Don't let the commentators love fest with Clarke get in the way of reality.

Thank you

[LostDoggy]

Our best performance for the year was against a full Geelong outfit in round 9 when Aker and Johnno kicked 8 between them

They weren't at full strength.

Mooney, Milburn, Ottens and Byrnes all didn't play that game, Gamble went off injured early & Chapman done his hammy.

[Mantis]

The best game of our 23rd player is not enough, we need our senior players to play to their best. We have to back the senior guys in to have any chance. It's too late in the year to make a statement, or get continuous games into alternative players. Eade chose to give them every chance from the start of the year and maintain a consistent and stable side - these guys have the experience, know the gameplan and have shown before they can perform at a high level.

Would I give them a rocket? Absolutely, they need to know they have let the coach, their team mates and their fans down. Rodney will no doubt let the indivduals know who he is sick of not playing to instructions behind closed doors. Would I drop them? Only if I had completely lost faith in them ever again producing their best to give younger guys finals experience, as I don't think you can win a premiership with a bunch of kids.

Trading and delisting is another matter

I agree that it's probably too late to make a statement exclusion, but the senior players we have discussed in this thread aren't performing at the level required so I would be changing things up.

I do disagree that our 23rd player won't make a difference. For our team to perform well we need a consistent output across the board, when we play poorly it is because the same players play poorly and we only have 10 or 12 guys who play at the level we require.

I would also be happy to play kids and allow them to fail as I am getting quite sick of the same players letting us down when we are under the pump as they do not learn from their mistakes. Atleast the kids may learn a lesson and be better for the experience.

[The Pie Man]

We need structure down back. I would be bringing in Williams if he is ready or Tiller.


I reckon Williams might play

All respect to Brisbane, but they're up against it on Friday, and we really should win this comfortably. Eade may see this as a better opportunity to get some match fitness in a finals atmosphere into Williams' legs than a run at Willy. Precedent being Gia in round 21.

I'd drop Hahn, but Hill would be the more likely out.

[anfo27]

If Clarke 'destroyed' us playing such an influential position then Brisbane would have won the game. He was very good and ours weren't as good but it didn't make a difference. It wasn't were the game was won and lost. I doubt it will be this time as well.

Ablett destroyed us yesterday and Clarke's game 3 weeks back doesn't compare.

I don't understand this totally defensive matchup mentality. Our rucks are good enough to take up to the opposition, for them to worry about matchups more than us.

Also Everitt's intensity is questionable, he should have knocked the door down today. You want to change him for someone that gave us some spark in the second quarter.

Brisbane didn't win the game because they are not in the same league as us. Mitch Clarke could of played the game of his life and we still would have won.

I disagree with you on our rucks. Hudson may have second efforts & give 110% but around the ground he is crap, too slow & can't kick.

I agree with you on Everitt but his mobility against the pies was important.

At the end of the day it won't matter cause we could play Cam Wight & Skipper in the ruck & we would still win. Against the saints i wouldn't even consider Everitt

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think dropping Hill would be a bad idea. The prob;em yesterday had little to do with the forwards.....we got murdered in the midfield, there was no pressure, which allowed the Cats to smother our forwards. I really was the exact opposite to 2 weeks ago.

I think exactly the opposite. It wasn't their midfielders who slaughtered us it was their backline - Scarlett was best on for mine, Enright was close and Milburn and even Wojinski burnt us time and time again.

It wasn't just that our forward line got slaughtered one-on-one, it was the lack of pressure as Geelong ran it back out.

[Mantis]

I think exactly the opposite. It wasn't their midfielders who slaughtered us it was their backline - Scarlett was best on for mine, Enright was close and Milburn and even Wojinski burnt us time and time again.

It wasn't just that our forward line got slaughtered one-on-one, it was the lack of pressure as Geelong ran it back out.

Who helps to fix that?

[The Coon Dog]

Who helps to fix that?

Hahn, Johnson & Murphy! ;)

[Mantis]

Hahn, Johnson & Murphy! ;)

Why would they start picking up and chasing now?

[LostDoggy]

Why would they start picking up and chasing now?
Also no need to chase as much if they keep possession and reduce the indiscriminate bombing to the forward line.

[Desipura]

Who helps to fix that?
Bring in Callan and play Harbrow as a forward

[Mantis]

Bring in Callan and play Harbrow as a forward

One of the reasons why we have improved as a side is because Harbrow had added another dimension to our side in defence. Why change that now?

How about we bring in some forwards who will chase?

[Desipura]

One of the reasons why we have improved as a side is because Harbrow had added another dimension to our side in defence. Why change that now?

How about we bring in some forwards who will chase?

Back at you, who would fix that?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Bring in Callan and play Harbrow as a forward

Don't fix what aint broke.

It's not necessarily a personnel issue - our forward pressure against Brisbane and Geelong was great - Ross Lyon has even got Stephen Milne to chase - it's a mindset that everyone must embrace.

[LostDoggy]

What about Callan as a defensive forward?

[Mantis]

Back at you, who would fix that?

A half fit Gia won't. He has to be dropped, no ifs, buts, maybes.

On what I saw yesterday I would be happy for Stack to play this week in place of Gia.

