Ryan Griffen vs Lance Franklin...its not over

[dog town]

I know this topic has been done to death over previous years but after seeing a glimpse of what Ryan Griffen could be capable of on friday night I thought it warranted some revisiting. For the first time in a long time I can see it being a possibility that we made the right choice in choosing Griffen before Franklin.

I realise this may sound quite laughable to suggest given we have just lost a preliminary final that most attribute to our lack of a key forward. I do not think he is even close to becoming more valuable than Franklin at this stage but for the first time since probably his first year I found myself imagining him becoming the games best player. He is already a considerably good player but its the room for improvement that has me wondering just how good he could be.

I think it is important to note that I have been one of Griffen's biggest critics. I have never thought he works hard enough when he does not have the ball and I consider him to be an overrated user of the ball. He has the potential to kick the ball with amazing depth and touch which is a rare combination but his kicking can be so inconsistent. He kicks around corners, drops the ball lazily and with bad positioning. Fortunately for him all of those problems can be coached out of him IMO. Even if he improves these areas slightly then he has the potential to be one of the most influential players in the comp. Chris Judd is not a great kick but he can extract the ball from tight quarters and explode away into space and that is exactly what Griffen can do. It may not even need to be coached out of him. He simply just needs to realise that his job is not done simply by getting out of traffic with the ball. He works really hard when the ball is in his area and is close to the best ball carryer in the game. He has enormous room for improvement and thats why it is to early to say Franklin was categorically the best choice.

On friday night (are we allowed to discuss it yet?) Griffen had 13 contested possessions and got into space from some unbelievable positions. He had 5 saints players hanging off him at one stage and still got it out. He was easily our most influential player and this is despite wasting 4 or 5 chances that could have got us crucial goals. If he uses these touches the way we know he can we are playing in a grand final thanks largely to him. As far as pure talent goes I doubt there are many who can match him in the league. With a more consistent work rate and a bit of a polish up of some of his footy attributes I can honestly see him becoming one of the most valuable players in the league. It doesn't mean he will get to that level I am just encouraged by the fact I can actually see him starting to use some of his immense talent.

If Griffen does kick on from fridays unbelievable game it makes us a pretty frightening proposition going forward. Who do you tag if Cooney is playing like he did in the last few weeks of the season? I also allows us to make Boyd into more of a Cameron Ling type.

Gary Ablett was probably at a similar level to Griffen before the 2007 season. The cats players asked him to push himself harder and become one of the best players in the competition. He was a good player but he didn't have the work rate or confidence to take the next step. I really hope Griffen does something similar next season.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with much of what you have said.

The biggest issue for Griffen has always been his lack of tank. He is improving but it is difficult to improve this area in the short term.

His kicking can be ordinary when on the run simply because he fails to take one or two steps to steady and kicks when off balance. That can be rectified quite quickly

I have always seen Griffen having the potential to be on Cooney's level.

I am still of that view

[Mantis]

Very good call dt.

What impressed me the most the on Friday night was his ability to extricate himself out of tight situations and his ability to continue to break free when other players where dead on their feet.

His kicking needs some work, which personally I think has more to do with a lack of concentration rather than a technique issue. It seems that roosting the ball comes pretty naturally to Griff, but he just doesn't seem to take that little bit of time to steady himself as he believes that his natural talent will allow him to kick off balance/ around corners. His kick to Johnson in the last qtr was a beauty and the type of kick I wish to see much more often over the coming years.

He will be challenged by his peers over the coming pre-season to take his game to the next level. If he does it will take us one step closer to achieveing the ultimate glory, which we all know isn't that far away.

[Sedat]

According to the brain surgeons in the media and on other football forums, he's lucky to be breaking even with Tambling :rolleyes:

He is an elite footballer who has continued to improve season on season. He has now had 5 sensational finals matches out of 8 played. He has added contested ball-winning ability to his repertoire in 2009, and all he hneeds now is to add the endurance to run harder for longer and we have a bonafide AFL superstar on our hands.

[bulldogtragic]

He really responded to the blow torch this finals series. I hope the leaders put it on him again to keep this form going. We all know he has 'it', now it's just getting it out of him consistently. Good positive thread.

[LostDoggy]

I saw something about Griffen on Friday night that i have been waiting (and begging) to see - it was in the last few minutes, he was on the bench waiting to get on, he looked like a bull at a gate, he couldnt wait to get back on, signalling for the guy he was replacing to get off. When he did get on, he attacked the ball and had a crack - gave it everything he had. If we see him do this consistently, we will be such a better side.

I have always thought that he would be better than Cooney and Franklin - i hold onto that thought and hope. Next year will tell the tale.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

[The Underdog]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

Nah it's Everitt this week according to the papers, or Hahn, on the forum, if we can get something worthwhile for him. Keep up.

[LostDoggy]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

Not I - never

[comrade]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

I thought it was Cross? ;)

[Go_Dogs]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

Yep, gawn. Terrible season, never going to be a player, should have taken Buddy etc etc. No doubt it will be more of the same when he doesn't have 35 touches and 6 goals in Rd 1 2010. ;)

[bulldog]

I have always said i believe Griff could be the next Nathan Buckley

[dog town]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago? Must have missed that. He is at the age where he has to start being judged on performances though and I think his finals series proved that he had an extra gear in him.

[Topdog]

Weren't we trading Griffen a week ago?

I think every player on the list has either been trade bait or retirement certainty at some stage this season.

Personally he was never on the table and I thought it was super harsh to judge a guy coming off a 3 week injury straight into the finals. Was always going to be caught for pace.

[mighty_west]

Well, begs the question, who would have been of greater value v the Saints, and Griff did have a good game [apart from his kicking for goal], and Buddy is a tall forward & match winner that can kick goals out of his backside on a regular basis.

[anfo27]

Griff if he puts it all together is without doubt a superstar of the competition but IMO will never surpass Franklin. Just love the way he breaks multiple tackles with a shrug of the hips, rare quality. Just hope the rumours of him wanting to go home are hogwash.

[yeah_sampson]

Lets hope that he IS NOT the next Nathan Buckley! A weak old hack that says the most ridiculous statements in the media that never won a hard ball and Never won a Grand Final!!!

[BulldogBelle]

I think every player on the list has either been trade bait or retirement certainty at some stage this season.

Personally he was never on the table and I thought it was super harsh to judge a guy coming off a 3 week injury straight into the finals. Was always going to be caught for pace.


We wont be trading anyone who doesnt want to go I imagine

Hahn, Griff, Gia, Cross (all been floated as trade bait)....all want to stay with the group, and I would say that all of the players will have unfinished business after 08/09, that they will want to continue with their mates into 2010

Everitt, I'm not sure about, but yeah, he is trade flavour of the week

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Franklin is a once in a lifetime type player but Griffen has the ability to become the best midfielder in the competition, absolutely no doubt about it. That's why supporters get so frustrated with Griff when he doesn't play like he can. He's been judged harshly by the entire football community this year and he responded incredibly with two huge finals. The '06-'07' Ablett comparison is on the money too. Griff's improved his overall game this year (defensive/contested) and I hope he can build a bigger engine again to really stamp his ability on the AFL competition in 2010.

It hasn't been an easy year for him at all, either. The passing of his father clearly knocked him around quite a lot, and he's had to deal with a lot of expectation. He's still got plenty of room to improve and that's potentially very scary for 15 other clubs. Can you imagine Cooney (08' injury free form) and Griff at his absolute best supported by Boyd and Higgins? It'd be better than West Coast's midfield of 05-06.

It will be very interesting to see how Griff tackles the upcoming pre-season. Hopefully he'll come back fresher and hungrier after what's been a difficult year.

In relation to the thread, because of our needs, Franklin will always be the pick of the two though. The thing about Buddy is that he can push into the midfield and run rings around the opposition in there. I've never really seen a player like Buddy at all before, and he too has room to improve. His season was depicted as rather average but he still booted 67 goals on the back of a disgruntled pre-season. Franklin at his best - no defender will come close to stopping him. He's going to ensure Hawthorn will be difficult to beat for the next 7-10 years.

I hope Griff can take the next step, though. Having two potential Top 5 midfielders in the comp would be handy. ;)

[westbulldog]

I saw Ryan Griffin play his first game against the West Coast Eagles at Subiaco. My opinion was that he was a "potentially elite" player. That view hasn't changed and I think he is at the stage where he can become one of the competion's best on-ballers in 2010.

[azabob]

Lets hope that he IS NOT the next Nathan Buckley! A weak old hack that says the most ridiculous statements in the media that never won a hard ball and Never won a Grand Final!!!

The only thing ridiculous is your statement. Couldn't be further from the truth on both accounts.
Brad Johnson would give anything to be able to lead the Bulldogs into 2 grand finals, just like Buckley did for Collingwood.