[Desipura]

On what I saw yesterday I would be happy for Stack to play this week in place of Gia.
Hmm big call to bring in Stack.

[Mantis]

Hmm big call to bring in Stack.

The 'easy' calls have got us into this position.

Too much faith shown which hasn't been backed up by good performances.

[Desipura]

The 'easy' calls have got us into this position.

Too much faith shown which hasn't been backed up by good performances.
Im with you Mantis in that tough calls need to be made.

[Mantis]

Im with you Mantis in that tough calls need to be made.

It all comes down to a couple of things:

1. Risk - Will the MC take one?

2. Backlash - How will the 'senior core' react if a Gia or Hahn get the boot?

Take the risk, stand by your convictions and if backlash occurs deal with it appropriately. If our players had performed like they should have on Saturday we wouldn't be in this position.

[Ozza]

Geez boys can we all calm down a bit here.

We didn't play particularly well on the weekend - and we nearly had a chance to pinch it. Its disappointing - but have some faith that we will respond this weekend with our best 22 players.
Geelong were red hot early and we fought back - probably didn't deserve to win - but had we have executed better - we may have stolen a win.

When did Reid and Everitt and Tiller suddenly become gun players and the answer. Good VFL players at absolute best with a fair way to go and potentially soild players in the future - lets not get carried away.

[Mantis]

Geez boys can we all calm down a bit here.

We didn't play particularly well on the weekend - and we nearly had a chance to pinch it. Its disappointing - but have some faith that we will respond this weekend with our best 22 players.
Geelong were red hot early and we fought back - probably didn't deserve to win - but had we have executed better - we may have stolen a win.



Only George Michael should talk about faith. ;)

I am getting a little sick & tired of getting to the same point and the players who have had 'faith' stowed upon them continually letting us down.

Time for a few of our boys to step up to the plate.

[Ozza]

Only George Michael should talk about faith. ;)

I am getting a little sick & tired of getting to the same point and the players who have had 'faith' stowed upon them continually letting us down.

Time for a few of our boys to step up to the plate.

You've completely jumped off us after a 2 goal loss. Of course we'd have preferred a victory - I'm as disappointed as you are - but it is completely different to last years Hawthorn loss. Our boys showed a fair bit of character and stayed in the game - and while we are still there we are a chance.

Wholesale changes are not going to make us a better side and I don't agree that the players you have mentioned were as bad as you've said.

For mine, too many WOOFers have been 'jumping off' any time we have a loss. After the WCE loss we responded with 3 fantastic wins. So I will (and presumably George Michael will) keep the faith for now!

[Mofra]

When did Reid and Everitt and Tiller suddenly become gun players and the answer. Good VFL players at absolute best with a fair way to go and potentially soild players in the future - lets not get carried away.
Nobody is suggesting they are gun players - I'd suggest that Reid & Tiller are tough types and team-oriented types who would make a difference in terms of tackling & chasing pressure which we sorely lacked vs Geelong. Reid & Ward had 17 tackles between them vs Geelong in Rd 21, that's the sort of pressure that wins games.

I'd prefer a guy harrassing the opposition on turnovers than the guy who is either coming back from injury or simply too slow to actually get to a contest.

[Desipura]

- I'm as disappointed as you are - but it is completely different to last years Hawthorn loss.
For mine, too many WOOFers have been 'jumping off' any time we have a loss. After the WCE loss we responded with 3 fantastic wins.
Geelong do not have a buddy Franklin & Roughead in their forward line. If we win this week, lets see how we fare against Riewoldt and Kosi.
Second point, our 3 fantastic wins were during the home and away, NOT FINALS.

[Ozza]

Geelong do not have a buddy Franklin & Roughead in their forward line. If we win this week, lets see how we fare against Riewoldt and Kosi.
Second point, our 3 fantastic wins were during the home and away, NOT FINALS.

I must be wrong. Its obviously time for crisis talks after a 2 goal loss to a quality outfit.

Would everyone feel more comfortable if I said:
"We can not accept this"
"Changes need to be made"
"We should not accept mediocrity"
etc etc etc.

[Mantis]

You've completely jumped off us after a 2 goal loss. Of course we'd have preferred a victory - I'm as disappointed as you are - but it is completely different to last years Hawthorn loss. Our boys showed a fair bit of character and stayed in the game - and while we are still there we are a chance.

Wholesale changes are not going to make us a better side and I don't agree that the players you have mentioned were as bad as you've said.

For mine, too many WOOFers have been 'jumping off' any time we have a loss. After the WCE loss we responded with 3 fantastic wins. So I will (and presumably George Michael will) keep the faith for now!

Where have I said that?

We have made it extemely hard for ourselves now and after getting over this week I am not sure we have the ability to beat St.Kilda. Look our best can beat the Saints, but I am just not sure we can/ will produce it in a highly pressured environment.

I am not doubting the character of our team, we are a bloody fit side so we were always going to run the game out strongly, but I doubting the ability of our team to take the next step. I hope I am proved wrong.

[jitboy]

Who helps to fix that?

I think our half forwards and midfield need to work their structure out. Often in the first quarter we would get the ball after a contest on our halfback line and handball handball handball to play on, but when the ball carrier looked up there were no 30m passing options at all. We'd all compressed into the back 50m. If they bombed it long to our fwd 50m line there was a static contest and the Cats had a spare man back.

Obviously there were coaching instructions, but I'm wondering if it was a case of the gameplan failed, or the players got over excited and didn't execute the plan.

[Ozza]

Where have I said that?

We have made it extemely hard for ourselves now and after getting over this week I am not sure we have the ability to beat St.Kilda. Look our best can beat the Saints, but I am just not sure we can/ will produce it in a highly pressured environment.

I am not doubting the character of our team, we are a bloody fit side so we were always going to run the game out strongly, but I doubting the ability of our team to take the next step. I hope I am proved wrong.

Mantis, I always read your posts - because you have really good opinions and good knowledge of the game. I just think you are being pretty negative after this loss and I don't think its that bad.

We won plenty of contested footy on the weekend, and I think our boys had a huge crack (as you alluded to above). I agree its going to be hard - but it is supposed to be hard. Geelong and St.Kilda are sensational sides - both have hardly lost a game all year - Geelong haven't lost many in 3 years - and we weren't favourites going in to the game. We know the Doggies are going to have to pull off something pretty special to win the flag this year.

I guess my point is - its going to be hard, its supposed to be hard - and the challenge of St.Kilda was always looming - so its all on the table now in front of us and our best chance is with our best 22 players. We didn't have a great game on saturday and only just got beaten - that first quarter was horrible - but I'm confident it is behind us now and we are going to play some really good footy. If thats good enough to beat Brisbane and St.Kilda then we get another crack at Geelong.

[Mantis]

Mantis, I always read your posts - because you have really good opinions and good knowledge of the game. I just think you are being pretty negative after this loss and I don't think its that bad.

We won plenty of contested footy on the weekend, and I think our boys had a huge crack (as you alluded to above). I agree its going to be hard - but it is supposed to be hard. Geelong and St.Kilda are sensational sides - both have hardly lost a game all year - Geelong haven't lost many in 3 years - and we weren't favourites going in to the game. We know the Doggies are going to have to pull off something pretty special to win the flag this year.

I guess my point is - its going to be hard, its supposed to be hard - and the challenge of St.Kilda was always looming - so its all on the table now in front of us and our best chance is with our best 22 players. We didn't have a great game on saturday and only just got beaten - that first quarter was horrible - but I'm confident it is behind us now and we are going to play some really good footy. If thats good enough to beat Brisbane and St.Kilda then we get another crack at Geelong.

But we have made it harder on ourselves than it should have been. We had a golden opportunity to have a dream run through to a GF, but we blew it (like we have in the past).

I am still bitterly disappointed with that performance, as I should be, but as you said we are still in with a fighting chance. When we get past Brisbane we will be in the spot we deserve to be, playing off for the right to play in a GF. Barring injuries this week, we will go into that game knowing we have the cattle and that we are just one good performance away from a GF berth. We have that good performance in us, I just want to see it in a game that counts.

[bornadog]

Mantis, I always read your posts - because you have really good opinions and good knowledge of the game. I just think you are being pretty negative after this loss and I don't think its that bad.

We won plenty of contested footy on the weekend, and I think our boys had a huge crack (as you alluded to above). I agree its going to be hard - but it is supposed to be hard. Geelong and St.Kilda are sensational sides - both have hardly lost a game all year - Geelong haven't lost many in 3 years - and we weren't favourites going in to the game. We know the Doggies are going to have to pull off something pretty special to win the flag this year.

I guess my point is - its going to be hard, its supposed to be hard - and the challenge of St.Kilda was always looming - so its all on the table now in front of us and our best chance is with our best 22 players. We didn't have a great game on saturday and only just got beaten - that first quarter was horrible - but I'm confident it is behind us now and we are going to play some really good footy. If thats good enough to beat Brisbane and St.Kilda then we get another crack at Geelong.

I completely agree with you Ozza, we just don't have many players outside of the current 22 that will lift us to the next level.

The players to consider are:

Tim Callan - has some finals experience, tough back pocket player.

Tiller - Reasonable sized player that can play tall, but hasnot been in great form. Did play well in last years finals.

Addison - Not in great form, although one of the better players on Sunday.

Williams - Desperately need his height, but coming back from a broken foot. Takes a while to get going, but maybe required going into the Saints and GF (if we get there)

Everitt - WOOFERS have bagged him the whole year, played one ok game against Collingwood and every one thinks he is the saviour, yet on Sunday, just didn't show the intensity required, particulatly in finals. Big year required in 2010.

Reid - no experience, has played, what 4 AFL games???

Stack - two AFL games, next year will be his year?

Wood - ditto.

Grant - one game and can't make Willi seniors either.

Skipper - gawn

Have I missed any one else that has played senior football?

So, the only Change I can see is what I said previously, ie one of Williams or Tiller to come in, but at the expense of who?

[mighty_west]

I wouldn't be making any changes, the likes of Gia & Mitch, a few others, played a shocker against the pussies, but we have got to where we are with those players in the side, especially come finals time, you need your leaders out there, replacing them with less experienced players would be too risky imo, the intensity levels grow a notch or 3, i'll back the likes of Hahn & Gia to lift, to bounce back, Griffen will also improve.