[MrMahatma]

Needs to improve his kicking. Could've and should've won us the game on Friday.

[LostDoggy]

Franklin is a once in a lifetime type player


I would add 'potentially' to that statement. He's had one breakout season, but nothing else so far. Sure, he kicked a few goals this year, but no more than any of Fev, Brown et al., and 'once-in-a-lifetime' is a very lofty label.

He definitely has the talent to become that, but at this stage, he's not there yet, and with his well-documented off-field dramas and lack of discipline/application, there's no guarantee that he'll ever get there. If anything, a dramatic fall-from-grace seems as (or more) likely than any possibility of sustained brilliance.

'One-season-wonder' sits more comfortably on his shoulders for now.

[Topdog]

Disagree with the last statement. That kind of statement implies that he only had 1 good year. So far he has only had 1 fantastic year but 2 very very good years.

[azabob]

BUMP

I orginally went to look for a thread where people were certain Cooney would stay and Griffen would go to Gold Coast, but now since Harbrow has improved Griffen will stay and Harbrow will go.

BUT this thread could be much more fun.

Its fair to say most football watchers would have Griffen ahead of Franklin in 2010.

Is Franklin injured or lazy or getting beating due to the Hawks midfield performing poorly?

[Topdog]

BUMP

I orginally went to look for a thread where people were certain Cooney would stay and Griffen would go to Gold Coast, but now since Harbrow has improved Griffen will stay and Harbrow will go.

BUT this thread could be much more fun.

Its fair to say most football watchers would have Griffen ahead of Franklin in 2010.

Is Franklin injured or lazy or getting beating due to the Hawks midfield performing poorly?

Could be a combo of all 3. 1 thing is for sure he has lost a lot of pace and is trying to out muscle the defenders a lot more. He is losing when he does it to guys like Lake.

[KT31]

BUMP

I orginally went to look for a thread where people were certain Cooney would stay and Griffen would go to Gold Coast, but now since Harbrow has improved Griffen will stay and Harbrow will go.

BUT this thread could be much more fun.

Its fair to say most football watchers would have Griffen ahead of Franklin in 2010.

Is Franklin injured or lazy or getting beating due to the Hawks midfield performing poorly?

Could be some bad gear.;)

[Mofra]

Is Franklin injured or lazy or getting beating due to the Hawks midfield performing poorly?
I think his approach this year is all wrong.

He tore teams apart as a leading forward in 08. He's added weight and now seems content to try and wrestle one on one to mark. It's not his strength and against a player such as Lake, he'll be cut up.
If he played to his strengths (speed for his size) he'd be a force again, but until then he'll just be a "fairly good" tall forward.

[bornadog]

Griffen has really gone ahead of Franklin this year. I watched the last quarter of the Hawks v Tigers match and Franklin was beaten by a hack Tiger player (sorry can't remember his name). As Mofra has said, he seems to be playing a different type of game this year. Maybe the Hawk mids aren't delivering as they they were in 2008.

If Griffen continues with his current form, he could go close to winning the Brownlow.

[LostDoggy]

Griffen growing to be a top player. Franklin had his moment in the sun, now its time to step aside hehe

[Dancin' Douggy]

Griffen has really gone ahead of Franklin this year. I watched the last quarter of the Hawks v Tigers match and Franklin was beaten by a hack Tiger player (sorry can't remember his name). As Mofra has said, he seems to be playing a different type of game this year. Maybe the Hawk mids aren't delivering as they they were in 2008.

If Griffen continues with his current form, he could go close to winning the Brownlow.

Are there any Tiger players who aren't hacks?
And yes I"m including about Deledio.
It's interesting that this thread is about the number 3 and number 5 picks from that draft.
The number 1 pick I don't think is even rated.

[chef]

Are there any Tiger players who aren't hacks?
And yes I"m including about Deledio.
It's interesting that this thread is about the number 3 and number 5 picks from that draft.
The number 1 pick I don't think is even rated.

I would love him to be wearing a Dogs jumper. Being an introvert doesn't help his cause in a weak team but in a team like ours he would be a star.

[GVGjr]

And yes I"m including about Deledio.
It's interesting that this thread is about the number 3 and number 5 picks from that draft.
The number 1 pick I don't think is even rated.

I watched a bit of Deledio last night and thought he was a good contributor. I think he's a very good player.

[EasternWest]

I watched a bit of Deledio last night and thought he was a good contributor. I think he's a very good player.

Agreed. Needs to impose himself more on games, but can play, no doubt.