Tills played well in the finals last year, but unfortunatly for him, has been injured and at least played some games in the senior side leading up to those finals games, this year he hasn't, to risky for mine, have faith with what we have to get us where we are.

[jitboy]

Anyway on topic, I would say that in reality there will be no changes unless of injury.

On form for the Geelong match I would have kept Reid and left Griff out. I believe we needed one more inside midfielder, someone doing a job. Rather than having Griffen running about making poor decisions. It may have upset the balance. In the end both our outside runners in Eagle and Griff had shockers.

[Mantis]

Anyway on topic, I would say that in reality there will be no changes unless of injury.

On form for the Geelong match I would have kept Reid and left Griff out. I believe we needed one more inside midfielder, someone doing a job. Rather than having Griffen running about making poor decisions. It may have upset the balance. In the end both our outside runners in Eagle and Griff had shockers.

On what I witnessed yesterday at Willi Reid would have been a liability on Saturday. His groin problems meant that he couldn't run and he needs a spell.

[bornadog]

Just thought one from slight left field.

Minson to play FF the whole game. Rucks to be Hudson and Everitt. Everitt to run with Brennan.

[mighty_west]

Just thought one from slight left field.

Minson to play FF the whole game. Rucks to be Hudson and Everitt. Everitt to run with Brennan.


Who goes out for Everitt?

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't be making any changes, the likes of Gia & Mitch, a few others, played a shocker against the pussies, but we have got to where we are with those players in the side, especially come finals time, you need your leaders out there, replacing them with less experienced players would be too risky imo, the intensity levels grow a notch or 3, i'll back the likes of Hahn & Gia to lift, to bounce back, Griffen will also improve.

Tills played well in the finals last year, but unfortunatly for him, has been injured and at least played some games in the senior side leading up to those finals games, this year he hasn't, to risky for mine, have faith with what we have to get us where we are.

My sentiments precisely, I have said previously that one of Hahn, Griff, Gia or Murph will win us a finals game before the year is out.

I will add though that at the end of the season, if we have not achieved, then we really need to make some tough calls and make some fairly large game time (role and even 'best 22') investments into the guys like Everitt, Reid, Grant, Bouman, Stack, Roughhead and Cordy at the expense of under performing older guys.

[jitboy]

On what I witnessed yesterday at Willi Reid would have been a liability on Saturday. His groin problems meant that he couldn't run and he needs a spell.

Fair enough, that appears to be a big problem for him. Whenever he makes the seniors he seems to pull up lame.

[The Pie Man]

Who goes out for Everitt?

One of Hahn or Hill - I think Hill is realistically the most vulnerable, I heard Eade very briefly on MMM this morning in the car and Darcy asked him about Hill, and Eade said something like 'if he gets another chance he will have to redeem himself'

Also mentioned Everitt & Williams as potential ins (that was before I saw the article posted in Dog's Day were Fantasia ruled him out....not that that means anything concrete I spose)

[mighty_west]

My sentiments precisely, I have said previously that one of Hahn, Griff, Gia or Murph will win us a finals game before the year is out.

I will add though that at the end of the season, if we have not achieved, then we really need to make some tough calls and make some fairly large game time (role and even 'best 22') investments into the guys like Everitt, Reid, Grant, Bouman, Stack, Roughhead and Cordy at the expense of under performing older guys.

Yep, you pick out the experienced players especially that can't take the next step of finals footy and have a serious look at their future.

There are a few players that really need to put in 3 big games in the next 3 weeks, otherwise, like you said, tough calls might have to be made.

[Mantis]

Yep, you pick out the experienced players especially that can't take the next step of finals footy and have a serious look at their future.

There are a few players that really need to put in 3 big games in the next 3 weeks, otherwise, like you said, tough calls might have to be made.

I said exactly the same thing last year and nothing was done. The same players are still letting us down under pressure.

[mighty_west]

One of Hahn or Hill - I think Hill is realistically the most vulnerable, I heard Eade very briefly on MMM this morning in the car and Darcy asked him about Hill, and Eade said something like 'if he gets another chance he will have to redeem himself'

Also mentioned Everitt & Williams as potential ins (that was before I saw the article posted in Dog's Day were Fantasia ruled him out....not that that means anything concrete I spose)

The one thing about Hill, he has that X factor thing about him, no doubt he can go missing at times, but he also gives us more flexability up forward, i'd back him in finals intensity.

Hahn to me, if he plays well, we win, i'd back him in as well, he is also and has been very inconsistant throughout his career, not just now, i'd play him, and he would fit in the "if he doesn't step up in finals" he could be in trouble, when we apply to right amounts of midfield pressure & forward pressure, Hahn is in his element, if the team doesn't play that way, we will lose anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Just thought one from slight left field.

Minson to play FF the whole game. Rucks to be Hudson and Everitt. Everitt to run with Brennan.

Might just work Bornadog - I love the way you guys think :cool: Everitt, even though he has only shown glimpses of what he may bring to the side, is obviously more mobile than Wilbur, (but gives away body strength at this stage) and Wilbur is a good strong body/target up forward. Even if he doesn't mark everything, he is crashing the packs, so that Missy, Johnno and Murph can rove the packs and kick lots of goals!

[bornadog]

Might just work Bornadog - I love the way you guys think :cool: Everitt, even though he has only shown glimpses of what he may bring to the side, is obviously more mobile than Wilbur, (but gives away body strength at this stage) and Wilbur is a good strong body/target up forward. Even if he doesn't mark everything, he is crashing the packs, so that Missy, Johnno and Murph can rove the packs and kick lots of goals!

Exactly my thoughts.;)

[LostDoggy]

Who takes Minson's man when he runs off him?
It would be a great decision if he marked his fair share of the ball and kicked accurately. Not sure thats the case.

[LostDoggy]

No Change.

[The Coon Dog]

No Change.

I'm inclined to agree, unless there's an obvious improvement. Just can't see one.

[chef]

In Callan Out Picken

Callan will be needed this week to go third man up and to fill the hole in front of Brown and Bradshaw. He is not scared to put his body on the line with his kamikaze spoiling.

[Ozza]

In Callan Out Picken

Callan will be needed this week to go third man up and to fill the hole in front of Brown and Bradshaw. He is not scared to put his body on the line with his kamikaze spoiling.

Picken is certainly not scared to put his body on the line. he is every bit as hard a player as Callan - if not more. Picko has had a great year - has done some huge jobs and has improved every week in terms of decision making. He can also find a goal or two occasionally.

I can't see any benefit in making the change.

[neodog]

Callan BOG for willi this week. Certainly has more mongrel about him then some of the other current bulldogs player.

[chef]

Picken is certainly not scared to put his body on the line. he is every bit as hard a player as Callan - if not more. Picko has had a great year - has done some huge jobs and has improved every week in terms of decision making. He can also find a goal or two occasionally.

I can't see any benefit in making the change.

I am not saying Picken is scared and you missed my point.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Even though Everitt didn't play well by all reports, I wouldn't mind seeing him play instead of Gia. I really don't think they can justify his spot in the side, he could barely run towards a ball let alone escape his opponent or apply any sort of defensive pressure. When Gia lacks fitness, he's slow and is borderline soft. His injury has obviously set him back a very long way and so for mine, he has to miss.

Bad luck for Reid (again). Needs to fix his groin issues over the summer.

Hill should be given a little more freedom up the field, playing off a wing. I don't think we handle him very well at all. Seems to stay stuck in the forward line where his impact is always going to be limited with such a light frame. The only way he'll mark a ball is if he's able to run and jump from the side. Any physical pressure and he's not going to be able to even contest. I'd give him rests up forward, but would be urging him to use his VO2 to advantage by running the wings and pushing forward hard. He'd offer us a lot more this way.

With Everitt in the side, we can probably afford to do this too.

[Sedat]

In Callan Out Picken

Callan will be needed this week to go third man up and to fill the hole in front of Brown and Bradshaw. He is not scared to put his body on the line with his kamikaze spoiling.
Don't mind the 'in' but dropping the wrong player IMO - take your pick out of Gia, Hahn or Welsh instead. Picken is a hard nut that has decent leg speed, a massive tank, great concentration, and goes in fanatically for the hard ball - he is very well suited to finals football.

[Sedat]

On what I witnessed yesterday at Willi Reid would have been a liability on Saturday. His groin problems meant that he couldn't run and he needs a spell.
Sad news and a most inopportune time for Reid to be affected by such an injury. If he is at or near 100% he simply has to come back into the team to help out our midfield rotations and also provide an additional tagging option at our disposal - he kept Bartel well in check 2 weeks ago, and Bartel was let off the leash on Saturday and was a pivotal player, especially in their forward 50.

[Cyberdoggie]

Gia shouldn't play. He was horrible. Slow, un-accountable and passive in the contests. He gave us nothing and it was possibly his worst game for the club on the back of two ordinary performances. Reid has been very good - form must be rewarded.

In: Reid
Out: Gia

If Everitt plays well tomorrow they might think about him too. This group of players need a little tinkering because they've fallen over in Finals one too many times. Be it fitness or a lack of, we can't play all of Gia/Griff/Murph. One of them has to make way for Reid.

I agree it was a big mistake dropping Reid as his hardness at the contest evens out the softness of many of the other players in the side.

Gia should be dropped but there is no way both he and Eagle would be dropped. Eade never reacts to a loss and he has only dropped Eagle once in his time at the bulldogs (from memory). Gia is the "future captain" and assist king of the side, despite his lack of pressure and speed, i can't seem them dropping him for a final.

I agree with Mantis that Picken needs to be given more of a role other than just being a tagger. I think he has earned the opportunity, but i can't see it happening until the new season. I don't know what the idea of of playing on Byrnes was all about either.

[chef]

Don't mind the 'in' but dropping the wrong player IMO - take your pick out of Gia, Hahn or Welsh instead. Picken is a hard nut that has decent leg speed, a massive tank, great concentration, and goes in fanatically for the hard ball - he is very well suited to finals football.

I just couldn't see Eade dropping an experienced player.

[bulldogtragic]

If we need another tall defender, which I think we do, and Williams isn't fit then what happens?

No Williams, Wight is shot and Everitt cannot play on Bradshaw... and Callan doesn't have the height either.

That to me leaves Tiller and Bou. Bou has had the fitness and form over Stevey T.

Could Bou get the nod for team balance?

[azabob]

Comrade; Is it time? Time for Bouman to come in and be the 3rd tall defender?:D

Seriously would Bouman would be a better option than Williams when he's fit?


If we need another tall defender, which I think we do, and Williams isn't fit then what happens?

No Williams, Wight is shot and Everitt cannot play on Bradshaw... and Callan doesn't have the height either.

That to me leaves Tiller and Bou. Bou has had the fitness and form over Stevey T.

Could Bou get the nod for team balance?

I semi floated this idea yesterday, as I think Williams is very rusty for the first few games after returning from injury.

[Mofra]

Could Bou get the nod for team balance?
Massive call for a kid with 8-10 senior VFL games under his belt to debut in a do or die final. I really like the kid but not sure he's ready yet.

[BulldogBelle]

Out
Hill


In
Everitt


Everitt showed a hell of lot more intensity against the Pies than Hill has shown all month
Everitt is flexible enough to play in the backline if needed
Everitt will take either the number 1 of number 2 defender with his height, ths freeing up Welsh, Johno and Hahn
Hill's decision making is suspect at present
Hill's presure isnt enough, he isnt holding down his tackles


I like Callan, but I think Picken is more versatile, would prefer to keep Picken in the side

[aker39]

A half fit Gia won't. He has to be dropped, no ifs, buts, maybes.

On what I saw yesterday I would be happy for Stack to play this week in place of Gia.


Based on this quote from todays Herald Sun, Gia's will be playing this week

Eade defended forward Daniel Giansiracusa, who was brilliant in his return from a knee injury in Round 21, but has been quiet in the past fortnight.

"With Gia, 50 per cent of his ball use resulted in a goal. That's a very high percentage,' Eade said.

"He just needs to get a bit more of it. It might be a case of getting used to the speed of the game again after some time out. He is a quality player so we have no doubt that he will be able to play well for us."

[Ozza]

Very happy with Eade's comments above. When Gia gets the ball - we are a chance of getting a goal. Thats always been the case, and you need players with his smarts in the side always.

[Mantis]

Based on this quote from todays Herald Sun, Gia's will be playing this week

Eade defended forward Daniel Giansiracusa, who was brilliant in his return from a knee injury in Round 21, but has been quiet in the past fortnight.

"With Gia, 50 per cent of his ball use resulted in a goal. That's a very high percentage,' Eade said.

"He just needs to get a bit more of it. It might be a case of getting used to the speed of the game again after some time out. He is a quality player so we have no doubt that he will be able to play well for us."

That all reads well and is correct, but 14 touches isn't enough from Gia. He has to get 20-25 to become a real factor.

My other concern is when he hasn't got the ball - his defensive pressure is/ was non-existent, but he wasn't alone.

[LostDoggy]

Why is everybody want to sack proven players for
Stack... one good game then all at sea the next... and you want to put him in a final
Everitt... one good game after being bagged on this forum all year
Tiller... playing at willy for obvious reasons... not good enough yet
Tip of the week Gia Griff and Hill to play blinders this week

[Mantis]

Why is everybody want to sack proven players for
Stack... one good game then all at sea the next... and you want to put him in a final
Everitt... one good game after being bagged on this forum all year
Tiller... playing at willy for obvious reasons... not good enough yet
Tip of the week Gia Griff and Hill to play blinders this week

Personally I ain't all that interested in how they (and several others) go this week. I was more interested in how they went last week and how they go against St.Kilda when we get there.

We are a top 4 side and I want our players to play well agaisnt other top 4 teams and not against teams we are clearly better than.

[Desipura]

Personally I ain't all that interested in how they (and several others) go this week. I was more interested in how they went last week and how they go against St.Kilda when we get there.

We are a top 4 side and I want our players to play well agaisnt other top 4 teams and not against teams we are clearly better than.
Mantis, Mantis, Mantis we are on the same page, everything you have said I feel the same way.

[Sedat]

Our forward 6 consists of a collective of the following players - Hill, Higgins, Johnson, Aker, Hahn, Welsh, Murphy, Minson. How many of these players have a genuine appetite for defensive oriented acts? Sure the ball doesn't always get delivered lace out but is it any great surprise that our forward 50 was like a trampoline on Saturday? Do we have the forward line mix all wrong - you need your McQualter's and Varcoe's down there to make the rebounders nervous about running and carrying. Do you think Scarlet, Mackie, Enright, Kelly and Taylor were nervous rebounding with minimal pressure from behind? How many tackles and chase-downs did we successfully implement in our forward 50 on Saturday?

Why do one-paced forwards, who are not providing any offensive drive and are not providing any defensive pressure, continue to get selected. Gia has had an extended injury lay-off and wasn't able to load up on the training so has some excuse (mind you we are in sudden-death and cannot carry anyone in the team). But Hahn and Welsh? What have they provided this season that the likes of Reid, Wood, Stack, Everitt, Callan, Tiller could not provide if selected in their place? Why are we so reluctant to drop any senior players for poor form, even when they have contributed virtually nothing in recent weeks, and virtually nothing in finals? Callan and Tiller have shown that they are prepared to die out there on the field of battle for the club, and they have done this on the biggest stage and in the highest pressure environment. They might not have the polish but they are as commited to the contest as anyone in our playing group. What the hell do we have to lose by dropping Hahn and Welsh?

[comrade]

What the hell do we have to lose by dropping Hahn and Welsh?

Nothing.

Great post.

[Ozza]

^^^
I'm not a huge Welsh fan - but I thought he was ok on the weekend. Watching the game a second time - he actually did some really good things and I believe he had the most contested footy for us, and his kicking efficiency was teh highest. I'm not saying he starred, and stats aren't everything - but he was far from the worst - and was one of the guys who went ok in the first quarter when we were getting smashed.

Hahn on the other hand....picked up where he left off in last years finals.

[Mofra]

Callan and Tiller have shown that they are prepared to die out there on the field of battle for the club, and they have done this on the biggest stage and in the highest pressure environment.
+1

Couldn't agree more. Players without polish need to be pricks.
Tiller is hard at it and genuinely likes hurting his opponent, but Tim Callan has the bastard gene in spades.

A couple of months back I wandered out onto the oval at Willy to hear the 3 qtr time address. I saw Reid walking in, spent, with "Tenacity" written on his arm which I was impressed with.
Then Tim Callan walked in with Everitt. He wasn't talking tactics, match ups, kicks or anything else. He was relaying a story how that quarter he'd belted a bloke, then held him down and ground his face in the mud. Say what you want about unsociable football; it wins games.

[Ozza]

If the theme is intensity and getting a bit of grit in the side - its probably worth highlighting the comparison in tackles between the players said to have a good game - and those that have been suggested could be dropped:

Group 1 ---Group 2
Gilbee --- Minson
Boyd --- Welsh
Cross --- Hill
Eagle ---Picken
Aker --- Gia
Higgins --- Hahn

Gr 1 - 6 tackles(total) ---Gr 2 - 23 tackles.

[Sedat]

Then Tim Callan walked in with Everitt. He wasn't talking tactics, match ups, kicks or anything else. He was relaying a story how that quarter he'd belted a bloke, then held him down and ground his face in the mud. Say what you want about unsociable football; it wins games.
St Kilda isn't blessed with 22 superstars by any stretch. But you can see that the likes of McQualter, Eddy, Dempster (when he's playing) just love to chase, tackle, hurt the opposition. Even their superstars have a thirst for pain and embrace physical confrontation with real intent and purpose - did you see Riewoldt's bone-crunching tackle in the 3rd qtr on Sunday? What about Kosi and Goddard towelling up Thomas and Shaw respectively without any regard for potential tribunal recriminations? Gotta say it was thrilling stuff to watch, and it lifts teammates to raise the bar when it's their turn.

I can see some real hard-arse gems coming through the system - Ward, Picken, Reid - these guys will crawl through broken glass just to gain a metre. But it really isn't up to them to take the lead here - I'm rapt that they are but the senior players simply have to lead from the front here. Boyd and Cross are undisputedly courageous players - why they revert to passive, reactive, safe football come September is a mystery to me. How inspirational would it be to see Minson crunch the air out of an opponent in a contested situation, and then get up and ready himself for another physical confrontation?

[LostDoggy]

Out: Hahn

In "Mr September" Everitt

[Topdog]

If the theme is intensity and getting a bit of grit in the side - its probably worth highlighting the comparison in tackles between the players said to have a good game - and those that have been suggested could be dropped:

Group 1 ---Group 2
Gilbee --- Minson
Boyd --- Welsh
Cross --- Hill
Eagle ---Picken
Aker --- Gia
Higgins --- Hahn

Gr 1 - 6 tackles(total) ---Gr 2 - 23 tackles.

Wow that is disgraceful for a group that contains 2 in and under midfielders and a defender.

[yeah_sampson]

I figure we only make a change to either facilitate Williams return, or if somebody is injured.

Why do we keep trying to facilitate Williams in the side. He is quick, that's It! It's a little harsh but every time I see him lining up in the side I think "why"!

Very similar to when we used to pick stephen tiller, they are great Players indeed, Great for he VFL, and thats it!!

[soupman]

Why do we keep trying to facilitate Williams in the side. He is quick, that's It! It's a little harsh but every time I see him lining up in the side I think "why"!

Very similar to when we used to pick stephen tiller, they are great Players indeed, Great for he VFL, and thats it!!

Because like it or not they improve the strucure of our side. Williams coming in means that we have another option for the Browns and Bradshaws, but particularly for the Koschitzke's and Riewoldts. Otherwise we are left playing either Morris or Hargrave on someone too big for them, which makes them less effective. If Williams played last Saturday he could have taken Mooney, Morris could have taken Chapman and Hargrave could have taken someone else. Williams isn't that bad once he gets going, it's usually just his first week back that he struggles in. I want that week to be against Brisbane, otherwise he may not be useful in the finals.

[bornadog]

Why do we keep trying to facilitate Williams in the side. He is quick, that's It! It's a little harsh but every time I see him lining up in the side I think "why"!

Very similar to when we used to pick stephen tiller, they are great Players indeed, Great for he VFL, and thats it!!

Perhaps we pick Williams because he has height, (196cm) and athletic ability and we don't have any one else for CHB. Before you say Morris, let me remind you he is only 190cm and has to play on gorilla forwards, which is a mismatch. Also we can use Morris on different type of players making him more effective.

[LostDoggy]

+1


Then Tim Callan walked in with Everitt. He wasn't talking tactics, match ups, kicks or anything else. He was relaying a story how that quarter he'd belted a bloke, then held him down and ground his face in the mud.

I'm in love! Nah but seriously, awesome. I really want to see him getting games, it's just too bad the spot he's playing for is so competitive.

[Rocket Science]

While conceding the Lions and Cats are two completely different kettles of fish...should Callan come in, and in light of the lack of 'frontal' pressure applied by our forwards last week AND Harbrow having his ass all but handed to him by Stokes, one wonders if it may culminate in Jarrod finding himself back in the forward-mix at some stage Friday night.

[anfo27]

If the theme is intensity and getting a bit of grit in the side - its probably worth highlighting the comparison in tackles between the players said to have a good game - and those that have been suggested could be dropped:

Group 1 ---Group 2
Gilbee --- Minson
Boyd --- Welsh
Cross --- Hill
Eagle ---Picken
Aker --- Gia
Higgins --- Hahn

Gr 1 - 6 tackles(total) ---Gr 2 - 23 tackles.

Great stat Ozza & that is one of the main reasons we didn't win that game. The crows smacked Essendon but at least the Bombers came out in that 1st quarter & tackled with purpose & intensity. Just can't understand after hearing that national anthem why they wouldn't fire up, after the anthem i wanted to get down there a shirt front someone myself.

[The Pie Man]

While conceding the Lions and Cats are two completely different kettles of fish...should Callan come in, and in light of the lack of 'frontal' pressure applied by our forwards last week AND Harbrow having his ass all but handed to him by Stokes, one wonders if it may culminate in Jarrod finding himself back in the forward-mix at some stage Friday night.

I imagine they'll want Jarrod to find the pill a bit more than he did last Saturday (think it was 12)

In saying that, attacking back pockets can't be getting 30 touches every week - he's had a great year and will be a great player for us.

[Topdog]

Correct it was Knights

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,,22577840-19742,00.html

[LostDoggy]

I was at training on Tuesday and noticed that Williams was with the main group and seemed to train well and complete and compete in most, if not all tasks. Given the selection panels obvious love of the "Tommy Gun" could he be the smoky for a late change?

In: Williams
Out: Hill

Perhaps.............Who knows??????

[Happy Days]

I was at training on Tuesday and noticed that Williams was with the main group and seemed to train well and complete and compete in most, if not all tasks. Given the selection panels obvious love of the "Tommy Gun" could he be the smoky for a late change?

In: Williams
Out: Hill

Perhaps.............Who knows??????

In The Age today it was mentioned that Williams will play at Williamstown.

For mine, I think we bring in Timmy Callan. This will not only allow for Shaggy to take the taller resting ruckman (which will usually be Brennan, who Shaggy is more than capable of shuutting down) and not force him to go to Hooper, which could be a potential mismatch at ground level, but will also, as previously mentioned by another poster, give us security on Brown and Bradshaw by having Timmy drop in front of the packs, as he as shown he can time and time again.

As per who to drop, provided that Murphy gets up this week, I would go with Hill. He has had a great year, but he has tapered off on the back 9, and doesn't offer us as much as a forward that Timmy does as a backman.

[hotdog]

In The Age today it was mentioned that Williams will play at Williamstown.

For mine, I think we bring in Timmy Callan. This will not only allow for Shaggy to take the taller resting ruckman (which will usually be Brennan, who Shaggy is more than capable of shuutting down) and not force him to go to Hooper, which could be a potential mismatch at ground level, but will also, as previously mentioned by another poster, give us security on Brown and Bradshaw by having Timmy drop in front of the packs, as he as shown he can time and time again.

As per who to drop, provided that Murphy gets up this week, I would go with Hill. He has had a great year, but he has tapered off on the back 9, and doesn't offer us as much as a forward that Timmy does as a backman.

Spot on the money Happy Days!

WESTERN BULLDOGS v BRISBANE LIONS
Western Bulldogs
B: Jarrod Harbrow, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
HB: Liam Picken, Dale Morris, Lindsay Gilbee
C: Shaun Higgins, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Cross
HF: Brad Johnson, Mitch Hahn, Robert Murphy
F: Jason Akermanis, Will Minson, Scott Welsh
Foll: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Ryan Griffen
I/C: Tim Callan, Nathan Eagleton, Daniel Giansiracusa, Callan Ward
Emg: Dylan Addison, Andrejs Everitt, Josh Hill
In: Callan
Out: Josh Hill

Brisbane Lions
B: Ashley McGrath, Daniel Merrett, James Hawksley
HB: Joel Patfull, Josh Drummond, Jed Adcock
C: Jared Brennan, Simon Black, Daniel Rich
HF: Michael Rischitelli, Jonathan Brown, James Polkinghorne
F: Sam Sheldon, Daniel Bradshaw, Tim Notting
Foll: Mitch Clark, Luke Power, Justin Sherman
I/C: Rhan Hooper, Matt Austin, Travis Johnstone, Jack Redden
Emg: Bradd Dalziell, Joel Macdonald, Cheynee Stiller

In: Drummond, Adcock, Notting
Out: Jason Roe, Cheynee Stiller, Scott Harding (foot)